| --- Log opened Tue May 08 00:00:04 2012 | ||
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| Utopiah | http://www.wired.com/design/2012/05/we-need-version-control-for-real-stuff/ | 04:36 |
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| delinquentme | http://www.wired.com/design/2012/05/we-need-version-control-for-real-stuff/all/1 | 05:04 |
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| kanzure | a little disappointed that they didn't talk with me | 05:30 |
| kanzure | but oh well | 05:31 |
| Utopiah | delinquentme: posted it 27min before ;) | 05:32 |
| kanzure | the first somewhat-obvious solution is to git-for-hardware is to just use git.. which is what i've been doing, see reprap.git, lego.git, etc. | 05:35 |
| kanzure | the second obvious solution is to use all the pre-existing version control software, like solidversion or whatever | 05:35 |
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| delinquentme | I really want to tell this guy @ LBL that they're slow | 05:40 |
| delinquentme | painfully so | 05:40 |
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| delinquentme | http://www.technologyreview.com/article/40245/ << I wanna talk about this for a second | 06:20 |
| delinquentme | So how does one such as ourselves integrate this kind of thinking into our subconscious | 06:20 |
| delinquentme | I mean at the grok / creative subconscious level | 06:21 |
| delinquentme | IE how we understand applications of google search and thus are able to use it in novel uses | 06:21 |
| kanzure | whatever happened to that guy who was making custom mechanical pill dispensers? | 06:25 |
| delinquentme | you mean like a mechanical pharmacist? | 06:36 |
| delinquentme | nnovative employees must buy into a cause. To them, the big picture matters more than the individual who is leading the charge. They prefer to be rewarded with something unconventional and imaginative, and would find a whimsical token of your esteem very meaningful. | 06:40 |
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| JayDugger | Thanks, superkuh. | 06:41 |
| superkuh | ? | 06:41 |
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| kanzure | superkuh: something about JayDugger asking for the sciencemadness.org archives | 06:53 |
| * superkuh nods, we talked just now. | 06:53 | |
| kanzure | oh man. truesaiyanpower.com is available | 06:54 |
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| _Sketch_ | You should fill it with Michael Phelps gifs. | 07:36 |
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| archels | USE ELF GENERATOR TO "CHANNEL" THE BLONDE TYPE OF UFO ENTITIY! | 07:53 |
| delinquentme | archels, blonde elf? | 07:57 |
| delinquentme | share? | 07:57 |
| archels | http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread60055/pg1 | 08:00 |
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| kanzure | http://heikki.zerodistance.org/bitcoin/92797476-FBI-Bitcoin-Report-April-2012.pdf | 08:28 |
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| delinquentme | r/girlsgonebitcoin ? | 08:34 |
| delinquentme | anyone in here work with lab equipment which they think is EXCEPTIONALLY well designed? | 08:36 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, how deep into the mongdb dev are you with the scraper? | 08:59 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: why do you ask | 09:09 |
| kanzure | i have some mongo models somewhere.. why? | 09:10 |
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| delinquentme | just learning some mongo db on rails atm | 09:11 |
| murton | anyone used opencog at all? | 09:14 |
| kanzure | ferrouswheel was writing code for it for a while | 09:15 |
| murton | i see | 09:16 |
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| Utopiah | murton: Id be curious to know if you find anybody who actually used any AGI project | 09:18 |
| murton | well i've installed it and started the agent loop running | 09:20 |
| murton | but it looks like there's more code than what i've gotten working over in the embodiment branch | 09:21 |
| murton | but that branch is useless to me without the Unity 3D client | 09:21 |
| murton | or maybe some code that runs on that client. either way whatever it is hasn't been open sourced yet | 09:21 |
| delinquentme | Light Peak : http://www.myce.com/news/intel-reveals-light-peak-possible-usb-3-0-successor-28589/ | 09:22 |
| kanzure | murton: unity3d is definitely not open source | 09:29 |
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| murton | kanzure: someone needs to open source opencog is basically the story | 09:35 |
| murton | some kind of "open opencog" project | 09:35 |
| Utopiah | arguably that's not opencog, it's like writing a bot for SecondLife or WoW and asking when you want to try it to open those | 09:36 |
| Utopiah | (but I can understand the frustration of not being able to run simple tests) | 09:37 |
| murton | even if you have unity3d you can't run the embodiment server | 09:37 |
| murton | you can run the server but it won't do anything | 09:38 |
| murton | there's some other stuff that they're not releasing because of politics with state funded universities in china or something | 09:38 |
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| kanzure | murton: sorry i was just never really interested in opencog :/ | 09:42 |
| kanzure | there's #opencog i think.. maybe you could go complain to them | 09:42 |
| murton | anyway what's this channel into | 09:42 |
| kanzure | see /topic | 09:43 |
| murton | yeah i was just gonna ask, what's a nootropic | 09:43 |
| kanzure | brain drugs | 09:43 |
| murton | yeah but what's an example of one | 09:43 |
| kanzure | meth | 09:43 |
| murton | how about one with acceptable side effects? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | lots of people seem to like piracetam | 09:44 |
| kanzure | or amphetamines | 09:44 |
| archels | meth has unacceptable side effects? | 09:46 |
| Utopiah | coffee? | 09:46 |
| archels | I guess to the uninitiated we might come across as bunch of drug fiends. | 09:49 |
| murton | i assume i'm initiated just not very knowledgeable | 09:50 |
| archels | Have you been hazed yet? | 09:51 |
| murton | no | 09:52 |
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| murton | i assume we're talking about a meth haze | 09:52 |
| archels | no no, just the channel initiation. Do a dual 5-back task, renounce Ben Goertzel, etc. | 09:52 |
| archels | We can skip all that if at some point you built your own PCR thermal cycler. | 09:53 |
| murton | speaking of drugs, this is a nonproprietary drug that can be manufactured cheaply: http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1089/jpm.2010.0472 | 09:54 |
| archels | Will it improve mitochondria that do not suffer from that disease? | 09:55 |
| archels | Because that would be the point of transhumanism. | 09:56 |
| murton | i'm thinking for cancer | 09:56 |
| kanzure | murton: feel free to bring even /proprietary/ drugs to our attention, because often the equipment to manufacture them is <$100k which is far less than the healthcare costs of e.g. paying millions for rare blood disease treatments | 09:58 |
| murton | kanzure: i'm not big on drugs, this is the one i know of. i have no qualms with open sourcing bad pharma's ill gotten gains | 09:59 |
| murton | i'm more into open source ecology style stuff | 10:00 |
| murton | i consider drugs and biohacking to be a little higher up the tech tree than i am | 10:00 |
| kanzure | what does that mean? you're lower level? | 10:01 |
| murton | i intend to produce a lot of agricultural and industrial equipment first | 10:02 |
| kanzure | murton: http://gnusha.org/skdb might be of interest to you | 10:02 |
| murton | yeah i've seen skdb | 10:02 |
| kanzure | also http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme | 10:02 |
| * kanzure will brb | 10:02 | |
| murton | yaml specifications for describing the interface between hardware componenets | 10:03 |
| kanzure | yes but also technology dependency resolution | 10:03 |
| murton | package management for hardware, right | 10:04 |
| murton | i was thinking along those lines at one point as well | 10:04 |
| murton | i suppose i still am | 10:05 |
| kanzure | well, we definitely need people to look over that code and either destroy it or write better specs etc. | 10:06 |
| murton | yeah | 10:07 |
| murton | well i wouldn't know about that | 10:08 |
| murton | i imagine things being more use case driven | 10:08 |
| murton | so right now i'm looking for projects to build and see what the minimal requirements for making sense of the bill of materials and manufacturing instructions are case by case | 10:09 |
| murton | i expect rdf and intelligent agents to sort most of this stuff out in practice | 10:12 |
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| kanzure | murton: intelligent whatnow | 10:25 |
| kanzure | "ai" is banned in here, you know | 10:25 |
| murton | intelligent agents, i.e. not ai, rule based expert agents | 10:26 |
| murton | ai banned in here, you say? | 10:26 |
| murton | how'd that come about | 10:26 |
| kanzure | i declared it | 10:27 |
| kanzure | also: rule-based systems are okay. just don't be calling that 'agi' or stuff. | 10:27 |
| murton | ia and ai are two different things | 10:27 |
| kanzure | using that 'i' word just isnt helpful here.. just say "someone will compile a big set of heuristics and rules" not "intelligence" | 10:28 |
| murton | ahh yes, the old "just say more" approach to language | 10:28 |
| murton | i actually prefer that | 10:29 |
| kanzure | to answer your question: it came about because everyone kept on saying 'intelligence' without having a definition. even self-proclaimed 'ai experts' have only foggy hints. | 10:29 |
| murton | ahh | 10:29 |
| kanzure | so if you assume that 'intelligence' is an insufficiently defined word, you can work around it and say things like, "the human brain and whatever the human brain is doing" | 10:30 |
| murton | well all i really want is a language in which to describe a hidden markov model of hidden states and associated observations and a flow through which the states pass | 10:30 |
| kanzure | what would you use that to model? | 10:30 |
| murton | then do some bayesian whatchama with partial probabilities to say what state the user is likely in at a given moment and how best to help them | 10:30 |
| murton | which i assume isn't really how humans do it | 10:31 |
| murton | although maybe they do. i don't know | 10:31 |
| murton | i do know that it would work | 10:31 |
| kanzure | hmm i think starting with empirical "Nobody has actually compiled these instructions into a computational format yet" problems is a good place, before you start modeling imaginary variables about humans-thinking-about-building-things | 10:31 |
| murton | for my purposes | 10:31 |
| murton | yeah real world problems are important | 10:32 |
| murton | i'd like to automate a garden | 10:32 |
| kanzure | hydroponics? | 10:33 |
| murton | no. various kinds of composting | 10:33 |
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| kanzure | poptire: are you from austin? | 13:17 |
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| kanzure | http://staceyk.org/diybioworkshop/ | 13:19 |
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| kanzure | Native-sized recombinant spider silk protein produced in metabolically engineered Escherichia coli results in a strong fiber | 13:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/07/19/1003366107.abstract | 13:55 |
| kanzure | (apparently that's on biocurious' journal club's todo list) | 13:55 |
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| kanzure | digivin: whenever you decide to show up again you should look at the biocurious thread about spider silks | 15:17 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | hi | 18:49 |
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| kanzure | http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3944152 | 20:13 |
| kanzure | i've been out done: this guy uses 800 tabs at a time | 20:13 |
| kanzure | i'll just have to try for 2000 tabs | 20:14 |
| AlonzoTG | Ubuntu has this stupid background process that kills my CPU when I open any tabs. =( | 20:15 |
| JayDugger | I'll ask, not "why," though I do wonder, but "how?" What browser reliably supports that without crashing or slowing? How do you find anything in hundreds of tabs? | 20:15 |
| AlonzoTG | So I deleted the offending program form /usr/bin and set the directory entry to permissions 000 to make sure it can't ever be accessed again. | 20:15 |
| AlonzoTG | I can't fathom why people like ubuntu. =( | 20:16 |
| JayDugger | I'll accept "you lack sufficient raw intellect" for the latter, but a simplified explanation would count as a nice gesture. | 20:16 |
| JayDugger | AlonzoTG, I wonder that myself. | 20:16 |
| JayDugger | It takes less fussing and tweaking than gentoo, my prior distribution of choice. | 20:16 |
| JayDugger | Ubuntu's recent releases seem to have, well, drunk some nasty Kool-aid. | 20:17 |
| AlonzoTG | I'm a gentoo user. | 20:17 |
| AlonzoTG | If someone tells me to install linux on a machine, it's going to be a gentoo machine. | 20:17 |
| AlonzoTG | Everything else can go fuck itself. | 20:18 |
| AlonzoTG | (and does) | 20:18 |
| JayDugger | Fair enough...which package manager do you use, portage or paludis or some newer variant? | 20:18 |
| AlonzoTG | Newer variants? | 20:18 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: i use tree-style tabs whenever possible | 20:18 |
| AlonzoTG | I didn't even realize anything other than portage existed. | 20:18 |
| JayDugger | If any exist--I dropped gentoo some time ago. | 20:18 |
| JayDugger | I got tired of chasing ebuilds. | 20:18 |
| kanzure | in opera i like to use the listview of tabs so that i can vertically scroll | 20:18 |
| AlonzoTG | I upgrade mine whenever I feel like it. | 20:19 |
| AlonzoTG | I'm about 30 days out from my last reboot. | 20:19 |
| kanzure | example: http://heybryan.org/shots/2007-09-19.png | 20:19 |
| JayDugger | That four year old screenshot remains accurate? | 20:19 |
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| kanzure | yes actually :) i haven't found a more pleasant way to deal with lots of tabs | 20:20 |
| kanzure | *or haven't built a more pleasant way | 20:20 |
| JayDugger | Why the left side? | 20:20 |
| AlonzoTG | I have about 6 browser windows open, | 20:20 |
| kanzure | scrolling.. if you stuff tabs horizontally then you can't read them | 20:20 |
| AlonzoTG | Because linux sucks dick, I can't run seamonkey on both monitors so I use Chromium on my other monitor. | 20:20 |
| JayDugger | Agreed, but why at the left? I'd tried tree-style tabs on the right side. | 20:20 |
| AlonzoTG | (obviously, dragging crap from one monitor to the other is impossible), | 20:20 |
| JayDugger | AlonzoTG, have you tried using a tiling window manager? | 20:21 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: no particular reason | 20:21 |
| kanzure | AlonzoTG: maybe you just suck at picking a good x server | 20:21 |
| JayDugger | Okay, I wanted to know if I'd missed something. | 20:21 |
| AlonzoTG | This is especially annoying because, for some reason, I can only launch terminals on one monitor, so I had to manually re-direct it to the other screen so that I could use it. | 20:21 |
| AlonzoTG | Linux is totally fucked. | 20:21 |
| AlonzoTG | and nobody cares. | 20:21 |
| JayDugger | That would suck, yes. | 20:21 |
| AlonzoTG | they just want to upload into it. | 20:21 |
| AlonzoTG | and pretend it will work perfectly just as soon as they upload themselves into it. | 20:22 |
| JayDugger | Huh? | 20:22 |
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| JayDugger | You lost me there. | 20:22 |
| AlonzoTG | X.Org X Server 1.12.1 | 20:22 |
| AlonzoTG | I have to give a presentation to one of my two local transhumanist groups this Saturday. =P | 20:23 |
| kanzure | upload what into xserver? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | sorry, you've lost me | 20:23 |
| AlonzoTG | Into a computer that would presumably be running software that's actually obtainable. | 20:24 |
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| kanzure | hi brownies | 20:24 |
| JayDugger | Unfortunately, I must now go to work. | 20:24 |
| brownies | hello | 20:24 |
| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 20:24 |
| kanzure | brownies: tonight we're trying to figure out a better way to manage 2000 tabs | 20:24 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/shots/2007-09-19.png | 20:24 |
| kanzure | someone on HN one-upped me and browses with 800 tabs open | 20:24 |
| kanzure | soo i need to come back and beat this :) | 20:25 |
| AlonzoTG | hmm... so that's how people use forums!!! | 20:25 |
| AlonzoTG | =P | 20:25 |
| kanzure | nobody uses forums.. just xrumer bots | 20:25 |
| AlonzoTG | =\ | 20:25 |
| AlonzoTG | I never heard of xrumer. | 20:25 |
| AlonzoTG | doesn't sound like something I'd waste time trying to make work though. | 20:26 |
| kanzure | xrumer is software that breaks captchas and spams blogs, forums, etc. | 20:26 |
| AlonzoTG | !!! | 20:26 |
| kanzure | it's the primary user of forum software | 20:26 |
| AlonzoTG | OMG, so that's where AGI will come from. | 20:26 |
| kanzure | what? | 20:26 |
| kanzure | i said nothing of the sort? | 20:26 |
| AlonzoTG | kanzure, I'm sick of trying to communicate with you. I've got a lot of other transhumanist things I'd rather be doing right now. | 20:28 |
| kanzure | i don't think any transhumanist has ever claimed that xrumer was AGI | 20:28 |
| brownies | i used to browse with that many tabs | 20:29 |
| brownies | at least, order-of-magnitude that-many | 20:29 |
| brownies | but what's the point? | 20:30 |
| brownies | anyway, OS X introduced this great new feature -- once i open about 100 tabs, the whole system hard crashes. then the tabs are all gone! | 20:30 |
| kanzure | 100 tabs is lame | 20:30 |
| jrayhawk | "20:21 < kanzure> AlonzoTG: maybe you just suck at picking a good x server" no, that's an architectural problem that probably won't get solved within X | 20:33 |
| jrayhawk | at least, assuming he's attempting to run a multi-device setup | 20:33 |
| kanzure | is he running multiple servers? | 20:34 |
| jrayhawk | If he's running multiple devices, inherently yes. | 20:34 |
| AlonzoTG | Yeah, you have two choices when running dual-headed; both suck. | 20:35 |
| AlonzoTG | 1. Have a nice virtual desktop on each screen but they behave like two separate computers. | 20:35 |
| AlonzoTG | Choice 2. combine the two, you can drag stuff between displays but it's just one desktop, so you can't write a note to yourself on one monitor, switch the other monitor, and then cut and paste the note into it. | 20:36 |
| AlonzoTG | all monitors switch or none do. | 20:36 |
| AlonzoTG | I think most people use choice 2 | 20:36 |
| AlonzoTG | but I've been using virtual desktops since windows 3.11 | 20:36 |
| kanzure | what? your complaint is that paste buffers arn't synchronized? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | *aren't | 20:36 |
| AlonzoTG | and there's no reason for me to downgrade to an inferior solution. | 20:36 |
| AlonzoTG | That's not the point. | 20:36 |
| AlonzoTG | I want to easily swap crap on each monitor as if they had nothing to do with each other. | 20:37 |
| AlonzoTG | but still be able to drag stuff from left to right and back without a care. | 20:37 |
| AlonzoTG | Is that too much to ask? | 20:37 |
| kanzure | wasn't xmongrel supposed to do that | 20:37 |
| kanzure | hrm that's not the name.. | 20:37 |
| jrayhawk | I don't actually understand the complaint anymore. Multi-screen setups work fine, including WM hints (with xinerama) and shared buffers. Multi-device setups are screwy as hell. | 20:38 |
| AlonzoTG | I only have one card, | 20:39 |
| AlonzoTG | but it behaves as if it were two completely independent cards. | 20:39 |
| AlonzoTG | =( | 20:39 |
| jrayhawk | What's the card? | 20:39 |
| AlonzoTG | Because I want my cake, (multiple virtual desktops) | 20:39 |
| AlonzoTG | Nvidia 470. | 20:40 |
| AlonzoTG | and to eat it too (drag crap from left to right). | 20:40 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: oh mighty monitor wizard, share with us your conf files | 20:40 |
| jrayhawk | Usually it's easiest to just delete the conf files | 20:40 |
| AlonzoTG | the card defaults to assuming my left monitor is my right. | 20:40 |
| jrayhawk | at least, for single-device setups | 20:40 |
| AlonzoTG | and that I'm a qwerty typist. | 20:41 |
| AlonzoTG | So I need the config files, even though there have been some dramatic changes of late. | 20:41 |
| jrayhawk | AlonzoTG: can you post /var/log/Xorg.0.log somewhere or email it to me at jrayhawk@omgwallhack.org? | 20:41 |
| AlonzoTG | ok | 20:42 |
| jrayhawk | danke | 20:45 |
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| AlonzoTG | sent. | 20:46 |
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| jrayhawk | [ 211.496] (**) Option "Xinerama" "0" | 20:49 |
| jrayhawk | what do you not like about xinerama | 20:49 |
| jrayhawk | oh, no wait, i guess that setting is ignored | 20:50 |
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| kanzure | inflatable origami http://staceyk.org/diybioworkshop/submissions/InflatableOrigami.html | 20:54 |
| kanzure | "the social practices of diybio" http://staceyk.org/diybioworkshop/submissions/DIYbio%20Workshop%20-%20Graham%20Dean.pdf | 20:55 |
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| kanzure | i regret linking to that, actually | 20:57 |
| klafka1 | hey | 20:59 |
| jrayhawk | So, for the binary nvidia driver, the options you care about are Option "TwinView" "1" and Option "NoTwinViewXineramaInfo" "0" | 21:00 |
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| jrayhawk | Though at this point nouveau should also support your card and require no configuration | 21:00 |
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| jrayhawk | Xinerama is an X extension that provide hints to the window manager about where the borders of monitors live within a shared framebuffer. | 21:01 |
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| jrayhawk | At the moment, you have TwinView set to zero, which disables the buffer sharing. | 21:01 |
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| kanzure | AlonzoTG: ping^ | 21:07 |
| jrayhawk | You may want to use Option "Xinerama" "0" in the ServerLayout to make sure that TwinView and Xinerama don't wind up fighting over who gets to provide xinerama hints to the WM, but I'm not familiar enough with the nVidia binary drivers to know if that's actually necessary. | 21:08 |
| AlonzoTG | yeah, xinerama blows donkies. | 21:23 |
| AlonzoTG | I hate it. | 21:23 |
| AlonzoTG | it really really sucks. | 21:23 |
| AlonzoTG | totally crimps my style. | 21:23 |
| AlonzoTG | =( | 21:23 |
| jrayhawk | Uh, it does exactly what you claim to want. | 21:25 |
| AlonzoTG | but I can't drag windows across. | 21:26 |
| AlonzoTG | which blows. | 21:26 |
| AlonzoTG | =( | 21:26 |
| jrayhawk | Yes. Yes you can. That is the entire point of the shared framebuffer. | 21:26 |
| AlonzoTG | but I ***NEED*** the ability to switch the contents of monitors from virtual desktop to virtual desktop independently. | 21:27 |
| jrayhawk | Yes. | 21:27 |
| jrayhawk | Everything you claim to want to do is a thing that Xinerama+a shared framebuffer does. | 21:27 |
| AlonzoTG | That need supercedes all other considerations. | 21:27 |
| AlonzoTG | NO NO NO NO NO. | 21:27 |
| AlonzoTG | Xinerama joins the two monitors, when I switch to desktop 3 on one monitor ALL OTHER MONITORS are simultaneously switched to desktop 3, even if I need it to display what's on desktop 2. | 21:28 |
| jrayhawk | That's a window manager problem. | 21:28 |
| AlonzoTG | no | 21:28 |
| AlonzoTG | it's a problem with X's architecture. | 21:28 |
| AlonzoTG | there's nothing any puny window manager can hope to do about it. =( | 21:28 |
| jrayhawk | No, the window manager *can* do the right thing there, and, in fact, mine does. | 21:29 |
| AlonzoTG | It would be a total hack-job to work around that, it would be like like WINDOWS 95!!!!! | 21:29 |
| kanzure | what just happened there | 21:31 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)&sa=U&ei=GvOpT-ulJYStgQfE6fCnAQ&ved=0CB4QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFpJx_1mspcaJ45JH-9zoDlUkOXKg | 21:31 |
| jrayhawk | whoops, fucking google | 21:31 |
| jrayhawk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) | 21:31 |
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| AlonzoTG | ooops | 21:32 |
| AlonzoTG | You would have to do exactly the same kind of hackjob to fix xinerama that you would to make virtual desktops work at all on Windows 95. | 21:33 |
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| jrayhawk | Xinerama is nothing more than notating what portions of a framebuffer are used by what viewports. | 21:34 |
| jrayhawk | There is very little architecture involved. | 21:34 |
| jrayhawk | Decisions on how those buffers are managed and how virtual desktops are managed are made by the window manager potentially using those notes. | 21:35 |
| AlonzoTG | hmm, I guess that could maybe be made to work, but it would suck mondo ram... | 21:35 |
| AlonzoTG | cuz my monitors are dissimilar. | 21:35 |
| jrayhawk | No, undisplayed virtual desktops do not occupy memory unless you're using a compositing window manager. | 21:36 |
| AlonzoTG | For it to be usable, you'd need to be able to move the viewport of each monitor independently, which I don't think you can. | 21:36 |
| jrayhawk | X11 is for efficiently sharing buffer space. | 21:36 |
| * AlonzoTG has anime that needs watching, and three other transhumanist things to do right now... | 21:36 | |
| jrayhawk | And yes, you can do that, too. That's what the RANDR extension is for, but I'm not sure if that's compatible with the binary nvidia drivers. | 21:37 |
| AlonzoTG | YOu need an EXTENSION for basic, fundamental functionality such as that?!?!?!?! | 21:38 |
| AlonzoTG | (naturally, the extension is named such that no user can find it or figure out how to make it do something useful.) | 21:38 |
| jrayhawk | It's basic and fundamental for todays hardware, for which Wayland is designed and provides in its base specification. It's not basic and fundamental functionality for the hardware X was designed around. | 21:38 |
| jrayhawk | You are resentful that they didn't predict twenty years of hardware development, and had to extend specifications for it. | 21:39 |
| AlonzoTG | I'm flabergasted about how proud they are of the "stability" of the X11 API. | 21:40 |
| jrayhawk | Nobody is proud of X11. | 21:40 |
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| AlonzoTG | The difference between open source losers and neural scientists is that the neural scientists use descriptive names for things. | 21:43 |
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| jrayhawk | I didn't see any acknowledgement of this, so I should probably repeat it more clearly: inactive virtual desktops are not offscreen rendered under a standard X server. X11-the-protocol provides layer masks so clients don't bother rendering anything not being displayed. | 21:46 |
| jrayhawk | If you use a very slow machine or a remote X client, you can watch the client redraw itself when a mask changes. | 21:46 |
| AlonzoTG | I've done that from time to time. | 21:47 |
| jrayhawk | it's actually kinda neat if you're willing to recongnize the utility of efficient buffer sharing under the circumstances for which it is appropriate. | 21:47 |
| kanzure | Copy message 11794 (11786 of 22610) remote:diybio -> local | 21:52 |
| kanzure | Copy message 8913 (8913 of 38616) remote:extropy-chat | 21:52 |
| kanzure | Copy message 11196 (10948 of 15037) remote:enthought | 21:53 |
| kanzure | :/ | 21:53 |
| jrayhawk | you are free to abuse gnusha for mailing list archiving | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | though i suppose for maildirs i should really provide a tail-packing filesystem | 21:54 |
| kanzure | yes i was hoping to do a public release of the diybio archive | 21:54 |
| kanzure | once i filter out all the crap i labeled as 'diybio' that was sent just to me privately | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | AlonzoTG: http://blip.tv/file/get/Linuxconfau-XAndTheFutureOfLinuxGraphics549.ogv is a helpful look at the discrepency between X11 and modern hardware and what's being done about it | 22:03 |
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| kanzure | "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." | 22:06 |
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| Utopiah | http://andrewmcafee.org/2012/05/flops-are-not-intelligence-the-type-error-of-the-singularity/ | 22:53 |
| kanzure | meh all of that can be avoided if you admit that neither of those people have reasonable definitions of intelligene | 23:01 |
| kanzure | *intelligence | 23:01 |
| kanzure | with a c :/ | 23:01 |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 09 00:00:05 2012 | ||
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