2012-08-14.log

--- Log opened Tue Aug 14 00:00:43 2012
jrayhawkhttp://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/nutrients/vitamin-c/ has a decent treatment of human vitamin C metabolism in case you want to read more about the recycling00:03
nmz787jrayhawk:  can you link to  megadosing vitamin C == toxicity00:07
nmz787my dad always seems sick to me, and he always swears vitamin C cures it00:07
nmz787but he /always/ seems sick, or talks about how he just got over being sick00:08
JayDuggerI'd find that same link interesting, jrayhawk.00:09
JayDuggerMy experience with long-term high doses of vitamin C has yet to show any negative effects.00:09
JayDuggerPerhaps I look in the wrong place.00:09
brownieskanzure: ah.00:18
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jrayhawkWell, the DHAA is just a stress on the liver, so it's not that big a deal in and of itself.00:23
jrayhawkLong-term high-dose vitamin C has a more insidious effect of keeping your body from experiencing normal oxidative stressors, so no hormetic response is launched and you wind up less prepared for serious problems.00:24
nmz787jrayhawk: from that link's conclusion "The failure of the body to efficiently recycle vitamin C and maintain antioxidant stores on a zero-carb diet is evidence of an evolutionary maladaption to the zero-carb diet."            What if we lost/should-lose the ketogenic diet habit because it was causing vitamin C deficiency?00:25
JayDuggerI don't find the lack of hormetic response a convincing reason to stop taking vitamin C megadoses,00:26
JayDuggerStressors come by easily00:26
JayDuggerenough.00:26
JayDuggerSuch as my puzzling accidental keystrokes that shouldn't have sent a CR, but did.00:27
jrayhawkthe terrible scourage of vitamin c strikes again00:27
JayDuggerI think it has more to do with my hand remaining stiff from a nasty cat bite two weeks ago,00:28
JayDuggers/,/./00:28
JayDuggerYeah...I think I'll stick to megadoses until I read something much more convincing.00:29
JayDuggerAlthough 4g/hour will certainly--how do they phrase it?--reach bowel intolerance. :)00:31
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jrayhawknmz787: ketosis works well for some, less well for others. It's not real clear on what the mechanisms for that are.00:32
JayDuggerThank you for the link, jrayhawk.00:32
browniesi thought the mechanism was... ketosis.00:32
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browniesso, if i understand correctly, the real conclusion is "if you are on zero-carb diets, supplement with vitamin C"00:33
brownies?00:33
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jrayhawkI personally do plenty of gluconeogenesis to keep up with the demands of my brain and mucous; haven't measured vitamin C, but I suspect it's the same.00:33
jrayhawkMister Jaminet apparently does not.00:34
jrayhawkThe more serious conclusion is "if you're doing a zero-carb diet and you suffer from dry eyes, ulcers/stomach cancer, brain fog, and illness, you should probably stop."00:35
brownies"if you are doing ____ and it caused cancer, you should stop." is probably a generally valid heuristic00:35
jrayhawkwell, i guess 'long-term stomach cancer'00:36
jrayhawkpeople get stomach cancers all the time00:36
browniesthat's interesting though; i had no idea zero-carb diets were so... risky?00:38
jrayhawkIt might be some sort of metabolic disregulation that keeps gluconeogenesis from getting signalled right.00:42
jrayhawkIt may also be a fairly recent adaptation to different food sources.00:43
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nmz787i really feel like that page seemed to be talking about rare/anomalous cases00:47
nmz787seems like the shift in foods should be to phototrophs00:47
nmz787there are plenty of 'vegan health' pages too I'm sure, promoting it as the best and longest lived diet, highest life quality00:48
jrayhawkgrass+cow; a delicious phototroph00:48
jrayhawkactually, raw food veganism, in particular, actually has some decent health benefits on account of it avoiding sugar, grains, and seed oils00:52
jrayhawkactually actually actually00:53
jrayhawkbut the meat part of that is orthogonal and eventually problematic00:53
nmz787jrayhawk: what does your last statement mean?00:57
jrayhawkas in you can get those same health benefits with a diet that includes non-pathogenic meats, and you get other, different pathologies if you completely abstain from meats.00:58
jrayhawkspecifically you absolutely need a b12 supplement; you can't get it from whole plant sources.00:59
jrayhawkother b vitamins are merely very hard to get from whole plant sources01:00
nmz787so what about the energy efficinency and pollution reduction (less manue/effluent, less methane)01:00
nmz787i guess that's why i reason for "shift the herd"01:01
nmz787i think that's what the genetic pressure should be, for something like transhumanism01:01
jrayhawkcellulose grows and cellulose breakdown causes methane release either way...?01:01
nmz787maximize performance/energy01:01
nmz787Our city of 2032 is emitting as much information in a second as Google processes in an hour today: remarkable, but not outrageous in context. What can we do with all those chips? http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/08/how-low-power-can-you-go.html01:02
jrayhawkwhat you're proposing is to replace all biology, which seems like a good plan, but also not feasible and also likely to be an emergent outcome of other effort.01:02
jrayhawker... not feasible today01:03
jrayhawki agree that biology is inefficient and dumb and i support our glorious impending hard ai takeoff overlords01:03
nmz787hmm?01:04
nmz787replace biology?01:04
jrayhawkyou are claiming existing biology is inefficient. i agree.01:05
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nmz787no, i'm just saying evolution works because of random mutation being pressured a certain way.... i feel like the pressure should be towards utilizing phototrophs as energy and nutrient sources01:05
jrayhawkhaha talking about evolution in this day and age is adorable01:05
nmz787and maybe adding in pathways or fixing broken vitamin C pathways might be a way, but I'm not sure01:06
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nmz787jrayhawk: are you a religious person that doesn't believe in evollution?01:06
jrayhawkevolution is an emergent property of mutation and survival of the fittest. this emergent property is irrelevantly slow already today. we are no longer making cultivars, we are engineering them.01:07
jrayhawkit will be even more irrelevantly slow in five years.01:07
nmz787i still see that as evolution01:08
yashgarothdon't01:08
nmz787the word evolution was used before applied to biology http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=evolution01:08
browniesjrayhawk: thanks for the perfect health links... i read the whole series on zero-carb stuff01:08
browniesi think he's a little too fast-and-loose with some of his extrapolations, but it's still a solid read01:09
browniesconclusions => if you're on zero-carb, then take a multivitamin, salt all the things, and drink buckets of water01:09
jrayhawkJaminet does good research, though his conclusions are a bit colored by his goals.01:10
nmz787yashgaroth: jrayhawk the statement "IBMs product line has evolved through time" seems true to me even though the advances were engineered... there was still folly involved, branching, etch01:10
nmz787s/etch/etc/01:10
foucistnoobs.. evolution is incredibly efficient.   AI will rely heavily on evolutionary computation and similar algorithms01:12
* nmz787 likes foucist's comment 01:13
jrayhawkevolution-the-biological-theory (or, really, emergent property of two other theories) has more significance in the context of biology than evolution-the-synonym-for-incremental-change, but whatever, i guess it doesn't matter much01:13
yashgarothare you saying you don't believe in the evolution of ibm's product line01:14
jrayhawki believe in intelligent design of ibm's product line01:14
brownieshaha01:15
jrayhawkthe marketing department of OS/2 is a culture that should probably be destroyed, though01:15
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@kanzureyorick: are you a sympy developer?02:10
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@kanzureinstead of prophesizing they should prosthetize02:58
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@kanzurehttp://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/08/yes-we-should-prenatal-sequencing/03:42
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@kanzureblaah why is grandma emailing me about scanadu ughh04:18
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@kanzurelike she's in-the-know-enough to know about scanadu, but not enough to know how much of a fucking scam tito jankowski is?04:18
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chris_99anyone played hall effect sensors before?05:08
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@kanzurewhat is "%032X" in string formatting speak?05:45
@kanzure32 char-wide somethingsomething?05:46
ybitgood morning ##hplusroadmap06:05
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Sanky_zero-padded uppercase hex06:22
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Sanky_I *think* (kanzure ^)06:22
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@kanzureSanky_: thank you06:33
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@kanzure"Wiley have sent out a press release today to announce that they have changed the licensing conditions of their 'WileyOpenAccess' branded journals. They have now adopted the Creative Commons Attribution (CC-BY) licence."07:06
chris_99cool07:09
chris_99i didn't know Wiley did journals07:09
@kanzurewiley interscience is one of the great evils of this world07:12
Sanky_dr. wiley07:17
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yorickkanzure: I am not, I'm just in their channel08:45
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strangewarpHuh.08:57
strangewarphttp://requireshate.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/magic-vs-science-the-fucking-singularity-and-anti-intellectualism/ - I agree with this to a startling degree08:57
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delinquentmekanzure, talk to me about programming.09:12
delinquentmespecifically when switching / using multiple languages09:12
delinquentmelike you're currently on a python swing right?09:12
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TheEmpathpolyglotness!09:51
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Mokbortolan_(+ LDLPFC)(-RDLPFC) = Clearear thoughts, poorer language ability10:18
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Mokbortolan_(and spelling)10:19
Mokbortolan_at least, cutting and pasting ability10:19
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TheEmpathfound something helpful http://www.biostat.wisc.edu/~craven/hunter.pdf Molecular Biology for Computer Scientists11:48
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delinquentmehttp://io9.com/5933030/breakthrough-genetic-circuits-bring-us-closer-to-synthetic-human-cells12:39
delinquentme^Breakthrough “genetic circuits” bring us closer to synthetic human cells12:39
delinquentmetranscription factors ...12:45
yashgarothmhm12:45
delinquentmeare they promoters?12:45
yashgaroththey can be12:45
delinquentmeok sweet12:46
yashgarothtranscription factor is a broad term for all dna-binding proteins that modify gene expression12:46
delinquentmeso this new thins basically allows better control over what genes we want to express12:46
delinquentmeoh!12:46
yashgarothI suppose, though I can only see thumbnails of the figures which doesn't tell me much12:47
yashgaroth.fetch http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009286741200780512:48
paperbottrying to fetch the paper...12:48
yashgarothc'mon paperbot you can do it12:49
* strangewarp folds paperbot into origami c:12:50
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delinquentmehaha pwnt12:56
delinquentmeyashgaroth, ... what is this witchcraft?!12:56
yashgarothwhat is what12:57
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delinquentmepaperbot is fetching papers from scidirect?12:57
delinquentmeis this something you guys built out?12:57
yashgarothit's kanzure's project12:57
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yashgaroth.wik DNA nanotechnology12:59
paperbot"DNA nanotechnology (a.k.a. nanomachines) is the design and manufacture of artificial nucleic acid structures for technological uses." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_nanotechnology12:59
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@kanzuresince when does google scholar do profiles? http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=lJhWHCIAAAAJ&hl=en13:06
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yashgarothseems like they have to sign up for it, still cool though13:08
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@kanzuredelinquentme: not witchcraft.. papercraft13:28
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browniesdelinquentme: polyglot questions?14:16
brownieskanzure: how do i make paperbot  do my bidding?14:17
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@kanzurebrownies: well, it's very broken right now14:17
@kanzurebrownies: actually, maybe you have a few ideas..14:17
@kanzurei am happy to write code to download papers, but there's this big pile of javascript that already does that14:17
@kanzurehttp://github.com/kanzure/translators14:17
@kanzurebut it only works in firefox (the zotero extension)14:17
@kanzureit would be nice to harness their momentum instead of reinventing the wheel14:17
@kanzureso i was thinking of using substack's browserify or schoolbus.js thing with headless firefox (if such a thing exists), or porting it to phantomjs or something14:18
@kanzurezotero's translators.git repository seems to be actively maintained. they fix things when publisher's websites break.14:18
browniesi don't think there's headless firefox, but you can capybara using poltergeist, the phantomjs driver14:19
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@kanzurebrownies: but in that scenario, i'd have to write custom scrapers anyway, in which case why the fuck would i use capybara or poltergeist14:20
browniesohhh i see, firefox is a hard requirement14:21
browniesi don't think you can get headless firefox14:21
browniesespecially not when you're depending on its extension functionality14:21
@kanzurei figured as much :/14:23
browniesyou could approximate headlessness in some retarded way; e.g. run it remotely on an ubuntu VPS14:25
Mokbortolan_1can anybody find this for me: Enhancement of selective attention by tDCS: interaction with interference in a Sternberg task.14:31
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@kanzurebrownies: i don't think that's appropriate. i'd rather just write my own scrapers before i'd do that.14:32
brownieskanzure: heh. yeah, i don't know.... there's no elegant solutions here, just layers of duct tape.14:34
Mokbortolan_1well, if you put some fiberglass down OVER the duck dape, then paint and polish it, it can look pretty nice!14:35
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Juuldoes anyone know who is behind the rayfish thing?15:21
Juuli really like it15:24
Juulespecially after watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-_NQj5HMx015:25
chris_99sounds sick to me15:25
chris_99(not in a good way)15:25
Juulit's a hoax15:25
chris_99is it?15:25
Juulyes15:25
chris_99you're talking about the trainer thing?15:26
Juulyes15:26
chris_99how do you know it's a hoax?15:26
Juulif you watch the video i just linked, you'll get an idea why they are trying to provoke this response15:26
chris_99i haven't seen the video15:26
Juulfor one thing, the technology doesn't exist yet15:27
Steel2I think it might be an arg15:27
JuulSteel2, possibly15:28
Juulit's most likely one of the environmentalism organizations15:29
Juulwhich makes it all the more impressive15:29
chris_99i can't see the point?15:30
Juulget people outraged about genetic modification and the poor little rays and then as they are outraged show them that they constantly support companies with much worse business practices and start a debate about genetic engineering15:31
@kanzureyawn.. why would i want to debate genetic engineering?15:33
TheEmpathhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_R._Taylor15:34
Juulkanzure, because the general public is afraid and uninformed?15:35
@kanzureJuul: the general public isn't going to help you with your genetic engineering projects anyway :)15:37
Juulkanzure, true, but they might make it more difficult for me to do them legally15:37
@kanzureyes, but you would probably still do it anyway15:37
@kanzurei know you :)15:37
Juulssssh!15:38
@kanzureoh i mean, yes that will stop you15:38
Juulwhy would i do something if i can't tweet about it!15:38
Juulif a tree falls in the forest, and no-one tweets an instagram of it, did it really fall?15:39
Juul:P15:39
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strangewarpit's me, I'm the tree15:48
TheEmpathwhat the…. you're supposed to be dead!15:48
strangewarpI was dead before I was alive so it's cool15:53
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browniesi have coffee again... all is well with the world.17:25
browniesjrayhawk: i'm seriously considering adding a cup or two of broth to the meal plan, after yesterday's research17:25
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jrayhawkbone broth?17:41
brownieschicken broth or something17:42
jrayhawkGo for bone broth. Glutathione is incredibly important.17:43
browniesyou know, something ultra-salty17:43
* brownies googles17:43
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browniesinteresting. never seen it/had it before, but i'll look for it at the store next time.17:44
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browniesjrayhawk: thanks for the tip17:45
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@kanzurebrownies: aha! so you *do* go to the store.17:52
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jrayhawksell spotted, mister holmes17:54
jrayhawks/sell/well17:55
@kanzurejrayhawk: well, he likes to pretend he just hires people to do those things17:55
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tashoutangmorning18:06
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delinquentmewat.18:32
delinquentmehttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444772404577587134096349766.html?mod=e2tw18:32
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delinquentmeOMG18:55
delinquentmeTHE BEST THING EVER.18:55
delinquentmehttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76564518:55
delinquentmeman threatens for sue mozilla for 18 grand ...  THIS is his website: http://www.constellation7.org/18:55
@kanzure"It is a VAST AMOUNT OF WORK, to rewite every page with this failure." he is doing stylesheets wrong18:56
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@kanzure"My hourly rate as CEO of this Corporation is HK$1900 or US$247.00 per hour."19:00
@kanzureoh so that's how much i should be charging for grep/sed work these days? hrmm19:00
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jrayhawkgood lord why is the bugzilla comment text preformatted19:12
@kanzurebleh the 300 lines of smali barf that i've been tracing turns out to be just a complicated way of saying "take the md5sum of the input"19:13
@kanzurei feel so defeated19:13
jrayhawkit sounds like he was doing search and replace by hand19:20
jrayhawkdoing things by hand makes things better and more special19:20
@kanzurei think it's cute that nobody called him out on the .htm/.html thing19:20
jrayhawki think there's a substantial backlog of things to call him out on19:20
@kanzurei wonder if he really thinks he's communicating things when he makes the comparisons to microsoft19:23
@kanzureobviously he knows nothing of mozilla's ways19:23
@kanzure(except super old deprecated style prefixes?)19:24
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joshcryerIf you are mildly OCD like me doing things by hand is NECESSARY. ;P20:08
Steel2welp, single again20:10
Steel2maybe I should see if lepht wants to go on a date /joke20:10
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joshcryerfu Steel220:25
joshcryerlepht is hot ;P20:25
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@kanzurehi nmz78721:41
nmz787hi kanzure21:41
nmz787kanzure: fenn_ Home CNCing a boat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nITLI_WcnuM&feature=player_embedded21:42
nmz787Here is the result "Szybkie rowery wodne - Fast pedal boats" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0cgh-_46IA&list=UUcJmNXm7EUDd9zwRqLv08nA&index=2&feature=plcp21:42
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nmz787kanzure: can you update the CAD FAQ sometime soon?22:31
@kanzurewith what?22:32
@kanzureoh you mean actual content?22:32
@kanzureit was mostly meant to be a rant about why blender and animation tools aren't CAD tools22:33
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ParahSailin__i use metafont for cad22:36
@kanzurei can never decide between svg and dwf but metafont is a fascinating pick..22:37
skorketkanzure, nmz787, you guys have a laser cutter?22:37
jrayhawkmspaint.exe22:37
@kanzureskorket: i have a laser cutter somewhere, yeah22:37
@kanzureskorket: but we were thinking about building http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher22:37
skorketah, yes, you've shown me before22:37
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skorketthe laser cutter you have is not high enough precision?22:38
@kanzurenope22:38
skorketwhat was it, may I ask?22:38
ParahSailin__it was about 622:39
@kanzureULS-25ER22:39
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skorketwhat was the resolution and accuracy, if you know?22:40
ParahSailin__6 su22:40
@kanzureit's in the logs somewhere, i forget22:41
@kanzuremillimeters or worse22:41
nmz787ParahSailin_ 6U?? What?22:41
skorketthat was because of the laser beam or the gearing/steppers attached to it?22:42
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nmz787Wozniak: Web crackdown coming, freedom failing  -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJnghGBBP2Q22:42
@kanzureoptics, steppers, general suckage22:42
skorkethow long before you get your new laser cutter up and running?  and why not use something off the shelf?22:43
nmz787skorket: uses belts instead of lead screw with high number of threads, doesn't microstep, wrong laser wavelength for spot size we need22:43
@kanzurebecause i don't want to pay $150,000 for an off-the-shelf micron-resolution laser cutter, fuck22:43
@kanzureskorket: right now nathan doesn't know where he is going to be living and i'm hesitant to dump cash into equipment when it's just going to be abandoned (it's not cheap to move stuff)22:43
@kanzurei'm cranky because i haven't slept in a few days22:44
nmz787skorket: yeah I basically have to settle somewhere, but I just went to a hackerspace in manhattan and they at least have a mill22:44
* kanzure sleeps22:44
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skorketmeaning you want lead screws instead of belts and you want microstepping?22:50
@kanzuredefinitely not belts oh god why aren't i sleeping22:51
@kanzurewhat if i have forgotten how to sleep22:51
skorketwhat's wrong with belts?22:51
nmz787i think there's more slop22:52
skorketinteresting.22:52
nmz787skorket: do you know about CNC?22:53
skorketI just purchased a kit from zen toolworks.  I'm trying to get a 'hello world' running right now22:53
skorketelectronics and steppers I purchased seperately, I just purchased the hardware from zen toolworks22:54
skorketit's leadscrew with 1.25 pitch22:54
skorket...so 1.25 pitch, 400 steps per revolution, x16 microstepping gives .00015625 mm resolution?  isn't that within shooting range of what you guys need?22:56
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nmz787yeah that's pretty good23:22
nmz787which one did you get?23:22
nmz787fenn_: you around?23:23
skorketnmz787, http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=74 , ordered without the motors23:30
skorketstepper motors:  https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10846? , stepper drivers:  http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/118223:30
skorketwith an arduino running grbl for the controller23:31
skorketthough I hear emc2, aka linuxcnc, is the way to go23:31
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nmz787skorket: I know linuxcnc was thought to be too slow for what we wanted23:51
nmz787skorket: so maybe gbrl is too (trying to find some old notes on the time calcs)23:51
skorketwhat aspect was too slow?23:52
nmz787i guess the parallel port speed which was still stable23:53
nmz787for the cut rate we wanted23:54
skorketI'd be interested to see those calculations23:54
--- Log closed Wed Aug 15 00:00:45 2012

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