| --- Log opened Mon Feb 14 00:00:10 2011 | ||
| joshcryer | Is "On the viability of the Open Source Development model for the design of physical object" really what qualifies for a thesis these days? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| joshcryer | Or: did Erik de Bruijn get his Masters or is he still studying? >:P | 00:07 |
| joshcryer | Cynicism aside, I just finished reading it tonight, and it's a nice overview of the situation. | 00:08 |
| joshcryer | Though we will have to see if we're at the bottom of the s-curve or if it's about to flaten out as some other RepRap-like technology comes along. | 00:09 |
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| HeLLeHathNoFury | Hello | 00:17 |
| Technicus | HeLLeHathNoFury: There you are! | 00:17 |
| HeLLeHathNoFury | Here I am. | 00:17 |
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| joshcryer | Are you a woman scorned? | 00:21 |
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| kanzure | joshcryer: i've seen worse theses | 06:28 |
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| kanzure | http://theendtimesarehere.com/2011/02/04/mike-treder-day-two-%E2%80%94-%E2%80%9Cgoverning-tech%E2%80%9D-4/ | 10:00 |
| kanzure | is a review of a recent conference.. had a few things about diybio, synthetic biology, pcsbi people, etc. | 10:01 |
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| kanzure | does anyone know where i can get arm-eabi-gdb? | 10:34 |
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| kanzure | nevermind. | 10:44 |
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| strages | if only it were this easy https://github.com/msporny/dna/pull/1 | 13:43 |
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| kanzure | strages: that's not a genome | 13:53 |
| kanzure | try ftp://ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genomes/H_sapiens/ | 13:53 |
| ybit | i want a tshirt | 14:12 |
| ybit | blinky lights included | 14:12 |
| ybit | or not | 14:12 |
| ybit | where's the h+ t-shirt? hrm? | 14:12 |
| ybit | maybe it should say something like "been through the singularity, got the t-shirt to prove it" | 14:13 |
| ybit | or a more personalized one for me: "heath! do something or get out of the way. kthx." | 14:16 |
| mjr | "Went through the Singularity and all I got was this lousy T-shirt with a Basilisk on the back" | 14:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: it's on cafe press if you care | 14:20 |
| kanzure | but personally i wouldn't buy the shirt | 14:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.cafepress.com/humanityplus | 14:20 |
| ybit | eek | 14:21 |
| ybit | take out the green crap and make the letters a dark grey... or make the shirt a dark gray with white lettering and a green plus sign | 14:21 |
| ybit | ..just saying | 14:21 |
| kanzure | nah this is what the "designers" on the board came up with | 14:22 |
| kanzure | whatever. ignore it | 14:22 |
| ybit | heh | 14:22 |
| ybit | so i guess that these designers are just one person who was came up with an idea "oh! we need t-shirts" and was assigned the task of creating a shirt... and then they became busy or didn't know what they were doing | 14:23 |
| ybit | -was | 14:23 |
| kanzure | no | 14:23 |
| kanzure | i wish it was like that but no | 14:23 |
| ybit | wow | 14:23 |
| kanzure | this was the result of their thoughtful consideration and time/effort | 14:23 |
| kanzure | :( | 14:23 |
| ybit | that's just silly | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | "Went through the singularity, and all I got was this lousy grey goo stain on my t-shirt" | 14:33 |
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| jebba | http://www.1011ltd.com/web/blog/post/im_building_a_webgl_tool | 15:07 |
| kanzure | jebba: thanks | 15:11 |
| kanzure | i'm glad someone is getting around to this | 15:11 |
| kanzure | i do find it odd though that he's transferring stl over the network via json | 15:11 |
| kanzure | i mean, webgl can be used to do csg and boundary representation modelling iirc.. | 15:12 |
| jebba | let him know! | 15:13 |
| kanzure | doesn't look open source (he seems to be anti-GPL) | 15:13 |
| jebba | no, it's open source, explicitly | 15:14 |
| jebba | in fact he mentions not using CGAL because it is *too* restrictive | 15:14 |
| kanzure | no: "I would like to enable businesses to embed or integrate this tool, or parts of it, into their infrastructure. If they see QPL or GPL they will decline to do so..." | 15:14 |
| kanzure | "If they see GPL they will decline to do so" | 15:14 |
| -!- thesnark|afk is now known as thesnark | 15:15 | |
| kanzure | on a related note, sencha really rocks on the phone http://dev.sencha.com/deploy/touch/examples/kitchensink/ | 15:16 |
| kanzure | jebba: he might be anti-GPL in the sense that he's into BSD or MIT licensing ;) | 15:18 |
| jebba | ah ya, I just saw he was anti QPL, which is good, but it does sound more like he's going BSD, ya. | 15:21 |
| jebba | kitchensink is nearly a blank page for me. | 15:22 |
| kanzure | what phone do you have | 15:22 |
| QuantumG | someone asked me about Qt the other day | 15:22 |
| QuantumG | the acquisition of Trolltech by Nokia was the best thing that ever happened to them.. no more of this stupid Commercial license crap | 15:23 |
| QuantumG | LGPL ftw | 15:23 |
| kanzure | jebba: it's for webkit on a mobile platform, so if you have android 2.1+ it should be ok | 15:23 |
| jebba | kanzure, i was looking with firefox on my desktop system, if you meant about the site. If you didn't, I have a Nokia N900 for which I hate nokia ;) http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba | 15:23 |
| kanzure | that link to sencha.com is a mobile demo | 15:24 |
| jebba | QuantumG, you see Nokia is going Microsoft for their phones as of Friday? | 15:24 |
| jebba | ah ok | 15:24 |
| kanzure | jebba: see pm | 15:24 |
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| Lukas___ | Good evening gentlemen | 15:47 |
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| kanzure | lame | 15:52 |
| kanzure | s/lame/tease/ | 15:52 |
| kanzure | "You remind me of the seasteading enthusiast who thought we were idiots to form an organization, hire staff, and pay salaries with part of Peter's initial $500K grant," | 16:14 |
| kanzure | "saying that instead we should just put the whole sum up as a prize and define the terms of winning, then go back to our day jobs." | 16:14 |
| kanzure | "Had we done that, I think the result would have been no progress (it's too small a sum for the goal). Instead, I built an organization which has raised $1.25M more since that initial $500K, | 16:14 |
| kanzure | while raising global awareness, producing key research, and inspiring crowdsourced research along the way. A going concern which can keep generating progress indefinitely." | 16:14 |
| kanzure | "Investing in staff for an organization is what gets you the funds to invest in technologies. No salespeople, no sales (donations), no money, no technologies." | 16:14 |
| kanzure | (patri's argument for "hire an executive director for humanity+") | 16:14 |
| kanzure | all i can think of is a few research documents that patri has written | 16:15 |
| kanzure | what else has seasteading institute actually done? | 16:15 |
| kanzure | oh i guess they have a book coming up.... | 16:15 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: i know, i know. don't say it.. just pretend i've already done it | 16:26 |
| kanzure | anyone have the password? http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jeopardy-watson | 16:40 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | hi | 17:58 |
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| kanzure | crud i should prepare a talk/presentation for BIL shouldn't i | 18:58 |
| fenn | did anyone figure out how to watch jeopardy? | 18:58 |
| JayDugger | kanzure, Only if you've already committed to giving a presentation. Will your reputation suffer if you flake? | 19:03 |
| drazak | fenn: yeah you go to the website and get up to 8 free seats! | 19:03 |
| JayDugger | fenn, I have no idea how to watch Jeopardy. I'll wait for the results. The show bored me. | 19:03 |
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| kanzure | JayDugger: i haven't committed to it yet but it's still something i should do | 19:10 |
| kanzure | what are you doing awake? | 19:10 |
| fenn | it's pretty much guaranteed watson will win | 19:15 |
| fenn | unless SIAI terrorist squad manages to plant their sabotage in time | 19:15 |
| kanzure | SIAI's terrorism is much more subtle than that | 19:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you know if patri has actually done anything other than write books/articles? | 19:17 |
| fenn | a couple nice parties on the river | 19:20 |
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| kanzure | "i've raised more money than you so my technology (which doesn't actually exist) is obviously better" | 19:22 |
| kanzure | fsf and gnu have done more work on less money than *i've* been given | 19:23 |
| JayDugger | Me? I'm awake this time of week because I work tonight. | 19:36 |
| JayDugger | Also, today marks St. Valentine's day. | 19:36 |
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| kanzure | http://humanityplus.org/2011/02/gada-prize-documents/ | 20:22 |
| kanzure | by "we" they mean "bryan" | 20:23 |
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| kanzure | Tyrant: logs: http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-02-14.log | 20:24 |
| Tyrant | kanzure, aha thanks but i wont be reading much | 20:26 |
| Tyrant | too busy to go to even diybio now adays | 20:26 |
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| kanzure | hi tav | 20:27 |
| tav | hey kanzure — thx for the pointer | 20:27 |
| tav | so i'm looking to get into the general diy manufacturing/bio/etc. scene — any pointers of where i should hang out and what i should be reading ? | 20:29 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing | 20:30 |
| kanzure | http://groups/google.com/group/diybio | 20:30 |
| kanzure | http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss | 20:30 |
| kanzure | http://reprap.org/mailman/listinfo/reprap-dev | 20:31 |
| kanzure | if you're into forums and http interfaces, cnzone and reprap forums are ok | 20:32 |
| tav | i'm looking for something more like hacker news ideally | 20:32 |
| drazak | fenn: the whole motor driver thing for a reprap could be done cheaper discretely I think | 20:32 |
| tav | thanks btw — joining the various lists | 20:32 |
| kanzure | i have a hacker news knockoff for transhumanist/diy/biology videos.. http://diyhpl.us:9000/ :P | 20:33 |
| drazak | fenn: I few lateral mosfets and a couple bjts | 20:33 |
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| tav | kanzure: is there a non-transhumanist variant of that? ;p | 20:34 |
| kanzure | no | 20:35 |
| kanzure | this is sort of a transhumanist-diybio-manufacturing-asskicking channel | 20:35 |
| kanzure | so you should go away if i offend you | 20:35 |
| tav | heh | 20:35 |
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| tav | well, i don't mind what beliefs others hold, so that's cool with me | 20:35 |
| kanzure | beliefs? it's more of a practicality thing | 20:36 |
| tav | how frequently is http://diyhpl.us:9000/ updated ? | 20:36 |
| drazak | kanzure: one of my irl friends is a fan of ray kurzweil | 20:36 |
| kanzure | tav: it's just an alpha | 20:36 |
| kanzure | drazak: ray kurzweil can suck my dick | 20:37 |
| kanzure | there, i said it | 20:37 |
| drazak | kanzure: I thought you liked him | 20:37 |
| kanzure | tav: so it's not really updated often | 20:37 |
| kanzure | drazak: haha no | 20:37 |
| kanzure | drazak: i'm the kid that emailed him when i was like 12 to insult him | 20:37 |
| drazak | kanzure: oh right | 20:37 |
| kanzure | (he offered a book to me in return, but i declined) | 20:37 |
| drazak | kanzure: sorry I forgot | 20:37 |
| kanzure | tav: part of the problem is that diyhpl.us:9000 isn't really useful right now.. comments on video isn't exactly a brilliant thing on the internet | 20:38 |
| kanzure | oh you can also try http://diyhpl.us:9000/random | 20:39 |
| Tyrant | kanzure, im signed up to diybio and openmanufacturing but i dont follow them. nothing of interest | 20:40 |
| Tyrant | oh wait not talking to me | 20:40 |
| tav | kanzure: is the frontpage in reverse chronological order? | 20:40 |
| Tyrant | my bad | 20:40 |
| drazak | /win 128 | 20:40 |
| kanzure | tav: it's just whenever they were submitted. to be fair it's a bad frontpage | 20:40 |
| tav | well, it's good enough for me — thanks for collating this | 20:41 |
| kanzure | users can submit content somewhere on the top | 20:41 |
| drazak | kanzure: why do you dislike kurzwell | 20:41 |
| Tyrant | tav, get involved, make projects | 20:41 |
| Tyrant | the mailing lists are rather useless if you dont have something you'd like to present for discussion | 20:42 |
| Tyrant | a tidbit of news here and there | 20:42 |
| Tyrant | but like diybio theres just wide swaths of topics with little depth | 20:42 |
| kanzure | drazak: because he's in the business of promotion.. not tech | 20:42 |
| kanzure | self-promotion, even | 20:42 |
| kanzure | it's like all of the futurists from the 90s were envisioning a singularity of feel-good-self-promotion | 20:43 |
| QuantumG | heh | 20:43 |
| drazak | I see | 20:44 |
| tav | Tyrant: well, i'm a bit lost as to where to start tbh — i've joined the lists that kanzure has pointed to and bookmarked diyhpl.us and thingiverse | 20:44 |
| kanzure | plus, his books were basically "i read all of the emails from these mailing lists and then wrote a book" | 20:45 |
| kanzure | tav: what are you looking to do | 20:45 |
| Tyrant | Well what are you interested in | 20:45 |
| tav | and whilst i've been fantasising on this front since i was about a kid, i sadly ventured into hacking of the software kind and haven't gotten into this field | 20:45 |
| kanzure | would you be interested in working on any of these? :p http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/diytranshuman_projects.v4.html | 20:46 |
| kanzure | what sort of software hacking do you do | 20:46 |
| Tyrant | Im actually working on #3 | 20:46 |
| Tyrant | and 4k is way over shooting it | 20:46 |
| tav | kanzure: here's the thing that i've been working on over the last few days http://tav.espians.com/fabric-python-with-cleaner-api-and-parallel-deployment-support.html (draft article) | 20:46 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: i agree $4k is overshooting it. | 20:47 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: these are random numbers attached to each project, btw. | 20:47 |
| kanzure | tav: one of the projects in here is skdb, or apt-get for hardware, written mostly in python http://gnusha.org/skdb | 20:47 |
| kanzure | so you might be interested in poking around that.. | 20:47 |
| kanzure | oh wait.. you're tav-from-espians.. that's how i know you | 20:48 |
| tav | here's an overview of the thing that i've been working on for the last decade or so: | 20:48 |
| kanzure | suresh spams your crap all over the place | 20:48 |
| tav | http://tav.espians.com/temp/ampify-overview.png (decentralised social platform) | 20:48 |
| kanzure | right | 20:48 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm familiar with your work | 20:48 |
| tav | http://tav.espians.com/temp/espra-overview.png (socio-economic systems) | 20:48 |
| Tyrant | What's your language of choice? | 20:49 |
| tav | yes, i believe we briefly met on some channel before? | 20:49 |
| kanzure | probably an espians channel | 20:49 |
| drazak | kanzure: I'm looking to set up an electronics work bench, do you have any projects that need stuff? | 20:50 |
| tav | Tyrant: go, python, javascript/coffeescript (preferred) — and i've hacked in most others | 20:50 |
| kanzure | drazak: heh would you be interested in working on an open source AFM project | 20:50 |
| drazak | kanzure: if someone can design something I'll solder it | 20:50 |
| Tyrant | ah shame | 20:50 |
| drazak | kanzure: you'd need to use HF to make the tips | 20:51 |
| kanzure | drazak: it involves a little bit more than soldering, like some digital signal processing, plastic printing, stuff like that | 20:51 |
| drazak | kanzure: which I am not willing to do | 20:51 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:51 |
| tav | damn, did i miss out your preferred language Tyrant ? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | or you can buy the tips with some money i give you | 20:51 |
| drazak | kanzure: I don't do DSP, either :S | 20:51 |
| Tyrant | tav: my company's preferred language lol | 20:51 |
| drazak | kanzure: I can't program! (shock and horror!) | 20:51 |
| tav | Tyrant: lol | 20:51 |
| tav | ;p | 20:51 |
| Tyrant | been looking for coders lately | 20:51 |
| kanzure | drazak: that's ok, there's this: http://gxsm.sf.net/ | 20:52 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: what are you looking for coders for? | 20:52 |
| Tyrant | without a long winded explanation, the "imdb of politics" | 20:52 |
| kanzure | meh | 20:52 |
| tav | Tyrant: ah, sorry, thought you were referring to lolcode | 20:52 |
| kanzure | some of that already exists | 20:52 |
| Tyrant | kanzure, not on the scale we're doing it | 20:52 |
| tav | think i might have misunderstood your lol there | 20:52 |
| drazak | kanzure: I can put something together for you, that's not a huge problem | 20:53 |
| kanzure | sudo skdb install lolnuke? | 20:53 |
| Tyrant | and we're commercial, not non profit like most are | 20:53 |
| drazak | kanzure: equipment is something I'd need though, let me know if an oscilloscope or benchtop DMM comes your way | 20:53 |
| kanzure | drazak: what do you think about http://www.e-basteln.de/ | 20:53 |
| kanzure | drazak: well, i'd dump money on you for this | 20:53 |
| kanzure | to pretty up the documentation and make this into an open source hardware project or kit | 20:54 |
| kanzure | i.e. there's a last mile amount of work that has to happen here.. | 20:54 |
| Tyrant | for a scanning tunneling microscope? | 20:55 |
| drazak | kanzure: I don't like that it uses an evaluation board | 20:55 |
| drazak | kanzure: that means having to buy it outright instead of getting a free-sample of a chip and slapping it on a board | 20:55 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: well, that's the first issue, it's an STM not an AFM, but they are very similar | 20:55 |
| kanzure | yeah, replacing the chip with an arduino or atmel avr might be nice | 20:56 |
| Tyrant | What kind of precision does it have | 20:56 |
| drazak | kanzure: well that wouldn't be possible | 20:56 |
| kanzure | the STM i linked to? uhh | 20:56 |
| kanzure | drazak: huh? it's electronics, you get to make the circuit, pcb or breadboard | 20:56 |
| drazak | kanzure: the dsp chip there has some features that an arguino doesn't | 20:57 |
| drazak | kanzure: and can't reproduce | 20:57 |
| kanzure | the dsp can be done on the computer instead | 20:57 |
| Tyrant | i mean its great if it costs a couple grand but if its the equivalent of a really nice optical microscope... whats the point | 20:57 |
| drazak | kanzure: not without an expensive dac | 20:57 |
| drazak | kanzure: adc rather, sorry | 20:57 |
| Tyrant | the dsp has to be really high throughtput | 20:57 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: i think the cost can be sub $200 | 20:57 |
| kanzure | having an open platform for AFM or STM is important even if it sucks at first | 20:57 |
| kanzure | but let's shoot for "not sucking" ;) | 20:57 |
| Tyrant | eh i dont see much on that site in the way of actual precision statistics | 20:58 |
| Tyrant | I can't imagine an stm without some really expensive high precision components | 20:59 |
| kanzure | well, i was thinking afm, not stm | 20:59 |
| Tyrant | Yeah thats even more precise | 21:00 |
| kanzure | the amateur versions on the web have done pretty well for sub $1k | 21:01 |
| kanzure | by "pretty well" i mean "an almost clean grid of atoms" | 21:01 |
| Tyrant | how big are the probes | 21:01 |
| kanzure | you mean the minimum diameter? i don't recall anything | 21:01 |
| kanzure | but good lab grade probes are 10 to 100 nm iirc... | 21:01 |
| Tyrant | radius of curvature i believe its called | 21:02 |
| Tyrant | those instruments seem too precise for a diy setting | 21:03 |
| Tyrant | ima stick to my mass spec | 21:03 |
| kanzure | tav: this is probably not helpful except as a way to waste time http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/ | 21:03 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: if you decide to go open source, hit me up and i might be able to find some extra cash for parts.. | 21:03 |
| Tyrant | im already planning almost full open source | 21:03 |
| kanzure | yeah "almost" :P | 21:03 |
| tav | fuck me | 21:03 |
| drazak | kanzure: got a smaller project you'd like electronics collaboration on? | 21:03 |
| tav | you're one active dude! | 21:03 |
| kanzure | drazak: low earth orbit superlaser? | 21:04 |
| drazak | kanzure: I mean, you could do this STM for cheaper I guess, probably $500 or so | 21:04 |
| Tyrant | the 'almost' part is only there until theres a viable alternative business model | 21:04 |
| drazak | "superlaser" | 21:04 |
| kanzure | drazak: yeah i agree.. but for testing and fucking up, a larger budget like $2500 is nice to have | 21:04 |
| Tyrant | I'd imagine the samples for callibrating an stm would be more expensive than 2500 | 21:05 |
| kanzure | oh man it's been a while since i've thought about calibration | 21:05 |
| drazak | kanzure: you can get the motorola chip for cheap, it's just the evaluation board part that's epensive | 21:05 |
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| Tyrant | you can have all the stms you want but you'll never know whether its actually seeing what its supposed to be seing | 21:05 |
| kanzure | drazak: and you think the dsp has to be on a chip? | 21:05 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: nah.. it's pretty obvious when you have noise from your signal processing | 21:06 |
| drazak | kanzure: well maybe | 21:06 |
| drazak | kanzure: you need something to talk to a computer that can talk to 24bit ADC's and DAC's | 21:07 |
| kanzure | someone did it with a soundcard once.. i think | 21:07 |
| drazak | kanzure: sure you can do it with a soundcard if your feedback loop is analog | 21:07 |
| kanzure | the piezos that diy afms use are from headphones | 21:07 |
| kanzure | but you can't control those from a soundcard really.. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | i mean you could but it's easier not to | 21:08 |
| Tyrant | kanzure, no its not. at those scales a small aberation on your detector and you have nothing | 21:08 |
| Tyrant | and all detectors have some abberations | 21:08 |
| drazak | kanzure: you could do it with an MSP430 maybe | 21:09 |
| Tyrant | calibrating the noise floor is easy | 21:09 |
| Tyrant | but calibrating for the actual imperfections in the real measurements is hard | 21:09 |
| drazak | eh, no way | 21:09 |
| drazak | those are 16 bit | 21:09 |
| drazak | you need 24 bit or better | 21:09 |
| Tyrant | just use an xmos and be done with it | 21:09 |
| Tyrant | x) | 21:09 |
| drazak | kanzure: the best way might be a cheap arm, really | 21:09 |
| drazak | kanzure: you can get an arm that will do it for 5 bucks or something insane | 21:10 |
| kanzure | can i use this as an excuse for an fpga | 21:10 |
| Tyrant | yes | 21:10 |
| drazak | no! | 21:10 |
| kanzure | :( | 21:10 |
| Tyrant | why n? | 21:11 |
| Tyrant | no? | 21:11 |
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| kanzure | Tyrant: irc banter.. ignore it | 21:11 |
| drazak | because FPGA is not always the solution | 21:11 |
| kanzure | oh you're serious | 21:11 |
| Tyrant | it is in this case | 21:11 |
| Tyrant | just get one more or less tailored to rf | 21:11 |
| Tyrant | I know little about stms but an rf adc + fpga would win | 21:12 |
| Tyrant | its on the much pricier side but more reliable | 21:12 |
| Tyrant | and you want the idea to work before you get execution down to a minimum | 21:12 |
| drazak | Tyrant: we want to do this low cost | 21:13 |
| drazak | I guaruntee you it can be done cheaper and more reliably | 21:13 |
| Tyrant | you're building a high precision instrument. forget low cost. think iterations | 21:13 |
| kanzure | $200 or $300 is approaching the "hey son, let's do a weekend project to touch freakin' atoms" | 21:13 |
| Tyrant | I guarantee you you're not a giant company specializing in them | 21:13 |
| kanzure | zone. | 21:13 |
| QuantumG | $1000 is that range | 21:13 |
| drazak | no, but I know what parts we can do | 21:13 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: large companies usually don't even believe that the costs could be that low | 21:13 |
| Tyrant | then do those right before you try to burn down the cost | 21:13 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: usually they have other costs like paying $150k/yr salaries.. | 21:14 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: $1k eh? | 21:14 |
| Tyrant | kanzure, those companies need those salaries because they dont have the benefit of ripping off previous work | 21:14 |
| kanzure | that's their fault for playing the IP game | 21:15 |
| Tyrant | you mean it's their fault for surviving? | 21:15 |
| kanzure | surviving? or failing to make an AFM for $200 | 21:15 |
| Tyrant | drazak: if you want to jsut do a project and make something working then chose a more proven project | 21:15 |
| Tyrant | if you want to drive the cost of a scientific instrument down, then start iterating | 21:15 |
| Tyrant | and you're not going to iterate with an arduino and a toothpick | 21:16 |
| Tyrant | at least not until you know exactly how the instrument works and every pitfall along the way | 21:16 |
| kanzure | haha next you're going to say reprap isn't iterating | 21:16 |
| Tyrant | oh no it is | 21:17 |
| Tyrant | its going at its own nice pace | 21:17 |
| Tyrant | you can print shit with it | 21:17 |
| Tyrant | they didnt try to make a $25,000 3d printer for 500$ | 21:17 |
| Tyrant | they tried to make a very very basic version | 21:17 |
| Tyrant | and succeeded. and improved on it | 21:18 |
| kanzure | actually they tried to make a "self-replicating machine" that prints out plastic parts :/ | 21:18 |
| kanzure | but yeah.. who cares | 21:18 |
| kanzure | so anyway, drazak, you want to be involved or not? | 21:18 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: so have you seen anything interesting done with an AFM/STM lately? | 21:18 |
| kanzure | lately? no.. most of the diy work was 1995-2005 | 21:18 |
| Tyrant | work? | 21:19 |
| Tyrant | what works? | 21:19 |
| Tyrant | any working examples of an stm or afm? | 21:19 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:19 |
| QuantumG | yeah, I meant even with professional hardware | 21:19 |
| kanzure | there's tons of interesting stuff being done in labs with AFMs | 21:19 |
| Tyrant | no i mean a diy afm or stm | 21:20 |
| Tyrant | even at a university level | 21:20 |
| drazak | kanzure: I'm down | 21:20 |
| QuantumG | define interesting | 21:20 |
| drazak | kanzure: I've got a few ideas as it is | 21:20 |
| QuantumG | I mean, obviously imaging is interesting but it's not what I was thinking about :) | 21:20 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: check out the papers with 'AFM' in the name http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/ | 21:20 |
| Tyrant | if patents are up, lots of papers are published, and peopel are doing them "diy" at the university level then its a ripe target to burn down the cost | 21:21 |
| drazak | kanzure: got a wiki somewhere I can edit or whatever | 21:21 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: AFM/DNA sequencing, single-plasmid PCR, puncturing cells, | 21:21 |
| kanzure | drazak: yeah.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki | 21:22 |
| kanzure | drazak: git clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki if you want to edit it | 21:22 |
| drazak | kanzure: I don't git | 21:22 |
| kanzure | then you can edit over the web | 21:22 |
| drazak | fantastic | 21:22 |
| kanzure | luser :p | 21:22 |
| drazak | I gave up 6 revision control systems ago | 21:23 |
| drazak | I'd learn one then the next one would change the rules on me | 21:23 |
| kanzure | i'm a little worried that the papers in this directory vanished | 21:23 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/AFM-DNA-sequencing/ | 21:23 |
| kanzure | a few minutes ago they were there.. | 21:23 |
| Tyrant | hmm i need to make an R interface for ipads | 21:24 |
| kanzure | yeah because that's the first thing i reach for when i want to do stats, my ipad | 21:25 |
| Tyrant | yep | 21:25 |
| kanzure | ... | 21:25 |
| Tyrant | what media contacts do you ahve btw | 21:25 |
| kanzure | all sorts.. what do you need | 21:25 |
| Tyrant | we've got a filming crew coming to socaldiybio soon and we're going to do our kickstarter | 21:25 |
| Tyrant | need your forwading around + as many media contacts as possible | 21:26 |
| Tyrant | we've got wired, boing boing, and hackaday already | 21:26 |
| kanzure | sounds slutty | 21:26 |
| kanzure | no thanks.. | 21:26 |
| Tyrant | lol dont want to help the diybio scene?: P | 21:26 |
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| kanzure | who do you need me to introduce you to | 21:27 |
| Tyrant | Not introduce, just send out some emails to media people you know about the socal kickstarter | 21:27 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: here's everyone i know: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt | 21:28 |
| kanzure | tav: you might get a kick out of that.. | 21:28 |
| Tyrant | ahaha i randomly scrolled down and saw kyle kovary | 21:29 |
| Tyrant | I'm under knowledge, lasers and calibration? HAH | 21:29 |
| kanzure | "knowledge" just means "i saw you talking about this" | 21:29 |
| Tyrant | yeah i got that lol | 21:29 |
| kanzure | it helps me compute tag clouds :) | 21:30 |
| kanzure | or do crazy things like list out all biocurious people: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/biocurious-people.txt | 21:30 |
| Tyrant | thats a really nice script you got running tagging all of thse | 21:30 |
| kanzure | yeah i have trouble remembering everyone | 21:30 |
| kanzure | are you my mom | 21:30 |
| Tyrant | huh Todd Huffman has peter thiel on his friends list? | 21:30 |
| kanzure | todd knows a lot of people | 21:31 |
| Tyrant | I'm guessing you have him on your friends list as welL? | 21:31 |
| kanzure | yeah of course | 21:33 |
| Tyrant | hmm | 21:33 |
| Tyrant | pain in the ass contacting him | 21:33 |
| kanzure | nah just contact his assistants | 21:33 |
| kanzure | megan for instance | 21:34 |
| kanzure | or, call his afghani number | 21:34 |
| Tyrant | nah i've got nothing to say yet. just waiting to hear about my fellowship application | 21:34 |
| kanzure | it's.. somewhere in there | 21:34 |
| kanzure | fellowship for what | 21:34 |
| Tyrant | the 20 under 20 thing he did | 21:34 |
| tav | kanzure: neat — though, not sure of what to make of the fact that you've got my gf's phone number in there ... ;p | 21:34 |
| kanzure | no todd didn't put that on | 21:34 |
| Tyrant | mind if I download that text file btw? | 21:34 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: if you're reading it you've downloaded it.. go ahead | 21:35 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: you can also clone it, it's a git repo | 21:35 |
| kanzure | git clone git://diyhpl.us/meetlog | 21:35 |
| kanzure | tav: I KNOW EVERYTHING | 21:35 |
| kanzure | tav: having said that, who is your girlfriend | 21:35 |
| Tyrant | todd didnt put what on? | 21:35 |
| tav | kanzure: sofia | 21:35 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: todd isn't the organizer behind 20under20 | 21:36 |
| kanzure | that's thiel foundation.. | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | i know | 21:36 |
| kanzure | are you under 20 | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | That's why i want to contact peter thiel not todd | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | I can contact todd no problem | 21:36 |
| kanzure | oh, peter is basically impossible to contact | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | its peter that i have a rpoblem with | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | yeah | 21:36 |
| kanzure | i go through patri friedman | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | and yes im under 20 | 21:36 |
| Tyrant | nils hitze is also applying? | 21:37 |
| kanzure | no | 21:37 |
| kanzure | just talking about it | 21:37 |
| Tyrant | matvey ezhov haha | 21:38 |
| Tyrant | this is one hell of a tag cloud | 21:38 |
| tav | kanzure: so, *how* do you have her details? ;p | 21:38 |
| Tyrant | What did you use to build it? | 21:38 |
| kanzure | tav: via suresh fernando | 21:38 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: i have some scripts in the git repo.. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/tag_extractor.py | 21:38 |
| tav | kanzure: ah | 21:38 |
| Tyrant | ahah under joseph jackson you have the whole thing about 20under20 and mass spectroscopy which is im guessing him talking about my ms | 21:39 |
| kanzure | no that was me talking to him | 21:39 |
| Tyrant | ah. excuse my narcissism :p | 21:39 |
| kanzure | i'm glad you enjoy my social life so much | 21:39 |
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| Tyrant | heh | 21:40 |
| Tyrant | just interesting to sift through the tags | 21:40 |
| kanzure | i agree | 21:40 |
| kanzure | it's why i do it | 21:40 |
| kanzure | also because i'd otherwise completely forget | 21:40 |
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| kanzure | "bryan do you remember that thing we talked about last year" "what the fuck?" | 21:40 |
| kanzure | if you want i'll re-upload the html tag clouds | 21:41 |
| Tyrant | hmm now that im finally using a bnc maybe i should set up that script | 21:41 |
| kanzure | i have things like per-person stat views with graphs | 21:41 |
| Tyrant | That'd be cool to see | 21:41 |
| kanzure | and tag clouds and other random crap | 21:41 |
| kanzure | ok | 21:41 |
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| kanzure | Tyrant: here's an old overall tag cloud http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/tags.2010-08-09-1150.html | 21:43 |
| kanzure | oh crud it's one of the bad ones | 21:43 |
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| kanzure | hi g4k | 21:45 |
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| Tyrant | btw kanzure, i dont like that #13 under projects :P | 21:53 |
| kanzure | me either- too much social bullshit going on its board | 21:54 |
| kanzure | i mean, board of directors | 21:55 |
| Tyrant | yep | 21:55 |
| Tyrant | replace them with SoCal | 21:55 |
| kanzure | i told joe that his team sucks | 21:55 |
| kanzure | but he doesn't listen | 21:55 |
| Tyrant | We're making our own gel boxes | 21:55 |
| kanzure | gel boxes don't interest the empire | 21:55 |
| Tyrant | I know | 21:55 |
| Tyrant | but its the best i can do | 21:55 |
| Tyrant | otehr than that laser callibration nonsense | 21:55 |
| kanzure | "Asteroids do not concern the empire, Admiral." | 21:55 |
| kanzure | ok so i got the quote slightly wrong | 21:55 |
| kanzure | so you know matvey? | 21:57 |
| Tyrant | who? | 21:57 |
| kanzure | you brought him up earlier | 21:57 |
| Tyrant | just messing with your tag cloud | 21:57 |
| kanzure | from looking at meetlog.txt | 21:57 |
| kanzure | ok | 21:57 |
| Tyrant | he is also tagged 20under20 | 21:57 |
| kanzure | yeah he's part of Российское Трансгуманистическое Движение | 21:57 |
| kanzure | russian transhumanism branch | 21:58 |
| Tyrant | ehh technically movement | 21:58 |
| Tyrant | not branch | 21:58 |
| kanzure | yeah RTM | 21:58 |
| kanzure | "branch" as in "chapter of world transhumanist association" but it doesn't matter.. | 21:58 |
| Tyrant | im a stickler for my native language ;) | 21:59 |
| kanzure | he keeps telling me to use google translate | 21:59 |
| kanzure | but there's no way i will ever learn | 21:59 |
| kanzure | if i just translate everything all the time | 21:59 |
| Tyrant | no i wouldn't recommend it | 21:59 |
| Tyrant | i dont think it'd properly get transhumanism | 21:59 |
| kanzure | "super gorilla monkey men" | 22:00 |
| Tyrant | also its russian transhumanist movement | 22:00 |
| Tyrant | Xp | 22:00 |
| kanzure | there was apparently a russian project to make super monkey soliders | 22:00 |
| kanzure | *soldiers | 22:00 |
| Tyrant | i bet | 22:00 |
| Tyrant | i'll ask my mom if she worked on soemthing like that | 22:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.ufodigest.com/supersoldier.html | 22:00 |
| kanzure | "According to Russian newspapers Stalin' stated, "I want a new invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they eat."" | 22:00 |
| kanzure | "It alleges that Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered a scientist to create a Super-soldier by crossbreeding humans with apes." | 22:01 |
| kanzure | "The initial budget for the new super-soldier was $200,000, a vast sum in the 1920s." | 22:01 |
| kanzure | "1926 Ivanov went to West Africa in 1926 to perform experiments by impregnating chimpanzees. A centre for the experiments was also established in Georgia for raise the apes." | 22:01 |
| Tyrant | such trustworthy data | 22:01 |
| kanzure | yeah ufodigest is totally my source of news!~ | 22:02 |
| Tyrant | if you werent being sarcastic i'd suggest you use a hammer for your afm and pass it through a 400 mips rf dac | 22:03 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm kind of regretting dropping a link to that | 22:04 |
| kanzure | maybe there's something on wikipedia | 22:04 |
| Tyrant | i wonder what your cloud will do to that link | 22:05 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov_%28biologist%29 | 22:05 |
| kanzure | which link? | 22:05 |
| Tyrant | the super soldiers | 22:05 |
| kanzure | tag you about it :P | 22:05 |
| Tyrant | oh boy | 22:05 |
| kanzure | quick! talk about things you'd rather be tagged about | 22:06 |
| Tyrant | bacon | 22:06 |
| Tyrant | diy electron transmission microscope | 22:06 |
| kanzure | but it might discount it for being close to anything talking about tags (to avoid meta-meta-meta tag injection about tagging) | 22:06 |
| Tyrant | diy MRI | 22:06 |
| Tyrant | damn | 22:06 |
| Tyrant | diy mri anyway | 22:07 |
| Tyrant | going to replace all their superconducting magnets with arduinos | 22:08 |
| kanzure | what | 22:08 |
| Tyrant | itll work i tell you | 22:09 |
| Tyrant | im going to cut their cost | 22:09 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, you around? | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | im trying to figure out some stuff about minipreps and PCR | 22:14 |
| Tyrant | use ice and hot water baths. its hte only way to do it correctly :) | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | for ex: why if we're amplifying the source dna in a miniprep .. do we do it again in PCR | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | Tyrant, you've done PCRs :D | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | and i think a thermocycler is better :D | 22:15 |
| Tyrant | i like thermocyclers but only as decorations | 22:15 |
| Tyrant | i have one sitting right behind my laptop | 22:15 |
| Tyrant | stupid peltier chip burned | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | awesome!! | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | so do you have any idea bout the miniprep and the pcr? | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | like im 90% certain the PCR amplifies it WAAAAYYYYY more efficiently | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | and "dna construct assembly" | 22:17 |
| Tyrant | i think the miniprep isolates the plasmids and PCR amplifies it | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | annd thsi crazy "agarose size filtering" | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | i THINK thats a crazy term for gel electrophoresis | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | bc its using agarose .. they're split up by SIZES of the dna snippets | 22:18 |
| Tyrant | yeah i think the terms are interchangeable | 22:18 |
| delinquentme | and then you're doing gel electro to ensure that you've isolated the proper pieces of DNA | 22:21 |
| delinquentme | and then you do STUFF | 22:21 |
| delinquentme | right? | 22:21 |
| Tyrant | that depends on what you're doing it for. our initial PCRs were taking very small amounts of dna and replicating them | 22:21 |
| Tyrant | but that was just to test whether the pcr worked correctly | 22:22 |
| Tyrant | as well as our imaging equipment, gel setup, etc. | 22:22 |
| ybit | 18:24 < jebba> QuantumG, you see Nokia is going Microsoft for their phones as of Friday? | 22:29 |
| ybit | 18:24 < kanzure> jebba: see pm | 22:29 |
| delinquentme | ybit, did you see that theres an uprising within? | 22:29 |
| ybit | may i ask if the PM is about nokia and microsoft, what the general talk was about? | 22:29 |
| delinquentme | 10 of their employees w significant stock are planning on pulling stunts at the next investor meeting | 22:29 |
| ybit | this is a particular interest of mine | 22:29 |
| delinquentme | ybit, http://nokiaplanb.com/ | 22:30 |
| kanzure | ybit: i have a 'sekr1t' project that i'm not prepared to announce publicly | 22:30 |
| kanzure | so that's what the pm was about | 22:30 |
| ybit | thanks for the link delinquentme | 22:32 |
| delinquentme | ybit, np | 22:32 |
| ybit | gl with your secret project kanzure :) | 22:33 |
| Tyrant | dont forget the tags and arduinos | 22:34 |
| Tyrant | good night everyone im out | 22:34 |
| ybit | gn | 22:34 |
| delinquentme | spectroscopic conc. normalization ? | 22:34 |
| kanzure | Tyrant: yeah it's already in there http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt | 22:34 |
| kanzure | (refresh) | 22:35 |
| * kanzure goes back to sleep | 22:35 | |
| delinquentme | byes! | 22:35 |
| delinquentme | Tyrant, any idea what the above abreeeeved term is | 22:36 |
| Tyrant | Bacon got in! | 22:36 |
| Tyrant | No sorry. | 22:36 |
| Tyrant | I don't know how chimpanzees or humanzees got in either | 22:36 |
| Tyrant | btw delinquentme, conc might be concentratin | 22:40 |
| Tyrant | concentration | 22:40 |
| delinquentme | polemyerase bacon reaction? | 22:42 |
| delinquentme | amplify bacon billions of times | 22:42 |
| delinquentme | yum. | 22:42 |
| delinquentme | vat meat. | 22:42 |
| delinquentme | NOM | 22:42 |
| Technicus | Daeken: I am having significan challanges attempting to implement the Emokit hack. Do you have a how to for Linux usage? | 22:46 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Feb 15 00:00:10 2011 | ||
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