| --- Log opened Sat Aug 25 00:00:06 2012 | ||
| hankx7787__ | yeah, where did you ehra bout it? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| yashgaroth | pretty sure it was on reddit about a dozen times, not that I admit to going there anymore | 00:03 |
| hankx7787__ | wut | 00:03 |
| hankx7787__ | what subreddits | 00:03 |
| yashgaroth | all of them | 00:03 |
| hankx7787__ | I go to reddit all the fucking time and have never seen this | 00:04 |
| delinquentme | ONE BILLION DOLLARS | 00:04 |
| delinquentme | http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/24/3266391/apple-samsung-patent-damages-verdict | 00:04 |
| delinquentme | ( but really ) | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | i dont go on reddit but maybe 10 times a year | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | or less | 00:05 |
| brownies | i heard about it on... irc, i think | 00:05 |
| yashgaroth | sometimes it's tough to pick through the "my atheist cat le derping, dae?" that is reddit nowadays | 00:05 |
| brownies | wow, i am never going to admit that in public. i need a cooler story. | 00:05 |
| brownies | yashgaroth: heh. yeah... lots of noise. | 00:06 |
| yashgaroth | it's sad really...I weep single tears for reddit, every weekend | 00:06 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: you awake? | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | where can i post an image quickly? | 00:20 |
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| brownies | imgur.com or minus.com | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | backyard brains made a music video http://io9.com/5937406/watch-what-happens-when-you-play-cypress-hill-through-a-squids-fin | 00:24 |
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| nmz787 | another with cockroach leg Watch a disembodied cockroach leg dance to the Beastie Boys | 00:32 |
| nmz787 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edEXKiOmPvE&feature=player_embedded#t=720s | 00:32 |
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| nmz787 | delinquentme: 10 hour version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clc-UL47D_s | 01:26 |
| delinquentme | OPPAN GANGNAM STYLE | 01:27 |
| delinquentme | OK guys im out ahha | 01:27 |
| delinquentme | NIGHTY | 01:27 |
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| foucist | GANGNAM STYLE helps you code | 01:29 |
| foucist | better | 01:29 |
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| @kanzure | not impressed by that video. | 09:46 |
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| docl | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/New_Cryonet/message/2890 | 11:01 |
| docl | Biophysical barriers to reversible cryopresevation | 11:01 |
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| eudoxia | I started that thread <3 | 11:27 |
| * docl helped :) | 11:29 | |
| docl | Hmm, Mike didn't say anything about waterjets or lasers. I wonder if they are just as damaging as knives where soft tissue is concerned. | 11:32 |
| docl | Google is failing me when I search for waterjets and histology. Any ideas on more keywords to use? | 11:33 |
| docl | Apparently they work for laser eye surgery: http://www.victorwhite.com/SAliances/visijet/index.htm | 11:35 |
| eudoxia | maybe thinner diamond knives (made with MNT?) would reduce the damage to tissue | 11:37 |
| docl | That's an idea. | 11:37 |
| docl | http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=SPE-98592-MS | 11:37 |
| eudoxia | but I don't know how thin the average ultramicrotome knife is | 11:37 |
| docl | "High-pressure water jet injuries from high-pressure jet devices are surgical emergencies characterized by small entry wounds with extensive internal damage. Often subtle and inconspicuous on initial clinical presentation, these injuries can lead to potentially extensive tissue damage underneath." | 11:38 |
| docl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoknife | 11:42 |
| docl | Sounds like they are still fixing the tissue prior to slicing with this. | 11:43 |
| docl | http://iopscience.iop.org/0957-4484/20/9/095701 | 11:43 |
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| eudoxia | "One can imagine that CNTs could cut vitreous water, vitrified cells, and other comparatively soft materials in the same way" | 11:47 |
| docl | At least it's useful for scanning vitreous tissue once you get it there. | 11:48 |
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| eudoxia | yet so far all the samples have been a few microns in size | 11:49 |
| eudoxia | i wonder if it's possible to drive the nanotube to a sample while holding either end centimeters apart | 11:50 |
| eudoxia | through | 11:50 |
| eudoxia | * | 11:50 |
| docl | I'm starting to lean more and more towards Mike's idea of replacing all the water with molecules that can be polymerized. Once it stiffens, you could slice it up a lot more easily. | 11:51 |
| docl | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/New_Cryonet/message/2896 | 11:56 |
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| docl | http://www.hartnell.edu/faculty/aedens/Bio1/Bio1osmosisII.doc | 12:41 |
| docl | Osmosis and cells. | 12:42 |
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| docl | Ah, hydrophillic molecules have a hard time entering cells because cell membranes are hydrophobic. Doubly so for myelinated brain cells, I imagine. | 12:46 |
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| docl | On the other hand, transport proteins in the membrane can make it selectively permeable. If you could populate the membranes with the right transport proteins, perhaps that's a way around the cryoprotectant delivery problem. | 12:50 |
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| docl | alcohols and sugars have lots of OH groups. that makes them more polar and thus more hydrophillic. less hydrophillic than ions though. | 12:56 |
| docl | actually Mike says | 12:57 |
| docl | cryoprotectants are fat soluble | 12:57 |
| eudoxia | re myelinated axons, maybe the vesicles carrying glycerol can be transported down the axon through axoplasmic transport | 12:57 |
| docl | I guess that means hydrophobic | 12:57 |
| eudoxia | but i doubt kinesin will reliably work after arrest | 12:57 |
| docl | which lets them more easily penetrate the cells | 12:57 |
| docl | there's a thought | 12:59 |
| docl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axoplasmic_transport | 12:59 |
| eudoxia | this could also be related to your(?) idea of having genetically engineered cells produce cryoprotectant | 13:00 |
| eudoxia | vesicles could be strategically laid out across the length of the axon and opened by autolytic enzymes after arrest | 13:00 |
| eudoxia | self-perfusion | 13:00 |
| docl | nice | 13:01 |
| eudoxia | of course, there are probably a million holes with that idea, but I'm too afraid to ask Darwin because I'll die of shaem | 13:05 |
| eudoxia | shame* | 13:05 |
| docl | yeah I get that... | 13:06 |
| docl | I felt bad about not remembering the myelenation thing because Darwin had already explained it to me in person. | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | https://www.openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Design/T-shirt | 13:11 |
| docl | Gotta be a newbie sometime I guess :/ | 13:12 |
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| docl | kanzure, I was wondering if that was a pickle and an apple high-fiving until I did a mouseover and saw it was yeast and e. coli. | 13:17 |
| docl | eudoxia, I wonder if the axoplasmic transport system could get the CPAs there fast enough? | 13:24 |
| docl | "Vesicular cargoes move relatively fast (50-400 mm/day) whereas transport of proteins takes much longer (moving at less than 8 mm/day)." (from wikipedia) | 13:24 |
| eudoxia | >Vesicular cargoes move relatively fast (50-400 mm/day) | 13:24 |
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| docl | hmm, that's millimeters. so we're talking less than a centimeter per day. how long are axons typically? | 13:25 |
| eudoxia | i was just looking into that | 13:26 |
| eudoxia | It would take little over a day to 'perfuse' the spinal cord this way | 13:26 |
| eudoxia | which is good, since the postmortem examination of Janice Foote showed her spine was transected in two places :/ | 13:27 |
| eudoxia | (good as in, perfusing the spinal cord, bad since it takes so long) | 13:27 |
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| docl | how reversible is myelin damage? maybe it could be dissolved temporarily and grown back over time? | 13:29 |
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| eudoxia | i suppose myelin can be regrown, but my main concern is that if the inside of the axon is not vitrified, it could cause severe ice damage | 13:30 |
| eudoxia | you're asking if axons could be unmyelinated for perfusion? | 13:30 |
| docl | "Axons are in effect the primary transmission lines of the nervous system, and as bundles they help make up nerves. The length of axons is highly dependent on its location within the body. Some axons can extend up to one meter or more while others stretch to as little as one millimeter (inhibitory interneurons). The longest axons in the human body, for example, are those of the sciatic nerve, which run from the base of the spine to the big toe of eac | 13:31 |
| docl | h foot. These single-cell fibers of the sciatic nerve may extend a meter or even longer." | 13:31 |
| docl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axons | 13:31 |
| docl | yes | 13:31 |
| docl | maybe attack them with a custom virus or something | 13:32 |
| eudoxia | okay, so there are 85 billion neurons in the brain, and a 20 year old male has 176000 kilometers of axon (in the white matter), so the average cerebral axon length is 2 millimeters | 13:34 |
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| eudoxia | it would take 7 minutes and 12 seconds to get glycerol vesicles from the soma to the end of the axon | 13:35 |
| @kanzure | hrrm http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://model.mit.edu/endipedia/* | 13:35 |
| docl | great! | 13:35 |
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| docl | we probably don't need to worry about the meter-long ones too much. it's blood vessels being ripped away from the tissue due to shrinkage that is the problem. | 13:36 |
| eudoxia | well who cares about the spinal cord anyways if it's just a bundle of axons | 13:37 |
| brownies | did you guys see the bit about the injection that can oxygenate blood directly? thought it was pretty clever molecule engineering | 13:37 |
| docl | yeah I saw that | 13:37 |
| docl | pretty awesome | 13:37 |
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| Lukas_ | Good afternoon | 13:41 |
| docl | Howdy | 13:41 |
| Lukas_ | I am looking for the general price range of a Utah Array | 13:42 |
| Lukas_ | google isn't yielding anything useful | 13:42 |
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| Lukas_ | or 'Multielectrode Array' | 13:47 |
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| archels | Lukas_: Thinking about implanting one, are we? | 13:57 |
| Lukas_ | archels: perhaps. Do you know? | 13:58 |
| archels | Generally speaking, electrodes are a terrible way of interfacing with neurons. | 13:59 |
| archels | Utah arrays offer terrible resolution. | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KxU63gcF4 | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | this is so crazy | 14:00 |
| archels | And you will get rejection issues, with consequent signal degredation/loss within a year. | 14:00 |
| Lukas_ | 1) What is a better way? 2) Do you still know the price of one? | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | Such a nano-machine exhibits all the characteristics of super-intelligent design. ATP is vital for life and many of these motors were needed before the first living cell could exist. An evolutionary impossibility! | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | http://creation.com | 14:00 |
| archels | A better way is optogenetics in combination with a camera. This is a procedure that's very common on lab animals these days; not aware of any crazy biohackers who've done it on themselves yet. | 14:01 |
| wizaqua | Define irony: a creationist proselytizing in a H-Plus channel | 14:01 |
| archels | May reach biohacker territory within a few years. | 14:01 |
| Lukas_ | As we know that level of engineering is out of reach for now | 14:01 |
| AdrienG | ive heard engineers are on average more religious | 14:02 |
| AdrienG | they expect there to be the chief engineer. | 14:02 |
| archels | Lukas_: no, it exists, and it's in daily use in dozens of labs around the world. | 14:02 |
| Lukas_ | sorry, I mean for DIY people | 14:02 |
| archels | yes, as is a Utah array. | 14:02 |
| Lukas_ | Warwick implanted himself with one ten years ago | 14:02 |
| archels | Possibly you could obtain one if you cough up some four-figure amount. | 14:03 |
| archels | It's not worth it. | 14:04 |
| Lukas_ | yea, especially with what we'd be spending | 14:04 |
| archels | I would say mostly given what you get out of it (or lack thereof). | 14:04 |
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| archels | delinquentme: haha, I was like 'wait, what?' at the end | 14:05 |
| archels | 'an evolutionary impossibility' | 14:05 |
| archels | kanzure: srsly, when are people going to start injecting retrovirii into themselves? | 14:06 |
| Lukas_ | soon | 14:06 |
| Lukas_ | archels: Thank you very much | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | archels, I mean ... at least they're KIND of keeping up with their science | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | lol | 14:06 |
| archels | Why not now? The technology is not only out there, it's common. | 14:06 |
| delinquentme | the conclusions are kind of presumptuous | 14:06 |
| Lukas_ | I have no clue | 14:06 |
| Lukas_ | I'd love to know | 14:07 |
| Lukas_ | thanks a lot, I am going to look around for ways around this .... | 14:07 |
| archels | Lukas_: If you want to learn stuff that's future proof, stop reading about electrodes, and starting reading about optogenetics. | 14:08 |
| * archels wonders what the carcinogenity of retrovirus injection is | 14:08 | |
| archels | Possible way around this: (1) extract cells from human; (2) culture; (3) apply retrovirus; (4) replace cells into subject that were successfully altered | 14:09 |
| archels | Can any of you bio people comment on this? | 14:09 |
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| delinquentme | hankx7787__, WOMP WOMP! | 14:13 |
| hankx7787__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0 | 14:14 |
| delinquentme | does anyone know of any robots running on a raspberry pi? | 14:15 |
| ParahSailin_ | i dont think anyone has an rpi yet | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | certain to penetrate the foundations of modern philosophy. | 14:16 |
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| yashgaroth | archels: what are you asking about retroviruses specifically | 14:21 |
| yashgaroth | using them on extracted cells won't lower the cancer risk at all | 14:22 |
| yashgaroth | and I sure hope you're not talking about doing that with neurons, they're kind of hard to extract and replace | 14:22 |
| archels | yashgaroth: But once we ascertain of a particular subset of culture cells that the procedure worked without side effects, can it be considered safe (read: sane) to put them back into a human body? | 14:23 |
| archels | and no, not neurons, let's say epithelial cells | 14:23 |
| yashgaroth | you can't sort them by how badly their genome has been fucked up, and if you're picking them to expand that will take a very long time | 14:23 |
| yashgaroth | since they divide once a day and primary cells are a bitch to culture | 14:24 |
| archels | mhm, but they apparently found ways to deal with this when it comes to rodents. | 14:24 |
| yashgaroth | deal with what | 14:24 |
| archels | All this stuff that will go wrong in doing reverse transcription. | 14:25 |
| yashgaroth | reverse transcription isn't the worry, the integration is | 14:25 |
| archels | sure, I meant the procedure from A to Z | 14:25 |
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| yashgaroth | but yes there is work on getting an integrase that has preferred sites that aren't near oncogenes | 14:26 |
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| archels | "make your fingernails glow green!" | 14:26 |
| archels | ^ How long is this going to take? | 14:26 |
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| yashgaroth | until your body recognized GFP is foreign and destroys your fingernails* | 14:26 |
| archels | Why doesn't this happen in rodents? | 14:27 |
| yashgaroth | it does, or commonly they're bred to have shit immune systems | 14:27 |
| archels | ah, I wasn't aware of this. | 14:27 |
| yashgaroth | it's generally a good thing, since if you didn't have it you'd be dead | 14:28 |
| archels | This happens even if you don't overexpress gene products to the extreme? | 14:28 |
| yashgaroth | you might get lucky for a while, or even forever...such is biology | 14:28 |
| yashgaroth | the main problem is how to make the immune system tolerant to a protein of our choice | 14:28 |
| strangewarp | Well then, the obvious solution is to zap the native immune system, and build a custom-tailored immune system from the ground up. Easy peasy | 14:29 |
| yashgaroth | so you make it ignore the viral vector and the gene product by making it think they're self-antigens, or by killing any cell that reacts to them | 14:29 |
| yashgaroth | but we don't know how to do either, at least not reliably | 14:30 |
| archels | yashgaroth: Where does the immune system attack? Provided none of these protein products make it outside the cell or even to the membrane, it has to be some sort of apoptotic process? | 14:30 |
| yashgaroth | all cells display fragments of proteins on their surface, which are checked by immune cells | 14:30 |
| yashgaroth | see: major histocompatibility complex | 14:30 |
| archels | aha, maybe this is a pathway amenable to intervention. | 14:31 |
| yashgaroth | believe me, viruses have tried that | 14:31 |
| archels | heh, good point. | 14:32 |
| yashgaroth | it's going to be a little difficult to design a protein that blocks the immune system, without creating a supervirus | 14:32 |
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| archels | nod | 14:32 |
| Burn_ | isn't that what successful viruses *do*? | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | optogenetics is not going to replace electrodes | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | anselm loves to rant about how much his optogenetics work sucks | 14:33 |
| archels | anselm who? | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | http://anselmlevskaya.com/ | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | he lives with fenn | 14:34 |
| archels | well, I'd love to discuss this with him | 14:35 |
| archels | I suppose present-day optogenetics suffers from these same immune system responses. | 14:35 |
| Burn_ | I was under the impression that a crippled virus with its anti-immune / replication machinery intact but its "payload" disabled was a laboratory-grade tool | 14:35 |
| yashgaroth | anti-immune/replication machinery is the payload | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | archels: he replies to the diybio list if you write something interesting | 14:36 |
| yashgaroth | we don't exploit their ability to avoid the immune system, since cells used in the laboratory are outside of a body and outside of an immune system | 14:36 |
| archels | "cells used in the laboratory are outside of a body" seems an overgeneralisation? | 14:37 |
| yashgaroth | yes, I forgot lab animals | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | HSV possesses multiple features that make it an ideal vector | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | for delivery of genes into the nervous system. In particular, | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | it accepts large molecules of exogenous DNA; it infects nondividing | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | cells from a wide range of hosts with high efficiency; | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | it enables strong expression of foreign genes; it is | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | episomal, and thereby does not cause integration effects; | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | its infection of postmitotic cells is persistent; and HSV-1 | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | particles can be concentrated to relatively high titers. Because | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | of these characteristics of HSV-1, and because it is | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | neurotropic, it is currently one of the best viral vectors available | 14:38 |
| Burn_ | for functional analysis of genes in the nervous system. | 14:38 |
| yashgaroth | yes | 14:39 |
| Burn_ | HSV genome are dispensable for its | 14:39 |
| Burn_ | growth in cells in vitro. This knowledge was used to create | 14:39 |
| Burn_ | ‘‘crippled’’ recombinant HSV-1 viruses that could be used | 14:39 |
| Burn_ | as vectors for gene transfer into cells | 14:39 |
| yashgaroth | and? | 14:40 |
| yashgaroth | I wasn't implying people don't use viruses | 14:40 |
| Burn_ | sorry, I'm woefully ignorant about this stuff | 14:40 |
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| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/ could use some contributions if you guys want to complain about those things | 14:41 |
| Burn_ | In gene therapy, why do the immune cells not destroy the cells infected with the delivery virus? | 14:42 |
| yashgaroth | they do | 14:43 |
| yashgaroth | that's why it's common to use heavy amounts of immunosuppressives | 14:43 |
| yashgaroth | and, since the gene they're delivering with said therapy is likely not already made by the patient's cells, the immune system will attack that too | 14:44 |
| Burn_ | and the virus isn't even programmed to replicatie in vivo? | 14:44 |
| yashgaroth | never | 14:44 |
| Burn_ | requiring a means of conjuring up whole grams of in vitro viral cultures | 14:44 |
| Burn_ | which I'm not sure is even a thing | 14:45 |
| yashgaroth | no, it is | 14:45 |
| Lukas_ | Kanzure: What is your input on utah arrays? | 14:45 |
| yashgaroth | it's rather expensive though, and you wouldn't believe the regulations on that stuff | 14:45 |
| Burn_ | Do they go whole-hog with gene therapy and do total body radiaton / isolation room? or just mild immunosuppressants | 14:46 |
| yashgaroth | not that there's been a lot of trials, but generally it'd be quite heavy | 14:47 |
| yashgaroth | it really only becomes practical when you have a serious condition | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | Lukas_: have fun reading about em.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/ | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | i also have some links there for purchasing utah array things | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | .. somewhere | 14:48 |
| Lukas_ | If you find them please let me know | 14:48 |
| Lukas_ | and thank you | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | i meant, in that folder. | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | docl: you could also check out what 3scan uses for their ultramicrotome knifes | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | knives. | 14:50 |
| Lukas_ | ah, sweet. I'll start reading through it | 14:50 |
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| yashgaroth | I should clarify my last statement with 'and are using viral vectors to deliver a protein your body doesn't recognize' | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | neil armstrong died? fuck | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | now who do we have to represent the human race? that drunk one? | 14:54 |
| yashgaroth | he was so disappointed in his son's doping scandal | 14:54 |
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| loanshark | hello | 15:04 |
| OldCoder | loanshark, hi again | 15:05 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, hi | 15:05 |
| loanshark | :3 | 15:06 |
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| OldCoder | loanshark, wb here too | 16:10 |
| loanshark | aaty | 16:11 |
| loanshark | why is kanzure dubious? | 16:11 |
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| loanshark | hi syloh | 16:13 |
| loanshark | sylph_mako* | 16:14 |
| sylph_mako | hello. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a student of logic and computation who digs interface design and systems programming, I also analyze the fuck out of every piece of culture I come across, this usually results in staunch separatism/radicalism. | 16:17 |
| loanshark | hello | 16:17 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:17 |
| loanshark | i am interested in making organisms glow under a blacklight | 16:18 |
| loanshark | ^^ | 16:18 |
| sylph_mako | Ah. I'm not the guy to talk to for that. | 16:18 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:19 |
| nmz787 | hi sylph_mako | 16:20 |
| klafka1 | i'm interested in the transcendent bliss of learning a system whose accuracy approaches the bayes error of the model | 16:20 |
| loanshark | can i discuss some simple genetic engineering with someone? | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | fuck blacklights | 16:23 |
| loanshark | O.o | 16:24 |
| loanshark | whats wrong with backlights? | 16:24 |
| brownies | i am interested in engineering a glowing cat | 16:24 |
| loanshark | same premises as replicating GloFish isn't it? | 16:24 |
| brownies | perhaps | 16:25 |
| loanshark | brownies how would you engineer a glowing cat? | 16:26 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:26 |
| loanshark | interested in your method | 16:26 |
| brownies | by adding GFP to a regular cat | 16:26 |
| brownies | i'm hazy on the details beyond that | 16:26 |
| loanshark | xD | 16:26 |
| loanshark | i was looking for the details | 16:27 |
| loanshark | you add a gene that makes GFP to a kitty embryo | 16:27 |
| yashgaroth | pretty much | 16:28 |
| loanshark | you can get that gene from squid | 16:28 |
| yashgaroth | or a vendor | 16:28 |
| loanshark | isolate it (i don't know how), create a plasmid and then clone it with bacteria | 16:29 |
| loanshark | squid is cheaper than a vendor | 16:30 |
| loanshark | but making a plasmid is hard | 16:30 |
| yashgaroth | haha no | 16:30 |
| loanshark | how come squid is not cheaper than a vendor? | 16:31 |
| brownies | because squids are free range | 16:31 |
| yashgaroth | a. it's a fucking jellyfish | 16:31 |
| loanshark | i found a site that sells primers for $4.90 each, any length | 16:31 |
| loanshark | o.o | 16:32 |
| yashgaroth | b. it's one specific species of jellyfish | 16:32 |
| loanshark | uhhhh | 16:32 |
| loanshark | O.o | 16:32 |
| loanshark | squids aren't jellyfish | 16:32 |
| yashgaroth | no shit sherlock | 16:32 |
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| loanshark | o.o | 16:32 |
| nmz787 | or... just buy a glofish from your local pet store | 16:32 |
| brownies | yashgaroth: hahaha | 16:32 |
| nmz787 | or... google the sequence, and have it synthesized | 16:33 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: http://staff.aist.go.jp/zhen.yang/socket2_english.htm | 16:33 |
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| bkero | Danger | 16:33 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: http://staff.aist.go.jp/zhen.yang/world-to-chip_socket.htm | 16:33 |
| bkero | I am stuck in Minneapolis | 16:33 |
| bkero | send halp | 16:33 |
| bkero | kanzure: who do we know in MSP? | 16:33 |
| @kanzure | uhh | 16:33 |
| @kanzure | jeremiah petit | 16:33 |
| bkero | o? | 16:34 |
| @kanzure | jeremiah petit <mdredeemer@gmail.com> | 16:34 |
| @kanzure | 612-267-2542 | 16:34 |
| @kanzure | mention my name and he'll probably be down for things | 16:34 |
| bkero | 2nd tier connection on linkedin | 16:34 |
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| bkero | hrm | 16:35 |
| loanshark | yashgaroth: you sir, are an asshole | 16:36 |
| @kanzure | but he's right all the time, so we keep him around | 16:36 |
| yashgaroth | I'm not the one who expects to get taught the entirety of biology via irc | 16:36 |
| yashgaroth | every week someone comes in and has the exact same questions | 16:36 |
| yashgaroth | hi I don't know the first thing about biology but I want to make my cat glow | 16:37 |
| loanshark | well I'm sorry that i haven't gone to college for bioengineering | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | here's a book to read | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | oh I don't read books | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | you don't need to go to college for this | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | but it's a lot of information | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | go on the internet, find a textbook, start reading; none of the information in there isn | 16:38 |
| loanshark | I have molecular biology of the gene | 16:38 |
| yashgaroth | 't worthwhile | 16:38 |
| yashgaroth | ok get readin' | 16:38 |
| loanshark | and molecular biology of the cell | 16:38 |
| bkero | pinginated | 16:38 |
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| loanshark | i haven't seen anything in those books on the actual practical side of things | 16:39 |
| nmz787 | loanshark: i like mol bio of the gene | 16:39 |
| loanshark | which is what i came here to try to understand | 16:39 |
| brownies | yashgaroth: hahah | 16:39 |
| yashgaroth | you'll understand why they're practical when you have to troubleshoot your pcr | 16:39 |
| brownies | i like how "glowing cat" has become the canonical dumb question | 16:39 |
| yashgaroth | or do anything outside of following a protocol for that matter | 16:39 |
| nmz787 | loanshark: there is also diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio | 16:39 |
| nmz787 | diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/ | 16:39 |
| brownies | i searched on amazon for "engineering a glowing cat for dummies" but no luck | 16:39 |
| nmz787 | brownies: lol | 16:39 |
| @kanzure | what's the max dosage of uv radiation for a cat anyway? | 16:40 |
| chris_99 | but doesn't this mean wherever you're cat go's you have to shine a UV light on it, i'd count that as a big disadvantage | 16:40 |
| chris_99 | heh good point kanzure | 16:41 |
| brownies | chris_99: attach a UV light to the collar, genius | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: yes.. uv sucks | 16:41 |
| nmz787 | anyone in here know pyBrain? | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | i mean, gfp sucks, not uv | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | klafka might know pybrain | 16:41 |
| brownies | alright, forget GFP, we'll get some of the bioluminescent stuff from those jellyfish | 16:41 |
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| @kanzure | so, avery did jellyfish gfp extraction i think | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | at bosslab | 16:42 |
| hankx7787 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0 | 16:42 |
| loanshark | yashgartoth: i have no intention of doing any genetic experiments for at least a year. I understand there is a lot to learn and i would like my first project to be engineering GloFish because from what i have read it seems achievable in a 'garage' laboratory | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | hankx7787: what is it? | 16:42 |
| brownies | you can make glowing fish in a garage? | 16:42 |
| chris_99 | some strange music video kanzure | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | oops, i mean avery was doing squid gfp extraction (or, it's one of the microbes it has on its skin?) | 16:43 |
| yashgaroth | yeah squid are symbiotic with some glowing bacteria | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | right | 16:43 |
| ParahSailin_ | humans and an obscure opossum are the only animals that can get skin cancer from uv alone | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin_: is there a citation for this | 16:44 |
| ParahSailin_ | boox | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | botox? | 16:44 |
| yashgaroth | loanshark you'll need to be doing microinjection even for fish, which is really beyond 'garage' at the moment | 16:44 |
| loanshark | yashgaroth: so your advice for someone trying to understand the practical side of genetic engineering outside of a college and with no access to a laboratory is pretty much "fuck off" | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: no | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | not at all | 16:44 |
| loanshark | thats what it sounded like | 16:44 |
| yashgaroth | no, read a book without complaining that every page is not "step X in making a cat glow" | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | maybe you just don't like his answers | 16:45 |
| loanshark | i was not complaing | 16:45 |
| loanshark | when did i complain | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | you just did.. | 16:45 |
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| loanshark | i was asking and trying to get information so i can piece it together in my head | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | have you read the faq yet? | 16:45 |
| loanshark | when did i complain about there not being step-by-step instructions on how to make glowing fish? | 16:45 |
| loanshark | Kanzure: i did | 16:46 |
| yashgaroth | [16:39:10] .:loanshark:. i haven't seen anything in those books on the actual practical side of things | 16:46 |
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| @kanzure | also i linked you to protocol-online.org for the superpractical-side of things | 16:47 |
| brownies | i think this brings up an interesting thought though | 16:47 |
| brownies | there really ought to be a reading list | 16:47 |
| loanshark | practical as in using primers in a pcr | 16:47 |
| brownies | otherwise the "read a book" train of thought is just... not very good. | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | brownies: a reading list of what, papers? | 16:47 |
| brownies | kanzure: books | 16:48 |
| nmz787 | well honestly reading the book is what you get when you go to college | 16:48 |
| brownies | for beginners to go from noob to not-noob | 16:48 |
| yashgaroth | oh, molecular cloning: a lab manual is a good one too | 16:48 |
| nmz787 | loanshark: there may be some online bio courses you could watch | 16:48 |
| ParahSailin_ | http://vet.sagepub.com/content/28/1/55.full.pdf | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | really you just need one primary-molecular-biology book, maaaybe a microbiology book, and then protocols | 16:48 |
| ParahSailin_ | i remembered slightly incorrectly | 16:48 |
| loanshark | nmz787: like college courses? | 16:48 |
| brownies | kanzure: you understand how useless that is right | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | brownies: that's what biology has | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | brownies: yes i do understand how useless it is | 16:49 |
| brownies | a list of links to specific books | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | brownies: but that doesn't mean you should give up | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | brownies: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/better-questions/#books | 16:49 |
| brownies | kanzure: that is not useful | 16:49 |
| yashgaroth | surely there's some MIT lecture video where a guy rambles for 3 hours about gene manipulation | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | also.. | 16:49 |
| brownies | "yeah, bro, just learn about molecular biology and lab procedures" | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | brownies: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/educational/#index4h1 | 16:49 |
| nmz787 | ParahSailin_: that doesn't seem to say ONLY humans and that opposum get UV induced cancer | 16:49 |
| brownies | "here's a link to a high school textbook on introductory biology." | 16:49 |
| brownies | do you see the disconnect? | 16:50 |
| brownies | do you see the missing piece? -_- | 16:50 |
| ParahSailin_ | <ParahSailin_> i remembered slightly incorrectly | 16:50 |
| brownies | kanzure: ah ok. that second link is much better. | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | brownies: there's also that student 'synthetic biology for n00bs' comic | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | *stupid | 16:50 |
| nmz787 | brownies: loanshark: in biotech college i watched lectures, attended labs, and read the book... then i found DIYbio | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | this might be good to read too: | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/Image:SB_Primer_100707.pdf | 16:51 |
| nmz787 | but you really need to read the book, because ppl don't want to re-write the book in IRC | 16:51 |
| yashgaroth | especially not me, and especially not when I'm sober | 16:51 |
| loanshark | nmz787: i can't go to college for 4 years | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: why not?? | 16:52 |
| nmz787 | yes that SB primer looks good | 16:52 |
| @kanzure | sign up for a community college class. they can't discriminate based on prior felonies or w/e. | 16:52 |
| loanshark | nmz787: I am in the military. I can't do any intensive courses because my job can get very intensive | 16:52 |
| loanshark | and i will have to miss school | 16:52 |
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| nmz787 | loanshark: that's why i said online classes | 16:52 |
| nmz787 | where it's just a flash video of a real MIT lecture | 16:53 |
| nmz787 | and links to the lab protocols | 16:53 |
| yashgaroth | oh molecular cell biology is a good book too | 16:53 |
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| @kanzure | brownies: please clarify on what level of reasonable you think http://openwetware.org/wiki/Image:SB_Primer_100707.pdf is | 16:54 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: what was that wikipedia book cathal wrote | 16:54 |
| loanshark | nmz787: i want to steer clear of biomedical engineering right? it sounds more like interfacing biology with medical diagnostic and life support systems | 16:54 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: it was just a collection of wikipedia articles | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | loanshark: unless you like that kind of stuff | 16:55 |
| yashgaroth | BME is all implants and junk | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | loanshark: it's more macro sized engineering than engineering DNA | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | loanshark: what yashgaroth said | 16:55 |
| loanshark | nmz787: more interested in the engineering of DNA | 16:55 |
| yashgaroth | there's more fluid dynamics than...biology | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: yeah do you know how to find it | 16:56 |
| nmz787 | what yashgaroth said | 16:56 |
| loanshark | ok, i g2g, but ill bbl | 16:56 |
| nmz787 | cool | 16:56 |
| nmz787 | see ya | 16:56 |
| loanshark | thanks for the links to those biology pages :) | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | bleh | 16:57 |
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| @kanzure | http://igem.org/README | 17:03 |
| nmz787 | weird | 17:03 |
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| brownies | kanzure: skimming the table of contents, it looks solid. | 17:12 |
| brownies | i do not think it is unreasonable to ask that people have a basic scientific foundation and common-sense biology knowledge (e.g. "what is DNA") before engaging with this stuff | 17:12 |
| @kanzure | oh so there is a high school igem this year http://2012hs.igem.org/Main_Page | 17:19 |
| @kanzure | uh.. was. | 17:19 |
| @kanzure | the austin team withdrew? damn it | 17:20 |
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| @kanzure | wtf openwetware was given $1mil | 17:47 |
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| foucist | but not diybio is that it/ :P | 17:48 |
| @kanzure | hrm? | 17:48 |
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| delinquentme | Does anyone know *definitively* if the OSH logo is allowed to be displayed along side of other logos ... so long as the collective work is open source? | 18:10 |
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| @kanzure | delinquentme: i think they were going to have a trademark approval process | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | but i haven't heard anything about it recently | 18:15 |
| delinquentme | so like I could display my logo w the OSH logo w/o any issues? | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | is there like a primary governing body on this? | 18:16 |
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| @kanzure | delinquentme: which OSH logo? the OSHWA logo is from OSHWA | 18:33 |
| @kanzure | the other OSH logo is probably from bruce perens | 18:33 |
| @kanzure | so what's the deal with openwetware anyway? | 18:34 |
| @kanzure | it looks like they fired bill flanagan in 2008 | 18:34 |
| @kanzure | and nobody has been steering the ship since then | 18:34 |
| foucist | kanzure: is your primary os linux? | 18:35 |
| @kanzure | foucist: yes. but i also have images of mac, windows, android and some other crap laying around. | 18:38 |
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| @kanzure | boop | 21:35 |
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| @kanzure | win 4 | 21:41 |
| @kanzure | ifjdkaslfj;asd | 21:41 |
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| foucist | esc 4 | 22:16 |
| foucist | alt 4 | 22:16 |
| foucist | be-a-real-man 4 | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | :( | 22:19 |
| @kanzure | alt 4 is mapped to my terminal instead | 22:19 |
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| foucist | ah, why not use esc instead? i do | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | oh look, esc-4 works. | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | hooray | 22:20 |
| foucist | ;) | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | what about esc-138? | 22:20 |
| foucist | esc-0 is for win 10, then it carries over to the next row.. esc-q for 11 | 22:20 |
| foucist | yeah have to use /w 138 for 138 i reckon | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | esc-j doesn't seem to do anything | 22:21 |
| foucist | i haven't had any problems up to 18 windows, not sure about beyond | 22:22 |
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| @kanzure | "ince 911 Snail mail can take weeks to arrive. Everything that is sent to the Hill in DC is sent out for anthrax screening. It is very difficult to send reactionary issue snail mail unless it is hand delivered." | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | hmm who is the company who is doing the anthrax screening? | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | *that is doing | 22:26 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Aug 26 00:00:07 2012 | ||
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