2011-10-05.log

--- Log opened Wed Oct 05 00:00:41 2011
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StarrkI`m watching a documentary of transhumanism by Frank Theys.08:33
StarrkSomeone here told me that the guy who made it regretted doing so.08:33
StarrkI think I can see why. He let both sides speak, and those conspiracy theories probably get people really riled up with all that fearmongering.08:34
StarrkAnd some people interviewed there seem a bit shady. One guy did a long talk about how he does drugs.09:11
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strangewarpStarrk: Yeah, sadly some of the more out-there transhumanists are weird conspiracy theorists and aura-reader types, and not the self-aware doing-it-for-art kind either.09:20
SDrthat's alright. Transhumanism would have to work really hard to gain even more notoriety, than it already has09:21
SDrit's, like, AI: the first thing a discipline spinning off from TH R&D does, is to rename itself to NOT TH.09:22
StarrkMmm...09:22
StarrkWhat do you guys say about Aubrey de Grey?09:22
SDrcommendable goals, relatively good marketing (despite presentation), and, oh, about no demonstrable effects that I know of.09:23
strangewarpMy assessment is about the same as SDr's09:24
delinquentmeSDr aubrey is basically out there to fight people and start the bug09:24
SDrwhich is bad for them, for they won't get a line in my donation list.09:24
delinquentmeas soon as people snap out of this BS " i want to die" shit09:24
delinquentmetheyll then start taking responsibility for what they're capable of09:24
SDrdelinquentme, I'm well aware of that.09:24
delinquentmean idea is a very powerful thing09:25
delinquentmenot to mention the way he went about it09:25
delinquentmepissing people off .. then getting those detractors to stick foot in mouth09:25
delinquentmeinspiring.09:25
delinquentmejust saying ... but in 1000 years .. do you think people will still be living to 80?09:27
StarrkOfcourse not.09:27
delinquentmebingo.09:28
delinquentmeso tell me then09:28
delinquentmewhat is more important to you .. at this very moment09:28
delinquentmethan keeping your ass alive09:29
StarrkPerhaps I`m selfish but I`m having trouble thinking of anything like that.09:29
StarrkOfcourse I could say "saving a million people" but that is neither something I can put in practice, nor would I be honest in saying so.09:30
delinquentmeStarrk, ? you're selfish .. b ut you dont want to save your ass?09:31
StarrkI want to live, never said I didn`t.09:31
delinquentmeah ok09:32
delinquentmeStarrk, what do you "do "?09:32
StarrkI`m a 12th grade student.09:32
delinquentmedo you program?09:33
delinquentmeyou should.09:33
StarrkNo.09:33
delinquentmedo you have a cellphone :D09:33
delinquentmeever use a computer?09:33
StarrkIf I didn`t use one, I wouldn`t be here.09:33
delinquentmethere u go09:34
delinquentmeim schemeing up ways to get my little brother into engineering09:34
delinquentmequadcopters = titties09:34
StarrkYour nickname fits you well.09:34
delinquentmelol09:35
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StarrkWell, that managed to liven the place up a bit.09:44
StarrkIs it usually so that noone says a word for days here?09:44
delinquentmeStarrk, its all over the place09:45
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delinquentmelike when people are in here scheming on projects its gets pretty busy09:45
eudoxiaDidn't Aubrey achieve fame when some repoter walked into a bar and saw his beard and was all like "I've got to interview this man"09:45
StarrkIf that`s all you need, I`m going to grow a beard, too.09:47
StarrkHehee. :D09:47
eudoxiahttp://www.harkavagrant.com/history/flemingfinal.png09:48
StarrkI need my sleep.10:06
StarrkGoodbye.10:06
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kanzurethe requirements are interesting:11:33
kanzurehttp://astronauts.nasa.gov/content/AstroCandbro_sm_new.pdf11:33
kanzurethis is their ad for new astronauts11:33
kanzurei think this is for the soyuz missions because that's the only thing that makes sense..11:33
kanzure$60mil/passenger.. yikes11:33
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kanzurehi all14:04
kanzuresay things!14:04
jrayhawkNEVER14:07
superkuhCYGX-1 is still in low state.14:08
kanzurejrayhawk: you're not a team player14:12
strangewarpthings!14:29
strangewarpmust work on my music setup. @_@14:29
strangewarp<-- token fine-arts transhumanist14:29
kanzurewhat does that even mean..14:37
kanzuregoogle.com/ncr seems towin 3314:37
kanzurebfldhfoawrhoiq14:37
kanzureignore that14:38
strangewarpI do artsy things (which I'm good at) instead of engineering things (which I'm awful with), which is a bit inexcusable, but I'm enough of a hedonist to not mind. So I'm toying with synthesizers. whee!14:45
kanzurejrayhawk: what do i do with this14:46
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QuantumGJobs died16:47
CryptoQuickso sad~16:49
QuantumGdeath of a tyrant?  I'll be over here rejoicing.16:50
QuantumG"It's weird to be stirred by something like this. That said, he is more responsible than anyone else for how I view technology."   <- example of how much damage he's done to the world.16:51
CryptoQuickheh16:52
CryptoQuickhe was magical, amazing16:52
QuantumGin that he was full of tricks, sure.16:53
CryptoQuickhttp://youtu.be/-24euRgImPg16:54
CryptoQuickgood night, sweet prince16:54
jrayhawkApple design is a symptom, not a cause.16:58
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kanzurehe will be back in a few days17:03
kanzurewith the iphone517:03
kanzurethis is how marketing works, boys.17:03
jrayhawkhaha17:03
eudoxiawho cares about jobs they cracked femtotechnology http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/10/femtotechnology-ab-needles-fantastic.html17:04
eudoxiaI WANT TO BELIEVE17:04
kanzureunfortunately jobs is more powerful when dead17:06
kanzureif he left any sort of video product announcement people will eat it up 20x moer17:06
QuantumGzombie jobs17:06
kanzure*more17:06
kanzurehttp://zombiejobs.com/17:07
QuantumGdamn, taken17:08
QuantumG"The Thomas Edison of our time"  and people wonder why I hate the cunt.17:23
kanzureaha17:24
kanzureyeah it's pretty disappointing17:24
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kanzurecoming soon to a cinema near you... "iMan".17:34
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joshcryerNobody has ever had more contempt for customers than Mr. Jobs. Nobody. - Moglen17:58
eudoxiaoh god they'll make a movie about him18:01
eudoxialike with michael jackson18:01
kanzureyep :/18:01
eudoxiahe's probably alive, out there, laughing18:02
eudoxiascheming18:02
klafkahey18:02
kanzureeudoxia: "return from the dead" is a fantastic marketing approach18:02
kanzurethe second coming18:03
jrayhawkUm, Jobs is highly empowering to the sorts of customers who actually buy Apple products. That's sort of the point.18:03
klafkajobs was a pretty excellent ceo18:03
klafkaand good at seizing upon the marketability of other people's ideas18:03
jrayhawkWe have a generation of people trained to resent choice, and Jobs has been quite good at presenting extremely narrow decision trees for them to progress down that they normally wouldn't have bothered with.18:04
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klafkaidk if i agree with that at all18:04
klafka'have it your way'18:04
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jrayhawkBut blaming Jobs for the existence of his customer base is ludicrous, and it's very disappointing to see Moglen start to adopt Stallman's inability to acknowledge the mere existence of value systems other than his own.18:09
jrayhawkAs if that makes his arguments more compelling.18:09
klafkahaha18:09
QuantumGthe customers didn't exist for Steve's products.. he MADE those customers18:09
jrayhawkWith, like, genetic engineering? Man, you guys are way behind!18:10
eudoxiaNo, of course not18:10
jrayhawkKanzure: WE COULD BE RICH18:10
jrayhawkoh18:10
eudoxiaHe conjured them out of the luminiferous aether18:10
eudoxiaGet with the times man18:10
joshcryerjrayhawk, Moglen said that years ago.18:11
joshcryerHe was pissed that Apple wouldn't let you boot via USB.18:11
joshcryerNot sure if you still can't...18:11
joshcryers/pissed/annoyed18:11
klafkai've certianly had problems with it18:11
jrayhawkI think it's still screwy as hell due to Apple's very very imcomplete EFI implementation.18:12
jrayhawkincomplete18:12
jrayhawkMatthew Garrett has some blog posts about it.18:12
joshcryerThis is the speech it's from (search "contempt") for context: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Free_and_Open_Software:_Paradigm_for_a_New_Intellectual_Commons18:13
QuantumGI don't think there's anything wrong with telling customers what they want.. right up until the moment they say "that's not what I want"18:14
klafkai don't get it, if they don't want that then they go elsewhere18:15
klafkadesign is about the designer making choices18:15
joshcryerAnd then they give you a protective case to fix it.18:16
QuantumGand they do.. in droves18:16
klafkathat's why OSS guis often suck, because they aren't made by designers, they are made by hackers who think 'let's give everyone as much choice as they want'18:16
QuantumGI'm continually baffled by the fanbois who think Apple is a great success18:17
joshcryerHeh.18:17
jrayhawkuh, well, hundreds of billions of dollars might have something to do with that18:17
joshcryerI'm baffled by that statement, QuantumG.18:17
jrayhawkyou may be a bigger believer in ideas than economy, but the economy is still worth something18:18
QuantumGevery product release there's more complaints than cheers, with the hard core fans claiming that the latest unwanted gadget is the second coming.18:18
klafkaQuantumG: i feel like you  have some serious selection bias18:18
joshcryerThey're 8th in profits in the world.18:18
klafkathey're the largest company in the US18:18
klafka(market valuation)18:18
klafkaor is it nasdaq?18:18
klafka.18:19
klafkathey also rate highest in customer satisfaction18:19
klafkahttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20108336-17/apple-tops-in-customer-satisfaction-for-8th-year/18:19
QuantumGand the lowest market share IN EVERY MARKET they're in.18:19
joshcryerThey're 2nd in smartphones (woot android).18:20
joshcryerSo not sure how you're defining market here.18:20
klafkaso, ferrari's are shit because they have a small market share?18:20
klafkaor rather, not successful18:20
QuantumGheh, redefine the market to not include every other type of phone18:20
QuantumG"the smartphone market" is like 1% of the portable phone market.18:20
joshcryerFair enough (and oops it wasn't android that took them over yet, remembered wrong).18:20
jrayhawkFerrari has a history of financial tumult18:21
klafkajrayhawk: ok, porsche ?18:21
klafkastill has a low market share relative to most other car companies18:21
klafkabut has a bundle of cash18:21
jrayhawkPorsche made the single most popular car of all time...?18:21
QuantumGpeople want phones that make calls.. every new pointless feature added is .. get this .. unwanted.18:21
joshcryerQuantumG, that's why I asked what you meant by market, "smartphone market" is a subset of "mobile phone market" which is now a superset of "phone market."18:21
klafkai feel like you're trolling at this point18:22
QuantumGwhy not just say the Apple market?  Apple has 100% of the Apple market!  Wow, success!18:22
joshcryerYeah I have a freaking $15 phone from Cricket.18:22
joshcryerQuantumG, heh, but then there are subsets of the Apple market, such as apps... which funnily Apple does not own 100% of.18:23
QuantumGdon't worry, you're not the first person who has said "Apple makes products their customers want to buy!!!"18:23
joshcryerI do not believe I have said that.18:23
QuantumGwas more directing it at klafka18:24
joshcryerAhh... my bad.18:24
jrayhawkI mean, the whole market share argument is dumb, but car analogies are very hard to apply here to demonstrate that.18:24
klafkai don't know where I said that either?18:25
joshcryerTo be sure their profitibilty bugs me because I am a dirty leftist like Moglen and want tech to be free, etc, etc.18:25
klafkaare you referring to customer satisfaction?18:25
QuantumGhehe18:25
klafkawhich is absolutely not the question 'does apple make products that apple customers want to buy' but rather, 'does apple make products that their customers are satisfied with once they've bought them'18:25
QuantumGsigh18:26
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joshcryerhttp://www.stevejobsfuneral.com/18:30
joshcryerI found that while searching to see if he was getting a worm burial or what.18:31
foucistit's probably a fake site meant to make money with the ads18:31
joshcryerIt is...18:32
jrayhawkoutstanding18:32
eudoxia>Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.stevejobsfuneral.com18:32
joshcryerIt was registered in September, heh.18:32
joshcryerI wondered if he was going to do cryonics. I always wonder that about tech or science people.18:33
joshcryerStill can't belive Clarke didn't opt for it. :(18:34
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eudoxiaDidn't alcor offer cryonic preservation to Heinlein and Clarke for free?18:49
eudoxiaNot so sure about Clarke but I'm pretty sure Heinlein was offered a free ticket, even if it was likely to be a one-way trip18:49
QuantumGthe hippie version of Transhumanism  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNHnxnIOHE  three parts.. good work.18:51
klafkaoh terrence mckenna18:53
eudoxiaIs it anything like this? http://vimeo.com/2767143318:53
eudoxialol "Gamers are transhuman"18:54
eudoxia>Videogames offer us alternate universes where the player changes the reality simply by participating. This certainly has mystical underpinnings.18:54
eudoxiaI'm being trolled and I don't even care18:54
kanzurejust fyi QuantumG is in fact a troll18:55
kanzureeudoxia: "return from the dead" is a fantastic marketing approachway18:55
kanzureerjiqoirqweq18:55
kanzure*but we love him anyway18:55
kanzurejrayhawk: "apple, like most of america, is now jobless"18:55
kanzurejrayhawk: "we could be RICH" who is this we, poorboy18:56
QuantumGkanzure: why do you do that?  What justifies that claim?18:56
kanzurefirst, this claim doesn't really damage you in any way18:58
kanzuresecond, i do it because i do think your value system is trollish18:58
QuantumGwell, it does.. perhaps you're not aware that some people attack others by using that word18:58
QuantumGtell us what "troll" means to you.. and we'll see if others agree with your usage.18:59
eudoxiaIt means whatever people want it to mean at the moment19:00
eudoxiaLike "God" or "love"19:00
joshcryereudoxia, Clarke gave Cryonics a 90% chance at one point, I'm not sure how his views changed on that matter.19:00
joshcryerDeath has a way of resigning us to it.19:00
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joshcryerInstinctual coping mechanism or something.19:01
kanzureQuantumG: if it makes you feel better i do not enjoy the apple fanboyism either19:01
joshcryerYeah, I'm getting over the whole toxic shit of being pissed at shit that's stupid, I decided.19:01
joshcryerI used to bash Apple fanboys a lot.19:02
joshcryerI just posted the Moglen quote because I loves me some Moglen and I know I'm with friends (even if we disagree on some minor points). FREE THE TECH!19:02
joshcryer:P19:02
* joshcryer afks19:02
QuantumGsee.. for all the usage I've seen of the term.. calling someone a troll is a coded way of saying "we should ostracise this guy", and typically the justifications come later: oh, he's just pretending to be contra to get a rise out of people, etc.19:03
QuantumGwhen it comes to Apple, I think I have been so consistent in my criticism for years and years that anyone calling me a "troll" for expressing such simply doesn't know me.  You know me.19:04
kanzurehmm i think i was more talking about the terrence mckenna stuff19:04
kanzurebut, the comments about ferrari aren't far off19:04
QuantumGok.. all I said was that it was the more hippie version of transhumanism that I've heard.. I also said it was great work.  It's a good video, but it's too mystical for my liking.19:05
QuantumGso if you're calling me a troll for that, I don't know what definition of "troll" you're using, and considering the coded meaning, I don't understand why you're attacking me.19:06
kanzurei am not attacking you but suggesting to others that your opinion (that terrence mckenna is worht recommending in this context) isn't really standard or that its contentvalue isn't worth much in this case19:07
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QuantumGok, well, if you say "kill that sucka" and then say "I don't actually mean shoot him" when someone asks you why, then you're responsible for the result.19:09
QuantumGcalling me a troll and having people who respect your opinion ostracise me is something you have to take responsibility for.19:10
QuantumGso if you don't want people to ostracise me, or you don't want me to feel that you want people to ostracise me, then please choose another word.19:10
joshcryerhey! I don't respect his opinion! how dare you19:11
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@kanzure:p19:12
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jrayhawkmysticism has that effect on some people19:15
jrayhawkor, i guess i should say, harsh toke, dude19:15
jrayhawkQuantumG: 'troll' refers to a manipulation of a dialogue to ends ostensibly undesirable to its participants19:27
QuantumGfailure to participate in the group think eh?19:28
kanzurevim wizard magic: http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/11/screencast-custom-vim-refactorings.html19:28
jrayhawklarge portions of the things you say cannot be realistically interpreted as a genuine expressions of opinions by a functional person, largely because you are careless of your understanding of and of your expression within a dialogue.19:29
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QuantumGrandom example?19:29
kanzurei think the clacking sound is really helpful in that video19:29
kanzureby helpful i mean funny19:29
jrayhawkI'm also fairly suspicious that you have some intellectual construct that forces you to apply a binary value system to complex systems to which it is not suited.19:31
QuantumGdude, if you're going to outright insult me, could you at least give some accounts?19:32
kanzurehaha where is the insult19:32
kanzurejrayhawk is debugging what's going on, i don't think that's an insult19:33
jrayhawkActually, I've already hit the wrong side of the binary value system, so there's not much I can do here.19:33
QuantumGwell, ya see, it doesn't matter what you think is an insult.. I feel insulted and I think it is reasonable to ask for at least a few examples.19:34
-!- QuantumG [~qg@rtfm.insomnia.org] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"]19:34
kanzureso.. what's up with this character?19:41
kanzurehe liquifies every 16 hours?19:41
kanzurewhat sorta huge fucken design flaw is that19:41
jrayhawkis he supposed to be designed?19:42
kanzurejrayhawk: ds9 was authored by someone right?19:49
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jrayhawkI want to make some jibe about teaching the autistic about the concept of sleep, but I'm not sure how to make it work19:50
ybitjrayhawk: is autistism linked to sleep disorders?19:51
kanzurehe is making fun of me because i forgot how to sleep in vietnam19:53
ybito.O19:53
jrayhawkooh, good angle19:53
jrayhawkis autistism the disorder of "having too many people with autism in your life"? because if so, that probably does have some link to sleep disorders19:54
kanzureautistism19:55
kanzurehrm19:55
kanzure>> User.find(58).zipcode19:55
kanzure=> nil19:55
kanzurethis makes me angry19:55
jrayhawkzipcode really seems like it should be key rather than a method19:57
kanzureruby mixes things up like that19:57
CryptoQuickOMAGAHWD I CANT BELIEVE HES DEAD19:58
* CryptoQuick tears up19:58
* ybit collects CryptoQuick's tears19:58
CryptoQuickhow can life even go on!?19:58
ybitit doesn't, it ends tonight19:59
ybitoh right, noise19:59
* ybit idles19:59
CryptoQuickthere's just no more innovation without him19:59
ybiti innovated on your mom last night19:59
ybitright, idling19:59
CryptoQuickhe leaves apple, see what we get??? the 4S20:00
kanzureCryptoQuick: iphone 5 will be released in a week by steve20:00
CryptoQuickkanzure: I wish it was so, I really do :(20:00
kanzureit will be from beyond the grave20:00
CryptoQuickhe's probably using his iphone 5 in heaven right now :')20:00
ybitthis is a good time to promote the SENS agenda20:00
CryptoQuickybit: you idle.20:01
* ybit idle20:01
kanzurespending all that money on just one liver transplant seems dull20:01
kanzurewhat no cryonics? no billion dollar anti cancer initiative for 8 months?20:01
CryptoQuickit was probably the most important liver anyone's ever had.20:01
CryptoQuickhe should've done more, dammit!20:02
* ybit jeers from the sidelines20:02
kanzureyou are really bad at idling20:02
kanzureyou would fail at idlerpg20:03
ybit:)20:03
CryptoQuickheheheh20:03
CryptoQuickit's okay, ybit, we love you, even though you wanted steve jobs to die more than anybody20:03
* ybit eats a heath bar, drinks coffee, and reads a better textbook than his uni gives him20:05
CryptoQuickheath bars are heathy for you~20:05
ybiti'm going to really attempt idling20:07
jrayhawkhey ybit how's it going20:08
CryptoQuickwell, it's okay now because our conversation died down20:08
ybitthere was a conversation?20:08
CryptoQuickybit: where do you go to uni?20:08
ybithi jrayhawk20:08
ybitboontown college20:08
* ybit wonders if CryptoQuick googled20:09
CryptoQuickI did, but didn't find it20:09
ybit:)20:09
CryptoQuick:T20:09
kanzureybit goes to the university of "i used to be smarter than this"20:10
CryptoQuickheh20:10
ybittrue dat, true dat20:10
ybit^lingo i picked up from the students20:10
CryptoQuickI'm kinda in and out of school20:11
CryptoQuickI don't really take it that seriously, never have20:11
JayDuggerGet used to that feeling.20:11
ybitJayDugger: never!20:11
JayDugger"I used to be smarter than this" helps keep me humble in the face of "Wow, my co-workers are really stupid."20:12
ybitJayDugger: you do what?20:12
kanzurehe makes car payments for his girlfriend20:12
kanzureand sometimes hangs out in irc.20:13
JayDuggerFair enough, and time to commute. :)20:14
ybitgl!20:14
ybitcall CryptoQuick if you need him20:14
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CryptoQuickwhat why20:14
StarrkHello.20:14
CryptoQuickStarrk: goodbye, we're mourning here20:14
kanzuregoogle.com has an interesting backlink to apple.. how's that for pagerank juice20:15
StarrkSteve Jobs?20:15
* CryptoQuick whails20:15
* ybit misses his vpn20:16
* ybit considers bumming from someone20:16
kanzuredon't you have a gnusha account20:17
ybiti don't _think_ so...20:17
ybitthink after the servers went down at UT, my account went bb20:18
CryptoQuickWHAT IS WIKIPEDIA COMING TO!?!?!?20:21
ybitbye guys, hugs all around20:21
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kanzurewell that was weird20:22
CryptoQuicksorry, too slow20:23
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 06 00:00:42 2011

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