| --- Log opened Sat May 05 00:00:01 2012 | ||
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| sylph_mako | Can anyone think of a reason why a post-organic entity would send eratically moving UFOs to flash lights at us? | 00:54 |
|---|---|---|
| sylph_mako | The reason nobody makes anything of the UFO movement is that nobody knows what to make of it. So you, 50 odd people in your town and 2 f16 pilots have seen something so advanced there is no way humans built it, and it was acting like a jackass. | 00:57 |
| sylph_mako | Now what? | 00:57 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 04:18 |
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| ThomasEgi | moornin | 04:45 |
| thyla | [03:54] <sylph_mako> Can anyone think of a reason why a post-organic entity would send eratically moving UFOs to flash lights at us? | 05:02 |
| thyla | They can travel billions of miles through intersteller space. | 05:03 |
| thyla | They have antigravity machines | 05:03 |
| thyla | They can "vanish" in thin air. | 05:03 |
| thyla | But the one thing they can't figure out is how to stop from pointing bright lights at humans. | 05:03 |
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| thyla | Interstellar travel with antigravity machines that can move through air silently... that was the easy part. The hard trick is to stop pointing colorful spotlights at humans. Just can't figure that one out. | 05:06 |
| ThomasEgi | those are probably the best thougths i ever heared about the whole ufo stuff. | 05:13 |
| ThomasEgi | maybe it is like a flea circus. | 05:14 |
| ThomasEgi | they flash light at us, we run away, and get back^ | 05:14 |
| ThomasEgi | maybe entertainment? | 05:14 |
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| kanzure | Request for Information (RFI): Priorities for Outsourcing of Laboratory Procedures (NOT-GM-12-108 | 07:36 |
| kanzure | 4th International Conference on Neuroprosthetic Devices (ICNPD-2012 - Freiburg, Germany, Nov 19th-20th, 2012) | 07:36 |
| kanzure | 34th Annual International Conference of the IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society (EMBC 2012, San Diego, California, Aug 28th-Sept 1st, 2012) | 07:37 |
| kanzure | Neural Interfaces Conference (NIC) 2012 Abstract Submission Deadline May 18th | 07:37 |
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| kanzure | python videos.. http://equallytrue.blogspot.com/2012/05/170-django-conference-videos.html | 07:40 |
| kanzure | well, i guess the scipy videos would be more relevant | 07:41 |
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| delinquentme | http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/17/medical-science-nearing-lightsabre-like-technology-with-latest-breakthrough/ | 11:02 |
| delinquentme | LAZARZ | 11:03 |
| kanzure | eh.. | 11:03 |
| eudoxia | how is a more precise laser anywhere near a "lightsaber" | 11:12 |
| eudoxia | the lightsaber was supposed to be a brute macroscale weapon, not a cutting tool for precision things | 11:13 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: it was an elegant weapon for a more civilized age | 11:17 |
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| kanzure | theirix: howdy! | 11:28 |
| kanzure | which version of osx did you say you are on? | 11:28 |
| kanzure | and do you want to setup a homebrew script? | 11:28 |
| theirix | kanzure: hello | 11:28 |
| theirix | I tried to set up nano engineer on osx 10.6 year ago. maybe you can remember a branch that I pushed to a repo | 11:31 |
| kanzure | yep | 11:31 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-theirix | 11:32 |
| theirix | now i am using 10.7 and it have a few differences with 10.6. Same python, but different kind of default C compiler - clang. Old is gcc, and it can be a main failure point | 11:32 |
| theirix | yes, that one | 11:32 |
| kanzure | ah right.. the switch to clang/llvm | 11:32 |
| theirix | exactly. old CXX was a gcc/llvm, but new CXX is clang and it has a lot of incompatibilities with FSF software (you can check homebrew forums) | 11:33 |
| theirix | homebrew script… it is a good idea but it's a lot harder than a fixed build environment. I think it could be a second step in os x porting. | 11:34 |
| kanzure | what was the status of the 10.6 branch? | 11:36 |
| theirix | build succeeded (in 64-bit mode as I remember) but there were problems with a opengl and qt. NE1 was very unstable and crashed almost immediately. I think it is because of new incompatible versions of PyQt and PyOpengl . I reported these issues in details a year ago, we can check emails. | 11:43 |
| theirix | I can reproduce it on a newer system. Do you have any osx for debugging? | 11:43 |
| kanzure | i have osx 10.7.2 and 10.6.8 | 11:44 |
| kanzure | i also have debian squeeze and winxp sp2 available | 11:44 |
| theirix | okay, have you tried to build NE1 from my branch on 10.6? | 11:49 |
| kanzure | not yet | 11:50 |
| theirix | so you can start with this. stability of that build is a main problem now I think. | 11:52 |
| kanzure | someone compiling on gentoo also experienced pyopengl api errors (something about glePolyCone) | 11:52 |
| kanzure | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1617867 | 11:53 |
| kanzure | someone also committed some fixes for modern ubuntu.. doesn't completely work: | 11:53 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/nmz787/nanoengineer/commits/ubuntu-fixes | 11:53 |
| theirix | gentoo problem looks like library incompatibility too | 11:59 |
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| kanzure | hello docl | 12:00 |
| docl | hi kanzure | 12:00 |
| docl | saw your mention of this channel in #lesswrong | 12:01 |
| kanzure | theirix: yes.. we need to start with a base version and work from there | 12:01 |
| kanzure | for instance.. upgrade the nanoengineer ubuntu 7 chroot to ubuntu 8, then to 9, fixing the problems on the way | 12:01 |
| kanzure | also: there are some but not many unit tests.. i should write more unit tests to make testing easier on each version of ubuntu | 12:01 |
| kanzure | presumably a new version that works on modern ubuntu would work on modern other OSes (except OSX because of clang....) | 12:02 |
| kanzure | s/a new version that works/a new version that compiles | 12:02 |
| theirix | kanzure: good idea. i think differences between all ubuntues are not very large, so we can make a fast progress | 12:03 |
| kanzure | do you have linux somewhere? maybe a vm? | 12:03 |
| kanzure | i have the nanoengineer-chroot installed on gnusha.org and could give you an account to login to it.. it works with X11 forwarding | 12:04 |
| theirix | a lot of virtual boxes for my build system. i can set up a clean ubuntu but without any acceleration. | 12:04 |
| kanzure | i dunno if it works with mesa or not | 12:05 |
| kanzure | i wonder if i should write unit tests or immediately upgrade to ubuntu 8 to see what breaks | 12:06 |
| theirix | virtualbox has a experimental 3d support | 12:08 |
| theirix | don't forget to make debs with stable versions | 12:11 |
| kanzure | heh :) | 12:11 |
| kanzure | oh you mean for each version ? | 12:11 |
| kanzure | i mean.. one deb per ubuntu version? | 12:11 |
| theirix | yes, for 7, 8 etc | 12:12 |
| kanzure | good idea. okay. | 12:12 |
| kanzure | not all the dependencies have .debs.. hmm | 12:13 |
| theirix | of course. so we should package them in deb too. Check debian policy guide about packaging python apps. | 12:15 |
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| kanzure | i think there are deb build scripts in nanoengineer/packaging/ but i haven't tried them yet | 12:17 |
| theirix | i can find some free time this month for updating osx build for 10.7. maybe some problems will automagically disappear. | 12:17 |
| theirix | yes, I noticed them too. I had experience with packaging debs/rpms so probably I can update them. | 12:18 |
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| nmz787_ | Yo, anyone in NYC? I'm looking for something to do | 13:03 |
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| katsmeow-afk | find a way to use the dead biomass of the nyc parks to remove snow in winter? | 13:07 |
| yashgaroth | the preferred term is "hobos" | 13:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | design and sell car elevator structures to straddle streets in congested residential areas in the city? | 13:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: the "lucas_" person who keeps joining is in nyc somewhere.. did a synthetic biology igem team i think | 13:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: how'd the genspace thing go? | 13:08 |
| kanzure | ooh you might enjoy meeting up with perry metzger who should be in the area | 13:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | find a way to compress and combine all the trash in trash trucks, so it leaves the city at night in otherwised unused transportation venues, unseen to the city dwellers | 13:09 |
| kanzure | yeah you should definitely go find perry.. he does lots of molecular nanotechnology, transhumanist stuff | 13:09 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: 212-927-5963 and 160 Cabrini Blvd., #2 New York City, New York 10033 | 13:10 |
| kanzure | just tell him you know him through me | 13:10 |
| nmz787_ | Cool, I'll text him... | 13:10 |
| kanzure | dunno if that's a mobile number | 13:10 |
| klafka | hii | 13:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | funny one cannot text a landline | 13:11 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: some would consider this a feature | 13:11 |
| nmz787_ | Ok... robs talk was pretty good, I'll put my notes up | 13:11 |
| klafka | this seems interesting fyi http://priorknowledge.com/ | 13:11 |
| kanzure | hooray notes.. | 13:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | kansure, i'd consider it an adjuct to voicemail | 13:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | +n | 13:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | mabe ad-junk is more appropriate | 13:13 |
| kanzure | klafka: interesting.. their examples on the front page look horrible though.. where's the actual relevance and metrics and .. bleh | 13:13 |
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| nmz787_ | Rob said he hasnt heard of new synth companies, but maybe we'd get a better responwe from andre hessel vs john c re: desktop synthesizer being a good idea | 13:24 |
| kanzure | okay. we already know andrew/john like dna synthesis a lot. | 13:25 |
| nmz787_ | Thomas.net thomas register | 13:29 |
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| kanzure | http://gowers.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/elseviers-recent-update-to-its-letter-to-the-mathematical-community/ | 14:44 |
| kanzure | "Three interesting recent news stories are an announcement by the Wellcome Trust that it would insist on open access for the research it funds, a statement by Harvard University Library that the current system is unsustainable, and an announcement by the British Government that it has plans to make all taxpayer-funded research available online" | 14:45 |
| kanzure | "(Update: The International Association of Scientific, Technical and Medical Publishers (STM) has put out a press release responding to the British government announcement just mentioned." | 14:45 |
| kanzure | "It’s worth a read. It is clear that the most important word in the press release is “sustainable” and that it means “capable of sustaining the profits of the major publishers”.)" | 14:45 |
| kanzure | http://giridharmadras.blogspot.in/2012/05/open-access.html | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "While Harvard spends around $4 million of its $400 million budget on the library (i.e., 1%), IITs/IISc spends around $2 million per year on its library budget, which is nearly 5-10% of the overall budget." | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "Much of these are wasted on commercial publishers while the cost of many society journals are still manageable." | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "While nearly 80% of the IISc budget is paid to the commercial publisher, less than 40% of the articles published by faculty are in journals published by commercial publishers. A librarian (especially in India) wants to buy the entire package sold by the publisher as the commercial publishers continue to add journals without adding to the content." | 14:46 |
| kanzure | "Recently, in a meeting with the publishers, I was appalled to see Springer quoting nearly $100,000 for subscription to each new IIT. Many new IITs do not have any reasonable number of faculty and the number of full text downloads are minimal (< 1000)." | 14:47 |
| kanzure | "When questioned why this cost was nearly 10 times that offered to an Indian university, they were quick to point out that IITs are funded better and may have higher usage later. This differential pricing (depending on the ability to pay) is ridiculous. This is like that the price of a car is determined depending on my pay and how much I will use the car!" | 14:47 |
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| kanzure | "They argue that having our work published by commercial publishers such as Elsevier lends dignity to the process, and that having to spend a lot of money makes us look important in the eyes of university administration." | 17:16 |
| delinquentme | http://static.andertoons.com/old/img/cartoons/3220.jpg | 17:17 |
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| kanzure | http://metallizer.dk/ "heavy metal name generator" | 18:20 |
| kanzure | "A momentary lapse of vengeance" | 18:20 |
| ENKI-][ | haha | 18:28 |
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| kanzure | hi skorket | 19:45 |
| skorket | hey kanzure | 19:45 |
| skorket | anyone have any familiarity with gmp? | 19:46 |
| kanzure | gimp the editor? | 19:47 |
| yashgaroth | good manufacturing practices? | 19:47 |
| skorket | ah, gnu multi precision | 19:47 |
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| skorket | ok, well, talking to the ubuntu/##c folks. How's everyone doing? | 19:53 |
| kanzure | busy nanoengineering i guess | 19:54 |
| strangewarp | List manipulation in a dataflow lang, also being insane | 19:55 |
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| skorket | how are the micro fluidics coming? | 19:55 |
| kanzure | still going.. ordering parts | 19:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: where are you :P | 19:56 |
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| sylph_mako | strangewarp, dataflow language? I'm intrigued. | 20:37 |
| strangewarp | sylph_mako: Puredata, namely. Designed mainly for audio applications, though people have done crazy graphical stuff with certain extensions. The main property of a dataflow lang is that each command is represented by a box, and they're connected by tethers. | 21:13 |
| strangewarp | Really weird combination of low-level and high-level commands. | 21:14 |
| strangewarp | Bit counterintuitive. Tough learning curve. MAX/MSP is more user-friendly, but it's closed-source and costs big cashmoneys. | 21:15 |
| sylph_mako | strangewarp, I wasn't aware that it was assumed that all dataflow languages are graphical. Though I suppose it'd be bound to be horrible in ascii. | 21:18 |
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| strangewarp | indeed | 21:18 |
| sylph_mako | Could you imagine a way of coding in one that wasn't all clicky clicky, painfully slow? | 21:18 |
| strangewarp | The clicking isn't too bad, in Puredata or (as I understand it) MAX/MSP. Alleviated by keyboard shortcuts, really. Not perfectly though. | 21:19 |
| sylph_mako | I have this plan to make one which is more point with one hand and type with the other. Still not sure how I'll handle variable names when it'll be uncomfortable to have the user typing on more than one half of the keyboard.. | 21:21 |
| strangewarp | There are always chording keyboards, which can be used one-handed with decent speed and full coverage.. | 21:21 |
| strangewarp | Take a bit of time to get used to though. :/ | 21:22 |
| sylph_mako | Chording? But... most users' keyboards can't do that. | 21:22 |
| strangewarp | indeed, there's the rub | 21:22 |
| sylph_mako | And it sure is a rub. | 21:22 |
| sylph_mako | This language already requires a specialist IDE, should I go ahead and add a specialist input device? Hehehehe | 21:23 |
| strangewarp | You could do something weird with only commonly using symbols from one-half of a keyboard... | 21:23 |
| strangewarp | Heh, I'm currently writing a program in a specialist IDE, for two specialist input devices, and two specialist protocols ;) | 21:24 |
| strangewarp | (I'm dressing it up, it's just a MIDI/OSC sequencer thing, nothing scientific) | 21:24 |
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| sylph_mako | So you're making some exotic instrument? | 21:28 |
| strangewarp | Nah, I'm just re-re-rewriting my musical sequencer for a Monome/MIDI setup 8) | 21:29 |
| strangewarp | The exotic instruments are already made... I've got a couple digital-analog synthesizers and a home-built overdrive box | 21:31 |
| strangewarp | And a really cheap shitty drum machine, of a brand that is /supposde/ to be easy to modify, but the company made a hardware revision on their older models, so it's impossible to modify them and you nearly fry them if you try. Which peeved me off so much... | 21:33 |
| strangewarp | ... On their newer models, even | 21:33 |
| strangewarp | It makes me so angry I can't think right ;) | 21:33 |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 06 00:00:02 2012 | ||
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