| --- Log opened Sun Apr 01 00:00:16 2012 | ||
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| nmz787 | i think the exploits would still be possible in that situation | 00:49 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787 | if i run ssh with X forwarding, I can display chrome and still be vulnerable to having things be swapped to disk (like they talk about) | 00:50 |
| nmz787 | its kind of like the princeton cold boot attack in that sense | 00:50 |
| nmz787 | well, except its a swap file | 00:50 |
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| jrayhawk | encrypted swap; *then* it becomes a princeton cold-boot attack | 01:25 |
| katsmeow-afk | nmz787 , yeas, Bittman, correct | 01:28 |
| nmz787 | cool | 01:29 |
| nmz787 | ok goodnight all | 01:29 |
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| katsmeow-afk | i don't mean port forwarding, i mean sending the least amount of info to draw the page, not even adhereing to http/js/ect protocols | 01:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, memory ghost and page swaps will still leave data on the display computer, but it won't be sent the exploits to find it | 01:31 |
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| jrayhawk | X forwarding pretty much is the least amount of info to draw the page. | 01:43 |
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| jrayhawk | I'm sorta hoping someday we'll be able to forward nested X servers around and not have to worry about all this browser crap anymore. | 01:46 |
| jrayhawk | actually i guess they don't really need to be nested now with wayland | 01:48 |
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| skorket | is kanzure still around? | 03:40 |
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| ThomasEgi | skorket, he was yesturday | 03:51 |
| skorket | yeah, kinda late now | 03:53 |
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| kanzure | skorket: sure | 05:56 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: that looks fine as an instance variable | 05:57 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i see no problem with asking about oligopilot.. ask away | 05:58 |
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| katsmeow-afk | http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/th/more/988/ has a link to http://humanityplus.org/learn/philosophy/faq which is 404 | 06:34 |
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| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: like i said.. they don't know how to make websites | 07:27 |
| kanzure | hplusmagazine has been down for months | 07:27 |
| chris_99 | it's not available in physical form is it, been ages since i've looked at that | 07:29 |
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| chris_99 | http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679583/tooth-tattoos-will-tell-when-youre-ill | 07:42 |
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| kanzure | chris_99: they stopped that after one or two issues. | 08:24 |
| chris_99 | aha | 08:25 |
| kanzure | chris_99: when i was working on their servers i found this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHlQnb1k_s | 08:26 |
| chris_99 | heh | 08:28 |
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| Replop | Various philosophies says to not care about material possessions. I wonder what they will say when most possessions will become immaterial, software. | 11:04 |
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| ThomasEgi | Replop, because posession is a dead-weight to a persons mind, hindering you from advancing . | 11:28 |
| ThomasEgi | same is true for immaterial stuff you pile up | 11:28 |
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| Steel2 | maybe | 11:44 |
| Steel2 | that's opinion, not fact :P | 11:44 |
| ThomasEgi | well we are talking bout philosophies right? | 11:47 |
| Steel2 | some philosophies don't have issues with material possessions | 11:49 |
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| skorket | kanzure, can you describe the process of creating the microfluidic chips? | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | skorket: there are many ways | 12:01 |
| skorket | the 'diy' way | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | skorket: the main one we are considering for prototyping is to cut the channels out of a thin silicone layer that's been placed on acrylic | 12:02 |
| skorket | why are you placing them on acrylic? | 12:03 |
| skorket | and what are you using to cut? | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | the idea is that the silicone burns all the way through, into the acrylic a bit... so that the silicone layer has quite straight walls | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | i.e. no trough or rounded bottoms | 12:03 |
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| nmz787 | we'll either use a CO2 laser, or an IR laser thats near the absorbance peak for the silicone | 12:04 |
| skorket | I see. And this makes one layer? The flow layer | 12:04 |
| skorket | ? | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | it makes one layer, yes | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | then you take another piece of think silicone, that hasn't been cut, and bond that to the top of the just cut layer | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | then peel them off from the acrylic together | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | if you peeled off the cut layer with no top layer, its likely to break/rip | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | so with this method we can probably get 2 or 3 layer devices | 12:06 |
| skorket | but you've burned through in some areas all the way to the acrylic...so it's like taking up a stencil | 12:06 |
| skorket | you want to have backing to take off the acrylic layer... | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | yes | 12:06 |
| skorket | ah, I see | 12:06 |
| ParahSailin | if you burn silicone you get glass | 12:07 |
| skorket | so now you have a cut layer with a silicone backing | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | and you repeat the whole process, then bond the two double-layers to each other | 12:07 |
| skorket | do it again and you have another one. put them on top of each other and you have a 2 layer microfluidic chip | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | and you have uncut-cut-cut-uncut | 12:07 |
| skorket | interesting | 12:07 |
| ParahSailin | stick to acrylic films | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | i have a feeling you might be able to peel off a layer that has minimal cuts on it | 12:08 |
| ParahSailin | pdms is really shitty for microfluidics | 12:08 |
| ParahSailin | its used in papers where they only have to get results out of a device once to publish | 12:08 |
| skorket | how thick are the silicone films in this? | 12:08 |
| nmz787 | or that you dont care about the channels being distorted (the valves work on air pressure but i dont think the overall channel shape really matters) | 12:08 |
| nmz787 | as thick as you want, but we'll probably use 25 - 50 microns | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | parahsailin: yeah but it should be 'good enough' for prototyping.... and thats all we want it for really | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | it works well for water based chemistry | 12:10 |
| ParahSailin | the only way to really pattern it is the "soft lithography" embossing with a mold method | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | i have papers showing successful use of a laser cut-through and transfer method like i just described | 12:11 |
| ParahSailin | and you would do this with glass | 12:11 |
| ParahSailin | glass and silicone bond | 12:11 |
| ParahSailin | they laser ablate pdms? | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | yea | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | spin-coat PDMS onto acrylic | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | cut through into the acrylic, bond uncut pdms layer on top, peel off | 12:12 |
| ParahSailin | why not just stamp? | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | not as fast | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | i am laser cutting something right now | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | oh wait, it just finished | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | i just hit go again, it should be done with this pass in about 40 seconds | 12:12 |
| ParahSailin | you have to cure the pdms anyway, stamping occurs at the same time | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | right but you need to make the mold | 12:13 |
| ParahSailin | ah ok | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | in this case we can just have lots of pdms blanks already cured | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | and throw them in the cutter | 12:13 |
| ParahSailin | why do you want to use pdms then? | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | with ozone bonding i think one of these can go from CAD to reality in <30 mins | 12:14 |
| skorket | for the control layer, the channels that put pressure on the flow layer underneath or just bigger? Meaning it's just the size of the channel and not any special placement of the pump or anything? | 12:14 |
| ParahSailin | you can spincoat acrylic just as easily | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | PDMS is flexible, acrylic isn't... you need some flex to stop flow in valving | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | skorket: yeah basically, the control channels have to line up, or at least cross over the channel you wish to control | 12:15 |
| skorket | I understand (I think), but it's just a matter of making the channel wider in the control layer in order for it to act like a switch to the flow layer? | 12:16 |
| ParahSailin | what device do you have in mind? | 12:16 |
| ParahSailin | whats the goal | 12:16 |
| skorket | me? | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | kanzure and I want to build a genome compiler | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | but lots of small goals between here and there | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | so the laser is just to help us iterate quickly | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | then when we settle on a design, have it fabbed in whatever better processes are out there for production | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | some chemistries don't like PDMS, but still work OK and get progressively worse from the time the chip is fresh | 12:18 |
| ParahSailin | hm, i guess you can laser ablate pdms | 12:18 |
| ParahSailin | how big of a laser do you need | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | we're gonna spin our own | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | but i figure 15cm * 15 cm cutting field | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | the reason we'll make our own is that commercial ones don't have the physical resolution... i.e. high enough DPI | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | thats merely because they are designed to cut balsa wood and acrylic for hobbyists in the macro workd | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | worl | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | d | 12:20 |
| skorket | yeah, you're working at 1/20th of a millimeter or so? These things are tiny | 12:20 |
| ParahSailin | id suggest nanopore membranes rather than mechanical valves | 12:20 |
| nmz787 | we'll might implement those as well, but for filtering | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | how would you use them for valving? | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | there's a company here in town that i've talked to that makes controlled nanoporous membranes.... | 12:21 |
| ParahSailin | diffusion through them is very slow, only way to get movement through them is electro-osmotic force | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | simpore | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | with electro-osmosis, won't you get electrolysis too | 12:22 |
| ParahSailin | is laser ablating lots of things that much easier than ablating a die once for stamping? | 12:23 |
| nmz787 | yeah if you're changing the design a lot | 12:26 |
| nmz787 | with stamping you also can't get through-holes | 12:26 |
| ParahSailin | do you have a pdf handy of ablating pdms? | 12:26 |
| ParahSailin | im not at my institutional network atm | 12:26 |
| nmz787 | how do i send it? | 12:27 |
| ParahSailin | ropoctl@gmail.com | 12:27 |
| nmz787 | put it on scribd? | 12:27 |
| ParahSailin | that works | 12:28 |
| nmz787 | http://www.scribd.com/doc/87577165/jmm9-3-037002 | 12:29 |
| nmz787 | you can see on pg 3 that the channel walls aren't perfect | 12:29 |
| nmz787 | but we think, that they'll likely be fine for rapid prototyping... and when we hit the limit of the tech, hopefully we'll be at the point where we can try a better method (or send out to a fab) | 12:31 |
| skorket | nmz787, can you speak a little bit about the pumps you guys use/are being used? | 12:33 |
| ParahSailin | 30 w co2 laser pulsed at 5khz doesnt sound too hard | 12:33 |
| ParahSailin | the ash doesnt look like too much of a problem | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | initially we'll probably use expensive positive displacement pumps from IDEX | 12:35 |
| nmz787 | basically a piece of acrylic (I think) with a piston hole cut out, a zirconia piston goes into that which is attached to a screw, with a stepper motor driving the screw | 12:36 |
| nmz787 | for on chip valving we'll start here | 12:37 |
| nmz787 | http://www.stanford.edu/group/foundry/Microfluidic%20valve%20technology.html | 12:37 |
| nmz787 | they use macro 3-way gas valves attached to a gas source, atmosphere, and the control channel | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | i think we could use small solenoids to act as on/off pumps for each control channel | 12:39 |
| ParahSailin | i remember using kapton membranes for valves | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | something like a small electronics inductor with a finish nail sized cylinder through the center | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | ebay also has $3 linear stepper actuators | 12:40 |
| nmz787 | but i'd like the cost per valve to be <$1 | 12:40 |
| skorket | nmz787 where on ebay do you see that? | 12:42 |
| skorket | and considering all you want is a binary on and off, no need to go into stepper motors, right? Even a DC motor will do... | 12:42 |
| ParahSailin | looks like this is a much better way to fabricate stuff than back when i was doing that | 12:43 |
| nmz787 | skorket: not finding them now | 12:46 |
| nmz787 | skorket: but I think that is a realistic price from china | 12:46 |
| ParahSailin | i bet it would work for my flow cytometry cell | 12:46 |
| skorket | maybe try alibaba when you get there | 12:46 |
| nmz787 | skorket: right, only need on/off.... which is why i was thinking just a solenoid | 12:47 |
| skorket | I had trouble finding DC motors for less than $1. I eventually got lucky and found a lot for .25 to .50 each but I had to dig | 12:47 |
| skorket | could always just roll your own solenoids too, might be a lot cheaper... | 12:47 |
| ParahSailin | you can use ozone to bond rather than reactive ion etching with o2? | 12:47 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 12:48 |
| nmz787 | isnt that basically the same thing? | 12:48 |
| ParahSailin | reactive ion etching means theres an evacuated chamber full of purple glowing argon o2 plasma | 12:49 |
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| ParahSailin | thats what we used, but we used that because we had that | 12:49 |
| nmz787 | so the diff is vacuum vs no vacuum? | 12:51 |
| nmz787 | i've done RIE but only once or twice | 12:51 |
| nmz787 | and it was for making transistors | 12:52 |
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| ParahSailin | well fire vs not fire, but it looks like people have success using uv ozone as a substitute | 12:53 |
| nmz787 | yeah i think some of the ozone machines are just using a voltage multiplier, not unlike the ionizers sold for home air purification | 12:55 |
| ParahSailin | get ozone machine from pool supplier | 12:58 |
| ParahSailin | easy | 12:58 |
| nmz787 | ooo | 13:17 |
| nmz787 | never knew that would be a source | 13:17 |
| ParahSailin | yah they are really cheap | 13:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | in many cases of working with high voltage, NOT making ozone is the goal | 13:29 |
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| katsmeow-afk | i seem to remember a few "electronic" air filters sold in stores could not get UL approval because they emitted way too much ozone, and probably on purpose | 13:44 |
| ParahSailin | i used to like those, and actually my apartment could probably use some cleansing flame of ozone | 13:46 |
| ParahSailin | though i know its shit for lungs | 13:46 |
| katsmeow-afk | generally burns anything trying to use it for regular oxygen | 13:47 |
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| nmz787 | i figure its too low concentration in the home filters to ever really get to your lungs | 14:07 |
| nmz787 | but yeah if you can smell it, its getting to your lungs i guess | 14:07 |
| kanzure | fan + window | 14:08 |
| ParahSailin | i really need to borrow some ozone gasser | 14:08 |
| ParahSailin | just to blast my place some weekend when im not home | 14:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | your smeller will prolly pass a lot of it to lungs before it reaches smelling thresholds | 14:09 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: we could add coloring to the particulates | 14:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | heh | 14:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | "what a pretty hue of green your lungs are" | 14:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | anyhow, ozone being a 3-atom molecule, adding a colorant may simply settle it to the ground, where we can walk on it | 14:12 |
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| ParahSailin | aubrey de gray is sort of a famous person in some circles right? | 14:26 |
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| katsmeow-afk | seems to be : http://duckduckgo.com/?q=Human+enhancement+aubrey+de+gray | 14:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | fwiw, https seems to work fine on that url too | 14:33 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: sure.. | 14:40 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us:9001/ has tons of his videos | 14:40 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: have you watched every one of those videos? | 14:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | or is your ocd better now? | 14:52 |
| kanzure | nmz787: most of them.. but not all at once | 14:56 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: laser cutting thin plywood is giving me a headache... we need to make sure we pay more attention to exhaust than my roommate has with this setup | 14:56 |
| kanzure | do you have a blower? | 14:57 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, how about sucking the fumes out, or through a bubbler ? | 14:57 |
| kanzure | i hooked up a blower to my laser cutter | 14:58 |
| kanzure | it blows out into a spray booth | 14:58 |
| kanzure | er.. with the spray booth turned on | 14:58 |
| nmz787 | spray booth? | 14:59 |
| kanzure | walk-in fume hood :P | 14:59 |
| nmz787 | we've got two exhaust fans going out the window | 14:59 |
| nmz787 | oOo | 14:59 |
| nmz787 | how the hell do you have that? | 14:59 |
| kanzure | austin hackerspace started out in this other hackerspace in austin | 14:59 |
| katsmeow-afk | is the question: how does one have two fans? | 14:59 |
| kanzure | anyway.. the guy who ran this shop had a giant spray booth | 15:00 |
| nmz787 | fan right on exterior of laser cutter, then a exhaust tube, then another fan right at the window | 15:00 |
| kanzure | hmm usually there's a tube hookup for the cutter itself? | 15:01 |
| nmz787 | yeah, thats where the first fan is | 15:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | the tube is your pinch point, use a duct as big as possible | 15:01 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 15:01 |
| kanzure | don't get motherfucking cancer | 15:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, pyrenes and all that rot | 15:01 |
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| nmz787 | shit | 15:02 |
| Mariu | kanzure, what do you think of that new Discovery Channel TV show with Adam Savage ? the one called Curiosity, mainly the episode called 'Can You Live Forever' | 15:04 |
| kanzure | Mariu: haven't watched it | 15:04 |
| Mariu | want link, or ... you will search it ? | 15:04 |
| kanzure | i don't really watch television | 15:04 |
| Mariu | gotcha | 15:04 |
| Mariu | same here | 15:04 |
| kanzure | ok. i recommend you just read aubrey's papers instead of discovery | 15:04 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity | 15:04 |
| Mariu | thanks kanzure ! | 15:04 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/Aubrey/ | 15:05 |
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| nmz787 | pretty stupid that this gets funded but not openSpectrometer | 18:17 |
| nmz787 | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/680121538/air-quality-egg?ref=city | 18:17 |
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| skorket | some of those tech projects on there are pretty hokey | 18:28 |
| skorket | openSpectrometer should ask for some money from kickstarter | 18:29 |
| yashgaroth | it's because people don't know what a spec does, compared to 'omg my airz' | 18:29 |
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| nmz787 | lame | 18:42 |
| nmz787 | whatev | 18:42 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, "editors picks" rss feed or no rss feeds .. GO! | 18:43 |
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| n_bentha | no rss feeds, plz | 18:45 |
| n_bentha | just update the damn webpages | 18:46 |
| delinquentme | n_bentha, CHECK | 18:56 |
| delinquentme | SKRAPING SKAPING SKRAPING | 19:01 |
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| uniqanomaly | fuckety fuck, and now gotta wait a week so 1st April shit will just die | 19:10 |
| n_bentha | what april 1st shit? | 19:12 |
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| n_bentha | where? | 19:12 |
| uniqanomaly | all of it, everywhere | 19:12 |
| n_bentha | i have not noticed anything today | 19:13 |
| n_bentha | then again, i didn't go outside todau | 19:14 |
| n_bentha | it's sunday! | 19:14 |
| uniqanomaly | I mean on the internet | 19:14 |
| uniqanomaly | everywhere = internet | 19:14 |
| uniqanomaly | capish? | 19:14 |
| uniqanomaly | :D | 19:14 |
| uniqanomaly | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17576745 | 19:15 |
| uniqanomaly | "The government will be able to monitor the calls, emails, texts and website visits of everyone in the UK under new legislation set to be announced soon." | 19:15 |
| uniqanomaly | thinking about moving to UK and its not fucking funny even a little bit | 19:15 |
| n_bentha | eh | 19:16 |
| n_bentha | I hope the news about suuyki or whatever winning isn't fake? | 19:16 |
| * katsmeow-afk posted that url here earlier | 19:17 | |
| katsmeow-afk | hmm, http://www.aliexpress.com/ precisely cloned ebay | 19:19 |
| n_bentha | that's more like alibaba, i don't think it's a clone, katsmeow-afk | 19:20 |
| uniqanomaly | katsmeow-afk: no url on my log :> | 19:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | [15:28] <katsmeow-afk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17576745 | 19:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | it was in the wrong room, sorry | 19:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | did you see http://freenode.net/privacy_change.html ? | 19:22 |
| uniqanomaly | yeah right like its not happening already | 19:23 |
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| uniqanomaly | moles are everywhere | 19:24 |
| uniqanomaly | I mean undercovers | 19:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | not the same as this url tho : http://freenode.net/group_privacy.shtml | 19:24 |
| uniqanomaly | :D | 19:24 |
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| kanzure | back in action | 19:28 |
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| nmz787 | https://picasaweb.google.com/109403794341975968814/MonkeyTestTubeRack#5726635079808098066 | 20:15 |
| kanzure | sup | 20:15 |
| kanzure | cute.. | 20:16 |
| kanzure | novelty tube racks would be nice.. i'd totally buy a gundam test tube holder | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | lol | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | brb | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | bbl | 20:16 |
| kanzure | like this except holding test tubes http://splashpage.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/061109_gundam2.jpg | 20:16 |
| kanzure | http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/06/11/life-size-gundam-built-in-japan/ | 20:17 |
| kanzure | actual site: http://mainichi.jp/enta/mantan/graph/anime/20090609_2/index.html | 20:17 |
| kanzure | gah it redirects | 20:17 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: how goes it | 20:22 |
| delinquentme | building indexes mang | 20:22 |
| delinquentme | building all the stuff that we need to properly index stuff | 20:23 |
| delinquentme | I LOVE WINE WINE WINE WINE | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | and DAFT PUNK PUNK PUNK PUNK | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPbbVfTxEQY | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you're gonna owe my girl a TYVMS for fooding me up and programming constantly | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | FYI | 20:31 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: that's becoming the case more and more frequently | 20:33 |
| kanzure | for instance, i'm pretty sure nmz787's girl hates me | 20:33 |
| kanzure | and fenn's probably does too | 20:33 |
| delinquentme | ha | 20:34 |
| kanzure | also: daft punk is my coding music of choice | 20:35 |
| delinquentme | shes cool .. shell be out there w us :D | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | convert her | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | she still wants do die for some reason | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | *shrug* | 20:36 |
| kanzure | tell her she's selfish | 20:36 |
| kanzure | for wanting to die. | 20:36 |
| kanzure | or, wait.. | 20:36 |
| kanzure | no, that doesn't work | 20:36 |
| kanzure | also it leads to no sex | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | lol i've got my laptop up on the tv | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | lololol | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | and she certainly wont reach her utmost potential when dead. | 20:37 |
| delinquentme | fer sheezy | 20:37 |
| Mariu | later guys | 20:55 |
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| ParahSailin | http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5473/coral-reefs-have-herpes | 21:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | oh great, now someone tells me this! | 21:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's dated April 2 | 21:23 |
| n_bentha | herpes?! | 21:24 |
| n_bentha | omg | 21:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1836/sunscreen-may-be-killing-corals | 21:27 |
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| AdrianG | are all SSRIs known for memory loss? | 21:58 |
| nmz787 | is there any way to judge if hormonal birth control changes long-term psychology? | 22:00 |
| nmz787 | in extreme cases ppl have bad acne and/or horrible cramps during their period, and hormonal bc can decrease those | 22:01 |
| nmz787 | so is it worse to be teased for acne, or struggle through monthly pain sessions for life than to have hormones potentially change your neuronal structure in some other way | 22:02 |
| kanzure | lots of girls complain about mental changes with hormonal birth control | 22:03 |
| kanzure | or.. they are being lied to by people who don't want them to take it | 22:03 |
| n_bentha | humans evolved for many years b4 hormonal b/c came about. i think it's best to fore-go the hormonal b/c. | 22:06 |
| n_bentha | that shit can also give girls acne or make them gain weight | 22:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | progesterone causes many changes, the physical changes alone can be enough to bitch about,, and progests are used to "chemically castrate" sex abusers | 22:07 |
| n_bentha | basically it's a hormonal imbalance (puberty?). they probably just need to calm down, drink some tea, and do some exercises | 22:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | i heard that and my fist thought was, oh right, now we have sex abusers with raging PMS too | 22:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | n_bentha, and next time you want sex, ow about instead you calm down, drink some tea, and do some exercises? | 22:09 |
| n_bentha | that's what i do! | 22:11 |
| n_bentha | It makes the sex more intense when my gf does put out. | 22:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | it has ALWAYS puzzled me that women take bc pills, and men get no anti-testosterone pills, and if you ask me, the teens need it | 22:12 |
| ParahSailin | there is no "anti-testosterone" | 22:13 |
| n_bentha | Heh. I just found out that pine pollen powder has a noticeable ammount of testosterone. | 22:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | there are anti-testo pills, that attach to sites to block, and to inhibit production | 22:14 |
| n_bentha | eh. Oxytocin = anti-testosterone? | 22:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | What then besides estrogen can cause inhibition? DHT, which does not aromatize, has been extensively shown to cause inhibition of testosterone production. Androgen alone, then, is sufficient to cause inhibition. | 22:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | Progesterone is another hormone that can cause inhibition, when used long-term. | 22:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://thinksteroids.com/articles/inhibition-and-recovery-of-natural-testosterone-production/ | 22:16 |
| n_bentha | Oh you meant testosterone inhibitors, not 'anti-test..'? Oxytocin's psych effects are mostly opposite testosterone's. | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | Testosterone secretion can be decreased: | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | by inhibiting the secretion of LH by the administration of gonadorelin, GnRH, in a continuous way ( See “hypothalamic Hormone: gonadorelin”. ) or by GnRH antagonists | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | by inhibiting testosterone synthesis in testes. Among the inhibitors, one can quote ketoconazole, antifungal which, in large doses, inhibits testosterone synthesis. | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | Inhibition of conversion of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone: 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors | 22:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | The inhibition of 5-alpha-steroid-reductase, present in certain organs such as prostate or skin, prevents the transformation of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone. | 22:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.pharmacorama.com/en/Sections/Androgen_steroid_hormones_2.php | 22:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | Androgens antagonists | 22:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | Estrogens and progesterone have a low anti-androgenic effect, but there are more powerful antagonists like cyproterone, flutamide, nilutamide and bicalutamide. | 22:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | nice article : http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/04/thinking-smarter-about-people-who-think-differently/ | 22:21 |
| n_bentha | "CDC report saying that one in 88 children is autistic" :O | 22:25 |
| n_bentha | No wai! | 22:25 |
| n_bentha | Idk if all the people now considered autistic are really autistic...Like how everybody now has a mental disorder... | 22:26 |
| katsmeow-afk | maybe they are pinning "autism" on anyone not like them | 22:26 |
| n_bentha | True. | 22:26 |
| n_bentha | But for kids that are really autistic like rain-man, I'm glad they get some positive publicity and I hope it helps them lead a happier life. | 22:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | like rainman? you do realise it's a wide spectrum? | 22:28 |
| n_bentha | Sorry, I don't know any other famous people with autism. I'm not ignorant. | 22:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | ah | 22:30 |
| n_bentha | But as I said earlier. The spectrum might be too wide. | 22:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | and the labeling too shallow | 22:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | given the way society operates, i'd bet that anyone autistic who is fitting in and famous, will not have it written on their forehead | 22:31 |
| n_bentha | Marty Balin (of jefferson airplane/starship) is apparently autistic. Maybe it was just the psychadelic drugs? | 22:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | i dunno, tho i liked some of their music | 22:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | too much mushroom soup can make one a vegetable, i have observed firsthand | 22:34 |
| n_bentha | Yea, they were a 70's band, so that was my guess. | 22:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | by mushroom in that context, i mean picked from cow patties in attempts to het wasted | 22:34 |
| n_bentha | 60's-2008+* | 22:34 |
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| katsmeow-afk | by cow patties in that context, i mean excrement, not off a bbq grill | 22:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | by excre,, oh, nm | 22:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | speaking of cows, http://duckduckgo.com/?q=cow+chutes+autism <<== links to a famous person | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | n_bentha: my gf is from india, she says U.S. has way too many mental diseases... | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | n_bentha: i gave an autistic friend something offa cow patty before | 22:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | usa *causes* too many mental diseases,, have you heard of Tea Party ? | 22:39 |
| n_bentha | nmz787: too many mental diseases as in....too many people are f'd up, or too many mental diseases are thrown around like paper airplanes? | 22:39 |
| n_bentha | also: that's cool. i was just saying maybe he (the jeffereson airplane guy) just thought differently because of his psychadelic experiences and ppl mislabled him as autistic? | 22:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | no clue, never met him | 22:40 |
| n_bentha | haha...silly tea party. tho ron paul has a nice foreign policy. ppl keep saying that's his only good point and that he wants to ruin everything else which is not quite right since he just don't want 'Federal' control--he wants to leave it up to the states to decide things. | 22:41 |
| katsmeow-afk | maybe, but Gingrich belongs in a institution | 22:41 |
| nmz787 | paper airplanes | 22:41 |
| n_bentha | /end political n_bentha's input | 22:41 |
| n_bentha | ah. yah...usa is retarded. | 22:42 |
| nmz787 | i guess its good for trying to help ppl, dialing in on what the exact prob is... but i think a shamanic/wholistic approach /may/ be more effective | 22:42 |
| n_bentha | I think psychiatrists/ologists 'have to' give you a mental disorder label if they see you as a patient. | 22:42 |
| nmz787 | U.S. is too reductive IMO | 22:43 |
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| katsmeow-afk | funny, i was talking to someone running a quicky store while waiting on tire stores to open the next day, he was from Jamaica, and discovered he couldn't tolerate the usa and was going back to Jamaicaasap | 22:43 |
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| nmz787 | humans are too complex, we just don't understand them/us enough to be reductionist... at least I'm happy not being a guinea pig until we have a few hundred more years of science | 22:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | i also was working a business as an employee, and the usa corp cold not get the business out of startup, so sold it to Japanese, by misrepresenting it like hell, and the Japanese closed it and now use the building as a warehouse | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | i say this as a person who's dealt with bioinformatics too... there's too much data to process as is, and we don't even have all the data (or know if we're looking at it the right way_ | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | ) | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | so you're saying U.S. is liar/shrewd? | 22:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | as one who was in the QC, manufacturing, and efficency study depts there at one time or another, as well as documenting the inefficency of the usa worker at that site, it's no wonder the place folded | 22:46 |
| skorket | nmz783, you don't believe kurzweil that by 2040-2060 or so that the singularity will have happened? | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | i don't follow kurzweil cuz my dad said he screwed over live musicians when he invented the synthesizer | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | and my dad is a musician | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | lol | 22:47 |
| katsmeow-afk | for instance for 4 years QC wom said the equipment maint guys slept all nite while machines crashed, so i was asked to put computer monitorng on the machines, and make printouts,,, and the printouts got torn up else everyone would have been fired | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | thats not totally the reason, actually | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | i just never looked him up | 22:48 |
| nmz787 | but my dad did say that | 22:48 |
| skorket | hmm | 22:48 |
| nmz787 | hah | 22:48 |
| nmz787 | so i dunno, i've heard he doesnt talk outta his ass tho | 22:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | other people came out with moogs and theramins, not just Kurzweil | 22:48 |
| yashgaroth | kurzweil's predictions are by far the most optimistic though | 22:48 |
| skorket | forgetting who he is, he's just looking at the rate of progress... | 22:48 |
| skorket | how it follows an exponential curve | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | in 1800s progress was termed a disease of the industrial revolution | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | sooo | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | opinions vary on if this sungularity is even ideal for everyone | 22:49 |
| katsmeow-afk | for everyone? nope | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | that is if anyone follows that logic these days | 22:50 |
| nmz787 | tech is def overrated in a lot of cases | 22:50 |
| nmz787 | i lived in a tent in the mojave desert for 9 months when i was 18 | 22:50 |
| n_bentha | Yup. | 22:50 |
| nmz787 | best year of my life | 22:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | tech could be used to solve a lot of problems, but it won't be | 22:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | free energy to power free transport so more people could go live in tents somewhere would prolly help a lot of people who cannot get there now, but it won't happen | 22:51 |
| n_bentha | Tech is used well in manufacturing, utilities management, and the military. | 22:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | but not in playing dvd's in home theatres? | 22:52 |
| n_bentha | I'd rather go to a theatre than the cinema anyway. | 22:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | when i had that flat, and all the tire stores at that exit were closed, there was no tech to see if a tire store was open at nearby exits,, and i'd have thought a telephone would have been enough | 22:54 |
| n_bentha | I wish payphones weren't phased out | 22:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | i had a cellphone, but no store names or numbers,, and neither did anyone else who was open after 10pm | 22:56 |
| n_bentha | I think they could have offered better rates or implemented a bus-card type system to make calls w/ | 22:56 |
| nmz787 | last time i saw a pay phone being used looked like it was for sketchy purposes | 22:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | a bus-card? you know most credit cards can be used to pay for calls? | 22:57 |
| n_bentha | that sux. i got a platinum AAA membership, so i never worry about car troubles. | 22:57 |
| n_bentha | yes katsmeow, but not in amerika where payphones don't exist. | 22:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | AAA would not have helped, i was safe at an quicky store, and wasn't broke down, and no tire store was open | 22:57 |
| n_bentha | and the creditcard fees are probably much to make calls cheap for phone companies | 22:57 |
| n_bentha | AAA will tow you for free | 22:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | the flat was on the dually axle, altho overweighted, the other tire held and could drive | 22:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | i did not need a tow | 22:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | who said i needed a tow? | 22:58 |
| n_bentha | OK! Sorry, i misunderstood. | 22:58 |
| nmz787 | well if you were overweighted, if you didn't have a trailer, it may have been safer to tow | 23:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | did point out tho, i need to put cameras and such so i can see these events happen under the truck while i am driving it, ditto for the car,, i need more technology (applied properly)!! | 23:00 |
| nmz787 | was the bed empty? or were you hauling? | 23:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | i was hauling 4 tons | 23:00 |
| nmz787 | :P | 23:00 |
| nmz787 | no towing that | 23:00 |
| nmz787 | well, no operator would like to put that on his truck | 23:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | the *one* tire was overweighted when the othe one blewup | 23:01 |
| nmz787 | AAA doesnt tow motorcycles, thats kinda lame | 23:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | on his truck, no way it would be put on a rollback | 23:01 |
| n_bentha | that's bs | 23:01 |
| n_bentha | so easy to tow a motorcycle | 23:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | but they won't or legally cannot without the "proper" equpimnent | 23:02 |
| n_bentha | 0_o | 23:03 |
| * katsmeow-afk goes away for a while | 23:03 | |
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| --- Log closed Mon Apr 02 00:00:17 2012 | ||
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