| --- Log opened Wed Aug 17 00:00:27 2011 | ||
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| fenn | hm. google plus. le sigh | 04:22 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | at least this way i don't have to break my oath about facebook | 04:22 |
| fenn | "< strages_> why not just administer an IQ test upon anyone joining the channel?" what an excellent idea | 04:24 |
| fenn | http://www.ftrain.com/woods-plus.html The only thing they could want me for is harvesting. | 04:39 |
| fenn | " this lets you divide people into clusters and lie to each group in different ways, which makes it easier to preserve the fictions that make up our polite racist society" | 04:39 |
| kanzure | consistent multi-circle lying is really hard to scale | 05:19 |
| superkuh | It's just as bad. You'd be breaking it in spirit. | 05:22 |
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| kanzure | why do i keep thinking sf is 2 hours ahead | 05:52 |
| kanzure | i am five hours early for a call | 05:52 |
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| kanzure | this doesn't focus enough on DOM | 06:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowserswork/ | 06:43 |
| kanzure | but otherwise an ok intro | 06:43 |
| kanzure | http://cheapassscience.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/the-diy-microscope-incubator-is-complete/ | 06:45 |
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| kanzure | hmm files http://diylilcnc.org/downloads/ | 07:00 |
| kanzure | mabel robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOwk6_xpWo | 07:01 |
| kanzure | wall climber robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEMlkonimvQ | 07:05 |
| kanzure | the wall climbers need a giant lance on their back so they can hook onto the top edge of a roof and pull themselves over | 07:06 |
| kanzure | i see that one of those is articulated through the mid-section but i can't imagine that helping much | 07:06 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 07:08 |
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| kanzure | todo: medical tourism rating site | 07:32 |
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| kanzure | i guess there's this http://reviews.treatmentabroad.com/ | 07:37 |
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| kanzure | hah "pain is just weakness leaving your body" | 07:57 |
| JayDugger | That ignores the possibilities of injuries that cripple or maim. | 07:57 |
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| kanzure | http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2011/08/if-the-software-method-is-not-patentable-then-neither-is-the-computer-readable-medium.html | 08:11 |
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| eridu | kanzure: just saw the quantified self blog post on meetlog -- I can't view videos now, but that looks incredible! do you have a link? | 08:40 |
| eridu | (it is sadly not terrifically googleable) | 08:40 |
| kanzure | eridu: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/meetlog/plain/meetlog.txt | 08:55 |
| eridu | kanzure: how do you keep track of how much you talk? | 08:58 |
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| kanzure | eridu: there's actually a lot of flaws | 09:26 |
| kanzure | like why the hell aren't i tracking per-conversation information? | 09:27 |
| kanzure | or per-message? | 09:27 |
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| kanzure | it makes no sense to lump every interaction i have with someone in a single day into the same 'block' or record | 09:27 |
| kanzure | oh great | 09:27 |
| kanzure | fine, leave me | 09:27 |
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| kanzure | "The US Navy, for example, was in need of a real-time kernel with deterministic performance characteristics in order to develop anti-missile technologies for their fleet. Linux didn’t have such a kernel, so the Navy contributed it." | 16:19 |
| kanzure | hmm what | 16:19 |
| archels | what indeed | 16:20 |
| archels | RTOS extensions? | 16:21 |
| kanzure | didn't NIST develop real-time kernel contributions? | 16:21 |
| archels | I don't know | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | I imagine you could find the commits | 16:25 |
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| kanzure | what? do work? | 16:37 |
| QuantumG | yeah, seemed pretty unlikely | 16:48 |
| kanzure | http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/ | 16:49 |
| kanzure | ohhh shit | 16:49 |
| kanzure | "He discovered that he talks 60% of the time" | 16:50 |
| kanzure | well.. | 16:50 |
| kanzure | hah posting it on facebook: fenn's image shows up | 16:51 |
| kanzure | close enough i guess | 16:51 |
| archels | Did they just stick their intro on your talk video? | 16:53 |
| kanzure | prolly | 16:53 |
| kanzure | hah i didn't even notice that | 16:54 |
| kanzure | i skipped to the middle and ends | 16:54 |
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| eudoxia | Is there such a thing as a .pdf of Nanosystems? Because if there is I can't find it | 17:25 |
| kanzure | .pdb? | 17:27 |
| kanzure | if by .pdf you mean something completely unusable, no- chemists have managed to keep their file formats fairly ok | 17:27 |
| eudoxia | hehe | 17:27 |
| kanzure | there's also a few formats that nanoengineer uses | 17:27 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer | 17:27 |
| kanzure | http://nanoengineer-1.com/ | 17:27 |
| kanzure | http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page | 17:28 |
| eudoxia | I mean a copy of the book | 17:28 |
| QuantumG | I think Engines Of Creation is up | 17:28 |
| kanzure | oh another type is mmp | 17:28 |
| kanzure | oh | 17:28 |
| kanzure | fuck | 17:28 |
| QuantumG | .. but I don't remember seeing Nanosystems | 17:28 |
| QuantumG | check torrents I guess | 17:28 |
| eudoxia | Engines of Creation is up, yes, I have it. Nanosystems is nowhere to be found. | 17:28 |
| eudoxia | kanzure I thought you were joking. You read Nanosystems as NanoEngineer or what? | 17:29 |
| QuantumG | hmm.. http://e-drexler.com/d/06/00/Nanosystems/toc.html | 17:29 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/stuff_to_deal_with/nanosystems.tar.gz | 17:29 |
| kanzure | i thought you meant nanosystems.. not Nanosystems-the-Book | 17:30 |
| kanzure | anyway.. there you go, enjoy | 17:30 |
| eudoxia | I thought there was only one Nanosystems | 17:30 |
| eudoxia | oh well | 17:30 |
| QuantumG | almost looks like they half did it and then stopped | 17:30 |
| kanzure | i thought you meant "nanosystems" like.. a noun for the thing.. the concept :) | 17:30 |
| kanzure | anyway the .tar.gz should wrok | 17:30 |
| kanzure | work | 17:30 |
| eudoxia | Thank you | 17:30 |
| eudoxia | The TOC has a few sample chapters, the rest is only in the hardcopy version | 17:31 |
| QuantumG | I went to my local reference desk, where I originally read Nanosystems, and asked for the copy.. they physically sighed because they had to go down into the archive to retrieve it. | 17:33 |
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| eudoxia | I'm rather late to the party because nowadays all I hear is how diamond nanotech is infeasible and everything based on a UHV and mechanosynthesis is DOOMED TO FAIL | 17:36 |
| QuantumG | uh huh, where do you hear that? | 17:36 |
| eudoxia | Well, there's that Philip Moriarty guy, for one thing. He's working on mechanosynthesis but doubts it can be scaled up. And that Scott Locklin guy but I heard he was a flamebaiting troll. | 17:38 |
| eudoxia | And some Internet random who told me only wet, squishy proteins work, and to prove it took a picture of his Nanochemistry textbook with a timestap that read "Eric Drexler is a crazy mofo" | 17:39 |
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| QuantumG | sounds like strong argument :) | 17:40 |
| eudoxia | So I guessed I'd read nanosystems and make an informed opinion | 17:41 |
| QuantumG | yeah, go to the library. Assuming they haven't burned it down yet. | 17:42 |
| eudoxia | I doubt they will have a copy of Nanosystems | 17:43 |
| QuantumG | ask.. libraries will even get it in from another branch if you ask. | 17:43 |
| QuantumG | or.. amazon has 49 used from $5 | 17:44 |
| QuantumG | http://www.amazon.com/Nanosystems-Molecular-Machinery-Manufacturing-Computation/dp/0471575186/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313628276&sr=8-1 | 17:45 |
| eudoxia | I considered it but the Internet is always cheaper | 17:47 |
| eudoxia | :> | 17:47 |
| eudoxia | One question, though, since you've read it: Is is specifically for physics/chemistry undergrads or something along those lines, or is it more general? Obviously it's not pop-sci like Engines of Creation but I want to know how much preliminary knowledge I need to read it | 17:48 |
| QuantumG | I read it when I was 18 and understood it. | 17:50 |
| eudoxia | Okay then | 17:50 |
| QuantumG | knowing a little about computational chemistry helps though. | 17:50 |
| eudoxia | Well I know about normal chemistry. The only thing I know about computational chemistry is how to press the Run Dynamics button in NanoEngineer | 17:51 |
| eudoxia | look mommy i am siens | 17:51 |
| QuantumG | you probably know enough to read it and understand it. | 17:52 |
| QuantumG | just noticed I already had another book in my amazon shopping cart which I hadn't bought yet.. so I just added a copy of nanosystems :) | 17:53 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: ok but really the link i gave you is the full thing | 17:53 |
| kanzure | moriarty has always been against diamondoid mechanosynthesis | 17:54 |
| kanzure | see http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/freitas_process/notes.txt | 17:54 |
| kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/ | 17:54 |
| QuantumG | oh kanzure, didn't see your link. doh | 17:54 |
| QuantumG | I guess eudoxia missed it too.. http://gnusha.org/stuff_to_deal_with/nanosystems.tar.gz | 17:55 |
| * kanzure pouts | 17:55 | |
| QuantumG | be nice to have the dead tree though... I can smack small thinkers over the head with it. | 17:56 |
| QuantumG | the other book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316491977 | 17:59 |
| meefs | large file QuantumG | 17:59 |
| QuantumG | meefs: as kanzure said, it's the whole book | 18:00 |
| meefs | no compression? | 18:00 |
| QuantumG | gz = compression. | 18:01 |
| eudoxia | kanz, quantum, yes I'm downloading it | 18:01 |
| eudoxia | And I'll love you guys forever | 18:01 |
| QuantumG | it aint bz2 but it's almost as good | 18:01 |
| kanzure | it's just photos | 18:02 |
| kanzure | or scans of the pages | 18:02 |
| eudoxia | Maybe they can be OCR'd | 18:03 |
| QuantumG | you do that :) | 18:03 |
| meefs | well this is the only 700meg+ 'book' I've downloaded | 18:03 |
| eudoxia | I tried OCR'ing a book I have but Christ the text output is all messed up. And each scan was like two thousand pixes wide | 18:04 |
| meefs | even huge text using scanned pages never reach above 100MB | 18:05 |
| meefs | oh well it must be worth it :) | 18:05 |
| kanzure | most people manually correct anything ocr'd | 18:06 |
| QuantumG | hmm 576 pages.. seemed longer in my memories | 18:07 |
| klafka | kanzure that seems like a huge amt of time | 18:08 |
| kanzure | klafka: remember the people who used to type up books when they were learning to type? | 18:08 |
| kanzure | that is, until they ran out of fun books that nobody had typed up yet.. | 18:08 |
| klafka | haha true | 18:08 |
| kanzure | klafka: i might have a job for you | 18:09 |
| kanzure | but it would require relocation to san francisco | 18:09 |
| kanzure | is it ok if i pass on your resume or would you prefer to cold call them? they would love that | 18:10 |
| klafka | go forf it kanzure | 18:10 |
| klafka | i want to move to sf | 18:11 |
| klafka | what kind of job is? | 18:11 |
| kanzure | random web startup got some funding and needs additional programmers | 18:11 |
| klafka | ah | 18:11 |
| klafka | yeah sure | 18:11 |
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| QuantumG | the concept of sliding seals to expand the work area of a nanofactory is what comes into my head when I think about mechanosynthesis | 18:16 |
| eudoxia | I'm worried about how extensible the process is, to other elements and other molecules. | 18:17 |
| QuantumG | the focus on hydrogen/carbon is a little blinding. | 18:18 |
| eudoxia | I mean, I can imagine 'regular' atom stacking to produce diamond, and easily make something like the Universal Joint ( http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Universal_Joint ) because that's simple enough. It's just a slab of diamond. But something like the differential gear ( http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Differential_Gear ) is just... I doubt one can just make a litle wheel of Carb | 18:19 |
| eudoxia | on and decorate it with Sulphur. | 18:19 |
| eudoxia | And then there's the fact it uses more elements than merely Carbon and Hydrogen. And that you have to build the thing as you build the case, which requires the tips to move from any arbitrary direction, and have sub-angstrom precision all the time. | 18:20 |
| QuantumG | is that because the concept of hydrogen abstraction has been explored and you've read about that, but you haven't read anything similar for sulphur? | 18:20 |
| eudoxia | Hydrogen abstraction and donation, and Carbon deposition, those I know have been studied and simulated, but I don't know about sulphur mechanosynthesis, or even how well it extends to other covalently-bonded crystals like, say, silica or boron nitride | 18:21 |
| QuantumG | well, the availability of accurate positional placement is the fundamental assumption.. so you have to just accept that as an axiom (which is what makes mechanosynthesis so hilarious, cause we don't have it) | 18:22 |
| QuantumG | so yeah, it really is just about tooltips | 18:22 |
| eudoxia | But the underlying chemistry is feasible? | 18:23 |
| QuantumG | in nanosystems he describes all the tooltips he uses and shows they can simulated, etc. | 18:23 |
| eudoxia | So the problem is not fat fingers or sticky fingers... But steady fingers | 18:24 |
| QuantumG | all the work that has been done since has basically been trying to make simpler tools.. or tools that *we can actually make* with existing technology. | 18:24 |
| eudoxia | Like the mechanosynthesis experiments with AFM? | 18:24 |
| QuantumG | depends which ones you're talking about.. but yeah. | 18:27 |
| eudoxia | I remember a 2003 experiment where they removed a Silicon atom and put it down somewhere else, and a 2008 experiment where they wrote "Si" on a diamond surface. But again I don't know how that translates to diamond, or if an AFM tip counts as a reactant molecule | 18:29 |
| QuantumG | but the simple fact is, although mechanosynthesis has been shown possible, and even practical, it hasn't been implemented and so far I have seen a roadmap that has sufficient detail to convince me that it ever will be. And that's kinda sad. | 18:29 |
| QuantumG | and more people have to get into it as a research field if it is ever going to happen. | 18:30 |
| eudoxia | I hope it doesn't end up like fusion, with people saying that it "will always be fifty years away" | 18:31 |
| QuantumG | if it continues at the current progression, linear extrapolation puts it far beyond our likely lifetimes.. even kanzure's :) | 18:31 |
| kanzure | i only have another five years anyway | 18:31 |
| QuantumG | well, my opinion of fusion is that it got politicized in the 80s and the healthy rivalry that was driving the research community got replaced with plodding bureaucratic "cooperation". | 18:33 |
| QuantumG | so really, the catch phrase should be "ITER is always fifty years away" | 18:34 |
| kanzure | consortia! consortiums! conferences! proceedings! royal societies! | 18:34 |
| kanzure | how else are things supposed to happen?? (i am joking) | 18:34 |
| QuantumG | ya | 18:34 |
| QuantumG | but also, people assume nuclear fusion power plants will be just like nuclear fission power plants... complete with all that government oversight, etc, etc | 18:35 |
| QuantumG | that's just the defacto position. | 18:36 |
| QuantumG | why do fission power plants have such government involvement? Do coal plants? Or oil plants? Or natural gas plants? Not nearly.. because the threat to public safety is so completely different. | 18:37 |
| QuantumG | well, what's the threat to public safety of fusion like? Is it like fission? Not even. | 18:38 |
| QuantumG | So what does that mean? Well, it means that GE isn't going to fund fusion research like they would other power technologies, because the threat of massive government control of any plant that they ever actually build means they're not going to be able to capitalize on that investment. | 18:39 |
| QuantumG | And, from the other side, it means that government funding for anything which is any safer than the Tokamak concept is marginalized because it threatens the necessity of oversight. | 18:42 |
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| eudoxia | yes, yes, eight minutes left in the download, yes... | 18:47 |
| eudoxia | On topic now I heard nice things about the tandem mirror | 18:47 |
| eudoxia | And then how in the eighties someone decided we should all stick with the Tokamak and every other project was shafted | 18:48 |
| QuantumG | watching http://www.livestream.com/tedxnasasiliconvalley | 18:51 |
| kanzure | kanzure: who are you | 18:54 |
| kanzure | oh | 18:54 |
| kanzure | weird, i'm on freenode twice | 18:54 |
| QuantumG | not here | 18:55 |
| jrayhawk | kanzure only has five years because eventually one of his dissociated identities will attempt to kill another | 18:55 |
| QuantumG | clearly | 18:56 |
| kanzure | neuroblastoma had a sex change to victoria? | 18:57 |
| jrayhawk | it's amazing what can be done with silicon implants these days | 18:58 |
| QuantumG | well, saline | 18:58 |
| kanzure | what's up with people mixing up silicon and silicone anyway | 18:59 |
| Tyrant | holywood and the bay area are quite close to each other | 19:00 |
| Tyrant | it's an understandable mistake | 19:00 |
| QuantumG | I want silicon implants.. in my brain. | 19:01 |
| jrayhawk | those tend to get rather warm... | 19:01 |
| kanzure | no way dude they will start to sag in 6 years | 19:01 |
| kanzure | s/sag/lag/ | 19:01 |
| QuantumG | heh | 19:01 |
| QuantumG | whereas I often have silicone implants *on* my brain | 19:02 |
| QuantumG | just a 4 function calculator implant would do. | 19:03 |
| kanzure | so i'm doing the training of my vietnamese programmers | 19:04 |
| kanzure | basically i have a ticketing system on unfuddle.com | 19:04 |
| kanzure | and i add tickets for whatever they should install or read | 19:04 |
| kanzure | (when they're not working on projects) | 19:04 |
| jrayhawk | any particular reason you chose unfuddle over github? | 19:04 |
| kanzure | no | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i wanted redmine but then i realized i only had an hour to write 200 tickets | 19:05 |
| kanzure | so i wrote a script to auto-post yaml files into tickets on unfuddle | 19:05 |
| kanzure | anyway | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i've gone through basic javascript, html5, iphone, android, css3, and dev tools | 19:06 |
| jrayhawk | I have private repository stuff working in Piny, now, by the way. | 19:06 |
| kanzure | if they are going to be bored i'd like them to be reading/trying useful demos | 19:06 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: i might have to switch all of this over to piny | 19:06 |
| kanzure | there's about 40 repos | 19:06 |
| kanzure | and right now these assholes are committing builds to git repositories | 19:07 |
| jrayhawk | bahaha | 19:07 |
| kanzure | and i need to setup a build server | 19:07 |
| jrayhawk | you should make them aware of git-annex | 19:07 |
| kanzure | because everyone running android/xcode to build apps all the time is inefficient | 19:07 |
| jrayhawk | git annex is pretty cool for builds | 19:07 |
| kanzure | oh.. yes i should | 19:07 |
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| kanzure | i also gave them a huge list of documentation and tutorials to read | 19:09 |
| kanzure | oh.. yes i shouldys | 19:09 |
| kanzure | oops | 19:09 |
| kanzure | backbfufer | 19:09 |
| kanzure | backbuffer | 19:09 |
| jrayhawk | i blame the dissociative personalities | 19:10 |
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| kanzure | a mi missing any particular topic i should make them read/demo/test/play with? | 19:10 |
| jrayhawk | I don't even know what you're developing. | 19:11 |
| kanzure | i am having them do mobile and web apps mostly | 19:11 |
| kanzure | also games, probably using unity3d | 19:11 |
| kanzure | various opengl es 2 stuff | 19:11 |
| kanzure | cat */*.yaml | grep subject: | sort | uniq | ssh bryan@gnusha.org "cat > ~/public_html/irc/training.txt" | 19:14 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/training.txt | 19:14 |
| kanzure | oh maybe i will have them play with parse.com | 19:15 |
| kanzure | blah beta invite only? screw that | 19:15 |
| QuantumG | hmm.. Venter is presenting some results I wasn't up to date on | 19:24 |
| QuantumG | at http://www.livestream.com/tedxnasasiliconvalley | 19:24 |
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| kanzure | klafka: sent you over the details | 20:00 |
| klafka | oh cool | 20:01 |
| klafka | so did you send them my resume then/ | 20:02 |
| klafka | aah kanzure this is really interesting | 20:03 |
| mayko | http://topologicoceans.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/you-cant-predict-the-weather/ | 20:03 |
| mayko | yay! | 20:03 |
| klafka | it's an idea I was sort of thinking along very similar lines about | 20:03 |
| kanzure | klafka: no | 20:04 |
| klafka | ah ok | 20:04 |
| kanzure | i figured you could suprise them or something | 20:04 |
| kanzure | surprise | 20:04 |
| klafka | LOL | 20:04 |
| klafka | i think I'll email them first | 20:07 |
| klafka | i really don't like cold calling people | 20:08 |
| kanzure | no it's going to be super casual | 20:09 |
| kanzure | "yo dude i'm some guy i can write some code wazzup" | 20:09 |
| klafka | lol | 20:09 |
| kanzure | you can prep by cold calling me | 20:13 |
| kanzure | not really a cold call though | 20:13 |
| klafka | hah | 20:14 |
| kanzure | klafka: in other news, | 20:23 |
| kanzure | http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/ | 20:23 |
| kanzure | is up.. | 20:23 |
| klafka | ooh cool | 20:25 |
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| kanzure | good night | 21:07 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Aug 18 00:00:29 2011 | ||
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