| --- Log opened Wed Jun 27 00:00:52 2012 | ||
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| archels | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=f4Jxx7Dp | 02:16 |
|---|---|---|
| archels | "Stealthy virus that robs years of life could be beaten" | 02:16 |
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| chido | anyone around? | 07:14 |
| delinquentme | HIO! | 07:17 |
| delinquentme | noep just meh | 07:17 |
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| @kanzure | geeze you guys are boring | 08:35 |
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| @kanzure | precision quadrotor flying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseTX_rW3uM#t=60 | 08:43 |
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| mutagen | as long as it will carry guns, i guess we can find a use for it | 08:46 |
| @kanzure | http://www.kurzweilai.net/an-interview-with-ed-boyden (with apologies for linking to kurzweilai.net) | 08:49 |
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| AdrianG | why apologies | 09:27 |
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| @kanzure | imagej is nih? | 10:56 |
| @kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/575960623/ardusat-your-arduino-experiment-in-space | 10:58 |
| nmz787 | yes | 10:58 |
| nmz787 | ever hear of these folks : http://www.sciencehouse.com/funded-companies.html | 10:58 |
| nmz787 | imagej has a new upcoming version in dev i believe | 10:59 |
| @kanzure | i know of science house via jenny listman and ellen jorgensen | 11:00 |
| @kanzure | also i seem to know Gabi de Wit <gabi@sciencehouse.com> and James Jorasch <james@sciencehouse.com> | 11:00 |
| nmz787 | hm | 11:01 |
| nmz787 | good memories or null emotion? | 11:02 |
| @kanzure | i don't have much info / haven't talked with them extensively. | 11:02 |
| nmz787 | so both nycresistor and genspace have a member petition/invite process | 11:03 |
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| nmz787 | and no one is at either place today | 11:03 |
| nmz787 | so nyc is kind of dull for me here :/ | 11:03 |
| @kanzure | i think all the genspace people are at the ted thing | 11:04 |
| @kanzure | in their "castle" | 11:04 |
| @kanzure | (i hear it's at a castle) | 11:04 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 11:04 |
| nmz787 | cornell still hasn't figured out if they have funding to hire me... and i can't get comfortable to sit down and code in this apt | 11:05 |
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| @kanzure | 10:29 -!- ruphos [~ruphos@diybiowarfare.com] has joined #diybio | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | quite a hostname. | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | splicer: diybiotech.org redirects to you? | 11:22 |
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| nmz787 | diybiowarfare??? doesn't sound too nice | 11:36 |
| @kanzure | no. i think that's ruphos from the mailing list. | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | this would be cool to go to, except its pretty darn expensive http://toorcamp.org/registration | 11:42 |
| nmz787 | i guess it keeps out the riff raff | 11:42 |
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| @kanzure | hi ruphos | 11:46 |
| @kanzure | nothing wrong with efnet | 11:47 |
| @kanzure | freenode seems to host the vast majority of channels for developer projects | 11:47 |
| ruphos | I have noticed that | 11:47 |
| @kanzure | that's about the only reason it is interesting, i think | 11:47 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by ChanServ | 11:48 | |
| kanzure | ruphos: so what's up with the diybiowarfare.com domain | 11:50 |
| ruphos | hah it was a joke domain | 11:51 |
| ruphos | it was suggested by a navy friend to use for LAB | 11:52 |
| kanzure | it's a very fine line between "informant" and "terrorist" | 11:52 |
| kanzure | ah i see | 11:52 |
| ruphos | name.com has a hilariously awful related-name suggestion feature as well | 11:53 |
| ruphos | which led me to also purchasing diybiojihad.com | 11:53 |
| ruphos | I've been debating a switch to that one | 11:53 |
| kanzure | were you at the fbi workshop recently? | 11:53 |
| ruphos | I was not, couldn't get the time off from work | 11:53 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth had the wonderful plan to learn some arabic | 11:53 |
| yashgaroth | just enough | 11:54 |
| kanzure | although he didn't have the follow-through on that one. no diy-biojihad for us :( | 11:54 |
| ruphos | aww | 11:54 |
| yashgaroth | yeah they didn't seem the humorous types, didn't want to risk prison :/ | 11:54 |
| kanzure | nmz787 said that nathan head was armed? | 11:54 |
| ruphos | nice | 11:55 |
| yashgaroth | how did he know? | 11:55 |
| kanzure | open coat jacket or something? ask him | 11:55 |
| yashgaroth | I'll bet you those 'local agents' were | 11:55 |
| ruphos | when we were still set up at nsl and had our local feds visit, they noticed a lock picking poster up on the wall and commented about it having an arabic section on it | 11:55 |
| yashgaroth | langton had a commendable number of jihadi posters | 11:57 |
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| kanzure | oh right.. ruphos is with the la group | 11:57 |
| kanzure | i'm a big fan :P | 11:57 |
| ruphos | head scapegoat in chief | 11:58 |
| ruphos | oh, another instance of name.com's amazing related domain feature: when registering biohackers.la it suggested I might also be interested in biofag.com | 11:58 |
| kanzure | so the last update i had from your group was uh.. | 11:59 |
| kanzure | cory's stuff i guess? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/fbi-diybio-2011/2011-07-13.txt | 11:59 |
| kanzure | and the romie mentioning some things.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/fbi-diybio-2012/romie-littrell.txt | 11:59 |
| kanzure | you guys were uh.. going to... ah, going to do a kickstarter i think? | 11:59 |
| ruphos | romie and dan were at the bay area thing | 11:59 |
| kanzure | *and then | 11:59 |
| ruphos | you'd be amazed at just how long it can take to make a damn kickstarter video | 12:00 |
| kanzure | well, the video is the most important part | 12:00 |
| kanzure | i remember you guys were filming some of that back in 2010-2011 | 12:00 |
| ruphos | attempts first started then | 12:01 |
| ruphos | but the video was terrible | 12:01 |
| ruphos | then there was a second attempt, but it got put on a back burner due to scheduling and tech issues | 12:01 |
| ruphos | the urgency wasn't really there until we got the "we got a laser cutter and need the corner" notice from nsl | 12:02 |
| kanzure | lame.. LAB is way cooler than some lame laser cutter | 12:03 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ooh | 12:03 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I wonder if you could tack a cutting laser onto a cricut | 12:03 |
| ruphos | 90W laser cutter is pretty slick though | 12:04 |
| ruphos | and they're already working on the upgrade to 120W | 12:04 |
| kanzure | ah.. mine is only 30W. so yeah, 90W is nice. | 12:04 |
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| delinquentme | wait open source laser cutter for kickstarter? | 12:26 |
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| delinquentme | you guys know about lasersaur right? | 12:27 |
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| kanzure | yes we know about lasersaur | 12:29 |
| kanzure | lasersaur did a kickstarter project, then took years to not produce anything | 12:29 |
| kanzure | everyone was pretty grumpy about that | 12:29 |
| kanzure | autopsy reports of 140 centenarians http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285737 | 12:31 |
| kanzure | "The autopsy findings of 140 centenarians (21 males and 119 females) of the age range of 100-109 years were compared to those of 96 elderly subjects (14 males and 82 females) of the age range of 75-95 years." | 12:32 |
| yashgaroth | yay I just learned a new word, longevous | 12:33 |
| kanzure | "a biologist's dictionary".... "longevate" | 12:33 |
| kanzure | extrudate.. i am definitely going to blame jmil for that one | 12:33 |
| nmz787 | does portland have a hackerspace? | 12:41 |
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| jmil | kanzure: lol | 12:42 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, I think there is a lasersaur at CMU | 12:48 |
| delinquentme | albeit in one of the arts departments | 12:48 |
| delinquentme | IDK | 12:48 |
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| nmz787 | delinquentme: too bad we didn't get to hang out | 12:53 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ | 12:57 |
| delinquentme | yeah man | 12:57 |
| delinquentme | its not often that I'm around people I can really nerd out with | 12:57 |
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| nmz787 | i get bored in most places anymore because i dont know ppl there | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | i know almost no one in pburgh except my fam anymore | 13:01 |
| jmil | kanzure: extrudate is from an OLD paper. Cells spreading on a "micro-extrudate carpet". albrecht-buehler, circa 1964 :D | 13:02 |
| nmz787 | jmil: what does that even mean? | 13:05 |
| ruphos | kanzure: http://charliex2.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/nsl-gets-a-laser-cutter/ | 13:11 |
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| jmil | nmz787 extruded material… the cells were spreading on gold but not on glass so albrecht-buehler hypothesized that cells may be secreting protein matrix that attached to the gold or glass. so he called it micro-extrudate carpet | 13:13 |
| jmil | that's what extrudate reminds me of | 13:13 |
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| kanzure | hi juul | 13:22 |
| Juul | hi kanzure | 13:22 |
| nmz787 | ever hear of this coworking space? http://dogpatchlabs.com/dogpatch-residents/ | 13:22 |
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| nmz787 | Glucose deprivation activates feedback loop that kills cancer cells: study | 13:39 |
| nmz787 | http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-06-glucose-deprivation-feedback-loop-cancer.html | 13:39 |
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| delinquentme | Compared to normal cells, cancer cells have a prodigious appetite for glucose | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | ^^ COOL! | 13:47 |
| nmz787 | how do you find out who owns a google group? | 13:49 |
| yashgaroth | members -> sort by join date? | 13:49 |
| kanzure | the new google groups interface doesn't have the members list or about list | 13:50 |
| yashgaroth | oh snap I gotta upgrade | 13:50 |
| kanzure | no don't | 13:50 |
| kanzure | old one was more useful | 13:50 |
| kanzure | the member list looks like this now :/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!members/diybio | 13:51 |
| yashgaroth | still looks normal to me :P | 13:51 |
| kanzure | it used to show other details like "posts per month", "most active contributors", etc. | 13:52 |
| kanzure | e.g. http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/about | 13:55 |
| yashgaroth | the new one still has the member list though? upper right by the settings button? | 13:56 |
| yashgaroth | might depend on the specific group I suppose | 13:57 |
| kanzure | ah right. they must have added that recently. | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | i was talking about diybioNYC | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | it told me my post has to be approved | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | which is pretty bogus | 13:57 |
| ruphos | you got moderated | 13:57 |
| yashgaroth | that doesn't seem very DIY...maybe they had some loonies who kept posting | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | unless its because i just joined | 13:58 |
| nmz787 | but it told me that after i sent a message | 13:58 |
| nmz787 | sooo | 13:58 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 13:58 |
| nmz787 | bogus | 13:58 |
| kanzure | nmz787: yeah diybio-nyc moderates their list.. i don't think anyone has posted to it in forever. they tend to be hush-hush. | 13:59 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: no it was moderated from the beginning. although, maybe i count as the loony that keeps posting. | 13:59 |
| nmz787 | i'll create my own NYC list | 13:59 |
| nmz787 | shit | 13:59 |
| kanzure | haha | 13:59 |
| nmz787 | or just send to the main one | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "really-truly-diy-nyc" | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "not-gonna-sell-out-to-genspace-nyc" | 13:59 |
| yashgaroth | based on my e-detective skillz, sung won lim is the owner | 14:00 |
| nmz787 | well posted to main diybio list | 14:02 |
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| nmz787 | where is the langton labs of nyc? | 14:05 |
| brownies | is there one? | 14:05 |
| nmz787 | i'd have to assume so | 14:06 |
| nmz787 | 10 million people here | 14:06 |
| nmz787 | if there isn't, i'd really feel bad about human society | 14:07 |
| yashgaroth | are there generally places like langton outside of SF? | 14:07 |
| nmz787 | i've been to a place in LA | 14:07 |
| nmz787 | it wasnt scientists, but feynman went there for art lessons and to party | 14:08 |
| nmz787 | was a ranch tho not a warehouse | 14:08 |
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| Juul | what's a good dedicated server provider in the u.s. ? | 14:13 |
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| ruphos | vps or do you want your own box? | 14:14 |
| Juul | own box | 14:15 |
| @fenn | ah crap he left | 14:17 |
| yashgaroth | oh hey fenn what kind of magnesium are you using? I was thinking of trying it out | 14:17 |
| ruphos | colo will probably be your best choice, if you're near a city | 14:19 |
| Juul | hrm, I don't want the trouble of buying and setting up a server | 14:19 |
| yashgaroth | like, colloidal? | 14:19 |
| ruphos | I'm sure there are places that will lease you hardware as well, but it'll likely be pricey | 14:20 |
| ruphos | what do you want to use it for? calculation, general webserver, etc? | 14:20 |
| @fenn | yashgaroth: citrate | 14:20 |
| yashgaroth | ah okay | 14:20 |
| @fenn | also i substitute dead sea salt in my salt shaker (50% dead, 50% regular sea salt) | 14:20 |
| Juul | ruphos, some calculation and a web app | 14:21 |
| @fenn | i dissolve 1 gram MgO in 100ml lemon juice | 14:21 |
| @fenn | let sit overnight | 14:21 |
| ruphos | is there a particular reason you want your own hardware? or just want to get good resources? | 14:21 |
| ruphos | you can do a lot with ec2 | 14:22 |
| ruphos | or even linode | 14:22 |
| Juul | hm, i guess I just need at least two cores in one machine | 14:22 |
| yashgaroth | and you drink 1 gram a day? | 14:23 |
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| @fenn | something like that | 14:23 |
| ruphos | you can use ec2, have a smallish instance set up to run the web app, and spin up / down more resource intensive instances on demand | 14:23 |
| ruphos | so you're not even paying for the uptime when they're not in use | 14:24 |
| @fenn | 2 tbsp with each meal, (100mg magnesium per tbsp) | 14:24 |
| yashgaroth | is it still having a noticeable effect? | 14:25 |
| @fenn | turns out magnesium threonate is not an amino acid chelate of threonine. it's some weird sugar i've never heard of called threose | 14:25 |
| @fenn | so i dunno what to do with this 500 grams of threonine : | 14:25 |
| @fenn | yes it's still noticeable | 14:25 |
| yashgaroth | aight I'll give it a try soon then | 14:25 |
| Juul | ruphos, yeah, that'd require some more code-writing on my part though | 14:25 |
| ruphos | true | 14:26 |
| * fenn is sitting in golden gate park, lucky wifi find | 14:26 | |
| @fenn | i've been trying my hand at aircrack-ng with no luck | 14:27 |
| ThomasEgi | no open wifi networks around? | 14:27 |
| @fenn | takes a while to get any data | 14:27 |
| ThomasEgi | i mean.. arent there living like thousands of people there? | 14:27 |
| @fenn | most networks require a password | 14:27 |
| ruphos | Juul: http://cheapvpsreview.com/multi-core/ has some options | 14:28 |
| ThomasEgi | based on probability i have a real hard time to imagine mankind growing intelligent enough to no longer set up a single unprotected wifi. | 14:28 |
| ThomasEgi | that would almost restore my faith in humanity | 14:28 |
| yashgaroth | it is san francisco | 14:29 |
| delinquentme | fenn http://www.uberreview.com/2008/04/wi-fi-predator-a-diy-long-range-wi-fi-snooper.htm | 14:29 |
| delinquentme | might halp :D | 14:29 |
| ruphos | pfft. get a pringles can. | 14:30 |
| ruphos | unless that is the pringles can version | 14:30 |
| ruphos | this one has a fancy tripod http://www.instructables.com/id/WiFi-Cantenna-without-pigtail/ | 14:32 |
| @fenn | i think this is what i'm looking for: http://www.phenoelit.org/dpl/dpl.html (router default password list) | 14:33 |
| @fenn | comcomcom | 14:34 |
| @fenn | actually this doesn't work, nevermind | 14:34 |
| Juul | ruphos, thanks | 14:35 |
| ruphos | np. unless you feel like being extremely paranoid about hardware security and bringing your own, vps is going to be the most cost effective and simple solution | 14:39 |
| kanzure | dunno about cost effective, but ec2 is worth trying at least once | 14:42 |
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| ruphos | I suppose it depends on usage, but when you factor in hardware maintenance, failure rates and me-time cost I think it's worth it | 14:44 |
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| @fenn | "ByteLight has developed an optical communications system embedded within LED lighting." someone tell me again why IrDA failed? | 14:51 |
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| ThomasEgi | because it was superseeded. | 14:58 |
| ThomasEgi | optical communication does have some pretty neat advantages. | 14:59 |
| ThomasEgi | i am building optical communication systems myself as a hobby. there are a wide range of applications for it. | 15:00 |
| ThomasEgi | IrDA mainly failed because it didnt match the consumers needs. that doesn't mean it is useless. | 15:00 |
| chido | question: I found a plastic bottle in my lab containing a yellowish powdery substance that everyone claims is sulphur, is there a (safe) way to validate that assumption? | 15:04 |
| ThomasEgi | well in case it is sulfur there are safe procedures :D | 15:05 |
| ruphos | I suggest licking it | 15:05 |
| kanzure | there's probably a few simple reactions you could try | 15:05 |
| ThomasEgi | or you could heat it up and see the melting point | 15:06 |
| kanzure | does it burn blue? | 15:06 |
| ThomasEgi | or you could try to make a sollution from it and grow crystals | 15:06 |
| kanzure | the solution/crystal plan is probably safer than burning it | 15:06 |
| ThomasEgi | it doesnt solve in water tho | 15:06 |
| ThomasEgi | you could also try to do spectral analysis of it | 15:07 |
| chido | I really need to implement some sort of protocol for this, people dropping by casually leaving unmarked bottles of unknown content on the table are not acceptable | 15:07 |
| chido | I'll try solution crystal | 15:07 |
| kanzure | 1) kill the people 2) problem solved? | 15:07 |
| kanzure | oh. | 15:07 |
| ThomasEgi | i would go with burning a bit of it | 15:07 |
| chido | maybe outside with a long stick | 15:07 |
| ThomasEgi | growing crystals simply has too many unknown variables | 15:07 |
| ThomasEgi | or under a ventilated desk | 15:07 |
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| chido | if I had one | 15:08 |
| ThomasEgi | then do it outside | 15:08 |
| chido | which I don't, unfortunately | 15:08 |
| ThomasEgi | guess safest way would be to use a mass spectrometer | 15:08 |
| chido | how much is a safe sample? | 15:08 |
| ThomasEgi | but you probably dont have access to one | 15:08 |
| @fenn | mix it with charcoal and potassium nitrate and see if it explodes | 15:09 |
| chido | I've only ever seen one once and I doubt they'd let me use it for this | 15:09 |
| ThomasEgi | well then. just burn a tiny bit of it. it should burn with a blue frame | 15:09 |
| ThomasEgi | flame | 15:09 |
| chido | fenn, I think I actually have both of those, but I am not going to do that :) | 15:09 |
| @fenn | also, it should smell like sulfur, though i dont generally recommend snorting random lab reagents | 15:09 |
| ThomasEgi | you could also try to meassure the density | 15:09 |
| kanzure | honestly, if you don't know what it is and what purity it is, or its origin/history, then it's probably not as useful | 15:10 |
| kanzure | my suggestio: have lots of sharpies and stickers/notes everywhere to label things with. | 15:10 |
| kanzure | *suggestion | 15:10 |
| chido | kanzure: yeah but to safely dispose of it, I need to know what it is | 15:10 |
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| kanzure | anyone who does not label things should be shot | 15:10 |
| kanzure | perhaps with a paintball gun or something | 15:10 |
| chido | kanzure: agreed, I'm working on a lab rules sheet and that will be on there right ontop | 15:11 |
| ThomasEgi | whoever leaves unlabeld stuff has to snort some of it next time he comes again | 15:11 |
| chido | I'm having trouble tracing back who did it | 15:12 |
| kanzure | was it you? | 15:12 |
| chido | I'm pretty sure it wasn't me | 15:12 |
| @fenn | it were a gnome | 15:16 |
| @fenn | this crackhead just came up and tried to light a soaking wet cigarette with my lighter, then she dropped her drug-smuggling plushy fish in the road | 15:18 |
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| @fenn | so now i'm the proud owner of a dirty plush fish | 15:18 |
| kanzure | fenn it's 2012 why is there no electronics github thing | 15:19 |
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| kanzure | upverter really sucks and nobody uses it | 15:20 |
| kanzure | there's not even an 'electronics wikipedia' thing | 15:20 |
| @fenn | there is, i forget the name though | 15:21 |
| @fenn | opencircuits? it was associated with sparkfun at one point | 15:21 |
| chido | fenn: is the fish up for adoption? | 15:22 |
| @fenn | erm. it is to be used only for smuggling drugs | 15:23 |
| Juul | kanzure, maybe we should start a list of critical resources that should exist but don't | 15:23 |
| Juul | btw, is anyone here involved with 100 year star ship? | 15:24 |
| Juul | i was at the SETI conference recently and I liked the cut of their jib | 15:24 |
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| ruphos | w/in 2 | 15:47 |
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| kanzure | Juul: sure. | 15:53 |
| kanzure | "Jason interviews Cathal Garvey about the exciting new field of synthetic | 15:54 |
| kanzure | biology, its amateur cousin DIYbio and his new startup, Glowbiotics" | 15:54 |
| kanzure | what happened to indiebiotech inc? | 15:54 |
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| kanzure | nmz787_: fenn was looking for you | 15:57 |
| nmz787_ | Wht he say | 15:58 |
| kanzure | well he seems to be around now | 15:58 |
| nmz787_ | Went to an owasp meeting | 15:58 |
| nmz787_ | Still herr | 15:58 |
| nmz787_ | Here | 15:58 |
| nmz787_ | Fenn? | 15:59 |
| @fenn | oh. i just wanted to point you to http://kontraptionist.com and friends | 16:04 |
| @fenn | from our sister camp at burning man | 16:04 |
| @fenn | don't actually know where anything is in nyc | 16:04 |
| @fenn | andy (master kontraptionist) was grumbling about finding people to work in his shop? if you like cnc bitch work | 16:05 |
| @fenn | i think he wants to move to sf though | 16:05 |
| nmz787_ | Cool | 16:07 |
| nmz787_ | I'll give a call tomorrow | 16:07 |
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| @fenn | quadrotor and tai chi is my desktop background | 16:13 |
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| Jenda` | chido: When you heat it, sulphur should melt at arount 120C and create brown "gum" when poured to water. | 16:15 |
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| nmz787_ | Jenda whats that comment in relation to? | 16:22 |
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| kanzure | nmz787_: chido was trying to identify whether or not her mystery material was sulphur | 16:25 |
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| nmz787_ | Ahh | 16:25 |
| @fenn | explosives dont care if they're contaminated | 16:26 |
| @fenn | just sayin | 16:26 |
| kanzure | but what if she wasn't using it as an explosive? | 16:26 |
| @fenn | well now she has to | 16:26 |
| @fenn | there's no other use for it | 16:26 |
| kanzure | heh well ok | 16:26 |
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| kanzure | "advanced lip reading 501" | 16:45 |
| nmz787_ | Django UNUSABLE_PASSWORDs default to an ! Instead of throwing an error | 16:47 |
| kanzure | that doesn't sound true to me | 16:47 |
| Juul | "I don't even see the parentheses anymore. All I see is recursion, iteration, continuation." | 16:48 |
| kanzure | "all i see are bugs and syntax errors and bad architecture" | 16:50 |
| Juul | hackers gonna hack | 16:52 |
| kanzure | http://blog.ted.com/2012/06/26/do-it-yourself-biotech-ellen-jorgensen-at-tedglobal-2012/ | 16:53 |
| kanzure | hrm she seems to have a public community lab bent | 16:54 |
| kanzure | "But what about the dark side? What about biosafety, biosecurity? " | 16:54 |
| kanzure | biosafety isn't dark :( | 16:54 |
| Juul | poor wording | 16:55 |
| kanzure | biosecurity is also not dark | 16:55 |
| kanzure | i think they mean biooffense or something | 16:56 |
| Juul | or "the lack of" biosafety and biosecurity | 16:56 |
| kanzure | so, shaking your head and saying "it's unlikely" isn't very helpful | 16:56 |
| ruphos | see also: department of defense vs. war department | 16:56 |
| kanzure | people die every year from transmitted diseases already (regardless of diybio's existence) | 16:56 |
| kanzure | i think people are complacent with that though :( | 16:57 |
| Juul | complacent with wording? or with transmitted diseases? | 16:57 |
| kanzure | with transmitted diseases | 16:57 |
| Juul | in what sense are they complacent? | 16:57 |
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| kanzure | they bring up amateur biologists as the source for deadly plagues and outbreaks | 16:58 |
| kanzure | but there's already a huge natural level of that which doesn't get the same amount of attention or concern | 16:58 |
| kanzure | the "potential" problems they are worrying about are problems that already exist, and blaming diybio isn't going to fix http://google.org/flutrends/ | 16:59 |
| Juul | yeah. it seems that humans have a bias towards worrying about threats caused by human action over threats caused by a lack of human action | 16:59 |
| nmz787_ | As i saidb2 weeksbl ago, why isnt HIV on the select agent list | 16:59 |
| Juul | at least current western society | 17:00 |
| yashgaroth | hiv is hard to weaponize | 17:00 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: haha.. STDs should be controlled materials? :P | 17:00 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: sleep with someone? | 17:00 |
| yashgaroth | if you want to give someone hiv, get a blood sample from a crackhead | 17:00 |
| kanzure | *a good crackhead | 17:00 |
| nmz787_ | Some prob think Hiv was engineered | 17:01 |
| yashgaroth | unless you're into some rather kinky shit, it's hard to transmit sexually anyway | 17:01 |
| kanzure | i'm not particularly interested in controlled hiv spread- i know that's unreasonable- but it looks like these audiences complaining about "dark bio" don't understand that. | 17:01 |
| nmz787_ | Or mutated, or the result of gays sleeping with bestiality | 17:01 |
| nmz787_ | I dobt believe that btw | 17:01 |
| Juul | yashgaroth, you're condemning big portions of the african population to kinkyness | 17:01 |
| kanzure | (why would it be gay/beast instead of just anyone/beast?) | 17:02 |
| kanzure | Juul: haha | 17:02 |
| yashgaroth | they seem to be condemning themselves | 17:02 |
| nmz787_ | Well sure | 17:02 |
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| Juul | kanzure, have you had any interactions with 100 year star ship? I remember you talking about star seeds which seems relevant. | 17:03 |
| kanzure | no i haven't | 17:03 |
| Juul | might be a way to get funding for such things as skdb? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | ah, possibly.. funding isn't the problem at the moment, in my opinion | 17:05 |
| Juul | ok | 17:05 |
| kanzure | skdb has a lot of architecture issues that were never figured out | 17:05 |
| kanzure | (mostly about package management and how to do that for hardware) | 17:05 |
| Juul | ok | 17:06 |
| @fenn | i wouldnt mind some funding | 17:06 |
| kanzure | then i went down a CAD hole, thingiverse-github-clone hole, and a few other things | 17:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: i'm not convinced of that | 17:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: you don't sound like you want to do anything? but i could be wrong | 17:07 |
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| kanzure | Juul: without CAD, skdb is sorta useless in a few ways. but a simpler level- like technology dependency trees- are still somewhat useful. | 17:08 |
| @fenn | it's just hard to draw inferences when there's no data | 17:08 |
| @fenn | i mean, there are some poorly documented open hardware projects out there, but for the most part the designs are inaccessible to computers | 17:09 |
| kanzure | and it's useless without verification, working prototypes, etc. | 17:09 |
| kanzure | s/and it's/and those interfaces | 17:09 |
| kanzure | *are | 17:09 |
| @fenn | not totally useless, but still it'd be nice to be able to simulate something | 17:10 |
| @fenn | then you just ask questions by running simulations | 17:10 |
| @fenn | does tab A fit into slot B? run a simulation | 17:10 |
| @fenn | does it still work at 100 C ambient temperature? run a simulation | 17:10 |
| * fenn goes off to absorb some photons | 17:11 | |
| kanzure | fenn: noo wait. you still haven't argued to me that you actually want to build things or something. | 17:12 |
| Juul | kanzure, ok, so why not throw some money at the problem and see what comes out? | 17:12 |
| kanzure | which problem? | 17:12 |
| nmz787_ | Mmmmm money | 17:12 |
| Juul | the problem of designing something that can become a storage architecture for everything needed for a starseed | 17:13 |
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| kanzure | i don't think anyone is an expert at that | 17:13 |
| nmz787_ | Wat is hope conference? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | i think that makes us the most qualified people to design that. | 17:13 |
| Juul | nmz787_, hackers on planet earth | 17:14 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: security conference. | 17:14 |
| Juul | hm, some of it is security, a lot of it is not. | 17:14 |
| kanzure | Juul: it's been years in here and nobody has reviewed our architecture for skdb or suggested something better | 17:14 |
| Juul | there is a panel by mitch altman about DARPA funding in the hacker community this year | 17:14 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/skdb/ | 17:14 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/skdb/package_spec.html | 17:14 |
| Juul | kanzure, the thing is that our time is limited | 17:15 |
| Juul | maybe spending some time to set up a separately funded project with a manager and a group of programmers might result in something good? | 17:16 |
| kanzure | if i can't write a full spec, how would they be any better than my programming performance? | 17:17 |
| kanzure | delegation is really useful when you can define the problem or find someone who knows the problem already | 17:17 |
| kanzure | for instance, let's specifically talk about CAD | 17:17 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/esolid/esolid.py | 17:17 |
| kanzure | unfortunately, it seems nobody in the open source community knows how to implement this sort of system | 17:18 |
| kanzure | (with the exception of some of the haskell folks, but i'm not 100% convinced that an implicit cad library in haskell would make a usable cad kernel) | 17:18 |
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| kanzure | i'm just not sure that throwing money at random people will legitimately solve these problems | 17:19 |
| ruphos | it will totally work if I'm one of the people | 17:19 |
| ruphos | promise | 17:19 |
| Juul | ok, so why not get some people who don't know how to implement this to explore the problem for a while. Find some people who are motivated and let them at it for a while. These are long term goals after all. | 17:19 |
| kanzure | "explore the problem" ? | 17:20 |
| kanzure | then you'll get shit like blender and openscad :( | 17:20 |
| kanzure | but maybe you can elaborate.. what is your plan exactly? | 17:20 |
| nmz787_ | What about the prog makerbot uses | 17:20 |
| kanzure | openscad? | 17:20 |
| kanzure | slic3r? | 17:21 |
| nmz787_ | The one you open the stl file in | 17:21 |
| kanzure | yeah, stl isn't cad | 17:21 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cadfaq | 17:21 |
| kanzure | huh i don't seem to mention pythonocc on that page.. it's some wrappers for opencascade in python. opencascade is the same thing that heekscad and freecad use. | 17:23 |
| Juul | I don't know very much about CAD, so I will be much worse at defining the problem than you. I am suggesting that specify the problem as well as you can, set a long term goal to be achieved and let some creative skilled people loose on it to see what they come up with, with you or someone else acting to guide them. It could be that nothing but a few academic papers come out of it, but even if all it does is get more people interested then I would say it's | 17:23 |
| Juul | worth doing (if you don't spend your own money that is). | 17:23 |
| kanzure | ah, well, i would be spending my own money, yes. | 17:23 |
| kanzure | if i am going to hole myself up and write the spec, i might as well implement it too | 17:24 |
| Juul | well that's why I was suggesting 100 year star ship as possible long-term funding for something like this | 17:24 |
| kanzure | solidworks was primarily written in 6 months. | 17:24 |
| kanzure | this isn't rocket science, we just all suck | 17:24 |
| nmz787_ | Why not use pro ware? | 17:24 |
| Juul | hm | 17:25 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: looks like tax software.. proware-cpa.com? | 17:25 |
| nmz787_ | Is tjere a way to use payware now but swap to open when skdb get steam and working results | 17:25 |
| nmz787_ | I meant professional | 17:25 |
| kanzure | not really, a lot of solidworks' interfaces are hard to reverse engineer | 17:25 |
| nmz787_ | I.e. solidworks | 17:26 |
| kanzure | i've been working on reverse engineering solidworks' file format.. it's a pain | 17:26 |
| kanzure | it's like a cab file wrapped in another ms container, then using the original xt file format from parasolid, except messed up some | 17:26 |
| kanzure | none of the parametric cad systems are linux-based, and they all cost a buttload.. so nobody would be able to use the system once it was built anyway | 17:26 |
| kanzure | kokompe was an interesting implementation.. they used f-reps instead of nurbs or other models. so they just had a list of inequalities defining the boundaries of a shape, which results in somewhat smooth surfaces and parametric models (sorta). | 17:28 |
| kanzure | implicitcad is another contender.. | 17:28 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/colah/ImplicitCAD | 17:28 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/davidad/kokompe-old | 17:28 |
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| nmz787_ | Oh, so the file not being open is a show stopper | 17:29 |
| kanzure | that too yes | 17:29 |
| kanzure | if you can't read the file, then what's the point? | 17:29 |
| nmz787_ | But if you figured that out then cad on windows, skdb on linux | 17:29 |
| kanzure | so you'd have to reboot each time you want to make hardware? | 17:30 |
| nmz787_ | Gain momentum get someone to develop linux cad | 17:30 |
| nmz787_ | Yeah or have two pcs | 17:30 |
| kanzure | who is this mystical person ?? | 17:30 |
| kanzure | i don't think that person exists, and waiting for someone to fall out of the sky seems silly | 17:31 |
| nmz787_ | anyobe who worked on thw existing linux caf progs | 17:31 |
| nmz787_ | Gve them.money | 17:32 |
| kanzure | the existing linux cad programs do not do nurbs, with the exception of freecad/heekscad, but that's only because they use opencascade | 17:32 |
| kanzure | and opencascade does it only because they pay some people to maintain old, broken code from the 80s | 17:32 |
| kanzure | (and rewriting opencascade is too painful of a process; i investigated that a long time ago and spoke about it at scipy 2010) | 17:32 |
| kanzure | opencascade's problem seems to be that they have nobody that understands their entire program.. as a result they have 100s of modules that reimplement the same features | 17:33 |
| kanzure | Juul: if you're interested in helping out, i think porting esolid to python is a good way to go forward | 17:35 |
| kanzure | esolid was some guy's phd thesis for nurbs cad. the source code was released, but without a license. | 17:35 |
| kanzure | so there's some literature about the math that it uses, plus source code | 17:35 |
| kanzure | i started rewriting it in python http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/esolid/esolid.py | 17:36 |
| Juul | ok, did you ask the guy about the license? | 17:36 |
| kanzure | yeah, he never replied | 17:36 |
| kanzure | but since it's so hard to confirm that it works, i started making a wrapper using cython | 17:36 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/esolid/wrapper/wrapper.pyx | 17:36 |
| kanzure | and then the concept is to slowly port over the functionality into python | 17:36 |
| Juul | ok | 17:37 |
| kanzure | dunno. maybe you're better at nurbs math than me, and it would be like 20 minutes to write out the code? | 17:38 |
| Juul | haha | 17:38 |
| kanzure | i keep thinking that there's probably something in numpy/scipy that does 30% of this problem | 17:38 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/lolcad/boole_notes.txt | 17:40 |
| kanzure | Charlie: are you from austin | 17:46 |
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| kanzure | i've uploaded some new papers here: | 17:48 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/ | 17:49 |
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| brownies | what's a nurb? | 17:58 |
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| Juul | kanzure, isn't ESOLID very very slow? | 17:59 |
| kanzure | brownies: it's like a b-spline | 18:02 |
| kanzure | brownies: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/A%20Primer%20on%20NURBS%20-%20David%20F.%20Rogers%20-%20SIGGRAPH%202002.pdf | 18:02 |
| kanzure | Juul: if you know of a faster method, let me know | 18:02 |
| kanzure | a faster method that either has source code or the same amount of documentation, heh | 18:02 |
| brownies | but making a nurb is hard? | 18:03 |
| Juul | yes ok | 18:03 |
| kanzure | brownies: nurbs are easy, it's the intersection algorithms that are more difficult | 18:03 |
| kanzure | surface-surface intersection algorithms | 18:03 |
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| brownies | i see | 18:04 |
| nmz787_ | How do you define space... i.e. mass vs vacuum (hollow sphere or filled)? | 18:05 |
| nmz787_ | I could imagine nanoengineer designed two buckyballs interlocked, so not really intersection but interlinkes | 18:06 |
| nmz787_ | Interlinked | 18:06 |
| nmz787_ | What about nanoengineer as an engine? | 18:06 |
| nmz787_ | And why nurbs if everything is atoms? | 18:07 |
| delinquentme | anyone in here have ideas about how I might go about getting programming work in bioinformatics | 18:07 |
| delinquentme | with as *LITTLE* leg work as possible | 18:07 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: because how do you store a billion trillion atoms in a cad file? | 18:07 |
| delinquentme | pay doesnt matter | 18:07 |
| nmz787_ | Why not just wasye space in a binary 3d graph? | 18:07 |
| AdrianAway | delinquentme: thats why everyone works for free | 18:07 |
| kanzure | AdrianAway: nobody works for free | 18:07 |
| AdrianAway | delinquentme: work for free in bioinformatics | 18:07 |
| AdrianAway | i am sure nobody will say no to free labour | 18:08 |
| nmz787_ | 0 no particle 1 particle | 18:08 |
| delinquentme | AdrianAway, @_@ | 18:08 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: they are paying pretty well for bioinformatics peeps | 18:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: so you want a grid of 0s and 1s to represent atom placement in a file? | 18:08 |
| nmz787_ | Sure | 18:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: nanoengineer's file format is a little custom, but i think it also uses .pdb everywhere | 18:08 |
| delinquentme | but doing what in bioinformatics? | 18:08 |
| brownies | suppose i'm walking along one day | 18:08 |
| brownies | and a random kids comes up and says "HEY! i really want to code for you! BUT WAIT! it's free!" | 18:09 |
| brownies | think i'll let him write code for anything important? | 18:09 |
| nmz787_ | I guess atoms can vary in distabce so a grid isbt optimal unles oversized | 18:09 |
| kanzure | nmz787_: there are also things like e.g. chunks of atoms | 18:09 |
| kanzure | 10x10x10 slab of carbon | 18:09 |
| nmz787_ | But still space is gettibg cheaper and cheaper | 18:09 |
| nmz787_ | 3d binary grid then zip it | 18:10 |
| kanzure | representing the curve of a screw at atomic precision is largely unnecessary | 18:10 |
| nmz787_ | Sure but so what | 18:10 |
| nmz787_ | The atoms exiat | 18:10 |
| nmz787_ | Exist | 18:10 |
| nmz787_ | If its 1000 lines to code vs billions | 18:10 |
| kanzure | a static collection of atoms is just like stl- it's not parametric cad really. the parametric cad file formats use interactive base objects that you can redraw. it's not like openscad where you have to recompile a script. | 18:11 |
| kanzure | lemme see if i can find you a demo | 18:13 |
| delinquentme | brownies, and this is one of those times where we're required to think | 18:13 |
| delinquentme | versus listen to our gut | 18:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAHnPvyRzfo (except i dunno why the wheels are animated) | 18:13 |
| delinquentme | the quick sum of it is: " Sometimes out gut it wrong " | 18:13 |
| Juul | kanzure, they're actually stored as the base objects? why not just store the resulting NURBs? I guess I can see the usefulness of storing the base objects, but it seems like it would take a while to open a file containing a complex object | 18:14 |
| delinquentme | open source code? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | Juul: well, i haven't completely reverse engineered their file format. but they seem to store more data than is in the STEP format. | 18:14 |
| brownies | delinquentme: what? | 18:14 |
| delinquentme | brownies im saying that the free == shit quality is a busted model | 18:14 |
| kanzure | i thik they have a csg format, and then they render that. but when you edit like the width of the original base cylinder you drew, it updates the rest of the parametric relationships on screen. | 18:14 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: so you don't want to make money? | 18:15 |
| brownies | delinquentme: i was not aware that basic psychology and economics had both been disproven | 18:15 |
| kanzure | i have lots of bioinformatics-related work i could give you | 18:15 |
| kanzure | especially if i'm not paying | 18:15 |
| delinquentme | brownies, make simple statements plz ... I think if we're spending less time trying to figure out what each other means | 18:16 |
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| delinquentme | the quicker well get somewhere w the convo | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | what psychology and what economics | 18:16 |
| * brownies headdesk | 18:17 | |
| brownies | if i pay for something, i value it | 18:17 |
| brownies | and i give it useful work to do | 18:17 |
| brownies | instead of fetching my coffee every morning and then being a human footrest | 18:17 |
| brownies | conversely, if something has a price, that means it has value to people | 18:17 |
| brownies | and, whoa, now i want some of that value, too! | 18:17 |
| brownies | so unless you're worthless and your code is worthless and you have no career goals of any sort, i'd recommend charging for your work. | 18:18 |
| kanzure | wise words | 18:18 |
| delinquentme | brownies, but then how can open source code work | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | awesome programmers contribute free work to linux core | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | to ubuntu | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | so like *CLEARLY* | 18:19 |
| brownies | oftentimes people are getting paid by a company to work on OSS | 18:19 |
| kanzure | no.. canonical pays their programmers | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | that value == money is not a truly functional model | 18:19 |
| kanzure | apple, google, nokia, all those companies pay people to work on chromium and webkit | 18:19 |
| brownies | because the company values having those smart people around, because the company is using that OSS -- so who better to ask for things? | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | often | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | but always? | 18:19 |
| brownies | no, not always | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | then we've disproved the model | 18:19 |
| brownies | other times, people create OSS to create tangible proof that they have value | 18:20 |
| kanzure | nobody has disproved that nokia pays people to work on webkit | 18:20 |
| kanzure | i think you're lying delinquentme. | 18:20 |
| brownies | no, genius, because in the OSS model, you're not working FOR anyone. | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | you're absolutely right | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | .... | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | wait wait. | 18:20 |
| brownies | what was the model anyway? | 18:20 |
| brownies | people value things that they pay for? | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | so because im not working *FOR* someone | 18:20 |
| brownies | you haven't disproved that at all. | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | the model of $$$ == value | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | or more specifially | 18:20 |
| brownies | i mean, i'm not getting paid to sit here and teach you basic facts about humanity | 18:21 |
| brownies | and yet HERE I AM. HOLY CRAP. | 18:21 |
| delinquentme | specifically * that you cant get good code for free | 18:21 |
| brownies | i don't recall saying they were necessarily equal, or that one implied the other | 18:21 |
| delinquentme | sounds like bad logic is creeping. | 18:21 |
| delinquentme | you didnt? | 18:21 |
| delinquentme | hmm. | 18:21 |
| brownies | scroll up. | 18:21 |
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| brownies | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effort_justification | 18:22 |
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| brownies | "i paid that guy $10,000 to work for me last summer" + "i'm not an idiot who wastes $10K" = "yes, that was definitely a wise move" | 18:24 |
| brownies | "that guy worked for me for free last summer" + "look, there's a free pizza in that dumpster, too!" = "well, he was ok, i guess" | 18:24 |
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| delinquentme | simply put: Things that are free are not without value. | 18:24 |
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| brownies | i never claimed that | 18:25 |
| delinquentme | lets not ( for some reason ) attempt to make that more complex than it needs to be | 18:25 |
| delinquentme | perhaps that was my assumption. | 18:25 |
| brownies | but, seeing as how you want a "job" you should be more interested in perceived value. | 18:25 |
| brownies | things that are free have less perceived value than things that are not free. | 18:25 |
| brownies | in fact, THE SAME THING will have less perceived value when it's free compared to when it's not free. | 18:25 |
| delinquentme | thank you kimosabe | 18:25 |
| kanzure | brownies: not quite.. in many situations i perceive a proprietary tool as worthless and incompatible with my other licenses | 18:26 |
| brownies | there are counterexamples that demonstrate other forms of cognitive dissonance, but they're not terribly relevant to your impoverished situation. | 18:26 |
| kanzure | *proprietary, high-cost tool | 18:26 |
| brownies | kanzure: yes, that's an example of what happens when we introduce other metrics, instead of just money | 18:26 |
| brownies | however, he's competing for the job with people who already talking dollars and cents, so he's going to be valued on that metric regardless. | 18:27 |
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| Steel2 | so | 19:21 |
| Steel2 | y'all see the germline babies thing? | 19:21 |
| yashgaroth | "the"? | 19:22 |
| Steel2 | yashgaroth, check my fb feed | 19:23 |
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| yashgaroth | argh daily mail | 19:24 |
| yashgaroth | ohhh it's that mitochondrial thing | 19:25 |
| Steel2 | we going out saturday? | 19:26 |
| yashgaroth | you know it, are there any good places in la jolla? | 19:26 |
| Steel2 | no idea | 19:27 |
| yashgaroth | yeah me either | 19:27 |
| Steel2 | I'll ask marissa | 19:27 |
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| klafka1 | man | 20:20 |
| klafka1 | i am really nervous about a phone code interview | 20:20 |
| klafka1 | has anyone had one of those before? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | sure. | 20:21 |
| klafka1 | do you like code while you talk to them | 20:21 |
| kanzure | i could grill you over the phone if you like | 20:21 |
| kanzure | haha, hell no | 20:21 |
| klafka1 | it's more like they ask you technical questions right? | 20:22 |
| kanzure | i mean, it's conceivable that they might ask you to, but then they would be idiots | 20:22 |
| klafka1 | could it be the recruiter was just sort of not exactly sure | 20:22 |
| klafka1 | since they told me they started 2 weeks ago | 20:22 |
| kanzure | hah | 20:22 |
| klafka1 | i got this emial | 20:22 |
| kanzure | what do you mean though? someone asked you to write.. what? | 20:22 |
| klafka1 | I showed your information to our co-founder and he wants to move forward with a coding interview for an engineering role. Can you please let me know when works best for you in PDT and if you prefer phone or skype for the coding interview (and where to reach you)? | 20:22 |
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| klafka1 | Yes, you will need to be at your computer since you'll be doing the coding over internet. It will probably last around an hour. | 20:23 |
| kanzure | klafka1: he probably just means "interview for a coder" rather than "interview for some other position" | 20:23 |
| kanzure | oh, they probably want to watch you write code | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | that really scares me fuck | 20:23 |
| brownies | sounds creepy | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | i'm trying to think of how to prepare | 20:23 |
| kanzure | yeah that's pretty stupid | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | i've been reading some style guides for python | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | and reading up on itertools and shit | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | i hope they like to see me google shit | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | idk | 20:23 |
| brownies | you should do skype | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | it is over skype | 20:23 |
| kanzure | they will probably give you a link to etherpad and not watch your screen | 20:23 |
| klafka1 | ah ok | 20:24 |
| brownies | so that you don't have to hold the phone while you google for answers | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | good point | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | i am | 20:24 |
| kanzure | if they ask to see your screen, that's a cheap shot in my opinion | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | i agree | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | yeah you're probably right with the etherpad thing | 20:24 |
| kanzure | you should ask to see their screen instead | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | hahaha | 20:24 |
| brownies | "it's only fair" | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | haha | 20:24 |
| klafka1 | anyways | 20:25 |
| klafka1 | i really am tired of doing support | 20:25 |
| kanzure | honestly these interviews can be hit or miss | 20:25 |
| brownies | there's nothing you can do to prepare at this point | 20:25 |
| klafka1 | especially since i have't had a developer role | 20:25 |
| brownies | just chill. get some sleep. don't drink too much coffee beforehand. | 20:25 |
| klafka1 | idk i told them that and they still want to talk to me | 20:25 |
| kanzure | you write okay python already, it really shouldn't be an issue | 20:25 |
| brownies | that sort of thing, you can do. but that's about it. | 20:25 |
| klafka1 | so whatever | 20:25 |
| kanzure | don't tell them you're bad at coding -_- | 20:26 |
| kanzure | also don't say you work for free | 20:26 |
| klafka1 | kanzure i won't | 20:26 |
| klafka1 | i won't | 20:26 |
| klafka1 | hahahahahaha | 20:26 |
| klafka1 | i'm not giving up my paying job for a non-paying job | 20:26 |
| klafka1 | even though i have to commute to menlo park | 20:26 |
| brownies | that seems to be a real trend here | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | sup you flamers | 20:26 |
| kanzure | if you don't feel comfortable taking a leadership role on their software, tell them that- like what sort of capabilities you think you're good for, they would appreciate that | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | (as in flame wars) | 20:26 |
| brownies | "i want a job... but i'm terrible at what i do... and i hate money" | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | yeah to be smart you gotta know your limitations | 20:27 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 20:27 |
| klafka1 | exactly | 20:27 |
| nmz787 | i liberally tell people i'm not good with math, i understand it like i understand art... beautifully able to communicate abstract thoughts, and yeah i can see it when a lecturer is talking, but i hate computing that shit | 20:27 |
| klafka1 | meh whatever i'll still have a job regardless | 20:27 |
| klafka1 | i hada momemnt where i didn't understand how to create a probability density function that described a unit circle and I freaked out | 20:28 |
| klafka1 | well | 20:28 |
| klafka1 | the area of a unit circle | 20:28 |
| kanzure | that's not going to come up in a programming interview | 20:28 |
| nmz787 | thats open for parallelizing | 20:28 |
| klafka1 | no but it mattered because i was making test cases for my MCMC sampler | 20:29 |
| brownies | isn't the area of a unit circle... a constant... | 20:29 |
| klafka1 | nmz no it's not it's just 1 within the boundary of te unit circle | 20:29 |
| klafka1 | brownies i wanted a probability density function that described a unit circle though | 20:29 |
| brownies | oh i see. i.i.d where x^2 + y^2 < 1 and 0 elsewhere. | 20:30 |
| nmz787 | nah but i've heard that was an example of using parallelized programming | 20:30 |
| brownies | (right? did i just say something very dumb?) | 20:30 |
| klafka1 | basically it's a uniform distribution on the area (x?h)2+(y?k)2=r2 | 20:30 |
| nmz787 | to compute an actual value, i think it was using monte carlo simulations | 20:30 |
| brownies | depends how you want to "describe" the circle | 20:30 |
| klafka1 | oh yeah | 20:30 |
| klafka1 | nmz that's what i was doing | 20:30 |
| brownies | klafka1: heh ok good | 20:31 |
| klafka1 | brownies exactly | 20:31 |
| klafka1 | i just had this freak out moment though where i was like "it's been 2 years since i've done machine learning shit i'mf orgetting probability" | 20:31 |
| klafka1 | and i downloaded wasserman's all of statistics and read the first few chaptesr and fell asleep | 20:31 |
| klafka1 | i think it's the lapsed grad students version of the cute in high school girl that realized she gains 20 pounds and eats a bunch of bon bons | 20:31 |
| brownies | initially i was thinking "area of a circle" and i was going to suggest the probability density function could just be the dirac delta function with a spike at pi/4 | 20:32 |
| brownies | =P | 20:32 |
| brownies | klafka1: oh i totally feel that. | 20:33 |
| brownies | there's no known cure. -_- | 20:33 |
| klafka1 | hahah | 20:33 |
| klafka1 | i still need to actually write that unit test though | 20:33 |
| klafka1 | i realized i needed to modify my sampler to include min/max values | 20:33 |
| klafka1 | and then i realized i needed to potentially change the mean of my gaussian i was using for proposal distribution to be centered in that min max range | 20:34 |
| klafka1 | it gets a lot more complicated in multivariate space | 20:34 |
| klafka1 | blah | 20:34 |
| klafka1 | and then i was like 'i see this is why most people just build their own custom MCMC sampler when they need to sample, like you did.' | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | MCMC? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | monte-carlo | 20:36 |
| klafka1 | markov chain monte carlo | 20:37 |
| klafka1 | sorry i talk about mcmc way to much | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | what do you use it for? it was kind of rushed over in a bioinformatics 101 type class | 20:37 |
| klafka1 | generally numerically estimating intractable integrals which are typically probability spaces | 20:41 |
| klafka1 | so for instance you can use it to estimate derivatives in a likelihood function for finding an optimum with gradient descent | 20:41 |
| klafka1 | ooor you can use it to estimate a prior for a bayesian classifier | 20:42 |
| klafka1 | they use it a lot in physics because you often need to estimate the entropy of a thiingie but in order to do so you have to calculate the partition function Z which is totally intractable | 20:43 |
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| klafka1 | it turns out we use these same methods frmo physics to say learning gene expression networks | 20:43 |
| klafka1 | or inferring phylogenies | 20:43 |
| nmz787 | intractable? | 20:48 |
| klafka1 | as in they don't have a closed form solution | 20:49 |
| kanzure | like various n-body problems | 20:49 |
| nmz787 | you mean there are multiple solutions, which you wouldn't be able to reverse and get the same seed? | 20:49 |
| klafka1 | no there is a solution but it's impossible to arrive at it from an analytical method | 20:50 |
| nmz787 | kanzure, can you try to find an email for me googling site:dgshipping.com "mukul datta" doesn't return anything (or when i add a comma and reverse so last name then first) | 20:50 |
| nmz787 | dgshipping . com | 20:51 |
| klafka1 | here is an example http://www.nongnu.org/gsl-shell/doc/vegas.html#usage-example | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | i found that he posted on this news article in the comments http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3469760.ece | 20:51 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i don't have any emails from you about dgshipping | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | but can't message him or whatever | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | not from me | 20:51 |
| kanzure | i don't have any emails about dgshipping | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | right | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | i wouldnt think so | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | i was asking maybe i have worse google-fu than you | 20:52 |
| kanzure | ok so you emailed me something about dgshipping? | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | no | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | i want to find this persons email | 20:52 |
| kanzure | oh you are looking for someone's email address? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | okay. | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 20:52 |
| kanzure | dgship@dgshipping.com | 20:53 |
| kanzure | skjaiswal@dgshipping.com | 20:53 |
| kanzure | i thikn the structure is mdatta@dgshipping.com | 20:53 |
| kanzure | *think | 20:53 |
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| nmz787 | cool | 21:14 |
| nmz787 | thanks, will try | 21:14 |
| nmz787 | ok gnight | 21:14 |
| nmz787 | klafka1: thanks for the link, i'll check it out | 21:15 |
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| kanzure | pythonocc thing http://julienbld.github.com/pycado/ | 21:29 |
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| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-m9jQPBPS4 | 23:03 |
| kanzure | blender speed modeling thing of a robot thing | 23:03 |
| kanzure | not sure what all those extra parts are for | 23:04 |
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| yashgaroth | heatsinks? | 23:08 |
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| kanzure | "Consequently, workers who operate and maintain machinery suffer approximately 18,000 amputations, lacerations, crushing injuries, abrasions, and over 800 deaths per year" | 23:21 |
| nmz787 | plus the vibrations can cause longterm disease | 23:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: what do you make of these? http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2011/05/26/openscad-screw-libraries-by-syvwlch-and-aubenc/ | 23:28 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/syvwlch/Thingiverse-Projects/tree/master/Threaded%20Library | 23:28 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure do you normally use a laptop for dev? | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | or multiple monitors? | 23:33 |
| kanzure | i use a laptop with multiple monitors, and some other computers | 23:33 |
| kanzure | (plus remote boxes) | 23:33 |
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| nmz787 | well i am talking human interface devices, so you prefer multiple monitors, do you use an external keyboard? | 23:34 |
| kanzure | yes i use external keyboards when i feel like it | 23:35 |
| kanzure | i definitely prefer multiple monitors | 23:35 |
| nmz787 | can you run more than one from your laptop? | 23:35 |
| nmz787 | without using one of those USB video card things? | 23:35 |
| kanzure | no not this laptop | 23:36 |
| kanzure | i think i can run a few x sessions and pipe that into another computer's display, if you want that | 23:36 |
| nmz787 | no, asking what you literally use | 23:37 |
| kanzure | at the moment just three screens and three devices | 23:38 |
| nmz787 | so one screen per device? | 23:38 |
| kanzure | yes? | 23:39 |
| nmz787 | sorry, just wondering | 23:41 |
| brownies | kanzure: simultaneously? | 23:53 |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 28 00:00:53 2012 | ||
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