| --- Log opened Sun Apr 08 00:00:26 2012 | ||
| strangewarp | We could do, or have done, cool stuff. Also, it's more likely that people are modal construts in n-dimensional mind-space than any traditional cosmology being literally true. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sylph_mako | Cool stuff... if we could at least make the gods smile that would be good enough for me. Maybe they'd make more of us. So now we have to figure out why a higher dimensional being would simulate this universe and convince them that they either need to give us some kind of input/output into theirs[freeing us] or make more similar universes. OK that sounds impossible and fun. I have a purpose again. | 00:03 |
| strangewarp | (On the fence about the former, myself, as it's untestable, and one of several big-universe materialist models) | 00:03 |
| strangewarp | One second here... | 00:04 |
| strangewarp | I'm saying that we may live in a Big Universe, wherein every possible mind can be said to meaningfully exist, whether seperated via space (conventional Big Universe), timeline (provided quantum many-worlds is true), modal realism (every possible mind-state exists as a true mathematical construct), or some combination or variation thereof. | 00:06 |
| strangewarp | So you shouldn't have paranoid fantasies about overlords. If for some reason it were true, there would be uncountable identical lives where it would be false. | 00:07 |
| sylph_mako | Modal realism doesn't sound true since mathematical constructs are just patterns in brains. | 00:08 |
| sylph_mako | They don't exist in some concept space prior to discovery. | 00:08 |
| sylph_mako | We invented concept space too. | 00:08 |
| strangewarp | Matheatics is literally true in every possible universe, and therefore objectively true regardless of whether minds exist to think about it. | 00:09 |
| strangewarp | m* | 00:09 |
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| sylph_mako | Not so. Mathematics was designed from a basis of useful axioms. Though it's going to come out the same for any thinkers, utility was determined by trial and error. Not every possible logical system starts off with A AND NOT A as an axiom. Only the useful ones. | 00:13 |
| sylph_mako | I'm not sure why I expected that to change your mind. | 00:13 |
| sylph_mako | I was trying.. | 00:13 |
| strangewarp | Modal realism assumes that mathematics are meaningfully objective. There are other possible expressions of Big Universe cosmology in the case where said issue is controversial. So it's fine. | 00:15 |
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| strangewarp | I am a bit wibbly on the subject, admittedly, and I need to take some time at some point to catch up on maths, and philosophy of maths. | 00:22 |
| strangewarp | I decided it's probably best if I work on the concrete things where I have knowledge, for now, though, since I don't want to fall into the same pit on a personal level that LessWrong is trying to get out of on an organizational level. | 00:24 |
| sylph_mako | It would be helpful to me if you guys could tell me what's going wrong with lesswrong without me having to experience the problem myself. I havn't spent any time there but I'm seriously considering it. | 00:28 |
| strangewarp | Basically, they put themselves in a position of all theory, no engineering. I imagine the initial goal was that engineering would come out of theory, but now it's looking like certain theoretical problems are so intractable that they could only be solved by a massive engineering effort; but their theory has led to precautionary-principle-esque ideas like Friendly AI, so they're in a double-bind. | 00:44 |
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| sylph_mako | I see. | 01:05 |
| sylph_mako | Thank you. | 01:06 |
| sylph_mako | Though I'd be inclined to say we're all in that double-bind. | 01:06 |
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| diginet | I'm looking for a paper: "Microbial Production of Spider Silk Proteins" by Fahnestock, I have access to ScienceDirect, but I can't get that one, anyone here have more extensive access? | 01:17 |
| diginet | woops, sorry for sending that again | 01:17 |
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| strangewarp | sylph_mako: I see what you're getting at. I think they're only in the double-bind in the first place because they're pursuing a course of action that assumes they'll be able to disseminate the idea of Friendly AI to every relevant person before anyone starts building a Strong AI; and therefore that they should not pursue it as an engineering project in competition with others. Which I think is a pretty bad meta-mistake. | 01:22 |
| strangewarp | Anyway. gosh I wish LuaAV were available for Windows. | 01:22 |
| * strangewarp googling for hidden Lua-MIDI-OSC solutions on random programmers' websites | 01:23 | |
| sylph_mako | If that were true wouldn't you just be able to show them that and get them to change their approach? | 01:25 |
| strangewarp | I think people have tried; I'm not sure why it hasn't worked. | 01:26 |
| thylne | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plBm1FNh_00 | 01:45 |
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| skorket | re: new aesthetic http://inspire.2ia.pl/ | 03:04 |
| strangewarp | Mmmm | 03:12 |
| strangewarp | That feeling you get, when you find that a much more talented programmer has made something very similar to a project of your own, thus freeing you from the obligations of your own bad code... | 03:13 |
| strangewarp | skorket: interesting | 03:14 |
| skorket | strangewarp, I think that's a good example of the 'new aesthetic'. Maybe etsy, makezine, adafruit, sparkfun and the like as well? | 03:14 |
| skorket | A kind of mix of aesthetic, high/lo tech and functionality? | 03:15 |
| strangewarp | I think those are definite facilitators of new-aesthetic practices, yeah | 03:15 |
| strangewarp | Well, in the SXSW panel (which I haven't seen), Sterling's essay response, and the responses to Sterling, there has also been an emphasis on the imagery of glitch and machine-vision. | 03:15 |
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| skorket | strangewarp, this, for example, is not computer vision or glitch based: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120330-iris-van-herpens-3d-printed-dresses-in-groningen-museum.html | 03:37 |
| skorket | streling seems to be defining it as 'photoshop + british' though | 03:38 |
| strangewarp | Indeed, it's basically a collision of many influences, and I think Sterling and company are trying to make sense of it. | 03:38 |
| skorket | I mean, it seems like he already summed it up in Holy Fire | 03:41 |
| strangewarp | hmmm.. | 03:46 |
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| strangewarp | brb | 04:01 |
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| kanzure | http://nlpers.blogspot.com/2011/03/some-thoughts-on-supplementary.html | 08:33 |
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| delinquentme_ | HEPPY EASTER | 09:43 |
| delinquentme_ | YOU FILTHY HETHANS | 09:43 |
| delinquentme_ | HEATHAS? | 09:43 |
| delinquentme_ | idk | 09:43 |
| kanzure | what? | 09:44 |
| delinquentme_ | urgh | 09:50 |
| kanzure | crystal.parse_script_with_command_classes(0x560ee, force=True) | 09:50 |
| kanzure | doesn't work the first time. works the second time. :( | 09:50 |
| delinquentme_ | kanz brill is a huge publisher :D | 09:50 |
| kanzure | what is brill | 09:50 |
| delinquentme_ | a huge publisher? | 09:51 |
| kanzure | sounds like a food product. let's hack them. | 09:51 |
| delinquentme_ | doing it now hahah | 09:51 |
| delinquentme_ | been running a scraper for 20 minutes now | 09:51 |
| delinquentme_ | the longest job i've ever scraped | 09:51 |
| delinquentme_ | but that could be also bc their servers a wildy slow | 09:51 |
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| delinquentme_ | but i like the part where their analytics team can report that their CTRs are up by 20% ! | 09:52 |
| delinquentme_ | brb making fire | 09:52 |
| kanzure | most people don't measure CTRs from their web logs but instead only from javascript analytics | 09:52 |
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| delinquentme_ | kanzure, PMDS? | 10:40 |
| delinquentme_ | what material is it again | 10:40 |
| delinquentme_ | the microfluidic circuits | 10:40 |
| delinquentme_ | PDMS | 10:42 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme_: pdms | 10:48 |
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| ParahSailin | howdy | 12:13 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: sup? | 12:16 |
| ParahSailin | this is a whimsical idea i had -- put a termite salivary cellulase into black soldier fly larvae | 12:17 |
| ParahSailin | then turn newspaper into chicken food | 12:17 |
| ParahSailin | whimsical as i said, but almost plausible | 12:18 |
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| delinquentme_ | LOLlll | 13:50 |
| delinquentme_ | just finished brill | 13:50 |
| delinquentme_ | verifying | 13:51 |
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| sylph_mako | What on earth.. Every time I hear about OpenVIBE it's from an incidental search about some cool framework. EBML, OIS, Ogre3d.. it's like these people get it or something. Maybe my dev philosophy really is influenced by transhumanism. | 14:32 |
| kanzure | https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Agnusha.org+ogre3d | 14:41 |
| kanzure | https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Agnusha.org+openvibe | 14:42 |
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| ParahSailin | hax this? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852400001541 | 15:11 |
| ParahSailin | sciencedirect is a real bitch | 15:12 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Degumming%20of%20ramie%20fibers%20by%20alkalophilic%20bacteria%20and%20their%20polysaccharide-degrading%20enzymes.pdf | 15:17 |
| ParahSailin | thanks | 15:17 |
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| nmz787 | Joining you from 3g on my mobile phone! | 15:47 |
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| ParahSailin | hax this? http://www.springerlink.com/content/c767m270301871v1/ | 15:56 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: howdy | 16:13 |
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| kanzure | "pacman the movie" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7oadchZMYA | 16:17 |
| ThomasEgi | well made | 16:24 |
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| kanzure | yo nmz787 .. email. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | carl sent out something to jonathan cline >_< | 16:43 |
| kanzure | MarcSav: hello. what brings you here? | 16:45 |
| nmz787 | Reading | 16:45 |
| nmz787 | Ewod? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | EWOD is electrowetting on dielectric | 16:45 |
| kanzure | jonathan made some prototypes and blogged about it to diybio | 16:45 |
| kanzure | http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/tag/microfluidics | 16:45 |
| kanzure | http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/280 | 16:46 |
| MarcSav | kanzure: i love openhardware and i'm interessed in hackerspaces | 16:46 |
| kanzure | follow up to #280 is: http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/338 | 16:46 |
| MarcSav | i'm from switzerland, and yes here we have some hackerspaces too ;) | 16:46 |
| kanzure | nmz787: "A droplet from a pipette can be moved across electrical contacts using medium-high voltage (400V to 700V) on a standard printed circuit board." | 16:47 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure, i grabbed that paper through vpn, you want any help downloading journal articles? | 16:48 |
| nmz787 | Elecytrolysis must be happening?? | 16:48 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: sure- evnetually- but not right now | 16:48 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Electrowetting-based%20actuation%20of%20liquid%20droplets%20for%20microfluidic%20applications.pdf | 16:49 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Electrowetting%20droplet%20microfluidics%20on%20a%20single%20planar%20surface.pdf | 16:49 |
| kanzure | nmz787: iphone version :P http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Single-sided%20continuous%20optoelectrowetting%20(SCOEW)%20for%20droplet%20manipulation%20with%20light%20patterns%20-%20LCD%20-%202010.pdf | 16:49 |
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| nmz787 | Seems alright, would require those special layers.... I don't think valving will be a problem, we can figure that out | 16:56 |
| kanzure | EWOD doesn't need valving - just move the drops out of the way (it's on a grid) | 16:56 |
| nmz787 | I think its gonna cost more with ewod | 16:58 |
| kanzure | yep that's why i haven't brought it up really | 16:59 |
| kanzure | but that's what jonathan has expertise with | 16:59 |
| nmz787 | Ahh | 16:59 |
| kanzure | 88proof is jcline's blog | 16:59 |
| nmz787 | Sure | 16:59 |
| nmz787 | Who does he work for | 17:00 |
| kanzure | he got a job in 2009 or 2010 with some company in san diego i think.. just some electronics firm | 17:00 |
| nmz787 | Cool | 17:00 |
| nmz787 | As for consultants, I know some good guys up here | 17:00 |
| nmz787 | Optics, fluidics, electronics, DSP, analog | 17:01 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure there's any consultant who would be able to design a working micro DNA synthesizer | 17:01 |
| nmz787 | So I can get some of that free | 17:01 |
| nmz787 | Or for booze | 17:01 |
| nmz787 | Nope, but we're gonna orchestrated that | 17:02 |
| nmz787 | These guys just started getting into medical device developnment when I left | 17:03 |
| roksprok_ | are you all trying to do something similar to this: Microfluidic PicoArray synthesis ? http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/18/5409.full | 17:08 |
| kanzure | roksprok_: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/Synthesis%20-%20Microfluidic%20PicoArray%20synthesis%20of%20oligodeoxynucleotides%20and%20simultaneous%20assembling%20of%20multiple%20DNA%20sequences%20(10%20kb).pdf | 17:08 |
| kanzure | roksprok_: or see others here.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/ | 17:08 |
| roksprok_ | is the goal an opensource version? or do all those have flaws you're trying to overcome? | 17:09 |
| kanzure | iirc the 2004 picoarray article was a continuous flow device w/ a digital light projector or digital mirror array. the oligo synthesis method we've been thinking of using would not be using light or DLPs or DMDs. | 17:09 |
| kanzure | roksprok_: the goal is an open source, low cost DNA synthesizer | 17:10 |
| roksprok_ | its that 6mer one right? | 17:10 |
| kanzure | what | 17:10 |
| roksprok_ | the reaction cycle....i think i remember one that took a 6 base long fragment and duplicated it? | 17:11 |
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| kanzure | the 6mer stuff is a different method (not raw chemistry but instead a ligation method- constructing a longer string by sequential concatenation) | 17:11 |
| kanzure | roksprok_: yeah that's a different technique but it should definitely be tested because its results would be far superior to phosphoramidite chemistry | 17:11 |
| roksprok_ | how much is low cost? | 17:12 |
| kanzure | well most dna synthesizers cost $150k-$200k new, and at least $20k used for something working/modern | 17:13 |
| kanzure | so low cost to me is <$10k | 17:13 |
| roksprok_ | ah...cool | 17:14 |
| kanzure | that oligomaker product costs about $60k new but i'm not sure- nobody tells you prices these days.. | 17:14 |
| yashgaroth | you can probably lease it, if it's the akta one | 17:15 |
| kanzure | sure sure | 17:16 |
| kanzure | ctobin: hey. | 17:16 |
| nmz787 | Sup ctobin | 17:19 |
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| ctobin | what's up. You successfully convinced me to join :) | 17:24 |
| kanzure | hooray | 17:24 |
| kanzure | ctobin: today we're scraping brill.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py | 17:25 |
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| ctobin | how can i help? | 17:27 |
| kanzure | ezproxy.py is a plugin architecture for multiple scrapers | 17:28 |
| kanzure | i am deploying it on a central server and we'll all just login and commit new scrapers to the project | 17:28 |
| kanzure | and add new proxies for it to use (although, the proxying is not active at the moment) | 17:28 |
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| kanzure | ctobin: one way would be to review that code and see what you think. i have been considering doing this in mongodb so that the schema won't matter so much. not sure.. | 17:29 |
| kanzure | mongo_engine or something might be a better choice than quick_orm/sqlalchemy | 17:29 |
| kanzure | ctobin: another way you could potentially help is with the scraper/adapter model.. i.e., i haven't fully fleshed out what all the necessary methods on each scraper should be. i definitely think we need to be able to scrape/update journals from each publisher, and also papers/citations. need to be able to say that we are 100% certain that we have a complete index of ACS or something. | 17:31 |
| ctobin | why do you want to use no-sql? It seems like this type of data would lend itself well to sql since most of the meta data is very consistent - volume, issue, page number, author names, etc. | 17:32 |
| kanzure | metadata is consistent on a single publisher | 17:32 |
| kanzure | but take elsevier/sciencedirect for instance.. they have custom attributes | 17:33 |
| kanzure | (beyond the normal attributes) | 17:33 |
| ctobin | oh, i see | 17:33 |
| kanzure | *shrug* i could be convinced either way. obviously i am already using sqlite so.. heh | 17:33 |
| ctobin | lol, that will get slow really quick, once you have all of sciencedirect scraped :) | 17:34 |
| kanzure | true. at first i did a javascript-based scraper.. | 17:35 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/sciencedirect/sciencedirect.js | 17:35 |
| kanzure | the one in ezproxy.py only implements "gathering/updating a list of journals" but nothing about individual papers, issues, volumes, books, etc. | 17:36 |
| kanzure | yeah, again maybe mongo is the way to go.. | 17:36 |
| ctobin | I'll take a look at the code this evening, I gotta get going right now though. | 17:37 |
| kanzure | ok cool thanks | 17:37 |
| Pupuser-1 | hey | 17:38 |
| kanzure | Pupuser-1: hello | 17:38 |
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| Pupuser-1 | hey KAnzure | 17:40 |
| kanzure | nmz787: not happy with android? | 17:41 |
| Pupuser-1 | same here | 17:41 |
| kanzure | oh nevermind. thought he switched clients. it's still androirc. | 17:41 |
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| nmz787 | Umm I just got home, didn't handle the network switch | 17:42 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: email | 18:00 |
| kanzure | reading | 18:00 |
| kanzure | looks sane | 18:01 |
| kanzure | jcline was getting a little carried away with "Sounds more like you have a laser cutter and want to do something with it. That's OK but a different problem." hehe | 18:02 |
| nmz787 | yeah its a misunderstanding though for sure | 18:06 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: his name is max reason? | 18:07 |
| kanzure | that's almost as geeky as max more.. http://www.maxmore.com/extprn3.htm | 18:08 |
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| kanzure | F7: what's up? | 18:12 |
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| kanzure | "The Neuro Bureau is proud to announce the 2012 Brainhack to be held from September 1-4 at the Max Plank Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences in Leipzig, Germany." | 18:32 |
| kanzure | "Brainhack is a unique event with the goals of fostering interdisciplinary collaboration and open neuroscience. The structure for the conference builds from the concepts of an unconference and hackathon." | 18:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.cbs.mpg.de/events/workshops/brainhack | 18:33 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: wb | 20:28 |
| n_bentha | thx | 20:34 |
| n_bentha | hey where's my welcome back? | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | thx | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | its great to be back | 20:35 |
| kanzure | n_bentha: lost in the mail | 20:35 |
| n_bentha | :) | 20:37 |
| diginet | is pichia pastoris a proprietary system? | 20:37 |
| yashgaroth | no, but expression vectors and specialized subclones often are | 20:39 |
| diginet | urgh, the patenting of genes disturbs me | 20:40 |
| yashgaroth | well that's the basis of most of the biotechnology industry | 20:40 |
| diginet | bleh, biotechnology | 20:40 |
| diginet | I like it from a research perspective | 20:40 |
| diginet | but I get sick of the emtpy promises and proprietary nature of the companies | 20:41 |
| yashgaroth | well, until public funding steps up, capitalism is the only way, sadly | 20:41 |
| yashgaroth | most of the specific gene patents are expiring soon since they all got discovered in the early 90s | 20:42 |
| diginet | that's good at least | 20:42 |
| diginet | is it just me, or is biotech the trending thing for colleges to stress right now? When I was doing college tours I couldn't stop hearing about it | 20:42 |
| diginet | *trendy | 20:43 |
| yashgaroth | comp sci was the trendy one when I went | 20:43 |
| yashgaroth | but yeah everyone's hopping on the bandwagon since biotech is new and exciting | 20:43 |
| diginet | comp sci: the only field more subject to fashion than the fashion industry itself | 20:43 |
| yashgaroth | 'which of these 50 programming languages shall we teach these undergrads?' | 20:44 |
| diginet | the lack of rigour I see in a lot of comp sci stuff is rather appalling | 20:44 |
| diginet | phenomenology is not science: I want OS research, not figuring whether X version of X protocol will make something negligibly faster | 20:45 |
| yashgaroth | well that's most of biology | 20:45 |
| yashgaroth | phenomenons that is, not operating systems | 20:46 |
| diginet | I don't see it as much the same though: it's one thing to study the natural world, it's another thing to not produce anything, when that's the very nature of a field. It seems to me comp sci people spend more time talking about the next big thing than actually programming | 20:47 |
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| diginet | I see the biggest jokes, papers on storing X in the cloud, so the same thing people have been doing for years, plus buzzword compliance | 20:47 |
| diginet | I also get sick of the bullshitty PopSci-esque pseudo-futurism that is usually employed to sell someone the proverbial bridge in Brooklyn | 20:48 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with running xorg in the cloud? | 20:49 |
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| kanzure | "!ムゃぬゃ9クくゃぺ0!い1れきヲらすへャぺ0!い1れきヲらすへャ…ム…ブ♀ぢっュわとぶゲ2" | 20:51 |
| kanzure | blergh this doesn't make sense | 20:51 |
| yashgaroth | that's because it's a bunch of squares with circles in them | 20:52 |
| diginet | "running it in the cloud" is just running it remotely, but with obnoxious jargon | 20:52 |
| n_bentha | it's all japanese to me | 20:52 |
| diginet | which, mind you, it was designed to do from the beggining | 20:52 |
| diginet | that's the POINT of X | 20:52 |
| diginet | and, the "cloud" presents my 5-year old understanding of the internet: some magical place where data floats around | 20:53 |
| kanzure | X is a perfectly fine network-based windowing environment | 20:53 |
| kanzure | i really have no idea why you are hating on X | 20:53 |
| diginet | I don't hate on X | 20:53 |
| diginet | I hate on ZOMG CLOUD | 20:53 |
| kanzure | fun fact: gnusha.org is hosted by the same people who host X.org | 20:54 |
| diginet | (although, I liked NeWS better) | 20:54 |
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| diginet | no, you're missing the point | 20:54 |
| diginet | I'm saying, when you run X remotely that's it, you're not running it "ON THE CLOUD" | 20:54 |
| diginet | it's just needless jargon | 20:54 |
| kanzure | are you talking about X the server | 20:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | they might have needed to make new jargon and use it to avoid people remembering the RPC hacking in windows | 20:55 |
| kanzure | or X the "I can't think of a better variable" | 20:55 |
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| diginet | I'm not talking about X specifically, I'm saying I hate this stupid cloud computing nonsense | 20:56 |
| diginet | when in reality, it's the same exact thing that we've done with computers since their inception, plus buzzwords | 20:56 |
| kanzure | virtualization? | 20:57 |
| diginet | oh gawd, that's even worse | 20:57 |
| diginet | try IBM VM | 20:57 |
| diginet | late 60s/early 70s | 20:57 |
| diginet | or, I dunno, the freaking Church-Turing Theorem | 20:59 |
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| delinquentme_ | http://www.publish.csiro.au/nid/17.htm 55 tables on the first page alone | 21:01 |
| delinquentme_ | ... seems reasonable | 21:01 |
| kanzure | what is csiro :\ | 21:03 |
| kanzure | "CSIRO PUBLISHING publishes journals presenting the latest research" | 21:03 |
| delinquentme_ | lol | 21:04 |
| delinquentme_ | your list bro! | 21:04 |
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| delinquentme_ | they got skipped | 21:45 |
| delinquentme_ | that website is a mess | 21:45 |
| kanzure | nice | 21:48 |
| diginet | I was reading up on OpenPCR, and I know this has probably been belabored ad nauseum on this channel, but isn't $599 a little outrageous for a heat cycler? That's too much for a DIYer, and a University lab would just buy a professional machine | 22:04 |
| diginet | unless I'm missing something. . . | 22:04 |
| diginet | I mean, with 3D printers, the stepper motors add up quickly, and the extruder can be expensive | 22:05 |
| kanzure | yes $599 is very outrageous | 22:07 |
| kanzure | you can definitely rig up a nice system for <$100 | 22:08 |
| kanzure | but here's the thing- companies are still selling >$10k versions anyway.. | 22:08 |
| diginet | I mean, one can buy a used PCR machine for like $300-400 online anyway, why would you pay more for something you have to assemble? | 22:09 |
| diginet | do you think one could manually control the PCR process is money/effort was a concern? Or is it too sensitive? | 22:10 |
| kanzure | because the used machine probably wont work | 22:10 |
| diginet | true | 22:10 |
| diginet | well, maybe, who knows | 22:10 |
| kanzure | people used to just dunk tubes into water baths at specific temperatures, yes | 22:10 |
| diginet | that seems easier | 22:11 |
| kanzure | easier! what | 22:11 |
| kanzure | you and i have dramatically different ideas of easier | 22:11 |
| diginet | easier than building my own machine, writing the code, designing a circuit board for a one-off thing | 22:11 |
| kanzure | or you can just use plans from the interwebs? | 22:11 |
| kanzure | like between us in here i think we have at least 10-20 thermocycler designs :( | 22:11 |
| diginet | oh I didn't even think about that, sometimes I have really stupid moments :P | 22:12 |
| diginet | I'm trying to compile a list of everything I'm going to need | 22:13 |
| diginet | what's the best/cheapest primer service? | 22:13 |
| kanzure | i think everyone just uses idt or sigma | 22:15 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: what do you prefer? | 22:16 |
| kanzure | n_bentha: ParahSailin: or what do you guys use? | 22:16 |
| ParahSailin | idt is the best primer service, they give me .15/bp at the smallest batch size | 22:16 |
| n_bentha | hey kanzure | 22:18 |
| yashgaroth | we used idt I think | 22:18 |
| n_bentha | sigma i think | 22:18 |
| diginet | thanks guys | 22:20 |
| yashgaroth | sigma tends to be dicks to individuals, dunno if that extends to primers | 22:20 |
| diginet | I've heard bad things about sigma | 22:21 |
| diginet | (just in general) | 22:21 |
| yashgaroth | i.e. will not ship anything to a residential address | 22:22 |
| yashgaroth | they're the gold standard for a lot of reagents, but you don't need that for this | 22:23 |
| diginet | how much does Taq cost? | 22:23 |
| kanzure | diginet: a diy taq production rig would be really insanely popular | 22:23 |
| kanzure | just fyi. if you want to do that for us you would be loved. | 22:23 |
| yashgaroth | you're gonna need Pfu for cloning | 22:24 |
| ParahSailin | just random-- i wonder how long before "gold standard" becomes a completely dead metaphor | 22:24 |
| yashgaroth | taq's good for sequencing but it has a terrible error rate | 22:24 |
| yashgaroth | dunno, you're the libertarian :V | 22:24 |
| ParahSailin | diginet, i got some kapa you can use | 22:24 |
| diginet | ParahSailin, aww, thanks :) | 22:24 |
| diginet | is kapa better? | 22:24 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: you can do directed evolution of polymerase to get something better pretty fast | 22:24 |
| yashgaroth | mmmmmmmaybe | 22:25 |
| ParahSailin | kapa hifi is pretty much the best pol | 22:25 |
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| diginet | I bet its pretty expensive :) | 22:25 |
| diginet | :( I mean | 22:25 |
| yashgaroth | not if you're only doing a few reactions...well, not super expensive | 22:25 |
| ParahSailin | they're all about $60-70 for 50 rxns, 230ish for 200 rxns | 22:25 |
| ParahSailin | 250 rxns i guess is usually the next step up | 22:26 |
| diginet | for diy taq, wouldn't we just need to find a specimen of the bacterium it came from? | 22:27 |
| ParahSailin | pretty much any enzyme in the tube is about the same price | 22:27 |
| ParahSailin | wild type taq is pretty shitty | 22:27 |
| yashgaroth | that species only lives in hot vents or something | 22:28 |
| diginet | the sequence for non-wild taq expired right? | 22:28 |
| ParahSailin | we have a stock of taq in the freezer here though | 22:28 |
| diginet | yashgaroth, yeah that's right | 22:28 |
| yashgaroth | taq's fine for sequencing purposes | 22:28 |
| ParahSailin | the bug i mean | 22:28 |
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| diginet | well I'm saying kanzure was talking about diy taq, couldn't the gene just be put in e. coli? | 22:28 |
| ParahSailin | thats what they do | 22:29 |
| kanzure | what would be the diy purification method anyway? | 22:29 |
| kanzure | antibody affinity? | 22:29 |
| ParahSailin | elp tag | 22:29 |
| yashgaroth | tagged, yeah | 22:29 |
| * ParahSailin hasnt done anything with the elp tag yet | 22:30 | |
| yashgaroth | even strep or his tagged would be fine I'd think | 22:30 |
| yashgaroth | don't need no fancy self-cleavin' peptides | 22:30 |
| kanzure | we do need someone to do a writeup for a general diy protein purification project | 22:30 |
| ParahSailin | elp doesnt need any fancy columns | 22:30 |
| kanzure | polymerase is usually the most needed | 22:30 |
| diginet | kanzure, well, I'm going to experiment with that necessarily, I'll try and document my findings | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | wait what resin do you use for elp then | 22:31 |
| ParahSailin | diginet, you wanna chip in to buy some bsrgi? | 22:31 |
| ParahSailin | i need that for cloning into the elp plasmid | 22:31 |
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| ParahSailin | elp tag precipitates itself, and you spin it down | 22:32 |
| yashgaroth | oh awesome | 22:32 |
| diginet | what is bsrgi? | 22:32 |
| diginet | err, will google | 22:32 |
| diginet | brb | 22:32 |
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| diginet | restriction enzyme? | 22:33 |
| yashgaroth | yup | 22:33 |
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| diginet | I wish I could, I literally have no cash right now | 22:34 |
| diginet | I feel bad for not being able to, after all you guys are really awesome :( | 22:36 |
| nmz787 | what are you guys talking about?> | 22:40 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: taq production, elp, stuff. | 22:42 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-04-08.log | 22:42 |
| nmz787 | elp? | 22:42 |
| nmz787 | emerson lake and palmer? | 22:43 |
| yashgaroth | yes | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | nah common | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | what is the tag | 22:43 |
| yashgaroth | elastin-like polypeptide, seems to have inducible precipitation so you can purify by centrifugal pelleting | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | from crude cell lysate? | 22:45 |
| nmz787 | wouldn't you get cell debris? | 22:45 |
| nmz787 | googling | 22:45 |
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| flamot | http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/ca-ga.html new windows versions, check out stim, the best | 22:45 |
| flamot | evolving grid! makes a sound wave | 22:45 |
| flamot | some of em | 22:45 |
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| flamot | >:3 | 22:45 |
| flamot | check out stim | 22:45 |
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| @kanzure | klfsdkjfklasdfjklasdfjkald | 22:45 |
| @kanzure | kldfjaslfjlaskfjklasdfjaskl | 22:45 |
| yashgaroth | I dunno the specifics, I only heard about the tag after parahsailin mentioned, think it's fairly new | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | interesting | 22:46 |
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| nmz787 | cathal hsa mentioned this i think | 22:47 |
| ParahSailin_ | anyone want the plasmids for elp? | 22:48 |
| nmz787 | ParahSaili_ you got em? | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | ParahSailin_: you got em? | 22:49 |
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| ParahSailin_ | yes | 22:49 |
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| nmz787 | ParahSailin_: you gonna have them for a while? 6 months from now? | 22:51 |
| ParahSailin_ | the stocks are in a -70 | 22:51 |
| nmz787 | cool | 22:52 |
| skorket | guess we're not big fans of stim on this channel | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | skorket: there's a long story | 22:53 |
| skorket | oh? He's not just a random spammer? | 22:53 |
| nmz787 | lol | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | homeless schizophrenic who believes the singularity aliens have implanted a chip in his brain | 22:54 |
| skorket | are you serious? | 22:54 |
| yashgaroth | heh | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | yes http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | he made slashdot | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/10/23/1957223/Electronic-Life-Makes-Evolving-Art | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | pfft i've made slashdot | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | that doesn't make me crazy | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | i swear | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | lol | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | i see | 22:55 |
| ParahSailin_ | nmz787, i forwarded docs on the elp plasmid | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | sweet | 22:55 |
| yashgaroth | ooh lemme get those too please | 22:56 |
| skorket | weird | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | < fenn> obviously the greyfaces are targeting us transhumanists with their mind control beams, and that's why nothing is happening | 22:57 |
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| ParahSailin_ | yashgaroth, email? | 22:58 |
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| yashgaroth | pm | 22:58 |
| kanzure | skorket: for the rest of the story.. http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-04-06.log | 23:00 |
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| skorket | Pretty wild. The new timecube | 23:05 |
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| sylph_mako | I thought greyface was a discordian figure. Isn't the proper term for the aliens "the greys"? | 23:21 |
| yashgaroth | that's what the aliens want you to think | 23:21 |
| sylph_mako | no I very much doubt that. | 23:22 |
| yashgaroth | the aliens also want you to think that | 23:22 |
| sylph_mako | I wonder if flamot has endeavored to develop a way of thinking that can't be controlled by the greyfaces. | 23:24 |
| sylph_mako | I can think of one. | 23:24 |
| diginet | "greys" are all just a ruse by the reptilians to cover up the truth that the earth is flat and beyond the ice walls there exists vast reserves of natural resources | 23:24 |
| ParahSailin_ | actually the aliens are already in plain sight | 23:24 |
| ParahSailin_ | the han chinese are in fact an alien race | 23:24 |
| ParahSailin_ | which can be identified by their lack of earwax | 23:24 |
| diginet | http://qkme.me/3opekv | 23:26 |
| diginet | my link = truth about this | 23:27 |
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| sylph_mako | What does he mean by humans. | 23:28 |
| sylph_mako | Is he imagining greys dragging plows and eating pizza? | 23:28 |
| sylph_mako | This is one of the less paranoia inducing conspiracy keanus. | 23:29 |
| nmz787 | this one is better | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | 1.0909090909090909090909090909091 | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | http://qkme.me/3onmap | 23:33 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Apr 09 00:00:27 2012 | ||
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