| --- Log opened Thu Feb 02 00:00:43 2012 | ||
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| rkos | looks like MIT published the cure for the common cold a year ago already http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0022572 | 04:49 |
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| rkos | http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017chql | 05:00 |
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| kanzure | hi gang | 07:04 |
| kanzure | hrm i wonder if i could "sell" anti-scraping software to elsevier | 07:23 |
| kanzure | wait i meant: sell "anti"-scraping | 07:24 |
| utopiah_ | wouldnt that be evil? | 07:26 |
| kanzure | yes, but i'd have access | 07:26 |
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| superkuh | ಠ_ಠ | 07:31 |
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| kanzure | hi mattypants_ | 08:02 |
| mattypants_ | heya! | 08:03 |
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| delinquentme | ZOMG | 10:28 |
| delinquentme | CAFFEINE | 10:28 |
| delinquentme | IM ALIVE... AGAIN! | 10:28 |
| archels | heck yeah caffeine | 10:42 |
| archels | cornucopia of cognition | 10:42 |
| -!- falmot [~root@69-196-130-213.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:12 | |
| falmot | hello | 11:12 |
| falmot | singularity is on | 11:12 |
| falmot | reality is being overhauled into language | 11:13 |
| falmot | here's something you can try to prove it without drugs | 11:13 |
| falmot | pick a recording, | 11:13 |
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| falmot | then pick a second recording | 11:13 |
| falmot | hear them both at the same time | 11:13 |
| falmot | it will tell you about a nascent alien invasion | 11:13 |
| falmot | which is almost complete now | 11:13 |
| falmot | http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/ like from here, just skip the host at the start | 11:14 |
| falmot | if you use two terence mckenna talks it's really fun and cool but to make a good proof you might want to use something drier | 11:14 |
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| falmot | it is using linguistic synchronicities like crop circles now | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | "cornucopia of cognition" | 11:22 |
| delinquentme | LOL | 11:22 |
| uniqanomaly | falmot seriously, what a junkie have to do with singularity | 11:25 |
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| @kanzure | sigh | 11:28 |
| @kanzure | uniqanomaly: falmot's the neighborhood homeless schizophrenic that has a chip implanted in his brain by aliens, etc. etc.. | 11:28 |
| @kanzure | although i really like his howto for proving it | 11:29 |
| @kanzure | "pick a recording, then pick a second recording" | 11:29 |
| @kanzure | < falmot> hear them both at the same time | 11:29 |
| @kanzure | < falmot> it will tell you about a nascent alien invasion | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | < falmot> which is almost complete now | 11:30 |
| uniqanomaly | kanzure: I just wanted him to enlighten me haha | 11:30 |
| delinquentme | lol | 11:30 |
| delinquentme | thats something | 11:30 |
| archels | Curiously, someone in ##neuroscience by the name of 'kalimojo' was on about much the same lately, being 'seeded' with chip implants in Nepal, of all places. | 11:35 |
| archels | He admitted to being treated for schizophrenia, unsurprisingly. | 11:35 |
| archels | Maybe if we bring him into contact with flamoot they will both leave us alone? | 11:36 |
| uniqanomaly | archels: or they'll create a church | 11:38 |
| uniqanomaly | and there will be spam all over the internets | 11:38 |
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| uniqanomaly | just sayin' | 11:39 |
| jrayhawk | it's neat that he's describing a such a clear-cut symptom of schizophrenia | 11:40 |
| uniqanomaly | but seriously, these guys are first grade research subjects | 11:41 |
| uniqanomaly | lol | 11:41 |
| uniqanomaly | subjects pun unintended | 11:43 |
| uniqanomaly | god I love english | 11:43 |
| uniqanomaly | :D | 11:43 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: HOW DO MY FINGERS KNOW WHAT I WANT TO TYPE? OH MY GOD | 11:44 |
| jrayhawk | tiny finger-brains | 11:45 |
| jrayhawk | i would say something about transfingerism, but that just sounds filthy | 11:46 |
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| @kanzure | jrayhawk: transplanting fingers? | 11:47 |
| @kanzure | you can make a joke about transfigurism which is the mormon sect of transhumanism | 11:47 |
| jrayhawk | huh | 11:48 |
| jrayhawk | I guess that makes sense | 11:49 |
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| eudoxia | lol so you weren't joking when you said he was a hobo schizo who thought Ben Goertzel was an alien? | 11:52 |
| eudoxia | take your meds, Durham | 11:52 |
| delinquentme | http://www.nature.com/news/questions-hang-over-red-wine-chemical-1.9970 | 11:54 |
| @kanzure | hrmm, i don't think he thinks goertzel is an ailen | 11:54 |
| @kanzure | *alien | 11:54 |
| delinquentme | stuff aboot sirtuins | 11:54 |
| eudoxia | I'm pretty sure there was something about Ben though | 11:56 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-alien | 11:57 |
| @kanzure | oops | 11:57 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens | 11:57 |
| eudoxia | >flamoot: if it's a four dimensional voxel landscape it's probably more | 11:57 |
| eudoxia | than four, to contain multiple possible worlds | 11:57 |
| eudoxia | hahaha what the fuck | 11:57 |
| eudoxia | >Scientology said they'd kill me on Halloween for a month or two but a | 11:58 |
| eudoxia | guy from the protest group of theirs died on that day instead | 11:58 |
| delinquentme | r/anime on Serial Experiments Lain: | 12:19 |
| delinquentme | "Lain is slow, and didn't really have the greatest production values, but few others have the same amount of brain hurt" | 12:19 |
| rkos | lain was nice from what little i remember | 12:22 |
| rkos | but probably need to rewatch it to better get it | 12:22 |
| rkos | however i often wonder how blended into the network we've become | 12:23 |
| delinquentme | rkos, one can argue that the entirety of the knowledge on the internet is ours when we need it : | 12:23 |
| delinquentme | :D | 12:24 |
| rkos | well that depends on how good you are at hunting for information in the internet, i don't think it comes that easily for everyone | 12:25 |
| rkos | and the internet is big, you never know how much there is that you can't imagine to look for even | 12:25 |
| delinquentme | true true | 12:26 |
| delinquentme | Mastering use of search engines in a huge thing | 12:26 |
| eudoxia | and whether or not the information consists of several partly-archived files in archive.org half of which are corrupt | 12:26 |
| delinquentme | and then knowing what is searchable | 12:26 |
| delinquentme | and of course blekko | 12:26 |
| rkos | didn't lain have some kind of theme about the information network becoming some sort of god persona? | 12:32 |
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| rkos | you see that sentient AI controlling all machines everywhere in fiction these days though | 12:33 |
| rkos | a friend of mine once joked that internet is like the prequel to life that was created afterwards to better explain the original, though i guess this doesn't apply to everyone but i pretty much grew up in the internet and i think in the future it will be more common for people to get acquainted with the world first through the internet | 12:37 |
| rkos | the real world is a very surreal place with none of the predictability of computers | 12:37 |
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| rkos | this eu project is somewhat related http://www.futurict.eu/ in some way | 12:39 |
| rkos | http://www.ga-project.eu/ http://www.robotcompanions.eu/ these two are pretty relevant for transhumanist interests too | 12:48 |
| rkos | although they're all competing for the same funding | 12:48 |
| eudoxia | god why do they even give them human faces | 12:49 |
| eudoxia | every time I see that baby-face robot I think I'm going to die in seven days | 12:50 |
| delinquentme | ^^^^ | 13:07 |
| archels | hello uncanny valley | 13:08 |
| uniqanomaly | http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hpu8TuRZEBjM30sFn8c7QvMWNjXA?docId=CNG.108b2dd2393721c4759b1eec0730b297.171 | 13:13 |
| uniqanomaly | "French court rules that it's illegally anticompetitive for Google to provide free maps : | 13:13 |
| uniqanomaly | omfg | 13:13 |
| uniqanomaly | wrong # | 13:13 |
| uniqanomaly | but this is hilarious "Online privacy labelled as suspicious and potentially terrorist activity by FBI and Dep. of Justice. " | 13:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I wonder if they'll rule next on mapquest | 13:20 |
| @kanzure | what why? i like muppetquest | 13:20 |
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| archels | er, whoops | 13:44 |
| * archels forgot about the eggs he started boiling almost 3 hours ago | 13:45 | |
| mattypants_ | I did that once | 13:49 |
| mattypants_ | other kids ate them though | 13:49 |
| mattypants_ | #collegesolutions | 13:49 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: do you know nate | 13:51 |
| mattypants_ | no | 13:51 |
| mattypants_ | nate who | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | he's also at rit | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | mccorkle | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | nmz7whatever in here | 13:51 |
| mattypants_ | for a second i was like | 13:51 |
| mattypants_ | omfg how the fuck do you know i'm at RIT | 13:51 |
| mattypants_ | and then i realized | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | so what brings you here? | 13:52 |
| delinquentme | who was the dude who downloaded shit tons of some universities locked away papers? | 13:52 |
| delinquentme | was part of reddit in the early years? | 13:52 |
| @kanzure | aaron swartz | 13:52 |
| @kanzure | he used to post to diybio | 13:53 |
| @kanzure | and run the 'getarticles' googlegroup until i assume his attorneys advised him against it | 13:53 |
| mattypants_ | i saw links to here on reddit | 13:55 |
| mattypants_ | and i was like | 13:55 |
| mattypants_ | might as well | 13:55 |
| mattypants_ | maybe i'll learn some things and not fail out | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | unlikely, | 13:57 |
| @kanzure | i advise everyone to fail out | 13:57 |
| mattypants_ | why | 13:57 |
| Stee| | people are always confusing my school with RIT | 13:57 |
| mattypants_ | what school? | 13:57 |
| Stee| | rpi | 13:57 |
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| mattypants_ | my brother almost went there | 13:58 |
| mattypants_ | how's the weather in albany? | 13:58 |
| Stee| | shit | 13:59 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: what are you studying? | 14:01 |
| mattypants_ | bioinformatics | 14:02 |
| @kanzure | undergrad? | 14:02 |
| mattypants_ | yea, first year | 14:02 |
| mattypants_ | >Spend all day studying for calc, fail bio | 14:02 |
| mattypants_ | spend all day studying for bio, fail calc | 14:02 |
| @kanzure | calculus 1? | 14:02 |
| delinquentme | anz | 14:02 |
| mattypants_ | yeah | 14:02 |
| mattypants_ | i suck at school | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | lolz we can help you with calculus 1 | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | but calculus 4+ makes me grumpy | 14:03 |
| mattypants_ | i'm smart but I never learned much for math or bio | 14:03 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, soo how hard would it be to gank all of elsivers data? | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: i've done it before.. | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: also, have some code http://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/pyscholar/blob/master/sciencedirect.py | 14:03 |
| delinquentme | so im reading this article and they're talking about how elsiver is fucking up | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | erm, that's not all of it | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | sciencedirect.py is bigger elsewhere.. hrm | 14:03 |
| delinquentme | basically they've got AMAZING software which parses human prose and converts it into actual chemical reactions | 14:04 |
| @kanzure | that's not too amazing | 14:04 |
| @kanzure | we can do that | 14:04 |
| @kanzure | we have the technology.. | 14:04 |
| delinquentme | ... anyways | 14:04 |
| Stee| | hmmmm | 14:04 |
| Stee| | calc 4 | 14:04 |
| Stee| | Diff EQ? | 14:04 |
| delinquentme | how would individuals go about getting those papers | 14:04 |
| @kanzure | Stee|: that's usually 3 | 14:04 |
| Stee| | I took difeq before multivar | 14:05 |
| Stee| | haha | 14:05 |
| delinquentme | at least setting something up to begin building a repository | 14:05 |
| Stee| | err | 14:05 |
| Stee| | rather | 14:05 |
| Stee| | other way around | 14:05 |
| Stee| | multivar then difeq | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | 4 is like, partial diff eq in complex planes because we like to fuck with you | 14:05 |
| Stee| | oh, that's not that bad (he says without having touched it in years) | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: stealing access, usually | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | i liked multivar :/ | 14:05 |
| mattypants_ | calculus isn't harrd | 14:05 |
| mattypants_ | hard* | 14:05 |
| Stee| | well, actually, control systems is actually entirely based out of that stuff, just in specific fields | 14:05 |
| mattypants_ | i just have no background in trig, geometry, algebra | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: wut | 14:06 |
| mattypants_ | because i dicked around all during high school | 14:06 |
| Stee| | left half plane of a root locus diagram is real, right half plane is imaginary | 14:06 |
| @kanzure | you went to highschool too? | 14:06 |
| @kanzure | man.. | 14:06 |
| Stee| | I got the fuck out of highschool fast, luckily | 14:06 |
| @kanzure | people need to stop doing that (high school) | 14:06 |
| mattypants_ | yeah | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: so yeah you have to get access first | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: second step is figuring out an ok algorithm for making it seem random enough | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | sequential acccess is something that a sysadmin can detect if he looks at logs | 14:07 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, what about a chrome plugin | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | or that software can easily detect | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: why would you need that if you had access | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | which whenever someone accessed it ... it would essentially dump all the data to one of our servers | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | well right now | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | they | 14:08 |
| @kanzure | because the university would get very angry at me | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | have legal shit against doing the scraping | 14:08 |
| mattypants_ | honestly if there's anything i could have done differently, i would have dropped out of high school and gone to community college | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | which is fine | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | but | 14:08 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: yep | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | if we could inject our code as an intermediary | 14:08 |
| Stee| | I did HS and CC at the same time | 14:08 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: what? | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | which chrome or other web browser sounds like a phenomenal spot | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | we wouldn't have to worry about the infringing use | 14:09 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you still need to proxy the request through an IP address that has access, like a computer on a university network | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | yea yeah | 14:09 |
| @kanzure | it's not about infringing use, it's about unauthorized access | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | but thats easy | 14:09 |
| @kanzure | yes, it's easy, but the university will *kill* you | 14:09 |
| @kanzure | that's my point.. | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | ask any scientist who wants to work on this to download it so we can begin compiling shit | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | and they're in | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | but its *not* unauthorized | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | come up with a solution to the legal problem and i'll have the software to you in 10 hours | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | the researcher is pulling data | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | who is? | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | which they are legally allowed to do | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | whoever has the plugin installed | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | lolz | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | that's hilarious | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | so, you want something like selenium | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | and then siphon off the data | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | where it physically uses the browser | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | to click on the website to download it | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | no | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | that could possibly work | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | because that violates the terms | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | the terms specify they're not allowed to automate the scraping | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | however! | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | if a researcher is simply accessing data | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | and the plugin copies that data | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | so you want a researcher to sit around all day clickign "Download pdf" links? | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | no | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | i'm just trying to understand | 14:12 |
| eudoxia | hahaha | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | only when they legit go to lookup some resource | 14:12 |
| Stee| | ugh | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | does it happen that that resource is added | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: zotero does this, but it doesn't upload the pdf | 14:12 |
| Stee| | it still counts as unauthorized copying | 14:12 |
| Stee| | actually | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | it scrapes the pdf for you, but no uploadie :( | 14:12 |
| Stee| | even if the access is legit | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | it would be a very easy thing to fix | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | Stee|: no no you could call it the 'science cloud' or some shit | 14:13 |
| Stee| | don't think that counts under fair use | 14:13 |
| Stee| | if you teach a course that 'requires' certain papers, however, you can copy them under fair use | 14:13 |
| Stee| | >_> | 14:13 |
| @kanzure | the point is, the university cares about bulk downloading only | 14:13 |
| Stee| | I was talking about legality | 14:13 |
| @kanzure | it does not care that you are sharing a paper with a person | 14:13 |
| delinquentme | pirate bay | 14:15 |
| delinquentme | they maintain all kinds of torrent info | 14:15 |
| delinquentme | meh. it gets into decentralized shit | 14:15 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: btw, most publishers add a pdf watermark | 14:15 |
| @kanzure | not just the text that says "Downloaded at xyz date" but also this other hidden pdf object element | 14:15 |
| @kanzure | i wrote some code to remove certain forms of this watermark, but i haven't extensively tested it | 14:15 |
| @kanzure | it's a gzipped/encrypted segment of the file | 14:16 |
| @kanzure | you can tell based on the software that was used to serve the pdf file (usually something from Adobe like AdobeElsevierFucker) | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | so is it more effective to go the plugin / download route | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | or just jump their systems and take tons of research | 14:16 |
| @kanzure | jumping is pretty easy | 14:17 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: see pm | 14:17 |
| delinquentme | sure | 14:17 |
| mattypants_ | what's going on and can i help any | 14:17 |
| delinquentme | also I like the idea of pirate bay having it | 14:17 |
| delinquentme | bc they'd have their awesome legal team responses | 14:17 |
| delinquentme | " Fuck you" | 14:17 |
| delinquentme | <3 | 14:17 |
| Stee| | ehhhh | 14:17 |
| @kanzure | you still need someone to seed it | 14:17 |
| Stee| | wondering if tpb is going to be extradited | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: so, what about this.. | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: call it a 'relayer' | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | a piece of software on the researcher's computer | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | mattypants_, essentially I just found out that there is a wonderful bit of text processing which can be used for automation | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | in really cool ways | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | the researcher has a social network of scientists and friends | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | they send in requests for literature | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | he manually clicks 'approve' and the scraper grabs that paper under his authorization | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | relayer relays it to the requester. | 14:19 |
| mattypants_ | so like | 14:19 |
| delinquentme | effectively it would work if we can get any kind of code between the researcher and the repository | 14:19 |
| mattypants_ | what is the point of this chat room | 14:19 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: human enhancement, world domination, biohacking, genetic therapies, nootropics | 14:19 |
| @kanzure | open hardware.. | 14:20 |
| eudoxia | human enhancement technologies | 14:20 |
| delinquentme | mattypants_, hence what were talking about here | 14:20 |
| mattypants_ | what are nootropics | 14:20 |
| delinquentme | this would effectively "codify" hand written chemical reactions allowing scientists to search ... and even more powerful: automate | 14:20 |
| delinquentme | mattypants_, smartdrugs | 14:21 |
| delinquentme | caffeine | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: caffeine is a very lame example | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | caffeine but 500x | 14:21 |
| delinquentme | adderall | 14:21 |
| mattypants_ | speaking of which | 14:21 |
| mattypants_ | how the fuck do i get an adderallscript | 14:21 |
| Stee| | I wouldn't do adderall | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: there's already a lot of products for searching chemical reactions, but nothing open source because CAS has proprietarized the data | 14:21 |
| mattypants_ | also how do you guys feel about marijuana use? | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Route%20designer%20-%20a%20retrosynthetic%20analysis%20tool%20utilizing%20automated%20retrosynthetic%20rule%20generation.pdf | 14:21 |
| mattypants_ | my roommate is a drug policy kid | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | what is drug policy | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | i mean, what is a drug policy kid | 14:22 |
| mattypants_ | so we have these discussions | 14:22 |
| mattypants_ | essentially sociology concentrating on drugs | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: you get a script by needing it.. | 14:22 |
| Stee| | I wouldn't be in the same room as someone doing MJ, but that's for security clearance reasons | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | mattypants_: sounds lame | 14:22 |
| delinquentme | CAS? | 14:22 |
| mattypants_ | it's not really a major | 14:22 |
| mattypants_ | it's more of a thing he likes to study | 14:22 |
| mattypants_ | he's an IT major | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: chemical abstract service.. i think these are the guys collecting organic reaction data | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: read the paper. | 14:22 |
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| @kanzure | you know, it would be interesting to make an 'access map' | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | let's say you get a group of researchers to join this network | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | each node on the network checks which sources it has access to | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | then based on a given social network you can say that MIT has less access than shady university of cambodia | 14:25 |
| delinquentme | oh so there are levels of access to these journals? | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | you could have some tool easily go through a list of doi numbers or read the "subscription explanation" pages on elsevier/all the others | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | yes | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | so, look at how ezproxy config works | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | you can have a login to sciencedirect, but you might not have subscriptions to each journal | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | then there's "university login" which is pre-authenticated by ip address | 14:27 |
| @kanzure | and then there's companies that have subscriptions.. companies read papers too, right? | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | btw if you wanted to be really leet about it you'd find a security vulnerability in ezproxy | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | ez proxy huh | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | ah! | 14:32 |
| delinquentme | verilah nice | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | oh i haven't shown you about ezproxy have i | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | well.. for some reason, all universities purchase this software | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | libraries use it to let students/staff access papers from home | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | it's a simple http proxy | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | people who write viruses/trojans are kind enough to send ezproxy username/passwords around on the web | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | so you can lookup logins on weird arabic and russian forums | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | sometimes libraries notice that many people are accessing an ezproxy login, so they disable it and reset the student's password | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | haha | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | this i like | 14:36 |
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| Stee| | RPI uses cisco systems vpn | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | liar https://libproxy.rpi.edu/login | 14:40 |
| Stee| | oh shit, that's true | 14:41 |
| Stee| | I usually just vpn in | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | oops, you're not lying, but i'm pretty sure you were implying that you don't use some http proxy (or possibly specifically ezproxy, i can't tell if that's ezproxy) | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | *that rpi doesn't use (not you specifically) | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | try it out, let me know if it redirects you to /home | 14:42 |
| Stee| | you're right, kanz | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | or to /menu | 14:43 |
| @kanzure | oh weird https://login.ezproxy.rit.edu/login | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_449704910100kaa0.html | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | say thank you to china | 14:48 |
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| thesnark | Hey kanzure | 14:49 |
| thesnark | What'd I miss? | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | thesnark: so, here's a silly/retarded idea | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | that delinquentme sorta suggested | 14:50 |
| delinquentme | AHAG | 14:50 |
| delinquentme | so lovely | 14:50 |
| * thesnark listens | 14:50 | |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ill pitch him | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | no i wanted to tell him the selenium version first haha | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | but go ahead | 14:50 |
| delinquentme | thesnark, basically someone has created this really sweet chemical parsing software | 14:50 |
| delinquentme | human gibberish >> codified chemical processes | 14:50 |
| thesnark | Nice. | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | erm | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | they cant run this bc some journals have software processing clauses .. so we're talking about how to circumvent that | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | how'd you get from that to scraping | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | i mean, to scraping against elsevier | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | ive heard of selenium used for browser testing | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2011/11/25/the-scandal-of-publisher-forbidden-textmining-the-vision-denied/ | 14:52 |
| * thesnark is still listening | 14:52 | |
| @kanzure | erm it's largely because the publishers don't want you to access all of their papers | 14:52 |
| delinquentme | he talkes about the elsevier being nubs | 14:52 |
| delinquentme | thesnark, basically we can take a huge step forward in not only automating chemical building | 14:53 |
| delinquentme | but also science in general | 14:53 |
| delinquentme | but we need a good place to host the docs | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | huh? | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | yes, having all papers available would be huge | 14:53 |
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| thesnark | You lost me, you want to scrape papers with chemical software? | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | but that doesn't seem specific to chemical reaction parsing | 14:53 |
| thesnark | Storage is no problem | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | thesnark: so anyway, the reason why nobody is setting up a giant gateway through which the open internet proxies requests to elsevier | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | is because the universities get enraged about it | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | because it is a legal issue, true | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | but there are lots of "file sharing" that goes on at a campus | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | *lots of "illegal things" | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | bulk downloading is frowned upon | 14:55 |
| thesnark | That fits perfectly with what I'm doing, haha | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | so i thought deliquentme was suggesting that instead of automated bulk scraping, | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | researchers "approve" access to someone for a certain paper | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | so you can imagine a few scenarios | 14:55 |
| thesnark | I'm connecting darknet software to scraping/caching | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | a) a small bit of software where the researcher clicks "approve" and the scraper works | 14:56 |
| thesnark | Dude | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | b) a scraper that is always on, but with throttling | 14:56 |
| thesnark | Already doing exactly that | 14:56 |
| thesnark | Haha | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | c) selenium to imitate the researcher physically using a fucking mouse | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | thesnark: yes i know.. you've told me | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | this is why i asked you to come in.. | 14:56 |
| Stee| | table of contents written for thesis... | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | BUT OK | 14:56 |
| delinquentme | well you can have it with that scenario or with something like a chrome plugin where they simply download it knowing that its a tool for opening science | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | thesnark: also because i've written this software before too :3 | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | just without the uploading aspects really.. just the scrapers | 14:57 |
| thesnark | Right | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: like zotero, but with an upload-to-the-cloud option | 14:57 |
| thesnark | Let me get back to you, I'm doing hw at the moment | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | zotero's javascript scrapers are pretty neat | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | but nobody has them running on a server yet | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | it's in a stupid firefox plugin :x | 14:57 |
| thesnark | Just keep talking and paste it into an email for me | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | well ive built scrapers before | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | thats no problem | 14:58 |
| thesnark | I have to go | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: it's a lot of different scrapers | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | and | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | maintaining scrapers is a pain in the ass | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | ohhh | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | zotero has one for each journal/publisher | 14:59 |
| Stee| | http://www.rpi.edu/dept/grad/docs/Nomination_MS_Comm_Form.pdf getting shit in motion | 14:59 |
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| @kanzure | delinquentme: the advantage of zotero is that they have people maintaining their scrapers | 15:00 |
| @kanzure | so if one breaks, they usually fix it within 12 hours | 15:00 |
| @kanzure | i was thinking that zotero should be hacked to run on a server, | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | and you just send the html to the server to be parsed | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | so that the templates only have to be fixed server-side, not with a plugin update to 30,000 users that will probably not update their plugin | 15:01 |
| delinquentme | hmm i guess I was imagining the parts that would break would be changes in the tags used for selecting | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | sure.. | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | that happens | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | but since they have a community already they usually have someone go and fix it out of frustration | 15:01 |
| delinquentme | that sounds like a good thing to use | 15:02 |
| @kanzure | yeh it's marketed as a bibliography tool for keeping bibtex data | 15:03 |
| @kanzure | but the auto-download-pdf thing is fantastic | 15:03 |
| @kanzure | i have some zotero libraries here: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ | 15:03 |
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| @kanzure | which include the bibtex+pdf if someone was to dump it into their zotero dir | 15:04 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, any guess as to how much file volume we're talking about? | 15:12 |
| Stee| | how many papers are you wanting to grab? | 15:12 |
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| @kanzure | delinquentme: max 4 MB per paper, usually | 15:18 |
| @kanzure | scanned pdfs are obv. bigger | 15:18 |
| @kanzure | non-scanned tend to be 1 MB or less, depending on how many photos | 15:18 |
| @kanzure | i think the estimate is 80,000 papers/year are published in the US or something | 15:19 |
| Stee| | and you don't need nearly all of them | 15:19 |
| Stee| | also, p. sure this is still illegal, no? | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | wait, this is wrong | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | "In 2009, there were 845,175 articles published and recorded in PubMed." | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | ah but that's probably global | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | "The authors used the most comprehensive citation indexes, Web of Science and Ullrichsweb, for their analysis.They estimate that 1.346 million articles were published in 23.750 journals within 2006. " | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | i think they mean 23,750 journals | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | "1.486 million peer-reviewed papers published within 2010." | 15:21 |
| delinquentme | i dont get the UK and their use of dots instead of commas | 15:37 |
| delinquentme | what do they use for decimals?? | 15:37 |
| @kanzure | the british are too proud to care about anything other than whole values | 15:41 |
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| Urchin | that's a lot of peer reviewing | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | that's only 10,000 people reviewing 100 articles each | 15:50 |
| Urchin | that's a lot of peer reviewing | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | but realistically if you review at least one article you review a lot more | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | erm, wait | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | i meant to say: realistically a single article is reviewed multiple times (probably less than 10, for most rejections) | 15:50 |
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| delinquentme | Urchin, on a per year basis? | 15:57 |
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| ybit | spanish robot movie http://www.evalapelicula.com/ | 18:35 |
| ybit | http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVA_(pel%C3%ADcula_de_2011) | 18:37 |
| ybit | queiro el torrent! | 18:37 |
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| JayDugger | I started reading NASA's Space Technology Roadmaps & Priorities. | 18:48 |
| JayDugger | It includes "Intelligent Integrated Manufacturing and Cyber Physical Systems (Manufacturing)," by which they mean watch everybody else for stuff we can use in space. | 18:49 |
| JayDugger | "This technology would enable physical components to be manufactured in space...promises improved affordability of one-off structures made from high-performance materials...applicable to all NASA space vehicles including unmanned, robotic, and human-rated" | 18:51 |
| JayDugger | It also ties in nicely with a different section on Automated Logistics Management. (Think GPS for parts.) | 18:51 |
| JayDugger | So... | 18:52 |
| JayDugger | skdb looks as if it would serve them nicely. | 18:52 |
| JayDugger | And no, they don't include nuclear pulse rockets in the report. | 18:52 |
| JayDugger | They do mention nuclear thermal rockets, but only in a half-hearted fashion. | 18:53 |
| JayDugger | So while I'd buy `skdb make -me -a nuclearpulserocket`, NASA won't. | 18:54 |
| JayDugger | And from the later chapters, it doesn't seem as if NASA will pay for skdb work at all. :( | 18:56 |
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| Juul | nice | 18:57 |
| Juul | JayDugger, I'm interested in 3D printing a lunar base | 18:57 |
| JayDugger | They do mention AFRL (Air Force Research Labs) having some manufacturing research. I don't know whether USAF piggy-backs on DARPA's work. | 18:57 |
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| Juul | but I don't know much about what kind of working is happening in that area | 18:57 |
| Juul | do you know anything about that? | 18:57 |
| JayDugger | I'm interested in a lunar colony. My wife doesn't want to move, not even in principle. | 18:58 |
| JayDugger | Not really. | 18:58 |
| Juul | ok | 18:58 |
| JayDugger | I'd start looking from Contour Crafting and other 3d printers using concrete. | 18:58 |
| JayDugger | I'd continue by research regolith simulation. | 18:58 |
| Juul | seems to me that a big freznel lense (or multiple) would be light enough to send to the moon cheaply | 18:59 |
| Juul | and using electrostatic soil separation and sunlight for melting, would be the best way to go | 18:59 |
| JayDugger | Then I'd want to know if you could process regolith into something usable in a 3d printer sans water. | 18:59 |
| JayDugger | Yeah...let me think. | 18:59 |
| Juul | yeah i've done some homework on lunar soil | 18:59 |
| yashgaroth | I thought they found water at the north pole or something | 19:00 |
| JayDugger | Did you find anything in the '77 Space Settlement Study, or in Freitas's self-replication work from the '80s? | 19:00 |
| Juul | there's a lot of titanium in the lunar soil in some places | 19:00 |
| Juul | JayDugger, i do not know about this. thanks! | 19:00 |
| Juul | do you have links perhaps? | 19:00 |
| JayDugger | The NASA document has a lot of interest in multifunctional structures, which the Fresnel lens you mention might fit. | 19:01 |
| JayDugger | Let me look... | 19:01 |
| Juul | it would likely be possible to build new fresnel lenses | 19:01 |
| Juul | using polished metal from the lunar soil | 19:02 |
| Juul | so the first printer could probably build new printers | 19:02 |
| Juul | excepting the electronics | 19:02 |
| Juul | cool thanks! | 19:02 |
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| JayDugger | http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/index.html | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | Haven't link-checked that... | 19:04 |
| Juul | ok thanks | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/AASMIndex.html | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | NEOs, not Luna http://alglobus.net/NASAwork/papers/AsterAnts/paper.html | 19:06 |
| JayDugger | Lunar stereolithography http://www.freeluna.com/mdmfg.htm | 19:07 |
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| Juul | coool | 19:24 |
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| Stee| | kanzure, you around? | 23:05 |
| @kanzure | o | 23:07 |
| @kanzure | no | 23:07 |
| Stee| | know anywhere that detailed the development of noopept? | 23:09 |
| Stee| | russian papers? | 23:09 |
| @kanzure | not off hand | 23:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | В России, бумаги находят Вас! | 23:11 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Feb 03 00:00:45 2012 | ||
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