| --- Log opened Thu Mar 22 00:00:02 2012 | ||
| -!- any49312406 [~someone@75-120-43-13.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:02 | |
| -!- any46667927 [~someone@75-120-16-70.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:05 | |
| -!- any49312406 [~someone@75-120-43-13.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 00:08 | |
| -!- any46667927 is now known as katsmeow-afk | 00:11 | |
| -!- katsmeow-afk [~someone@75-120-16-70.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Changing host] | 00:11 | |
| -!- katsmeow-afk [~someone@unaffiliated/katsmeow] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:11 | |
| joshcryer | I'm kind of blown away by this amazingness: http://www.soundhelix.com/audio-examples | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 00:19 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 00:36 | |
| sylph_mako | I'm not sure I can handle it. | 00:37 |
| joshcryer | It would take me weeks to make one of these pieces and it wouldn't be nearly as good. (Haven't tracked in ages.) | 00:47 |
| joshcryer | This software needs a proper frontend though. | 00:48 |
| sylph_mako | I see that they only distribute windows binaries? So the backend's probably not very good either xB | 00:49 |
| sylph_mako | I'm guessing it's just a command line tool? | 00:50 |
| joshcryer | It's a jar, run on any platform with MIDI output. | 00:51 |
| joshcryer | (Java) | 00:51 |
| joshcryer | And yeah, it's command line, you tell it to make music with .xml files but its default mode is random. Frankly I've been listening to its random regurgitations for the past two hours, I'm just in awe. | 00:51 |
| joshcryer | I've heard jazz, piano, trance, pop, whole nine yards. | 00:52 |
| sylph_mako | well ima get on that bitch and start then! | 00:56 |
| sylph_mako | C8 | 01:00 |
| joshcryer | I hate XML. :( | 01:00 |
| sylph_mako | What would you prefer. | 01:01 |
| joshcryer | YAML or hell... .ini. | 01:01 |
| joshcryer | I mean, if I have to edit a file. | 01:01 |
| joshcryer | I'd prefer a proper frontend. :) | 01:01 |
| sylph_mako | I'm more of a protocol buffer guy myself. | 01:02 |
| sylph_mako | xJ | 01:02 |
| sylph_mako | I wish that were an option. | 01:02 |
| sylph_mako | I just like the idea of eschewing text. It's a part of my transhumanism. The only reason humans can't read the stuff as well as the target program is the lack of a human aug. | 01:03 |
| joshcryer | Ahh, yes, that would be a proper frontend. :D | 01:04 |
| joshcryer | But I'd be OK with a nice GUI for now. One with sliders and pretty buttons. :) | 01:05 |
| fenn | music hits a lot of brain regions already | 01:08 |
| fenn | i'd be cautious plugging something into so many places and accepting arbitrary input | 01:08 |
| jrayhawk | a singularity of good vibrations might occur | 01:14 |
| jrayhawk | hard beat takeoff | 01:14 |
| fenn | more like you'll get a pepsi ad and your heart stops because they didnt test it with all versions | 01:15 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:15 | |
| fenn | i mean look at what stupid shit people do under the influence of words | 01:16 |
| jrayhawk | some of them buy buckets of saturated fat! | 01:17 |
| * fenn points at the bible, world wars, flag waving of all sorts | 01:17 | |
| fenn | hey fat is tasty | 01:17 |
| fenn | nobody has to tell you to eat | 01:17 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/health/the-lipid-hypothesis-can-suck-it.jpg | 01:18 |
| fenn | light coconut milk? | 01:18 |
| fenn | isnt that like, coconut milk and water? | 01:18 |
| jrayhawk | sometimes i need a refreshing drink | 01:18 |
| jrayhawk | Yes, but it's hard to find BPA and guar-free coconut milk, so that's what I settle for | 01:19 |
| fenn | "65% less coconut milk than regular coconut milk" | 01:19 |
| sylph_mako | joshcryer, I keep getting the exact same piano roll coming up. ;_; | 01:20 |
| * fenn skims the wikipedia entry on BPA | 01:21 | |
| jrayhawk | BPA is a bit of an industry scapegoat; lost of components of lots of plastics have significant estrogenic activity | 01:23 |
| jrayhawk | s/lost/lots | 01:23 |
| jrayhawk | but hey, it's a start | 01:23 |
| fenn | i can never figure out how to get to full text from the ncbi page | 01:26 |
| fenn | ah it's an image in a weird place | 01:26 |
| -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-24-173.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] | 01:27 | |
| jrayhawk | http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.1003220 if you haven't already run across it | 01:27 |
| fenn | yes plastic bottles and coated cans emit estrogen analogs, okay, but what are the actual health risks and is it greater than the cost of switching to some other can liner, i'd like to see an analysis of that | 01:30 |
| fenn | i mean we still burn coal and it rains mercury ash into the water supply | 01:31 |
| fenn | and people are freaking out about cans? | 01:31 |
| fenn | lots of toxic chemicals around, just because they exist doesn't mean i'm getting high enough dosage to worry about it | 01:32 |
| jrayhawk | mercury's not much of an issue if you have sufficient selenium intake | 01:33 |
| fenn | fructose for example, toxic chemical present in high doses in a variety of canned goods | 01:33 |
| jrayhawk | and the whole "we shouldn't care about x bad thing because y bad thing is twice as bad" seems a bit bizarre | 01:33 |
| jrayhawk | i prefer to care about both! | 01:33 |
| fenn | don't see any "fructose free" craze going on, why not? | 01:33 |
| fenn | i'm just saying the real world has tradeoffs | 01:34 |
| fenn | i haven't seen evidence that i should be worried about BPA from common can liners, but again i haven't really looked | 01:34 |
| jrayhawk | and calling fructose a toxin is a little ridiculous; our bodies are designed to metabolize it very quickly without satiety and drive it straight to fat storage. | 01:35 |
| fenn | the dose makes the poison | 01:35 |
| jrayhawk | Which is good when an apple grove is only usable for two weeks right before winter | 01:35 |
| lichen | i was under the impression that BPA only really leached out in noticable quantities if heat was applied | 01:35 |
| jrayhawk | it is not good when the apple grove exists year round | 01:35 |
| fenn | fructose is present in high enough amounts in food to cause negative health effects | 01:36 |
| fenn | can you say the same for BPA? | 01:36 |
| jrayhawk | Xenoestrogens do not have any apparent benefit. | 01:36 |
| lichen | phytoestrogens can cause a lot of issues | 01:36 |
| jrayhawk | Yes, I also don't eat soy. | 01:37 |
| lichen | afaik phytoestrogens in women compete for estrogen receptors but dont activate them as strongly | 01:37 |
| lichen | so they can have inverse effects for women in some ways | 01:37 |
| lichen | unless youre menopausal to the point where that bit of activation is helpful | 01:38 |
| jrayhawk | Uh, well, hopefully your receptors are not the chokepoint | 01:38 |
| jrayhawk | since that would, in this specific case, be catastrophic and, in the general case, sortof defeat the point of a hormone | 01:40 |
| lichen | yep | 01:40 |
| -!- Steel3 [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:42 | |
| Steel3 | anyone here read quantum thief? | 01:43 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15975703/ "Implications for human health of the extensive bisphenol A literature showing adverse effects at low doses" | 01:43 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:43 | |
| * fenn reads | 01:44 | |
| Steel3 | it's supposedly pretty hard scifi transhuman/post singularity stuff (yes I know there's a differentiation) | 01:45 |
| jrayhawk | Unfortunately as usual it's mostly animal experiments and human epidemiology... | 01:46 |
| fenn | if lurkers would like to follow along http://fennetic.net/irc/Implications_for_human_health_of_the_extensive_bisphenol_A_literature.pdf | 01:48 |
| jrayhawk | Maybe when the singularity comes, humans will be expendible and we can finally get some proper answers on medical questions. | 01:50 |
| fenn | hopefully robots will be expendable by then also | 01:53 |
| jrayhawk | huh, that paper doesn't even mention the thyroid effects | 02:01 |
| jrayhawk | oh yeah, and insulin regulation nerds like fructose for its ability to exclusively refill liver glycogen | 02:05 |
| jrayhawk | a use-case for which it has basically no metabolic downside | 02:06 |
| jrayhawk | (as opposed to the liver-glycogen-is-already-full usecase, which has, as you apparently already know, potentially unfortunate tradeoffs) | 02:06 |
| fenn | fortunately i am able to get adequate carbohydrate intake and don't have to worry about that | 02:10 |
| fenn | so, much of the negative health effects were about fetal development | 02:11 |
| Steel3 | ughhh | 02:19 |
| Steel3 | card continues to ruin ender's game by writing more in that universe as he slowly goes crazy | 02:19 |
| fenn | the graphs are not very convincing for BPA, only one of them even looks like a downward sloping line http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.1103582 | 02:25 |
| fenn | no idea what the units on y axis are though | 02:27 |
| -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] | 02:28 | |
| fenn | seems like beta glucosidase would be a pretty sweet upgrade, you'd be able to digest cellulose | 02:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | http://pastebin.com/JRLK3MLV | 03:08 |
| Mokbortolan_ | wtf? | 03:08 |
| fenn | decompilation result | 03:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | srsly? | 03:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hmm | 03:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | darn | 03:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | everything else came over so nicely | 03:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | does that mean they just obfuscated that bit of code? | 03:10 |
| fenn | you may wish to provide more context | 03:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's from an APK I decompiled | 03:10 |
| fenn | er, i don't know about .jar files but usually variable names are discarded upon compilation unless various debug flags are turned on or the functions are linked to from other binaries | 03:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I've got 100+ other functions that are perfectly legible | 03:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | some with comments | 03:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'll just have to play with it, I guess | 03:14 |
| Steel3 | https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/InsideSystemStorage/entry/ibm_watson_how_to_build_your_own_watson_jr_in_your_basement7?lang=en | 03:24 |
| -!- marainein [~marainein@220-253-24-173.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:31 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-81-88.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 03:36 | |
| fenn | mmm picky eater approved, now with mannan oligosaccharides! http://www.smartpakequine.com/ultraelite-digest-2206p.aspx | 03:45 |
| fenn | why are they feeding threonine to horses? | 03:46 |
| rdb | does compiled Java code ever contain variable names? | 03:53 |
| -!- Steel3 [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has quit [Quit: Page closed] | 04:08 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:20 | |
| -!- thesnark [~thesnark@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:20 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:28 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:00 | |
| -!- Thorbinator_ [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:21 | |
| -!- Thorbinator_ [~Thorbinat@c-67-166-146-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:21 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:45 | |
| -!- ParahSailin__ [~parah@adsl-69-151-192-198.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 06:11 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:11 | |
| -!- Utopiah_ is now known as Utopiah | 06:19 | |
| audy | rdp: I believe so from reading about reverse-compiling java | 06:21 |
| -!- ParahSailin__ [~parah@adsl-69-151-192-198.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:26 | |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: i truly doubt that "getDateRanges" is important to that particular disassembly project | 06:35 |
| -!- Utopiah [~utopiah@rps7452.ovh.net] has quit [Changing host] | 06:36 | |
| -!- Utopiah [~utopiah@unaffiliated/utopiah] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:36 | |
| kanzure | damn it i have to murder someone http://www.theverge.com/users/bcbishop | 06:38 |
| Coornail | window 9 | 06:41 |
| strangewarp | At least your name isn't always taken by an admin | 06:41 |
| strangewarp | I'm pretty sure it's an Internet Rule that every forum, website, and IRC network is required to have an admin named "Chris"... | 06:41 |
| fenn | weird i was just talking about this idea earlier today http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/17/2879543/andrew-bunnie-huang-designs-open-source-geiger-counter | 06:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/03/21/billionaire-paul-g-allen-donates-300-million-in-brain-research-to-understand-what-makes-us-human/print/ | 06:42 |
| fenn | pff a paltry 300 million | 06:42 |
| kanzure | so, total amount invested in the allen brain institute: $500 mil | 06:42 |
| kanzure | "Ed Boyden, an associate professor at the MIT Media Lab who is one of the | 06:43 |
| kanzure | pioneers in the field of optogenetics, echoed that sentiment. “The Allen | 06:43 |
| kanzure | Institute is assembling an extraordinary set of tools to tackle brain | 06:43 |
| kanzure | circuitry in a vertically integrated way, from the parts lists to how they | 06:43 |
| kanzure | all work together,” he wrote via Facebook chat. “It is impossible for an | 06:43 |
| kanzure | ordinary lab group to bring all these pieces together.”" | 06:43 |
| kanzure | lol... getting ed's opinion via facebook chat | 06:43 |
| fenn | don't you know? email is so 1990's | 06:44 |
| kanzure | clearly facebook chat is the optimal way to communicate with uh, optogenetics experts or something | 06:44 |
| fenn | 417 posts, you've got some catching up to do | 06:46 |
| fenn | looks like he just trolls press release pages and turns them into soundbites | 06:48 |
| kanzure | "DSI is a refinement of the two-decades-old | 06:48 |
| kanzure | diffusion tensor imaging technique, which exploits MRI's ability to detect | 06:48 |
| kanzure | the direction in which water molecules are moving at each point in the brain. | 06:48 |
| kanzure | Because most of those molecules move along the lengths of nerve fibres, like | 06:48 |
| kanzure | water through a pipe, the data can be used to reconstruct each fibre's | 06:48 |
| kanzure | location and trajectory." | 06:49 |
| kanzure | "What DSI adds is a more sophisticated form of signal | 06:49 |
| kanzure | analysis that allows researchers to continue tracing fibre bundles even when | 06:49 |
| kanzure | one seems to pass behind another, a situation that posed serious problems for | 06:49 |
| kanzure | the older technique." | 06:49 |
| kanzure | fenn: but that's exactly what i do! | 06:49 |
| fenn | you didn't know about diffusion imaging? | 06:49 |
| kanzure | i knew about mri reporters | 06:50 |
| kanzure | same thing? | 06:50 |
| fenn | it's behind those cool images on the cover of olaf sporns' books | 06:51 |
| kanzure | "A week after my visit to the Martinos Center, I received my DSI data. Using | 06:51 |
| kanzure | free software from the centre, it is easy to explore the architecture of my | 06:51 |
| kanzure | brain. I can clearly see my hippocampus, and the vast array of fibres | 06:51 |
| kanzure | dataaaa :3 i want it | 06:51 |
| kanzure | projecting from the midbrain sensory hubs up to my cerebral cortex. I am | 06:51 |
| kanzure | overwhelmed by the visible detail and obvious organization." | 06:51 |
| fenn | tractography: what is it good for? | 06:53 |
| kanzure | well i imagine that information would be useful if you were stimulating particular regions of your brain | 06:54 |
| fenn | so remember the "targeted" deep brain stimulation? | 06:54 |
| fenn | they're assuming a uniform conductor, but clearly that's not anything like reality | 06:54 |
| kanzure | that was with tdcs | 06:55 |
| fenn | right, there's only so many words i can type | 06:55 |
| kanzure | i am not too excited by tdcs | 06:55 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] | 06:56 | |
| fenn | if you had a map of the rough conductivity it might work | 06:57 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:57 | |
| kanzure | i suspect most of the high-level detail is the same between people anyway :/ | 06:57 |
| fenn | well it's not going to be precise no matter what | 06:58 |
| fenn | learnjs.info is neato | 07:01 |
| fenn | i mean i like it, not that it's a graph layout algorithm :P | 07:01 |
| kanzure | click the bottom link (python version) | 07:02 |
| fenn | that one seemed to lock up the tab | 07:02 |
| kanzure | the one that doesn't execute in your browser? | 07:02 |
| fenn | it hits x.append(4) and just grinds away | 07:04 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: No route to host] | 07:15 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:16 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 07:19 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:31 | |
| kanzure | i need.. some metal. | 07:43 |
| kanzure | bloodrocuted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UosmKd1krWU | 07:44 |
| kanzure | ok close enough | 07:44 |
| strangewarp | one second | 07:56 |
| strangewarp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptN7OI2TRDo - here is some superior, yet still accessible and catchy, metal | 07:58 |
| strangewarp | flawless album imo | 07:58 |
| strangewarp | I wish Youtube didn't muddy sound quality so much.. alas | 08:00 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:00 | |
| kanzure | strangewarp: thanks | 08:06 |
| -!- AdrianG [~amphetami@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:07 | |
| strangewarp | np | 08:10 |
| kanzure | oh weird.. someone is pitching me an ipad app that goes with photoshop or an image editor | 08:22 |
| kanzure | and the ipad app would control the layering that you are working with on your desktop | 08:22 |
| kanzure | brlcad VMs for GSoC students https://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20for%20Virtual%20Machines/ | 08:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: still alive? | 08:32 |
| AdrianG | are there gamma adjustment apps for iphone, like f.lux | 08:49 |
| AdrianG | or redshift | 08:49 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:ccaf:6e64:8eef:e2dd] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:13 | |
| Coornail | I don't think developers have access to modify things like that | 09:51 |
| Coornail | maybe on android | 09:51 |
| Replop | Neurology : could the brain rewire part of itself to connect to IO implants and use them as other sensory organs ? | 10:00 |
| ThomasEgi | why not? | 10:01 |
| ThomasEgi | the brain is pretty generic when it comes to adapting to tasks. | 10:02 |
| Replop | there is potential. | 10:04 |
| kanzure | Replop: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/ | 10:07 |
| Replop | thanks | 10:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Replop: it absolutely can | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | check out brainport | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that's one | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | same researcher built another system comprised of a belt lined with pager vibrator motors | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and a digital compass, such that the northmost motor vibrated | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | he's dead now, unfortunately | 10:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but his colleagues are carrying on some of the work, trying to commercialize the brainport vision system | 10:16 |
| Replop | neat. Now, what happen when you want to upgrade the hardware : and need to change the implants ? open-brain surgery isn't nice. | 10:17 |
| Coornail | well you only need very simple and small things in your brain | 10:18 |
| Coornail | you could have more complicated things outside of your skull | 10:18 |
| Coornail | of course you'll have to relearn the new hardware | 10:18 |
| Coornail | but that's all | 10:18 |
| lichen | all the brain needs is the inputs | 10:18 |
| Replop | yes, | 10:19 |
| lichen | but when you want to upgrade your ports it would be tricky again | 10:19 |
| lichen | well, inputs and outputs rather | 10:19 |
| Coornail | but I don't think that we should touch the brain, we could have interfaces that "talk" to your skin for example | 10:19 |
| Coornail | like the magnetic implats, those are cool example | 10:20 |
| Replop | but that's experimental technology. Immagine what happen with every experimental tech : eventually a more refined, mature version comes around. If there are any amelioration devised on the basic interfaces that goes in the skull..... early adopters are fucked | 10:20 |
| Coornail | but I would really like to see infra-red | 10:20 |
| Coornail | that's kind of different | 10:20 |
| Coornail | eearly adopters are always fucked | 10:20 |
| Replop | of course yes, techs that stay totally outside of the skull would be very nice | 10:20 |
| Replop | they always are , but here , they would be fucked more than financially | 10:21 |
| Coornail | but I think that when we are at the point where it is routine to have suergeries for these kind of things | 10:21 |
| Coornail | I think it won't be a problem to switch a few things | 10:21 |
| Coornail | we'll have to find a solution for a moral problem as well | 10:21 |
| Replop | that would still be multiple neuron connections severed that would need to regrow | 10:22 |
| Replop | which moral problem ? only the rich can affort cool new tech ? | 10:22 |
| lichen | i want to interact with my brain directly | 10:22 |
| Coornail | you know, doctors can't hurt | 10:22 |
| lichen | expand consciousness directly | 10:22 |
| Coornail | so to have a surgery to improve something, and it would risk your life | 10:22 |
| lichen | not just have more senses but more brain faculties | 10:22 |
| Coornail | that would be against doctors moral code | 10:22 |
| kanzure | lichen: consciousness is insufficiently scientific for this channel | 10:22 |
| kanzure | take your bone-headed theories elsewhere :P | 10:23 |
| Replop | we already have that issue on cardiac transplant, isn't it ? | 10:23 |
| Coornail | because you are esseentially fully healthy | 10:23 |
| lichen | by consciousness i mean the internal world-model in the brain | 10:23 |
| Replop | okay, that doesn't totally apply | 10:23 |
| lichen | and the qualia of experience | 10:23 |
| Coornail | well you are not healthy if you have a cardiac transplant | 10:23 |
| kanzure | lichen: what the fuck is qualia | 10:23 |
| kanzure | no thanks.. | 10:23 |
| lichen | are you joking? | 10:23 |
| kanzure | no | 10:23 |
| lichen | its a neuroscience and philosophy term | 10:24 |
| kanzure | i'm aware of "qualia" but really, no thanks | 10:24 |
| kanzure | it's not really a neuroscience term | 10:24 |
| Replop | lichen: a candidate for a billion euros fund is a total model of the human brain | 10:24 |
| kanzure | Replop: do you mean markram's project? | 10:24 |
| lichen | its the term for subjective mental experience | 10:24 |
| Replop | maybe. no idea. I'm googling for the specific name | 10:24 |
| Replop | I mean the Blue Brain project : http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/ | 10:24 |
| kanzure | Replop: you might enjoy watching his 2005 talk.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2874207418572601262 | 10:24 |
| kanzure | yes that is markram.. | 10:25 |
| Replop | ^^ | 10:25 |
| kanzure | watch the video :) skip the first 10 minutes though. | 10:25 |
| Replop | wadsworth constant, I presume | 10:25 |
| Replop | oh. no. | 10:25 |
| lichen | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWmTJALe1w | 10:26 |
| Mariu | has anyone noticed or become aware of: Blue field entoptic phenomenon or Scheerer's phenomenon ? | 10:26 |
| lichen | vs ramachandran on consciousness and qualia | 10:26 |
| kanzure | lichen: not interested. at all. | 10:26 |
| kanzure | ramachandran does some good vision research | 10:26 |
| kanzure | consciousness is a lot like mind/body duality, "souls" and other crap like before | 10:27 |
| kanzure | qualia too | 10:28 |
| kanzure | all of that stuff needs to go | 10:28 |
| lichen | consciousness isnt inherently dualism | 10:28 |
| lichen | you can speak about consciousness in terms of physicalism | 10:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | listen kanzure, if you're just open your your crown chakra.... | 10:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | 'd | 10:28 |
| lichen | which clearly | 10:28 |
| kanzure | "Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is" | 10:28 |
| lichen | you ascribe to | 10:28 |
| kanzure | yawn.. philosophy | 10:28 |
| Mariu | I agree with kanzure on this one | 10:28 |
| lichen | i find philosophy highly interesting | 10:29 |
| lichen | and i see metaphysics and science as intricately bound | 10:29 |
| kanzure | lichen: it's interesting but wrong | 10:29 |
| lichen | im not having this debate with you | 10:29 |
| Mariu | lichen, then go into quantum mechanics | 10:29 |
| lichen | ^ | 10:29 |
| kanzure | quantum what now?? | 10:29 |
| Replop | philosophy is sometimes usefull, but it is often used to talk about what people have no idea. | 10:29 |
| kanzure | geeze we're ust talking about the brain | 10:29 |
| kanzure | no reason to talk about quantum anything | 10:29 |
| kanzure | *just | 10:29 |
| Mariu | gotcha | 10:30 |
| Mariu | kanzure, you know about Eliminative Materialism ? | 10:30 |
| kanzure | lichen: "he most compelling argument for the existence of consciousness is that the vast majority of mankind have an overwhelming intuition that there truly is such a thing.[18] Skeptics argue that this intuition, in spite of its compelling quality, is false, either because the concept of consciousness is intrinsically incoherent, or because our intuitions about it are based in illusions." | 10:30 |
| lichen | first you must define what it is you are talking about | 10:31 |
| lichen | and when i speak of consciousness i speak of the conscious state of aware thinking | 10:31 |
| kanzure | "Gilbert Ryle, for example, argued that traditional understanding of consciousness depends on a Cartesian dualist outlook that improperly distinguishes between mind and body, or between mind and world. He proposed that we speak not of minds, bodies, and the world, but of individuals, or persons, acting in the world. Thus, by speaking of 'consciousness' we end up misleading ourselves by thinking that there is any sort of thing as consciousness separ | 10:31 |
| lichen | im not saying there is dualism, i am not saying there is anything beyond the physical | 10:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | philosophy allows the most wondeful forms of bloviating, those kind that don't require evidence or any real work besides jaw motion and concatenating large words heard elsewhere | 10:31 |
| lichen | cartesian dualism is one perspective, a rather old one | 10:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh, and I can't discount the efforts of the diaphragm and the musles controlling the vocal chords, lips, and throat muscles | 10:32 |
| lichen | you're ignoring the physicalist side completely | 10:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | those also contribute significantly | 10:32 |
| kanzure | lichen: ? | 10:32 |
| lichen | i'm saying that saying consciousness does not imply dualism | 10:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you're just a blurry fraction of a hologram man, the gaaaawwwwd hologram | 10:33 |
| Mariu | there's no god | 10:34 |
| lichen | sometimes talking to science folks is just as bad as talking to religious folk | 10:34 |
| kanzure | lichen: even if it doesn't imply dualism, i don't see where you're going with this | 10:34 |
| kanzure | does thinking about the brain in terms of consciousness provide to you any advantages? or something | 10:34 |
| lichen | my point is that consciousness is a subjective brain state | 10:34 |
| Mokbortolan_ | there's no god because the distinction between god and self is a product of the instantiation of you biological form, man | 10:34 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: you should learn from jrayhawk how to troll better | 10:35 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :( | 10:35 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: because you're *almost* there.. but not quite | 10:35 |
| * Mokbortolan_ takes more mushrooms and puts on a paisley headband. | 10:35 | |
| lichen | dismissing anything to do with consciousness might shut you off from positive leads | 10:35 |
| kanzure | leads on what | 10:35 |
| lichen | understanding of the brain | 10:36 |
| Mariu | that's the wrong approach, lichen | 10:36 |
| kanzure | by introspection? | 10:36 |
| lichen | you can focus on the specific functions of the brain and that's fine | 10:36 |
| lichen | i didn't say introspection, though i like to do that myself, that wasn't what i said | 10:36 |
| kanzure | well, i was asking | 10:36 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: honestly though, the study of consciousness - or what we call consciousness - can certainly help us learn more about the brain | 10:36 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: i have no idea what consciousness is. how the hell am i supposed to study that? | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | by defining it first | 10:37 |
| kanzure | um | 10:37 |
| lichen | what Mokbortolan_ said | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and then studying, and redefining | 10:37 |
| kanzure | if i don't know what it is how would i be able to define it | 10:37 |
| lichen | and i was providing a defnition that does not box you into dualism | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | look at people with damaged bits of brain | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: well, we can quickly define two states, conscious, and unconscious | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | asleep or awake | 10:37 |
| kanzure | asleep is not conscious? | 10:37 |
| kanzure | i think conscious and consciousness are talking about two different things? | 10:38 |
| lichen | its fuzzy | 10:38 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yes, because that's how we're defining it | 10:38 |
| kanzure | i think people say "a sleeping person has consciousness" | 10:38 |
| lichen | dreamless sleep is unconscious | 10:38 |
| Mokbortolan_ | words are just handy labels | 10:38 |
| kanzure | so i think you're talking about something else Mokbortolan_ | 10:38 |
| Coornail | ohm and what about animals? | 10:38 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: this is not a handy label. i still don't know what you are takling about. | 10:38 |
| Coornail | do they have a conciousness | 10:38 |
| lichen | its hard to ask them | 10:38 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: ok, how is a sleeping person quantitatively different than a waking person? | 10:38 |
| Mokbortolan_ | what is that difference? for the purposes of discussion, we can call that difference "consciousness" | 10:38 |
| lichen | internal qualia | 10:39 |
| Coornail | animals are inferior because they can't speak that they are not inferior? | 10:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | then the question is, what is that? | 10:39 |
| lichen | of course not Coornail, just makes it harder to study | 10:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so we can look at people with damaged brains who are constantly asleep | 10:39 |
| kanzure | lichen: you can't define something by making up new words like qualia, to describe sleep | 10:39 |
| Coornail | hehe, sorry | 10:39 |
| lichen | i'm not making up a word | 10:39 |
| Coornail | do we want to make it easier? =D | 10:39 |
| lichen | qualia has a very specific meaning | 10:39 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: i don't think you're talking about what lichen is talking about | 10:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh | 10:39 |
| lichen | we are | 10:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | well | 10:39 |
| kanzure | how do you know | 10:39 |
| lichen | are you trolling or what | 10:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'm not trolling | 10:40 |
| kanzure | no. | 10:40 |
| Mokbortolan_ | right now | 10:40 |
| lichen | not you, kanzure | 10:40 |
| lichen | or rather no Mokbortolan_ | 10:40 |
| lichen | not* | 10:40 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I mean, the word "consciousness" is a label that for the purpose of discussion we are assigning to whatever it is you "have" when you're awake vs when you're asleep | 10:40 |
| lichen | yes | 10:40 |
| lichen | and if you want to get more specific | 10:40 |
| Coornail | not trolling | 10:40 |
| kanzure | ok can you be more specific than that | 10:40 |
| Coornail | just didn't follow | 10:40 |
| lichen | you can specify dreamless sleep | 10:41 |
| Coornail | sorry | 10:41 |
| kanzure | can you talk to me in terms of brains, neuroanatomy or neuroscience | 10:41 |
| kanzure | and not psychology :| | 10:41 |
| lichen | the state of mind lacking subjective awareness | 10:41 |
| kanzure | "dreams" are cool and all but, to the best of my knowledge, it's like some hippocampal feedbak on the frontal cortex | 10:41 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it might be that there are several distinct states to be in besides "conscious" and "unconscious", like there are many types of quarks | 10:41 |
| Coornail | so what if we specify consciousness as the state in which you precieve the world how most people percieve it? | 10:41 |
| Coornail | that way we exclude dellusional people, sleeping people | 10:41 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but only a few are in wide use | 10:41 |
| Coornail | animals, etc | 10:41 |
| lichen | i'd argue that delusions are still conscious, but just not an accurate representation of the physical world | 10:42 |
| lichen | the brain screwing up its model | 10:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | misreferencing | 10:42 |
| Coornail | can't argue with that | 10:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the "wife" neural pattern address being transposed with that of a hat | 10:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | for instance | 10:43 |
| lichen | yeah | 10:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I really need to read these ramachandran books I've collected | 10:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that bit with the "limb rejection" was just absolutely fascinating | 10:45 |
| lichen | thats the one with the mirror yeah? | 10:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: but I have read some articles about research into what can be termed the "seat of consciousness" | 10:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | no, that's theone with the guy who didn't want his arm | 10:46 |
| lichen | oh | 10:46 |
| lichen | yeah, body dysmorphic disorder | 10:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and he could draw a very specific irregular pattern to describe where he wanted it to be removed | 10:46 |
| kanzure | "Nothing worth reading has been written on it." | 10:46 |
| lichen | interesting | 10:46 |
| lichen | whose quote is that | 10:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and that ultimately corresponded to his homunculus | 10:46 |
| lichen | and why are they qualified to say that | 10:46 |
| kanzure | lichen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Is_consciousness_a_valid_concept.3F | 10:46 |
| kanzure | above that section | 10:47 |
| lichen | like we keep saying | 10:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | dude | 10:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that was 13 years ago | 10:47 |
| lichen | specify a definition | 10:47 |
| lichen | and you can talk about | 10:47 |
| lichen | and also 13 years ago | 10:47 |
| lichen | wait no | 10:48 |
| lichen | 23 years | 10:48 |
| Mokbortolan_ | 1989... | 10:48 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh god, I'm old! | 10:48 |
| kanzure | math | 10:48 |
| lichen | haha | 10:48 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and bad at math! | 10:48 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: the two worst things | 10:48 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so yeah, 23 years ago | 10:48 |
| Mokbortolan_ | almost a quarter of a century! | 10:48 |
| Mokbortolan_ | think about the computers and techniques they had back then! | 10:48 |
| lichen | sticks and flint | 10:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | did they even have fMRI? | 10:49 |
| lichen | what was it like foraging for food | 10:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | no! they didn't! | 10:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that only came into use in the early 1990's! | 10:49 |
| kanzure | fmri won't help you if you can't define something | 10:49 |
| lichen | alright i need to get going, catch you all later | 10:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | what are you talking about | 10:50 |
| lichen | and kanzure we keep supplying definitions | 10:50 |
| kanzure | they are all circular | 10:50 |
| Mokbortolan_ | put a live person in an fmri, give him secobarbitol | 10:50 |
| Mokbortolan_ | bam | 10:50 |
| kanzure | "SUBJECTIVE INTERNAL CONSCIOUSNESS" | 10:50 |
| lichen | no, what i said was | 10:51 |
| lichen | the subjective world-model inside the brain | 10:51 |
| lichen | and the associated awareness | 10:51 |
| kanzure | ok.. so a 3d scene modeled in opengl with object introspection | 10:52 |
| kanzure | is this the same thing as the working model you'vedescribed? | 10:52 |
| lichen | im not qualified to answer that, but that would be one interesting way of making an AI | 10:52 |
| lichen | though you could skip the opengl | 10:52 |
| kanzure | oh geeze so you also believei n ai | 10:52 |
| kanzure | *believe in | 10:52 |
| lichen | and just have object data | 10:52 |
| lichen | "believe" in ai? | 10:53 |
| lichen | we make this shit already | 10:53 |
| kanzure | nobody knows what "intelligence" is | 10:53 |
| kanzure | same problems as "consciousness" | 10:53 |
| lichen | anyways yeah im done, later | 10:54 |
| kanzure | seeya | 10:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | | nobody (that I respect or know about) knows what "intelligence" is | 10:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ftfy | 10:54 |
| kanzure | nope | 10:54 |
| kanzure | nobody is able to show me a brain and point to the "intelligence" in it | 10:54 |
| kanzure | or generated by it | 10:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so either you've got a flawed understanding or definition of consciousness, or you haven't read the right book yet, or you didn't believe the right answer when you read it, or your estimation of what consciousness isn't is spot on and we're just nowhere close to understanding anything yet and all research and speculation heretofore is incorrect | 10:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | are those the boundaries? | 10:57 |
| kanzure | another possibility is that i am not conscious and therefore unable to comprehend what the hell you're talking about | 10:57 |
| kanzure | i think that's everything yeah. | 10:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sleep-typing? :p | 10:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I think it's likely a combination of B and C | 10:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but that's just my gut feelign | 10:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :p | 10:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or maybe all four | 11:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | although the illusion of free will is an attractive one too | 11:00 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-81-88.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:14 | |
| Replop | kanzure: it was a very interesting talk, indeed. | 11:25 |
| kanzure | Replop: oh you actually watched it | 11:30 |
| kanzure | hooray | 11:30 |
| Replop | of course, it's often a statistical model with lots of hypothesis and assumptions . but at last he's constantly comparing to reality when possible and improvments can only happen | 11:31 |
| kanzure | they use actual neuron cultures to take the readings from in general | 11:32 |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 11:36 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-200-47.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:48 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-81-88.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 12:09 | |
| ParahSailin__ | is network solutions a decent registrar? am i boycotting them for any sopa/pipa reasons? | 12:47 |
| uniqanomaly_ | https://torrentfreak.com/judge-bittorrent-downloads-are-protected-anonymous-speech-120321/ nice | 12:48 |
| -!- uniqanomaly_ is now known as uniqanomaly | 12:48 | |
| kanzure | ParahSailin__: networksolutions is not decent | 12:51 |
| kanzure | they like to take whois queries and pre-register those domains and jack up the prices | 12:52 |
| kanzure | lots of people seem to like gandi or nameheap | 12:52 |
| kanzure | *namecheap | 12:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | namesecure is doing that too? | 12:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | ~10 yrs ago someone else was | 12:53 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] | 13:02 | |
| kanzure | http://www.wimp.com/homemadevortex/ | 13:06 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:07 | |
| delinquentme | online code repos? sourceforge, bitbucket, github | 13:07 |
| delinquentme | what else | 13:07 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:08 | |
| kanzure | delinquentme: google projects | 13:08 |
| kanzure | google code.. or whatever it's called | 13:08 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: I see your vortex cannon, and raise you this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr72CHwpdH4 | 13:08 |
| kanzure | eh | 13:11 |
| -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has quit [] | 13:11 | |
| delinquentme | ya got it | 13:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.scottbrown.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2012/3/senate-passes-brown-merkley-bipartisan-crowdfunding-bill | 13:13 |
| kanzure | backyard brains' publication: | 13:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0030837 | 13:46 |
| kanzure | "The SpikerBox: A Low Cost, Open-Source BioAmplifier for Increasing Public Participation in Neuroscience Inquiry" | 13:47 |
| kanzure | what the hell is a bioamplifier | 13:47 |
| kanzure | don't make up new words for this :( | 13:47 |
| ThomasEgi | appears to be just a regular analog frontend for reading biopotential.. | 13:56 |
| ThomasEgi | damn those business administration folks with their insane desire to invent no words to impress common folks. | 13:57 |
| kanzure | ThomasEgi: ah yeah it's not complicated at all | 13:57 |
| kanzure | they are just trying to sell kits to schools etc. | 13:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: openpcr uses strings like "d=1&t=40&t1=41&t2=42" to program itself from a computer | 14:35 |
| kanzure | apparently josh/tito decided to use adobe AIR (ARGH IDJFKJSLDJAJSKLJAOJIO) | 14:36 |
| kanzure | they use usb acting as a storage device to send commands to their arduino.. basically you write to a file with the commands (it sounds ilke a pipe but they probably messed up the implementation) | 14:36 |
| kanzure | i am not happy with "Just make it run an HTTP server" or "make it compile/parse code" | 14:37 |
| kanzure | what's a better way to do this? | 14:37 |
| delinquentme | lolol | 14:39 |
| delinquentme | AIR? | 14:39 |
| delinquentme | they used AIR | 14:39 |
| kanzure | yes :( | 14:39 |
| kanzure | 1) if you use your own custom protocol, like openpcr's command string, you are limiting the possible software that it will run | 14:39 |
| kanzure | 2) if you reprogram it every time, that's a big gaping security hole | 14:39 |
| delinquentme | should I write him and offer some help? | 14:39 |
| delinquentme | I've emailed him before w no response | 14:40 |
| delinquentme | but like | 14:40 |
| delinquentme | lol | 14:40 |
| delinquentme | air | 14:40 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: you used rails for lh001? | 14:43 |
| delinquentme | ya | 14:43 |
| delinquentme | rails packing a binary protocol | 14:43 |
| delinquentme | well ruby | 14:43 |
| -!- nmz787 [43f2b117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.177.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:47 | |
| kanzure | hi nmz787 | 14:47 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: so, i was just suggesting a minute ago | 14:47 |
| nmz787 | hi | 14:47 |
| kanzure | that you should just ssh into the lab equipment | 14:47 |
| kanzure | and drop in your new script/software | 14:47 |
| nmz787 | what equipment? | 14:48 |
| kanzure | well anything i guess | 14:48 |
| kanzure | so delinquentme built lh001 a liquid handling mahine | 14:48 |
| kanzure | *machine | 14:48 |
| kanzure | and he used rails... | 14:48 |
| kanzure | and then these openpcr nutjobs used AIR | 14:49 |
| nmz787 | metal rails? | 14:49 |
| kanzure | no rails the ruby project | 14:49 |
| nmz787 | so it was a web app? | 14:50 |
| Steel2 | re: webhosting/domain name registrars | 14:50 |
| Steel2 | I get all my stuff via lithium hosting | 14:50 |
| nmz787 | you access via google chrome | 14:50 |
| nmz787 | ? | 14:50 |
| kanzure | nmz787: right | 14:50 |
| nmz787 | cool i guess | 14:50 |
| kanzure | heh.. but i think it's not optimal | 14:50 |
| nmz787 | i hear a lot of people really like ruby | 14:50 |
| kanzure | i mean, it's better than sending stuff down telnet i guess | 14:50 |
| kanzure | or HYPERCOMMM 9000 or whatever the hell windows calls it.. | 14:51 |
| nmz787 | to me it seems like python is good enough for what I want to do | 14:51 |
| nmz787 | thats why that pyjamas thing kind of looks cool | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | depends on the complexity | 14:51 |
| nmz787 | and the processor | 14:52 |
| kanzure | nmz787: wait what are you doing? :) | 14:52 |
| delinquentme | if you've got something that can handle the SSH | 14:52 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: for sure.. why not run your lab equipment off of linux? | 14:52 |
| nmz787 | if raspberrypi sticks around, then we can just use a small C server for small lab use | 14:52 |
| delinquentme | absolutely. | 14:52 |
| kanzure | i guess openpcr's "just act as usb mass storage" is nice for compatibility | 14:52 |
| delinquentme | raspberry pi would let you ssh in | 14:53 |
| kanzure | nmz787: or beagleboard | 14:53 |
| nmz787 | if its something likely to be queried a lot, use different software | 14:53 |
| delinquentme | and then that runs the machines and connects up to the server | 14:53 |
| delinquentme | kanz what do you use for your rails auth | 14:53 |
| kanzure | devise | 14:54 |
| kanzure | nmz787: what are you thinking of using pyjs for? | 14:56 |
| nmz787 | openspectrometer needs a GUI | 14:57 |
| kanzure | oh | 14:57 |
| nmz787 | there are some nice graphing javascript libraries | 14:57 |
| kanzure | yeah.. check out three.js or raphael.js | 14:57 |
| nmz787 | so i was already thinking throwing a webkit in a python script | 14:57 |
| nmz787 | and loading the sensor data right into the webkit javascrip graph | 14:57 |
| kanzure | note that javascript is not a good option if you have millions of data points | 14:58 |
| kanzure | or millions of anything heh | 14:58 |
| nmz787 | it did nice shit like zooming, and landscape overview (i.e. small version of where you're zoomed into) | 14:58 |
| nmz787 | nah | 14:58 |
| nmz787 | sensor is few thousand pixels | 14:58 |
| kanzure | three.js if you want to be fancy https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/ | 14:59 |
| nmz787 | but the python backend will also allow processing addons to be easy to load | 14:59 |
| kanzure | raphael.js if you are practical http://raphaeljs.com/ | 14:59 |
| kanzure | you could also just do it straight up in python | 14:59 |
| nmz787 | i.e. some crazy math heavy data filters that some real imaging scientist might want to contribute | 14:59 |
| kanzure | and then you can take advantage of scipy | 14:59 |
| kanzure | actually.. scipy bindings through pyjs would be a nice thing to have in general | 15:00 |
| nmz787 | yeah that was my thought | 15:02 |
| nmz787 | scipy numpy all that shyt | 15:02 |
| nmz787 | are there octave python bindings? | 15:02 |
| nmz787 | hah | 15:02 |
| nmz787 | that might suck | 15:02 |
| nmz787 | but maybe not | 15:02 |
| -!- ParahSailin__ is now known as ParahSailin | 15:10 | |
| -!- ParahSailin [~parah@adsl-69-151-192-198.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Changing host] | 15:10 | |
| -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:10 | |
| kanzure | test test | 15:14 |
| -!- ziyadh [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-chbqlusrbqcxxkcp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 15:16 | |
| -!- nmz787 [43f2b117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.177.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 15:19 | |
| kanzure | the internet is experiening some pretty substantial ping timeouts | 15:20 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: what's that dns servie map thing you one showed me? | 15:21 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@2607:f470:8:3148:ccaf:6e64:8eef:e2dd] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 15:22 | |
| kanzure | "Mike has been located, but what happened to him will not be disclosed until his family is ready. I hope they do so soon." | 15:36 |
| kanzure | in canada. | 15:36 |
| -!- ziyadh [u4806@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gyhsochgrpnyqiyw] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:40 | |
| -!- virnovus [~virnovus@cpe-74-77-96-63.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:42 | |
| kanzure | hi virnovus | 15:43 |
| virnovus | hello | 15:43 |
| virnovus | was in reddit yesterday, and someone pointed me here | 15:43 |
| virnovus | figured I'd keep the window open for a while and see what everyone talks about | 15:44 |
| Mokbortolan_ | we like to talk about consciousness, and how we can expand it surgically. | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | having come to a consensus on its exact location in the brain. | 15:52 |
| Steel2 | oh, you were the VR developer? | 15:52 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_ is lying | 15:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I am :( | 15:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'm a terrible liar | 15:57 |
| Thorbinator_ | besides, conciousness is probably an emergent phenomena of the entire brain | 15:57 |
| kanzure | it's probably crap | 15:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I had heard of the role of the gut flora in psychology... | 15:58 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@c-68-81-252-40.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:59 | |
| virnovus | oh. yes, vr developer | 16:04 |
| virnovus | was someone talking about me? | 16:05 |
| virnovus | I'm not all that interested in cutting my brain open, at least not at this point | 16:06 |
| virnovus | ;) | 16:06 |
| virnovus | at least I used to be a VR developer | 16:08 |
| kanzure | what the hell is VR | 16:10 |
| kanzure | is it just another way of saying "we're using our GPUs" | 16:10 |
| virnovus | they confiscated my "meth lab" and all my drug precursors, and now I can't do my job anymore, so that's about it | 16:11 |
| virnovus | err, I used to work in a lab developing virtual reality-type simulators | 16:11 |
| kanzure | who confiscated your shit? | 16:11 |
| virnovus | US marshalls | 16:11 |
| kanzure | maybe i can help you get it back | 16:11 |
| kanzure | ok which state? | 16:11 |
| virnovus | NY | 16:12 |
| kanzure | are you near manhattan | 16:12 |
| virnovus | buffalo | 16:12 |
| kanzure | did they have a warrant? | 16:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | virnovus: you probably had something dangerous and suspicious, ilke Acetic Acid 5% w/v | 16:13 |
| virnovus | this was two years ago | 16:13 |
| kanzure | virnovus: that's no excuse | 16:13 |
| kanzure | virnovus: i don't know if it will help but we have outreach with the FBI | 16:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the response to meth labs is going to seriously curtail the USA's supply of chemists in the coming decades | 16:13 |
| kanzure | in particular the FBI's weapons of mass destruction directorate | 16:14 |
| kanzure | they are pretty friendly and helpful from time to time | 16:14 |
| virnovus | oh I totally agree | 16:14 |
| kanzure | virnovus: i suggest emailing agent nathan head <nathaniel.head@ic.fbi.gov> | 16:14 |
| kanzure | virnovus: and agent you <edward.you@ic.fbi.gov> | 16:15 |
| virnovus | i'm pretty sure it's all been destroyed. this was two years ago | 16:15 |
| kanzure | you should be compensated for any materials destroyed | 16:15 |
| kanzure | what were you working on btw? | 16:15 |
| virnovus | http://www.simulatedsurgicals.com | 16:16 |
| kanzure | is it simulating a machine you built? | 16:17 |
| virnovus | I was pretty stupid at the time. all my friends were Indian citizens, and I didn't have any government contacts | 16:17 |
| kanzure | oh the machine is a simulator | 16:18 |
| kanzure | uh | 16:18 |
| kanzure | where did you get 3d models from? | 16:18 |
| virnovus | I designed the initial prototype software, lately other people have been doing more of the work | 16:19 |
| virnovus | i have some experience with video game design, pretty good with 3ds max | 16:19 |
| kanzure | i am trying to find usable 3d models of neuroanatomical regions of the human brain | 16:19 |
| kanzure | but unfortunately nobody has a usable brain atlas | 16:19 |
| kanzure | just fuzzy fmri data and lots of text saying "The x bone connects to the y bone" screw that | 16:19 |
| virnovus | oh, the models I made were mostly from urology | 16:20 |
| virnovus | no brain data | 16:21 |
| kanzure | bleh | 16:21 |
| virnovus | a friend of mine has models of the major arteries in the brain, but that's more from stroke research | 16:21 |
| kanzure | i'll take anything :P | 16:22 |
| virnovus | i can ask him tomorrow | 16:23 |
| -!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-80-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:49 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:07 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 17:09 | |
| virnovus | as far as emailing people in the FBI, I definitely don't want to get in any more trouble than I'm already in; I've already had to plead guilty to a felony | 17:09 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:10 | |
| kanzure | uh | 17:10 |
| virnovus | not sure what I'd say. give me back my stuff? | 17:10 |
| kanzure | yes :( | 17:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh wow | 17:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you plead guilty to a felony | 17:11 |
| virnovus | my lawyer kind of forced me to | 17:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | our justice system is totaly screwed up, where you get offered "deals" for not wasting the court's time | 17:12 |
| virnovus | yeah. any suggestions on what to do before sentencing? | 17:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | which basically suggests that the justice meted out has more to do with whether or not you inconvenience the judge | 17:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | naah, I would have said "get a different lawyer" if you had mentioned it before you accepted the plea deal | 17:13 |
| virnovus | i wanted to but I was broke and my parents paid for my lawyer | 17:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but after this you will basically find it impossible to get a job at a large company | 17:13 |
| virnovus | i'm aware of that. my plan is to wait it out, then move to India | 17:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I know a few felons trying to re-integrate into society, and they have it damn hard | 17:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | if they'll take you | 17:14 |
| virnovus | either that, or work for start ups | 17:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | they might, I dunno | 17:14 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:14 | |
| -!- SDr [SDr@unaffiliated/sdr] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:15 | |
| katsmeow-afk | Associated Press | 17:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. intelligence community will now be able to store information about Americans with no ties to terrorism for up to five years under new Obama administration guidelines. | 17:16 |
| virnovus | i had to plead guilty to unlawfully importing a list I controlled drug precursor :( | 17:16 |
| -!- Mokbortolan_ is now known as Mok_Away | 17:18 | |
| katsmeow-afk | point out you didn't know about that law? | 17:18 |
| virnovus | i forgot what i said. i was stupid and said a lot of stuff, much of it true, much of it not true | 17:21 |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 17:21 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:21 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 17:22 | |
| Thorbinator_ | this channel has all sorts of interesting characters, apparently | 17:22 |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:22 | |
| Mariu | :) | 17:22 |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:07 | |
| -!- thesnark [~thesnark@unaffiliated/thesnark] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:16 | |
| -!- nyteryder [~nyteryder@c-24-6-237-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:22 | |
| -!- nyteryder [~nyteryder@c-24-6-237-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 18:49 | |
| -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:50 | |
| nathaniel | Thorbinator_ yeah that was a horribly interesting conversation | 18:53 |
| nathaniel | thanks for highlighting me, kanzure :3 | 18:53 |
| kanzure | nathaniel: hm? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | where? | 18:55 |
| nathaniel | nathan head's email | 18:55 |
| kanzure | oh. | 18:56 |
| fenn | http seems perfectly fine for passing parameters to a lab device | 19:09 |
| strangewarp | I used to be in a bunch of shitty channels full of angry people, and I would get pinged whenever someone raged for/against Christianity | 19:17 |
| strangewarp | annoying++ | 19:17 |
| fenn | maybe you should change your name | 19:18 |
| strangewarp | No way | 19:18 |
| strangewarp | I am named after my totally rad ancestor from the alpha session | 19:18 |
| strangewarp | ;) | 19:18 |
| fenn | i dont even know what that means | 19:19 |
| strangewarp | bad webcomic reference | 19:20 |
| fenn | virnovus: how is tensile strength and rigidity information for surgical models stored, or even acquired? | 19:21 |
| fenn | haptic modeling of a rubber sphere is one thing, but a body? | 19:22 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:23 | |
| kanzure | hi fenn | 19:29 |
| kanzure | i am surprised you're pro-http-server-in-lab-equipment | 19:30 |
| kanzure | seems like a high overhead solution | 19:30 |
| kanzure | although i'm pro-linux-in-my-equipment | 19:30 |
| fenn | http is way less overhead than ssh | 19:32 |
| fenn | you dont even need an OS for http | 19:32 |
| fenn | you've heard of internet 0 right? | 19:32 |
| kanzure | i thought so but now that i look i see it's the gershenfeld clan | 19:33 |
| fenn | yep | 19:34 |
| fenn | basically they wire an AVR up to ethernet | 19:34 |
| fenn | most lab equipment doesn't need more than that | 19:35 |
| fenn | some digital and analog i/o and do all the fancy interface stuff with your laptop or tablet or whatever | 19:35 |
| kanzure | what's the reason to not throw in a full linux stack into your hplc? | 19:36 |
| virnovus | oh, back now | 19:36 |
| fenn | it's just more "stuff" | 19:36 |
| virnovus | fenn: surgical models? we mostly just wing it | 19:36 |
| kanzure | wtf | 19:37 |
| virnovus | or, I do | 19:37 |
| kanzure | virnovus: that does not sound helpful? | 19:37 |
| fenn | i guess you're not really training on the surgery itself but rather the general use of the robot | 19:37 |
| virnovus | they kept telling me I should use actual published data, but I'd just play around with what seemed right, or what was easy to run through the soft-body physics engine | 19:37 |
| fenn | did you have access to the actual robot? | 19:38 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure there's no published data that you can just.. use.. for that. | 19:38 |
| virnovus | fenn: yes, I did get to use it once, for an hour or so | 19:39 |
| kanzure | ... that's it? | 19:39 |
| fenn | kanzure: this kind of thing is stupidly inflated expensive, and time on it is in high demand, so.. | 19:39 |
| virnovus | right, the published data is all pretty hard to apply to our models | 19:39 |
| kanzure | fenn: yes but .. you should be able to afford for your programmers/developers to use it | 19:39 |
| kanzure | "Well, we built the machine, but now we need to make educational material. So obviously, we're not going to use the machine for this process." | 19:40 |
| kanzure | fuck that | 19:40 |
| virnovus | plus, the physics engines are all off the shelf, and soft-body physics engines that allow simulated cutting are few and far between | 19:40 |
| virnovus | and there's no way I'd ever write one myself. WAY too much work | 19:40 |
| virnovus | plus, at the time I was working on programming, it was part of a grant from RPCI | 19:41 |
| virnovus | err, roswell park cancer institute | 19:42 |
| virnovus | now, the intuitive people are developing their own simulator, so the company I was wanting to work for is looking like they might go belly-up | 19:45 |
| fenn | kanzure: can you explain the potential benefits of having a full OS on a piece of equipment? | 19:45 |
| virnovus | i don't suppose anyone here is rapman543? | 19:46 |
| fenn | like the 3d printer? | 19:47 |
| -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.160.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:48 | |
| Mok_Away | http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-03-wrests-partial-memory.html | 19:56 |
| Mok_Away | light-activated memories | 19:56 |
| virnovus | It's interesting that there are photoreceptors in the brain | 19:58 |
| virnovus | probably has to do with the fact that the retina is neural tissue | 19:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: you can do all the standard software things you expect a computer to be able to do. | 19:59 |
| kanzure | done? | 19:59 |
| virnovus | so retinal genes get expresed elsewhere as well | 19:59 |
| kanzure | where? | 19:59 |
| -!- virnovus is now known as vir | 20:00 | |
| -!- vir is now known as virnovus | 20:01 | |
| kanzure | "Bloomfield Hills resident Mark Sims, 48, has known Treder since 2004. They attended many of the same conferences. Sims said he's been helping Treder's family in the search and doesn't know what happened to his friend." | 20:01 |
| kanzure | isn't that the guy i stole all the nanoengineer code from | 20:01 |
| kanzure | s/stole/got | 20:02 |
| n_bentha | acquired* | 20:02 |
| kanzure | ah yes the white man's word | 20:02 |
| virnovus | anyone have anything interesting to say about racetams? | 20:07 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:08 | |
| klafka | hey | 20:08 |
| virnovus | I ordered piracetam once, but I ran out pretty quickly and it didn't seem to do much | 20:08 |
| virnovus | hi | 20:08 |
| virnovus | just was curious if maybe I should give them another go | 20:09 |
| fenn | the effects are more noticeable when combined with other things | 20:11 |
| fenn | you have to take several grams of piracetam | 20:11 |
| fenn | i'm not sure it makes economic sense | 20:11 |
| virnovus | yeah, it didn't seem worth the cost at the time. even less so now | 20:13 |
| fenn | i'm playing around with noopept | 20:13 |
| fenn | the dosage is so low it costs practically nothing | 20:14 |
| fenn | too many toys, too little time | 20:15 |
| virnovus | interesting | 20:15 |
| virnovus | my problem is, i used to have a prescription for adderall, but once I got arrested for drug charges, doctors won't write me prescriptions for it anymore | 20:15 |
| virnovus | just assume it's drug-seeking behavior, i guess | 20:16 |
| fenn | how do doctors even know about that? | 20:16 |
| klafka | it got noted on his record? | 20:17 |
| klafka | or something | 20:17 |
| kanzure | "His Record" | 20:17 |
| virnovus | i had one doctor write me a prescription, then got a notice a couple weeks later that i couldn't get adderall prescriptions from her anymore. no explanation | 20:17 |
| kanzure | EMR records are usually private, except if the healthcare company has something | 20:17 |
| virnovus | think i'm blacklisted by the DEA, but i can't prove it | 20:17 |
| Steel2 | possibly try noopept? | 20:17 |
| n_bentha | :O | 20:17 |
| fenn | well, noopept is nothing like adderall | 20:18 |
| Thorbinator_ | considering the charges, I wouldn't be suprised if there is a blacklist you landed on | 20:18 |
| kanzure | fenn: i want an addressable microdroplet array :3 | 20:18 |
| n_bentha | I had a script for adderall to help me stay awake. I started selling it after starting to smoke mj to get more sleep. | 20:18 |
| kanzure | to stay awake? docs wrote you a script just for that? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | i went through weeks of psychological testing | 20:19 |
| kanzure | it was like autism bootcamp | 20:19 |
| Steel2 | my buddy got it basically for having the most borderline of adhd effects | 20:19 |
| n_bentha | Yup. Doc put down add for the diagnosis to make it kosher though. | 20:19 |
| n_bentha | I didn't do any testing, luckily. | 20:19 |
| virnovus | i have genuine ADD effects. my grandma was killed crossing the street because she wasn't paying attention to traffic. no lie | 20:20 |
| strangewarp | Nootropics cured my clinical depression and part of my laziness. Woop woop | 20:20 |
| fenn | i wish these diybio kids would hurry up and put together some metabolic pathways | 20:21 |
| fenn | strangewarp: care to elaborate? | 20:21 |
| Steel2 | my mom thinks the choline is what helped her | 20:21 |
| * n_bentha wants some modafinil | 20:22 | |
| fenn | choline certainly won't hurt | 20:22 |
| strangewarp | fenn: I feel like a productive adult who doesn't hate himself for the first time ever, basically | 20:22 |
| n_bentha | fenn: what kinda pathways? | 20:22 |
| fenn | i think alzheimer's is related to choline deficiency | 20:22 |
| virnovus | i used to have modafinil. fucking US marshalls confiscated that too | 20:22 |
| n_bentha | no wai! | 20:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | i can't do $80/month for monafinal, the adrafinal was doing well | 20:22 |
| n_bentha | virnovus: why they do that? | 20:22 |
| Mok_Away | adderall is sure handy for focusing | 20:22 |
| Mok_Away | boy howdy | 20:22 |
| virnovus | they confiscated anything that looked like it even might be illegal | 20:22 |
| fenn | n_bentha: drug production, to make it impossible to regulate, end the war on drugs with improved technology | 20:22 |
| n_bentha | oh that's cool. when they transform the genes for the thc pathway into things, i'll be one happy camper | 20:23 |
| fenn | yes, ideally herbicide resistant invasive weeds | 20:24 |
| virnovus | i've always been interested in trans-4-methylaminorex. never was able to synthesize it though. and all the precursors are too similar to meth | 20:24 |
| virnovus | ooh, yes. dandelions with superdominant THC genes. can't wait! | 20:25 |
| Mok_Away | Just say NO to GMO! | 20:25 |
| Mok_Away | :p | 20:25 |
| n_bentha | haha dandelion salads! | 20:26 |
| n_bentha | wooo | 20:26 |
| n_bentha | Speaking of drugs... | 20:27 |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 20:27 | |
| n_bentha | What kind of drugs do astronauts get? I hear a rumor that they get good stuff to help w/ the long flights and stuff. | 20:27 |
| strangewarp | maybe this is the great filter | 20:28 |
| virnovus | recently I did get some ethylphenidate, although i'm a little disappointed in it. i was hoping it'd be more like adderall | 20:28 |
| strangewarp | >_> | 20:28 |
| virnovus | n_bentha: i think it's modafinil. could be wrong | 20:28 |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:29 | |
| virnovus | i know air force pilots get modafinil | 20:30 |
| n_bentha | my insurance does 90day perscriptions @ a 20dollar co-pay | 20:31 |
| n_bentha | i need to start the drug-seeking behavior | 20:31 |
| virnovus | there was a law and order svu episode on where a girl acts like she went psycho from staying up too long using provigil (modafinil). I was watching it with my grandparents and I wanted to scream no, provigil WON'T DO THAT!!! but it was my grandparents so i kept my mouth shut | 20:32 |
| n_bentha | Wow, that sounds bad, but I hope you guys know what I mean. | 20:32 |
| virnovus | n_bentha: can always make your own drugs. but i wouldn't recommend that. you could wind up a convicted felon for life | 20:33 |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 20:33 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:35 | |
| n_bentha | I only worry about the production of other hormones being affected by provigil--like how thyroid hormones, cortisol, etc are needed in the circadian rhythm. Would provigil cause adrenal burn-out like adderall is known too? | 20:35 |
| n_bentha | to* | 20:35 |
| n_bentha | d3nd3! I missed you, buddy. Did you sprout your wings and learn to fly yet? | 20:35 |
| virnovus | n_bentha: i don't think so. provigil is much more subtle than adderall | 20:36 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-81-88.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:36 | |
| -!- d3nd31 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:36 | |
| n_bentha | Well if it keeps you awake while allowing your cortisol to drop so your other hormones (thyroid, growth hormone, etc) can be secreted, then I'm all for it. | 20:38 |
| -!- d3nd31 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 20:39 | |
| virnovus | no clue there. i just know it was a mild, benevolent stimulant | 20:39 |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 20:40 | |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:40 | |
| n_bentha | How would you compare it to caffeine? | 20:40 |
| virnovus | less... dirty? I don't know. I guess I would say it's like a nicer version of caffeine? | 20:41 |
| virnovus | i guess i'd say it's somewhere between adderall and caffeine, but lasts longer | 20:43 |
| n_bentha | And the diuretic effects? | 20:43 |
| n_bentha | (sorry for so many questions--that's the last one) | 20:44 |
| virnovus | i don't remember any, but then, it was 2 years ago that they took all of mine. it was definitely more subtle than amphetamines though | 20:45 |
| virnovus | which could be a good thing if you don't like amphetamines | 20:45 |
| virnovus | the thing is, i have issues with depression too, and modafinil didn't touch that, which is why i wasn't that thrilled with it | 20:46 |
| n_bentha | Oh, I loathe amphetamines. They make me have the runs, dehydrate, and want to throw-up. | 20:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: BASED ON MY CALCULATIONS, storing 50,000 droplets should take 4 cm^2? if you assume 10 micron walls and 5 micron diameter drops? | 20:46 |
| n_bentha | That's a bummer. No drug ever cured my depression :( | 20:47 |
| kanzure | so storing 50,000 5 micron droplets should take at least 25 centimeters | 20:47 |
| n_bentha | But I'm not depressed anymore! | 20:47 |
| kanzure | if it was a single capillary storage geometry thing | 20:48 |
| Steel2 | why are you storing drops? | 20:48 |
| kanzure | Steel2: chemicals, dna, cells | 20:48 |
| Mok_Away | n_bentha: it makes your pee smell awful | 20:48 |
| Steel2 | hmm | 20:48 |
| Mok_Away | there's that "thio" in there | 20:48 |
| kanzure | Steel2: first, with 4096 drops you can store all possible sequences of DNA up to 6 letters in length | 20:48 |
| Steel2 | like in an array? | 20:49 |
| kanzure | and then you can combine these 6mers to make whatever you are sequencing | 20:49 |
| kanzure | no | 20:49 |
| kanzure | an array needs more surface area | 20:49 |
| Steel2 | cube? | 20:49 |
| kanzure | no | 20:49 |
| kanzure | i said capillary :( | 20:49 |
| Steel2 | oh | 20:49 |
| Steel2 | hm | 20:49 |
| Steel2 | I can think of ways to make solid capillaries with those sizes but not permeable ones | 20:50 |
| kanzure | so with 50000 drops you can store maybe 50000 different versions of cells or something | 20:50 |
| kanzure | i mean a pdms capillary | 20:50 |
| virnovus | n_bentha: i've tried methoxetamine, that took care of it for like 10 days | 20:50 |
| kanzure | one long-ass channel | 20:50 |
| virnovus | and yeah, it makes your pee smell pretty bad | 20:50 |
| kanzure | virnovus: i will buy whatever i can to make my pee smell like t-rex pee | 20:50 |
| virnovus | the *afinil drugs | 20:50 |
| Steel2 | yeah, no idea. | 20:50 |
| n_bentha | oh this is what you were talking about last time, kanzure! Sweet :) | 20:51 |
| kanzure | t-rex urine? | 20:51 |
| virnovus | pretty sure they didn't pee. they excreted there ammonia in uric acid, like birds :) | 20:51 |
| Steel2 | hmm | 20:51 |
| kanzure | virnovus: we can fix that | 20:52 |
| Steel2 | electroluminescent dye | 20:52 |
| n_bentha | lol. i've been pretty happy w/ taking L-theanine and eleuthero, virnovus | 20:52 |
| kanzure | Steel2: this system is a bit more complex than what i have in mind | 20:52 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Simple,%20robust%20storage%20of%20drops%20and%20fluids%20in%20a%20microfluidic%20device.pdf | 20:52 |
| kanzure | they also show it in an array.. again, not what i was aiming for | 20:52 |
| n_bentha | i want one of those new vibrating tatoos, but i want to to light up when it does. | 20:52 |
| kanzure | i just want a microfluidic storage system that looks like this: .......... | 20:53 |
| kanzure | that's all i'm asking for :p | 20:53 |
| -!- nyteryder [~nyteryder@c-24-6-237-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:54 | |
| Steel2 | how would it dispense | 20:54 |
| Steel2 | out one end? | 20:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | i keep thinking of the mcp found in some oscopes, but i dunno how you'd put the liquid in/out , or even index the channels | 20:54 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:54 |
| kanzure | first in first out | 20:54 |
| Steel2 | vov | 20:54 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:55 | |
| Steel2 | I need to find someone good with repraps in dc | 20:55 |
| Steel2 | (easy) | 20:55 |
| kanzure | oh this looks handy "Design of pressure-driven microfluidic networks using electric circuit analogy" http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2012/LC/c2lc20799k | 20:55 |
| kanzure | yeh same thing as bondgraphs.. no surprise | 20:56 |
| n_bentha | you'll need to keep it all cold, right? | 20:56 |
| kanzure | no? | 20:56 |
| n_bentha | at least the stocks? | 20:56 |
| kanzure | dna is ok at room temp | 20:57 |
| n_bentha | Ya I guess... | 20:57 |
| yashgaroth | if you keep it sterile | 20:59 |
| kanzure | "A drop treadmill holds up to three droplets and can function as a first-in-first-out buffer memory." only three? | 21:00 |
| kanzure | pg 3 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Thermocapillary%20manipulation%20of%20droplets%20using%20holographic%20beam%20shaping:%20Microfluidic%20pin%20ball.pdf | 21:00 |
| kanzure | (though this is a different/unusual actuation technique) | 21:00 |
| kanzure | well... here's someone is doing fraction emulsions into single-file channels, but it looks random | 21:01 |
| kanzure | http://weitzlab.seas.harvard.edu/publications/mary-2011-biomicrofluid.pdf | 21:01 |
| virnovus | i realize i'm kind of jumping in in the middle, but I've seen some work done with piezo pumps that looked promising | 21:02 |
| kanzure | yeh? | 21:03 |
| virnovus | it was a presentation a few years ago at a conference. forgot who did it | 21:03 |
| kanzure | pg2 looks like a buffer of drops to me.. http://www.rsc.org/binaries/LOC/2008/PDFs/Papers/611_0518.pdf | 21:03 |
| n_bentha | If it helps, there are some robots for injecting xenopus oocytes with very small ammounts of rna. I imagine you could adapt the design to work in a similar fashion? | 21:05 |
| kanzure | i am trying to convince fenn to be intrigued by this | 21:05 |
| virnovus | what would it be used for? | 21:06 |
| n_bentha | However, they did use a needle filled w/ oil that sucked up the rna from a 1.5ml centri tube. Then had a wash and a waste tube as well. | 21:06 |
| n_bentha | Well you could use it to suck up DNA from the tubes, and add very small ammounts to the droplets. | 21:07 |
| kanzure | virnovus: mirofluidic dna synthesizer | 21:07 |
| kanzure | *micro | 21:07 |
| yashgaroth | xenopus oocytes are huge though | 21:08 |
| n_bentha | Yeah, but it was like less than 1ug that we injected each one w/ | 21:08 |
| kanzure | pfft manual syringe method to create microdroplet emulsions http://weitzlab.seas.harvard.edu/publications/Bio_Abate_2011.pdf | 21:10 |
| virnovus | ooh, yeah, i was thinking something like drug injection | 21:11 |
| virnovus | dunno why | 21:11 |
| n_bentha | "droplet size measures approximately 60 µm in diameter " | 21:12 |
| virnovus | heh | 21:12 |
| n_bentha | http://www.biocompare.com/Articles/ApplicationNote/1651/Microinjection-Of-RNA-Into-Xenopus-Oocytes.html | 21:13 |
| yashgaroth | I feel like this needs lasers somehow | 21:16 |
| n_bentha | W/ the robot for it, you have to do the calibration that I mentioned last ngiht. | 21:16 |
| n_bentha | But then you can let it run until you need to change out samples. | 21:17 |
| n_bentha | It's just hard to be accurate to the micro-meter from the get-go. | 21:18 |
| n_bentha | If you had the samples of the 4096 dna 6-mers on a rotating device, you could keep the injector stationary. | 21:19 |
| kanzure | n_bentha: the 4096 droplets would be in the system already | 21:20 |
| n_bentha | :O | 21:20 |
| n_bentha | What if you need to use one of the 6-mers more than 1x? | 21:20 |
| kanzure | n_bentha: you will use a drop, and then put it back in the library | 21:21 |
| kanzure | contamination is an interesting question, but i think i have a way to work around that | 21:21 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth was also kind enough to make up a cool technique to avoid depleting your library | 21:21 |
| n_bentha | Ok. The contamination thing is what I was not able to deal w/. | 21:21 |
| yashgaroth | that method needs time to replenish, so hopefully you'd only be taking ~10% at a time | 21:22 |
| kanzure | n_bentha: this is what yashgaroth drew up http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/nicking-library-method.jpg | 21:22 |
| yashgaroth | but yeah what about contamination, micron-sized needles ain't cheap | 21:22 |
| Steel2 | Hmm | 21:23 |
| Steel2 | interior diameter of what needed | 21:23 |
| Steel2 | our ~5um interior diameter needles are... | 21:23 |
| Steel2 | god, I don't actually know | 21:23 |
| Steel2 | I think they're pretty cheap actually | 21:23 |
| yashgaroth | interior doesn't matter, long as exterior is <5um | 21:23 |
| Steel2 | oh, exterior | 21:24 |
| Steel2 | >_> | 21:24 |
| yashgaroth | or whatever the drop dimensions are | 21:24 |
| Steel2 | our interior is 5um | 21:24 |
| Steel2 | exterior is prob significantly wider at the widest point | 21:24 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: the droplets can be created later | 21:24 |
| kanzure | dump shit into the channel -> form a drop -> everything else goes to waste | 21:24 |
| nyteryder | (no idea what you guys are really talking about but this all sounds really cool) | 21:24 |
| kanzure | nyteryder: http://labs.pharmacology.ucla.edu/tsenglab/image/labtour/ResearchImage/Microfluidics/HsianRongTsengLab_microfluidic01_Dec28_04.jpg | 21:25 |
| n_bentha | When you pull needles for use in microinjectors, there are multiple techniques to making them sharp and pointy | 21:25 |
| n_bentha | You can break them, or you can do some polishing | 21:25 |
| n_bentha | Should work out alright. | 21:25 |
| yashgaroth | we need blunt ends | 21:26 |
| yashgaroth | don't want to stab a hole in your substrate | 21:26 |
| * n_bentha needs a blunt and to let the grown-ups do the talking. | 21:26 | |
| n_bentha | btw, I like the bead-idea for the six-mer generation | 21:26 |
| yashgaroth | sadly it may need to be 8mers, but the principle still applies | 21:27 |
| n_bentha | would you then need 65 536 8-mers? | 21:28 |
| yashgaroth | yes, minus the palindromic ones, or the few recognized by the nicking enzyme | 21:28 |
| nyteryder | Thanks kanzure | 21:29 |
| yashgaroth | that's the microfluidics department though, not my problem :V | 21:29 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-67-171-66-113.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 21:35 | |
| -!- Guest81313 is now known as poptire | 21:35 | |
| virnovus | would anyone here be interested in seeing video of a laproscopic bladder/prostate surgery? | 21:36 |
| yashgaroth | is it in HD | 21:37 |
| virnovus | s-video | 21:37 |
| yashgaroth | I prefer my bladders hi-def, but okay | 21:37 |
| virnovus | it was too hard to record the HD signals | 21:37 |
| virnovus | heh | 21:37 |
| -!- d3nd3 [~dende@cpc10-croy17-2-0-cust245.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 21:38 | |
| virnovus | well, i just wondered because I found the files on my hard drive, but they're all in MPG format so they're huge | 21:38 |
| virnovus | would have to re-encode them i think | 21:38 |
| virnovus | see if i have the avi | 21:38 |
| n_bentha | oh i did a gall bladder removal last year (laproscopic) | 21:45 |
| n_bentha | where's the video? | 21:45 |
| kanzure | nyteryder: sure no problem? | 21:45 |
| -!- jenzebubble [~jen@173-19-241-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:51 | |
| -!- jennicide [jen@173-19-241-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 21:54 | |
| kanzure | http://w3fools.com/ | 22:40 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] | 23:07 | |
| -!- nyteryder [~nyteryder@c-24-6-237-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] | 23:33 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:35 | |
| --- Log closed Fri Mar 23 00:00:03 2012 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
