| --- Log opened Sun Mar 20 00:00:10 2011 | ||
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| ybit | fenn, kanzure, you hate siai | 01:35 |
|---|---|---|
| ybit | why | 01:35 |
| ybit | maybe hate isn't the correct word | 01:36 |
| ybit | 2009-12-01.log:23:24 < kanzure> i hate how the singularity institute is focused on "existential risks" | 01:44 |
| ybit | 10:01 < kanzure> they were completely unwilling to listen to me because manufacturing is unreasonable or something | 01:46 |
| ybit | 10:02 < Smari> existential risk folks annoy me too. | 01:46 |
| ybit | 10:02 < Smari> they're severe doomsayers. | 01:46 |
| ybit | 10:02 < kanzure> right and that's what this community is about right now | 01:46 |
| ybit | i'm guessing this is most of it | 01:47 |
| ybit | 0:02 < kanzure> and we're trying to change that | 01:47 |
| ybit | 10:02 < Smari> and won't be told that doom can be averted, because that means they're out of a job. | 01:47 |
| ybit | 10:03 < fenn> that's why any reasonable plan of action involves dismantling the global employee state we've got going | 01:47 |
| ybit | er, guess that was unrelated :) | 01:48 |
| JayDugger | My comment or fenn's quote about global employee state? | 01:49 |
| ybit | JayDugger: you are Smari? | 01:51 |
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| JayDugger | ... | 07:50 |
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| jrayhawk | SIAI's main concern, AI takeoff, is potentially the most significant event in human history, and, among significant events, it has a rare distinction in that we can forsee and influence its initial circumstances such that we might effect its eventual results. The SIAI has taken upon itself to be the stewards. | 08:33 |
| jrayhawk | This responsibility is essentially unfathomable, so they have two real goals at this point: | 08:33 |
| jrayhawk | 1) attempt to find a way of comprehending their undertaking | 08:34 |
| jrayhawk | 2) avoid fucking anything up until 1) is done | 08:34 |
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| jrayhawk | Bryan and Fenn, who make tangential progress on the singularity, do not fit in well with these goals. | 08:37 |
| jrayhawk | Bryan seems to intuit that a goal system such as the SIAI's will result in nothing being accomplished, and a lot of smart people being used to accomplish it. | 08:41 |
| jrayhawk | Which is certainly plausible. | 08:41 |
| jrayhawk | I'm not really all that resentful of it; SIAI's and FHI's rationality blogs (training and recruitment centers for goal number one) seem like a rising tide raising all ships. | 08:59 |
| jrayhawk | and rationality fanfic, of course | 09:00 |
| JayDugger | Harry Potter fanfic, if you please. | 09:01 |
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| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 09:27 |
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| fenn | bertrand russell fanfic | 13:40 |
| ybit | i never really thought about agi seriously until yesterday | 13:43 |
| ybit | something that i guess is hard to admit | 13:44 |
| fenn | what do you mean thought about seriously? | 13:47 |
| ybit | yeah, that's something that need clarification, but i'm having a tough time focusing | 13:48 |
| ybit | probably should brew some coffee | 13:48 |
| ybit | i'm writing my thoughts out right now, one sec | 13:48 |
| ybit | well, i could just think aloud in here | 13:49 |
| ybit | at some point we're going to try expanding our brain's current limitations with nanotechnology, before we do this we need to better understand the brain. | 13:49 |
| ybit | the logical way of doing this would be to create an aritifical brain | 13:49 |
| ybit | once you've done that, you've created the first agi | 13:50 |
| ybit | this is where i'm concerned | 13:50 |
| ybit | i never really considered that agi would come before we used nanotech in our brains, but it makes sense | 13:51 |
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| ybit | this puts into question if creating an artificial brain and publishing the results openly is a good idea | 13:54 |
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| ybit | i put all this in here, because i'm assuming that others in here have given it more thought | 13:55 |
| fenn | people are already creating artificial brains, albeit small ones | 13:55 |
| fenn | we're nowhere close to "real" nanotech | 13:56 |
| ybit | right | 13:56 |
| fenn | however artificial brain != agi | 13:56 |
| ybit | yes | 13:56 |
| fenn | i.e. your cat can't write C++ | 13:56 |
| fenn | publishing the results openly is a good idea. | 13:57 |
| ybit | why? | 13:57 |
| fenn | you aren't smart enough to hog it | 13:57 |
| fenn | the combined efforts of everybody will produce more net benefit than whatever you personally (or your in-group) could come up with | 13:58 |
| fenn | also, if there is indeed any danger, others will be made aware of it | 13:59 |
| fenn | if SIAI is actually developing an AGI in secret like they were discussing years ago, i would be very suprised | 13:59 |
| ybit | i suppose the first agi would be built using supercomputers, and the only persons that would have the capabilities would large corps and extremely wealthy individuals | 13:59 |
| fenn | i guess | 14:00 |
| fenn | you can do a lot with a modern GPU | 14:00 |
| ybit | i don't know enough to say if it could or couldn't be written to thrive on a botnet | 14:00 |
| mjr | botnet distribution is hard | 14:00 |
| ybit | i'm concerned about safeguards these organizations would use when building the agi | 14:01 |
| fenn | i'm still in the camp that AGI is trivial once you know how to do it | 14:01 |
| ybit | also about agi taking off and obliterating humanity | 14:02 |
| fenn | ok, well, write a concerned letter to your nearest university computer science department | 14:03 |
| * fenn goes and reads some web comics | 14:04 | |
| ybit | it would almost seem logical to (a) not allow for this agi to be localized, being fed only the information needed to solve a particular problem and (b) to have the plug pulled after a given time, maybe to prevent it from getting out of control. maybe b isn't necessary | 14:04 |
| fenn | you mean embodied? | 14:04 |
| ybit | localized, er, as in restricted access to the internet | 14:05 |
| fenn | pff | 14:05 |
| fenn | good luck | 14:05 |
| ybit | right, i figured a response would come | 14:05 |
| ybit | i want more thoughts on the matter, i've given it little thought | 14:05 |
| fenn | i thought it was interesting that watson wasn't connected to the net | 14:05 |
| fenn | seems they did it because the net contains mostly junk | 14:06 |
| ybit | hrm | 14:06 |
| ybit | i guess that is silly | 14:07 |
| ybit | i just assumed access to the internet meant access to anything it wanted or needed to expand and (appeal to pathos) destroy humanity | 14:08 |
| ybit | and i haven't read the theories behind seed ai | 14:10 |
| ybit | curious to know the proposed methods for recursive improvement | 14:11 |
| fenn | i havent found anything beyond vague "it would design a better AI" | 14:14 |
| fenn | let me know if you do | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk | http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/aibox | 14:26 |
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| kanzure | "yes but it's 100000 times smarter than you, so you can't possibly do anything about it!!!" | 14:45 |
| kanzure | "nuh uh" | 14:45 |
| kanzure | "i love mom MORE" | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "no i love mom more times 5" | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "no i do, time 20" | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "no me, times infinity!!" | 14:46 |
| QuantumG | from what I've seen of AI researchers, that multiplier brings the AI up to Big Bang Theory smarts. | 14:48 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 17:38 |
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| kanzure | back | 19:45 |
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| kanzure | submitted my ycombinator application | 20:07 |
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| wrldpc2 | if anyone stumbles across artilect war pl0x holler | 20:46 |
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| sebastienb | Hi all. kanzure, you about? | 23:18 |
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| sebastienb | Any gitduino devs about? | 23:24 |
| sebastienb | :D | 23:24 |
| sebastienb | jrayhawk, ping? | 23:40 |
| jrayhawk | hello! | 23:45 |
| sebastienb | How goes it? | 23:45 |
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| sebastienb | I was wondering how gitduino is coming along? | 23:46 |
| sebastienb | :D | 23:46 |
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| jrayhawk | I'm not well informed about gitduino; its relationship to my project management stuff is confusing and I don't keep track of it anyway. It's possible Bryan has the codebase up somewhere, let me see... | 23:48 |
| sebastienb | I've been figuring that self-hosting will be one of the major waypoints. | 23:49 |
| sebastienb | I'm hoping that we'll be doing up a blog.reprap.org intro to it soon. | 23:51 |
| sebastienb | One of the requirements we need to switch over is co-maintainers, so there's a payoff to announcing it, once it's got the usability to make it interesting. | 23:52 |
| jrayhawk | I don't see a published repo for it, so I'm probably about as informed as you. It's possible Bryan has specific features he's waiting on from me; if he does, you can feel free to bug me on his behalf or whatever. | 23:53 |
| sebastienb | I emailed Bryan yesterday. I'll try pinging him again tomorrow. | 23:54 |
| sebastienb | (The mediawiki has been driving me up the wall for ~5 years ...) | 23:54 |
| sebastienb | jrayhawk, I think I'll be signing off. It's a bit late, and I've got a busy day tomorrow. | 23:57 |
| jrayhawk | Last I heard, gitduino is a sort of a nice wrapper for piny anyway, so if you want something primitive working now and have a VPS lying around, I can install that for you. | 23:57 |
| jrayhawk | install piny, i mean | 23:57 |
| --- Log closed Mon Mar 21 00:00:03 2011 | ||
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