| --- Log opened Sat Feb 04 00:00:07 2012 | ||
| --- Day changed Sat Feb 04 2012 | ||
| -!- Mokbortolan_ is now known as Mokstar | 00:00 | |
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| falmot_ | i saw two ufo's last night | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| falmot_ | i summoned them with terence mckenna recordings | 00:12 |
| falmot_ | when i shut the audio off two craft appeared | 00:12 |
| falmot_ | the first was a light in the distance obscured by a tree that seemed to flicker then moved behind a building | 00:13 |
| falmot_ | ahh then a big one went over my head | 00:13 |
| falmot_ | a craft with a shape reminding me of an airplane | 00:13 |
| falmot_ | but with three big lights, one green two white | 00:13 |
| yashgaroth | so falmot have you ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder | 00:13 |
| falmot_ | when i looked at it the third white light came on | 00:13 |
| falmot_ | yashgaroth: what is this | 00:13 |
| falmot_ | i watched the airplane shape one fly away for a really long time | 00:14 |
| yashgaroth | you know, schizophrenia or similar | 00:14 |
| falmot_ | yashgaroth: eh no | 00:14 |
| yashgaroth | I recommend you visit a qualified psychologist | 00:14 |
| falmot_ | who are you supposed to be | 00:14 |
| falmot_ | i just summoned super powers | 00:14 |
| Mokstar | "it might have been the PCP, but I swear I was abducted by aliens." | 00:14 |
| falmot_ | anyone can do this now | 00:14 |
| falmot_ | reality is being overhauled into vr by alien god-likes | 00:15 |
| yashgaroth | I'm an alien | 00:15 |
| falmot_ | they're the ones in control | 00:15 |
| falmot_ | mokstar, i think the abductions have stopped | 00:15 |
| yashgaroth | bro I'm totally an alien | 00:15 |
| falmot_ | yashgaroth: get lost ok | 00:15 |
| yashgaroth | my home planet is too far away | 00:15 |
| * Mokstar demands yashgaroth's papers. | 00:15 | |
| yashgaroth | we are beyond your silly human 'papers' | 00:16 |
| falmot_ | it will be done on dec 21 i think the 2012 prophecy is like a landing strip aliens are using | 00:16 |
| Mokstar | No papers!? | 00:16 |
| falmot_ | at that time control will be totally transferred | 00:16 |
| Mokstar | No | 00:16 |
| falmot_ | to these extra galactic super powers | 00:16 |
| falmot_ | well maybe it is our galaxy | 00:16 |
| Mokstar | that's usually July 5 | 00:16 |
| Mokstar | every year | 00:16 |
| falmot_ | i dont know | 00:17 |
| falmot_ | i emailed the singularity list about the ufos i saw | 00:17 |
| Mokstar | but we usually get saved by an icon of pure salesmanship | 00:17 |
| falmot_ | and AGI | 00:17 |
| falmot_ | because i work with AI | 00:17 |
| yashgaroth | so, is ben goertzel an alien or just a puppet of their regime? | 00:17 |
| falmot_ | i thought maybe other AI people would be seeing ufo's | 00:17 |
| falmot_ | especially as we approach the attractor at the end of time | 00:17 |
| falmot_ | ben goertzel? | 00:18 |
| yashgaroth | yeah I hear you like him | 00:18 |
| falmot_ | yeah | 00:18 |
| falmot_ | well | 00:18 |
| yashgaroth | I mean, are you sure he's not just a 'sperg? | 00:18 |
| falmot_ | http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html my soft | 00:19 |
| falmot_ | software | 00:19 |
| Mokstar | everybody has ass burgers | 00:19 |
| falmot_ | waht | 00:19 |
| falmot_ | oh aspergers | 00:20 |
| falmot_ | i dont know how i did it | 00:20 |
| Mokstar | http://i.imgur.com/7G2lS.jpg | 00:21 |
| falmot_ | i have a brain implant | 00:21 |
| falmot_ | from scientologists | 00:21 |
| falmot_ | they're evil people or evil aliens of low power | 00:21 |
| falmot_ | with brain implants | 00:21 |
| falmot_ | grr | 00:21 |
| falmot_ | i think thats one reason aliens are interested in me now, my paini | 00:22 |
| falmot_ | i am finding synchronicities in language and math | 00:22 |
| falmot_ | and i have seen ufos now | 00:22 |
| yashgaroth | look just try taking some thorazine | 00:22 |
| falmot_ | bad for you yashgaroth | 00:22 |
| yashgaroth | yeah, luckily I don't need any | 00:22 |
| falmot_ | no-one needs thorazine it hurts people not helps them | 00:23 |
| falmot_ | lsd is a therapeutic drug it's a tonic | 00:23 |
| falmot_ | it makes you better when you're not sick | 00:23 |
| falmot_ | i just want my brain implant to go away | 00:23 |
| falmot_ | it's either for advocating psychedelic drugs, or telling peoeple how to talk to aliens | 00:23 |
| falmot_ | which you do by taking psychedelic drugs x_x | 00:24 |
| yashgaroth | oh there are ways to remove the implants | 00:24 |
| falmot_ | i want to find some kind of a clinic, yashgaroth | 00:24 |
| klafka | i knew that this was you! | 00:24 |
| klafka | the critterdrug dude | 00:24 |
| falmot_ | yeah how are you | 00:24 |
| klafka | i'm fine | 00:24 |
| yashgaroth | there are clinics, but they're run by aliens too | 00:24 |
| falmot_ | have you tried critterdrug klafka | 00:24 |
| klafka | i've read the site | 00:25 |
| klafka | i've just seen you in here and various channels on irc | 00:25 |
| falmot_ | i have some food eating infovores in a 4x4 world at ad 200 right now because i wanted to test making a species in it finally | 00:25 |
| falmot_ | i mostly work with my little robots at > ad 8000 | 00:25 |
| falmot_ | yashgaroth: i would even use an alien clinic, ok | 00:25 |
| yashgaroth | :D | 00:27 |
| falmot_ | brbs | 00:33 |
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| utopiah_ | Jarzynski on Irreversibility and the Second Law of Thermodynamics at the Nanoscale http://www.santafe.edu/research/videos/play/?id=e5118431-1fb4-4741-802e-0f0402245976 | 04:36 |
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| delinquentme | good morning ##HPLUS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMWi7CLoZ2Q | 05:49 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, u awake yet?? | 06:35 |
| delinquentme | Mariu, howdah! | 06:35 |
| Mariu | hey delinquentme | 06:35 |
| delinquentme | what're you getting into atm? | 06:35 |
| Mariu | nothing much | 06:36 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: nope | 06:44 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: what's the right permaban for falmot | 06:44 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, YESSSS I've been hoping to be jacked in and process while sleeping! | 06:44 |
| delinquentme | Mariu, you want a hot research paper? | 06:45 |
| delinquentme | also kanzure i should send this to you | 06:45 |
| delinquentme | "Detecting Novel Associations | 06:45 |
| delinquentme | in Large Data Sets | 06:45 |
| delinquentme | " | 06:45 |
| delinquentme | derpta derp | 06:52 |
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| @kanzure | just upload it somewhere | 06:55 |
| @kanzure | dcc is lame | 06:55 |
| @kanzure | sand to cpu http://umumble.com/blogs/company_intel/385/ | 06:58 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, you've got the repo! | 07:03 |
| delinquentme | really sweettt! | 07:05 |
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| @kanzure | repo? | 07:13 |
| Mariu | delinquentme, sure | 07:17 |
| delinquentme | kanzure yeah youve got all the papers :D | 07:18 |
| delinquentme | Mariu, its math and statistics heavy :D you down? | 07:18 |
| Mariu | I'm always down | 07:18 |
| Mariu | xD | 07:18 |
| Mariu | thanks, don't get your hopes too much though | 07:20 |
| delinquentme | :D | 07:21 |
| delinquentme | http://www.millipore.com/life_sciences/flx4/scepter_muse&cid=BIOS-D-SCIE-1001-1202-DS&tab1=3#tab1=3:tab2=5 | 07:21 |
| delinquentme | someone *gets* UI design | 07:22 |
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| klafka | hahaha\ | 09:26 |
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| --- Log opened Sat Feb 04 09:59:06 2012 | ||
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware http://gnusha.org/logs/ http://bit.ly/diybionews2 http://gadaprize.org/ http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing | 09:59 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sun Jan 8 13:52:22 2012] | 09:59 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 09:59 | |
| [ _sol_ ] [ dsp_ ] [ JayDugger ] [ roksprok ] | 09:59 | |
| [ AlonzoTG ] [ elmom ] [ jrayhawk ] [ saurik ] | 09:59 | |
| [ archels ] [ epitron ] [ klafka ] [ Stee| ] | 09:59 | |
| [ audy ] [ eudoxia ] [ marainein ] [ strages_home] | 09:59 | |
| [ augur ] [ falmot_ ] [ Mariu ] [ strages_shop] | 09:59 | |
| [ bkero ] [ ferrouswheel ] [ Mokbortolan_] [ strages_work] | 09:59 | |
| [ Charlie_ ] [ foucist ] [ nchaimov ] [ strangewarp ] | 09:59 | |
| [ CIA-126 ] [ gedankenstuecke] [ nuba ] [ superkuh ] | 09:59 | |
| [ Coornail ] [ gnusha ] [ Omega ] [ uniqanomaly ] | 09:59 | |
| [ delinquentme] [ Guest46680 ] [ pasky ] [ Urchin ] | 09:59 | |
| [ devrandom ] [ Helleshin ] [ qnm ] [ utopiah_ ] | 09:59 | |
| [ drazak ] [ ivan` ] [ rkos ] [ ziyadb ] | 09:59 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 48 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 48 normal] | 09:59 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 09:59 | |
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| kanzure | hi ybit | 10:10 |
| ybit | hi | 10:11 |
| ybit | no idea what happened | 10:12 |
| ybit | server went down or something | 10:12 |
| ybit | ping jrayhawk | 10:12 |
| kanzure | jules or joe said they would be futzing withthings | 10:12 |
| ybit | ah | 10:12 |
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| --- Log opened Sat Feb 04 10:29:56 2012 | ||
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware http://gnusha.org/logs/ http://bit.ly/diybionews2 http://gadaprize.org/ http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing | 10:30 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sun Jan 8 13:52:13 2012] | 10:30 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 10:30 | |
| [ _sol_ ] [ elmom ] [ kanzure- ] [ Stee| ] | 10:30 | |
| [ AlonzoTG ] [ epitron ] [ klafka ] [ strages_home] | 10:30 | |
| [ archels ] [ eudoxia ] [ marainein ] [ strages_shop] | 10:30 | |
| [ audy ] [ falmot_ ] [ Mariu ] [ strages_work] | 10:30 | |
| [ augur ] [ ferrouswheel ] [ Mokbortolan_] [ strangewarp ] | 10:30 | |
| [ bkero ] [ foucist ] [ nchaimov ] [ superkuh ] | 10:30 | |
| [ Charlie_ ] [ gedankenstuecke] [ nuba ] [ uniqanomaly ] | 10:30 | |
| [ CIA-126 ] [ gnusha ] [ Omega ] [ Urchin ] | 10:30 | |
| [ Coornail ] [ Guest46680 ] [ pasky ] [ utopiah_ ] | 10:30 | |
| [ delinquentme] [ Helleshin ] [ qnm ] [ ziyadb ] | 10:30 | |
| [ devrandom ] [ ivan` ] [ rkos ] | 10:30 | |
| [ drazak ] [ JayDugger ] [ roksprok ] | 10:30 | |
| [ dsp_ ] [ jrayhawk ] [ saurik ] | 10:30 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 49 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 49 normal] | 10:30 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 10:30 | |
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| klafka | gaah | 10:31 |
| kanzure | dfkldkaksdkfjasiofjioqwjioq | 10:31 |
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| jrayhawk | Yeah, sorry, I did a kernel upgrade to get rid of a really bad privilege escalation, but the metapackage was pointing at the wrong place | 10:39 |
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| strangewarp | [01:15] <falmot_> reality is being overhauled into vr by alien god-likes | 11:34 |
| strangewarp | Well, now I feel totally awkward for indepentendly thinking that such a thing may have already happened. Except, you know, without all the UFO stuff. | 11:35 |
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| eudoxia | reality is just a historical simulation bruh | 11:38 |
| eudoxia | maybe we're already in the Omega Point and we're just simulations bruh | 11:38 |
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| strangewarp | eudoxia: No love for the simulist bloc? :( | 11:49 |
| eudoxia | I actually kind of like the simulation hypothesis | 11:50 |
| eudoxia | just not the Tiplerist religious pseudoscience | 11:50 |
| kanzure- | this is why the world keeps getting smaller | 11:50 |
| kanzure- | the simulation is deleting people and making everything more compressed | 11:50 |
| kanzure- | thus increasing the number of coincidences | 11:50 |
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| eudoxia | yeah, all those other computations were alloted to weather simulators | 11:51 |
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| Mariu | lol | 11:53 |
| strangewarp | Hmmm, let me read up on this Tiplerist thing.. | 11:54 |
| strangewarp | Oh, good. Omega Point is bullpucky, and very different from what I had in mind. | 11:56 |
| eudoxia | Just watch this talk and try to keep a straight face: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNkuJvhyfP0 | 11:57 |
| strangewarp | The closest bit would be the "resimulate all possible minds" thing, which may ultimately have to be scaled back to "resimulate all sapient minds" or "resimulate all sapient minds we can reconstruct from lossy information".. | 12:02 |
| eudoxia | I wonder now, how many .pdb files could you generate containing every possible arrangement of looking-rather-like-neural-structures matter in the volume of a brain? And how much space would they occupy? | 12:03 |
| eudoxia | to generate every possible permutation of every possible brain | 12:03 |
| strangewarp | Obviously what I'm talking about is a form of theology (albeit applied theology), so the safe assumption ought to be that it wouldn't occur at all.. | 12:04 |
| eudoxia | Of course | 12:04 |
| eudoxia | There's this pseudo-h+ thing going around, the Turing Church, and they talk about the resurrection of non-preserved persons, something to do with 'quantum archaeology' | 12:05 |
| strangewarp | ...Urgh | 12:05 |
| eudoxia | I don't know what that is, but I guess it's above the credibility level of Deepak Chopra. but BARELY | 12:05 |
| strangewarp | It would be /nice/ if it turned out that there's some way to losslessly access the full data of the many-worlds block universe, but we should assume such a thing is impossible unless there is some oddness that might overthrow such an assumption | 12:06 |
| strangewarp | Which is why I presently regard the whole resimulate-infinite-minds thing as theology.. | 12:07 |
| eudoxia | what do you mean? accessing the data of every iteration/frame/step of the universe? | 12:07 |
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| strangewarp | Accessing all states of all possible universes, yes | 12:08 |
| eudoxia | Iin this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics! | 12:08 |
| strangewarp | Ha, yeah | 12:08 |
| eudoxia | Disobeying the laws of thermodynamics, that's a paddlin' | 12:09 |
| kanzure- | in this house we don't discuss MWI | 12:12 |
| strangewarp | That was beside the point! Gosh | 12:13 |
| eudoxia | We are still free to discuss Omega Point cosmology though right? | 12:14 |
| Mariu | I have to split, later everyone | 12:14 |
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| kanzure- | http://blog.makezine.com/2012/01/05/the-tesla-valve-one-way-flow-with-no-moving-parts/ | 14:33 |
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| kanzure | so, given how important science is | 15:53 |
| kanzure | well, i guess that's not a given | 15:53 |
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| kanzure | it should be explicitly stated that science in our civilization is very important | 15:53 |
| kanzure | and that we have a good deal of work put into that particular pursuit | 15:53 |
| kanzure | knowing this, is it really OK for us to be hosting all of that with private companies | 15:54 |
| kanzure | obviously people agree that it is ok to share the papers, and sometimes not pay for the papers | 15:54 |
| kanzure | many in here would even agree to do scraping | 15:54 |
| kanzure | if it's important enough to scrape, | 15:54 |
| kanzure | is it important enough to go commando and physically steal their servers straight up? | 15:55 |
| kanzure | is it important enough to organize a social engineering team to go infiltrate their ranks? | 15:55 |
| kanzure | where's the line? no line? | 15:55 |
| kanzure | it's def. a personal question | 15:55 |
| kanzure | but maybe i can encourage someone to go do it | 15:55 |
| yashgaroth | stealing a hard drive doesn't get you continued access to future research | 15:56 |
| yashgaroth | so I'd say social engineering | 15:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.info.sciverse.com/sciencedirect/buying/primary_license_options | 15:58 |
| kanzure | hah | 15:58 |
| kanzure | "concurrent user charges" | 15:58 |
| kanzure | actually | 16:01 |
| kanzure | here's a weird idea | 16:02 |
| kanzure | so let's say you had a suite of scrapers (like zotero has) | 16:02 |
| kanzure | researchers on this p2p network will approve paper requests if they have access | 16:02 |
| kanzure | and it would scrape the pdf for the requester, using this person's authentication | 16:02 |
| kanzure | this p2p software would also be the "main way" to access a paper for that researcher | 16:02 |
| kanzure | so instead of going to the elsevier site to look up a paper, you go throug hthis network | 16:03 |
| delinquentme | howdy kanzure ! | 16:03 |
| kanzure | they will do this because the network has better derivalability than elsevier (which blocks you sometimes) | 16:03 |
| * delinquentme reading... | 16:03 | |
| kanzure | now, this software will either (1) use the current researcher's credis to download the pdf | 16:03 |
| kanzure | or (2) make a request over the network (possibly to a cached copy) | 16:03 |
| kanzure | *to get a cached copy | 16:03 |
| kanzure | it would even be such that, the cached copy is only used if it was by someone in that university's network (ha) | 16:04 |
| kanzure | anyway, the point is that over time this will /replace/ elsevier | 16:04 |
| kanzure | because this interface is more reliably delivering paper access | 16:04 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, realize that people wont want to do additional work | 16:04 |
| kanzure | they would never have to physically go to elsevier's site | 16:04 |
| kanzure | yes i agree | 16:04 |
| yashgaroth | your weak point will end up being the researcher, if their uni or the publisher start asking questions | 16:04 |
| kanzure | true | 16:04 |
| delinquentme | while it sounds like a nice thing to get a paper via some alt network I truly think the browser plugin is the most transparent for the end user | 16:04 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: who said this isn't a browser plugin?? | 16:05 |
| delinquentme | ah | 16:05 |
| delinquentme | well! yashgaroth in response to that | 16:05 |
| Stee| | holy shit, my arms are so tired I'm having trouble typing | 16:05 |
| delinquentme | elsiver would never know | 16:05 |
| kanzure | elsevier would not be able to discriminate between a researcher clickign on their site | 16:05 |
| delinquentme | for all they can observe it is a perfectly typical paper / researcher interaction | 16:05 |
| kanzure | versus a scraper that has the same user agent and interaction pattern | 16:05 |
| delinquentme | true | 16:05 |
| yashgaroth | don't they log these things for suspicious activit? i.e. accessing 500 papers outside of their field | 16:05 |
| delinquentme | but they explicitly forbid it | 16:06 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: nothing like that, but they do monitor quantity for sure | 16:06 |
| kanzure | so, it's a little fuzzy if this would be useful | 16:07 |
| kanzure | because over time you could imagine nobody would ever physically click over to elsevier/x publisher | 16:07 |
| delinquentme | chrome plugins are written in JS | 16:07 |
| kanzure | so what then? you assign "journals" to new editors? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | i mean a journal is just a currated selection of papers | 16:07 |
| kanzure | possibly with formatting standards and stuff | 16:07 |
| yashgaroth | journal performs the peer review, no? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | yes usually | 16:07 |
| kanzure | that's true | 16:08 |
| Stee| | I hate ieee's latex format | 16:08 |
| Stee| | but that's cause I'm terrible at LaTeX | 16:08 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: the theory i was trying to communicate was that if elsevier's only value add is hosting, then it should be possible to kill them by first replacing the user interface whereby people currently interact with that company | 16:09 |
| kanzure | and that the p2p software i just described would be sufficient to do that (given that elsevier only does hosting) | 16:09 |
| kanzure | now, as you point out, they do actually a bit more than just hosting | 16:09 |
| kanzure | so i'm not sure that would be a useful scheme to implement | 16:09 |
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| kanzure | peer reviewers work for free a lot of the time | 16:10 |
| kanzure | publishers don't always pay them | 16:10 |
| kanzure | so it's conceivable that you could convince them to "switch" to be on this new platform | 16:10 |
| kanzure | maybe the other way to do this is to just assume that journals will die off anyway | 16:11 |
| kanzure | and new curration methods will be more popular, like a professor that just publishes a monthly list of papers that go together | 16:11 |
| kanzure | what's that one peer review site? | 16:12 |
| kanzure | peerscribe? | 16:12 |
| yashgaroth | what's the problem with a half-dozen undergrads with library access? even if it's manual and they get a stipend for their time | 16:13 |
| kanzure | stipend? | 16:13 |
| yashgaroth | you know, for physically pulling the articles and sending them out | 16:13 |
| yashgaroth | companies often pay a student a fee for access | 16:14 |
| kanzure | wut | 16:14 |
| yashgaroth | not strictly legal, but many do that | 16:14 |
| kanzure | i haven't seen this before | 16:14 |
| kanzure | how'd you come across this? | 16:14 |
| yashgaroth | prefer not to say | 16:14 |
| kanzure | is this a prevalent practice to your knowledge? | 16:15 |
| kanzure | or you just saw it once heh | 16:15 |
| yashgaroth | um no comment | 16:15 |
| kanzure | yeah, i'm not sure why nobody has published complete dumps of these publisher's contents | 16:16 |
| yashgaroth | aside from watermarks? | 16:18 |
| kanzure | i'm not convinced anyone knows about the baked-in watermarks (besides the visible ones; ieee is theo nly one that seems to show a visible ip watermark) | 16:18 |
| kanzure | *the only | 16:18 |
| kanzure | hrm | 16:19 |
| kanzure | what if we did the scraping in a single strike | 16:19 |
| kanzure | get 10k people using the same scraping software, assign id lists for each paper | 16:19 |
| kanzure | then have them all do the blitz on the same day | 16:19 |
| kanzure | this wouldn't be a long-term solution | 16:20 |
| kanzure | but loic shows that people are willing to do it :p | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | maybs | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | but also if you just broke their systems you totally could download it w/o their knowledge .. right? | 16:21 |
| kanzure | broke into their systems? sure.. | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | thats a question of how secure they are | 16:23 |
| delinquentme | or we could just hire someone :P | 16:23 |
| kanzure | hah http://lists.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0603&L=SUSPROXY-L&T=0&P=409 | 16:24 |
| kanzure | "This week on the EZProxy list there has been a new awareness, | 16:24 |
| kanzure | amazement, | 16:24 |
| kanzure | and furor about the vulnerability of EZproxy to userid/password login | 16:24 |
| kanzure | hacking. Apparently there are those worldwide who believe that if | 16:24 |
| kanzure | resources are available through EZproxy then they're free. There are | 16:24 |
| kanzure | websites devoted to providing userids/passwords to specific EZproxy | 16:24 |
| kanzure | instances. The current attacks appear to be mainly from China. | 16:24 |
| delinquentme | sooo | 16:25 |
| delinquentme | hire some chinese guy? | 16:25 |
| delinquentme | :D | 16:25 |
| kanzure | erm.. no.. they post it online | 16:26 |
| kanzure | http://www.oclc.org/ezproxy/default.htm | 16:26 |
| delinquentme | yoouuu want ot run a test to see how much you can download before getting kicked? | 16:27 |
| kanzure | hah | 16:27 |
| kanzure | "A hosted version of EZproxy is available. Libraries who subscribe to the hosted version are automatically and seamlessly upgraded with each new release of the service. They also enjoy 24 x 7 x 365 support for off-site authentication of electronic content with no servers or IT infrastructure required. The EZproxy hosted version is currently available in the US, and is planned for wider availability going forward." | 16:27 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: i have a reasonable estimate | 16:27 |
| kanzure | it's between "most" and "all of it" | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | lolol | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | like i was wondering that | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | i wonder how much bandwidth monitoring a multimillion dollar service has :D | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | "Freenet" was suggested for hosting | 16:28 |
| yashgaroth | how about compromising a physical library computer, one of those that you can just sit at and access articles through the library system | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | but you're thinking selenium? orrrr? | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | well im near 2 universities | 16:29 |
| kanzure | i don't think that's an issue yashgaroth | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | both pitt and CMU | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | I also know a librarian | 16:29 |
| kanzure | if one of you has a server to run this on, let me know | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | :P | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | I have a comp I could prob set it up on | 16:30 |
| delinquentme | but amazon? | 16:31 |
| delinquentme | also the other computer is associated w my everyday IP | 16:31 |
| delinquentme | so we should at least proxy it | 16:31 |
| kanzure | i don't think you understand how proxies work | 16:32 |
| kanzure | the download still occurs from the authenticated machine | 16:32 |
| delinquentme | yeah but then the more proxies = more secure ? | 16:32 |
| kanzure | not if they know who's computer it is | 16:32 |
| delinquentme | A = our machine B = the authenticated machine C = publishing company | 16:33 |
| delinquentme | describe w letters plz | 16:33 |
| delinquentme | A proxies into B ... B downloads from C | 16:33 |
| kanzure | for instance, the sysadmins on campus usually have mac addresses, ip addresses, etc. mapped to security cameras | 16:33 |
| delinquentme | kk | 16:34 |
| kanzure | so for instance, if it's in a lab somewhere | 16:34 |
| kanzure | you'll get caught and the prof will get caught; or just the prof will get caught | 16:34 |
| kanzure | caught/blamed | 16:34 |
| yashgaroth | but most uni libraries have publicly accessible terminals | 16:35 |
| delinquentme | arent there just available proxies? | 16:35 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: that get wiped when you log off | 16:35 |
| delinquentme | like cant we get any computer to proxy to those and then authenticate w those? | 16:35 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: also, they don't generally let you install anything | 16:35 |
| delinquentme | like reddit darknet kids prob have botnets we can proxy w | 16:35 |
| yashgaroth | that's just a software issue though | 16:36 |
| kanzure | i don't think scraping the entirety of scientific knowledge in plain sight in a public library is a smart idea | 16:36 |
| yashgaroth | you won't physically be there while it's scraping though | 16:36 |
| kanzure | do you know how university libraries work? | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | in what sense | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | wait | 16:37 |
| kanzure | from what i can tell, they force log off anyone not physically sitting there | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | why are you guys worrying about this? | 16:37 |
| kanzure | worrying about getting caught? | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | you're definitely trying to get someone w this high level access | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | the ones at UW were just open and logged in already, maybe they get wiped every night or something | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | no i mean if you've just got a login | 16:38 |
| delinquentme | what more do you need? | 16:38 |
| delinquentme | also | 16:38 |
| kanzure | why would you want to kill your mule? | 16:38 |
| delinquentme | scalability | 16:38 |
| kanzure | in credit card schemes these guys are called mules | 16:38 |
| kanzure | you don't kill your mule :| | 16:38 |
| delinquentme | this would only work for elsiever | 16:38 |
| yashgaroth | as long as they have plausible deniability | 16:38 |
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| yashgaroth | 'whoops yeah i downloaded porn.exe it must've let the chinese hackers in to steal my school login' | 16:39 |
| delinquentme | lolol | 16:39 |
| delinquentme | so we've decided to heavy hand this? | 16:40 |
| yashgaroth | admittedly that only works once, but we'd have to see how many articles you can get without raising suspicions | 16:40 |
| delinquentme | and just host offshore? | 16:40 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: you could do the blitz while they are sleeping | 16:41 |
| delinquentme | true | 16:41 |
| kanzure | they probably don't have midnight alarm bells at the publishing sites | 16:41 |
| delinquentme | late at night is just the courteous thing to do | 16:41 |
| kanzure | no i mean the publishers.. | 16:41 |
| kanzure | it's not like they have devops people monitoring logs 24/7 | 16:41 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ | 16:41 |
| kanzure | it should definitely be a botnet structure | 16:42 |
| kanzure | if individual users get to pick what to scrape, it won't work | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | do we have access to something like that | 16:42 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | kk | 16:42 |
| kanzure | *cough* | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | good | 16:42 |
| uniqanomaly | metasploit, haxoring into computers in libraries, setting up downloading software which is uploading stuff somewhere and download upgrades | 16:42 |
| uniqanomaly | :< | 16:43 |
| kanzure | uniqanomaly: again i'm just not convinced libraries are that insecure | 16:43 |
| kanzure | you know, | 16:43 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: this should be an iphone app | 16:43 |
| delinquentme | thats nice ive never designed one | 16:43 |
| yashgaroth | there's usually a few terminals that are open to the public, and the employees are mostly undergrads | 16:43 |
| uniqanomaly | yeah library computers are like whores | 16:43 |
| kanzure | god i hate myself for suggesting that | 16:43 |
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| kanzure | lots of college students use iphones | 16:43 |
| yashgaroth | android app* | 16:43 |
| kanzure | ok or android | 16:43 |
| kanzure | but when i was in school, nobody had androids :\ | 16:44 |
| kanzure | actually, | 16:44 |
| kanzure | there's no reason to do the "scraping" | 16:44 |
| kanzure | on the mule hardware | 16:44 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 16:44 |
| kanzure | just be an http proxy | 16:44 |
| delinquentme | if were going to just *DO* it | 16:44 |
| kanzure | and let the server coordinate itself | 16:44 |
| delinquentme | permission aside | 16:44 |
| delinquentme | we can skip much of the pleasantries | 16:44 |
| delinquentme | which greatly simplifies shit | 16:45 |
| kanzure | bandwidth would increase as more users join | 16:45 |
| kanzure | it's actually sort of reasonable to do it all at once | 16:45 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ | 16:45 |
| kanzure | but someone will be axed :/ | 16:45 |
| delinquentme | what you mean? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | the owner of the terminal | 16:45 |
| kanzure | of the computer.. | 16:45 |
| yashgaroth | what, a whole university? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | no i mean if you get one person in the dorms to do it, the university /will/ clamp down on him | 16:46 |
| delinquentme | the thing is if its some random proxy ... what use does some 12 year old have w accessing these sites? | 16:46 |
| kanzure | in the "use only one proxy" scheme. | 16:46 |
| kanzure | *use only one computer in their network | 16:46 |
| delinquentme | wait. | 16:46 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, we've got the logins | 16:46 |
| kanzure | no we don't | 16:46 |
| delinquentme | we dont? | 16:46 |
| kanzure | those ezproxy logins are broken most of the time | 16:46 |
| delinquentme | i thought the chinese sites are littered w em? | 16:46 |
| kanzure | meh | 16:47 |
| delinquentme | we only need 1 though right? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | no | 16:47 |
| delinquentme | get 1 working one ... use it to test out crawling mechanisms | 16:47 |
| kanzure | since each university has different subscriptions, etc. etc. | 16:47 |
| kanzure | oh testing isn't a problem.. i have computers to test with | 16:47 |
| delinquentme | hmmm | 16:48 |
| kanzure | so that idea is different from the porn.exe approach | 16:49 |
| uniqanomaly | imo app that people run every day for some time makes more sense, no spikes in bandwidth use | 16:50 |
| uniqanomaly | on phones | 16:50 |
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| kanzure | uniqanomaly: well, there would definitely be a accumulative spike on the publisher's sites | 16:50 |
| kanzure | since this is more load than they are used to | 16:50 |
| kanzure | so taht's why a global simultaneous strike might be better | 16:50 |
| delinquentme | ahem | 16:50 |
| delinquentme | we're having issues w a single login and you're talking global strikes? | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | O_o | 16:51 |
| kanzure | yes, you said botnet | 16:51 |
| kanzure | botnet is where you have people in college install this on their computers | 16:51 |
| kanzure | and since they are authenticated by ip address, you're in | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | ok way too complex | 16:51 |
| kanzure | no it's not | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | botnet is just for a proxy | 16:51 |
| uniqanomaly | it doesn't work that way: you've got uni IP -> you have access to publisher site? | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | if you have one | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | fine | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | if not dont worry about it | 16:51 |
| kanzure | uniqanomaly: yes it works that way | 16:51 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: what? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: what are you smoking | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | dude | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | making a botnet for the sole purpose of this is silly | 16:52 |
| kanzure | anyway, the other method is using a remote anonymous vps to access a single ezproxy server with a username/password that was already put up on the web by some chinese patriot | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | the _only_ reason we're talking botnet is for a _single_ proxy | 16:52 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:52 |
| uniqanomaly | so phones connected to wifis, everyone running software for some time every day | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | A >> B >> C | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | b = proxy | 16:52 |
| uniqanomaly | you don't really want to suck it all at once | 16:52 |
| kanzure | a botnet for logging into a certain university's ezproxy site? | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | A = our machines | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, if we can get it all at once theres no real issue right? | 16:53 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: you're really confusing to talk with | 16:53 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ask questions then | 16:53 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: papers are being submitted all the time, think more long term :P | 16:53 |
| delinquentme | what are you confused about? | 16:53 |
| kanzure | why would we need a botnet if we control our vpses | 16:53 |
| uniqanomaly | being published* | 16:53 |
| kanzure | fuck a botnet, just write code.. | 16:53 |
| kanzure | if you're paying for the vpses why would you need a botnet | 16:53 |
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| delinquentme | well the only VPS i have access to are free amazon instances | 16:54 |
| delinquentme | for ref: http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journalpricing.cws_home/journal_pricing | 16:54 |
| kanzure | ok. so logging into ezproxy isn't really scalable, since it will probably break for that one user (like, "only one cookie session can be authenticated at a time") | 16:54 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure if that's an actual rule or not :x | 16:55 |
| kanzure | but if we have a botnet of students with ip addresses that are authenticated against the publishers, then we can scrape from multiple sessions simultaneously | 16:55 |
| kanzure | by 'botnet' i really just mean 'a lot of http proxies that this vps somewhere logs into' | 16:56 |
| kanzure | it would be useful to double check if one of those ezproxy logins can allow multiple simultaneous users to be authenticated as that same account | 16:57 |
| uniqanomaly | phone drones could do scraping and uploading to server at convenient time | 16:57 |
| kanzure | uniqanomaly: sure | 16:57 |
| yashgaroth | can't we just have a queue of article requests and it does one at a time through a single node? | 16:58 |
| delinquentme | ^^^^ | 16:58 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: yes but that's also slow | 16:58 |
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| kanzure | also, you have to not-know the person who is doing it | 16:58 |
| kanzure | or i mean, not care when they get caught | 16:58 |
| kanzure | if there's 100s of people on campus doing it simultaneously, it's easier to claim it's a virus | 16:59 |
| yashgaroth | but then they're likely to take more serious action than if it seems like a single breach | 16:59 |
| kanzure | or you could do single-scraping through ezproxy of course.. if you find a login on the web | 17:00 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: like what | 17:00 |
| yashgaroth | I dunno, I'm no sysadmin | 17:00 |
| delinquentme | the thing is untill we know the limits of what we can d/l w one account | 17:02 |
| delinquentme | we're talking out our asses | 17:02 |
| kanzure | http://ezproxy.free-webmaster-resources.org/ | 17:04 |
| kanzure | the central.edu one has ACS i think | 17:04 |
| delinquentme | like what if its just as easy as selenium yanking every paper from a single account? | 17:05 |
| kanzure | selenium is lame | 17:06 |
| kanzure | just use phantomjs | 17:06 |
| delinquentme | whatever we use is fine | 17:06 |
| delinquentme | LOLOL | 17:07 |
| delinquentme | SULTAN Qaboos university | 17:07 |
| kanzure | yes but their subscriptions are probably crap | 17:08 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, what google search did you run to get these sites w the logins /pass | 17:12 |
| kanzure | ezproxy edu 2048 https password language:chinese OR language:arabic | 17:13 |
| delinquentme | why 2048? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | that's their default port | 17:13 |
| kanzure | hell if i know | 17:13 |
| delinquentme | nice | 17:13 |
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| delinquentme | it seems this one doesnt have access to elsevier | 17:16 |
| klafka | thought, anyone know if you would be denied service at a place listed as 'dressy' on yelp or if they'd just stare at you kind of snootily | 17:20 |
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| delinquentme | in SF? | 17:25 |
| delinquentme | lol | 17:25 |
| delinquentme | y u testing it bro? | 17:25 |
| delinquentme | dont defile the place before i get there klafka | 17:25 |
| klafka | because i hate dressing up | 17:26 |
| klafka | hate hate hate | 17:26 |
| delinquentme | u got to catholic school? | 17:26 |
| klafka | episcopal | 17:26 |
| delinquentme | :P | 17:27 |
| delinquentme | tshirt jeans + coat too much? | 17:27 |
| klafka | man i don't even have a coat here | 17:27 |
| delinquentme | you could also call them | 17:27 |
| klafka | i have a button up shirt and a really really ugly polo shirt | 17:27 |
| delinquentme | PS hows the stomach? | 17:27 |
| klafka | yeah | 17:27 |
| klafka | better | 17:27 |
| klafka | i'm just a bit sick now | 17:28 |
| delinquentme | FUCK polos | 17:28 |
| delinquentme | :D | 17:28 |
| klafka | agreed | 17:28 |
| klafka | i had to wear those so much through school | 17:28 |
| delinquentme | you should show up in a shirt and bolo | 17:28 |
| delinquentme | plz take picture for me | 17:30 |
| klafka | bolo | 17:30 |
| klafka | idk what that is | 17:30 |
| yashgaroth | like those texan neck things? | 17:31 |
| delinquentme | LOLOL | 17:31 |
| delinquentme | yeh!! | 17:31 |
| delinquentme | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_yDb_65btjWA/TRpo7AosowI/AAAAAAAABRU/kaFGAdwRBzs/s640/bolo+tie.JPG | 17:32 |
| delinquentme | *rubs eyes* | 17:32 |
| delinquentme | klafka, is that you? | 17:32 |
| klafka | you know it | 17:33 |
| delinquentme | id hit it | 17:33 |
| delinquentme | ( if you were a little older ) | 17:33 |
| eudoxia | somehow I always imagined klafka would have that hair style | 17:33 |
| klafka | lmao | 17:34 |
| delinquentme | its euro chic man! | 17:34 |
| delinquentme | you walk in looking like that .. NOBODY asks questions | 17:34 |
| klafka | man i wasn't gonna eat dinner but now i'm quite hungry | 17:34 |
| klafka | hmm | 17:34 |
| delinquentme | they just assume you play for manchester united | 17:35 |
| uniqanomaly | anyone logged in at ezlibrary.ju.edu.jo ? | 17:42 |
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| kanzure | uniqanomaly: not me.. | 17:44 |
| kanzure | what's .jo anyway? | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, i am :D | 17:44 |
| eudoxia | Jordan? | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | ha | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | ya | 17:44 |
| uniqanomaly | yeah 3:44 am in there so | 17:44 |
| uniqanomaly | yeah, Jordan | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | lovely | 17:44 |
| uniqanomaly | 2:44 in here | 17:44 |
| uniqanomaly | :D | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, UK? | 17:44 |
| uniqanomaly | PL :< | 17:45 |
| uniqanomaly | pole land | 17:45 |
| delinquentme | << jelly | 17:45 |
| delinquentme | all your girls are like perfect 10s | 17:45 |
| uniqanomaly | nah | 17:45 |
| yashgaroth | they still have babushka syndrome | 17:45 |
| delinquentme | LOL | 17:45 |
| delinquentme | is that googleable? | 17:45 |
| yashgaroth | haven't checked, but that's the technical term | 17:46 |
| uniqanomaly | I prefer ukrainian grlz anyways :< | 17:46 |
| delinquentme | lol | 17:46 |
| delinquentme | theres this math major ukranina girl over here | 17:46 |
| delinquentme | she gets pissy when i say shes russian | 17:46 |
| delinquentme | lol | 17:46 |
| uniqanomaly | nxt time say shes russian pawn | 17:47 |
| uniqanomaly | lol | 17:47 |
| delinquentme | lol c'mon man i need hack for em | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | that ones already rocky | 17:48 |
| yashgaroth | mention your love of wheat | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | LOL | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | what? | 17:48 |
| uniqanomaly | wheat, not what | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | 2 years older and a math major ? yesh plz | 17:48 |
| yashgaroth | ukraine was the breadbasket of the ussr | 17:49 |
| delinquentme | i mean backstory? | 17:49 |
| uniqanomaly | ;D | 17:49 |
| delinquentme | oh so they're all like .. bread makers? | 17:49 |
| yashgaroth | other than that I don't know what else they're famous for, aside from hot women | 17:49 |
| eudoxia | Chernobyl? | 17:49 |
| delinquentme | lol | 17:49 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ | 17:49 |
| yashgaroth | hey baby, I hear you like mutants | 17:49 |
| delinquentme | eudoxia, wins for most innaprope comment | 17:49 |
| delinquentme | ok uniqanomaly that .jo is yours | 17:51 |
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| foucist | .jerk off ? | 17:52 |
| foucist | i already like that tld | 17:52 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: ok, I'm gonna so abuse it now | 17:52 |
| delinquentme | gogogogog! | 17:52 |
| yashgaroth | I imagine suspicious logins is the least of the jordanian gov't's worries right now, so you're probably fine | 17:53 |
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| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: ya clicked 'Logout...' at top of http://ezlibrary.ju.edu.jo/menu ? | 17:55 |
| delinquentme | which username are you using? | 17:55 |
| delinquentme | no wait! | 17:55 |
| delinquentme | nm | 17:55 |
| uniqanomaly | first one | 17:56 |
| uniqanomaly | nvm gonna check others | 17:56 |
| foucist | uniqanomaly: what are you doing, my evolutionary algorithm friend! | 17:57 |
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| uniqanomaly | foucist: http://ezproxy.free-webmaster-resources.org/ | 17:57 |
| kanzure | one of the problems i have when scraping is organizing the loot | 17:58 |
| delinquentme | hmm | 17:59 |
| delinquentme | seems to me that would be easy so long as you can access the stuff via browse option? | 17:59 |
| kanzure | not quite what i mean | 17:59 |
| kanzure | i don't know; i think i was an idiot when i did my earlier scrapes in life ;) | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | i mean if they're within particular headings | 18:00 |
| kanzure | didn't keep track of DOI numbers etc. | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | :D | 18:00 |
| kanzure | or any of the metadata | 18:00 |
| kanzure | just had a bunch of files | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | :D | 18:01 |
| delinquentme | slightly useful | 18:01 |
| delinquentme | but we could always get the meta data later | 18:01 |
| delinquentme | however it would be quicker in-context | 18:01 |
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| delinquentme | lost it: v | 20:18 |
| delinquentme | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiQp3UC15yI | 20:18 |
| kanzure | "fun fact: up until 2009 the parent company Elsevier used to organize some of the world's largest arms' trade conferences. so that's the kind of corporation you're dealing with here." | 20:25 |
| kanzure | man i love diybio. | 20:26 |
| klafka | i fucking hate elsevier | 20:31 |
| klafka | hated them for forever | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | whut | 20:33 |
| delinquentme | they organized ant farms | 20:33 |
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| kanzure | "The company publishes 250,000 articles a year in 2,000 journals.[1] Its archives contain seven million publications. Total yearly downloads amount to 240 million" | 20:47 |
| kanzure | 240 million? | 20:47 |
| delinquentme | so they're surely not holding MORE papers than that | 20:56 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScienceDirect | 20:57 |
| kanzure | says 10 million articles | 20:57 |
| kanzure | and 2500 journals | 20:57 |
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| kanzure | why doesn't harvard simply *buy* elsevier | 21:11 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: does your company ever use interlibrary loans? | 21:26 |
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| yashgaroth | not that I know of | 21:57 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 23:49 |
| yashgaroth | where the hell do you live | 23:51 |
| JayDugger | Me? | 23:51 |
| yashgaroth | yes you, mister morning in the evening guy | 23:51 |
| JayDugger | Fair enough. I live in the CST time zone, where the clock says almost 2:00 A.M.. | 23:53 |
| yashgaroth | ah, the literal morning | 23:53 |
| JayDugger | Right. | 23:53 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Feb 05 00:00:56 2012 | ||
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