| --- Log opened Fri Mar 02 00:00:33 2012 | ||
| joshcryer | Cool | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:14 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-45.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 00:14 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:14 | |
| -!- zacharycohn [~zacharyco@c-98-247-247-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zacharycohn] | 00:27 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:39 | |
| foucist | Steel_: so what's your transhumanism forum gonna be about.. i mean, if it's too general, your aunt might not be interested | 00:41 |
| foucist | also, is it active etc? | 00:41 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:50 | |
| Steel_ | foucist, pms | 00:51 |
| delinquentme | go! | 01:06 |
| Steel_ | hey dm | 01:15 |
| -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-24-107.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:15 | |
| Steel_ | sup | 01:15 |
| delinquentme | howdah :D | 01:22 |
| -!- nmz787 [43f2b117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.177.23] has quit [Quit: Page closed] | 01:28 | |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 01:54 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@203-173-238-133.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 02:06 | |
| ybit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqC8zm7Hyg | 02:43 |
| ybit | Open Source Ecology - Enterprise Plan | 02:43 |
| ybit | i didn't know there was a plan to hire programmers to write cad/cam software | 02:44 |
| ybit | ..and there's plan to pay 1.2million dollars for this | 02:44 |
| ybit | eww: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/373493158/open-hardware-needs-a-sourceforge-of-its-own | 02:47 |
| ybit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMmP_85yOWk | 02:49 |
| ybit | ose Open source CAD/CAM Solution | 02:49 |
| ybit | i.e. an interview with this guy: http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Mike_Apostol | 02:53 |
| joshcryer | They stole my idea. Hopefully they're successful. | 02:57 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:10 | |
| ybit | discussion on freecad forum: http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/free-cad/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2313 | 03:10 |
| ybit | http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/623/freecad | 03:10 |
| ybit | on ose forum | 03:10 |
| -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] | 03:50 | |
| utopiah | 403 http://hplusmagazine.com | 04:36 |
| -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:05 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-24-3-85-154.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 05:12 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] | 05:27 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:28 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:55 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 05:55 | |
| -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [] | 05:55 | |
| kanzure | utopiah: nie | 06:33 |
| kanzure | *nice | 06:33 |
| chris_99 | yay, i just got transducers today to play with sonoluminescence | 06:37 |
| kanzure | ybit: so they've hired someone to work on freecad? | 06:37 |
| kanzure | why not hire juergen o__o | 06:45 |
| kanzure | since he- you know- wrote freecad | 06:45 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:17 | |
| AlonzoTG | yeah, that's an interesting phenomenon, I haven't seen it myself but it is probably one of the most tantalizing scientific mysteries still open. | 07:22 |
| kanzure | what? | 07:28 |
| AlonzoTG | sonoluminescence | 07:29 |
| ThomasEgi | light-on-sound? | 07:30 |
| kanzure | light-generated sound | 07:30 |
| kanzure | and sometimes sound-generated light | 07:30 |
| AlonzoTG | I suggest you look it up, it's quite cool, it was even featured in a Keanu Reeves movie. =P | 07:31 |
| AlonzoTG | ... does your work for you... grumble grumble: | 07:31 |
| kanzure | the epitome of cool. | 07:31 |
| AlonzoTG | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence | 07:31 |
| AlonzoTG | << was responding to Christ who spoke at 9:35 AM. | 07:33 |
| AlonzoTG | er, chris, | 07:33 |
| AlonzoTG | << is quite sick today, taking basically my third sick day this week.... | 07:34 |
| kanzure | "sick days" are for people who work | 07:35 |
| AlonzoTG | Quite true. | 07:36 |
| AlonzoTG | I've been trying heroically to save a doomed project for the HUD. | 07:36 |
| AlonzoTG | the DGRS. | 07:36 |
| AlonzoTG | =P | 07:36 |
| AlonzoTG | Some of the screens take 2 minutes to load! =P | 07:36 |
| AlonzoTG | and the code is basically unmaintained, | 07:37 |
| AlonzoTG | they just try to add new features without "breaking it" | 07:37 |
| AlonzoTG | without trying to seriously overhaul and modernize it. | 07:37 |
| AlonzoTG | after working on it for like two weeks, Netbeans counts 1,300 errors and 13,000 other defects. | 07:40 |
| chris_99 | sorry was afk, AlonzoTG i'm just hoping the transducers i've got work with it | 07:40 |
| -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:20 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 08:23 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-2f.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:26 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-2f.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 08:26 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:26 | |
| -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 08:59 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | did that cheap tDCS guy ever come back? | 09:21 |
| kanzure | nope | 09:21 |
| kanzure | not really | 09:21 |
| Mokbortolan_ | shaaaady | 09:21 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I hope nobody actually gave him any money | 09:22 |
| ThomasEgi | you guys still need that constant current source? | 09:22 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'm still trying to find time to sort out my resistors, but I'm using the LM334 | 09:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | was looking at current monitors | 09:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | thinking about v3, maybe with an LCD displaying the current | 09:25 |
| ThomasEgi | why not get a cheap multimeter? | 09:25 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that's a thought | 09:26 |
| Mokbortolan_ | why reinvent the wheel, right? | 09:26 |
| ThomasEgi | well. if the wheel is 100 times overpriced on the marked, there is reason to do so. but multimeters are pretty cheap, so.. | 09:26 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ugh | 09:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | all the cheap digital multimeters on amazon have complaints about drifting over tiem | 09:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or one five-star review :p | 09:33 |
| kanzure | "PS: BPF just got our 501c3 application accepted last week. We will begin more active fundraising in a few weeks. Ken will be sending a Q1 Advisor Update email at the end of this month, he's already written most of it." | 09:39 |
| kanzure | bpf=brain preservation foundation | 09:39 |
| kanzure | apparently they have sebastien seung on their advisory board, so that's neat | 09:39 |
| kanzure | i think that's john smart and ken hayworth but randal might have been pimping with them for a while | 09:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | does formalin not work well? | 09:40 |
| kanzure | iirc they had some chemical fixation complaints | 09:41 |
| Mokbortolan_ | what was it... a recent ampakine-based cognitive enhancer got scuttled and cortex pharm said it was the result of the fixative process used | 09:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | during the analysis of the brain samples | 09:43 |
| kanzure | scuttled? | 09:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | a nautical term | 09:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | when a boat is sunk intentionally | 09:43 |
| ThomasEgi | Mokbortolan_, you really dont neet a terribly accurate multimeter. messuring 2 mA is something that's pretty easy, and a few percent drift wont really matterin this case. | 09:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | they're resubmitting it for some other purpose | 09:44 |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:47 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@203-173-238-133.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:49 | |
| kanzure | isn't this the upverter guy? http://zakhomuth.com/sad-tired-and-alone-my-ongoing-battle-with-st-39237 | 09:58 |
| kanzure | maybe he feels bad that his product isn't open source (kidding) | 09:59 |
| -!- zacharycohn [~zacharyco@216.190.29.118] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:00 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | http://www.missingremote.com/guide/how-enable-concurrent-sessions-windows-7-service-pack-1-rtm | 10:08 |
| Mokbortolan_ | It works! | 10:08 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:18 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:33 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 10:42 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:49 | |
| -!- Steel2 [8071ee2f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.113.238.47] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:10 | |
| Steel2 | Kanzure, what happened to the cure is now? | 11:10 |
| kanzure | Steel2: i forget | 11:18 |
| kanzure | something i'm sure | 11:18 |
| -!- Steel2 [8071ee2f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.113.238.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 11:25 | |
| kanzure | "At the recent Global Future 2045 International Congress held in Moscow, 31-year-old media mogul Dmitry Itskov told attendees how he plans to create exactly that kind of immortality, first by creating a robot controlled by the human brain," | 11:28 |
| kanzure | "then by actually transplanting a human brain into a humanoid robot, and then by replacing the surgical transplant with a method for simply uploading a person’s consciousness into a surrogate ‘bot." | 11:28 |
| kanzure | http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-03/achieving-immortality-russian-mogul-wants-begin-putting-human-brains-robots-and-soon | 11:28 |
| kanzure | oh shit why did i just link to a popsci article | 11:31 |
| kanzure | forgive me | 11:31 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] | 11:39 | |
| -!- Steel2 [81a148fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.72.250] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:57 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 12:02 | |
| -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 12:03 | |
| -!- Helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-101-208-182.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:03 | |
| -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:22 | |
| kanzure | google results are taking me >5sec to load these days | 12:30 |
| chris_99 | i wish they had an API for google scholar | 12:35 |
| kanzure | webgl bipedal walking https://github.com/charlieschwabacher/Walking | 12:36 |
| -!- ybit2 [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:44 | |
| -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 12:46 | |
| ybit | kanzure: i don't think i've hired anyone | 12:55 |
| Steel2 | ybit, where do you work? | 12:56 |
| ybit | it looks like marcin has handed over the initial research to apostol though | 12:57 |
| ybit | Steel2: currently, i just attend school | 12:57 |
| Steel2 | ah | 12:58 |
| ybit2 | i guess you could say i work for kde right now | 12:58 |
| ybit2 | ;) | 12:58 |
| Steel2 | hah | 12:59 |
| * ybit2 just survived storm with tornadoes | 12:59 | |
| Steel2 | where are you going to school? | 12:59 |
| ybit2 | and now i'm hungry | 12:59 |
| ybit2 | northwest shoals community college in muscle shoals, alabama | 12:59 |
| ybit2 | it will be my last semester there | 13:00 |
| -!- kvltist [~Kvltist@p5B33EC30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:01 | |
| Steel2 | cool | 13:03 |
| kanzure | ybit: apostol emailed me and said he's not doing anything and to ask someone else | 13:03 |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:26 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 13:28 | |
| -!- ybit2 [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 13:36 | |
| -!- Steel2 [81a148fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.161.72.250] has quit [Quit: Page closed] | 13:44 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-194-101.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:56 | |
| kanzure | hi ParahSailin_ | 13:57 |
| ParahSailin_ | howdy | 13:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: https://github.com/mpictor/StepClassLibrary/wiki/python-generator | 13:57 |
| kanzure | http://mpictor.github.com/scl/python/cd242/ | 13:57 |
| kanzure | monsanto data dump http://pastehtml.com/view/bpvygosbp.html | 14:04 |
| -!- ybit2 [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:11 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:15 | |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:25 | |
| kanzure | boopity boop | 14:32 |
| Juul | doo de doo | 14:33 |
| kanzure | Juul: sup | 14:34 |
| archels | kanzure: Would you work for Monsanto, or would you have ethical objections to it? | 14:35 |
| Juul | kanzure, oh not much. trying to shuffle two years of data that's been kept in various spreadsheets and assorted file formats into a consistent database structure before the current BIOFAB shuts down | 14:35 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-2f.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:38 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@pppdyn-2f.stud-ko.rz-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 14:38 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:38 | |
| kanzure | archels: it would depend on what i'm doing | 14:38 |
| kanzure | but no that's like asking "would you work for the federal government, or do you object to (say) the military" | 14:39 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, easy answer: " GET OFF MY LAWN!!" | 14:41 |
| kanzure | Juul: let me know if i can help | 14:41 |
| Juul | kanzure, :) | 14:42 |
| kanzure | Juul: one of my specialties is "yelling at you because your files are incomprehensible and your code sucks" | 14:42 |
| Juul | kanzure, haha, the big problem was that they hired a guy with an MD to do their IT from the beginning | 14:42 |
| kanzure | (or praising good stuff, but presumably you wouldn't need me to yell at you if it's good already) | 14:42 |
| Juul | your code is bad and you should feel bad | 14:43 |
| Juul | hm | 14:44 |
| kanzure | Juul: see how motivating it can be? | 14:46 |
| * ybit hands a Juul a tissue | 14:46 | |
| Juul | :-/ it just makes me feel sad, since the people aren't trained in IT | 14:46 |
| Juul | given that fact, i'm actually impressed by everything | 14:47 |
| kanzure | Juul: how much stuff is there? what does the stuff cover | 14:47 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:48 | |
| Juul | well i'm sorta in crunch mode now. ignoring everything except the final results: expression levels and reliability data for 5' UTRs, Promoters and Terminators. Then there's the sequences for these parts, their sub-parts and the plasmids. | 14:49 |
| kanzure | new parts that aren't on partsregistry.org? | 14:49 |
| Juul | yes | 14:49 |
| kanzure | do they work | 14:49 |
| kanzure | i mean, in a vaguely repeatable/known way | 14:50 |
| Juul | the 5' UTRs are very good | 14:50 |
| Juul | they'll be online by the end of this month | 14:50 |
| kanzure | ah cool | 14:50 |
| Juul | i'm making a little constraints-based search tool, where you can select the range of expression you're interested in and it will show results sorted by reliability. with some simple constraints to begin, like: ignore parts that have these restriction sites [list of sites] | 14:51 |
| kanzure | 'range of expression'... expression levels? | 14:51 |
| Juul | yeah, so we have promoters, 5' UTRs and terminators, and we've tested these in different combinations and with different genes. So we have some "score" for each of them that says something about how much these affect the amount of protein expressed. The expression level or we sometimes just refer to it as the part performance. | 14:53 |
| Juul | Then we have the part reliability: How much performance varies when the part is composed with different parts. E.g. how much does a 5' UTRs translation level vary when used with different genes. | 14:54 |
| kanzure | did you test this combinatorially to determine your score metric? | 14:54 |
| Juul | yeah | 14:55 |
| Juul | we have a bio-informatics guy who's been doing the modeling | 14:55 |
| kanzure | lots of cell plates? | 14:55 |
| Juul | yes lots and lots :-) | 14:55 |
| kanzure | er i guess it could be lots of microarrays | 14:55 |
| kanzure | i see | 14:55 |
| Juul | i made an automated system that sucks in the .fcs files that the flow cytometer spits out, lets you associate them with plate layouts (defined previously via a web app), and then the rest is automatic | 14:56 |
| kanzure | was plate loading a manual or automated procedure? | 14:56 |
| Juul | it is analyzed using the BioConductor R libraries (flowCore and flowViz) and saved to the database. | 14:56 |
| kanzure | neat | 14:56 |
| kanzure | you should definitely publish your .fcs parsing code (i don't know what format that actually is, but i'm sure it's either csv or awful) | 14:57 |
| Juul | the actual wet-lab side of things has been manual. we did look at automation, but we never really crossed the threshold where the time taken to set it up could be justified. | 14:57 |
| kanzure | interesting, what was the setup time you estimated | 14:57 |
| Juul | I'm using the flowCore R library from BioConductor to parse the fcs files. It isn't perfect, but it's better now that I found some bugs and submitted a patch. | 14:58 |
| kanzure | and was that setup time w/ purchasing some commercial solution, or setup time for rolling your own equipment? | 14:58 |
| kanzure | yay patches. ok. that makes me happy | 14:58 |
| Juul | .fcs is a standardized file format. It's ugly, but at least there is a (sorta buggy) library to deal with it. | 14:59 |
| archels | kanzure: Working for Monsanto might mean that your personal data is somewhere on that website right now. Does the next Joe PhD deserve that? | 15:00 |
| kanzure | archels: my personal data is all over the web | 15:00 |
| Juul | we have access to all of JBEIs automation, and experts in using the equipment. I think the decision was made because the wet-lab team felt like the time to learn how to use the equipment and to write and test the automation scripts might not pay off. | 15:00 |
| kanzure | Juul: wow that's interesting | 15:01 |
| kanzure | i would have thought it was something like "time to actually purchase/assemble/setup the equipment" not "training/our software" stuff | 15:01 |
| Juul | yeah. that's something i wanted to look at more, but haven't had the time | 15:02 |
| Juul | the workflow at the BIOFAB has been very ad-hoc | 15:03 |
| Juul | which might be unexpected, since its stated goal is to make biology less of an ad-hoc process | 15:03 |
| kanzure | most molecular biology labs are ridiculously ad hoc | 15:04 |
| Juul | I think the team size and budget was just too small. If we'd been bigger we'd have had to develop a better process. | 15:04 |
| Juul | kanzure, very true | 15:04 |
| kanzure | to the point of "hey i just got done making a gel" -> "oh i made one hours ago for you it was sitting right there" -> "yeah i thought that was something else" | 15:04 |
| Juul | according to what people tell me, Amyris is one of the least ad-hoc synth bio labs around. | 15:04 |
| kanzure | Juul: what do you think of uh.. quartzy.com? | 15:04 |
| kanzure | they do lab inventory SaaS crap | 15:05 |
| archels | kanzure: Not everyone is like that you know. :P | 15:05 |
| kanzure | archels: is your question about privacy or about whether or not i'd actually want to work at monsanto | 15:05 |
| kanzure | :p | 15:05 |
| archels | haha, mostly the latter | 15:07 |
| kanzure | depends on how much money they are offering me. | 15:08 |
| Juul | kanzure, it seems very simple. i'm sure it might be good for small labs with no IT staff. It seems like it's only marginally better than using google docs or a shared dropbox folder. In some ways it's worse. What BIOFAB needs is for their lab management system to be integrated with the workflow. If I'd had the time (and who knows, maybe the BIOFAB will actually continue and I'll still get the chance), the workflow would be something like: 0. Design p | 15:16 |
| Juul | arts with whatever tool you have or by hand (these are short part) and feed them to the web app. 1. Plan experiment, design 96-well plate layouts. 2. Plan and simulate assembly using the web app. 3. Order parts. 4. Do assembly. 5. Send assembled parts for sequencing. 6. Feed received sequence files to web app for sequence checking. 7. Assuming no errors, go do your transformation with your assembled parts. 8. Shove the 96-well plate with your culture | 15:16 |
| Juul | s into the flow cytometer and press the big green button. 9. Open up the web app and associate the new flow cyte results with the plate layout you made previously. 10. Rejoice! Performance and characterization data for your parts is now available through the nice web GUI.. | 15:16 |
| Juul | for now our assembly-tool is a third-party told and not integrated, and the sequence checker tool is in the web app but not fully integrated. | 15:17 |
| Juul | it would make sense to expand this system with lab-management features, such that you could look up the protocols involved with all parts / strains and also find the location of any archived parts and strains. | 15:20 |
| ParahSailin_ | one does not simply *have* a flow cytometer | 15:20 |
| Juul | well then i guess you'll have to put your 96-well plates on a flat-bed scanner and pretend it's a plate-reader :P | 15:21 |
| Juul | we use the flow-cytometer because it gives better results, but we did use a plate-reader for some of the early experiments | 15:21 |
| Juul | the third party software for the flow cytometer is a drag though | 15:22 |
| ParahSailin_ | id like to make a cheaper flow cytometer, maybe even a sorter | 15:23 |
| kanzure | Juul: ah damn, plate layouts. is there a standard way to store that info or what | 15:23 |
| -!- strages_shop [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:25 | |
| Juul | kanzure, it's possible. The simple thing to do would be use the SBOL core data model as the data structure for storing parts. Each strain is a part, containing sub-parts (promoter, 5' UTR, gene, terminator). Then just create a data structure that allows an arbitrary number of wells, each with a column and row and an associated Part of type Strain. | 15:26 |
| kanzure | yeah lab workflows are a strange beast | 15:26 |
| ParahSailin_ | whats biofab | 15:26 |
| Juul | ParahSailin, http://biofab.org/about | 15:27 |
| Juul | One goal of the BIOFAB has been to make a set of Promoters, 5' UTRs and Terminators that are well-characterized, including how their function is affected when composed in different combinations. Another goal has been to design new parts in these categories that are more modular, i.e. their function varies less with context-changes. | 15:29 |
| Juul | This has all been in E. coli so far. | 15:29 |
| ParahSailin_ | oh i think ive seen this | 15:29 |
| Juul | I think Drew Endy is planning to work in yeast as well. | 15:30 |
| Juul | To summarize results: Promoters and 5' UTRs can be composed without completely changing the function of either. 5' UTRs and genes cannot. Terminators can also be composed fairly reliably. Mutalik et al. (of BIOFAB) has designed and tested 5' UTRs that are more modular, based on previous research into highly-expressing problematic proteins. | 15:33 |
| -!- strages_shop is now known as strages_2600 | 15:33 | |
| Juul | two papers are in the pipeline | 15:33 |
| kanzure | your step 4 (assembly) is assembly into the plasmid? | 15:37 |
| kanzure | i guess not, you have no reason to resequence plasmids | 15:38 |
| kanzure | prolly just ligating your promoters and other parts | 15:38 |
| kanzure | Juul: so i guess once you've defined the workflow, you don't really change it | 15:41 |
| kanzure | my time spent in molecular biology labs has been mostly undocumented workflows other than some scribblings in a notebook sometimes | 15:42 |
| kanzure | never ever has it been "Here's a specific stack of documents about this particular workflow" | 15:42 |
| kanzure | but i'm p. sure it's like that in companies (or, i would hope) | 15:42 |
| strangewarp | So I found a nootropic drink in the organic food store, featuring citicoline | 15:45 |
| strangewarp | has anyone else had experience with citicoline? I'm noticing a profound benefit after just a couple hours | 15:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | really | 15:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I read that citicholine is awesome on every site that sells it :p | 15:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so I've been sort of on the fence about trying it | 15:46 |
| strangewarp | I've been meaning to buy piracetam supplements but I'm currently an unemployed mooch.. citicoline seems pretty good but I don't have experience with anything else | 15:46 |
| kanzure | el neato http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/09/creative-commons-data-dump-sep-11/ | 15:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I run a piracetam store, my prices are very low | 15:47 |
| strangewarp | o rly ! | 15:47 |
| strangewarp | throw me a link, I may be a future customer then | 15:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I've got a subreddit with a few folks who can confirm that I'm not a scammer | 15:48 |
| strangewarp | hmm, good good | 15:48 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 15:48 | |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: nah you might be a scammer, but you scam good shit | 15:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :p | 15:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'm too scrupulous to be a scammer | 15:50 |
| Juul | kanzure, yes to the ligating. and yeah, the biofab has a pretty stable workflow, and not all labs have that, but i think the whole "design -> construct -> verify -> implement -> analyze results" pipeline is, or at least will be, shared between many synth-bio groups. they will need different code modules to use different assembly methods and analyze different results | 15:50 |
| -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:50 | |
| joshcryer | http://bcove.me/nz28d1ph | 15:50 |
| Mokbortolan_ | besides, reddit will come down on you like a ton of bacon for messing around | 15:50 |
| joshcryer | http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/14/3/033001/article | 15:50 |
| Juul | woah, new respect for stackoverflow | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and that's where most of my customers come from, so I don't mess around | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the worse I do is ship late because I have a busy life | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | worst | 15:51 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:51 | |
| strangewarp | hmmmm | 15:52 |
| * strangewarp adds that nootropics site to bookmarks | 15:52 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | besides, I have ~3000 comment karma, I'd hate to lose it! :p | 15:53 |
| Juul | joshcryer, isn't that info lost when the radio signals bounce off matter? | 15:53 |
| kanzure | Juul: who's been doing the synthesis work for biofab? | 15:56 |
| joshcryer | Juul, not sure, I am only halfway through the paper. | 15:56 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:56 | |
| Juul | kanzure, IDT | 15:56 |
| Juul | joshcryer, ok, interesting though. | 15:56 |
| kanzure | Juul: what's the terms? $0.20/bp? 7-day turn around? | 15:57 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:57 | |
| Juul | kanzure, hm, not sure, pretty sure it's faster than that. we have only needed short oligo synthesis, since the parts we deal with don't require anything more | 15:58 |
| kanzure | well idt has their "overnight delivery" option but iirc that's not their standard offer | 15:58 |
| joshcryer | Juul, even still, it has uses through OTA and space based communications. Effectively infinite bandwidth (limited only by your ability to build transmitters). | 15:58 |
| Juul | joshcryer, yes true, but if it works in urban settings it would have a lot of real-world impact "now" | 15:59 |
| Juul | well, i gotta go pick up a cyberanthropologist at the airport now | 15:59 |
| Juul | bbl | 15:59 |
| kanzure | seeya | 15:59 |
| joshcryer | Later. | 15:59 |
| kanzure | god damn cyberapologists | 16:00 |
| Urchin | cyberanthropologists? | 16:00 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 16:01 | |
| Urchin | never mind, not rational right now | 16:01 |
| foucist | none of those exist.. this ain't a cyberpunk world | 16:02 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, may I ask, and forgive me if I'm overstepping, but why do you seem to be focused on bio so much? I see a lot of jargon that is just over my head. Not that I'm against it, if that's your niche go for it, etc. | 16:02 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: because none of you in here seem to be able to help me with the CAD/engineering stuff | 16:03 |
| kanzure | hmm that's probably not the answer you want | 16:04 |
| joshcryer | That's fair enough in any case. If bio is popular then so be it. | 16:04 |
| kanzure | there's a lot of low-hanging biohacking fruit that directly or nearly-directly contributes to human improvements | 16:04 |
| joshcryer | Such as age lengthing? Cure for cancer? | 16:05 |
| kanzure | also if you don't understand the jargon, just ask a naseating number of questions | 16:05 |
| kanzure | aging is still a tricky one http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ | 16:05 |
| kanzure | cancer has tons of options available for sure | 16:05 |
| joshcryer | I do lots of engineering work in my daily life so I think it would be silly of me to try a different field. We'll do the CAD/engineering stuff in due course, when I have more free time. | 16:06 |
| kanzure | wait why is it stilly of you to try something else? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | when engineers have stuck their head into biology, even just a little bit, a lot of cool things have happened | 16:07 |
| joshcryer | I have never been able to get a hang of bio, it's hard stuff. I read the logs and my eyes gloss over. :P | 16:08 |
| * joshcryer afks to walk the dog | 16:08 | |
| kanzure | that's probably because you don't ask about it? | 16:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sometimes I try to imagine the insane chemical riot that goes on inside a human body | 16:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and if I focus on it long enough, I get a very strange lightheadedness before I have to stop | 16:13 |
| kanzure | that's just called lsd | 16:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I mean, what's going on in just a single drop of blood | 16:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hormones, waste products, oxygen, lymphocytes, hematocytes, intrinsic factors, environmental contaminants, carbon dioxide, platelets, antibodies | 16:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | heck, even what goes on inside a single cell | 16:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | not to mention the insanely complex interplay | 16:15 |
| kanzure | i should introduce you to an immune system textbook | 16:16 |
| kanzure | you'll either laugh or murder me | 16:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | once we can electronically expand working memory, perhaps we'll be able to better understand things | 16:16 |
| ThomasEgi | i dont think memory is a limited recource within the brain | 16:17 |
| Mokbortolan_ | working memory certainly is | 16:17 |
| kanzure | aww i can't find a good diagram of the wound healing process | 16:18 |
| kanzure | anyway there's like 40 enzymes that are known to directly impact the scarring process | 16:18 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 16:21 | |
| -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:21 | |
| -!- ybit2 is now known as yottabit | 16:21 | |
| * Mokbortolan_ imagines cells rolling along like fat soggy deflated beachballs. | 16:22 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | does prosaposin affect wound healing? | 16:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | wait, wrong protein | 16:23 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:26 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | I remember reading about a drug that inhibits the protein involved in cell movement | 16:27 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and I wondered why it wasn't a silver-bullet to stop metastasis, then realized cells probably need to move normally | 16:28 |
| -!- strages_3600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:31 | |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 16:31 | |
| joshcryer | I'm not sure bio has very much to contribute toward "clean water, nutritious food, affordable housing, personalized education, and non-polluting, ubiquitous energy." | 16:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | why not? | 16:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | GMO algae, for one | 16:43 |
| joshcryer | Useful for archaic combustion engine technology, sure. | 16:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or fuel cells | 16:44 |
| Mokbortolan_ | there are some fuel cells that can use hydrocarbons | 16:45 |
| joshcryer | DEFCs do have some promise, I admit. | 16:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | also, understanding the mechanisms already in use by the natural world can inform other sciences | 16:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but at the end of the day, if you don't have a passion for it, I suggest you find your passion :p | 16:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | 'cos that's where you'll be most useful in creating part of your goal | 16:46 |
| joshcryer | Replicators it is. ;P | 16:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | technically though | 16:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | there are replicators that can turn low-value cellulose into high-quality proteins :p | 16:48 |
| joshcryer | Yeah, they make inexact copies, and some are highly flawed and don't survive their environment for long. | 16:48 |
| joshcryer | I'm in the mind of Lackner-Wendt Auxon's, hive replication. Large industrial factories that can make anything with the right stocks. | 16:49 |
| joshcryer | I do think labmeat is a useful use of bio though. | 16:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh | 16:50 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I was referring to goats | 16:50 |
| Steel_ | I'm going to buy exclusively lab grown meat when I can | 16:52 |
| Steel_ | also, goats are delicious | 16:52 |
| joshcryer | Same here, Steel_. | 16:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I like the idea of quorn | 16:53 |
| joshcryer | I know a lot of vegetarians who will, too. | 16:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | what's wrong with mycoprotein? | 16:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it actually tastes pretty good, too | 16:54 |
| joshcryer | I love mushrooms. :P | 16:54 |
| -!- strages_3600 [~strages@adsl-98-81-129-33.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 16:54 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's not a mushroom | 16:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's closer to a mold | 16:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | they engineered the toxins out of it | 16:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Fusarium venenatum | 16:56 |
| joshcryer | Hmm, where can I get it? | 16:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | health food store, in the vegetarian section | 16:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | frozen | 16:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's not bad, IMO | 16:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though, technically the product you buy isn't pure mycoprotein, they add egg white as a binder and texturizer | 16:57 |
| joshcryer | Looks like flaxseed could be a useful replacement for egg whites. | 17:02 |
| joshcryer | I grew up on a farm, farm animals are a pain. Until you eat them. Then it's almost worth it. | 17:03 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Quit: ...unyaaa ~~~] | 17:04 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's easier to just cultivate wild animasl | 17:04 |
| Mokbortolan_ | animals | 17:04 |
| joshcryer | Nah, domesticated animals are cool, they come to you not knowing you're going to eat them. | 17:05 |
| joshcryer | Wild animals are always suspecting that you will eat them. :P | 17:06 |
| Mokbortolan_ | well that's what makes it fun to hunt them down | 17:08 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ref: precolonial America | 17:08 |
| joshcryer | Yeah but hunting isn't easy! | 17:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's good exercise | 17:09 |
| joshcryer | Out of a 4 day hunt we only caught one buck when I was a kid. I thought my neighbors were crazy. But, effective. We were poor so one 20 cent bullet fed a family of 6 for a winter. | 17:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | makes it tough to develop an industrial society if you're either hunting or picking berries, though | 17:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | joshcryer: if that was your only protein source I'll bet you'd get better at it :p | 17:10 |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:10 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:10 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:11 | |
| strangewarp | I want to put the future in my mouth | 17:11 |
| strangewarp | 0_0 | 17:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | taste the rainbow? | 17:12 |
| joshcryer | Eat some memristors. | 17:12 |
| n_bentha | who said hunting isn't easy? | 17:12 |
| joshcryer | There was some recent drama on memristors: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328535.200-online-spat-over-who-joins-memristor-club.html | 17:13 |
| joshcryer | n_bentha, I said that from my personal experience, standing out in the woods for 4 days straight is not easy, when you can slaughter a cow. | 17:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I read there was some recent movement in the commercial world | 17:14 |
| n_bentha | True, josh, but I'd rather go hunting. | 17:16 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 17:16 | |
| n_bentha | But you do have a point. 4 days is a little much. | 17:16 |
| joshcryer | n_bentha, I was a teenage city slicker, after we were done I was appreciative of it. They may have been testing me in retrospect. Haven't gone since, but I'm not opposed to it or anything. | 17:18 |
| joshcryer | And dang, I didn't know John McCarthy died. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | i just had the weirdest call with sebastien seung | 17:18 |
| kanzure | couldn't understand a word he was saying | 17:19 |
| kanzure | but he sounded disappointed in me | 17:19 |
| kanzure | oops | 17:19 |
| kanzure | not sebastien seung | 17:19 |
| kanzure | sebastien someone-else from longecity | 17:19 |
| joshcryer | Who could be disappointed in you? :( | 17:20 |
| joshcryer | Did you do something to Longecity? :P | 17:30 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:30 | |
| -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-24-107.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 17:33 | |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:36 | |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 17:49 | |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:02 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:03 | |
| -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:11 | |
| kanzure | hi yashgaroth | 18:12 |
| yashgaroth | hey | 18:12 |
| yashgaroth | the diybio discussion is somewhat more productive than the transhumani one, I must say | 18:12 |
| kanzure | and what sucks is that you and i both know diybio could be way better | 18:13 |
| yashgaroth | they've gotta move out of 'talking about e.coli' some day...not that there's anything wrong with bacteria, but seriously | 18:14 |
| kanzure | genspace does some tissue culture stuff | 18:15 |
| yashgaroth | too bad there's no biotech in NYC to keep me employed | 18:16 |
| kanzure | but to be honest ever since they stopped calling themselves diybio-nyc none of them are regular contributors to the diybio group | 18:16 |
| kanzure | they were really hostile against knowing me for instance, one of them went as far as saying she only talked with people over the net that she personally knows | 18:16 |
| kanzure | (wtf?) | 18:16 |
| yashgaroth | hahaha | 18:16 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 18:19 | |
| yashgaroth | still, it went better than I expected | 18:19 |
| yashgaroth | also if I may, regarding 16:42 < joshcryer> I'm not sure bio has very much to contribute toward "clean water, nutritious food, affordable housing, personalized education, and non-polluting, ubiquitous energy." | 18:21 |
| kanzure | heh "nutritious food" | 18:21 |
| kanzure | (well especially food) | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | plants can take the dirtiest water imaginable and turn it into pure water, you just gotta make them have it accessible | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | nutritious food, that one's too easy | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | housing, trees are biological | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | education...um, skip that one | 18:22 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:22 | |
| yashgaroth | energy, GMO algae etc don't release any net CO2; it doesn't matter how much gas you guzzle, all the CO2 goes back into the algae and converted | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | not to mention heavily modifying plants to output DC current | 18:23 |
| yashgaroth | also, hydrocarbons are extremely energy-dense, far more so than any potential battery | 18:24 |
| yashgaroth | ok I'm done | 18:24 |
| yashgaroth | the only useful part of lab-grown meat is the ability to eat human burgers | 18:26 |
| strangewarp | Hmm | 18:29 |
| strangewarp | https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat - Was just linked this video; I figure it has some cross-appeal here, since it's comedy about some code | 18:29 |
| -!- zacharycohn [~zacharyco@216.190.29.118] has quit [Quit: zacharycohn] | 18:29 | |
| kanzure | strangewarp: seen it :) | 18:32 |
| strangewarp | yay \o/ | 18:32 |
| -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 18:33 | |
| -!- Vicarious [diepfriet@v.icario.us] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:38 | |
| Vicarious | hi | 18:39 |
| sylph_mako | kanzure do your thing. | 18:42 |
| sylph_mako | fine then. | 18:44 |
| sylph_mako | Hell Vicarious, what brings you here? | 18:44 |
| sylph_mako | hello* | 18:44 |
| Vicarious | oh I just read some e-mails on the hackerspaces.org mailing list which pointed me here | 18:45 |
| kanzure | hi Vicarious | 18:46 |
| Vicarious | hello | 18:46 |
| kanzure | welcome, i guess you like hackerspaces then | 18:47 |
| -!- zacharycohn [~zacharyco@c-98-247-247-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:47 | |
| Vicarious | in fact, I am in our hackerspace right now \o/ | 18:47 |
| kanzure | biocurious? | 18:47 |
| Vicarious | but going home soon, it's 3:47 a.m. and everybody else already left | 18:47 |
| Vicarious | I watched lepht anonym's awesome lecture at 27C3 from the basement of the bcc, that got me interested in transhumanism | 18:49 |
| Vicarious | so far I only implanted a magnet under the skin of my left hand.. couldn't get it in the fingertip | 18:49 |
| Vicarious | pics or it didn't happen: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivicarious/6492287455/ | 18:50 |
| kanzure | no i believe you | 18:50 |
| kanzure | what sort of hackerspace stuff do you do? biotech? machining? electronics? softwaring? | 18:51 |
| sylph_mako | Vicarious, so.. how well does that work relative to putting the thing in your fingertip? | 18:53 |
| Vicarious | sylph_mako: good question, I don't have one in my fingertip yet, that's still on my to do list | 18:53 |
| Vicarious | kanzure: I do different stuff.. mostly hardware hacking | 18:54 |
| Vicarious | I'm one of the founders of our hackerspace, recently we moved to a new location where we have 24/7 access | 18:55 |
| kanzure | so.. lab hardware? electronics? christmas lights? :P | 18:56 |
| Vicarious | some electronics, no christmas lights but I made a christmas tree from cardboard and 13 leds and arduino uno | 18:57 |
| Vicarious | https://hackerspaces.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/foto.jpg | 18:58 |
| Vicarious | and made a lamp from an old empty macintosh se/30 case | 18:58 |
| kanzure | Vicarious: do you know pieter van boheeman | 18:59 |
| Vicarious | and I do some lockpicking, one of the few who maintain the network infrastructure of the building, etc | 18:59 |
| kanzure | or jelmer cnossen | 18:59 |
| kanzure | or koen martens | 18:59 |
| Vicarious | kanzure: no, don't know either of those | 18:59 |
| Vicarious | I know koen | 18:59 |
| Vicarious | aka gmc | 18:59 |
| kanzure | hrm well close enough i guess | 18:59 |
| Vicarious | he's from RevSpace, hackerspace in The Hague | 19:00 |
| kanzure | pieter is running around the internet trying to organize a do-it-yourself biohacking event in tandem with open science summit 2012 | 19:00 |
| kanzure | with joseph jackson | 19:00 |
| Vicarious | ok | 19:00 |
| kanzure | anyway, i just remembered that pieter is in your area so maybe he goes to your hackerspace | 19:00 |
| Vicarious | our hackerspace is in the very far south of .nl | 19:01 |
| Vicarious | heerlen | 19:01 |
| Vicarious | looks like pieter is from the hague | 19:01 |
| joshcryer | What kind of biohacking can you show off? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | i know nothing of yuor geography | 19:01 |
| kanzure | *your | 19:02 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: what? | 19:02 |
| Vicarious | sylph_mako: btw, having a magnet in the back of the hand does have an advantage.. last year at Chaos Communication Camp conference, I was making some throwies (led, battery and neodymium magnet wrapped in tape) and attached one throwie to my hand | 19:04 |
| joshcryer | "do-it-yourself biohacking event" | 19:06 |
| Vicarious | it was useful at night, had both hands available, didn't have to carry a flashlight while I climbed in my tent or when I went to the toilet, etc | 19:06 |
| joshcryer | What does one do at events but show off stuff? | 19:06 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: give tutorials, present results, poster sessions, brainstorming, microscope show-and-tell, trade petri dishes.. | 19:06 |
| kanzure | impromptu hardware plug-and-play stuff | 19:07 |
| Vicarious | really going home now :) | 19:12 |
| ParahSailin_ | you put a magnet in your hand? | 19:15 |
| bkero | Where'd you source the magnet? | 19:16 |
| bkero | who'd you get to inject it and in which finger? | 19:16 |
| sylph_mako | not finger | 19:16 |
| Vicarious | who? me? | 19:16 |
| bkero | oh back of hand | 19:22 |
| bkero | I need to learn to read the back buffer | 19:22 |
| Vicarious | yes, did you see the url? :) | 19:22 |
| bkero | nope | 19:24 |
| Vicarious | ok | 19:24 |
| ParahSailin_ | you should get that mole looked at | 19:25 |
| bkero | dude that subdermal didn't go very well | 19:25 |
| Vicarious | that's where the magnet is, probably didn't inserted it deep enough | 19:26 |
| Vicarious | Did it myself, piercing/tattoo studio wouldn't do it | 19:27 |
| bkero | yeah | 19:27 |
| Vicarious | I tried to put it in my fingertip, but failed | 19:27 |
| bkero | That's where it's supposed to go | 19:28 |
| bkero | but you need to put it at the corner of the tip and the pad | 19:28 |
| Vicarious | I know | 19:28 |
| bkero | from slightly on the pad side | 19:28 |
| Vicarious | Didn't have a piercers needle or scalpel | 19:28 |
| bkero | that shit is important enough to wait and get the proper tools | 19:35 |
| Vicarious | meh, I sterilized everything, wound didn't get infected, everything is fine | 19:36 |
| bkero | sure | 19:39 |
| bkero | but it was a failed placement | 19:39 |
| yashgaroth | how long after the implantation was that picture taken? does it look less inflamed now? | 19:40 |
| yashgaroth | sorry to keep you up :/ | 19:40 |
| joshcryer | are you lepht? | 19:42 |
| Vicarious | I implanted the magnet early july last year, so that the wound would be healed before Chaos Communication Camp 2011 | 19:43 |
| bkero | Vicarious: were you at fosdem this year? | 19:44 |
| yashgaroth | josh: lepht is british and female so I doubt it | 19:45 |
| joshcryer | yashgaroth, darn. | 19:47 |
| yashgaroth | I don't think she comes in here much | 19:47 |
| Vicarious | I think the photo mentions when it was taken, it still looks the same as in the photo | 19:47 |
| joshcryer | Vicarious, I have a nice deep scar on the back of my hand. | 19:48 |
| joshcryer | From... removing a transmission in a car. | 19:48 |
| Vicarious | ok | 19:49 |
| bkero | those happen | 19:49 |
| bkero | I've done that twice. Both times they were transversely mounted FWD style, and I had to literally get under the car, hug the transmission, and get someone to pull me out from under the car | 19:50 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 19:50 | |
| Vicarious | just got home.. | 19:51 |
| joshcryer | gore kinda: http://i52.tinypic.com/2klbf5.jpg | 19:51 |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:52 | |
| sylph_mako | Personally I'm reluctant to let go of the property of being entirely magnetically inert. I just think it's neat. You're not gonna get another chance like this in your transhuman life. | 19:52 |
| sylph_mako | I'm going to miss running naked through EMR rooms. | 19:52 |
| Vicarious | bkero: I ordered the minimum amount of 20 magnets from supermagnete.nl: http://www.supermagnete.nl/eng/S-02-01-N | 19:53 |
| Vicarious | and ordered a package of sugru | 19:53 |
| bkero | oh christ | 19:54 |
| yashgaroth | I believe people on biohack still have some of the parylene-coated magnets from the group buy | 19:54 |
| bkero | You'r enot telling me you have sugru embedded beneath your skin | 19:54 |
| kanzure | bkero: someone was popularizing using sugru | 19:55 |
| bkero | kanzure: is the composition of sugru stable? Is it going to fuck with some biochemical pathways? | 19:55 |
| bkero | more than something like silicon? | 19:55 |
| bkero | *silicone | 19:55 |
| Vicarious | couldn't find where I could order 7mm hollow piercers needles from, so I used a sharp knife instead.. I thought it would be as good as a scalpel, but I'm a noob | 19:55 |
| Vicarious | lepht suggested either sugru or hot glue in her lecture on 27C3 | 19:56 |
| Vicarious | as bioproof coating material | 19:57 |
| Vicarious | magnet coated in sugru has been under my skin for 8 months now, haven't experienced any problems so far | 19:58 |
| Vicarious | even though it's not in the fingertip where it's supposed to be, I can still feel the power supply of my laptop when it gets near the magnet | 20:00 |
| Vicarious | or another magnet when it gets near | 20:00 |
| Vicarious | and no, I haven't attended fosdem | 20:04 |
| Vicarious | in a couple hours I'm attending the opening party of another hackerspace in the netherlands, going to take a nap now | 20:06 |
| Vicarious | goodnight | 20:08 |
| vrs | yashgaroth: yep, I have 20 here | 20:22 |
| vrs | haven't implanted one yet, but worn one attached to my finger with surgical tape | 20:22 |
| vrs | bkero: hm well, you need to ask people like lepht who use sugru coating and not parylene coating | 20:23 |
| vrs | but as far as I know, it's pretty bioproof | 20:23 |
| yashgaroth | hey vrs can you send me a few? I'll give you monies | 20:23 |
| vrs | I haven't been to biohack in a while, do they have a second group buy running? | 20:24 |
| vrs | Vicarious: sovereignbleak did a video about his install procedure | 20:24 |
| yashgaroth | no idea, though the company they used last time is down the street from me | 20:24 |
| vrs | lepht did too, but it was on megavideo... | 20:24 |
| vrs | yashgaroth: nice | 20:25 |
| vrs | wait lemme dig it up | 20:25 |
| vrs | http://vimeo.com/23836862 | 20:25 |
| yashgaroth | I've been thinking about trying the tape; if it survives the magnetic stir plates I work with every day, I'll probably get an implant | 20:25 |
| vrs | tape is definitely the way to test | 20:25 |
| vrs | what I experienced after a few days was that I could sense magnetic materials and static fields from a few mm to cm | 20:26 |
| vrs | implants give you more the dynamic type | 20:26 |
| vrs | (I heard) | 20:27 |
| yashgaroth | I'd imagine so, especially if you get a nerve close by | 20:27 |
| vrs | I put the procedure off due to lack of money so far, and I don't know if I'm hardcore enough for DIY | 20:28 |
| yashgaroth | no way I'm trusting myself with that, I'll probably head to AZ and have haworth do it if he's still active | 20:29 |
| vrs | you shouldn't do it entirely yourself anyway | 20:29 |
| vrs | have a friend help you or something | 20:29 |
| yashgaroth | someone who isn't fumbling with a scalpel as they bleed out | 20:30 |
| vrs | exactly | 20:30 |
| yashgaroth | too bad I never befriended any pre-meds in school | 20:30 |
| Vicarious | vrs: I've seen those videos.. I used icewater to numb my finger, sharp knife instead of piercers needle or scalpel | 20:31 |
| vrs | how did it work out? | 20:31 |
| vrs | mh reading backlog | 20:32 |
| vrs | you'd need a *very* sharp knife | 20:32 |
| Vicarious | items from a first aid kit I had at home to sterilize the knife and skin and magnet with sugru coating | 20:32 |
| vrs | sterilize everything | 20:33 |
| Vicarious | I did | 20:33 |
| vrs | good | 20:33 |
| Vicarious | no infections | 20:33 |
| Vicarious | wound healed fine as expected | 20:33 |
| vrs | I might just try that in some less visible area too | 20:33 |
| yashgaroth | vicarious: did you use stitches or superglue or something to close it? | 20:37 |
| Vicarious | I follow a first aid / fire safety / evacuation course every year at the local fire department, so I know some basics about sterilization and bandages and bandaids ;) | 20:37 |
| Vicarious | yashgaroth: it was a small incision, so I used a sterile dressing pad and bandage from the same first aid kit | 20:40 |
| Vicarious | replaced the dressing pad daily with a new one | 20:41 |
| yashgaroth | I ask because you don't seem to have any scarring, which is impressive | 20:41 |
| Vicarious | later I replaced them with a smaller adhesive dressing pad and after that regular bandaids | 20:42 |
| Vicarious | anyway, nap ;) | 20:44 |
| yashgaroth | yes, sleep | 20:44 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 20:52 | |
| ParahSailin_ | id like someone to help me take a dermal biopsy for fibroblasts | 21:02 |
| yashgaroth | your fibroblasts? | 21:02 |
| ParahSailin_ | hells yeah | 21:02 |
| yashgaroth | planning on needing a skin transplant? | 21:03 |
| ParahSailin_ | no i just wanna make some ips cells | 21:03 |
| ParahSailin_ | chill em in nitrogen until i need them | 21:03 |
| yashgaroth | you're gonna need some MEF cells too, if they still use those for the protocol | 21:04 |
| ParahSailin_ | no, people can do them with just autologous fibroblasts | 21:06 |
| yashgaroth | I'll admit I haven't been keeping up on ESC culturing methods | 21:07 |
| -!- Etherael [~Eric@r49-2-8-56.cpe.vividwireless.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:22 | |
| -!- Etherael [~Eric@r49-2-8-56.cpe.vividwireless.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:25 | |
| -!- zacharycohn [~zacharyco@c-98-247-247-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zacharycohn] | 21:28 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 21:28 | |
| -!- ybit2 [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:44 | |
| -!- yottabit [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 21:45 | |
| -!- strages_2600 [~strages@256.makerslocal.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 21:51 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 22:09 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:09 | |
| kanzure | grr yaml still does not do ordered dictionaries | 22:16 |
| joshcryer | Will !!omap work? | 22:19 |
| kanzure | ConstructorError: while constructing an ordered map | 22:27 |
| kanzure | expected a sequence, but found mapping in "<string>", line 1, column 1: !!omap | 22:27 |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-175-14.shv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 22:29 | |
| kanzure | "!!omap\n- 123: hi\n- 123A: yepr\n- '0047': noooo" | 22:29 |
| kanzure | this seriously defeats the purpose of readability | 22:29 |
| kanzure | so now all of my dictionaries look like lists | 22:29 |
| joshcryer | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5121931/in-python-how-can-you-load-yaml-mappings-as-ordereddicts | 22:30 |
| kanzure | yes i know how to use google | 22:31 |
| kanzure | their ticket hasn't been closed for three years | 22:31 |
| kanzure | this gives me the right to complain | 22:31 |
| joshcryer | Did you try what that guy "came up with" which he claims "does work"? | 22:32 |
| kanzure | that's a monkeypatch man | 22:33 |
| kanzure | bleh | 22:35 |
| kanzure | fine | 22:35 |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-168-127.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:36 | |
| joshcryer | (For what it's worth I don't care about complaining or anything like that, I was just trying to be helpful.) | 22:39 |
| kanzure | yaml.load("a: hi\nb: yep\nc: no\n1: hooooray", OrderedDictYAMLLoader) | 22:40 |
| kanzure | OrderedDict([('a', 'hi'), ('b', 'yep'), ('c', False), (1, 'hooooray')]) | 22:40 |
| kanzure | yaml.dump(OrderedDict([('a', 'hi'), ('b', 'yep'), ('c', False), (1, 'hooooray')])) | 22:40 |
| kanzure | '!!python/object/apply:ordereddict.OrderedDict\n- - - a\n - hi\n - - b\n - yep\n - - c\n - false\n - - 1\n - hooooray\n' | 22:40 |
| kanzure | that's not very close to the original input | 22:40 |
| kanzure | even when i set default_flow_style=False | 22:41 |
| joshcryer | Try json.dumps ? | 22:41 |
| kanzure | json is not yaml | 22:41 |
| kanzure | i don't want json | 22:42 |
| joshcryer | json is yaml, yaml is not json, technically. | 22:42 |
| -!- uniqanomaly_ [~ua@dynamic-78-8-82-125.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:42 | |
| kanzure | json syntax is a subset of yaml syntax, yes | 22:43 |
| kanzure | anyway, no i don't want json | 22:43 |
| joshcryer | Just try it man, you can always convert json to yaml. Something is broke, work around it. :P | 22:44 |
| kanzure | yes, i use json all the time | 22:44 |
| kanzure | the whole point of using yaml is the pretty formatting which json lacks | 22:44 |
| -!- uniqanomaly [~ua@dynamic-78-8-82-125.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:44 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-24-94-5-223.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:05 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:09 | |
| joshcryer | kanzure, I think you'll find if you put that text in a variable and dump and load it the result will be the same... | 23:16 |
| joshcryer | !!python/object/apply:ordereddict.OrderedDict | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - - - a | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - hi | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - - b | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - yep | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - - c | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - false | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - - 1 | 23:17 |
| joshcryer | - hooooray | 23:17 |
| kanzure | yeah but that's not how i want my text formatted at all | 23:18 |
| kanzure | notice that - - 1 is a list of a list | 23:18 |
| sylph_mako | You people call yourselves transhumanists. Use a binary serialization format with a viewing augmentation! | 23:18 |
| kanzure | even though the !! identifier will force it to be loaded as an OrderedDict in python2.6 | 23:18 |
| sylph_mako | Admittedly there are no viewing augmentations. | 23:18 |
| sylph_mako | I'm working on it. | 23:18 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, you want this: | 23:21 |
| joshcryer | !!python/object/apply:collections.OrderedDict | 23:21 |
| joshcryer | - - [a, hi] | 23:21 |
| joshcryer | - [1, hooooray] | 23:21 |
| joshcryer | - [c, false] | 23:21 |
| joshcryer | - [b, yep] | 23:21 |
| joshcryer | ? | 23:21 |
| kanzure | i want this: | 23:22 |
| kanzure | a: hi | 23:22 |
| kanzure | b: yep | 23:22 |
| kanzure | c: false | 23:22 |
| kanzure | this is not hard :( | 23:22 |
| joshcryer | I blame PyYAML. | 23:23 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 23:30 | |
| -!- ybit2 [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:32 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:41 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-194-101.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 23:42 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:46 | |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@slim.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:58 | |
| --- Log closed Sat Mar 03 00:00:35 2012 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
