| --- Log opened Sun Apr 29 00:00:08 2012 | ||
| --- Day changed Sun Apr 29 2012 | ||
| jrayhawk | http://jeffareid.net/misc/aplfns.jpg i dunno, it's pretty hard to beat this | 00:00 |
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| kanzure | clearly i should do all of my web apps in APL | 00:00 |
| kanzure | http://aplwiki.com/MildServer | 00:00 |
| jrayhawk | ahaha awesome | 00:01 |
| kanzure | example: http://aplwiki.com/MildServer/Samples/Index | 00:01 |
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| kanzure | good night | 00:11 |
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| kanzure | beep boop | 06:05 |
| ENKI-][ | robby the robot for president | 06:11 |
| kanzure | works for me | 06:14 |
| kanzure | fenn: this is what github uses for wikis https://github.com/github/gollum | 06:19 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/upverter/schematic-file-converter seems to support kicad, geda, eagle, eagle xml | 06:47 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone, | 07:03 |
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| nmz787 | hola | 08:53 |
| kanzure | nmz787: yo | 08:54 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: chandni had an interview with isec partners friday | 08:54 |
| nmz787 | in sf | 08:54 |
| kanzure | cool. how'd it go? | 08:56 |
| nmz787 | she said she got ~%80 of the questions right | 08:56 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i've been doing some spring cleaning.. i moved some git repos over to github | 09:00 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer wrote a readme | 09:00 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/netmorph turned this into a git repository.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/netmorph/ for more info | 09:00 |
| nmz787 | cool, any news from fenn? I haven't gone through the logs for the past week or so | 09:04 |
| nmz787 | i know he had been doing some 3D design | 09:04 |
| kanzure | http://fennetic.net/irc/xy_table_unfinished.png | 09:05 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher | 09:05 |
| audy | I used to have a robby the robot | 09:07 |
| audy | oh never mind that was robie | 09:08 |
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| kanzure | screw the pastebins.. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Randal Koene <randal.a.koene@gmail.com> wrote: | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > I'm happy to see the code go somewhere, hence the GPL. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > There may be a few bugs, though we got rid of the ones that were relevant to | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > generating realistic neurons of specific types in a plausible way. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > The bigger issue is that there is a whole list of features that I was | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > working on when the project stopped and that I was never able to get back | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > to, so a few things are only partly implemented, and some not at all. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > One of the most important is the ability to use the code to generate | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > simulated histological slices. That means, to create a known network and | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > then turn that into thin slices just as would come out of an ATLUM or | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > similar procedure. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > The point of doing so is this: When using an ATLUM we wonder just what sort | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > of noise/errors/etc are really problematic to recovering the structure and | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > which are not. But with a real brain you never start with a known network, | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > so how do you know if the reconstruction succeeded? | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > With a simulated set of slices for a known network you can test all sorts of | 09:28 |
| kanzure | > noise and error conditions. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | simulated histology slides sound neat/useful | 09:28 |
| kanzure | added it to https://github.com/kanzure/netmorph/issues/1 | 09:33 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: so just in case, keep your eye open to 3 or 4 bedroom apartments/lofts/industrial space with a kitchen | 09:33 |
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| kanzure | hrmm | 09:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/29/singularity-university-technology-future-thinkers | 09:57 |
| kanzure | oh brother "Jim Gianopulos, the chairman of Fox Filmed Entertainment, went on a Singularity University course, and has since become evangelical about it" | 09:58 |
| kanzure | haha | 09:58 |
| JayDugger | Gee... | 09:58 |
| JayDugger | Well, perhaps we'll get some decent movies out of it. | 09:58 |
| JayDugger | Who will get cast in the various roles? | 09:59 |
| JayDugger | Ewan MacGregor as Ralph Merkle? | 09:59 |
| kanzure | ray kurzweil will play ray kurzweil | 09:59 |
| nmz787 | hah hah | 10:00 |
| JayDugger | Justin Timberlake as Robert Freitas? | 10:00 |
| nmz787 | fox is in on SU now | 10:00 |
| nmz787 | its gonna get a TV spot like American Idol.... American Entrepreneur | 10:00 |
| JayDugger | I dunno, Kurzweil seems pretty dead pan on video. | 10:00 |
| JayDugger | Ben Stein maybe? That gets the irony bonus. | 10:00 |
| kanzure | this is all awful | 10:00 |
| kanzure | let's see what they actually fund through SU | 10:01 |
| JayDugger | Yeah. I'll eat hot coals in hell for this part of the chat. | 10:01 |
| JayDugger | Since God will be pulling the wings off an angel for each time I started Bit Torrent, I suppose I am no worse off than before. | 10:01 |
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| kanzure | wtf thomas edison gave himself and his assistants "idea quotas" | 10:02 |
| JayDugger | Sir Ian MacKellen will play Ted Nelson, or Doug Engelbart... | 10:02 |
| JayDugger | or Frederick Taylor in the time travel movie. | 10:03 |
| nmz787 | lol | 10:03 |
| nmz787 | more ideas! | 10:03 |
| kanzure | nmz787: it was a limiting quota | 10:04 |
| JayDugger | nah...it's just a fun parody. If you want a better treatment, go read Niven & Pournelle: Inferno, and the recent sequel, whose title escapes me. | 10:04 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: hmm, don't want the ideas to be too watered down? | 10:05 |
| JayDugger | I should remember it better, given that Oppenheimer is in the same part of hell as the suicide bombers. | 10:05 |
| kanzure | nmz787: dunno | 10:06 |
| JayDugger | It blurs together with Zebrowski's short story about aliens who can't tell Carl Sagan from Moe howard. | 10:06 |
| JayDugger | But regardless, it was a fun read, and the parody made it better. | 10:07 |
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| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. I need some sleep. | 10:07 |
| JayDugger | George Clooney for Bram Cohen. | 10:14 |
| strangewarp | We must get Jonah Hill to play Eliezer Yudkowsky. | 10:19 |
| strangewarp | MAKE IT SO | 10:19 |
| strangewarp | Also, Christopher Walken is the obvious actor to play Kurzweil | 10:21 |
| roksprok | https://p.twimg.com/AeuClYxCMAIxMdV.jpg:large | 10:25 |
| roksprok | ^^^ibm job posting from 1959 | 10:25 |
| roksprok | strikingly similar to biotech job postings today | 10:25 |
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| roksprok | ie...required degree, they wanted someone to 'write differential equations' | 10:26 |
| roksprok | just as you see now with companies asking for a masters degree to do random lab tests | 10:26 |
| roksprok | gives me hope that synthetic biology/diybio/etc will perfuse through society | 10:28 |
| AdrianG | 1960 lol | 10:29 |
| AdrianG | roksprok: as long as biotech equipment prices keep dropping | 10:29 |
| AdrianG | and thats far from certain | 10:30 |
| AdrianG | also, computer viruses arent that scary. | 10:30 |
| AdrianG | now imagine script-kiddies with ebola or something | 10:30 |
| roksprok | well if you told those guys that sometime in the future everyeone would have several computers, they'd be asking 'what would they use them for?' | 10:30 |
| roksprok | because mice and gui's and os's didn't exist | 10:31 |
| AdrianG | how do you mitigate script-kiddies with ebolas | 10:31 |
| roksprok | have other script-kiddies with ebola vaccines? | 10:31 |
| AdrianG | its far easier to write potent infectious agents, than to understand immunology and how to cure/vaccinate/prevent it | 10:31 |
| roksprok | i disagree, its the same problem | 10:32 |
| AdrianG | it is the same problem, but the problem is asymmetricall | 10:32 |
| roksprok | one organism's infectious agent is another organism's immune system | 10:32 |
| roksprok | ok actually that sounded dumb | 10:33 |
| roksprok | i take that back | 10:33 |
| roksprok | that was dumb my bad | 10:33 |
| roksprok | but ebola exists...as do other awful things | 10:33 |
| AdrianG | how do you protect against quickly mutating viruses | 10:33 |
| AdrianG | like common cold/flu | 10:33 |
| roksprok | we do that....right now | 10:33 |
| AdrianG | yes, a seasonal vaccine | 10:33 |
| roksprok | have an immune system? antivirals? | 10:33 |
| AdrianG | script-kiddies wont be seasonal. | 10:34 |
| AdrianG | antivirals dont work for it. | 10:34 |
| roksprok | a hypothetical future where script-kiddies write viruses is a hypothetical future where we have synthetic immune systems | 10:34 |
| AdrianG | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#Biosafety_level.C2.A04 | 10:34 |
| AdrianG | luckily script-kiddies will kill themselves before anyone else | 10:35 |
| AdrianG | roksprok: vaccine are much more difficult to write because you have to take into account side-effects, etc | 10:35 |
| AdrianG | with destructive agents you dont have to worry about such optimizations. | 10:35 |
| kanzure | hi roksprok | 10:36 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: yes it's true that awful things exist and it's also true that you are not currently immune to those awful things | 10:37 |
| roksprok | hi kanzure....do you happen to know the guys from backyard brains? | 10:37 |
| kanzure | yes | 10:37 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: you are not invincible.. yet | 10:37 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: if diybio really takes off, it'll be worse than nuclear proliferation | 10:38 |
| kanzure | biology has taken off for the past 4 billion years | 10:38 |
| kanzure | you're late to the party | 10:38 |
| AdrianG | we've evolved along with everything else in 4 billion years. | 10:38 |
| kanzure | btw there are ways to prevent contact with viruses | 10:38 |
| kanzure | air gaps, filtration, immune response, vaccines, etc. | 10:39 |
| kanzure | obv. the second two aren't "preventing contact" but you get the idea | 10:39 |
| AdrianG | some can infect via skin contact | 10:40 |
| kanzure | yep.. i suggest not putting your skin in contact with pathogens | 10:40 |
| AdrianG | you really think synthetic viruses are nothing different to deal with vs viruses we've been living with for a few billion years? | 10:40 |
| kanzure | i think everyone should judge on their own how much exposure they are willing to have | 10:40 |
| kanzure | some people prefer to wear masks everywhere they go- look at people in shenzhen or beijing | 10:41 |
| AdrianG | its a grey-goo scenario. | 10:41 |
| kanzure | no it's not | 10:41 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: there are many diseases that you can contract even /now/ | 10:42 |
| AdrianG | virus is a self-replication nanotech. only nanotech that's actually working. | 10:42 |
| kanzure | grey goo is when the earth is transformed into goo | 10:43 |
| kanzure | every atom repurposed | 10:43 |
| kanzure | viruses aren't going to do that. bacteria isn't going to do that either. | 10:43 |
| AdrianG | i dont think thats going to matter if you are dead | 10:43 |
| AdrianG | it's an ecophage, but its ecology is multicellular organisms. | 10:44 |
| kanzure | are you saying you're too lazy to take precautions in your life? | 10:44 |
| kanzure | i don't understand- surely you have your vaccinations, and surely you don't breath exhaust from your car? | 10:44 |
| AdrianG | producing weaponized pathogens is expensive now. | 10:45 |
| AdrianG | you really think anthrax is about as bad as breathing in exhaust fumes? | 10:45 |
| kanzure | it doesn't matter if a human makes the pathogen or not | 10:45 |
| kanzure | you still have to protect yourself in *either* case | 10:46 |
| AdrianG | ofc its does matter | 10:46 |
| kanzure | nope. not at all. | 10:46 |
| kanzure | do you think you should let that pathogen have contact with you b/c it's human-made or something? | 10:47 |
| AdrianG | what? | 10:48 |
| kanzure | nature can make awful viruses that will kill you- and so can humans- it doesn't really matter who makes it, you still should protect yourself | 10:49 |
| AdrianG | nature does not synthesize viruses de novo. | 10:50 |
| AdrianG | they evolve. along with every other organism present on earth. | 10:50 |
| kanzure | i guess one of your self-preservation strategies might be "discourging people from learning about diybiology because someone might do a bad thing", but that's not a reasonable strategy because it doesn't make "evil doers" disappear from the picture | 10:50 |
| kanzure | (because that would be like saying "if i close my eyes hard enough, or regulate hard enough, the structure of this problem (that i can get sick) will go away") | 10:51 |
| kanzure | *enough | 10:51 |
| kanzure | ok, so you're saying there's some level of technology that can be incorporated into a synthetic virus, that current viruses don't have | 10:51 |
| kanzure | that's probably true, but it's not grey goo, and you still shouldn't have contact with it | 10:51 |
| AdrianG | yes, everyone will wear positive-pressure suits 24/7. | 10:53 |
| kanzure | i doubt it- i think it would be more like space habitats | 10:53 |
| ENKI-][ | space habs are closed systems. one evildoer kills the whole hab, and maybe other habs don't hear about it before it spreads | 10:54 |
| kanzure | ENKI-][: ok sure, you still need to detect what went wrong in a habitat | 10:54 |
| ENKI-][ | thinking of a situation like stross's Glasshouse | 10:54 |
| kanzure | ENKI-][: however, i think the most important thing is the log of environmental contact | 10:54 |
| kanzure | or syncs i mean. whatever. | 10:54 |
| kanzure | obviously those can be faked so there would be some network of trust, blah blah blah | 10:55 |
| kanzure | *web of trust | 10:55 |
| kanzure | anyway, people inside different environments (like their homes) don't need to wear suits... they can be naked for all i care | 10:55 |
| ENKI-][ | that's a problem with any system involving multiple actors and rewards. there's a benefit to parasitism that is nonzero at best. | 10:55 |
| kanzure | i also don't think it's necessary to wear pressure suits going outside on earth right now- it seems 100% hospitable to human life at the moment :) | 10:56 |
| ENKI-][ | well, parasitism and social engineering | 10:56 |
| AdrianG | well, once diybio level 4 labs are available to everyone | 10:56 |
| AdrianG | it might be the time to start wearing one | 10:56 |
| kanzure | but i can imagine scenarios where the earth's atmosphere becomes unbreathable- like in nuclear winter contexts, or the atmosphere is poisoned, or there is a horrible airborne plague that i can't filter out | 10:57 |
| AdrianG | all we'll need will be one unabomber | 10:57 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: yeah again, it's a personal decision that you have to make for yourself | 10:57 |
| kanzure | most people don't think about it because, so far we have never had to do that | 10:57 |
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| kanzure | but every time we step onto the ocean floor we're in a suit- people don't question *that* | 10:57 |
| AdrianG | we had plagues. | 10:57 |
| AdrianG | in fact, nobody's even immune to smallpox. | 10:57 |
| kanzure | yeah, right now we're horribly susceptible to plagues | 10:58 |
| kanzure | are you a hypochondriac? | 10:58 |
| AdrianG | no, why? | 10:58 |
| kanzure | *shrug* just wondering | 10:58 |
| AdrianG | i think its just a very plausible possibility | 10:58 |
| AdrianG | think about ti. | 10:58 |
| kanzure | yeah i've already agreed with you.. but your original idea was "STOP DIYBIO" which isn't a good solution | 10:59 |
| AdrianG | you can be damn sure diybio is going to be controlled | 10:59 |
| AdrianG | nah, i ddint say that | 10:59 |
| kanzure | my idea is "HERE ARE SOME TOOLS THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE" | 10:59 |
| AdrianG | u cant stop it | 10:59 |
| kanzure | you just said it though | 10:59 |
| kanzure | "is going to be controlled" | 10:59 |
| kanzure | i think you're being inconsistent | 10:59 |
| AdrianG | sure, meth is controlled | 10:59 |
| AdrianG | has that changed anything | 10:59 |
| kanzure | no it isn't | 10:59 |
| kanzure | tons of meth labs are unregulated | 10:59 |
| AdrianG | is methamphetamine a controlled substance: y/n | 11:00 |
| kanzure | "controlled substance" refers to a legal concept, not actual control of the situation | 11:00 |
| AdrianG | how else are they going to be controlled | 11:00 |
| AdrianG | defacto, without supporting laws? | 11:00 |
| kanzure | meth labs *aren't*.. that's why there's so many of them | 11:00 |
| AdrianG | we'll probably have a similar situation with diybio | 11:01 |
| kanzure | iirc i saw a number once saying at least 10,000 meth labs in texas | 11:01 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: i don't think supporting additional regulation of diybio would help people in the long run | 11:01 |
| AdrianG | i dont think so either | 11:02 |
| AdrianG | but it'll happen, i am sure. | 11:02 |
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| kanzure | none of the diybio experts agree either | 11:02 |
| AdrianG | or do you think everyone will be ok with everyone having a bit of smallpox at home? | 11:02 |
| kanzure | nobody is suggesting that you keep smallpox at home | 11:02 |
| AdrianG | im just saying | 11:02 |
| AdrianG | u just have to scare some soccer moms, and done | 11:02 |
| kanzure | done what ? | 11:02 |
| AdrianG | diybio outlawed/restricted/etc | 11:03 |
| kanzure | those are all just penalties | 11:03 |
| AdrianG | in most countries, you cant even own handguns easily | 11:03 |
| kanzure | you can make one, and not tell anyone about it | 11:03 |
| AdrianG | and u think diybio tech will be legal? | 11:03 |
| kanzure | soccer moms are not diybio experts | 11:03 |
| kanzure | you shouldn't listen to them | 11:03 |
| AdrianG | but they vote | 11:04 |
| AdrianG | or maybe scare seniors | 11:04 |
| AdrianG | whoever votes. | 11:04 |
| kanzure | whether or not your scare tactics work, that doesn't change anything that i've said | 11:04 |
| AdrianG | http://www.crscientific.com/texas-glassware.html | 11:04 |
| kanzure | for instance, natural plagues can't be "regulated against" by soccer moms | 11:04 |
| kanzure | in the end, the soccer moms will need to take medication too | 11:04 |
| kanzure | it's just how our biology works | 11:04 |
| AdrianG | texas has already permits for glassware lol | 11:05 |
| kanzure | yes i'm aware. | 11:05 |
| AdrianG | hilarious | 11:05 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i wonder how that glassware law would apply/not to microfluidics? | 11:06 |
| AdrianG | it wouldnt | 11:06 |
| AdrianG | those are mainly diagnostic devices, at least currently? | 11:07 |
| AdrianG | FDA will restrict those for you, dont worry. | 11:07 |
| kanzure | nmz787: haven't checked | 11:08 |
| AdrianG | microfuidics are not glassware. | 11:09 |
| ThomasEgi | you guys arent seriously trying to comply with regulations? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | ThomasEgi: i don't see it as important yet- we're in such an early stage that we haven't even ordered parts yet | 11:10 |
| kanzure | nmz787: which, by the way, we need to do.. | 11:10 |
| nmz787 | right | 11:11 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: compliance is always in my mind... i don't want my ass getting locked up or sued to homelessness | 11:11 |
| nmz787 | but at the same time, as kanzure mentioned, i don't think we're at any stage where we have to really think much about compliance | 11:12 |
| ThomasEgi | i see.well. from my own experience, trying to comply with regulations will make hit a roadblock and ruin your day. but then. i am not messing with biological stuff, mostly | 11:12 |
| kanzure | right now we are in complete compliance :) since we're not doing anything >_< | 11:13 |
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| ThomasEgi | just my 2 ¢ . and now it is time for an intermission, called pancakes! | 11:13 |
| AdrianG | that texas glasswaer | 11:14 |
| AdrianG | law | 11:14 |
| AdrianG | has anyone been arrested yet under that law | 11:14 |
| nmz787 | most likely | 11:14 |
| nmz787 | but its really meant to catch meth cookers, not prospective business startups | 11:14 |
| kanzure | in the past four years of diybio i haven't been informed of any diybio-related arrests really | 11:16 |
| nmz787 | ttyl | 11:17 |
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| AdrianG | lawmakers dont care about diybio yet | 11:18 |
| kanzure | sure they do | 11:19 |
| kanzure | look at the report from pcsbi in 2011 | 11:19 |
| kanzure | (the president's) | 11:19 |
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| AdrianG | dont care enough to pass laws about it | 11:33 |
| ENKI-][ | laws are another thing that don't take into account cheaters | 11:35 |
| ENKI-][ | the law only really affects people with a kneejerk submission response to authority, except when there is clear and present enforcement | 11:35 |
| ENKI-][ | in other words, outside of a police state, legality only truly matters to the kind of people who don't really need laws to keep them in line (and will follow any suggestion about good/moral behavior) | 11:36 |
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| kanzure | hrmm | 14:05 |
| kanzure | for some reason the response to my README file for nanoengineer has been overwhelmingly positive | 14:05 |
| kanzure | http://www.facebook.com/kanzure/posts/448335391848427 | 14:06 |
| kanzure | "Bryan!!!!! YOU HERO" it's a readme :| | 14:06 |
| kanzure | i guess nobody was interested when i posted it last year? | 14:07 |
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| Cat4D | "affect" is a belief system, ENKI-][ | 15:01 |
| kanzure | "All segments of the video show portions of a molecular dynamics simulation of a small bearing rotating at 5 GHz." | 15:23 |
| kanzure | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4537373229618869344 | 15:23 |
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| kanzure | hrmm there was a nanotech xprize being setup in 2006 | 15:39 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20060902073405/http://www.xprizefoundation.com/prizes/nanotechx.asp | 15:39 |
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| kanzure | someone's diy tdcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ieujpNM-D8 | 15:48 |
| kanzure | oh it's ianmathwiz7.. well ok | 15:48 |
| kanzure | all of the "related" videos are really pathetic | 15:48 |
| eudoxia | oh its' that guy | 15:48 |
| eudoxia | oh god tom horn | 15:49 |
| kanzure | "NotForSaleNWO" "ResistNWO".. come on, this is the best we can do? shit | 15:49 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: hm? i don't know who that is | 15:49 |
| eudoxia | the "transhumanism == nwo" guy | 15:49 |
| eudoxia | the guy who thinks the military is creating furries to be snipers or some shit | 15:49 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: are you a good wordsmith? | 15:54 |
| eudoxia | not really | 15:54 |
| eudoxia | why? | 15:55 |
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| yashgaroth | isn't that the plot of tank girl | 15:55 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: i am writing a quick article about http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme for foresight institute's blog | 15:55 |
| eudoxia | oh yeah the readme you mentioned | 15:56 |
| kanzure | yes well.. still figuring out what to write | 15:56 |
| kanzure | http://piratepad.net/tGR4Aaqh6o | 15:56 |
| kanzure | most of this sounds like a marketing brochure | 15:57 |
| eudoxia | maybe it should | 15:57 |
| kanzure | long/complicated sentences aren't ideal for a blog | 15:57 |
| kanzure | nanoengineer was featured on the http://foresight.org/nanodot blog a few times in the past but it was never actually /explained/ | 15:58 |
| eudoxia | does anybody actually read the blog anymore | 15:58 |
| kanzure | probably not | 15:59 |
| eudoxia | yeah | 15:59 |
| kanzure | but christine peterson is right.. it should be announced by foresight institute | 15:59 |
| kanzure | since all the nanotech molecular machine bigwigs are still somewhat associated with foresight institute or institute for molecular manufacturing | 16:00 |
| kanzure | also: i didn't notice beore but tom moore's blog is still going strong since 2007 http://machine-phase.blogspot.com/ he seems to be posting nanoengineer-related simulation results | 16:00 |
| kanzure | oh hm. no he's possibly using blender. | 16:00 |
| eudoxia | he was going strong but has sort of stopped recently | 16:01 |
| eudoxia | except for that adamantane simulation | 16:01 |
| eudoxia | and yeah he wrote his own blender renderer | 16:01 |
| kanzure | lame. | 16:01 |
| eudoxia | I added something to the pad | 16:02 |
| kanzure | what was "crystal clear" | 16:03 |
| eudoxia | wait actually it was called somethin gelse | 16:03 |
| eudoxia | http://goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au/~gl/research/nano/crystal.html | 16:03 |
| eudoxia | the only executable is for the SGI lololollolol | 16:03 |
| kanzure | oh that's neat | 16:05 |
| kanzure | didn't know about that one | 16:05 |
| kanzure | neat ... some pdb files of bearings, blocks and tubes http://goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au/~gl/research/nano/structures/ | 16:05 |
| eudoxia | that's pretty useful | 16:06 |
| eudoxia | I always thought the parts library needed more items | 16:06 |
| eudoxia | I was kinda saddened when Freitas said he expected it to grow to "many thousands" in a few years ;_; | 16:06 |
| kanzure | honestly i want to see freitas, merckle and drexler commiting to the git repo- what the heck are they spending all their time on if not simulations? | 16:08 |
| eudoxia | yeah | 16:08 |
| eudoxia | also those two books merkle and freitas have been writing | 16:08 |
| kanzure | "NanoEngineer is the first molecular engineering CAD program." i don't think it particularly matters that it's the first or not | 16:13 |
| eudoxia | originally I intended to say it was the first that combined CAD with molecular design | 16:13 |
| kanzure | "NanoEngineer is the first free, open-source, Linux-compatible Mac-compatible Windows-compatible molecular engineering and structural DNA nanotechnology CAD program" | 16:13 |
| kanzure | i'm not really sure what the news is supposed to be | 16:14 |
| eudoxia | it's kind of late to announce anything | 16:16 |
| eudoxia | unless you're announcing a new version | 16:16 |
| eudoxia | like "the all new NanoEngineer-1, NanoEngineer-2" | 16:16 |
| kanzure | the whole -1 naming thing is really silly | 16:18 |
| eudoxia | i agree | 16:18 |
| kanzure | i am also debating whether or not it should be capitalized with Engineer | 16:19 |
| kanzure | it should be referred to by its versions: nanoengineer v1.0.0 and nanoengineer v1.0.1 | 16:19 |
| eudoxia | you mean use 'NanoEngineer' insted of the original 'NanoENGINEER' | 16:19 |
| kanzure | haha | 16:19 |
| kanzure | actually i saw it written as nanoENGINEER (R) somewhere | 16:19 |
| eudoxia | I like the original CamelCase | 16:20 |
| eudoxia | brb food | 16:20 |
| lichen | http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/olson20120426 | 16:51 |
| lichen | this article is kind of groan-worthy | 16:52 |
| lichen | "here's a neat advance that lowers the cost of drug synthesis for laboratories... WHICH MEANS ITLL BE USED TO MAKE METH" | 16:53 |
| kanzure | in general, ieet is like that :p | 16:55 |
| lichen | yeah | 16:55 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 31ab000 ignore automake-generated files | 16:58 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNEeqCACwo | 16:58 |
| kanzure | the video's description is fluff | 17:00 |
| kanzure | what is it actually about | 17:00 |
| jrayhawk | jack kruse performs hilarious medical experiments on self and others | 17:00 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: do you feel like helping to get nanoengineer running again? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Setting_up_an_NE1_Development_Environment_on_Linux | 17:02 |
| eudoxia | does it work with the new python now? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: nope | 17:03 |
| jrayhawk | i have enough trouble keeping my own projects working on unstable languages | 17:03 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: most of the problems are related to reliably tracking down old versions of packages, or writing scripts that will probably work | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "sudo apt-get install python-numarray=1.5.2-2.2ubuntu1" | 17:04 |
| kanzure | derp .. http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/p/python-numarray/python-numarray_1.5.2-4/changelog | 17:04 |
| kanzure | not found | 17:04 |
| jrayhawk | archive.debian.org archive.ubuntu.com | 17:05 |
| kanzure | http://archive.debian.net/en/etch/i386/python-numarray/download | 17:05 |
| kanzure | what's the right way to do this from a single apt-get command? or would i have to tell users to modify their apt sources, add one of these archives, and do -t whatever | 17:06 |
| jrayhawk | With something that screwy, a dedicated userspace run as a chroot is probably the best bet. | 17:08 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: would that be better than me serving the files publicly in some random folder? | 17:09 |
| jrayhawk | I would make instructions for how to build something approximating the userspace, then distribute the userspace. | 17:10 |
| kanzure | i see. yeah, i think some of this depends on ancient versions of libc. | 17:12 |
| jrayhawk | and, of course, treat that userspace as a temporary measure until you get things working with modern infrastructure | 17:13 |
| kanzure | yes i've always imagined it would be something like "start with some VM image" and "incrementally upgrade once library at a time" | 17:14 |
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| kanzure | libdb4.5_4.5.20-1_i386.deb <-- can't find this | 17:14 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarchive.ubuntu.com+%22libdb4.5%22 | 17:16 |
| kanzure | it's a cygwin library? o.o | 17:17 |
| kanzure | http://ie.archive.ubuntu.com/cygwin/release-legacy/db/db4.5/libdb4.5/libdb4.5-4.5.20-1.tar.bz2 | 17:17 |
| jrayhawk | It's a c library. | 17:17 |
| jrayhawk | http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/d/db4.5/ | 17:17 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: is running an ancient libc version under chroot a reasonable thing? | 17:20 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. I've run libc5 on modern kernels, even. | 17:21 |
| kanzure | so what would distributing a chroot environment look like? i've never done that | 17:21 |
| kanzure | i understand distributing a giant vm image, but that's the sucker's way out :) | 17:21 |
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| jrayhawk | tar -Jcf nanoengineer-chroot.tar.xz nanoengineer-chroot/ | 17:22 |
| jrayhawk | The chroot itself you can mostly construct with debootstrap or cdebootstrap, presumably. | 17:23 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: making a chroot that assumes debian will be nice for those who don't want to run a vm and already use debian | 17:24 |
| kanzure | but then other users will want to get the original version running on their OS | 17:24 |
| kanzure | so then i'll be stuck debugging what other awful versions people have for their separate distributions | 17:24 |
| kanzure | distributing a single vm image would probably be the smarter thing to do? | 17:24 |
| jrayhawk | I don't see what the host distribution has to do with anything? | 17:24 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: deboostrap can install debian things on a non-debian system? | 17:25 |
| jrayhawk | No, tar can. | 17:25 |
| jrayhawk | Well, and yes debootstrap can | 17:26 |
| jrayhawk | debootstrap doesn't rely on anything other than libc | 17:26 |
| jrayhawk | but there's no real point; it's not like a distribution from 2007 is going to get security updates | 17:26 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: alright | 17:28 |
| kanzure | i like the sounds of this | 17:28 |
| kanzure | *sound | 17:28 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: so i cdeboostrap with a particular mirror/archive from waybackwhen, then chroot into a bash sesson using that as the root, dselect some things, then tar it up into your .tar.xz? | 17:30 |
| jrayhawk | Something like that. Looks like there's unpackaged software to install in that chroot as well, if those directions are any indication. | 17:31 |
| jrayhawk | And you may as well install nanoengineer-1 into that userspace as well. | 17:32 |
| jrayhawk | as well as well as well | 17:32 |
| kanzure | do you mind if i do this on gnusha? | 17:32 |
| jrayhawk | Sounds fine. | 17:32 |
| kanzure | or would it be better to do this on my fairlystable vserver | 17:32 |
| kanzure | ok | 17:32 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: can you confirm- it looks like i want etch? g++ 4.1.2, qt 4.3.5, python2.5, | 17:39 |
| jrayhawk | I didn't see db4.5 in any debian release, so I'm guessing ubuntu will work out better. | 17:40 |
| kanzure | is the only difference that i should use cdebootstrap with an ubuntu mirror? | 17:40 |
| jrayhawk | Well, you'll want to choose the right suite. | 17:40 |
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| kanzure | eh? it looks like they want ubuntu 7.04 | 17:40 |
| jrayhawk | Sounds reasonable. | 17:41 |
| kanzure | heh http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/7.04/ "These images are vulnerable to USN-612-1, a very serious flaw in the cryptographic library used to generate encryption keys. It is essential that you apply all security updates after installation before making any use of your system." | 17:41 |
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| kanzure | hmm i see some ISOs | 17:42 |
| kanzure | god did i really just capitalize the extension? i regretted that immediately | 17:42 |
| jrayhawk | there's probably an ISO standard for capitalizing ISO | 17:43 |
| kanzure | am i just sucking at search? where is the mirror url | 17:44 |
| jrayhawk | archive.ubuntu.org/ubuntu/ | 17:44 |
| jrayhawk | err, .com | 17:44 |
| kanzure | i don't see it: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ | 17:44 |
| jrayhawk | http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ huh | 17:46 |
| jrayhawk | i wonder why those are separate | 17:46 |
| kanzure | do you prefer debootstrap or cdebootstrap? | 17:47 |
| jrayhawk | I find debootstrap is better maintained. | 17:48 |
| jrayhawk | For instance, debootstrap has direct support for feisty. | 17:49 |
| kanzure | huh i can't find a cdeboostrap homepage.. just some mailing list stuff. sooo yeah, deboostrap it is. | 17:49 |
| kanzure | *debootstrap | 17:49 |
| kanzure | *cdebootstrap | 17:49 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: which package for chroot do you prefer? chrootuid, dchroot, or schroot? | 17:51 |
| jrayhawk | debootstrap takes care of the chroot setup for you | 17:52 |
| jrayhawk | at which point you can use of the chroot in gnu coreutils | 17:52 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: E: Cannot install into target '/home/bryan/nanoengineer-chroot' mounted with noexec or nodev | 17:58 |
| kanzure | hrm | 17:58 |
| jrayhawk | oh, fascinating | 17:58 |
| kanzure | do i have to edit /etc/fstab? | 17:58 |
| jrayhawk | I doubt it. It's probably a vserver restriction. | 17:59 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: ideas? | 18:01 |
| jrayhawk | ah, yeah, it wants to install device nodes. right. I'll get that first step done outside... | 18:02 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: export CHROOT=~/nanoengineer-chroot; mkdir -p $CHROOT; sudo debootstrap --arch i386 feisty $CHROOT http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/; | 18:08 |
| kanzure | oh sorry i forgot to report the other part of the original error message; | 18:08 |
| kanzure | mknod: `/root/nanoengineer-chroot/test-dev-null': Operation not permitted | 18:08 |
| kanzure | er, this was before i realized i was using ~ in sudo or something | 18:08 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: ping? | 18:15 |
| jrayhawk | Okay, sudo chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot | 18:16 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: is this with feisty installed already? | 18:16 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 18:16 |
| kanzure | thank you! | 18:16 |
| jrayhawk | Basically the debootstrap command you ran, only outside of the vserver restrictions (and minus the dists/feisty/ part of the URL) | 18:17 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: erm, now what? | 18:18 |
| kanzure | i guess i install things | 18:18 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 18:18 |
| kanzure | is modern git an okay idea? :| | 18:18 |
| jrayhawk | Eh, you don't really need modern git features | 18:19 |
| kanzure | where should i put things in this chroot? /root? | 18:19 |
| jrayhawk | Wherever you like! | 18:19 |
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| jrayhawk | /usr/src for source and /usr/local for installation is traditional | 18:20 |
| kanzure | root@gnusha:/# adduser nanoengineeruser | 18:20 |
| kanzure | perl: warning: Setting locale failed. | 18:20 |
| kanzure | perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: | 18:20 |
| kanzure | LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LANG = "en_US.UTF-8" | 18:20 |
| jrayhawk | you may wish to install locales, which are not a base dependency | 18:20 |
| jrayhawk | and/or dpkg-reconfigure locales | 18:21 |
| kanzure | nanoengineer by default uses this /home/user/Nanoengineer thing so i should probably use a user | 18:21 |
| jrayhawk | that's dumb but i suppose this is all dumb | 18:21 |
| kanzure | wait how is this /all/ dumb? | 18:22 |
| kanzure | bit rot is natural | 18:22 |
| jrayhawk | With unstable languages, maybe. | 18:23 |
| nmz787 | hi | 18:26 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory | 18:26 |
| kanzure | this is after: sudo apt-get install locales | 18:27 |
| jrayhawk | you may want to dpkg-reconfigure debconf and set it to a saner priority | 18:27 |
| jrayhawk | in ubuntu-land, everyone is assumed to be terrified of configuration dialogues | 18:28 |
| kanzure | what is a saner priority? it is set to "high" | 18:29 |
| kanzure | oh well. medium it is. | 18:30 |
| jrayhawk | I don't remember what priority you get to configure locales at, but low should catch everything | 18:30 |
| jrayhawk | and be educational besides! | 18:30 |
| jrayhawk | anyway, then you can probably dpkg-reconfigure locales to greater effect | 18:30 |
| kanzure | erm.. now what? | 18:30 |
| kanzure | the locales package seems to be installed anyway | 18:30 |
| kanzure | reconfigure locales? | 18:30 |
| jrayhawk | don't argue with me young man! | 18:31 |
| jrayhawk | i swear to god i will turn this chatroom around and go right back home! | 18:31 |
| kanzure | no sir i'll be good i'll stop yelling at the homeless people i promise | 18:31 |
| kanzure | welp, setting "low" didn't help with "dpkg-reconfigure locales" | 18:32 |
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| jrayhawk | whaaat the hell | 18:33 |
| kanzure | holy hell pastie.org is down | 18:33 |
| kanzure | http://pastebin.com/TSfV0iwb | 18:33 |
| kanzure | guh i hate that | 18:33 |
| kanzure | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=TSfV0iwb | 18:33 |
| kanzure | to be fair.. on my laptop i seem to have $LANGUAGE and $LC_ALL unset too | 18:34 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: export LANG=C <-- seems to help clean up the issues | 18:37 |
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| nmz787 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morpholino | 18:47 |
| nmz787 | kinda cool, sortof | 18:47 |
| jrayhawk | yeah, it appears the debconf interface to locales is simply removed in that release | 18:48 |
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| jrayhawk | you can 'echo en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 > /etc/locale.gen; locale-gen' if you want to show off your cultural imperialist might | 18:50 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: it's asking for g++=4.1.2-0ubuntu4 but all i see is g++=4.1.2-1ubuntu1 | 18:50 |
| kanzure | erm, rather, i'm asking for | 18:51 |
| kanzure | i suppose this minor version difference shouldn't matter but i'd rather not risk it | 18:51 |
| jrayhawk | That's probably a security update. | 18:51 |
| kanzure | okay. | 18:51 |
| kanzure | hrm.. qt4-dev-tools isn't found | 18:52 |
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| jrayhawk | There exists a qt4-dev-tools in feisty-backports | 18:56 |
| kanzure | alright | 18:56 |
| jrayhawk | oh, no wait, it's just mysteriously referenced there. hmm. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | didn't work anyway :p | 18:57 |
| kanzure | it seems to be referenced by libqt4-dev | 18:57 |
| kanzure | as a recommends | 18:58 |
| kanzure | well my other option is to compile it from the qt sources | 18:59 |
| nmz787 | http://www.northstreetlabs.org/laser.html | 18:59 |
| nmz787 | via hackaday | 18:59 |
| nmz787 | 1.3W 445nm laser video at end | 18:59 |
| nmz787 | nothin too crazy | 19:00 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/q/qt4-x11/ ? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | what is "universe" | 19:00 |
| jrayhawk | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu | 19:01 |
| kanzure | apt-get update is eating it up | 19:01 |
| kanzure | aha | 19:01 |
| kanzure | hrm.. qt4-dev-tools 4.3.2 is the latest version there | 19:03 |
| kanzure | well that's not fair.. it runs on osx 10.6.8 without trouble | 19:08 |
| kanzure | /dev/mem Operation not permitted | 19:16 |
| kanzure | what operation :( | 19:16 |
| jrayhawk | are you trying to start an x server | 19:17 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: just installing some qt4 packages | 19:18 |
| jrayhawk | haha what the hell | 19:18 |
| kanzure | it's a CAD program | 19:18 |
| kanzure | anywho aptitude seems to have succeeded | 19:18 |
| kanzure | o.o getting python-numarray=1.5.2-2.2ubuntu1 gets gcc-3.4-base | 19:19 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: how can i test this out? will ssh -X work? | 19:48 |
| JayDugger | What do you test? | 19:49 |
| jrayhawk | You'll have to forward the socket into it; socat can probably do that... | 19:50 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: i'm not familiar with that | 19:52 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, normally you'd want to bindmount /tmp into the chroot or just let it go over localhost, but you're not running it locally, so... | 19:53 |
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| jrayhawk | Give me a second and I can probably work it out. | 19:53 |
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| nmz787 | jrayhawk: kanzure: you mean ssh -D? | 19:55 |
| nmz787 | SOCKS proxy? | 19:55 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i am compiling nanoengineer on a remote server in a chroot | 19:56 |
| kanzure | instead of downloading the entire chroot i can run it remotely | 19:56 |
| kanzure | then use x11 forwarding over ssh to see what i'm doing | 19:57 |
| jrayhawk | oh, durr, ssh forwards the socket as 127.0.0.1:6010 | 19:59 |
| jrayhawk | I was expecting a unix socket. | 19:59 |
| jrayhawk | So, yeah, run it with DISPLAY=:10 | 19:59 |
| jrayhawk | oh, i guess you might need to copy your .Xauthority in there if you use -X, which is wise given how many users are on there. | 20:00 |
| jrayhawk | if you use -Y, I'd suggest doing so in a dedicated nested server. | 20:01 |
| JayDugger | Good point. | 20:02 |
| kanzure | damndedy damn damn.. compile error | 20:02 |
| kanzure | HDF5_SimResults.cpp: In member function 'int Nanorex::HDF5_SimResults::readMeasurement(const char*, const int&, const int&, const hid_t&, float&, std::string&)': | 20:02 |
| kanzure | HDF5_SimResults.cpp:2110: error: cannot convert 'const hsize_t*' to 'const hsize_t**' for argument '4' to 'herr_t H5Sselect_elements(hid_t, H5S_seloper_t, size_t, const hsize_t**)' | 20:02 |
| kanzure | hdf5.h wasn't available so i installed libhdf5-serial-dev .. perhaps that was the wrong choice | 20:02 |
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| klafka | so i'm going to build a collaborative filter in julia | 20:11 |
| kanzure | i <3 nanoengineer's default organic molecules | 20:20 |
| kanzure | amphetamine, cafeine, cocaine, morphine | 20:20 |
| kanzure | *caffeine | 20:20 |
| klafka | lol | 20:24 |
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| kanzure | fooey | 20:35 |
| kanzure | it was fitzsim's fault | 20:36 |
| kanzure | in d5eee582705e4f823d8aa1c33d5ccf07f49c2031 he was "fixing" this error | 20:36 |
| klafka | hey kanzure python is pass by reference right? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | it seems to work on my laptop because- i am guessing- a modern hdf5.h | 20:36 |
| kanzure | klafka: yes but if you want to copy things.. from copy import copy, deepcopy | 20:37 |
| klafka | right | 20:37 |
| klafka | i was trying to make this function side effect free and i'mt rying to decide if i should or not | 20:37 |
| klafka | hmm kanzure can you use 'del' for high level memory management? | 20:50 |
| klafka | e.g. you create a large temporary variable foo and then no longer need it can you del foo to free up memory? | 20:50 |
| klafka | in python | 20:51 |
| kanzure | you can use del on your own yes | 21:01 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: well it's done compiling | 21:02 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: d942d3d remove bends_rcsid and bonds_rcsid from sim/src/newtables.c | 21:02 |
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| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 4b96310 ignore more build objects | 21:19 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: da5eeec these two Makefiles get overwritten via automake | 21:19 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 5d4c84f Revert change to HDF5_SimResults.cpp from d5eee5. | 21:19 |
| klafka | is it bad if a library you are building in python depends on scipy? | 21:28 |
| klafka | that's a fairly standard requirement for numerical computing in python | 21:28 |
| klafka | right? | 21:28 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: are you working on nanoengineer stuff now? | 21:31 |
| nmz787 | README looks good | 21:31 |
| nmz787 | although the anchor/section links aren't correct in the top section | 21:32 |
| nmz787 | oh, nevermind | 21:32 |
| nmz787 | i think my browser just wanted to screw with me | 21:32 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 640e48b even more .gitignore refinements | 21:33 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 4ed98e9 remove old makefiles from cad/src/ and sim/src/ | 21:33 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 6a8f1c5 atombase.c and samevals.c should also be ignored | 21:33 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 4febd2a atombase.c and samevals.c should also be ignored | 21:34 |
| kanzure | klafka: scipy is perfectly fine to use | 21:35 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: i'm fairly lost about ssh -X here.. ssh -X bryan@gnusha.org "DISPLAY=:10 sudo chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot 'python ~/code/nanoengineer/cad/src/main.py'" ? | 21:38 |
| nmz787 | you might have to set the DISPLAY inside the chroot | 21:40 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: http://dgz.dyndns.org/mediawiki/index.php/HOWTO_X11_forwarding_a_chroot | 21:41 |
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| kanzure | "xauth add $(cat /tmp/X)" doesn't work because /tmp is not the same | 21:44 |
| nmz787 | email? | 21:45 |
| kanzure | what? | 21:45 |
| nmz787 | so you don't have any common directories? | 21:45 |
| kanzure | it's chroot.. | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | "Find a carelessly-left hard link that leads outside the jail (though symbolic links don't escape jail, hard links do)." | 21:47 |
| kanzure | _X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6010: Name or service not known | 21:48 |
| nmz787 | # mount --bind /tmp /tmp/chroot/tmp | 21:49 |
| nmz787 | (or wherever your chroot is | 21:49 |
| nmz787 | ) | 21:49 |
| kanzure | actually i don't have mount permission on my vserver anyway | 21:50 |
| nmz787 | hardlink didnt work? | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | wait | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | why can't you just export the magic cookie to a file in the chroot dir | 21:52 |
| nmz787 | then it will be there when you chroot | 21:52 |
| kanzure | i'll just copy the file contents. no big deal. | 21:54 |
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| kanzure | hrmm i guess i will have to figure out how to run X too | 22:01 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: *poke* | 22:06 |
| kanzure | well i guess i need to get xterm forwarding first outside of the chroot | 22:07 |
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| jrayhawk | "i'll just copy the file contents. no big deal." sounds like a fine plan; what's the problem? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: i'm trying to run xterm on gnusha without the chroot, and this isn't working | 22:16 |
| kanzure | i figure this is a good first test case | 22:16 |
| kanzure | bryan@gnusha:~$ echo $DISPLAY gives me localhost:10.0 | 22:17 |
| jrayhawk | xterm doesn't run for me either; don't know why | 22:18 |
| jrayhawk | xlinks2 works fine, though! | 22:18 |
| kanzure | oh there we go | 22:18 |
| kanzure | alright then | 22:18 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: i get, "_X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6011: Name or service not known" | 22:21 |
| kanzure | "xterm Xt error: Can't open display: localhost:11.0" | 22:21 |
| kanzure | inside the chroot | 22:22 |
| jrayhawk | Oh, yeah, /etc/root@gnusha:/# cat /etc/hosts | 22:22 |
| jrayhawk | cat: /etc/hosts: No such file or directory | 22:22 |
| jrayhawk | hurf | 22:22 |
| kanzure | ssh -X bryan@gnusha.org -> xauth list, su, chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot/ /bin/bash, su nanoengineeruser, xauth add $(cat /pasted/file) | 22:22 |
| kanzure | should i add "gnusha" as an entry? | 22:23 |
| jrayhawk | you can use DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:11 or :6011 or something I think? | 22:23 |
| jrayhawk | But yeah, a 127.0.0.1 localhost entry will make your life easier | 22:23 |
| kanzure | Warning: locale not supported by C library, locale unchanged | 22:23 |
| kanzure | xterm: Error 32, errno 2: No such file or directory | 22:23 |
| kanzure | Reason: get_pty: not enough ptys | 22:23 |
| kanzure | xterm Xt error: Can't open display: 127.0.0.1:6011 | 22:24 |
| kanzure | i guess i shouldn't be trying with xterm | 22:24 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, xterm has complicated demands | 22:24 |
| kanzure | xeyes it is! | 22:24 |
| kanzure | there we go | 22:24 |
| kanzure | DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:11 xeyes | 22:24 |
| kanzure | aww i got an exception in python | 22:25 |
| kanzure | X Error: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied) 10 | 22:26 |
| kanzure | Major opcode: 2 (X_ChangeWindowAttributes) | 22:26 |
| kanzure | OSError: glut: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 22:46 |
| kanzure | at | 22:47 |
| kanzure | ok freeglut3 fixes th | 22:47 |
| kanzure | *that | 22:47 |
| kanzure | Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display "127.0.0.1:11.0". | 22:47 |
| kanzure | ok freeglut3 fixes th | 22:50 |
| kanzure | *i get the same error when trying to run glxgears from mesa-util | 22:50 |
| kanzure | "glxinfo -display 127.0.0.1:11" says the same thing about glx missing | 22:52 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, dri will be a bit difficult without /dev/dri | 23:05 |
| jrayhawk | libgl1-mesa-swx11 is probably what you want | 23:06 |
| kanzure | on my localhost? | 23:06 |
| jrayhawk | On the remote host. | 23:06 |
| kanzure | in the chroot? | 23:06 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 23:06 |
| kanzure | it says it will remove "libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-glx libglu1-mesa-dev libglu1-xorg-dev libqt4-dev xlibmesa-gl-dev" | 23:07 |
| jrayhawk | good | 23:10 |
| kanzure | glxgears doesn't seem to work :/ | 23:10 |
| kanzure | oh, no, it's just very slow | 23:10 |
| kanzure | ok cool | 23:10 |
| kanzure | 2 frames in 6.8 seconds = 0.294 FPS | 23:10 |
| kanzure | well it seems to run | 23:12 |
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| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 4a5b6dc two minor changes to get source running on target machines | 23:20 |
| kanzure | ok making a tarball | 23:20 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: thanks for the assist | 23:28 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/nanoengineer-chroot-debootstrap | 23:28 |
| kanzure | (1.2 GB) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/nanoengineer/nanoengineer-chroot.tar.gz | 23:28 |
| kanzure | can someone please confirm that it works for them? | 23:29 |
| kanzure | su nanoengineeruser | 23:30 |
| kanzure | python ~/code/nanoengineer/cad/src/main.py | 23:30 |
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| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 2a02220 chroot creation script (tutorial) | 23:38 |
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| jrayhawk | You might want to apt-get clean before making that tar file | 23:53 |
| kanzure | kl'slsdjjlsdjkl;asd | 23:54 |
| kanzure | eh that only removed a few megabytes | 23:56 |
| --- Log closed Mon Apr 30 00:00:56 2012 | ||
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