| --- Log opened Wed Feb 02 00:00:10 2011 | ||
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| timschmidt | "This 'reload' thing is a specific part of GCC that happens towards the end of the (long) code generation process. By the time GCC gets to this stage, GCC has transformed the code into an arcane internal format called "non-strict RTL", which looks a lot like machine code, except it doesn't respect the limitations of the target machine (such as the limited number of registers). Imagine you're cooking and one of the steps of | 01:05 |
|---|---|---|
| timschmidt | your recipe says, "Now melt the butter using your 23rd oven". That's what non-strict RTL is like, it's not very helpful. So the 'reload' module needs to turn that into "strict RTL" by allocating registers and obeying some rules and generally being clever. Once it's "strict RTL", it will be just about ready to actually run on the target CPU. Following the kitchen example, the strict RTL instructions wouldn't refer to a 23r | 01:05 |
| timschmidt | d oven because it knows you don't have one, it'll instead give you instructions that you can follow with only one oven." | 01:05 |
| timschmidt | from a discussion of gcc | 01:05 |
| timschmidt | I thought the idea might map well to skdb | 01:06 |
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| superkuh | What was the URL of the russian 300k book site again? freebooks.dontexist.org or something of the like... | 01:58 |
| Utopiah | free-books.dontexist.com | 02:04 |
| superkuh | Thank you. | 02:05 |
| Utopiah | np | 02:07 |
| fenn | yeah we ran into that issue thinking about how to deal with multiple agents | 03:30 |
| fenn | i'm sure there's some simple planning theory out there that tells me how to make a planning system, but i don't know what to look for | 03:31 |
| kanzure | electricity out again | 04:32 |
| kanzure | can someone check why? it drops a few degrees and texas stops working geeze | 04:52 |
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| Lukas__ | Class is canceled! :D | 05:50 |
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| Utopiah | kanzure: I think you started doing that a bit through your logs, shared interests in your social network http://www.gravity.com/labs/twinterest | 07:34 |
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| delinquentme | omgggg SO EXCITEDMENT | 08:14 |
| delinquentme | more electronics on the wayyyy! | 08:14 |
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| archels | delinquentme: namely? | 08:22 |
| delinquentme | ardy ethernet shield | 08:25 |
| delinquentme | AND! | 08:25 |
| delinquentme | four quadruple half H drivers :D | 08:26 |
| delinquentme | http://www.sparkfun.com/products/315 | 08:26 |
| delinquentme | BLAM! | 08:26 |
| * delinquentme pretty excited | 08:26 | |
| delinquentme | OOPS! | 08:26 |
| * delinquentme runs to little girls room | 08:26 | |
| delinquentme | does you know things aboot SN754410s archels ? | 08:28 |
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| fenn | they're good for pager motors and that's about it | 08:44 |
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| fenn | or those cheap dc motors that are in all the chinese products | 08:45 |
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| ThomasEgi | motors? did i miss something? | 08:46 |
| fenn | don't believe the 1A rating | 08:46 |
| fenn | ThomasEgi: yes | 08:46 |
| fenn | "With the SN754410, you must use external flyback diodes" | 08:47 |
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| fenn | oh one other thing, you can stack them vertically for more power | 08:49 |
| fenn | also $2.35 is like way too much | 08:50 |
| ThomasEgi | fenn, what's it about, motor-control aside.? | 08:50 |
| fenn | oh, i dunno, delinquentme is getting some stuff from sparkfun | 08:52 |
| fenn | i just read the gingery 'how to make an injection molding machine' and now i cant stop thinking about all the little boxes i could make | 08:55 |
| fenn | "Babbage has, on occasion, expressed misgivings about the various interpenetrations of silicon and flesh. Why risk ‘cyborging’ oneself, when a wearable Analytical Engine can upgrade natural faculties through a removable carapace of information technology?" | 08:59 |
| fenn | i didnt even know blogs existed in 1998 | 09:01 |
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| delinquentme | fenn, yeah i've heard about the stacking | 09:09 |
| delinquentme | but what would you use to drive a bipolar ? | 09:09 |
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| fenn | how big? what application? | 09:12 |
| fenn | the sn754410 will probably work ok for whatever you're doing, assuming you are full or half stepping and don't mind losing steps to resonance every once in a while | 09:14 |
| fenn | this blog from 1998 sounds just like hplusmagazine :( | 09:16 |
| fenn | actually it's better | 09:18 |
| delinquentme | fenn, im thinking either way i need a position feedback mechanism .. unless you know of a driver that i wouldnt have to worry about something like that .. additionalyl i dont need CRAZY torque .. like i think 1A worth would be plenty | 09:28 |
| fenn | why do you need position feedback with steppers? | 09:31 |
| delinquentme | because i do :D | 09:31 |
| delinquentme | but thats another issue to work out later .. probs gonna be IR sensors | 09:32 |
| delinquentme | and honestly .. who uses steppers and doesnt give a shit where they land? | 09:32 |
| fenn | well, there's not point in using steppers if you have position feedback.. that's all | 09:42 |
| fenn | sure, you can think of them as high pole count AC servo motors, but they're not, not really | 09:43 |
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| kanzure | fenn: there's some jerks claiming their 1994 sites were blogs too | 09:48 |
| kanzure | fenn: maybe delinquentme doesn't know what a servo is | 09:48 |
| delinquentme | dont servos go out of whack as well? | 09:49 |
| delinquentme | so regardless im gonna need feedback right? | 09:49 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ^ | 09:50 |
| kanzure | i thought this was the definition of a servo | 09:52 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomechanism | 09:52 |
| delinquentme | srsly i dont think anyone knows wtf they actually do | 09:55 |
| delinquentme | that or i just read crappy blogs | 09:55 |
| delinquentme | MEH! well kanzure thanks for the link | 09:58 |
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| kanzure | hi ENKI-][ | 10:05 |
| ENKI-][ | hi | 10:05 |
| ENKI-][ | i was reminded of this place because i ran into biohack.me and they were arguing politics | 10:06 |
| ENKI-][ | how are things? | 10:06 |
| kanzure | haha biohack.me thinks i'm the owner of diybio.org? | 10:07 |
| ENKI-][ | something like that | 10:08 |
| ENKI-][ | the shift from annoying to purely amusing happened when somebody said H+ was distasteful because they were a bunch of anarchists :P | 10:08 |
| kanzure | "although I agree with him on a large number of fronts, he has too close ties with the frankly absolutely contemptible Humanity+ (ex-WTA/Extropy) community." | 10:09 |
| kanzure | i should have believed you when you said they were arguing politics | 10:12 |
| kanzure | that was a waste of time :P | 10:12 |
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| ENKI-][ | *shrug* | 10:12 |
| ENKI-][ | for a grinder community they don't appear to be doing much grinding... or much of anything else | 10:13 |
| ENKI-][ | not that i can talk. grinders at least cut themselves open. | 10:13 |
| fenn | yeah, real productive | 10:15 |
| fenn | "at least i gash my fucking arm open! what have you done!" | 10:15 |
| kanzure | DRAMA | 10:16 |
| kanzure | "i made yet another forum" | 10:17 |
| ENKI-][ | well, that's the thing, right | 10:17 |
| ENKI-][ | the grinder argument is "other transhumanists are all theory, and they aren't doing anything until the tech magically arrives to do things worth doing" | 10:18 |
| kanzure | that's total bullshit | 10:18 |
| ENKI-][ | the upside is that we have a better chance of surviving long enough to see truly reliable implants | 10:18 |
| kanzure | there are a lot of transhumanists like that, but who cares about them | 10:19 |
| kanzure | just focus on the people working on projects | 10:19 |
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| ENKI-][ | there's certainly a continuum of circumspection | 10:19 |
| drazak | fenn: what are you measuring that's going to be 1000°C? | 10:20 |
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| ENKI-][ | but, being aware of the one side makes me aware that i'm very much on the other side. i haven't even built an EEG system yet, for instance. my augmentations go only so far as prototype wearables with COTS HMDs and crappy homebrew keyboards | 10:21 |
| fenn | gah why are you asking me in this channel drazak | 10:21 |
| drazak | fenn: because? | 10:21 |
| fenn | because.. uh, then other people with the same question will know the answer? | 10:21 |
| kanzure | ENKI-][: EEG isn't that useful | 10:22 |
| ENKI-][ | i know it isn't | 10:22 |
| ENKI-][ | that doesn't mean that it's not useful at all, though. and, it's within the range of possibilities for a hobbyist like me with no source of income and poor soldering skills | 10:23 |
| ENKI-][ | my wearables aren't terribly useful either | 10:23 |
| ENKI-][ | and my telepresence bot only works in IR range | 10:23 |
| kanzure | instead of EEG how about something more useful like wearable computing | 10:24 |
| kanzure | or 3d print yourself a better keyboard | 10:24 |
| ENKI-][ | for that i would need to buy a 3d printer | 10:24 |
| ENKI-][ | even the cheapest repstrap costs more than grabbing the populated boards from the openeeg folks | 10:25 |
| kanzure | how much do the openeeg boards cost anyway? | 10:25 |
| ENKI-][ | $250 or something altogether | 10:25 |
| kanzure | yeah so $300 or $400 for a reprap | 10:25 |
| ENKI-][ | i get both and there goes my life savings | 10:25 |
| kanzure | what? maybe you should work on that | 10:26 |
| fenn | expecting a reprap to work as expected is not a good plan | 10:26 |
| kanzure | that's true | 10:26 |
| fenn | also i'm amazed the openeeg stuff costs so much | 10:26 |
| kanzure | i don't think EEG is a good idea, ENKI-][ | 10:27 |
| fenn | rain said the parts alone were ~$100 | 10:27 |
| ENKI-][ | well, it's what? four boards, specially etched by a third party in small quantities | 10:27 |
| fenn | but it's basically an arduino and some resistors, afaict | 10:27 |
| kanzure | pick something else: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/diytranshuman_projects.v3.txt | 10:27 |
| ENKI-][ | i think there was a reason why they decided not to use an arduino for that, but i can't remember what it was | 10:28 |
| ENKI-][ | they were very nervous about noise | 10:28 |
| kanzure | what is it with this obsession with poorly thought out transhumanist projects | 10:28 |
| ENKI-][ | anyway, that's not the point really | 10:28 |
| fenn | btw did you know you can get reasonably cheap modafinil from india? | 10:28 |
| kanzure | "well, we can either cut ourselves or slave to EEG" | 10:28 |
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| kanzure | it's definitely something, but there's a lot of interesting projects that nobody is bothering with | 10:29 |
| kanzure | and i can't figure out why? | 10:29 |
| ENKI-][ | my point is that knowing that people actually go through with poorly thought out transhumanist projects makes me aware of precisely how well-thought-out a project would need to be for me to even consider investing in it | 10:29 |
| fenn | kanzure: all the non-poorly thought out projects are subject to (self imposed) disclosure restrictions as a result of their financing model | 10:30 |
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| ENKI-][ | EEG is a known quantity, fairly cheap, fairly safe, and is now even being commercialized. i've known about the mechanisms behind it for years. it still doesn't make the cut for me. | 10:30 |
| kanzure | i should put up the myostatin project on kickstarter | 10:30 |
| fenn | what is "the myostatin project" exactly? | 10:31 |
| kanzure | something like "demonstrate the expression of a myostatin inhibitor in a cell culture or plant" | 10:31 |
| ENKI-][ | loading up on piracetam and playing with subliminals, on the other hand, does make the cut | 10:31 |
| fenn | "dear kickstarter, help me cause grievous health problems to an unwitting volunteer, kthx" | 10:31 |
| kanzure | unwitting volunteer == ecoli? :) | 10:31 |
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| fenn | what you just said doesn't make any sense | 10:32 |
| ENKI-][ | fenn: i think that would get a lot of donations. you should propose that on kickstarter. | 10:32 |
| fenn | first of all, plants and cell cultures aren't muscles | 10:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: there's peptide-based and other protein-based myostatin inhibitors | 10:32 |
| ENKI-][ | hm | 10:32 |
| ENKI-][ | you could always try growing meat on a rack | 10:32 |
| fenn | oh you just want to express the gene | 10:32 |
| kanzure | you can try to do in vitro protein/transcription but it's not always a good idea | 10:32 |
| kanzure | so if i set the mark high enough for the project, i could probably also fund a few other diybio projects that need to happen | 10:33 |
| fenn | i'm pretty sure that's a done deal, i mean it's been purified/crystallized right? | 10:33 |
| kanzure | like an open source hardware version of an hplc machine | 10:33 |
| kanzure | there's one company that was trying to commercialize something.. but it stopped halfway through clinical trials? | 10:33 |
| fenn | o rly | 10:34 |
| kanzure | "As of 2009[update], no myostatin-inhibiting drugs for humans are on the market, but an antibody genetically engineered to neutralize myostatin was developed by New Jersey pharmaceutical company Wyeth.[22] The inhibitor is called MYO-029, but, after an initial clinical trial, Wyeth says they will not be developing the drug.[23] Some athletes, eager to get their hands on such drugs, turn to the internet, where fake "myostatin blockers" are being sol | 10:34 |
| fenn | heh http://www.mybodybuildingcoupons.com/myo-t12-myostatin-inhibitor-on-sale-now/ | 10:34 |
| kanzure | might be fake | 10:35 |
| fenn | you could test it for activity | 10:35 |
| fenn | people might actually pay for that | 10:35 |
| fenn | it always annoyed me that there's no easy way to verify something is what it says it is | 10:35 |
| kanzure | there are many random things i could put up on kickstarter, sure.. | 10:36 |
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| kanzure | fenn: you should make the genomera people do that | 10:42 |
| ENKI-][ | hm | 10:42 |
| fenn | myo-t12 (supposedly) contains follistatin from fertile chicken eggs | 10:43 |
| ENKI-][ | about the best thing i could think of for kickstarter is porting a map-reduce clone with a VM to contiki | 10:43 |
| fenn | derr.. what? | 10:47 |
| kanzure | that's honestly the only kickstarter thing you can think of? | 10:47 |
| fenn | map-reduce for microcontrollers? really? | 10:48 |
| fenn | kanzure did you ever get that robot arm running? | 10:50 |
| kanzure | nope.. bought the parts but didn't bother | 10:51 |
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| fenn | what is the status of the space formerly partially occupied by ahs? | 10:55 |
| ENKI-][ | kanzure: the only thing that's both feasible and worth going on camera for | 10:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: same state as when ahs left | 10:56 |
| ENKI-][ | i mean, you can do the software in a fashion not entirely unlike trivial, but to test it in meatspace you need a shitload of contiki-compatible devices. these are cheap individually, but a thousand arduinos still adds up | 10:58 |
| ENKI-][ | and it would be more like a thousand tisky devices since you want RIME support | 10:58 |
| ENKI-][ | i don't know how much those cost, but i was pretty surprised by the cost of beagleboards and other SBCs. a beagleboard costs 2.5 times what i paid for my new server | 11:00 |
| fenn | yeah, i'm pretty bummed about it too | 11:00 |
| fenn | 10 year old laptop performance for the price of a netbook, what a deal | 11:01 |
| ENKI-][ | which totally killed my pirate-blimp project | 11:01 |
| ENKI-][ | i wanted to have wifi-stealing bittorrent seedboxes in autonomous blimps | 11:02 |
| ENKI-][ | but when a computer small enough to be lifted by a small blimp costs a couple hundred dollars, it's no longer feasible to let a swarm out | 11:03 |
| fenn | hm, well you just need usb host for that | 11:03 |
| ENKI-][ | if a beagleboard has circa 2000 laptop performance, though, that's pretty damned impressive. i was expecting it to have circa 1995 laptop performance | 11:04 |
| fenn | surely there's something cheap-ish? | 11:04 |
| fenn | you overestimate computers in 1995 | 11:04 |
| ENKI-][ | i still use computers built in 1995 | 11:04 |
| ENKI-][ | i have a machine manufactured in 1999 currently running in here | 11:05 |
| ENKI-][ | i also have a laptop built in 1983 in here, but it's not worth using | 11:05 |
| fenn | 1995 toshiba satellite had a 75MHz processor and 4MB memory (upgraded) | 11:06 |
| ENKI-][ | that's damned good compared to the kinds of components i'm used to working with in an embedded context | 11:07 |
| ENKI-][ | an atmega8515 has 512 bytes of ram, 4k flash, and runs at 16mhz | 11:07 |
| ENKI-][ | er. 20mhz if you overclock it | 11:07 |
| ENKI-][ | i think you can upgrade the ram to 1k, but you lose a bunch of your pins | 11:08 |
| ENKI-][ | i was expecting the beagleboard to be roughly equivalent to one of my circa-1995 palmtops -- around 33mhz, maybe a meg of ram if you upgrade | 11:10 |
| kanzure | so there seems to be a lot of people interested in diy transhumanism, | 11:10 |
| kanzure | but 1) they don't have money | 11:10 |
| kanzure | and 2) they are not interested in doing the projects that need to happen | 11:10 |
| kanzure | like boring "make a chromatography setup" | 11:10 |
| ENKI-][ | circa 2000 laptops are, what, 200+ mhz and a hundred megs of ram? | 11:10 |
| kanzure | so, what do i tell them? | 11:10 |
| ENKI-][ | kanzure: you could tell them "do the boring stuff now for a reliable system in ten years, or cut yourself up and die of infection in your kitchen next week" | 11:12 |
| ENKI-][ | but i think a lot of them might go for the latter :P | 11:12 |
| kanzure | "new competition: who can get the most creative infection" | 11:12 |
| ENKI-][ | i think someone has already won that | 11:12 |
| kanzure | bonus points for knowing its identity | 11:12 |
| kanzure | bonus points for fungi with unpronouncable names | 11:13 |
| ENKI-][ | oh. maybe not then ;-) | 11:13 |
| ENKI-][ | no no no. bonus points for fungi with pronouncable names. they are more rare. | 11:13 |
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| kanzure | so a few years ago humanity+ raised $75,000 for absolutely nothing | 11:14 |
| kanzure | i wonder if i can get them to do that again but let me throw money at hardware projects | 11:14 |
| fenn | well, i wouldnt be interested if the beagleboard was just a glorified microcontroller | 11:15 |
| ENKI-][ | i'd like to raise 75k for nothing. where do i sign up? | 11:15 |
| fenn | but it is annoying that there's nothing out there that can do usb host and costs less than $100 | 11:15 |
| kanzure | really? nothing? | 11:16 |
| ENKI-][ | zipit | 11:16 |
| kanzure | usb host seems important | 11:16 |
| ENKI-][ | hell, the new arduino can do usb host | 11:16 |
| fenn | uh, no | 11:17 |
| ENKI-][ | it probably can't do what you want to do with it, if you're looking into beagleboards | 11:17 |
| fenn | the new arduino has hardware usb device mode | 11:17 |
| fenn | i want a low power, small, "real computer" for wearable computing | 11:17 |
| ENKI-][ | ah | 11:18 |
| ENKI-][ | why not just disassemble a netbook? | 11:18 |
| fenn | preferably with composite video out, but meh | 11:18 |
| fenn | you know that's not a bad idea | 11:18 |
| fenn | beagleboard draws less than 2 watts though, i've been seduced | 11:19 |
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| ENKI-][ | get one of the cheap acers with the solid state disk. plenty of battery life. | 11:19 |
| ENKI-][ | i've just got the one netbook, with a real hard disk. it's infeasable as a wearable because i'm unwilling to disassemble it and because it overheats if i shut it and put it in a bag | 11:20 |
| ENKI-][ | but disassemble it and you can do the sash thing | 11:20 |
| fenn | netbooks are all intel cpu's which suck power-wise | 11:20 |
| ENKI-][ | hm | 11:21 |
| fenn | or intel architecture, same diff | 11:21 |
| kanzure | fenn should we arm wrestle over who should fix/redo the document into whatever other format | 11:21 |
| kanzure | or maybe rock-paper-scissors | 11:21 |
| kanzure | i choose rock | 11:21 |
| ENKI-][ | you're concerned about power usage, but you're using a bunch of usb devices? | 11:21 |
| fenn | i choose rock | 11:21 |
| kanzure | best 2/3? | 11:22 |
| ENKI-][ | i choose spock | 11:22 |
| fenn | is there an alternative to usb? | 11:22 |
| fenn | say i want to add wifi functionality, how to go about doing that without resorting to cheap plentiful if poorly documented usb dongles? | 11:23 |
| fenn | and webcams, etc etc | 11:23 |
| ENKI-][ | by resorting to cheap plentiful if poorly documented independent modules that people make usb dongles out of, and directly interfacing them to the mainboard you designed in gschem and etched with a sharpie? | 11:24 |
| ENKI-][ | alternately you could decide to break the software of an existing device that has such capabilities | 11:25 |
| ENKI-][ | hack a psp or some other reasonably cheap portable computing device designed for the button-mashing set | 11:26 |
| fenn | i dont want to hack anything | 11:26 |
| fenn | basically that means "do it the hard way" for the next 5 years | 11:27 |
| ENKI-][ | depends on how much functionality you want | 11:27 |
| fenn | i just want something that works, has drivers for all its components, you know what you would expect from a computer | 11:27 |
| ENKI-][ | you can strap an android phone in front of your face and write an app that causes camera preview to act as an active background | 11:28 |
| ENKI-][ | though, i wouldn't really trust it not to glitch up | 11:28 |
| ENKI-][ | you could build a flashcart, pull the lcd out of a first generation GBA and pull the backing off, and wire a chording keyboard up to some spare lines | 11:30 |
| ENKI-][ | all of those things constitute wearable computing, but none of them are useful | 11:30 |
| fenn | thanks for the useless suggestions | 11:30 |
| ENKI-][ | i'm very good at those. | 11:31 |
| fenn | does zipit work for your blimp idea? | 11:31 |
| ENKI-][ | i don't know. i can't afford a zipit | 11:31 |
| fenn | $50 is too much? | 11:32 |
| fenn | surely a RC blimp costs more than that | 11:33 |
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| ENKI-][ | for something that might not be worthwhile, yes. for something that, to work as planned, needs hundreds? yes. | 11:33 |
| fenn | jeez they got it playing video | 11:34 |
| ENKI-][ | i have a shitload of RC blimps in the barn. when the owners of the nearby toy store got audited by the IRS, they fled to some other country under an assumed name so that they didn't have to pay thirty years of back taxes, and they predictably trashed their entire stock. i got first pick. | 11:34 |
| Lukas_ | hullo | 11:34 |
| ENKI-][ | what they didn't have was boxes upon boxes of nicely hackable computers | 11:35 |
| Lukas_ | Hullo ENKI | 11:35 |
| Lukas_ | I don't believe we've met before | 11:36 |
| ENKI-][ | which is why i had the camera assembly for my telepresence rig long before i had the robot to stick it on | 11:36 |
| ENKI-][ | we may not have. i haven't been here in quite a while. | 11:36 |
| Lukas_ | ah | 11:37 |
| Lukas_ | I am the new kid | 11:37 |
| ENKI-][ | i'm the one in here who is more diy and less bio >.< | 11:38 |
| ThomasEgi | <- no bio at all. mostly diy and electronics | 11:40 |
| ENKI-][ | likewise | 11:40 |
| ENKI-][ | i saw you on the biohack.me place i think | 11:40 |
| ENKI-][ | is it quite as inactive as it looks? i only visisted today. | 11:41 |
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| ThomasEgi | well. it looks like the first lepht hype is about to be over | 11:49 |
| ENKI-][ | and the second about to begin, from the looks of that wired article | 11:51 |
| kanzure | ENKI-][: http://exi-chat.blogspot.com/2011/01/exi-transcending-human-diy-style.html | 11:51 |
| ThomasEgi | ENKI-][, i'm not sure baout a 2nd wave | 11:51 |
| ThomasEgi | i guess the initial talk on 27c3 was quite the quake. | 11:52 |
| ENKI-][ | well, the first wave was due to an article in h+ magazine | 11:52 |
| ENKI-][ | that was back whem h+ magazine existed | 11:52 |
| ENKI-][ | and, it died what? two years ago? | 11:52 |
| kanzure | haha it still exists :( | 11:52 |
| kanzure | i'm getting paid to fix hplusmagazine | 11:52 |
| ENKI-][ | oh | 11:53 |
| ENKI-][ | still, that lepht article was olllld | 11:53 |
| kanzure | 2009? 2010? | 11:53 |
| ENKI-][ | and that's how i got aquainted with her work | 11:53 |
| ThomasEgi | ENKI-][, this wave rolled in after lepht's talk on 27c3 | 11:53 |
| ENKI-][ | the ccc talk would indicate a second wave, i think | 11:53 |
| ENKI-][ | and the wired article a harbringer of it | 11:53 |
| ThomasEgi | jeah. | 11:54 |
| ENKI-][ | by the by, is there a video of her talk floating around? | 11:54 |
| ThomasEgi | well most people on biohack me are just interested in magnets :P | 11:54 |
| ThomasEgi | sure | 11:54 |
| ENKI-][ | i got that impression | 11:54 |
| ENKI-][ | i also got the impression that most of them don't know a diode from an IC | 11:54 |
| ThomasEgi | sad but true^ | 11:55 |
| ThomasEgi | none of them appears to be an engineer of any kind | 11:55 |
| ENKI-][ | cut-yourself-up-and-insert-magnets might become the new nanofingers-will-fix-everything | 11:56 |
| ThomasEgi | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APOAmxFEMkQ | 11:56 |
| ENKI-][ | or the new dreadlocks-and-rollerscates | 11:56 |
| ENKI-][ | ooh | 11:56 |
| ENKI-][ | thanks :-) | 11:56 |
| ENKI-][ | kanzure: by the by, you said you were once called upon to implement zigzag by some XOC people? | 11:57 |
| ENKI-][ | i bring it up because i worked on a project last summer very similar to the one i think you were called upon for | 12:01 |
| kanzure | there's a long story involved but to specifically answer your question, no | 12:07 |
| kanzure | that project involved more indoor localization via wifi anyway | 12:07 |
| kanzure | wait, zigzag or do you mean zigbee | 12:08 |
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| fenn | "Safety campaigners and police say it does not go far enough. They are demanding far tougher sentences than the current maximum of two years for carrying a knife." | 12:23 |
| fenn | i wonder how they chop vegetables in england | 12:23 |
| ThomasEgi | lazors? | 12:25 |
| ThomasEgi | or.. kitchen-turbines? | 12:25 |
| fenn | why would you turn over your bat'leth anyway? i just dont get it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-387680/Lethal-Star-Trek-blade-seized-knives-amnesty.html | 12:25 |
| ThomasEgi | chicken in - curry out? | 12:25 |
| ThomasEgi | so they ban knifes. and people will start killing each other by hitting heads with big-fat-bibles. will they ban the bible,too? | 12:28 |
| fenn | only if they ban all other books as well, and then only criminals will have books | 12:30 |
| fenn | good riddance i say :P | 12:30 |
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| ThomasEgi | not to mention stairs, crosswalks, and chickenwings. | 12:31 |
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| * fenn mumbles something about water poisoning | 12:32 | |
| ThomasEgi | point made. | 12:33 |
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| ENKI-][ | well, she's cute. i was expecting her to be unattractive. | 12:42 |
| ENKI-][ | kanzure: zigzag | 12:42 |
| ENKI-][ | XOC = xanadu operating company | 12:42 |
| ENKI-][ | which is probably technically incorrect because if i recall, it got bought by autodesk, who fired all the people and absorbed the brand after a few years of nothing stable coming out | 12:43 |
| kanzure | oh that's right.. natasha vita-more and ted nelson were doing something | 12:50 |
| kanzure | or at least claiming that they were doing something with zigzag | 12:50 |
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| ENKI-][ | kanzure: and nothing materialized, as far as you know? i recall that you said you had turned them down | 13:03 |
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| joshcryer | http://kepler.nasa.gov/news/nasakeplernews/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=98 | 14:46 |
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| ybit | how does molecular manufacturing affect the supply chain | 16:08 |
| ybit | (well articulated question) | 16:08 |
| ybit | let's say for example you want to create an lcd monitor (because lcd monitors will still be used when molecular manufacturing comes around, wink wink)... | 16:09 |
| ybit | molecular manufacturing may be slow, like repraps/makerbots | 16:10 |
| ybit | in that case, you would want one molecular manufacturing machine(mmm) a certain parts, another producing other parts... | 16:12 |
| ybit | well, i'm not going to toss out all my thoughts, because no one probably cares to hear it, but i'm just trying to walkthrough a scenario where mmm solve the problem of having to work, hunger, etc. | 16:14 |
| ybit | feel free to join in anyone | 16:14 |
| ybit | if it's slow to print, it won't print enough for our consumer demands | 16:15 |
| ybit | or it does, it will require several machines, and i don't think people are going to want 10 of these machines in their houses | 16:16 |
| ybit | (maybe they will) | 16:16 |
| ybit | Utopiah: this is utopian, so you've surely considered it | 16:17 |
| ybit | my pitiful brain can't or just refuses to contemplate it further by itself | 16:20 |
| kanzure | for non-business-oriented stuff you'd just want to spend time making better tools that don't suck | 16:22 |
| ybit | instead of having them in your house, could have small community owned manufacturing shops which contain about 20-40 of these continually running | 16:24 |
| ybit | dejavu, i've thought through this before. time to grep the logs. | 16:25 |
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| kanzure | http://waybackmachine.org/ internet archive is beta testing a new interface | 17:54 |
| pasky | ybit: why can't you start by assembling more molecular manufactoring machines? | 18:44 |
| pasky | leave that process running while you go on vacation and the exponential explosion will do its stuff | 18:45 |
| pasky | another thing is that something needs to put together your gazillions of parts made by gazillions of machines, but i think that's more of an engineering problem of design of the parts, and part of the building process may be manufacturing of a much simpler ("snap in these rods") machine to assemble the real thing :) | 18:46 |
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| pasky | (all assuming that if the energy is already cheap enough to allow you manufacture an LCD monitor this way, it's also cheap enough for all this overhead ;) | 18:48 |
| jebba | kanzure, oh cool, i hope its much faster | 18:48 |
| kanzure | pasky: nanofactory animation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqyZ9bFl_qg | 18:49 |
| kanzure | it seems a little extreme to have an entire device solely devoted to constructing laptops | 18:49 |
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| kanzure | first things i'd build would be better tools- freitas' proposed molecular manufacturing processes take a very long time to assemble/layer single atoms | 18:50 |
| jebba | oh no! the graphics are broken. :( http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19970606121107/http://www.verinet.com/pc/ I think (in 1995) they were the first photos of computer parts on the web (?). | 18:50 |
| kanzure | jebba: is it faster/different? i haven't checked it yet | 18:50 |
| jebba | It's a lot faster. For sure. Much nicer interface. Could be faster more still yet. Not google speeds, but before it was almost unusabel. | 18:50 |
| jebba | ah, at least it has the images later on http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19991002105420/http://www.verinet.com/PC/ | 18:52 |
| pasky | kanzure: i have zero clue about the actual state of technology and future prospect, i'm just working from the proposition that it's realistic to purchase a machine capable of building your lcd :) | 18:52 |
| jebba | http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19991002163235/http://www.verinet.com/PC/assemble.shtml heh | 18:52 |
| jebba | That was back in the photograph on slide film, take it to a processing center, pick up a 1x cdrom a week later, etc. era.. ;) | 18:53 |
| pasky | ybit: (of course this is all kind of thwarted by the exponential explosion - that means the mmm will be already insanely cheap and *you* can afford to skip the mmm bootstrap and just buy many of them) | 18:54 |
| kanzure | world transhumanist association 1999 http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19991013135038/http://transhumanism.com/ | 18:55 |
| kanzure | "the butt end of the technology curve" | 18:55 |
| pasky | ybit: (the real catch then is the energy; this whole thing will imho eat *awful* amounts of energy, so for it to be practical, you'll probably have to step up energy production - but that is entirely in line with the energy consumption curve of humanity so far, of course) | 18:57 |
| pasky | ybit: so if you're considering any economical implications, they must start and end with the energy; for any real change, you must be able to extract the energy from your environment (without destroying it), or all the costs will be just converted to energy distribution costs | 19:00 |
| kanzure | well this is a blast from the past.. http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19991115134956/http://www.transhumanism.com/groups.htm | 19:00 |
| kanzure | todd huffman is on the 1999 page.. his email is listed as alvinjsminavich@hotmail.com | 19:00 |
| kanzure | http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19991116080910/http://transhumanism.com/homepages.htm | 19:07 |
| kanzure | pretty awful. | 19:08 |
| kanzure | i wonder what happened to this http://diybio.chipin.com/diy-afm-dna-sequencer | 19:10 |
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| QuantumG | fuck | 20:22 |
| QuantumG | 34% of people who claim to understand what BCC means cannot identify the correct description of the functionality from a multiple-choice question | 20:23 |
| QuantumG | fucking webmail providers need to add a ? next to that shit | 20:24 |
| QuantumG | in gmail, you select "add Bcc" and it gives you the box but no "help" or description of it. I wonder if *any* email programs actually provide help for the term. | 20:25 |
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| jebba | kanzure, heh http://replay.waybackmachine.org/19981201230543/http://www.verinet.com/dns/ | 20:40 |
| QuantumG | woah | 20:43 |
| QuantumG | 24% of men have edited a wikipedia entry to fix a mistake. 15% have added new material. | 20:44 |
| QuantumG | 4% of women have edited a wikipedia entry to fix a mistake. 3% have added new material. | 20:44 |
| QuantumG | 0% of black men or women have edited a wikipedia entry to fix a mistake. 0% have added new material. | 20:45 |
| QuantumG | are you kidding me? zero? | 20:45 |
| kanzure | what was their sample set? wikipedia users? | 20:58 |
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| QuantumG | ~95% of responders said they had read an entry on wikipedia.. | 21:00 |
| QuantumG | across all genders and races | 21:02 |
| QuantumG | http://quantumg.net/wikirace.jpg | 21:07 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Feb 03 00:00:10 2011 | ||
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