| --- Log opened Sat Apr 21 00:00:45 2012 | ||
| klafka1 | hahaha my gf just yelled at our annoying roommates for leaving the door open | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| klafka1 | that was fairly amusing | 00:01 |
| bkero | Ahh yea | 00:07 |
| bkero | just got my absinthe set going well | 00:07 |
| bkero | Using a 25ml burette to titrate myself a nice glass of absinthe | 00:08 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 00:36 |
| fenn | "Written in PHP, so literally anyone can contribute, even if they have no idea how to program." | 00:44 |
| @kanzure | "In fact, we don't even know" | 00:45 |
| JayDugger | What do you two mock by quotation? | 00:48 |
| fenn | phabricator | 00:48 |
| fenn | i'm pretty impressed by this smart watch, only wondering why it didn't appear 5 years ago: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android | 00:49 |
| JayDugger | describing it with glowing terms like "okay" and "mandatory". | 00:49 |
| fenn | the snark level on that page is pretty high | 00:49 |
| JayDugger | I'll say. | 00:50 |
| JayDugger | I had nicer and sincere comments about my employer's half-assed home-made issue tracking system when interviewed last week at the annual witch hunt. | 00:50 |
| JayDugger | After all, telling in plain English "rip it out and replace it with Bugzilla" would've counted as shitting in the punch bowl. | 00:51 |
| fenn | sometimes the punch needs a little shit in it | 00:52 |
| JayDugger | Amen. | 00:52 |
| JayDugger | How does that pebble watch differ from other Android watches? | 00:52 |
| fenn | it's "e-paper"! | 00:52 |
| JayDugger | That covers a square on the buzzword bingo card, yes. :) | 00:53 |
| fenn | well, it's sunlight readable, and low power usage (though the 7 day battery life is pretty lame, considering the display doesn't use any power) | 00:53 |
| fenn | my casio f-91W is like 5 _year_ battery life | 00:54 |
| @kanzure | well clearly your casio isn't parsing javascript | 00:54 |
| JayDugger | I'll think I'll stick with my casio solar-powered atomic-clock signal receiving five-year old watch. | 00:55 |
| JayDugger | Javascript or no. | 00:55 |
| fenn | your watch will be useless when the atoms run out | 00:55 |
| JayDugger | Very true. I should live long enough to have that problem. | 00:56 |
| JayDugger | At which time I'll not worry about much, assuming no radical substrate changes. :) | 00:56 |
| JayDugger | Fenn, do you still track your time with accuracy? | 00:56 |
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| fenn | yep | 02:31 |
| fenn | i'm a bit behind on transcribing from my paper notebook | 02:31 |
| fenn | damn i need to meet this jonathan toomim | 02:33 |
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| fenn | meh http://brainworkshop.net/ | 02:38 |
| fenn | unfortunately this dual n-back stuff takes a lot of effort | 02:39 |
| fenn | effort i could be using to .. you know, do stuff | 02:39 |
| fenn | interesting at first glance http://jtoomim.org/creatine_intelligence.pdf | 02:42 |
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| kristianpaul | moin | 05:39 |
| delinquentme | hey there kristianpaul | 05:41 |
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| @kanzure | beepity boop | 07:42 |
| eudoxia | beep boop | 07:44 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: haven't heard from you in a while | 07:44 |
| eudoxia | "JIT compilation is not that hard, I'll have a prototype in three days" | 07:45 |
| eudoxia | "oh my god it's been three months where am I" | 07:45 |
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| eudoxia | and school has a different schedule on the other side of the equator | 07:46 |
| @kanzure | compilers are a daunting beast | 07:47 |
| @kanzure | you should make a compiler compiler first | 07:47 |
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| eudoxia | I can't allow my projects to recursively subdivide any further | 07:47 |
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| eudoxia | so, anyways, any interesting new stuff? | 07:50 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: yep, you've missed everything | 07:52 |
| delinquentme | i had a baby! | 07:53 |
| delinquentme | ( not really ) | 07:53 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: I inferred that from the size of the logs | 07:54 |
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| delinquentme | so whats up with the new mini thermal printers | 07:55 |
| delinquentme | kind cool :D | 07:55 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, u want go microcontroller shooping w me <3 | 07:59 |
| delinquentme | i lik dis wan http://www.dfrobot.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=35_38&product_id=589 | 08:02 |
| delinquentme | im not sure if its got sufficient IO | 08:02 |
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| diginet | so I had an idea: use e. coli to produce each variety of oligopeptide I need, and then use ligation to connect them to each other | 09:39 |
| n_bentha | that was my idea... | 09:40 |
| vrs | hasn't that been done already? | 09:41 |
| n_bentha | probably | 09:42 |
| diginet | n_bentha, it was? I didn't remember that? cool! | 09:42 |
| diginet | vrs, I'm fairly certain it's in use | 09:42 |
| n_bentha | http://www.mimotopes.com/customPeptides.asp | 09:42 |
| diginet | I shouldn't say it was "my" idea, I should've said, I might try that or something | 09:42 |
| diginet | sorry n_bentha, I honestly did not remember you saying that, I didn't mean to take credit for your idea or anything :/ | 09:43 |
| n_bentha | it's cool. i'm sure other ppl thought of it too | 09:44 |
| diginet | anyway, I've been looking over the sequence of the spidroin protein | 09:46 |
| diginet | I noticed some interesting patterns | 09:46 |
| diginet | besides the obvious ones others have noticed | 09:46 |
| diginet | of the glycine and alanine rich areas, if you treat each module as a "sentence" where the end is the alanine blocks, there's a pattern of two long sentences, and two short sentences that repeats | 09:47 |
| n_bentha | Can you put that into more scientific terms? I'm not quite sure what you mean | 09:48 |
| n_bentha | so like x-x-x-ala-ala-x-x-x-ala-ala-x-x-x-x-x-x-ala-ala-x-x-x-x-x-x-ala-ala ? | 09:49 |
| n_bentha | where the ala-ala is the alanine block, and the x's are other amino acid's? | 09:49 |
| n_bentha | or would the x's be mostly glycine's | 09:49 |
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| diginet | hold on, let me put it in a pastebin | 09:50 |
| n_bentha | use the new anon pastebin | 09:50 |
| * n_bentha just wants to see it | 09:51 | |
| ParahSailin__ | maybe try bombyx fibroin gene since its all sequenced | 09:54 |
| diginet | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/150416773 | 09:54 |
| n_bentha | Yea but silkworm's silk is triangular whereas spiders' is circular | 09:54 |
| n_bentha | (tubular?) | 09:55 |
| diginet | ParahSailin__, the black widow spidroins are fully sequenced as well | 09:55 |
| ParahSailin__ | but thats probably a property of the silkworm's asshole rather than intrinsic to the peptide | 09:55 |
| ParahSailin__ | put out a request for a bwidow on zaarly | 09:55 |
| ParahSailin__ | or craigslist | 09:55 |
| diginet | might be easier just to pay to have short oligos synthesized | 09:57 |
| diginet | they're only like 60 bp long | 09:57 |
| diginet | Ideally, I would chemically synthesize all of the oligopeptides, but I don't know if that's possible yet, on a macroscopic scale | 09:58 |
| n_bentha | i guess u already saw this one, right? | 09:58 |
| n_bentha | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658765/ | 09:58 |
| diginet | n_bentha, yeah, thanks though | 09:59 |
| n_bentha | ParahSalin__ have you ever seen an organism with a triangular asshole? | 10:00 |
| ParahSailin__ | why do you want to make oligopeptides? | 10:00 |
| diginet | because the spidroin in highly modular, it seems it would be easier merely to "stitch" the modules together using chemical ligation | 10:02 |
| diginet | from what I've read, getting anything to express the native protein in usable quantities is going to be extremely difficult | 10:02 |
| n_bentha | but they did it in bacteria? | 10:03 |
| diginet | sort of | 10:03 |
| n_bentha | what do you mean sort of? | 10:03 |
| diginet | they made a 250 kDa protein, which is about 30% shorter than the real thing | 10:03 |
| ParahSailin__ | what chemical ligation... | 10:03 |
| diginet | ParahSailin__, native chemical ligation? | 10:03 |
| ParahSailin__ | pretty sure that doesnt exist | 10:04 |
| n_bentha | diginet: i thought they were already doing the whole sequence now? | 10:04 |
| diginet | n_bentha, not that I know of | 10:04 |
| n_bentha | ok | 10:04 |
| diginet | ParahSailin__, this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_chemical_ligation | 10:04 |
| ParahSailin__ | dont do that | 10:05 |
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| diginet | what's the matter with it? | 10:05 |
| n_bentha | http://www.mater.upm.es/Directorio/PDI/CU/Llorca_archivos/Silk-Frac.pdf | 10:06 |
| n_bentha | cysteines? | 10:06 |
| diginet | all it requires is a cysteine at the end of hte sequence, considering all my sequences end in alanine, isn't it trivial just to desulfurize the cysteine to alanine? | 10:07 |
| n_bentha | ok there are only 2 cysteines in the sequence, 1 at the start and 1 at the end | 10:07 |
| diginet | the spidroin? I know, but cysteine can be converted to alanine rather easily, which is of course higly prevalent in the sequence | 10:10 |
| n_bentha | Well if you want to, go for it. I guess I'm just skeptical and wouldn't want to bother. | 10:11 |
| n_bentha | Plants are more interesting to me. | 10:11 |
| diginet | I dunno, I guess I feel like once the process is developed, this would be easier | 10:12 |
| diginet | but who knows, if it doesn't work then so be ti | 10:12 |
| diginet | one interesting thing is that catalysing the reactions is as simple as putting it in a microwave over (literally) | 10:14 |
| diginet | it can speed up the process from taking a day to around an hour | 10:14 |
| n_bentha | cool | 10:16 |
| n_bentha | but i guess getting your starting material is the hard part | 10:16 |
| n_bentha | how long of a sequence would you start with? | 10:17 |
| n_bentha | would it be easier to just insert the whole sequence into bacteria instead? | 10:17 |
| diginet | I don't think it would work in bacteria | 10:20 |
| n_bentha | ok. well why not just get the bacteria that the guys in korea inserted a fragment into? | 10:20 |
| n_bentha | u can then use the proteins produced for your ligation? | 10:21 |
| archels | http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl | 10:23 |
| n_bentha | i voted for mind-uploading becuase of the recent advances in the area | 10:24 |
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| archels | me too | 10:29 |
| archels | of course uploading implies immortality, but that's probably not what they meant. | 10:30 |
| eudoxia | ... you would also need to find out what state they are in currently. And figure out their spiking levels, ... | 10:32 |
| eudoxia | somebody should write a bot to spot these conversations and PM the WBE Roadmap to everyone involved | 10:32 |
| kanzure | http://makerfairecambridge.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/diybio-gfp-at-cambridge-mini-maker-faire/ | 10:36 |
| klafka | hey kanzure are there any startupy bioinfo/biotech companies here? or can you give me a list of them | 10:44 |
| klafka | for like future purposes | 10:44 |
| klafka | or is there one maintained somewhere | 10:44 |
| kanzure | that's a long list :| | 10:49 |
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| klafka | wow i need to learn ruby better -_- | 10:58 |
| kanzure | klafka: missing something? | 10:58 |
| klafka | i'm just reading through this source code and i don't know what a lot of stuff means | 10:59 |
| klafka | what is @@ in ruby? prefixing a variable? | 10:59 |
| kanzure | ask me ask me | 10:59 |
| klafka | or @ | 10:59 |
| kanzure | @ is an instance variable | 10:59 |
| klafka | as opposed to a global variable? | 10:59 |
| kanzure | @@ is a class variable shared by all instances of a class | 10:59 |
| klafka | oooh | 10:59 |
| klafka | ok | 11:00 |
| klafka | wow iv'e forgotten so much OO | 11:00 |
| klafka | i wrote some sweet mongo and python and sql last night though | 11:00 |
| klafka | that was nice | 11:00 |
| klafka | <3 python | 11:00 |
| klafka | i'm glad our analytics person does everythign in python too | 11:00 |
| kanzure | i've been writing this all day: | 11:01 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/blob/285b3066a443438b30691be7193e7f7135b9a950/extras/crystal.py | 11:01 |
| delinquentme | klafka, they work in ruby and python? | 11:01 |
| klafka | our engineers use ruby / js / jquery | 11:01 |
| klafka | our analytics uses r / python / sql | 11:01 |
| delinquentme | Goldenrod PP Speech House | 11:02 |
| delinquentme | heheh | 11:02 |
| klafka | is this actually for disassembling pokemon crystal | 11:04 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:04 |
| kanzure | it generates asm that compiles into crystal's rom | 11:04 |
| klafka | LOL | 11:04 |
| klafka | wow i'm slightly terrified | 11:04 |
| kanzure | then you shuold see pokered... | 11:04 |
| klafka | see it's when i see stuff like this i know i'm not a developer :P | 11:04 |
| kanzure | pokered: https://bitbucket.org/kanzure/pokered/raw/b57b31748bfc/main.asm | 11:05 |
| klafka | very cool though | 11:05 |
| kanzure | also it was on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473111 | 11:05 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, you use both bitbucket and github? | 11:06 |
| delinquentme | porque | 11:06 |
| klafka | i use both | 11:06 |
| kanzure | because pokered is hosted primarily on bitbucket | 11:06 |
| kanzure | http://bitbucket.org/iimarckus/pokered | 11:06 |
| delinquentme | ohh its a fork of someone else? | 11:07 |
| klafka | what are your guys thoughts on http://javascriptenlightenment.com/ ? | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | klafka, why 2 repos? | 11:07 |
| kanzure | pokered was started by iimarckus | 11:07 |
| klafka | bitbucket lets you have free private repos | 11:07 |
| kanzure | but i've contributed the past 1100 commits | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | its free | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | im for it | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | thats alot of qork kanzure :D | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | work** | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | you could be playing everquest | 11:07 |
| kanzure | there are two repos because they are different games | 11:07 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: the number one rule of ##hplusroadmap is Always be coding | 11:08 |
| klafka | lol | 11:08 |
| klafka | i should be writing training material | 11:08 |
| klafka | and writing about PROCESSS | 11:08 |
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| delinquentme | klafka, #OnTheClock? | 11:10 |
| kanzure | what is #OnTheClock? | 11:10 |
| kanzure | i don't think that channel exists | 11:10 |
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| delinquentme | ./lookofdissapproval | 11:11 |
| delinquentme | im wiring pots | 11:11 |
| delinquentme | ( or learning to ) | 11:11 |
| klafka1 | haha | 11:11 |
| klafka1 | delinquentme i'm always #OnTheClock | 11:11 |
| klafka1 | a new person in my role starts monday | 11:11 |
| klafka1 | so i have to get all this shit written for all the process i've defined | 11:11 |
| klafka1 | :( | 11:11 |
| klafka1 | ok i do really like anon functions in ruby | 11:12 |
| klafka1 | a lot | 11:12 |
| * klafka1 wishes pythons anonymous functions were a bit better | 11:12 | |
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| audy | klafka1 python has anonymous functions? | 11:15 |
| audy | getouttahere | 11:15 |
| audy | oh you mean lambda? | 11:15 |
| klafka1 | yes | 11:15 |
| klafka1 | lambdas | 11:15 |
| delinquentme | which is the superclass of which | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | lambda < proc | 11:16 |
| eudoxia | ... of the normal function? | 11:16 |
| klafka1 | lambda are anon functions | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | some derp quizzed me on that and told me I was wrong | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | ( in ruby at least ) | 11:16 |
| audy | I have to write a paper for metabolic engineering class | 11:17 |
| delinquentme | OOC is the MO in getting a SV job to just prove how smart you are? | 11:17 |
| klafka1 | OOC ? | 11:17 |
| audy | on how to engineer a bacterium to make X. (balance redox, make sure there isn't too little/much ATP) | 11:17 |
| delinquentme | like I've been hesitant to say much about my hardware hacking and the genomes and shit | 11:17 |
| delinquentme | out of curiosity | 11:17 |
| klafka1 | mm | 11:17 |
| delinquentme | bc i've been turned down for a number of jobs and I cant help but think that I'm missing something | 11:17 |
| klafka1 | my MO was to move to san francisco and have a job that pays me more than 14/hr | 11:17 |
| klafka1 | really? | 11:18 |
| klafka1 | were you qualified for them? | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | its kinda silly | 11:18 |
| klafka1 | did you mention relocation right away? | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | the last one I interviewed for I was totally qualified for | 11:18 |
| klafka1 | personality? | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | it was front end JS and HTML/CSS for a house that does ror | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | was I too nice? | 11:18 |
| klafka1 | idk | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | yeah I mentioned relocation right away | 11:18 |
| klafka1 | don't | 11:19 |
| delinquentme | yeah man u got me | 11:19 |
| delinquentme | oh | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | did you get to the interview stage? | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | i mean i did ok once i got to the interview stage | 11:19 |
| delinquentme | yeah i consistently get interviews | 11:19 |
| delinquentme | lots lol | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | but getting ot that stage was tough for me | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | mm | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | are you just trying to get 'any' decent SV job | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | or are you targetting very specific stuff? | 11:19 |
| klafka1 | like biotech | 11:19 |
| delinquentme | like I've hit a fairly large array | 11:20 |
| delinquentme | I've got one that im super qualified for coming up | 11:20 |
| delinquentme | IDK maybe they're still entrenched in that school system and want to see the piece of paper | 11:20 |
| delinquentme | this ones is @ newrelic working in busdev on rails and APIs | 11:20 |
| klafka1 | ooh do you not have a degree? | 11:21 |
| klafka1 | i thought you did | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | so like I've got the programming and the business exp | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | totes | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | so gotta see whats up with this | 11:21 |
| klafka1 | wait | 11:21 |
| klafka1 | you're doing biz dev | 11:21 |
| klafka1 | are you qualified for a biz dev role? | 11:21 |
| klafka1 | you know biz dev isn't like programming | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | define qualified? | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | here ill show u :D | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | http://newton.newtonsoftware.com/career/JobIntroduction.action?clientId=4028f88b20d6768d0120f7ae45e50365&id=4028f88b2b2edbff012b305cddb107b4&gnewtonResize=http://newton.newtonsoftware.com/career/GnewtonResize.htm&source= | 11:22 |
| klafka1 | oh | 11:22 |
| klafka1 | that's not biz dev | 11:22 |
| delinquentme | RoR Developer - Business Applications | 11:22 |
| klafka1 | heh | 11:22 |
| delinquentme | its some magical place between the two | 11:22 |
| klafka1 | hmm | 11:22 |
| delinquentme | but yeah creative houses ... turning me down *shrugs* IDK | 11:23 |
| delinquentme | interesting situation | 11:23 |
| klafka1 | have you looked into splunk? they seem kind of cool | 11:23 |
| klafka1 | also bloomreach | 11:23 |
| delinquentme | cant say I've interviewd or applied | 11:23 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, but yeah once im out thereeeee | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | GRRRRRRRRRRRR! | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | GON BE AWESHUM | 11:24 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 11:24 |
| klafka1 | well i'd look into those | 11:24 |
| klafka1 | i'm particularly interested in bloomreach | 11:24 |
| klafka1 | seems pretty exciting | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | yeah I've got em marked down | 11:25 |
| klafka1 | you could always apply to genentech as a dev :P | 11:25 |
| delinquentme | you been hitting any network events there? | 11:25 |
| klafka1 | i actually haven't so much | 11:25 |
| klafka1 | because i commute a lot and i've sort of just been working non-stop | 11:25 |
| klafka1 | as we hire more people and i eventually become less fully customer facing hopefully htat will get better | 11:26 |
| klafka1 | though it won't soon since i'm about to start doing phone support =\ | 11:26 |
| delinquentme | I've been wondering if they're checking my twitter to kind of gauge my interests .... | 11:26 |
| delinquentme | too tin foil hat? | 11:26 |
| klafka1 | idk i completely dissociated myself from my internet presence | 11:27 |
| klafka1 | when i applied | 11:27 |
| delinquentme | you just didnt mention it? or did you take down your FB? | 11:27 |
| delinquentme | maybe thats what I should do :D | 11:27 |
| klafka1 | i didn't use anything w/ klafka | 11:27 |
| klafka1 | and i'm not really findable outside of that | 11:27 |
| delinquentme | ahh | 11:27 |
| delinquentme | my github is delinquentme | 11:28 |
| delinquentme | oh well | 11:28 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: nobody looks me up before they start paying me | 11:28 |
| kanzure | and i'm on various fbi watchlists | 11:28 |
| kanzure | .. or something | 11:29 |
| delinquentme | :P lucky | 11:29 |
| delinquentme | IDK | 11:29 |
| delinquentme | maybe i've been too positive and like | 11:29 |
| delinquentme | ass kissey | 11:29 |
| delinquentme | silly interview process | 11:30 |
| eudoxia | how do FBI watchlists work anyways | 11:30 |
| eudoxia | do they send you a letter telling you you're now part of a watchlist or what | 11:30 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: you can send a FOIA request | 11:31 |
| kanzure | to see what info they have on you | 11:31 |
| eudoxia | that is potentially very scary to read | 11:34 |
| delinquentme | OK all I need to reboot as im getting weirdness going on with my ttyACM0 port .. thing | 11:39 |
| delinquentme | connection UBS | 11:39 |
| delinquentme | hole | 11:39 |
| delinquentme | BRB! | 11:39 |
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| delinquentme | sick | 11:43 |
| delinquentme | http://imgur.com/gallery/BkR3V | 11:43 |
| delinquentme | also: | 11:43 |
| delinquentme | http://imgur.com/gallery/ro1nB | 11:43 |
| klafka1 | lol | 11:44 |
| klafka1 | man have you heard of dev boot camp? | 11:44 |
| _F7_ | My sister is doing a research paper on cryogenics | 11:45 |
| _F7_ | Her teacher is pushing for her to do a speculative analysis, but she's not sure how to project | 11:45 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, isnt that where you move to NY | 11:45 |
| delinquentme | and like its a shitty deal with marketing? | 11:45 |
| klafka1 | it's like a 10 week RoR course in san francisco | 11:46 |
| klafka1 | seems weird | 11:46 |
| _F7_ | I shot her transmetropolitan issue #8 and some alcor material | 11:46 |
| klafka1 | http://devbootcamp.com/ | 11:46 |
| klafka1 | i'm kind of curious but also not | 11:47 |
| klafka1 | i mean definitely not enough to do it | 11:47 |
| delinquentme | ohh ici ci | 11:47 |
| kanzure | brownies was thinking about doing one (with me possibly) | 11:47 |
| _F7_ | Any ideas, y'all? | 11:47 |
| kanzure | i mean, running a devbootcamp | 11:47 |
| kanzure | not attending | 11:47 |
| delinquentme | ZOMG 9500! | 11:48 |
| delinquentme | WHUT DEAL | 11:48 |
| delinquentme | ehh | 11:48 |
| _F7_ | I sent her the paper in kanzure's stash about the role of nanotech in a thawing situation | 11:48 |
| klafka1 | oh you found what it cost | 11:48 |
| klafka1 | damn 9500 that's like a quarter at a private university | 11:48 |
| delinquentme | thats with all the discounts | 11:48 |
| delinquentme | including being a black female | 11:48 |
| klafka1 | cool | 11:48 |
| delinquentme | =/ | 11:48 |
| klafka1 | you should guestlist me kanzure if you do it | 11:48 |
| klafka1 | :P | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | ill do a cameo | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | show you how to blow up LEDs | 11:49 |
| kanzure | usually you don't have to pay if you get hired | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | << total pro @ that | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | not a bad business model | 11:49 |
| klafka1 | lol | 11:50 |
| klafka1 | you can put line breaks anywhere pretty much in ruby right? | 11:50 |
| klafka1 | for readability | 11:50 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, correct | 11:50 |
| delinquentme | =begin =end is your block comments as well :D | 11:50 |
| kanzure | lesson one.... always be coding | 11:51 |
| klafka1 | like | 11:51 |
| kanzure | lesson two.. never not be coding | 11:51 |
| klafka1 | input.each_line{|line| /(.*?)\W+->\W+(.*?)}/.match(line) | 11:51 |
| klafka1 | => recommender.order_items.add_set(1,[2]) | 11:51 |
| klafka1 | } | 11:51 |
| klafka1 | we cool? | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | also! 'asdf,asdf'[/regex/] | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | yeah you can tab the shit out of that | 11:51 |
| kanzure | klafka1: if it hates that then add a \ to the end of the previous line | 11:51 |
| brownies | hilarious | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | ive been using the SH!T out of that regex command | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | or if you're in HAML a | | 11:52 |
| delinquentme | brownies, do tell | 11:52 |
| brownies | shit, i'll give you a 10 week ruby course *right now* | 11:52 |
| klafka1 | umm i'm confused is that how you use capture groups in ruby? | 11:52 |
| brownies | read the ruby source code, send me $10000, thanks. | 11:53 |
| klafka1 | wow | 11:55 |
| klafka1 | 'Railsbridge is free if you bring a woman- done on various weekends.' | 11:55 |
| klafka1 | wtf | 11:55 |
| kanzure | brownies: you're an inspiration to us all | 11:55 |
| klafka1 | hella misogyn | 11:55 |
| klafka1 | misogyny | 11:55 |
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| klafka1 | man i wish comcast didn't suck terribly | 11:56 |
| klafka1 | or i had better options | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | lololol klafka1 link on that? | 11:56 |
| klafka1 | it's in an email thread via that ruby meetup | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | OOO TIL that transmission on ubuntu automatically defaults to encrypting torrents | 11:56 |
| klafka1 | wait delinquentme explain capturing in ruby regex | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | thats really weird like... there were no shortage of cute girls while i was there | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, "\n\r\t Journal Du Awesomeness\n\t\r\r\r\r\r\rt\"[/[\n\t\r]+/] | 11:58 |
| delinquentme | that will allow you to regex select within that string | 11:58 |
| kanzure | klafka1: i don't think he knows about capture groups in regular expression | 11:58 |
| kanzure | *expressions | 11:58 |
| klafka1 | oh | 11:58 |
| klafka1 | -_- | 11:58 |
| klafka1 | well kanzure tlel me -_ is that ruby code i pasted syntactically incorrect? | 11:58 |
| delinquentme | O_o | 11:59 |
| klafka1 | because i'm getting an error recommendify_example.rb:27: syntax error, unexpected tASSOC, expecting '}' | 11:59 |
| klafka1 | => recommender.order_items.add_set(1,[2]) | 11:59 |
| klafka1 | wth | 11:59 |
| kanzure | well, irst, i don't know about your regex syntax- what's the dangling } | 11:59 |
| klafka1 | does that means | 11:59 |
| kanzure | second, why do you have a => here? | 11:59 |
| klafka1 | idk i was looking at http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Regexp.html | 11:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?184,66646,112716 re photopolymers for bluray curing | 12:00 |
| kanzure | klafka1: all of the #=> is comments ;P | 12:01 |
| kanzure | => is used in hash mappings | 12:01 |
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| kanzure | what is the final structure of output that you are expecting | 12:01 |
| brownies | kanzure: inspiration costs extra | 12:02 |
| kanzure | brownies: i only have $25,000 will you accept this? | 12:02 |
| klafka1 | oooh | 12:02 |
| brownies | fine, but it better not be in bitcoin | 12:02 |
| kanzure | it's in kanzurecoin | 12:02 |
| kanzure | it's even better than bitcoin | 12:02 |
| klafka1 | the output is i want to capture those two groups /(.*?)\W+->\W+(.*?)}/.match(line) and add the two groups to this instance like recommender.order_items.add_set(r[0],r[1]) | 12:03 |
| kanzure | match_group = /(.*?)\W+->\W+(.*?)}/.match(line); | 12:03 |
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| kanzure | recommender.order_items.add_set(match_group[0],match_group[1]) | 12:03 |
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| kanzure | input.each_line{|line| match_group = /(.*?)\W+->\W+(.*?)}/.match(line); recommender.order_items.add_set(match_group[0],match_group[1]) } | 12:04 |
| klafka1 | can i do that within the context of the code block? | 12:04 |
| kanzure | add_set probably wants a Set object | 12:04 |
| kanzure | sure.. you can do multiple lines too | 12:04 |
| klafka1 | would it be like | 12:04 |
| klafka1 | input.each_line{|line| r = /(.*?)\W+->\W+(.*?)}/.match(line); | 12:04 |
| klafka1 | recommender.order_items.add_set(r[0],r[1]) | 12:04 |
| klafka1 | } | 12:04 |
| kanzure | yes that should work | 12:04 |
| klafka1 | ok cool | 12:05 |
| kanzure | it could even be like: input.each_line do |line|\n puts "OH SHIT";\n puts "CRAP";\nend | 12:05 |
| kanzure | what the heck is each_line? why not just lines.each do |line| ... end | 12:05 |
| kanzure | personally i prefer to use {|x|..} syntax when it's small enough to be on one line | 12:05 |
| kanzure | and "do |x| .. end" syntax for multi-line things, but it doesn't really matter | 12:06 |
| klafka1 | idk | 12:06 |
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| klafka1 | i just found it via googling | 12:06 |
| klafka1 | also wth, if i install a gem shouldn't it just work by going require foo in my script ? | 12:06 |
| kanzure | btw, i know perfromance is probably not a big issue here, but you might consider defining /(.*?)\W+->\W+(.*?)}/ outside of the loop | 12:07 |
| kanzure | *performance | 12:07 |
| klafka1 | mmm | 12:07 |
| klafka1 | to pre-compile the regex | 12:07 |
| klafka1 | got it | 12:07 |
| kanzure | i'm sure it compiles it just once either way.. | 12:08 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/thesprouts/nurbs/blob/master/NurbsSurface.java | 12:48 |
| kanzure | alec again? | 12:48 |
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| kanzure | not sure if these guys are useful.. something about writing cam algorithms | 12:59 |
| kanzure | http://www.freesteel.co.uk/wpblog/faq/ | 12:59 |
| kanzure | well at least they do testing | 13:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.freesteel.co.uk/wpblog/2011/11/unit-testing-cam-algorithms-what-could-that-be-about/ | 13:01 |
| ParahSailin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uros seasteading, oldschool | 13:03 |
| kanzure | huh there's a scraperwiki blog.. http://blog.scraperwiki.com/ | 13:04 |
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| delinquentme_ | MOAR WORXXX | 13:17 |
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| audy | scumbag springerlink uses a cookie to determine whether or not to put up a paywall so after you've logged in to your university VPN you still can't download the article | 13:38 |
| audy | without using a privacy window | 13:39 |
| kanzure | your university might use something called ezproxy | 13:40 |
| kanzure | which university? | 13:40 |
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| audy | kanzure UF | 13:41 |
| kanzure | ufl.edu? | 13:41 |
| audy | It's not ezproxy | 13:42 |
| audy | kanzure yep | 13:42 |
| audy | I believe they're checking my IP | 13:42 |
| audy | for *.ufl.edu | 13:42 |
| kanzure | wrong | 13:42 |
| kanzure | audy: login here http://lp.hscl.ufl.edu/login | 13:42 |
| kanzure | and enjoy | 13:43 |
| audy | kanzure thanks. I'm not having a problem getting articles. It's just a minor nuisance | 13:43 |
| kanzure | you should try this if you've never used it | 13:43 |
| kanzure | btw, "wrong" was to "it's not ezproxy"- i know vpn is not ezproxy- but your university definitely seems to have it there^ | 13:44 |
| Cat4D | who is at ufl??? | 13:53 |
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| Cat4D | fuk, go over to surflab and chase down jorg peters and the lab kids | 13:54 |
| Cat4D | i'll cover cost of snack on way back | 13:55 |
| kanzure | that's a pretty solid deal | 13:55 |
| Cat4D | http://cise.ufl.edu/research/SurfLab/info.shtml | 13:55 |
| Cat4D | whois *!*@*!*.ufl.edu | 13:56 |
| Cat4D | ugh | 13:56 |
| Cat4D | here, bring a picture of lava with you, so they comprehend the basics: http://lavalee.smugmug.com or http://royalgardens.us | 13:57 |
| Cat4D | woops royalgardens sensors have no uplink, bad url | 13:58 |
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| Cat4D | who wants to visualize 3 exobyte of volcano data? ;) | 14:20 |
| Cat4D | 1mm surface over 10 miles | 14:20 |
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| klafka1 | ooooh | 14:23 |
| klafka1 | that sounds pretty fun | 14:23 |
| klafka1 | is it like | 14:23 |
| klafka1 | lidar? | 14:23 |
| klafka1 | or what kind of data is it? | 14:23 |
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| Cat4D | no, my volumetric is an advanced field effect system, the surface model is a composite, but we are going to re-deploy with consumer laser pointers and cell fones | 14:25 |
| Cat4D | which is why this mathematical extrapolation is such a problem | 14:25 |
| Cat4D | I was fedex-ing a case of hard drives a day | 14:26 |
| klafka1 | hahah nice | 14:28 |
| Cat4D | Ive always used a poly spline fitting method, which handles both volumetric and surface (air=volume) bounds | 14:28 |
| Cat4D | but this is the opposite of their technique for the gpu | 14:28 |
| Cat4D | http://cise.ufl.edu/research/surflab/bview | 14:28 |
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| klafka1 | what is a field effect system? | 14:28 |
| klafka1 | 403 | 14:29 |
| Cat4D | and im concerned that the high accuracy technique using these spherical coordinate poly nurbs cant get passed to parallel without flattening them | 14:29 |
| Cat4D | http://cise.ufl.edu/research/SurfLab/bview/ | 14:30 |
| Cat4D | i can see why their csie got shut down... | 14:30 |
| Cat4D | ok | 14:32 |
| Cat4D | audy | 14:32 |
| Cat4D | go find them and send them to ITO Hilo | 14:32 |
| Cat4D | (ufl cise and jorg-peters) | 14:33 |
| klafka1 | nice | 14:33 |
| klafka1 | well fedexing hdds is still the fastest if lowest latency way to transfer large amts of data | 14:33 |
| Cat4D | 400x | 14:33 |
| kanzure | it would be fun to setup a molten-lava-resistant oc192 link through a volcano | 14:34 |
| Cat4D | i've got conduit 60ft under the lava | 14:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | i'd have just used radio | 14:35 |
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| Cat4D | was supposed to build a fiber circuit through to the i2/southern-cross, but hawaii's organized crime unions, called "rico" got in the way | 14:35 |
| ParahSailin | pigeon sd is faster | 14:35 |
| Cat4D | kats, the 3gbit horns work, but in the gas and ocean wind environment they are flakey, using 24ghz too | 14:35 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 14:36 | |
| Cat4D | ParahSailin: is the full-size carrier still overpriced? | 14:36 |
| Cat4D | but then satellite dishes look pretty curled up like flowers when the lava comes | 14:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | heh | 14:37 |
| Cat4D | http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2012/03/04/video-jack-thompson-returns-to-see-home-destroyed-by-lava/ | 14:38 |
| Cat4D | last month | 14:38 |
| Cat4D | my lab is 100ft under new flows, two blocks up from there | 14:39 |
| klafka1 | damn | 14:39 |
| klafka1 | that's pretty crazy | 14:39 |
| Cat4D | very pretty | 14:40 |
| Cat4D | http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/cams/panorama.php?cam=R2cam | 14:40 |
| Cat4D | im a little ways above that usgs cam right now | 14:41 |
| klafka1 | woah | 14:42 |
| klafka1 | very pretty | 14:42 |
| Cat4D | audy you are sure you can get to them, right? | 14:42 |
| klafka1 | what are you doing with your volcano surface data? like what's your objective? flow modeling? | 14:43 |
| Cat4D | all | 14:43 |
| Cat4D | mine is volumetric | 14:43 |
| Cat4D | but the surface (range scanners, etc) are higly optimized | 14:43 |
| Cat4D | we normally do archaeological sites, but kilauea project is intended to demosntrate use of conventional tools | 14:44 |
| Cat4D | walmart lazer pointer and cell fone | 14:44 |
| klafka1 | mm I see | 14:44 |
| Cat4D | to do mass scale at extreme resolution | 14:44 |
| Cat4D | so now its proving that consumer devices can match or beat our research equipment | 14:44 |
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| klafka1 | ah got it | 14:45 |
| Cat4D | surface color and composition == chemistry, flow speed, etc | 14:45 |
| Cat4D | even have purple lava | 14:45 |
| klafka1 | i see | 14:46 |
| klafka1 | interesting | 14:46 |
| Cat4D | its blue when it cools | 14:46 |
| klafka1 | like navy ? | 14:46 |
| Cat4D | no, usn keeps trying to kill me | 14:46 |
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| Cat4D | they also keep jamming my sensor systems... even sent the f22 to isolate and zap the bots once | 14:48 |
| Cat4D | their ambient-awareness and my field-effect systems dont get along | 14:48 |
| Cat4D | (mine cancles their noise) | 14:48 |
| klafka1 | ahahaha crazy | 14:49 |
| Cat4D | so their system automatically fries mine | 14:49 |
| klafka1 | that's kind of scary the ability to fry hardware our planes have | 14:49 |
| Cat4D | which, ammusingly, is a plasma core for the signal generator, so it intrinsicly resets | 14:49 |
| Cat4D | not the plane | 14:49 |
| Cat4D | the us military / nato keep a constant field around the planet | 14:49 |
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| Cat4D | can direct all energy to any point for (icbm intercept, etc) signal generation | 14:50 |
| kanzure | ... | 14:50 |
| Cat4D | and as an effect, can see every beeping device, and every particle that moves | 14:50 |
| klafka1 | um | 14:50 |
| kanzure | ... | 14:50 |
| Cat4D | build your TV's crt beam director using a field modulator | 14:51 |
| Cat4D | and zap solidworks | 14:51 |
| yashgaroth | this got into haarp pretty quick | 14:53 |
| Cat4D | oh, field-effect similar to "eddy current" | 14:55 |
| Cat4D | aka metal fracture signal differentials | 14:56 |
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| strangewarp | Oh, that sucks | 15:06 |
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| strangewarp | I'm sorry, but it's depressing that people should be so interesting, and then after 30 minutes they start talking about UFOs or military energy fields | 15:10 |
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| Cat4D | unfortionate they zapped me first | 15:11 |
| Cat4D | cheaters | 15:12 |
| * Cat4D pets volcano | 15:12 | |
| Cat4D | i think catmull running disney right now has a major ethics issue... where is the last 3 decades of spline math? | 15:15 |
| kanzure | you think spline math stagnation is intentional? | 15:16 |
| Cat4D | ? | 15:18 |
| Cat4D | triangles in gpus? | 15:18 |
| ParahSailin | anyone have otr set up in irc? i wanna test out my settings | 15:18 |
| Cat4D | you think sgi needs get beat down... | 15:23 |
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| kanzure | http://fabbaloo.com/blog/2012/4/17/on-demand-3d-printed-robots.html | 15:42 |
| kanzure | "Researchers hope to create a platform that would allow an individual to identify a household problem that needs assistance; then head to a local printing store to select a blueprint, from a library of robotic designs; and then customize an easy-to-use robotic device that could solve the problem." | 15:43 |
| kanzure | hrm.. | 15:43 |
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| Urchin | one of the supposed points of singularity is that everything would be designed and built for the task at hand | 16:32 |
| strangewarp | false | 16:33 |
| strangewarp | the point is that even technology-development processes with lossy momentum, with people going off into diversions and whatnot, would become self-sustaining. | 16:34 |
| Urchin | it's a side point | 16:35 |
| Urchin | just as the steel singularity didn't turn out to have a single point | 16:36 |
| joshcryer | what do you guys think of these: http://www.coastal.com/glasses/frames/lucky-stewart-stonewash-olive/prod22262.html?rsView=1&ga=F|M|K | 16:40 |
| strangewarp | "steel singularity"? | 16:42 |
| strangewarp | Are we calling arbitrary technology developments singularities again | 16:42 |
| strangewarp | joshcryer: Good I guess? Though full-framed glasses don't go with my face so well | 16:44 |
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| Urchin | not arbitrary, the production of steel historically followed the pattern of the hypothesized technological singularity we're expecting | 17:07 |
| Urchin | it happened that in 1930s more steel was produced than in the entire history up to that point, if you failed to notice that fundamental changes happened on how civilization works... | 17:08 |
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| * katsmeow-afk bites her tongue | 17:13 | |
| strangewarp | Urchin: Wrong. The utility of steel had diminishing returns after its initial development. So while its utility increased after its initial development, the increase was linear. | 17:13 |
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| strangewarp | You're also claiming "more steel in the 1930s than ever existed" denotes a singularity, when it really means.. steel didn't exist before the 1930s. | 17:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's a conditioal statement anyhow, so if you did NOT fail to notice the changes, then the production did NOT follow the pattern | 17:15 |
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| strangewarp | If you're going to insist on calling that sort of thing a singularity, at least call it a "soft singularity" or something | 17:17 |
| strangewarp | IMO it's entirely silly | 17:17 |
| kanzure | "singularity" in non-graph contexts is supposed to refer to "zoom" from exponential accelerating returns | 17:18 |
| kanzure | *to the "zoom" | 17:18 |
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| kanzure | roksprok: hi | 17:24 |
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| katsmeow-afk | delinquentme_, i answered your question in the other channel, after you pinged out | 17:35 |
| delinquentme_ | about how to match PWM to the capable movement speed of the actuator? | 17:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | no, about how you got bad readings from an adc and pot | 17:36 |
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| diginet | I object to the word singularity if for no other reason than the bastardization of the word itself, ala "organic" | 18:09 |
| roksprok | kanzure: hi | 18:16 |
| kanzure | roksprok: how goes the protocols? | 18:16 |
| roksprok | a bit slow....but its progressing | 18:17 |
| roksprok | and i'm learning a lot | 18:17 |
| roksprok | so....i hope this doesn't seem presumptuous of me.... | 18:18 |
| roksprok | but i have been thinking abit about your synthesis machine | 18:18 |
| roksprok | and i was wondering if you would be open to a slight 'pivot' to a gene synthesis machine | 18:18 |
| roksprok | so i am thinking of several 'lab-on-a-chips' | 18:19 |
| roksprok | oligo synthesis, gibson assembly, pcr, various ligating | 18:19 |
| roksprok | loaded into a device connected to a usb port on any old computer | 18:20 |
| roksprok | with a little app that takes a sequence of dna or a plasmid map and says '3 oligo chips, 2 pcr, and golden gate assembly' | 18:20 |
| roksprok | which are then retrieved from the fridge in the case of those requiring enzymes | 18:21 |
| roksprok | and loaded into the machine | 18:21 |
| roksprok | that would be able to raise the temperature as needed, fire the control valves, and such | 18:21 |
| kanzure | what is the pivot? | 18:21 |
| roksprok | from oligo synthesis to gene synthesis....a 'PlasmidPrinter' if you will | 18:22 |
| roksprok | http://blog.ginkgobioworks.com/2012/01/14/commercial-gene-synthesis/ | 18:23 |
| roksprok | ginkgo bioworks complaining about commercial gene synthesis | 18:23 |
| roksprok | http://j5.jbei.org/index.php/Main_Page program that spits out the oligos to synthesis and steps towards creating the plasmid | 18:24 |
| roksprok | also for the diy market, i think a printer-like all in one device would be very compelling | 18:25 |
| roksprok | and help foster a community like that which exists for avrs or the arduino or rasberrypi | 18:25 |
| roksprok | and kind of exists for biobricks | 18:25 |
| kanzure | yeah, that's the general plan for sure | 18:26 |
| kanzure | oligo synthesis isn't considered gene synthesis, so you have to assemble shorter oligos into longer and longer fragments | 18:26 |
| roksprok | also as a 'transhumanism-aid' it would compress the time from specification to production | 18:26 |
| roksprok | yes that would be the pivot | 18:26 |
| roksprok | from just oligos that are then stiched together using various methods | 18:27 |
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| roksprok | to gene synthesis....you no longer have to worry 'is gibson assembly good? what about golden gate? | 18:27 |
| kanzure | yeah we've been thinking about oligo ligation | 18:28 |
| kanzure | there are a few methods in the literature for short oligo ligation | 18:28 |
| kanzure | but they will require tweaking before they actually work | 18:28 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/Gene%20synthesis%20by%20assembly%20of%20short%20oligonucleotides%20-%20Horspool%20thesis%20-%202009.pdf | 18:28 |
| roksprok | didn't jcvi do the tweaking? | 18:28 |
| kanzure | jcvi created gibson assembly | 18:28 |
| roksprok | they had a what....100kb construct? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | they don't do short oligo ligation | 18:29 |
| roksprok | but to assemble stuff for gibson assembly don't you have to fist do short ligation? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | yes, you synthesize 60-100mers and combine them with pcr extension | 18:29 |
| kanzure | but extension pcr is not usable for short oligo ligation | 18:30 |
| kanzure | by short i mean <10 bp | 18:30 |
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| roksprok | why not chemical synthesis? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | yes, you can do chemical synthesis of short oligos | 18:31 |
| roksprok | doesn't that get you up to 200bp? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | not really | 18:31 |
| roksprok | or is that 'if you do it 100 times' | 18:31 |
| kanzure | chemical synthesis requires a lot of tweaking to get up to 200 bp without errors | 18:31 |
| roksprok | so its better to do short oligo ligation of <10bp? | 18:33 |
| kanzure | that will be more reliable, yes | 18:33 |
| kanzure | or the other idea is to just store a few thousand pre-synthesized <10mers | 18:33 |
| kanzure | and then combine those. | 18:34 |
| roksprok | is it reasonable to combine ligation methods so you can get up to the kilobp range? | 18:34 |
| roksprok | by combine do they sequentially using the same machine | 18:35 |
| roksprok | do them | 18:35 |
| kanzure | that's an open question, but yes that's the idea | 18:35 |
| roksprok | is that needed? like looking at ginkgobioworks.com it seems like they are working very hard to make things that are not terribly impressive | 18:36 |
| kanzure | is what needed? ligation? yes.. | 18:37 |
| roksprok | what does synthetic biology need to get it to the stage where it is common place to engineer a new organism | 18:38 |
| kanzure | oh, btw, by "combine those" i meant combine(ligate) the <10mers | 18:38 |
| kanzure | roksprok: cheap genome synthesis | 18:38 |
| yashgaroth | 'new' as in total genome synthesis? | 18:38 |
| kanzure | right now the largest cost is synthesis | 18:39 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: inserting multiple genes to make something pretty unrecognizable | 18:39 |
| kanzure | bringing it down to $1/genome is doable but not with existing synthesizers | 18:39 |
| kanzure | other organisms routinely synthesize genomes for way less than $1/genome | 18:40 |
| yashgaroth | erm multiple genes happens pretty regularly | 18:40 |
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| yashgaroth | other organisms copy genomes, but yes | 18:40 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: but isn't it always 'e coli. expressing a protein or two'? | 18:42 |
| yashgaroth | usually, but certainly not always | 18:42 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure some people have transplanted entire metabolic pathways | 18:42 |
| roksprok | diginet is planning on it right? | 18:43 |
| yashgaroth | no he's pretty much just expressing a protein or two | 18:43 |
| roksprok | is it unreasonable to think of...say...adding engineered cells to the immune system? | 18:44 |
| roksprok | or....what has to happen before that is not unreasonable | 18:44 |
| yashgaroth | dendreon does that already | 18:44 |
| kanzure | lots of testing | 18:45 |
| yashgaroth | protocols for hematopoietic cell extraction and transplantation are pretty established | 18:46 |
| yashgaroth | adding DNA to them is less established but still done | 18:46 |
| roksprok | so...is it more a policy obstacle then? | 18:47 |
| yashgaroth | mostly, yes | 18:47 |
| roksprok | as to why this is only an option for one type of prostate cancer as opposed to having a library of ways to genetically engineer them? | 18:47 |
| yashgaroth | cost of r&d | 18:48 |
| roksprok | would cheap on demand genome synthesis bring it down enough to where it was an option? | 18:48 |
| roksprok | or is it more the manpower / clinical trials cost | 18:49 |
| yashgaroth | mmm you're not gonna be using genome synthesis for modifying immune cells | 18:49 |
| yashgaroth | clinical trials cost a billion dollars | 18:49 |
| kanzure | annd full genome synthesis is going to run you <$100 mil | 18:50 |
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| roksprok | so what do you think is needed for transhumanism to win | 18:51 |
| AdrianG | nothing | 18:51 |
| kanzure | high-resolution transcranial brain stimulation | 18:51 |
| kanzure | cheap genome synthesis | 18:51 |
| yashgaroth | money, also more money | 18:51 |
| yashgaroth | ooh a computational solution to the protein folding problem | 18:52 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: there is already a lot of money....i mean you could argue that all pharma companies are working towards curing disease/aging | 18:52 |
| AdrianG | lol FDA will never approve aging to be considered a disease | 18:52 |
| yashgaroth | diseases maybe, not really aging...at least not explicitly | 18:52 |
| AdrianG | hopefully pharma corps are smart enough to medicalize every symptom of aging | 18:52 |
| kanzure | the current pharma paradigm for "curing diseases" is all broken anyway | 18:52 |
| yashgaroth | any sort of enhancement technology won't really pass the FDA at this point | 18:52 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: do you have better suggestions | 18:52 |
| AdrianG | yashgaroth: it will simply be marketed for "diseases" | 18:53 |
| AdrianG | and rx'd off label, like modafinil | 18:53 |
| AdrianG | and aricept, and tons of other meds | 18:53 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: yeah, in many cases if you ignore patents you can make more treatments | 18:53 |
| yashgaroth | aye, but there's a reason biopharma costs hundreds of thousands of $ a year | 18:54 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: so are you pretty doubtful of the 'we will live for 1000 years' | 18:54 |
| yashgaroth | no I'm hopeful | 18:54 |
| AdrianG | we wont live for 1000 years chillax | 18:54 |
| yashgaroth | but with the current funding and regulatory system, it won't be us living that long | 18:54 |
| AdrianG | its not the regulatory system | 18:54 |
| AdrianG | we dont have the sciecne. | 18:54 |
| kanzure | i don't think you should assume a company will be the one to develop longevity-related technologies | 18:54 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: that's not entirely true.. we do have the science | 18:54 |
| AdrianG | no we dont | 18:55 |
| kanzure | haha | 18:55 |
| yashgaroth | the regulatory system is absurdly overzealous against possible harm | 18:55 |
| AdrianG | we are barely scratching the surface | 18:55 |
| AdrianG | for fucks sakes, we dont even know what most of trace amines do | 18:55 |
| AdrianG | and you are saying we know how to reverse aging of the brain | 18:55 |
| kanzure | are you saying this because you think my knowledge of longevity research is insufficient? | 18:55 |
| AdrianG | its not your knowledge. | 18:55 |
| kanzure | "reverse aging" isn't really the same as longevity | 18:55 |
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| AdrianG | it is close enough. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | not really | 18:56 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: aren't places like russia and china less strict? | 18:56 |
| kanzure | two different things there | 18:56 |
| yashgaroth | they are, but their science is shit | 18:56 |
| AdrianG | we will not be able to improve longevity of the nervous system to 1000 years. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | roksprok: there are many countries where you can just be left alone | 18:56 |
| AdrianG | #1) we dont know how to treat alzheimers/parkinsons | 18:56 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: there's stopping aging, and reversing aging, and other important factors | 18:56 |
| kanzure | who cares about alzheimer's/parkinsons.. | 18:56 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: cancer, alzheimers, parkinsons | 18:56 |
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| AdrianG | that's the roadblock for any longevity strategy | 18:56 |
| kanzure | not really, there are other issues at play | 18:57 |
| AdrianG | yes, there are many others, those are jsut the most obviou sones | 18:57 |
| kanzure | i agree that diseases are terrible and need to be fixed | 18:57 |
| AdrianG | given enough time, everyone will get cancers | 18:57 |
| AdrianG | and parkinsons | 18:57 |
| AdrianG | not sure about alzheimers, probably that as well | 18:57 |
| kanzure | are you a researcher? | 18:57 |
| AdrianG | wat | 18:58 |
| kanzure | read everything here a few times http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ before you shit all over me | 18:58 |
| kanzure | damn | 18:58 |
| AdrianG | ok? | 18:58 |
| kanzure | you think this is all made up ? | 18:58 |
| AdrianG | you are just overly optimistic. | 18:58 |
| AdrianG | thats all. | 18:58 |
| AdrianG | it will happen, with time | 18:59 |
| kanzure | and you'll die to lethargy | 18:59 |
| AdrianG | i dont think we have enough understanding yet | 18:59 |
| kanzure | i think you don't have enough understanding | 18:59 |
| kanzure | i suspect. | 18:59 |
| roksprok | so kanzure does that mean that you agree with yashgaroth that it is a policy/regulation/'its really hard to commercialize stuff' problem? | 18:59 |
| AdrianG | idk why are you think that ad hominems change anything | 18:59 |
| kanzure | haha wait, you're already giving me an ad hominem man | 19:00 |
| AdrianG | and what is that? | 19:00 |
| AdrianG | a bunch of studies? | 19:00 |
| diginet | senescense is not a problem you "fix" just by some miralce drug | 19:00 |
| kanzure | roksprok: longevity? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | diginet: nobody said it was | 19:00 |
| diginet | well, AdrianG seems to be seriously underestimating the difficulty | 19:00 |
| roksprok | kanzure: longevity/effective treatments | 19:00 |
| AdrianG | i underestimate the difficulty? | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | it's not just that, the science is lacking as well roksprok | 19:01 |
| AdrianG | so its much worse than i think? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | roksprok: you can't get funding for longevity in general; but there are engineering projects that you can complete that would be very useful | 19:01 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: diginet is just overly opinionated and a technophobe | 19:01 |
| diginet | I'm not a technophobe, I'm skeptical of hype and handwaving | 19:02 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: but yes, it's a bunch of research that you should consider and experimentally test | 19:02 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: you shouldn't just assume it doesn't exist | 19:02 |
| kanzure | nobody is promising you magic, just that "under these conditions, hey look, you have stem cell niche renewal hooray" | 19:02 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: i am well of aware the research. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | roksprok: in the case of diseases, i'd say patents are a huge and costly hurdle | 19:03 |
| kanzure | (plus FDA approval on top of that) | 19:04 |
| diginet | I guess I don't see how one solves the biological senescense of cells, considering the only way that has ever happened is by them becoming cancerous, not to mention mechanical degradation | 19:04 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: what is the chance of us, AdrianG and kanzure, surviving to 1000 years old, at the present time? | 19:05 |
| kanzure | diginet: most cells in your body die | 19:05 |
| kanzure | diginet: this is normal and to be expected | 19:05 |
| diginet | I'm aware of that | 19:05 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: chance based on what ?? | 19:05 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: current pace of research | 19:05 |
| kanzure | diginet: ok. so the actual senesence of those cells doesn't really matter | 19:05 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: you could do some maths on a tool i helped develop... http://theuncertainfuture.com/ | 19:05 |
| diginet | sure, but the ones which don't die and get replaced are kind of important | 19:05 |
| kanzure | it will show you probabilistic answers to your questions | 19:05 |
| kanzure | diginet: do you remember aubrey's plan? "replace all your bone marrow every 10 years" | 19:06 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: is it an enabling technologies problem (like faster quicker gene synthesis and sequencing and higher resolution imaging and protein folding predication) or a 'we need to characterize these 20000 proteins better' | 19:06 |
| kanzure | roksprok: there are tons of technologies that can help with individual research projects | 19:06 |
| yashgaroth | protein folding would solve 90% of biology | 19:06 |
| AdrianG | yashgaroth: its a hard problem to solve | 19:06 |
| diginet | and that's not a problem which can be "solved" | 19:07 |
| yashgaroth | who said it'd be easy | 19:07 |
| diginet | I didn't | 19:07 |
| diginet | err | 19:07 |
| diginet | no one | 19:07 |
| kanzure | i suspect that none of you are qualified to comment since you haven't written any protein folding algorithms | 19:07 |
| diginet | I'm just saying | 19:07 |
| AdrianG | diginet: are you saying it is not solvable in principle? | 19:07 |
| yashgaroth | hey maybe physics will do something useful and figure it out | 19:08 |
| diginet | I don't have to have: protein folding is like the travelling salesmen problem, it can't be solved efficienctly on a turing machine | 19:08 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: there's some handy machine learning tricks that could be applied, dunno how much that has been mined | 19:08 |
| diginet | I mean, you can use heuristics to get there faster, but there's no silver bullet | 19:08 |
| yashgaroth | I don't care if it's efficient as long as it works | 19:08 |
| kanzure | yeah who cares if it's a silver bullet | 19:08 |
| diginet | I'm talking billion times the age of the universe long | 19:08 |
| kanzure | have you run the algorithms and shown this ? | 19:09 |
| AdrianG | diginet: so need we just need to get quantum computer running | 19:09 |
| kanzure | quantum computing would be nice, but you shouldn't assume its general availability | 19:09 |
| diginet | AdrianG, quantum computers are no more capable than turing machines | 19:09 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth, kanzure: is it naive to think that a 'good enough' system would work in conjunction with just making the protein and seeing what it looks like when it folds? | 19:09 |
| kanzure | roksprok: that's doable with crystallography | 19:10 |
| yashgaroth | sort of | 19:10 |
| kanzure | that's basically how ncbi has all those millions of pics of proteins | 19:10 |
| yashgaroth | crystallization of membrane proteins is a big problem, but that'll be doable in <5 years | 19:11 |
| roksprok | so then why is 'the protein folding problem' still a problem that will solve 90% of biology when it is solved | 19:11 |
| yashgaroth | because you can predict all interactions between proteins, DNA, and their environment | 19:11 |
| kanzure | many of the algorithms and tools aren't widely known, for one.. | 19:11 |
| kanzure | "rational protein design" tools for instance.. | 19:11 |
| AdrianG | thats a completely different problem from predicting protein folding | 19:12 |
| diginet | not completely | 19:12 |
| kanzure | oh, i guess protein design is different from enzymatic characterization | 19:12 |
| diginet | different, but intimately related | 19:12 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: isn't that more kinematics? or does protein folding encompass it all | 19:12 |
| diginet | just to be clear | 19:12 |
| roksprok | kanzure: didn't 'rational protein design' kind of lead to a bust? | 19:12 |
| kanzure | roksprok: once you have the final shape of the protein you can compute your standard chemistry simulations on it | 19:12 |
| diginet | there's no solution to the three body problem | 19:12 |
| kanzure | roksprok: what do you mean a bust ? | 19:12 |
| diginet | i.e. modern physics cannot precisely desrcibe the interaction of more than two particles | 19:13 |
| roksprok | as in it didn't lead to many actual drugs that worked? | 19:13 |
| kanzure | roksprok: i don't know what people tried | 19:13 |
| diginet | so when you're talking about things like proteins, consider the difficulty there | 19:13 |
| AdrianG | that would be more of a n-body problem. | 19:14 |
| kanzure | diginet: please provide a ref that protein simulation or rational protein design requires a solution to the three body problem | 19:14 |
| diginet | sure | 19:14 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: thats kind of like asking for a ref that arithmetics requires addition/substraction | 19:14 |
| diginet | you can simulate proteins without solving it, but you can't precisely describe their behavior to arbitrary precision | 19:14 |
| yashgaroth | haha guys there's a reason it would solve most of biology...because it'd be incredibly hard without a giant leap in computation and/or physics | 19:14 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: not really | 19:14 |
| diginet | AdrianG, haha, just ask Betrand Russel for that! | 19:15 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: also, that proof is possible (re: math) | 19:15 |
| diginet | kanzure, no, haven't you read Godel? | 19:15 |
| AdrianG | diginet: i think we should rather ask godel | 19:15 |
| AdrianG | oh here we go | 19:15 |
| kanzure | yes i have redad godel, | 19:15 |
| kanzure | are you a hofstadter brat? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | *read | 19:15 |
| diginet | Godel kind of shit all over the Principia | 19:15 |
| AdrianG | i like this diginet fellow. | 19:16 |
| diginet | AdrianG, well, thank you :) | 19:16 |
| AdrianG | well, godel or no godel, eventually we would be able to work out protein folding. | 19:16 |
| diginet | are you sure? | 19:16 |
| AdrianG | diginet: it was an expression of profound hope. | 19:17 |
| diginet | oh right | 19:17 |
| AdrianG | what makes you think it is not possible? | 19:17 |
| diginet | I'm not saying it isn't | 19:17 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: you suck for bringing up protein folding | 19:18 |
| diginet | I'm just saying the possibility isn't guaranteed | 19:18 |
| yashgaroth | heh I've been regretting it the past 10 minutes | 19:18 |
| AdrianG | nothing is guaranteed | 19:18 |
| AdrianG | diginet: my bet is that we will be able to treat it eventually | 19:19 |
| diginet | but you know, I think people like us, who live in first world countries forget we haven't even solved the most basic problem of all: producing food without extensive manual labour, or even reliably supplying it to a huge percentage of people | 19:19 |
| AdrianG | but empirically. kind of like we treat everything at first, without fully understanding why it works | 19:19 |
| joshcryer | yashgaroth, I found the statement to be accurate in any event. | 19:19 |
| AdrianG | diginet: that has been solved to an extent | 19:19 |
| diginet | AdrianG, if I had to guess, I'd probably would say we would, it's just people tend to arrogant assume that we will be able to do anything | 19:19 |
| AdrianG | which is why urbanization was made possible | 19:19 |
| diginet | except, what happens when everyone is urbanized | 19:19 |
| diginet | who puts food on our plate? | 19:20 |
| AdrianG | ? | 19:20 |
| kanzure | doom and gloom clan | 19:20 |
| diginet | who farms? | 19:20 |
| AdrianG | diginet: a very small amount of farm labour | 19:20 |
| kanzure | robots. | 19:20 |
| AdrianG | the staple food production requires very little manual labour these days. | 19:20 |
| diginet | how is it doom and gloom to not gloss over very real problems? | 19:20 |
| AdrianG | id worry about things like drought/fertilizers before labour. | 19:21 |
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| AdrianG | robots cant yet summon rain. | 19:21 |
| joshcryer | diginet, you do realize that agriculture is largely automated at this point right? | 19:21 |
| diginet | AdrianG, sure, but not for most people: how do we get auto farmers in the hands of the extremely poor? | 19:21 |
| joshcryer | You don't feed 7+ billion people without automation. | 19:21 |
| AdrianG | diginet: the extremely poor own no land. | 19:21 |
| diginet | well, that's true as well | 19:21 |
| AdrianG | they cant possibly farm. | 19:21 |
| AdrianG | anyway. | 19:21 |
| joshcryer | This is verging on politics for any substantitive discussion, to be honest. | 19:22 |
| AdrianG | also, r u guises aware that a marjorana fermion was possibly detected today? | 19:22 |
| joshcryer | Poor or not, rich or not, developing world or not, we need to take it to the next step with automated vertical lab farming with waste recycling. | 19:22 |
| diginet | I'm just saying, we humans aren't as smart as we tend to think we are, we haven't even solved stupid things | 19:22 |
| diginet | joshcryer, agreed | 19:23 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: diginet tends to politicize things immediately | 19:23 |
| joshcryer | I've worked in canning factories, it's 90% automated. | 19:23 |
| joshcryer | The only part that wasn't was the packaging. | 19:23 |
| kanzure | canning= making cans and putting things into them? | 19:23 |
| joshcryer | Mainly because packages tend to be opened by humans. | 19:23 |
| diginet | politicalizing? how | 19:24 |
| AdrianG | packaging can probably be automated as well | 19:24 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, not necessarily cans but jars too. | 19:24 |
| kanzure | oh man! jars too. jeeze | 19:24 |
| AdrianG | diginet: some stupid things just dont have enough incentive to solve | 19:24 |
| AdrianG | nobody works for nothing | 19:24 |
| diginet | I mean stupid things that affect us | 19:24 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: some people do work for nothing, you are lying to me | 19:24 |
| kanzure | i question your motives | 19:25 |
| AdrianG | an exception to the general rule. | 19:25 |
| diginet | you know the "class" of civilizations people reference when referring to aliens, Class 1 etc | 19:25 |
| joshcryer | diginet, well, I don't want to get into it too much, but basically a comment was made about poor people not having land, and we've seen what happens when land redistribution happens (the specialized farmers are removed and land given to unspecialized people who let the land go to waste, etc, etc). So it's not a question of land, it's a question of technology and knowledge dissemination. | 19:25 |
| joshcryer | But I don't want to talk politics, to be honest. | 19:25 |
| diginet | joshcryer, I'm not saying we necessarily should | 19:25 |
| diginet | sorry that's not what I mean, I didn't mean to imply that | 19:25 |
| joshcryer | AdrianG, you can automate packaging if the end user isn't a human being, imo. | 19:26 |
| diginet | I was just saying, how do we get more automization in countries where subsistence farming is still part of people's livelihood | 19:26 |
| diginet | we aren't even a class 1, we're class 0 | 19:26 |
| kanzure | diginet: you put the machines there | 19:26 |
| diginet | and if they break? | 19:26 |
| diginet | it's not that simple | 19:26 |
| kanzure | you are making it more complicated | 19:26 |
| joshcryer | You recycle them if they break. | 19:26 |
| AdrianG | diginet: why are concerned about that in the first place | 19:26 |
| kanzure | diginet: machine maintenance is a solved problem, in general | 19:27 |
| kanzure | (or replacements) | 19:27 |
| diginet | then why is it that we can't even buy cars that aren't expected to break down within 10 years or so? | 19:27 |
| kanzure | you can- you probably just buy terrible vehicles | 19:27 |
| diginet | ? people have the expectation cars will have problems, moreso for expensive cars (people don't buy ferraris because they never go into the shop) | 19:28 |
| joshcryer | Wait. | 19:28 |
| joshcryer | Do you realize how freaking ridiculous cars are? | 19:28 |
| joshcryer | They undergo hundreds millions of cycles! | 19:29 |
| roksprok | people still drive model t's around | 19:29 |
| diginet | Sure, but saying that machine maitenence is a "solved" problem is patently wrong | 19:29 |
| joshcryer | Cars lasting 10 years and going so far as to circle the planet a dozen times is crazy. | 19:29 |
| AdrianG | diginet: plenty of cars last 10 years with only minor repairs | 19:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | my truck has 218k miles, the car has 185k miles, neither smoke, the car gets over 30mpg, and it's a turbo | 19:30 |
| kanzure | machine maintenance is solved- you have highly skilled labor that can repair cars | 19:32 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: yes but how old ? | 19:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | truck is 1998, car is 1989 | 19:33 |
| kanzure | nice | 19:33 |
| kanzure | you don't drive much? | 19:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | so the car is 23 yrs old | 19:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | 185,000 miles, nope, i don't drive much | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | 15k a year is pretty decent on that truck. | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | 40 something miles a day. | 19:34 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: afaik, tractors drive even less | 19:34 |
| kanzure | for wheat harvesting you just cover the surface area a few hundred times over each year | 19:35 |
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| katsmeow-afk | the other car had over 100k miles also, i don't remember how many | 19:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | 1979 | 19:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | still ran well, but was a unibody type, and whre the suspension connected to the body, the body rusted away | 19:38 |
| kanzure | http://www.sintef.no/Projectweb/Geometry-Toolkits/Downloads/ | 19:41 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~hling/research/paper/intersection.htm | 19:41 |
| kanzure | fenn: what about sisl? | 19:41 |
| AdrianG | Efficient (that is, polynomial-time) quantum algorithms have been developed for simulating both Bosonic and Fermionic systems[30] and in particular, the simulation of chemical reactions beyond the capabilities of current classical supercomputers requires only a few hundred qubits.[31] | 19:43 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: tractors also experience enormous loads, your truck and car probably never have | 19:44 |
| AdrianG | off-road driving is also very hard on the machinery | 19:44 |
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| diginet | People love to talk about Moore's Law, but there's an actual law that people forget about, that is much more relevant: Amdahl's Law | 19:56 |
| joshcryer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd_qndyw104 | 20:04 |
| joshcryer | ^- 50 year old tractor | 20:04 |
| joshcryer | better video with mrpete (YouTube machinist, fascinating videos, he rocks): http://youtu.be/9qWzSCHjuWM | 20:05 |
| ParahSailin | coke bottles | 20:06 |
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| kanzure | hi louipc | 21:55 |
| louipc | hey hey | 21:55 |
| louipc | what's up? | 21:55 |
| kanzure | i'm debugging https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/commit/2588ff6255542bcaf8f20a6cafa3e9943cd0d292 | 21:56 |
| louipc | what's that do? | 21:56 |
| louipc | oh pokemon hehe | 21:57 |
| kanzure | it disassembles an old game into compiling asm | 21:57 |
| louipc | you seem to have a lot of interests | 21:57 |
| louipc | why asm? | 21:57 |
| kanzure | because source code! | 21:57 |
| louipc | hmmm | 21:57 |
| louipc | you know I was thinking the other day | 21:57 |
| kanzure | https://bitbucket.org/kanzure/pokered/raw/b57b31748bfc/main.asm | 21:58 |
| louipc | i bet advanced civilizations won't need to worry about compatibility between OSs | 21:59 |
| kanzure | they will just have an emulation layer? | 21:59 |
| louipc | programs will automatically decompile, recompile and fit the host | 21:59 |
| kanzure | emulation sounds easier | 21:59 |
| louipc | computers will be intelligent enough to automatically port the code | 22:00 |
| louipc | well, emulation exists now | 22:00 |
| louipc | but it's another layer, and it's not integrated into the host OS very nicely | 22:00 |
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| louipc | kanzure: know of any do it yourselfer nuclear reactor builders? | 22:04 |
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| Cat4D | its very simple | 22:05 |
| Cat4D | but you must eradicate the american problem | 22:06 |
| diginet | louipc, I do | 22:06 |
| diginet | look up David Hahn | 22:06 |
| louipc | the way they police it? | 22:06 |
| diginet | aka "The Nuclear Boyscout" | 22:06 |
| diginet | turned out well for him | 22:06 |
| louipc | I'm not interested in light water, or weaponisation/proliferation | 22:06 |
| louipc | just the good side of nuclear :P | 22:07 |
| diginet | diy nuclear reactor is just asking for trouble | 22:07 |
| diginet | I'm definitely not anti-nuclear | 22:07 |
| diginet | but | 22:07 |
| louipc | you're right | 22:07 |
| diginet | apart from the whole safety issue, it's also a good way to end up a in federal prison | 22:07 |
| diginet | actually you know what could be fun, but also more safe? | 22:08 |
| diginet | (I was thinking of doing this myself) | 22:08 |
| louipc | let's hear it | 22:08 |
| diginet | Get some sort of radioisotope, like tritium, and mix it with a phosphor like zinc sulfide (can be made yourself), then use a PV cell to harvest the energy, voila, atomic battery! | 22:09 |
| diginet | ovviously, efficiency is going to be low, zinc sulfide is a bad scintillator | 22:09 |
| diginet | but, it's definitely doable | 22:10 |
| louipc | good for the cloudy days I guess? | 22:10 |
| diginet | haha, yep! | 22:10 |
| diginet | they actually sell tritium keychains for that very purpose | 22:10 |
| diginet | illegal in US IIRC, but there are sources | 22:10 |
| louipc | intresting | 22:10 |
| diginet | I was looking for a good isotope for this very purpose, but never got around to it | 22:11 |
| louipc | it'll be interesting to see what the indians and chinese can do with thorium though | 22:12 |
| diginet | you want something which is a pure beta emitter, like tritium | 22:12 |
| diginet | yeah, Thorium is very promising | 22:12 |
| kanzure | uh | 22:12 |
| kanzure | diginet, stop trolling him :P | 22:12 |
| diginet | how am I trolling him? | 22:13 |
| kanzure | louipc: there's a few others in here more experienced with diy reactors than i am | 22:13 |
| louipc | he's sending the feds after me :D | 22:13 |
| kanzure | diginet: i think you're lying, and you haven't built a reactor or understand the nuiances of that community | 22:13 |
| louipc | hahah | 22:13 |
| diginet | when did I ever say I had built a reactor? | 22:13 |
| kanzure | louipc: nope, we're friends with the feds in here | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | mini theories :D | 22:13 |
| diginet | and what community? | 22:13 |
| kanzure | diginet: you said it's asking for trouble, like you were offering experience | 22:13 |
| kanzure | diginet: the home reactor community | 22:14 |
| diginet | . . . | 22:14 |
| diginet | home reactor community? god no | 22:14 |
| louipc | kanzure: well.... he is quite correct there isn't he? | 22:14 |
| diginet | it's asking for trouble because a) neutron radiation and b) highly illegal | 22:14 |
| kanzure | louipc: have you built one? | 22:14 |
| louipc | newp | 22:14 |
| kanzure | diginet: actually, no, it's not highly illegal.... | 22:14 |
| louipc | but there must be regulations | 22:14 |
| louipc | and I hope so | 22:14 |
| kanzure | let's see what articles i can pull up | 22:14 |
| kanzure | http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-06/deuterium-diy-man-builds-homemade-nuclear-fusion-reactor-brooklyn | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | OOC if you're building a reactor ( and doing it correctly ) | 22:15 |
| diginet | fusion? | 22:15 |
| louipc | I hope my neighbour isn't irradiating the hell out of me | 22:15 |
| kanzure | with apologies for linking to popsci | 22:15 |
| diginet | I thought we were talking about fission | 22:15 |
| diginet | of yeah | 22:15 |
| kanzure | http://hackaday.com/2011/08/06/the-diy-nuclear-reactor/ | 22:15 |
| diginet | fusion is legal | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | arent you going to be putting of substantially more power than a single home would need in a lifetime? | 22:15 |
| louipc | fission | 22:15 |
| diginet | boring, but legal | 22:15 |
| kanzure | oh, fission | 22:15 |
| diginet | yeah | 22:15 |
| diginet | sorry | 22:15 |
| kanzure | hmmm fission. | 22:15 |
| kanzure | let me think | 22:15 |
| diginet | dunno why I assumed fission | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | PS elon musks twitter background it the mangetic suspended taurus :D | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | whatcha think 'bout kanzure ? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | just trying to remember the right person's name | 22:16 |
| diginet | fusion does have neutron radiation, but I doubt it would be concern at the levels most fusors operate at | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | wheres my tyson degrasse meme | 22:16 |
| diginet | kanzure, DavidH Hahn? | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | the thorium reactor guy? | 22:16 |
| louipc | fusion... hasn't been made to produce positive output has it? | 22:16 |
| kanzure | http://boingboing.net/2011/08/04/man-busted-for-diy-fission-experiments.html | 22:16 |
| diginet | louipc, no | 22:16 |
| louipc | rite | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | ohhhh | 22:16 |
| diginet | if anyone says otherwise, they're a crank | 22:16 |
| louipc | heheheh | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | His suspicions were confirmed when police arrested him | 22:17 |
| louipc | other than the sun | 22:17 |
| diginet | yeah | 22:17 |
| louipc | and it's cousin stars | 22:17 |
| louipc | :P | 22:17 |
| diginet | I KNOW LETS BUILD A STAR | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | well cold fusion claims sure | 22:17 |
| diginet | seems legit | 22:17 |
| louipc | YA MAN | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | diginet, thats in effect what we're doing no :D | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | national ignition facility | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | whewt | 22:17 |
| * delinquentme thinking out loud | 22:18 | |
| diginet | I read the coolest short story when I was little, I could never find it, it was in some science fiction anthology, and this kid bought a kid to "grow your own star" and it turned into a black hole | 22:18 |
| delinquentme | sometimes I feel like I've lost that fear | 22:18 |
| delinquentme | im too comfy | 22:18 |
| delinquentme | needs more .. panic attacks | 22:18 |
| delinquentme | remind me of that abyss you know? | 22:18 |
| diginet | *kit, not kid | 22:18 |
| diginet | delinquentme, I have no idea what you're talking about? | 22:18 |
| delinquentme | diginet, panic attacks got me started on this living longer thing | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | havn't had one in a while | 22:19 |
| diginet | that doesn't sound healthy | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | like years and years | 22:19 |
| kanzure | i think living longer is important regardless of whether or not you have panic attacks? | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | panic attacks hahah | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, true | 22:19 |
| * superkuh is slowly putting together a copy of de Soto's ultramicro dense plasma focus. | 22:19 | |
| delinquentme | but the .... | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | encompassing fear to run from it | 22:20 |
| delinquentme | isnt there | 22:20 |
| diginet | considering I take medication for panic attacks (among other things) I can't imagine why someone would ever /want/ one | 22:20 |
| kanzure | a copy of his what? | 22:20 |
| superkuh | Next month I'll order most of the parts from mcmastercar. | 22:20 |
| superkuh | http://superkuh.com/library/Physics/Dense%20Plasma%20Focus/Nanofocus_%20an%20ultra-miniature%20dense%20pinch%20plasma%20focus%20device%20with%20submillimetric%20anode%20operating%20at%200.1%20J_%20PSST_Nanofocus_L_Soto_et_al_2009.pdf | 22:20 |
| kanzure | a focusing instrument? | 22:20 |
| delinquentme | its there but not at the cold sweat and instant presence of mind kind of way | 22:20 |
| kanzure | clicking | 22:20 |
| superkuh | kanzure, no, a type of magnetic pinch for thermonuclear fusion. | 22:20 |
| superkuh | Electrical discharge in moderate vacuum between coaxial cylindrical electrodes. | 22:20 |
| kanzure | oh that looks fun | 22:20 |
| delinquentme | sounds sexy | 22:20 |
| superkuh | http://superkuh.com/small-dense-plasma-focus.jpg | 22:20 |
| diginet | I don't get the generalization of the word "sexy" | 22:21 |
| superkuh | That sketch is using part sizes taken from McMastercar and the caps I have sitting around my apartment. | 22:21 |
| diginet | sex is about the last thing I think of when I think of fusion | 22:21 |
| kanzure | is that a person's shoe? | 22:21 |
| superkuh | For scale. | 22:21 |
| kanzure | what about scale bars | 22:21 |
| kanzure | not that i'm complaining | 22:21 |
| kanzure | their device generated .1J? | 22:23 |
| superkuh | No. That is the input energy. | 22:23 |
| superkuh | Very small. Easily controlled. | 22:23 |
| kanzure | for maintaining plasma? | 22:24 |
| superkuh | It is a pulsed device. | 22:24 |
| diginet | superkuh is going to kill us all | 22:24 |
| diginet | . . .with /awesomeness!/ | 22:24 |
| superkuh | I only hope to operate it with a noble gas an use the soft xrays in combination with pinholes to play. | 22:24 |
| louipc | the shoe's a nice touch | 22:25 |
| louipc | you guys heard about this? http://techshop.ws/ | 22:37 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:37 |
| kanzure | louipc: their equipment tends to be chronically over-scheduled | 22:38 |
| kanzure | er.. i mean. there's long waitlists. | 22:38 |
| louipc | oh I see | 22:38 |
| louipc | I heard they're opening more locations though | 22:38 |
| kanzure | are you aware of hackerspaces? | 22:39 |
| louipc | yeah | 22:39 |
| louipc | kanzure: know any that are licensed for nuclear reasarch? | 22:42 |
| louipc | hmm spelled that wrong | 22:42 |
| diginet | ahha, they could frame it on a wall, just like restaurants frame their licenses | 22:44 |
| louipc | heheh | 22:44 |
| louipc | kanzure: sorry, yeah there's a hackerspace near me, the only thing I know they have of marginal interest is a laser cutter | 22:45 |
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| kanzure | louipc: sounds sorta lame | 23:13 |
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| delinquentme | NIGHT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 23:53 |
| delinquentme | <3 | 23:53 |
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| diginet | off topic, but I think I found the greatest place on the internet | 23:55 |
| diginet | by which I mean, the worst | 23:55 |
| joshcryer | Please share it. | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sun Apr 22 00:00:46 2012 | ||
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