| --- Log opened Sat Sep 08 00:00:20 2012 | ||
| kanzure | Juul: hi | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- Juul [~Juul@2602:304:cda4:68d0:218:deff:fe2a:4335] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 00:29 | |
| Mariu | kanzure: I can't get it to start, the game Survivor | 01:34 |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:51 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:57 | |
| sylph_mako | It's clearly a game about the inevitable breakdown of romantic relationships formed by unrepentantly ugly manipulators. | 02:34 |
| sylph_mako | I wonder if the original author made it from experience of being the manipulator. That would tell a seriously affectingly bittersweet tale. | 02:35 |
| sylph_mako | That they knew precisely what their problem was, well enough to put it into art- in a highly limited fledgeling art-form, no less. And yet, the nature of the illness would mean that they could not move beyond the cycle of aggressive breaking down of defenses, infiltration, being identified and harmed themselves, then the explosive end, and the emptiness that follows that. | 02:38 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:48 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:09 | |
| -!- loanshark [~loanshark@ip72-218-125-108.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:39 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:13 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 04:13 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:13 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:53 | |
| -!- TiredCoder is now known as OldCoder | 05:15 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 05:31 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:32 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 05:41 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-152-37.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 05:45 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:49 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@122.123.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 05:49 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-111-237.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] | 05:59 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-200-58.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:37 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-200-58.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 06:42 | |
| chris_99 | http://wiki.emfcamp.org/wiki/EMF2012_Video | 06:48 |
| chris_99 | some talks you guys may be interested in | 06:49 |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-200-58.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:59 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] | 07:24 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:24 | |
| -!- docl [~luke@unaffiliated/docl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:30 | |
| -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:51 | |
| -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.53.136.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 08:19 | |
| kanzure | beepity boop. | 08:38 |
| docl | howdy | 08:42 |
| -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.53.136.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:49 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:56 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-111-237.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:51 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 10:11 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:23 | |
| kanzure | making web/javascript stuff less awful i guess: http://ryanflorence.com/2012/coffeescript-source-maps/ | 10:23 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-29-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:29 | |
| brownies | kanzure: holy crap | 10:45 |
| brownies | maybe we can finally get rid of javascript once and for all | 10:46 |
| eudoxia | javascript is kinda cool | 10:54 |
| eudoxia | i made a content slider with it the other day | 10:54 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-29-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 11:27 | |
| kanzure | eudoxia: content sliders don't even begin to describe the pain and suffering you can achieve with javascript apps | 11:56 |
| brownies | heh | 12:00 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 12:11 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:12 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] | 12:20 | |
| -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:39 | |
| -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 12:40 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 12:43 | |
| -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 13:00 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 13:04 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:05 | |
| kanzure | http://humanamuh.de/ "HumanamuH predicts which people will enrich your life and lets you meet them" | 13:07 |
| kanzure | i wonder if i can dump my data into this | 13:07 |
| brownies | kanzure: have you tried it? what is it? how is it? | 13:12 |
| chris_99 | i'd be very interested to know what algorithm they're using | 13:12 |
| kanzure | brownies: it's awful so far. it suffers from a pretty standard "chicken and egg" problem. | 13:14 |
| kanzure | it would be better if the developer used it for himself for a while to build up data | 13:14 |
| kanzure | your only option is to use the search feature where you can search by postal code or coordinates.. which of course will only display a list of search results with icons, which is completely worthless. | 13:14 |
| kanzure | and it looks like most people don't fill out their profile, so there's no way to figure out if some random search result is interesting or not | 13:15 |
| brownies | yeah, i see the same thing | 13:17 |
| brownies | naturally, i also didn't fill out my porfiel | 13:17 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:18 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 13:32 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-239-54.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:54 | |
| eudoxia | kanzure: i thought you liked javascript? (for some reason) | 14:01 |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:06 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:06 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 14:10 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:18 | |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 14:20 | |
| kanzure | eudoxia: i write a lot of it and i get paid to do so, but no.. javascript web development stuff is painful and infuriating | 14:21 |
| kanzure | coffeescript makes it slightly less infuriating | 14:21 |
| eudoxia | use C++ programs through CGI :3 | 14:21 |
| kanzure | that doesn't solve the same problems that javascript does for client-side stuff. | 14:22 |
| kanzure | CGI is a pretty bad idea for C++ web apps anyway. | 14:22 |
| chris_99 | write a special webserver just for your app ;) | 14:23 |
| eudoxia | or write a mod_[app] for apache | 14:23 |
| eudoxia | that's basically all you can do from what I understand | 14:23 |
| kanzure | apache isn't the only web server option | 14:24 |
| kanzure | :( | 14:24 |
| eudoxia | okay fine write modules for the other webservers | 14:24 |
| kanzure | what does this have to do with javascript/browser stuff? | 14:24 |
| eudoxia | oh i don't know | 14:24 |
| eudoxia | what problems does javascript have for client side stuff? | 14:25 |
| eudoxia | just for future ref | 14:25 |
| kanzure | basically all the problems that javascript mvc frameworks solve | 14:26 |
| kanzure | or that underscore solves. | 14:26 |
| kanzure | and then there's the endless list of xss issues you need to be constantly aware of | 14:26 |
| chris_99 | that's not necessarily a fault of JS though | 14:29 |
| eudoxia | ah i see | 14:29 |
| -!- docl [~luke@unaffiliated/docl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:44 | |
| brownies | -bash: pip: command not found | 14:48 |
| brownies | o.O | 14:48 |
| brownies | has it been that long since i wrote any python... | 14:48 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@122.123.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:16 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:36 | |
| kanzure | oh also, life before commonjs or requirejs wasn't life, it was several simultaneously intersecting circles of hell | 15:44 |
| -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:53 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@206.196.184.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:55 | |
| kanzure | hmm. i want a obfuscated-js-to-coffeescript tool. | 16:01 |
| chris_99 | would http://js2coffee.org/ work, dunno if it's any good though | 16:03 |
| kanzure | i've used that one before. | 16:08 |
| kanzure | buut obfuscated js still looks obfuscated on the other end | 16:08 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] | 16:08 | |
| kanzure | for instance, if the obfuscator only uses the variable 'a', 'a' will still be present everywhere | 16:08 |
| chris_99 | indeed, no way to fix that though is there? | 16:09 |
| kanzure | sure there is.. if you use a lexer you can just rename tokens as you go, as long as you are looking at scopes properly | 16:10 |
| kanzure | (unless variables are being used remotely, in which case you'd probably have to dump out a name lookup table wrapper thing) | 16:10 |
| kanzure | e.g. "a.b.c" becomes "a.lookup['b'].lookup['c']" if your fixer changes "a.b" to "a.beautiful" | 16:12 |
| chris_99 | oh you mean you want to refactor the token names? | 16:12 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:12 |
| kanzure | under what circumstance would "a" be a useful variable name? | 16:13 |
| kanzure | to me, i mean. | 16:13 |
| chris_99 | wonder if theres an IDE to do that in, eclipse works well for refactoring java for instance | 16:13 |
| kanzure | fuck IDEs | 16:14 |
| kanzure | anselm getting poetic in da house: https://groups.google.com/forum/?noredirect=&fromgroups=#!msg/diybio/GxRTESzUWUI/IS-zLDlUu_YJ | 16:37 |
| kanzure | "Proteins don't "execute". They fold and unfold. They bounce into things a billion times a second. They stick to things. They unstick from things. They wiggle, sometimes into new shapes depending on what's sticking to them or if they were tagged by other proteins. Sometimes they catalyze chemistry." | 16:38 |
| kanzure | "Let me reemphasize the point here. Programmers can exist because WE built computers -explicitly- to support those abstraction layers." | 16:39 |
| kanzure | "The Wizards of EE formed a powerful magical convenant that protects all the gentle digital denizens from concerning themselves with the horrors of physical reality that lays sealed beneath the woven lithography. It took them decades and a trillion dollars to build those magical seals." | 16:39 |
| kanzure | "In biology we haven't even begun to form powerful enough magic to seal away the chaos of physical reality. Over the next few decades we'll almost certainly rebuild simple microbial cells (piecemeal, haltingly, not all at once) with an increasingly modularized set of signaling components and metabolic cores whose behavior we'll have -evolved- to be isolated and predictable." | 16:39 |
| kanzure | "It will take bajillions of manhours to do that, and it will almost entirely be done by limited guesswork and brute-force screening (i.e. traditional engineering). Only once we've untangled the gordian knot of the cell will we be able to construct these magical abstraction layers atop it.... and they'll probably be leaky layers at that. | 16:39 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 16:39 | |
| kanzure | "Yes, but what -isn't- hackable? Look, my gripe here is that cells are really -nothing- like a von neumann machine. They're both nonlinear dynamical systems that happen to carry lots of "code" that controls their evolution in time." | 16:40 |
| kanzure | "That's the strongest similarity. Cells deserve more than crappy metaphors to other kinds of systems. If y'all really want to improve how we engineer cells, it's worth taking a few years to begin understanding how they really work." | 16:40 |
| kanzure | "As Bryan pointed out, SynBio suffered for a long time under the domination of a naive pack of EE/CS enthusiasts who couldn't pull the blinkers from their eyes to see that they weren't operating in the same kind of world anymore. My recommendation to DiyBio enthusiasts is not to repeat their mistake." | 16:40 |
| eudoxia | I have a stupid question | 16:41 |
| kanzure | yess? | 16:42 |
| eudoxia | won't making proteins isolated, deterministic components affect their efficiency? | 16:42 |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@host213-120-49-54.range213-120.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 16:42 | |
| kanzure | what do you mean by "making proteins isolated" ? | 16:42 |
| kanzure | protein effiency varies by concentration of salts and all sorts of other compounds, and even temperature | 16:42 |
| eudoxia | I mean, biology doesn't need components to be understandable because there's no-one to understand them, it just makes them go fast since nobody actually has (or had, until humanity came along) to read the blueprints and try to understand them | 16:42 |
| eudoxia | "...whose behavior we'll have -evolved- to be isolated and predictable" | 16:42 |
| kanzure | look at the spec sheet for running reverse transcriptase pcr.. lotta specific conditions you have to hit to get the proteins to, you know, do their god damn jobs | 16:43 |
| kanzure | or even the regular kind of pcr (but it's somewhat of a simple protocol in comparison to the other crap going on inside cells) | 16:43 |
| ParahSailin_ | amen | 16:44 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin_: so the new plan is to join alcor and start a death metal band | 16:45 |
| kanzure | we can do music videos next to all the corpsicles | 16:45 |
| eudoxia | you can use the LN2 vapor as a smoke machine | 16:45 |
| kanzure | that's the spirit! | 16:45 |
| eudoxia | I feel so stupid every time I say liquid nitrogen vapor | 16:48 |
| kanzure | nah you're stating the origin | 16:48 |
| kanzure | like "blood vapor" | 16:48 |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@host86-137-13-64.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:49 | |
| eudoxia | I guess that makes sense | 16:49 |
| ParahSailin_ | liquid nitrogen explains why the vapor is cold enough to condense all the water out of the air | 16:51 |
| eudoxia | I was going to reply with "but I thought it was the LN2 that was vaporizing" but then I realized it is colorless, and the opaque gray is water vapor | 16:52 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-239-54.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 16:59 | |
| skorket | is anyone here into nootropics? | 17:04 |
| AdrianG | yes. | 17:07 |
| AdrianG | erryone. | 17:07 |
| skorket | May I ask what your vitamin regiment is? | 17:07 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@122.123.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 17:14 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 17:15 | |
| kanzure | skorket: i use adderall. others in here are somewhat more thoughtful in terms of their regiments, though. | 17:25 |
| skorket | kanzure, from that link you posted the other day, that guy reports having all the effects of riddlin (or was it adderall) from just over the counter vitamin supplements. You find adderall to be pretty effective? | 17:28 |
| kanzure | yep. | 17:29 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-212-80.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:29 | |
| kanzure | it's unreasonably effective in my case. but for others it has negative effects like dependency or weird "i can't get anything done" effects. | 17:30 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:31 | |
| skorket | You have it through some type of health insurance? | 17:32 |
| skorket | hope I'm not overstepping | 17:33 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-212-80.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 17:33 | |
| kanzure | skorket: it used to be through health insurance until my health insurance began to suck | 17:34 |
| yashgaroth | he pays out the ass for it | 17:34 |
| kanzure | so now i just pay for it out of pocket | 17:34 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: out the ass is relative | 17:34 |
| yashgaroth | compared to health insurance copays, but yeah | 17:35 |
| kanzure | my last pickup the other day was $185 but i was at a new pharmacy.. the other sucky pharmacy i go to has been selling it at $240/mo. | 17:35 |
| kanzure | well, it turns out that on my health insurance plan the copays would be higher than the actual cost, or something like that. i just don't care. | 17:35 |
| ParahSailin_ | sr is cheaper than that | 17:43 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 17:48 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-92-212-80.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:50 | |
| -!- loanshark [~loanshark@ip72-218-125-108.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Quit: loanshark] | 18:16 | |
| -!- Mokbortolan_ [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 19:15 | |
| -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:15 | |
| -!- Guest22963 [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 19:40 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:43 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-200-58.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:05 | |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-200-58.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:06 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:26 | |
| kanzure | delinquentme: hi | 20:41 |
| delinquentme | howwwdy! | 20:41 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, any advice on coming into a legacy project and doing time estimates? | 20:44 |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:45 | |
| -!- Charlie is now known as Guest87811 | 20:46 | |
| kanzure | delinquentme: charge at least 10x more than you think | 20:47 |
| kanzure | and remember, a 400 hour project is only 10 weeks | 20:48 |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:48 | |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:53 | |
| -!- OldCoder [~OldCoder@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:53 | |
| -!- OldCoder [~OldCoder@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:56 | |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:58 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:11 | |
| -!- OldCoder [~OldCoder@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:22 | |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:22 | |
| -!- OldCoder [~OldCoder@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:23 | |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@c-69-181-140-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:23 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:29 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 23:11 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 23:39 | |
| --- Log closed Sun Sep 09 00:00:21 2012 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!