| --- Log opened Thu Sep 29 00:00:32 2011 | ||
| AlonzoTG | dripping from a dead dog's eye. | 00:50 |
|---|---|---|
| QuantumG | finally | 00:54 |
| kanzure | hello? | 00:55 |
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| kanzure | boycotting free reviewing for corporate journals http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=417576&c=1 | 01:57 |
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| kanzure | hi strangewarp | 02:05 |
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| kanzure | canaan isn't that bad | 15:41 |
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| joshcryer | Is there a hplusroadmap map anywhere? | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | they're still working on the huplusroadmap roadmap map | 19:11 |
| joshcryer | Closest thing I got that's useful is "The Millennial Project" (which I mentioned here before). Only instead of building Aquaris you build a lunar manufacturing base first, then you built Aquarius. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: that is mostly defunct due to luf (life universe foundation) and tmp2 | 19:16 |
| QuantumG | The Millennial Project has become a socialist utopian fantasy.. driving away its founder. | 19:17 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, imo, they retain the same seed settlement "seasteading" idea. ie, requiring, again imho, a lot of capital investment. | 19:18 |
| QuantumG | the fundamental "seed" was the development of OTC electrical power systems. | 19:21 |
| QuantumG | not only was that a shaky foundation, but a lot of the stuff that was built on top of it, like seament, was junk too | 19:21 |
| joshcryer | OTEC can work but I agree it's iffy, that's why I think a focus should be a lunar seed that can be used to remotely build a manufacturing base on the moon. Then you go to space based solar, to power your little city. | 19:23 |
| QuantumG | your complaint was about the massive capital required | 19:26 |
| QuantumG | a lunar seed is even more capital | 19:26 |
| joshcryer | Most significant cost would be getting it there. Unless you could shrink it down absurdly. | 19:32 |
| QuantumG | yup.. and the cheapest launch makes an OTEC look cheap | 19:34 |
| joshcryer | Just have to see if costs come down. | 19:37 |
| joshcryer | Meanwhile work on seed machines, of which the development is partially there in the various maker projects. | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | unless you can get your seed machine down to less than the mass of a few humans, you might as well send the humans as well | 19:38 |
| joshcryer | Pfft. | 19:39 |
| joshcryer | And the life support to keep those humans alive? | 19:40 |
| QuantumG | you can make self-replicating robots but you can't make a little life support? | 19:40 |
| joshcryer | Well they would be lousy replicators if they couldn't, but it seems like a waste of effort to worry about that in the initial seed flight. | 19:41 |
| QuantumG | doesn't sound like there's much thought going on here | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | extracting water (and hopefully carbon) from permafrost sounds a heck of a lot easier than self-replicating machines | 19:44 |
| joshcryer | I don't like the term self-replicating because only one celled organisms are marginally self-replicating. | 19:44 |
| joshcryer | I like the idea of hive replication, and I do not think building such machines is beyond current human capacity. | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | I don't think it is either | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | but that's irrelevant to whether or not it is easier - or more desirable - to just send freakin' humans to the Moon already with the means to live there permanently. | 19:46 |
| joshcryer | Certainly technically speaking, if you don't want to build hive replicators, you are going to find it easier to put humans into little pods and have them drive little bulldozers around and whatnot. | 19:47 |
| joshcryer | Since they're natures intelligent replicators anyhow. | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | in any case, if you want to build hive replicators, the Mojave desert sounds like a much more amusing place to do it. | 19:48 |
| joshcryer | Amusing, sure, until the Bureau of Land Management decides to confiscate and or destroy them. | 19:49 |
| -!- Stieru_Ridir is now known as Steel_ | 19:50 | |
| QuantumG | there's that guy who puts them walking robots on the beach | 19:50 |
| kanzure | strandbeestman | 19:50 |
| joshcryer | I got a little piece of land waiting for me to move to it surrounded by BLM land. | 19:50 |
| foucist | imo, i think the cheapest way to colonize space is probably to start with an NEA and ride it out to the asteroid belt | 19:51 |
| joshcryer | BLM doesn't mind you driving lots of offroad vehicles on their land. | 19:51 |
| foucist | set up the NEA so when it gets back to earth it's ready for even more people | 19:51 |
| joshcryer | But they really really really don't like it when you remove rocks or any other stuff from said land. | 19:51 |
| joshcryer | (without mineral leases and environmental studies being done and so on) | 19:52 |
| joshcryer | Maybe AU would be more suitiable since it's relatively desolate and no one would know the wiser. | 19:52 |
| QuantumG | you could follow the JSC recipe and make lunar regolith simulator | 19:53 |
| QuantumG | build a really big sandbox of it | 19:53 |
| joshcryer | That's what I wanted to do, first thing I'm going to do is melt some. Just for giggles. :) | 19:53 |
| QuantumG | then make your hive in that | 19:53 |
| QuantumG | of course, you don't have vacuum available, but you could simulate that too I guess | 19:53 |
| joshcryer | I was thinking mild vaccum filled with argon. | 19:54 |
| QuantumG | I've been buying argon lately | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | it's annoying expensive | 19:55 |
| joshcryer | really? | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | $109 for 1.6 m^3 | 19:56 |
| joshcryer | I was thinking argon because I wanted to make my own liquid nitrogen and argon would be a byproduct. | 19:58 |
| QuantumG | probably much cheaper if you buy it in bulk anyway | 19:58 |
| joshcryer | Yes, but I won't learn crap buying stuff in bulk. :( | 19:58 |
| joshcryer | I could theoretically buy a lifetime supply of MREs, but I plan to grow my own food and recycle my own waste. | 19:59 |
| joshcryer | And document the whole thing. | 19:59 |
| joshcryer | (except the shits maybe) | 19:59 |
| QuantumG | might wanna buy some MREs | 20:00 |
| joshcryer | Surely some here would love an open hardware design for a liquid nitrogen generator. | 20:00 |
| joshcryer | I saw a guy on YouTube who apparently built one for a maker festival, but I couldn't find anything else about it. | 20:00 |
| joshcryer | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/06/diy-liquid-nitrogen-generator.html | 20:02 |
| QuantumG | so ya got any plans for vertical farming on this property/ | 20:04 |
| QuantumG | ? | 20:04 |
| QuantumG | cause ya know all the kids love vertical farming | 20:04 |
| joshcryer | No. | 20:09 |
| joshcryer | Flat farming. :P | 20:09 |
| QuantumG | dirt farming | 20:10 |
| QuantumG | like a russian peasant | 20:10 |
| joshcryer | Nah, hydroponics but probably buried. | 20:10 |
| joshcryer | It gets 115 degrees F in the summer. | 20:10 |
| joshcryer | We were doing the numbers on a Mars settlement though. | 20:11 |
| joshcryer | You could live out the rest of your life on Mars just by taking dang MREs. | 20:11 |
| joshcryer | So for one person sure everyone just flies to Mars and "settles" with MRE "retirement plans." | 20:12 |
| joshcryer | But you aren't having kids or expanding out, so imo that's not settling, that's not "living off the land" that's not "pioneering." | 20:12 |
| QuantumG | it's insurance | 20:13 |
| QuantumG | you take a few years MREs with you so you can focus at most that much time on getting water/oxygen production going | 20:13 |
| joshcryer | So trade off, take 10 years supply of MREs and the rest in hydroponic equipment. | 20:13 |
| QuantumG | cause you *can't* take a few years worth of water/oxygen with you | 20:14 |
| joshcryer | Agreed, there. | 20:14 |
| QuantumG | so far as I'm aware, you either need resupply from Earth from the very beginning or you just have to gamble that you can get water/oxygen production going straight away | 20:15 |
| QuantumG | sending robots to get that going first is smart for that reason. | 20:15 |
| QuantumG | but if you have water/oxygen production going using remote manipulators, there's no point delaying sending humans until you get food production going because MREs really do let you take years to achieve that. | 20:17 |
| joshcryer | Sure. | 20:18 |
| QuantumG | so.. is there water desalination systems that 1) last years and 2) are available off-the-shelf right now? | 20:19 |
| QuantumG | I'm thinking those membrane hand pumps | 20:19 |
| joshcryer | Where are we going? | 20:20 |
| joshcryer | I don't think membrane hand pumps can deal with lunar regolith. | 20:20 |
| joshcryer | Could be wrong. | 20:20 |
| QuantumG | was thinking seasteading | 20:20 |
| joshcryer | (could be exaggerated notion about it's nastiness) | 20:20 |
| QuantumG | http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Fresh_water#Reverse_Osmosis | 20:22 |
| joshcryer | I wonder about the replacement cost of the membrane. | 20:30 |
| QuantumG | yeah | 20:30 |
| joshcryer | I got distracted with the thermal vacuum desalination method stuff, heh. | 20:31 |
| joshcryer | Very neat approach (I believe we discussed it before on the old newmars.com, I'd forgotten about it). | 20:31 |
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| joshcryer | I think I'll go to sleep while I still can, I was up all night last night, must've hit a kanzure mode, 'cause I couldn't sleep. Later all. :P | 20:38 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Sep 30 00:00:33 2011 | ||
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