| --- Log opened Wed Sep 19 00:00:30 2012 | ||
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 00:01 | |
| skorket | well, that was a chore, but it should be nearly finished | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787 | what? | 00:17 |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Sanqui, bkero, fenn | 00:43 | |
| skorket | and looks like height probing is working | 00:43 |
| skorket | so, height probing to get height map | 00:43 |
| skorket | gcode generation to use the height map and interpolate z heights | 00:44 |
| skorket | I'm very close | 00:44 |
| skorket | of course, that's what I've been saying all week | 00:50 |
| nmz787 | you mean with the continuity? | 00:54 |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: Sanqui, fenn, bkero | 00:54 | |
| nmz787 | hi guys | 00:54 |
| skorket | it tests continuity to find height | 00:55 |
| nmz787 | cool | 00:57 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-183-202.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 00:57 | |
| nmz787 | hmm | 00:57 |
| nmz787 | i hadn't thought of doing that for the etcher | 00:57 |
| skorket | not as important | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | I might be able to do something with realtime sensing though | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | well, the depth of field might be pretty small | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | so the focus moving enough could mean the channels get larger and smaller | 00:59 |
| skorket | what kind of range would throw it off? | 00:59 |
| nmz787 | but that depends on the flatness (spin-coated silicone on silicon wafers), and the tilt of the whole thing relative to the gantry | 00:59 |
| nmz787 | it depends, but it would probably be 10-100microns to see a size change | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | maybe up to 500 microns | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | i havent got that far into the optics | 01:00 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-183-202.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:01 | |
| skorket | yeah, some feed back is probably a good idea | 01:04 |
| skorket | then | 01:04 |
| skorket | though I don't know how to do it on that scale | 01:06 |
| nmz787 | use cdrom focusing tech | 01:07 |
| nmz787 | basically you look at the light reflecting (or a different color with a dichroic mirror so you're not using the etching beam) back from the surface and when it's focused is when the signal at the sensor is highest | 01:09 |
| skorket | interesting | 01:09 |
| nmz787 | imagine you're looking at a target with a flashlight, the target is most illuminated (brightest) when the beam is focused rather than dispersed | 01:09 |
| nmz787 | cdroms actually use 3 sensors, to add tracking left/right ability | 01:10 |
| nmz787 | or maybe its 4 | 01:10 |
| nmz787 | 3 or 4 sensors | 01:10 |
| skorket | you're going to gut a cdrom? | 01:11 |
| nmz787 | nah | 01:13 |
| nmz787 | but i might try using a bluray drive as-in | 01:13 |
| nmz787 | as-is | 01:13 |
| nmz787 | and that has 3 lasers I think | 01:14 |
| nmz787 | with the focusing mechanism and sensor | 01:14 |
| nmz787 | but... a 600 micron focus | 01:14 |
| nmz787 | so etching could potentially foul the last lens, but i need a vacuum chamber and exhaust for the cutter anyway | 01:15 |
| skorket | once you have the laser etcher, what's your first project going to be? | 01:16 |
| nmz787 | the test pattern my friend and I made | 01:17 |
| nmz787 | oh, project | 01:17 |
| nmz787 | probably try to make a capillary gel electrophoresis chip | 01:18 |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@pool-108-39-145-80.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 02:31 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:02 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:45 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-183-202.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 03:57 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:17 | |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] | 04:18 | |
| -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:33 | |
| -!- kirka [~Kirka@95.161.252.108] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:34 | |
| kirka | I'm updating NE1 to work on recent libraries | 05:35 |
| kirka | PyQt4 and Numeric works by now | 05:35 |
| kirka | But there is this: | 05:36 |
| kirka | File "/home/user/Desktop/kanzure-nanoengineer/cad/src/model/atomtypes.py", line 97, in __init__ | 05:36 |
| kirka | if (bondvectors): | 05:36 |
| kirka | ValueError: The truth value of an array with more than one element is ambiguous. Use a.any() or a.all() | 05:36 |
| kirka | This code looks strange: | 05:36 |
| kirka | if (bondvectors): | 05:36 |
| kirka | .... | 05:36 |
| kirka | self.bondvectors = bondvectors or [] # not sure if [] (in place of None) matters | 05:36 |
| kirka | Note that bondvectors can be an array or None | 05:36 |
| kirka | That's what I call bad style which Python allows | 05:37 |
| kirka | Well, I rewritten it according to that strange logic | 05:39 |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: archels | 05:46 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:48 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: archels | 05:50 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 06:01 | |
| kirka | Not sure about this: ./cad/src/atombasehelp.c:8:#include "Numeric/arrayobject.h" | 06:03 |
| kirka | kanzure ? | 06:03 |
| -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 06:06 | |
| -!- archels [~foo@sascha.esrac.ele.tue.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:16 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:24 | |
| kirka | Attempt to call an undefined function glePolyCone | 06:37 |
| kirka | Heh, viewing the logs I see that part of what I have been doing has been done already | 06:38 |
| kirka | But splash screen is almost launching now | 06:45 |
| kirka | OpenGL.error.GLError: GLError( | 06:45 |
| kirka | err = 1282, | 06:45 |
| kirka | description = 'invalid operation', | 06:45 |
| kirka | baseOperation = glNewList, | 06:45 |
| kirka | cArguments = (3L, GL_COMPILE) | 06:45 |
| kirka | ) | 06:45 |
| kirka | Hmmh | 06:45 |
| kirka | glNewList(self._compass_dl, GL_COMPILE) | 06:45 |
| kirka | _draw_compass_geometry() | 06:45 |
| kirka | glEndList() | 06:45 |
| kirka | NE1 launched! | 06:49 |
| kirka | I commented thode lines | 06:50 |
| kirka | OpenGL seems to be broken though | 06:50 |
| kirka | kanzure ~ | 06:50 |
| -!- Lukas_ [6c115747@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.17.87.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:58 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:58 | |
| kirka | Well, now it spits a lot of backtraces in runtime | 07:00 |
| kirka | Gl canvas is thrashed | 07:00 |
| -!- NCC-A200 [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:01 | |
| -!- NCC-A200 [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Client Quit] | 07:03 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [] | 07:04 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:04 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:11 | |
| kirka | Here is my NE1 work so far: http://rghost.ru/40459375 | 07:17 |
| kirka | Runs on Ubuntu 12.04 | 07:18 |
| chris_99 | put it on github ;) | 07:18 |
| kirka | But opengl is broken | 07:18 |
| kirka | Oh, I don't have any, and I've never used code versioning system | 07:18 |
| chris_99 | ah | 07:18 |
| kirka | Maybe later | 07:18 |
| kirka | Heh | 07:18 |
| kirka | Never had a need to use git, or cvs, svn | 07:19 |
| chris_99 | it's really handy, although i still don't use them properly heh | 07:19 |
| kirka | It would be cool, if text editors themselves saved all modifications mode to file by user in their database and keeped history graph | 07:20 |
| kirka | *made | 07:21 |
| chris_99 | you could make a pretty graph from git commits | 07:22 |
| kirka | Hmmh, looks like updating OpenGL won't be an easy task | 07:27 |
| kirka | If we had OpenGL specialist here | 07:27 |
| kirka | .. | 07:27 |
| kirka | In the future computers won't contain special accelerators for graphics, I think. | 07:29 |
| kirka | Ne1 could be written with software renderer | 07:30 |
| kirka | It's simple to render atoms as sprites | 07:30 |
| Mariu | kirka, like SwiftShader ? | 07:32 |
| Mariu | oh, nevermind :p | 07:32 |
| kirka | Mariu Haven't heard about it | 07:32 |
| kirka | I like software rendering | 07:32 |
| kirka | Ah, I understand | 07:32 |
| nsh | kirka | 07:33 |
| kirka | It's probably good | 07:33 |
| Mariu | kirka, TransGaming had some contracts with CCP and developed this product, I'm not sure about other details | 07:33 |
| kirka | nsh ? | 07:33 |
| nsh | no, what would be cool is if changes to the operating system environment were stored in this way | 07:33 |
| nsh | and you could merge with other people's reconfigurations | 07:33 |
| nsh | etc. | 07:33 |
| nsh | like a respository of computer state | 07:33 |
| nsh | that way only one person has to get something working for a generic use-case with fiddly software | 07:34 |
| nsh | and others can just subscribe to their feed | 07:34 |
| kirka | nsh Yes, but it would require order of magnitude more computing power. Or you are talking about persistent memory OSes? I like Phantom OS because of this feature. | 07:34 |
| nsh | aye, there are some complicating factors :) | 07:34 |
| nsh | not aware of phantom OS - will check it out | 07:34 |
| kirka | In short it's VM based OS with OS level persistence | 07:35 |
| nsh | no pointers, eh | 07:35 |
| kirka | Programs don't need files etc | 07:35 |
| nsh | kirka, interesting, i see | 07:35 |
| nsh | object is fundamental | 07:35 |
| kirka | Yes, don't know if it's still actively developed | 07:35 |
| nsh | this would be great if people were evolved enough to do object-orientated programming correctly | 07:35 |
| nsh | which is an open question | 07:36 |
| -!- Lukas_ [6c115747@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.17.87.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 07:36 | |
| nsh | also java :( | 07:36 |
| kirka | I don't OOP should be used everywhere. I prefer functional style. | 07:36 |
| kirka | *don't think | 07:36 |
| * kirka imagines NE1 running on rod logic (super) computer swiftly with software rendering | 07:37 | |
| * nsh smiles | 07:38 | |
| kirka | Well, If I had molecular assembler, I could design this supercomputer in 4-6 months, I have some experience with CPU design, FPGAs etc | 07:39 |
| kirka | *And fabricate | 07:39 |
| kirka | To be run on such an architecture NE1 should be written in a language with simple specification | 07:39 |
| kirka | Scheme is suitable for this purpose | 07:40 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-22-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:41 | |
| eudoxia | kira: i believe thew exact opposite, that as time goes by and moore's law grinds to a halt we'll develop many more increasingly specialized chips: for trigonometry, 3D graphics, string processing, iteration, etc. | 07:42 |
| kirka | Yes, you are right | 07:43 |
| kirka | But I think that there will be some time period when people will have plenty od computing power for their purpose | 07:44 |
| kirka | *purposes | 07:44 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:44 | |
| strangewarp | I'm about confident a RaspberryPi would cover all of my potential usage-cases, outside of gaming, which I don't do much anymore | 07:44 |
| kirka | But as we will try to solve even more difficult problems, fundamental physical limits will push us to create specialised hardware | 07:45 |
| ThomasEgi | kirka, like FPGA? | 07:46 |
| eudoxia | strangewarp: I used to think that until I started doing simulations in NanoEngineer | 07:46 |
| strangewarp | eudoxia: Ha! Well, I'm just a humble musician who doesn't use bloaty softsynths, so I am a pretty specialized case | 07:47 |
| kirka | ThomasEgi They are good for a number of purposes. But for physical simulations CPUs and GPUs give more power per dollar | 07:47 |
| ThomasEgi | if you can afford to wait for the result, then yes. | 07:48 |
| kirka | Well, iF i'll have N dollars I'll have my results faster with a cluster of GPUs | 07:48 |
| kirka | FPGA are used a lot in military equipment where money do not matter | 07:49 |
| * kirka Is puzzled by NE1 opengl subsystem | 07:50 | |
| kirka | kanzure ~ | 07:50 |
| nsh | FPGA is very useful tool | 07:54 |
| nsh | 70 FPGA and some cables is even more useful | 07:54 |
| kirka | Heh | 07:55 |
| ThomasEgi | fpga is most usefull when you can't wait for results | 07:59 |
| ThomasEgi | like when you need it within a few hundret nanoseconds | 07:59 |
| kirka | Yes it is | 07:59 |
| kirka | So they are used in military, telecom signal processing, HP trading and so on | 08:00 |
| ThomasEgi | ... SCIENCE.. | 08:03 |
| kirka | LHC, yes | 08:03 |
| kirka | But these are narrow purpose computing systems | 08:03 |
| * kirka looks with awe at log of running NE1 http://pastebin.com/Xb1NZpg4 | 08:04 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:08 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:12 | |
| chris_99 | FPGAs still have pretty low clock speeds though | 08:12 |
| chris_99 | admittedly they can allow massive parallelisation though | 08:12 |
| kirka | Yes | 08:12 |
| chris_99 | so real silicon is where it's at if you want true speed i guess | 08:12 |
| kirka | And they don't have floating point multipliers, just fixed point | 08:12 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:13 | |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, true silicon chips are very expensive if you don't mass produce them | 08:14 |
| ThomasEgi | besides.. a lot of development effort | 08:14 |
| kirka | Yes | 08:14 |
| chris_99 | indeed, but if you're the military | 08:14 |
| ThomasEgi | i am not :D | 08:14 |
| kirka | That's why we have to adapt our rasks to CPUs and GPUs | 08:15 |
| ThomasEgi | best thing i can produce at home are some organic FET's .. or a couple of silicone based mosfets. but that's bout it. | 08:15 |
| chris_99 | we could make stuff with fancy 10GHz logic gates though :) | 08:15 |
| kirka | Rod logic gates :) | 08:16 |
| chris_99 | i've just found out the cheapest 'affordable' InGaAs image sensor is £1600 | 08:17 |
| chris_99 | which makes making an IR spectrometer to measure alcohol content etc. out of the question | 08:17 |
| nsh | lol | 08:25 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 08:40 | |
| -!- ShapeShiftr is now known as Sdr | 08:51 | |
| -!- Sdr is now known as SDr | 08:51 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 09:09 | |
| @kanzure | 06:03 < kirka> Not sure about this: ./cad/src/atombasehelp.c:8:#include "Numeric/arrayobject.h" | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | kirka: that's just using the numeric headers | 09:17 |
| kirka | Ok | 09:17 |
| kirka | Now NE1 runs, but opengl is broken. | 09:18 |
| kirka | Display list do not work | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | kirka: put your changes on github. go to github, sign up, go to http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer and click the button that says 'fork'. it will then give you instructions. | 09:18 |
| kirka | Oh, later | 09:18 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:18 | |
| kirka | http://pastebin.com/Xb1NZpg4 | 09:19 |
| kirka | These are runtime errors | 09:20 |
| @kanzure | i suggest changing the source code while inside the chroot | 09:20 |
| @kanzure | because then you can break 1 thing at a time without breaking other things | 09:21 |
| @kanzure | and you will know what to fix. | 09:21 |
| kirka | Hmm, but inside chroot it's difficult to manage installing new libs | 09:21 |
| kirka | kanzure Are you familiar with cad/src/graphics dir? | 09:22 |
| kirka | Problems seem to be there | 09:22 |
| @kanzure | it's ubuntu.. installing new libraries is as easy as dpkg -i newlibrary.deb | 09:22 |
| kirka | I'll try if i won't be able to get Gl working | 09:23 |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:23 | |
| kirka | Anyway, in archive I uploaded http://rghost.ru/40459375 there is also a log of changes | 09:24 |
| @kanzure | the chroot already has git installed btw | 09:24 |
| @kanzure | so just type this: | 09:24 |
| @kanzure | git add -u | 09:24 |
| @kanzure | git commit -m'description of my changes' (or if you have more to type, just type "git commit" instead of "git commit -m") | 09:24 |
| kirka | Heh, I did changes on tarball downloaded from your github | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 09:25 |
| kirka | NE1 is already running on ubuntu 12.04 | 09:25 |
| kirka | I just have to dig OpenGL code | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | ok, then go into the chroot, copy the files you have, and paste them into the chroot's version, and then you can run "git add -u" | 09:26 |
| kirka | But I'm not much familiar with deep internals like display lists | 09:26 |
| kirka | Okay, if you need it to read changes, then I'll do it | 09:26 |
| kirka | >Are you familiar with cad/src/graphics dir? | 09:27 |
| @kanzure | what about it | 09:28 |
| kirka | I have already asked some opengl people, they say that display lists are old | 09:28 |
| kirka | Look at | 09:28 |
| kirka | http://pastebin.com/Xb1NZpg4 | 09:29 |
| kirka | Opengl is major source od runtime errors | 09:29 |
| kirka | If you haven't worked with it, or you don't have time, it's ok | 09:30 |
| kirka | I'll try do what I can to get it working | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | i don't know why you don't listen to me. | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | do you think i'm wrong? if so, you should tell me. | 09:31 |
| kirka | Oh, that's just I'm not used to code versioning systems and try not tu use them as long as possible | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | yes but also the whole point of the chroot is to make upgrading nanoengineer easier | 09:32 |
| kirka | Hmm, yes | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | right now there's an unknown number of broken things | 09:33 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-22-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 09:33 | |
| kirka | But I'm not used to chroot, and it adds X issues | 09:33 |
| @kanzure | for example, there might be 20 other things wrong with nanoengineer besides opengl | 09:33 |
| @kanzure | in the chroot, those things are working. | 09:33 |
| kirka | Anyway, if I'll make progrss, I'll upload working version | 09:33 |
| kirka | Hmm | 09:33 |
| @kanzure | so you just choose one thing at a time instead (like numpy -> numeric, which nmz787 already did anyway) | 09:33 |
| kirka | I'll try | 09:33 |
| kirka | I'm not as serious about supporting NE1 as you are, though. If I will understand that it will be easier (and more fun) to rewrite it in another language and with another architecture, I'll do it. | 09:36 |
| kirka | We are not in a hurry anyway. | 09:37 |
| kirka | But i promise that as I'll make progress I'll upload working versions. | 09:37 |
| @kanzure | please don't do that. | 09:38 |
| @kanzure | it's much better if you just use git | 09:38 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 09:38 |
| kirka | Okay | 09:38 |
| kirka | I can always start repo | 09:38 |
| @kanzure | what? | 09:39 |
| kirka | *start using git repositories | 09:40 |
| kirka | Ah, but if you want ti read recent changes, then I could upload it to git | 09:41 |
| * kirka Begins reading about git | 09:41 | |
| ybit | so... anyone want a web developer job? | 09:42 |
| ybit | ping me | 09:42 |
| ybit | heathmatlock@gmail.com | 09:42 |
| @kanzure | git clone git://diyhpl.us/nanoengineer.git; cd nanoengineer; copy your changes with "cp ~/wherever/nanoengineer/is/* ."; git add -u; git commit (type a commit message that explains the changes), then later i will teach you "git push" to make it public (you have to setup a git repo either on github or on .. | 09:42 |
| @kanzure | ybit: only if you guys are paying 20x what they were paying you. | 09:42 |
| ybit | ofc that isn't directed @you :) | 09:43 |
| @kanzure | so it's still $12/hour? | 09:43 |
| ybit | $14 | 09:43 |
| @kanzure | dude get out of that | 09:43 |
| @kanzure | fuck, i'll pay you $14/hour to dick around if you want. | 09:43 |
| nsh | ok | 09:44 |
| nsh | thanks | 09:44 |
| @kanzure | hahah | 09:44 |
| nsh | an irc contract is binding in the state of texas | 09:44 |
| kirka | 14$*8hours*6days_per_week*4weeks_per_month = 2688$/month | 09:44 |
| nsh | probably | 09:45 |
| kirka | Not too bad | 09:45 |
| @kanzure | $2688 is terrible for a web developer | 09:45 |
| nsh | that's about what i earned as a researcher in finland | 09:45 |
| @kanzure | kirka: web developers are earning closer to $8000-$12000/mo on this side of the planet | 09:45 |
| nsh | for postgrad machine-minding work | 09:45 |
| kirka | Hmm, in my country php and like web developers are lowest skilled workforce, and rarely earn more than 1000$ | 09:46 |
| ybit | i'm a junior guy | 09:46 |
| @kanzure | ybit: no you're not. | 09:46 |
| ybit | bham has a low cost of living | 09:46 |
| @kanzure | i know you ybit, you're not junior. | 09:46 |
| @kanzure | "low cost of living" is just another excuse they give you to not pay you. | 09:46 |
| @kanzure | kirka: that's because php programmers are awful. | 09:46 |
| @kanzure | php is also awful. | 09:46 |
| kirka | Yes it is | 09:46 |
| kirka | btw, I have 20Mbps broadband for just 18$/month. Is it cheap by USA standards? | 09:48 |
| @kanzure | kirka: are you near novgorod? | 09:48 |
| kirka | Nope, Saint-Petersburg | 09:49 |
| @kanzure | i'd like you to infiltrate the offices of these guys: http://opencascade.org/ | 09:49 |
| kirka | Finland is near | 09:49 |
| kirka | Heh | 09:49 |
| kirka | I heard abou that library | 09:49 |
| kirka | It implements b-rep for solid modeling and much more | 09:49 |
| @kanzure | correct | 09:50 |
| @kanzure | however, the source code is awful | 09:50 |
| @kanzure | written in english, french and russian | 09:50 |
| kirka | Solidworks geometric inference and b-rep are still surprising me. Impressive algorhitms. | 09:50 |
| kirka | Heh | 09:50 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@208.87.217.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 09:53 | |
| kirka | kanzure While I'm updating my freshly forked github repo, I'd like to ask, maybe you have thought on source of GL errors? | 09:57 |
| @kanzure | probably version incompatabilities | 09:58 |
| @kanzure | api probably changed in the last five years | 09:59 |
| kirka | Hmmh | 09:59 |
| kirka | 1.5Mb of GL code | 10:00 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-22-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:02 | |
| kirka | I think that's there is a problem with opengl context creation | 10:04 |
| kirka | But I don't know exactly ehre it's being created | 10:04 |
| kirka | *where | 10:04 |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:07 | |
| kirka | I had to comment these line to get it launching: | 10:08 |
| kirka | #glNewList(self._compass_dl, GL_COMPILE) | 10:08 |
| kirka | #_draw_compass_geometry() | 10:08 |
| kirka | #glEndList() | 10:08 |
| nsh | kanzure | 10:13 |
| nsh | you see this: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/18/2249200/feds-add-9-felony-charges-against-swartz-for-jstor-hack | 10:13 |
| nsh | may be worth doing some advocay. depending how strongly you feel about the issue | 10:13 |
| nsh | aaronsw is a good guy and it would suck balls if he went to jail for this | 10:13 |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@pool-108-39-145-80.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:14 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:19 | |
| @kanzure | nsh: yeah i was reading all the court docs the other day.. check the backlog | 10:26 |
| nsh | k | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | nsh: a few of our regulars (alec resnick, quinn norton) were subpoened | 10:27 |
| nsh | shit | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | he wont serve 35 years because people have gotten away with 10 for murder | 10:28 |
| @kanzure | i do wonder though what his defense is going to be | 10:33 |
| @kanzure | a few of the charges look defeatable in this case | 10:33 |
| jrayhawk | nl | 10:42 |
| jrayhawk | whoops | 10:42 |
| nmz787 | http://www.fastcompany.com/3001309/biohackers-and-diy-cyborgs-clone-silicon-valley-innovation | 10:44 |
| nmz787 | "In New York City, biohackers are united by the extremely active Biohackers NYC Meetup group and several startups, incubators, and workspaces scattered across the outer boroughs." | 10:44 |
| nmz787 | hah | 10:44 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: we are going to have to put you on a "no news" diet | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | i don't think its /extremely active/ | 10:45 |
| @kanzure | "biohackers-nyc".. didn't you just set that up like a day ago? | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | they also misspelled Pittsburgh | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | no, but I joined it a few months ago when i got to NYC | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | its a meetup.com thing | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | "When the Biohackers NYC group was founded in early 2012, “It was because most biohacker movements started on west coast, and the east coast was lagging behind. I lamented the lack of this on the east coast,” group founder and psychiatrist Lydia Fazzio tells Fast Company. " | 10:45 |
| @kanzure | wtf | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | I even emailed her about the DNA synthesis meeting and she didnt announce it to the meetup group | 10:46 |
| @kanzure | east coast is fine in nyc | 10:46 |
| @kanzure | i mean, genspace is pretty active. | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | they had some paleo food meetups, and then one about those grindhouse wetware stuff | 10:46 |
| @kanzure | grindhousewetware.com is Lukas_ when he comes in here | 10:47 |
| jrayhawk | oh yeah, i should've rebuild the chroot | 10:47 |
| nmz787 | "Meanwhile, in Pittsburg, Grindhouse Wetwares" | 10:47 |
| nmz787 | second misspelling | 10:47 |
| nmz787 | 3rd | 10:48 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 2a03707 add fastcompany.com article to list | 10:48 |
| nmz787 | "These implants have substantial real-life effects. Dimoveo described a few: | 10:48 |
| nmz787 | “In the lab one of our older laptops stopped working--sometimes it would recharge and other times it wouldn't. It took [Grindhouse experimenters] Tim Cannon and Shawn Sarver all of five seconds to figure out what was going on just by running their hands from the extension cord up the power brick to the computer itself. The wire was giving off a field, but not the battery (which sadly meant I needed to get a new computer). | 10:48 |
| @kanzure | "which meant i needed to get a new computer" ??? | 10:49 |
| Mariu | lool | 10:49 |
| nmz787 | "Biohackers first came into the public consciousness thanks to an August 2012 article on tech website The Verge, where author Ben Popper had one of Grindhouse's cybernetic magnetic implants surgically placed in his thumb. " | 10:50 |
| @kanzure | well that's a lie.. | 10:50 |
| nmz787 | damn, kanzure... better delete all the old DIYbio news | 10:50 |
| @kanzure | yeah i must be a fucking moron | 10:50 |
| nmz787 | moron | 10:50 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news/ | 10:50 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: e58cb52 add theverge.com article from 2012-08-08 | 10:52 |
| nmz787 | well, let's see if the mod posts my comment calling out the spelling and lie/major-mistake re news | 10:53 |
| @kanzure | fell free to link to my list :\ | 10:53 |
| @kanzure | and the biohack-nyc/genspace thing is super weird. | 10:54 |
| @kanzure | maybe journalists don't have long-term memory | 10:54 |
| @kanzure | like, maybe we can claim that you started diybio | 10:54 |
| nmz787 | i did | 10:55 |
| nmz787 | heh heh | 10:55 |
| nmz787 | (i did link to faq/news) | 10:55 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 10:57 | |
| nmz787 | this guys seems somewhat interesting http://www.frias.uni-freiburg.de/matter_research/fellows/osamu-tabata/view?set_language=en | 10:57 |
| eudoxia | so Lukas is Lucas Dimoveo? | 10:58 |
| @kanzure | yes | 10:58 |
| eudoxia | man I'm slow | 10:58 |
| @kanzure | poorly written fiction :/ http://synthbiopunk.blogspot.com/ | 10:59 |
| kirka | тья787 Штеукуыештпб ерфтлы | 11:00 |
| kirka | Oops | 11:00 |
| kirka | nfz787 Interesting, thanks | 11:00 |
| Mariu | »Ñ‹ | 11:01 |
| @kanzure | kirka: how do you switch between input modes? | 11:01 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-22-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 11:01 | |
| kirka | kanzure Ctrl+Shift | 11:01 |
| jrayhawk | kirka: It's possible 'apt-get install libgl1-mesa-glx libgl1-mesa-dri' from inside the chroot will enable direct rendering | 11:01 |
| kirka | I tried it, doesn't work | 11:02 |
| jrayhawk | okay | 11:02 |
| kirka | Maybe it's VM thing | 11:02 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: oh right.. he's running ubuntu in virtualbox on windows 7 | 11:02 |
| jrayhawk | well, if direct rendering exists outside the chroot, then it's only partially a VM thing | 11:02 |
| kirka | Video have never been virtualized properly | 11:02 |
| @kanzure | stop using virtualbox | 11:02 |
| jrayhawk | what does lspci -nn | grep VGA have to say? | 11:03 |
| kirka | Heh. It's free. I don't want to crack vmware | 11:03 |
| jrayhawk | you could also just get some cheap crappy hardware and shove an old radeon in it and probably get decent speeds | 11:04 |
| kirka | 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter [80ee:beef] | 11:04 |
| jrayhawk | huh | 11:04 |
| kirka | Yes | 11:04 |
| kirka | That's my github, I pushed changes there: https://github.com/elfion/nanoengineer | 11:05 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:06 | |
| kirka | It launches in ubuntu 12.04 | 11:06 |
| nmz787 | kirka: without chroot? | 11:06 |
| kirka | Yes. | 11:06 |
| kirka | But opengl is broken. | 11:07 |
| nmz787 | you changed all the numeric stuff to numpy? | 11:07 |
| nmz787 | or did you use my code to start with? | 11:07 |
| @kanzure | kirka: i am looking | 11:07 |
| kirka | No, I started with kanzure's version | 11:07 |
| @kanzure | oh i see. nmz787's branch (ubuntu-fixes) has numeric->numpy changes. | 11:07 |
| kirka | I noticed that you already did update Numeric too lat | 11:07 |
| kirka | *late | 11:07 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/elfion/nanoengineer/commit/15ede4b77d0b44206b3bd11f286b8ffc3b94dba6 | 11:07 |
| kirka | But auto-replacing imports wasn't difficult | 11:08 |
| nmz787 | did you use the numeric to numpy script? | 11:08 |
| kirka | No | 11:08 |
| nmz787 | http://www.scipy.org/Converting_from_Numeric | 11:08 |
| nmz787 | how did you do it then? | 11:08 |
| kirka | I used Geany and replaced all "from Numeric" to "from numpy.oldnumeric" | 11:09 |
| @kanzure | he probably did a recursive find-and-replace with sed | 11:09 |
| @kanzure | ok well apparently he doesn't know sed | 11:09 |
| kirka | And "import Numeric" -> "import numpy.oldnumeric" | 11:09 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 11:09 |
| kirka | Heh | 11:09 |
| nmz787 | I tried " site-packages/numpy/oldnumeric/alter_code1.py converts code written for Numeric to run with numpy using the compatibility layer." | 11:09 |
| kirka | I just don't like to learn legacy UNIX tools | 11:09 |
| nmz787 | do you have virtualbox extensions installed? | 11:10 |
| nmz787 | legacy? | 11:10 |
| kirka | Yes I do | 11:10 |
| kirka | Yes, emacs for example has its key bindings from old Dymbolics lisp machines and so on | 11:11 |
| nmz787 | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sed/+changelog | 11:11 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: well your prediction was correct about causing massive merging problems.. kirka's changes were based on a previous commit, and he tried to apply his changes on top of my latest version (with whitespace changed) | 11:11 |
| nmz787 | sed is still being updated | 11:11 |
| kirka | If I wrote an OS it would be simpler | 11:11 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i should listen to you more often. | 11:11 |
| nmz787 | so I dont think its legacy | 11:11 |
| @kanzure | kirka: there's a minor problem with your git repo, and it's sort of my fault, can we fix it? | 11:12 |
| kirka | Yes | 11:12 |
| @kanzure | kirka: you copied files into the repo and did "git add -u" right? | 11:12 |
| kirka | Yes | 11:12 |
| jrayhawk | ha ha ha | 11:12 |
| @kanzure | ok we are going to repeat that, except before copying the changes, do this... | 11:12 |
| kirka | Well, when I download it from github it works, that's enough for me | 11:13 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 11:13 | |
| kirka | I'm listening | 11:13 |
| @kanzure | hmm when did you download the .tar.gz/.zip from my github? the one that you changed. | 11:14 |
| @kanzure | oh.. or: what was the filename of the .tar.gz/.zip? it should have some numbers in it that i need. | 11:14 |
| kirka | Yes | 11:15 |
| kirka | kanzure-nanoengineer-2237b68 | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | oh good | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | ok | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | type this: "git checkout 2237b68" before copying your changes into it | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | then do "git add -u; git commit" and for the commit message you can use the same one "Updated numpy, LinearAlgebra, illegal array conditionals, commented compass drawing" | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | then do: git push -f origin master (you might have called it something different from "origin".. basically the same way you pushed to github, but with -f to force the updates) | 11:17 |
| kirka | So, I manipulate on your unpacked tarball or on my local clone? | 11:17 |
| @kanzure | oh i see, oops. what do you have? unpacked tarball kanzure-nanoengineer-2237b68, nanoengineer.git from me, and then your nanoengineer.git folder? | 11:18 |
| @kanzure | make sure you keep your changed files separate, don't lose them :) | 11:19 |
| kirka | I made git clone of your repo, copied there changes that I made and then made git add -u; git commit; git push https://github.com/elfion/nanoengineer | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | i see | 11:20 |
| kirka | Then I checked if version downloaded from github works | 11:20 |
| kirka | It does | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | ok go into that same folder you pushed to https://.. | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | type "git reset --hard 2237b68" instead of "git checkout" | 11:20 |
| kirka | Ok | 11:20 |
| kirka | I've done it | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | then copy in your changes again and do "git add -u". then type "git status". | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | check if "Makefile.am" is in this list that "git status" shows.. if it is, then we've done something wrong :) | 11:21 |
| kirka | Lookslike file manager replaces all files in local repo, isit ok/ | 11:21 |
| kirka | ? | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | did this happen the 1st time? | 11:22 |
| @kanzure | *first | 11:22 |
| kirka | Yep | 11:22 |
| @kanzure | yes it's ok | 11:22 |
| kirka | I've done it | 11:23 |
| kirka | Next? | 11:23 |
| @kanzure | type: git status | grep Makefile | 11:24 |
| @kanzure | oh sorry. "git add -u" first. then "git status | grep Makefile". | 11:24 |
| kirka | #modified: cad/src/Makefile.am | 11:25 |
| kirka | #modified: cad/src/experimental/demoapp_0.1/Makefile | 11:25 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: what did i do wrong?? | 11:25 |
| kirka | Heh | 11:26 |
| kirka | Git shamanism | 11:26 |
| jrayhawk | dissect the nearest SVN user and read their entrails | 11:26 |
| @kanzure | what does this say? git rev-parse HEAD | 11:26 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.163.94] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:27 | |
| kirka | So, the problem for you is that it shows files that haven't been changed as changed? | 11:28 |
| @kanzure | the problem is that your changes were based on an older version of nanoengineer | 11:28 |
| @kanzure | so we are trying to tell git to apply your changes to the older version | 11:28 |
| kirka | Hmmh | 11:28 |
| jrayhawk | eh, download http://rghost.net/40459375 and rebase it yourself, kanzure | 11:28 |
| @kanzure | is http://rghost.net/40459375 the same changes? | 11:28 |
| kirka | Yes | 11:29 |
| kirka | It works | 11:29 |
| @kanzure | ok i'll do it | 11:29 |
| kirka | Thanks | 11:29 |
| jrayhawk | it's mean to introduce someone to git with sucha trial by fire | 11:29 |
| jrayhawk | s/sucha/such a | 11:29 |
| kirka | Heh | 11:29 |
| kirka | btw There is a file "kirka_NE1_work_log.txt" which documents issues with new libraries and their solutions | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | are you familiar with issue trackers? | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | you can go here: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/issues | 11:31 |
| kirka | Ok | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | when you find a new problem, you type it in and document it a little bit, and then other people can contribute. | 11:31 |
| kirka | Will this problem show on all repos, forked from yours? | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: when i click on any of the nanoengineer git links that have been going around, then click branches, I dont see kirka, nmz787 and kanzure's repos | 11:32 |
| kirka | How do I upload fix to some issue/ | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | why not? | 11:32 |
| kirka | ? | 11:32 |
| @kanzure | kirka: upload is "git commit" and "git push" ;) | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | seems like you should be able to see all the forks and merges and branches | 11:32 |
| kirka | Ok | 11:32 |
| @kanzure | kirka: you can attach a commit to an issue by saying "fixes gh-500" in the commit message. "gh-500" tells github to link it to issue #500. | 11:33 |
| kirka | Understood | 11:33 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: don't click "branches", click "network". | 11:33 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: "branches" are only branches that i have pushed to kanzure/nanoengineer.git | 11:33 |
| nmz787 | network is not intuitive for me to click on :P | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | hah, it doesnt show you | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | https://github.com/elfion/nanoengineer/network | 11:34 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/network | 11:35 |
| @kanzure | wget --user-agent="nope" "http://rghost.net/download/40459375/8d5029be46526940e01853aaec6f9c34aae5877c/kirka-nanoengineer.tar.gz" is failing for me | 11:35 |
| @kanzure | it just downloads html | 11:35 |
| @kanzure | how do i get this file? | 11:35 |
| kirka | hmmh, I do it through browser | 11:35 |
| @kanzure | oh here it is: | 11:36 |
| @kanzure | http://rghost.net/download/40459375/14757996a32c0755b8567503adbb8a9fec17fb05/kirka-nanoengineer.tar.gz | 11:36 |
| kirka | If you cannot download, tell me where to upload it | 11:36 |
| kirka | http://tau.rghost.ru/download/40459375/a9c0af7264b6de3231714d578b36878987a17495/kirka-nanoengineer.tar.gz | 11:37 |
| kirka | That's it internal server URL | 11:37 |
| kirka | kanzure Does it work? | 11:39 |
| @kanzure | yes, i am fixing git things now. | 11:39 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: so apparently there's mode changes on the files. how do i fix this? | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | oh neat "git config core.filemode false" ok then. | 11:44 |
| @kanzure | "If false, the executable bit differences between the index and the working copy are ignored; useful on broken filesystems like FAT." | 11:44 |
| nmz787 | fenn: so some folks in #linuxcnc were saying to use a delrin nut for the acme screw | 11:44 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:44 | |
| nmz787 | fenn: and to be wary of VXB for bearings | 11:44 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: could you do me a favor and call him? i don't know if he's alive. | 11:44 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: 703-343-5730 | 11:45 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 11:45 | |
| nmz787 | he signed on last night | 11:45 |
| kirka | nmz787 Aren't you familiar with opengl? | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: left a message | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | kirka: not really, i mean, i know about glut and ogre and glxgears | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | but i havent used their APIs | 11:48 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: where did he sign on last night? | 11:48 |
| @kanzure | kirka: ok i have fixed the git problems, but before i commit i'd like to make the commit author to be you (instead of me). we are using the "Firstname Lastname <email>" format. how would you like to be attributed? | 11:50 |
| @kanzure | kirka: if you use the same email as you use on github, github will know how to link up commits to your account. | 11:51 |
| kirka | Kirill Gadjello kiragadjet@gmail.com then | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | ok cool | 11:51 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: maybe it was not last night | 11:52 |
| nmz787 | but in the last 2 or 3 nights | 11:52 |
| Vicarious | hi | 11:53 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-22-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:54 | |
| @kanzure | kirka: ok go into your git repo and do this: "git pull git://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer.git kirka-updates:kirka-updates; git checkout kirka-updates; git push -f https://github.com/elfion/nanoengineer.git kirka-updates:master" | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | actually, no. | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | just do this part: "git pull git://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer.git kirka-updates:kirka-updates; git checkout kirka-updates" | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | for now you can see the fixed version here: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/tree/kirka-updates | 11:59 |
| kirka | Ok, I was afk | 12:00 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i need some sage advice about whether or not to merge this branch into master. my gut says no because there's no tests to check what it breaks. | 12:01 |
| kirka | You are right | 12:01 |
| kirka | Let it be experimental or womething | 12:01 |
| kirka | *something | 12:01 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 8d289b5 add ne1log.txt to .gitignore | 12:03 |
| kirka | Oh. I did this git push -f https://github.com/elfion/nanoengineer.git kirka-updates:master sorry | 12:04 |
| @kanzure | well that's ok | 12:04 |
| @kanzure | elfion/nanoengineer on github will show your changes for the "master" branch instead of putting your changes on a separate branch | 12:04 |
| kirka | Ok | 12:05 |
| kirka | error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by checkout: | 12:05 |
| kirka | ? | 12:05 |
| kirka | If I try to checkout | 12:05 |
| @kanzure | are these new changes? | 12:05 |
| @kanzure | if they are not new changes, then type: git reset --hard to undo the git repo differences. | 12:06 |
| kirka | Filenames are that were affected by new changes | 12:06 |
| @kanzure | git is trying to warn you about things you will overwrite that you might want to keep | 12:07 |
| @kanzure | but we are already keeping them in kirka-updates | 12:07 |
| kirka | Then ok | 12:07 |
| @kanzure | so "git reset --hard" will tell git to discard the changes in your current branch that you haven't "saved" (committed) yet | 12:07 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: hey since i'm working on nanoengineer/git things anyway, do you want me to fix your commits from ubuntu-fixes? https://github.com/nmz787/nanoengineer/commits/ubuntu-fixes | 12:09 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-183-125.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:09 | |
| kirka | Hmmh, git reset --hard reverted it to old version, it doesn't run | 12:09 |
| @kanzure | yes | 12:10 |
| @kanzure | type: git checkout kirka-updates | 12:10 |
| kirka | Well, it's my repo, I'll read git doc and do something with it | 12:10 |
| kirka | Works | 12:10 |
| @kanzure | when you checkout "kirka-updates" you switch to the version with your changes | 12:10 |
| kirka | Good. | 12:10 |
| @kanzure | oh i bet filter-branch can accept a range instead of just HEAD. hrm. | 12:19 |
| kirka | So, everytime I commit to NE1 I shall write First name, Last name and email? | 12:25 |
| kirka | (or make them global for git) | 12:25 |
| @kanzure | yes there's a way to configure that.. git config --global user.name "Kirill Gadjello" | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | git config --global user.email "kiragadjet@gmail.com" | 12:26 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:26 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 12:27 | |
| @kanzure | open knowledge foundation is live streaming their talks: http://okfestival.org/streams/ | 12:27 |
| kirka | Ok, I'm reading this http://git-scm.com/book/ | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | (mostly about open access) | 12:28 |
| kirka | So, to code experimental features it's better to create separate branch | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: well it sounds like kirka may have surpassed what i did | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | so no, don't fix anything | 12:31 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 029c9da article about open source hardware in labs | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | so i'm giving a DNA talk to those biohacker NYC meetup.com ppl | 12:32 |
| nmz787 | and they want a short bio | 12:33 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: too late.. https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/commits/nmz787-ubuntu-fixes | 12:33 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: for a short bio.. i suggest talking about open spectrometer, maybe our laser cutter, the fbi outreach you do and how you got involved in diybio a few years ago (since apparently people can't remember) | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | heh | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | am i a science enthusiast? | 12:34 |
| Juul | I remember reading about this project to encode a bunch of important texts from human history onto stone spheres, where the first spheres explained how to read the next, much more information-dense, spheres | 12:35 |
| nmz787 | or do i supercede that | 12:35 |
| Juul | but now I can't find it | 12:35 |
| @kanzure | Juul: was it related to stewart brand? | 12:35 |
| Juul | I think it was at the Alexandrina library | 12:35 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: you exceed that label yes | 12:35 |
| Juul | kanzure, not that I remember, but I guess it could have been | 12:35 |
| Juul | it was several years ago | 12:35 |
| Juul | maybe 10 | 12:35 |
| nmz787 | hmm, this is why there are bio and autobio graphies | 12:37 |
| nmz787 | i dont know what to say | 12:37 |
| chris_99 | wasn't this Juul http://millenniata.com/m-disc/ ? | 12:38 |
| Juul | chris_99, no, but that's really cool | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: "Yo dawgs, I am into open source hardware and biohacking. I started the open spectrometer project on kickstarter, and have been working on a weird-ass laser cutter for a DIY DNA synthesizer for like 1/100th the cost. Also, I've been active in the biohacking community for 3 years, which is like forever in internet time." | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | lol | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | yeah that's pretty good | 12:39 |
| Juul | yeah, except you should consider making it a bit more formal and specific, maybe start with: "Greetings oldfags" instead | 12:42 |
| nmz787 | i think biohackery is a word | 12:43 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:43 | |
| @kanzure | Juul: it's sad that one day oldfags will only be known by oldfags. | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | although i think newfags will remain strong | 12:44 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 12:46 | |
| chris_99 | what kind of laser cutter are you making nmz787? | 12:50 |
| kirka | GLpane standard_repaint_0 and standard_repaint cause type errors | 12:50 |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 12:51 | |
| @kanzure | chris_99: http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher | 12:51 |
| chris_99 | merci | 12:52 |
| chris_99 | what kind of size is it gonna be? | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | iirc we planned for at least 3 to 5 inches on a side for a work piece | 12:54 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:56 | |
| chris_99 | i'm wondering how accurate those cheap chinese ones are | 12:56 |
| @kanzure | they're not. and they are certainly not micron resolution anyway. | 12:57 |
| chris_99 | aha | 12:57 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@118-93-183-125.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 12:58 | |
| kirka | Class diagram would be of great help | 12:58 |
| @kanzure | it would be better to separate the graphics code from everything else | 12:58 |
| @kanzure | the "import" lines at the top of all the files make the graph too wild and unpredictable | 12:59 |
| kirka | Yes, I understand | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | you can isolate those by wrapping them in try/catch statements | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | "try: import OpenGL..... import... import...; catch Exception as exception: pass" | 12:59 |
| kirka | Thanks | 13:01 |
| kirka | I mean if there is no class diagram we may create it | 13:02 |
| kirka | (Someone from BRL-CAD said that when NE1 logic is written down in specification it could be implemented in another language) | 13:02 |
| kirka | I'll try to do it | 13:03 |
| nmz787 | How's this, | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | "I started hacking at age 3 with a plastic screwdriver, dismantling my | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | toy-box to my parents' dismay, for a while they tried hiding tools | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | from me. After years of ripping apart old electronics and appliances, | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | and computer code, I discovered a passion in biohacking. My high | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | school biology class was just too interesting, and I began | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | experimenting at home the next year, mastering sterile technique in my | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | mom's kitchen. It really gave me an advantage in college, I didn't | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | have to worry about the simple stuff, I could really focus on the big | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | picture. Recently I've been working on open-source biotech hardware, | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | last year I started the openSpectrometer project on kickstarter, and | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | lately I've been working on a weird laser cutter for making a | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | microfluidic (small fluidic channels the size of blood capillaries) | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | DIY DNA synthesizer that will be 1/100th the cost of current devices. | 13:13 |
| nmz787 | How's this,"I started hacking at age 3 with a plastic screwdriver, dismantling my toy-box to my parents' dismay, for a while they tried hiding tools from me. After years of ripping apart old electronics and appliances, and computer code, I discovered a passion in biohacking. My high school biology class was just too interesting, and I began experimenting at home the next year, mastering sterile technique in my mom's kitchen | 13:13 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@203.118.181.245] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:15 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@203.118.181.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 13:17 | |
| brownies | nmz787: what's it for? | 13:18 |
| nmz787 | well i sent it | 13:18 |
| nmz787 | a bio for some meetup.com thing that i'm gonna talk at | 13:18 |
| nmz787 | https://filetea.me/default/ | 13:19 |
| nmz787 | Anonymous, volatile file sharing | 13:19 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | http://www.safelivingtechnologies.ca/Studies+Articles.htm | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | Scientific Electromagnetic Field “EMF” Studies | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | i wonder if I can find any telepathy stuff in there | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | i really want to make bacteria talk between glass test tubes | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | lol | 13:20 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@203.118.181.245] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:20 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@203.118.181.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 13:21 | |
| nmz787 | so fastcompany still hasnt posted my comment | 13:21 |
| nmz787 | guess they don't like being called liars | 13:22 |
| nmz787 | ok, g2g | 13:25 |
| nmz787 | ttyl | 13:25 |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@pool-108-39-145-80.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 13:25 | |
| * kirka wonders why should rendering be so complex, with caching, sahders and stuff | 13:30 | |
| kirka | *shaders | 13:30 |
| kirka | exception in _paintGL_drawing ignored: <type 'exceptions.TypeError'>: 'int' object is not iterable | 13:30 |
| kirka | [GLPane_rendering_methods.py:285] [GLPane_rendering_methods.py:333] [GLPane_rendering_methods.py:390] [GLPane_rendering_methods.py:441] [GLPane_rendering_methods.py:720] [GLPane_highlighting_methods.py:349] | 13:30 |
| * kirka would render atomic structures with sprites | 13:32 | |
| chris_99 | heh, but then it wouldn't look pretty | 13:36 |
| kirka | With blur it could | 13:36 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:36 | |
| kirka | Sprite is a natural way of rendering Spheres | 13:36 |
| chris_99 | i'd like to see you do fancy 3d manipulation of them | 13:37 |
| kirka | Yup, calculating which model objects should be created on mause click is complex | 13:37 |
| kirka | *mouse | 13:37 |
| kirka | But in NE1 it's done in some even more complex HW-accelerated fashion, as it seems to me | 13:38 |
| kirka | *should be selected | 13:38 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 13:40 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko- [~Nattzor@m77-219-178-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:40 | |
| kirka | No, extracting graphics code from NE1 is impossible task for me | 13:41 |
| kirka | Most I can do is to patch so it could (sometimes) work | 13:42 |
| eudoxia | we should just extract the code for the 3D viewport and build everything from scratch around it | 13:42 |
| eudoxia | that's what I originally wanted to do | 13:43 |
| eudoxia | but I got lost in cad/src and they had to send in a rescue team to find me | 13:43 |
| eudoxia | i was without food and water for 11 days | 13:44 |
| * kirka can relate to eudoxia feelings | 13:45 | |
| kirka | I commented source of exceptions and now it' segfaulting, heh. | 13:46 |
| @kanzure | i think the separation of imports is the way to go forward | 13:46 |
| kirka | Could you show an example? | 13:46 |
| @kanzure | open ipython and type "import nanoengineer". that should cause no errors and it should work. | 13:46 |
| kirka | Ny "try:" around imports do not catch anything | 13:46 |
| kirka | Hmmh | 13:46 |
| kirka | ImportError: No module named nanoengineer | 13:48 |
| @kanzure | well, you need to add the path to your $PYTHON_PATH | 13:49 |
| @kanzure | export PYTHON_PATH=$PYTHON_PATH:/path/to/nanoengineer/cad/src/ | 13:49 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 13:51 | |
| kirka | Still doesn't work. I also haven't seen declaration of such module | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | yes exactly, there's a bunch of problems | 13:51 |
| kirka | eudoxia So, I suspect, you are tired of NE1 internals? :) | 13:51 |
| eudoxia | there is no hope | 13:52 |
| @kanzure | there is always hope | 13:52 |
| @kanzure | just not for you guys, because you wait for me to do everything :( | 13:52 |
| kirka | Heh | 13:52 |
| kirka | I was going to do it myself | 13:52 |
| kirka | hit_records = list(glRenderMode(GL_RENDER)) | 13:53 |
| kirka | This generates exceptions | 13:53 |
| kirka | GLPane_highlighting_methods.py - highlight drawing and hit-detection, 349 | 13:53 |
| kirka | eudoxia My hope is to play around with NE1 and it's sources, understand it's features, then create architecture for such CAD and implement it in completley portable manner. | 13:55 |
| kirka | Decoupled IO, that means | 13:56 |
| eudoxia | decoupled? | 13:57 |
| kirka | Yep | 13:58 |
| eudoxia | like operating the program from the command line? | 13:58 |
| kirka | So it would work onany computer wehre you implement IO functions (mouse, keyboard, pixelbuffer) and write interpreter of source language | 13:58 |
| kirka | Actually Chuck Moore did that with Forth. | 13:59 |
| kirka | It's possible | 13:59 |
| eudoxia | why not compile it for almost every platform? | 14:00 |
| kirka | New platforms will appear | 14:00 |
| kirka | And interpreter is easier to write then compiler. | 14:00 |
| eudoxia | well | 14:01 |
| eudoxia | you need to write a compiler that emits asm for that platform to compile the interpreter | 14:01 |
| eudoxia | why not just use that first compiler to compile the program? | 14:01 |
| kirka | Someone will do that for me | 14:01 |
| @kanzure | .... | 14:01 |
| kirka | Languages and libraries are created and forgotten often | 14:01 |
| kirka | And standards change | 14:02 |
| eudoxia | just produce asm for a compiler infrastructure that compiles it to every other platform | 14:02 |
| eudoxia | ie LLVM IR | 14:02 |
| eudoxia | and writing a compiler is not that hard... | 14:02 |
| kirka | LLVM may become deprecated in 20 years | 14:02 |
| kirka | Yes it is | 14:02 |
| eudoxia | depends on the target lang | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | you guys could be fixing nanoengineer right now, you know. | 14:03 |
| kirka | I am | 14:03 |
| kirka | eudoxia Idea is that implementation language should be easy to interpret (e.g. scheme). Then even if all tools of this generation (~2000-2010) will be abandoned, that software could still be tun easiliy | 14:05 |
| kirka | *run | 14:05 |
| kirka | Just write interpreter and drivers | 14:05 |
| eudoxia | or you just write a scheme compiler | 14:06 |
| kirka | If that's bytecode compiler then yes | 14:06 |
| eudoxia | why would anyone compile to bytecode? | 14:06 |
| kirka | To be portable | 14:06 |
| kirka | Java does | 14:06 |
| kirka | It works anywhere you code JVM | 14:06 |
| eudoxia | compiling to the asm of the machine is not qualitatively different from compiling an interpreter to the asm of the machine and then running your program on the interpreter | 14:07 |
| kirka | Yes | 14:07 |
| kirka | You are right | 14:07 |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:07 | |
| kirka | I mean that even if there are no modern interpreters/compilers remained for the language a program is written in, if the language has clear and simple specification then someone can easiliy implement interpreter/compiler. | 14:11 |
| eudoxia | certainly | 14:11 |
| kirka | Programs written to be used decades into the future should be written that way | 14:12 |
| eudoxia | we really need to get working on all this historical baggage our software keeps carrying around | 14:13 |
| chris_99 | and what language would the spec be written in | 14:13 |
| eudoxia | the specification is not a language, it's simply a document | 14:14 |
| eudoxia | like a function reference | 14:14 |
| kirka | English, probably. Or formal logic. | 14:14 |
| kirka | Yes | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | i thought you meant something like Z | 14:14 |
| eudoxia | the notation? | 14:14 |
| kirka | >we really need to get working on all this historical baggage our software keeps carrying around | 14:14 |
| kirka | I agree | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | yeah the notation | 14:15 |
| * kirka wonders about meaning ***** adding _generalCopier exception for <type 'numpy.ndarray'> (bad if not a built-in type -- classes used in copied model attributes should inherit something like DataMixin or StateMixin) | 14:15 | |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/nanoengineer/cad/src/ReadMe.html | 14:17 |
| kirka | Thanks | 14:18 |
| kirka | btw kanzure Have tried to run main.py ? | 14:18 |
| kirka | Maybe GL errors are my hardware's fault | 14:18 |
| -!- EnLilaSko- [~Nattzor@m77-219-178-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] | 14:19 | |
| @kanzure | yes i have run main.py | 14:19 |
| @kanzure | but not your version. | 14:19 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@171.66.163.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:19 | |
| kirka | Could you try? | 14:19 |
| kirka | Internet says that my errors maybe because of ati gpu | 14:20 |
| kirka | Ша нщг фку игынб шеэы щл | 14:27 |
| kirka | If you are busy, it's ok | 14:27 |
| kirka | Do the glRenderMode(GL_SELECT) drawing, and/or the glname-color | 14:31 |
| kirka | drawing for shader primitives, used to guess which object | 14:31 |
| kirka | might be under the mouse, for one drawing frame, | 14:31 |
| kirka | if desired for this frame. Report results by storing candidate | 14:31 |
| kirka | mouseover objects in self.glselect_dict. | 14:31 |
| kirka | Hate it | 14:31 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:32 | |
| kirka | Hate this aproach | 14:33 |
| kirka | *approach | 14:33 |
| kirka | Yes, maybe it's faster | 14:33 |
| kirka | But it's too complex | 14:34 |
| kirka | And hardware dependent | 14:34 |
| kirka | kanzure ? | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | what? | 14:36 |
| @kanzure | oh you still want me to run your version.. no not right now. | 14:37 |
| kirka | Ok, I'm not in a hurry, we have days, weeks, months | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: "DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:10 xterm; X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. X connection to 127.0.0.1:10.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown)." | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | oh oops i forgot my .Xauthority | 14:43 |
| jrayhawk | xhost +local: makes things simple | 14:46 |
| kirka | Aren't you working with chroot? | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: where should i run that? | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | kirka: i am using the chroot on a remote vserver, so i need to do xforwarding to see anything | 14:47 |
| kirka | Ah | 14:47 |
| jrayhawk | oh, ssh -X should take care of all the magic cookie stuff for you | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | hmm | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: ssh -X bryan@gnusha.org "sudo chroot /root/nanoengineer-chroot \"xeyes\"" doesn't work (well, i'm not passing these strings through, i'm doing it manually, but you get the idea). | 14:48 |
| jrayhawk | oh, right | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | ah i forgot the xauth add $(cat /pasted/file) step | 14:49 |
| kirka | eudoxia Have you got some experience with NE1 during your 11-day journey? | 14:49 |
| eudoxia | not much | 14:50 |
| kirka | Don't you want to pass it on? :) | 14:50 |
| eudoxia | I mostly just saw the code and seized | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | kirka: i don't see why he would. you've ignored everything else so far. | 14:50 |
| kirka | Heh | 14:50 |
| kirka | I agree | 14:50 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: d7245df add link to wiki.biohackers.la | 14:52 |
| kirka | But I set up github! | 14:54 |
| kirka | That was a major "give up" for me :) | 14:55 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 243b855 another cheap power supply for gel electrophoresis | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | kirka: true. | 14:55 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:56 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:56 | |
| jrayhawk | using git builds character! | 14:57 |
| jrayhawk | github i am more apathetic about, i guess | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | github has some nifty help documentation and links that make it less painful for new users | 14:58 |
| jrayhawk | someday i will usurp those capitalist pigdogs with the Great Piny Experiment | 14:58 |
| kirka | I have read some of them | 14:59 |
| kirka | I think it's possible to build user-friendly CVS | 14:59 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: so i'm still confused about xforwarding, even without the chroot. ssh -X into gnusha and DISPLAY=:10 xlinks2 should run right? :/ | 14:59 |
| @kanzure | i get "svgalib: Cannot get I/O permissions." | 14:59 |
| @kanzure | and "(!) Direct/Util: opening '/dev/fb0' and '/dev/fb/0' failed" | 15:00 |
| -!- Tasmania [John@unaffiliated/tasmania] has quit [Excess Flood] | 15:00 | |
| jrayhawk | You need a socket to connect to, either in /tmp/ or over the network | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | I think ssh -X uses the /tmp approach, so you'd have to bindmount that into the chroot | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | i'm not using the chroot yet | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | just trying to confirm that xforwarding works | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | oh | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | i keep expecting "ssh -X bryan@gnusha.org \"xlinks2\"" to just work. but there's a few steps i need to remember? | 15:02 |
| -!- Guest27419 [John@be.afraid.we.are.armed.us] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:02 | |
| * kirka is sleepy | 15:02 | |
| -!- kirka [~Kirka@95.161.252.108] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 15:02 | |
| jrayhawk | uh. hmm. that works with no effort for me | 15:03 |
| @kanzure | oh derr. me too :( i was preemptively assuming i needed to specify a weird $DISPLAY. | 15:03 |
| -!- Guest27419 [John@be.afraid.we.are.armed.us] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 15:04 | |
| @kanzure | so mount --bind /tmp /root/nanoengineer-chroot/tmp ? | 15:04 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 15:04 |
| @kanzure | mount: permission denied | 15:04 |
| @kanzure | (sudo'd) | 15:05 |
| jrayhawk | oh, no, i guess i lied. ssh -X does do it over the network. | 15:05 |
| jrayhawk | so the bind mount is unnecessary | 15:05 |
| @kanzure | so when i jump into the chroot, i run xeyes and i get "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. X connection to localhost:10.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown)." | 15:06 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, you'll want to copy or bind mount .Xauthority in there | 15:07 |
| @kanzure | gnusha:~/.Xauthority into nanoengineer-chroot/root/.Xauthority ? | 15:08 |
| jrayhawk | Only if you want to run stuff as root, yeah | 15:08 |
| @kanzure | mount: mount point /root/nanoengineer-chroot/root/.Xauthority is not a directory | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | I wonder if the uid gets reported somehow. that'd be interesting. | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, you'd have to touch that first | 15:09 |
| @kanzure | same problem | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | huh | 15:09 |
| @kanzure | mount --bind is only for directories? | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | damn, i totally thought it could fake that | 15:10 |
| jrayhawk | oh well, you're doomed to copying | 15:10 |
| @kanzure | hooray why didn't copying work earlier | 15:11 |
| @kanzure | probably because i was using DISPLAY=gibberish because i wasn't thinking | 15:11 |
| jrayhawk | DISPLAY=127.0.0.1:10 looks to be what you want | 15:12 |
| @kanzure | i don't need $DISPLAY. xeyes and nanoengineer are displaying for me now that i copied my ~/.Xauthority around like a whore. | 15:13 |
| jrayhawk | oh, surprising | 15:13 |
| jrayhawk | in general if you want some level of security when dealing with remote X stuff, you can use xpra | 15:13 |
| @kanzure | yeah i think leaving my .Xauthority in a chroot is bad, isn't it? | 15:14 |
| jrayhawk | It'll only be valid for as long as your xsession is | 15:14 |
| @kanzure | contest! who can display goatse on my laptop the fastest? | 15:14 |
| jrayhawk | man, this sounds like a fun game | 15:14 |
| @kanzure | i think the winner can possibly watch my screen remotely? | 15:14 |
| jrayhawk | with a lot of effort | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | well seeing as how these assholes can't even fix basic python bugs, i guess that's unlikely. | 15:15 |
| jrayhawk | okay, did that work | 15:16 |
| @kanzure | yep | 15:16 |
| @kanzure | you win | 15:16 |
| jrayhawk | Feels good. | 15:16 |
| jrayhawk | Like I really accomplished something today. | 15:17 |
| @kanzure | was that you on the keyboard or was i talking to myself | 15:17 |
| jrayhawk | You were just talking to yourself. I'm not willing to go through the effort of dealing with xinput. | 15:17 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-22-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:23 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:40 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] | 15:45 | |
| jrayhawk | also the chroot thing doesn't really change anything; the raw socket is available to all local users, and the xauth layer is all that's protecting you. | 15:46 |
| jrayhawk | so any user that has access to your .Xauthority file (i.e. root and you) are always able to dick with your server. | 15:46 |
| jrayhawk | alternatively, if you xhost +127.0.0.1, everyone can join in on the party! | 15:46 |
| jrayhawk | In Glorious Wayland Future, windows don't really need to be aware of eachother, so security defaults for network abstractions will be a lot less awful. | 15:49 |
| jrayhawk | well, probably | 15:50 |
| skorket | evening all | 15:50 |
| jrayhawk | I am a little surprised ssh -X doesn't use a BSD socket like ssh -A does. | 15:51 |
| nsh | what's the difference? | 15:59 |
| nsh | reentrancy | 15:59 |
| nsh | aside from that just appears to be difference in function naming conventions | 16:00 |
| jrayhawk | The BSD socket would have filesystem permissions applied to it. | 16:03 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:07 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:19 | |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i'm still experiencing a segfault with mitmproxy :/ | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | #0 0x00007ffff7219431 in RC4 () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.1.0.0 | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | ideally i coudl force it to load a version of libcrypto with debugging symbols i guess. | 16:24 |
| jrayhawk | libssl1.0.0-dbgjrayhawk@richardiv:~$ apt-cache search libssl dbg | 16:25 |
| jrayhawk | libssl1.0.0-dbg - Symbol tables for libssl and libcrypto | 16:25 |
| jrayhawk | whoops | 16:25 |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:26 | |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: hooray upgrading libssl fixed things apparently | 16:29 |
| @kanzure | or possibly upgrading python to 2.7.3something | 16:29 |
| jrayhawk | upgrades are love | 16:29 |
| @kanzure | upgrades for everyone | 16:30 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 16:30 | |
| @kanzure | 66.68.190.37:42102: 400: SSL handshake error: [('SSL routines', 'SSL3_READ_BYTES', 'tlsv1 alert unknown ca')] | 16:30 |
| @kanzure | hrm. | 16:30 |
| @kanzure | "Purchase for multiple years - installing the code on the server for the SSL is a $75 charge" | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | my mom is getting ripped off. | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | "You can purchase the SSL from Godaddy this week and we will need the access to that account" | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | "purchase the SSL" her language is awful (this isn't my mom, but rather the person she's paying..) | 16:51 |
| brownies | kanzure: wtf? | 16:52 |
| brownies | from godaddy? need access to the account? for $75? every part of that is so, so wrong. | 16:52 |
| streety | yeah, $75 probably isn't bad for a streamlined service but it sounds like your mom still needs to do half the work | 16:55 |
| jrayhawk | hey remember last night when i got you an ssl certificate for free with fifteen minutes of work | 16:57 |
| jrayhawk | those were good times | 16:57 |
| @kanzure | huh? | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | i'm trying to figure out how much this is worth to me | 16:58 |
| streety | how much what is worth to you? | 16:59 |
| @kanzure | should i be a nice person and tell mom and her person about startcom? or is my time more valuable than spending an hour trying to save her $100ish | 16:59 |
| @kanzure | oh wait, what are the requirements to run credit card processing on a merchant account on websites these days? | 17:01 |
| @kanzure | do they put a minimum like only 2048-bit ssl certs? | 17:01 |
| streety | I've no idea, is this 'get the SSL' person handling that? If so I suspect not | 17:02 |
| @kanzure | well i was going to have mom get rid of the "SSL person" in this context and just tell her to use https://cert.startcom.org/ certs | 17:03 |
| streety | godaddy.com only offers 256-bit certs, same as startcom | 17:03 |
| @kanzure | ah didn't know | 17:04 |
| streety | startcom don't install though, do they? | 17:04 |
| @kanzure | what, adding a SSLCertificateFile directive to somewhere? | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | that's not a good reason to use godaddy | 17:05 |
| brownies | kanzure: tell your mom to use Stripe | 17:05 |
| brownies | i mean, wtfbbq. | 17:05 |
| chris_99 | 256 bit just refers to the AES bit length right? | 17:05 |
| brownies | any agency who recommends GoDaddy for anything should immediately be fired. | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | brownies: she's selling sex chairs, which seems to be against their TOS | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | brownies: yeah no kidding | 17:05 |
| brownies | kanzure: oh. really? what if she just calls them "really really comfortable chairs" | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | brownies: i told her these people are idiots, but then she asked me to do it for $2000 and i declined. | 17:05 |
| brownies | "activity chairs" | 17:05 |
| brownies | kanzure: she's paying $2000 to set up SSL? shit, i'll do that... | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | she's paying $2000 to setup some shitty wordpress site with a merchant account | 17:06 |
| brownies | kanzure: why is she using fucking wordpress instead of an existing eCommerce SaaS? | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | because realistically she's not going to pay me to do this right for her | 17:07 |
| @kanzure | and she doesn't listen to me anyway. it took me two years to get her on dropbox. | 17:07 |
| brownies | so she's offered you $2000 but she's not going to pay? | 17:08 |
| brownies | i agree, that sounds like a bad deal, then. | 17:08 |
| @kanzure | $2000 isn't enough to get me to use wordpress | 17:09 |
| @kanzure | i don't want to be responsible for that | 17:09 |
| nsh | hahaha | 17:10 |
| nsh | (sorry if srs) | 17:10 |
| @kanzure | i am serious. wordpress jobs are the worst. the pay is low, the customers are idiots and poor. | 17:10 |
| streety | I seriously doubt godaddy install the cert either, but if you don't know what you're doing I can see how you might be happy to be charged for the installation | 17:10 |
| streety | and it's your fault when they're hacked | 17:10 |
| brownies | yeah, i agree | 17:11 |
| brownies | kanzure: i skimmed over the Shopify ToS, as well as my friend's eCommerce platform, but they both have generic phrasing against "obscene" storefronts | 17:11 |
| brownies | "obscene" and "pornographic" which a sufficiently dickish admin could interpret at will, basically. | 17:11 |
| @kanzure | well, sure. | 17:11 |
| @kanzure | stripe is also unacceptable because of the 7-day turnaround in her case | 17:12 |
| jrayhawk | The PCI standards don't care about the validation scheme. | 17:13 |
| @kanzure | nmz787's gf did pci audit work for a while and had some hilarious stories. | 17:13 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:14 | |
| jrayhawk | Eh, PCI's a joke either way. It's essentially impossible to be fully compliant, and being fully compliant is not particularly protective. | 17:14 |
| jrayhawk | it's just a big responsibility dodge | 17:14 |
| @kanzure | so uh, i'm replying to mom's email, and i need some way to inform her people about how they should feel bad about using godaddy | 17:15 |
| brownies | kanzure: dude, 7 days is really generous. | 17:15 |
| @kanzure | eh? | 17:15 |
| brownies | many places will hold your funds for 30 days | 17:15 |
| @kanzure | merchant accounts? | 17:16 |
| jrayhawk | "Hi. I have a certificate for https://secure.diyhpl.us/ that took fifteen minutes to set up and cost no money. Perhaps you should look into StartCom?" | 17:16 |
| brownies | and other places will give them to you, but make you sign something saying they can drain money from your bank account at will | 17:16 |
| brownies | kanzure: yes, re: your comment about Stripe and 7 days. | 17:16 |
| brownies | "only idiots use GoDaddy." | 17:17 |
| streety | alternatively pitch it as startcom gives you that ever so cool green trusted name for less than godaddy charge | 17:17 |
| streety | for the standard | 17:17 |
| @kanzure | nah the cert thing in this case is for the cc processing | 17:17 |
| jrayhawk | Actually I don't think you can get the fancy green one unless you pay $120. | 17:17 |
| @kanzure | man why isn't there a general "why paypal is awful" and "why godaddy is awful and you shouldn't base your business around it" explanation site? | 17:18 |
| streety | oh sorry, I think you are right | 17:18 |
| jrayhawk | oh, no wait, even the $120 version doesn't get you the green. | 17:18 |
| @kanzure | hah forbes has "7 reasons you should use godaddy", and then a link in the serp for "5 reasons you shouldn't use godaddy" | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | forbes sucks these days. | 17:20 |
| jrayhawk | all periodicals suck | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | yeah except forbes is good at getting into search results, even if you hate them | 17:21 |
| brownies | economist.com is holding on to their prestige, mostly | 17:23 |
| brownies | although even they recently did a fluff piece solely dedicated to a single app | 17:23 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:24 | |
| @kanzure | will they do a fluff piece about /my/ app? | 17:24 |
| -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:24 | |
| jrayhawk | claim that your galaga knockoff is a social revolution | 17:24 |
| brownies | kanzure: btw http://generalassemb.ly/education/learn-web-development-sf/ | 17:25 |
| brownies | heh. i'm sure it must've been an impressive publicist who got that Economist hit | 17:25 |
| -!- tashoutang [~tata@pc131090206.ntunhs.edu.tw] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:26 | |
| @kanzure | "back end instructor to be announced" heh | 17:26 |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:33 | |
| nsh | don't trust godaddy for SSL pls | 17:36 |
| @kanzure | no kidding | 17:40 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 17:42 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:45 | |
| brownies | kanzure: well, i found the price and structure more interesting | 17:47 |
| brownies | kanzure: $5000 for about 8 hours of class per week for N weeks | 17:47 |
| @kanzure | so does this mean there's now a market for high-priced one-on-one tutoring? | 17:48 |
| @kanzure | s/this/these | 17:48 |
| streety | how big is N? | 17:50 |
| delinquentme | THERE WAS THIS ONE TIME... that I was working on a project... in which a guy decided to roll his own library .. with the same name as another library .. which happens to do the same thing | 18:11 |
| delinquentme | and he thought it was a good habit. | 18:12 |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-72-83-254-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:13 | |
| Burninate | http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3068/does-castration-longer-life | 18:13 |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:21 | |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.67] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:22 | |
| brownies | kanzure: it's a 20:1 class | 18:26 |
| brownies | kanzure: there's also that one guy who charges $1000/hr for iphone tutoring | 18:27 |
| brownies | kanzure: so if you want that, you first need to make a hipster todo app! | 18:27 |
| @kanzure | oh tutoring? i thought that was just his "make you some code" rate | 18:29 |
| @kanzure | it's funny how much people pay for 20:1 | 18:30 |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:32 | |
| Mariu | Burninate, ask Cecil what he thinks about indefinite life spans | 18:40 |
| Mariu | =] | 18:40 |
| @kanzure | so, what's all this bogus stuff about "is this line secured?" | 18:47 |
| @kanzure | oh i see, it's just a lazy way of saying "let's use encryption", not "do you know if anyone has a tap". | 18:48 |
| @kanzure | hrm. "Fishbowl is a mobile phone architecture developed by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) to provide a secure Voice over IP (VoIP) capability using commercial grade products that can be approved to communicate classified information." | 18:49 |
| @kanzure | hah "Only NSA approved applications from the NSA enterprise app store can be installed." | 18:49 |
| @kanzure | http://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/Mobility_Capability_Pkg_(Version_1.1U).pdf | 18:49 |
| @kanzure | "rogue base-station risk". neat.. | 18:50 |
| brownies | kanzure: oh? i'd like a secure communication medium | 18:51 |
| brownies | now that Skype has completely failed in every part of its mission, and all | 18:51 |
| -!- CryptoQuick [~Alex@c-174-51-232-237.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:51 | |
| CryptoQuick | sup, kanzure | 18:51 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:52 | |
| @kanzure | brownies: i bet disposable tor phones would be popular :p | 18:52 |
| @kanzure | CryptoQuick: hello | 18:52 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Client Quit] | 18:52 | |
| CryptoQuick | kanzure: what do you think of amorphous silicon thin film PV grown from CVD? | 18:53 |
| CryptoQuick | (in a DIY sense, of course) | 18:53 |
| @kanzure | CVD isn't super-diy-friendly. | 18:53 |
| CryptoQuick | :T | 18:54 |
| @kanzure | hah "The "red phone" was using encryption. Actually, it was using the most secure encryption ever: a one-time pad. The random pad (XORed with the data to send) was exchanged on magnetic tapes every week, by special diplomatic planes." | 18:54 |
| CryptoQuick | kanzure: if you wanted to make solar panels, what process would you use? | 18:57 |
| @kanzure | cheap human labor? | 18:57 |
| @kanzure | i haven't looked into it. | 18:57 |
| brownies | interesting | 18:57 |
| brownies | kanzure: problem with cell phones of any sort is that you immediately invite triangulation based on cell tower signal | 18:58 |
| @kanzure | unless you have multiple phones | 18:58 |
| skorket | ok, height mapping is done. Discrepancy between successive runs is under 2 mils. Program to interpret gcode and interpolate based on the height map is done. I think it's time to do a test run | 19:00 |
| brownies | kanzure: how does that change anything? o.O | 19:02 |
| @kanzure | brownies: they would only be able to triangulate multiple targets that look the same (except for location) | 19:03 |
| -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:03 | |
| brownies | kanzure: oh, i suppose. | 19:03 |
| @kanzure | you might also be able to spoof a signal power level | 19:03 |
| brownies | CryptoQuick: iirc they use thin-film lithography to make solar cells? | 19:03 |
| @kanzure | there's a bunch of methods | 19:04 |
| jrayhawk | xmpp does text/audio/video and uses secure transports on everything by default | 19:04 |
| docl | Anyone know anything about this company? http://www.biostasislabs.com/ | 19:06 |
| JayDugger | Good evening, eveyone. | 19:11 |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] | 19:17 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@72.187.64.192] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:17 | |
| skorket | evening JayDugger | 19:18 |
| -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:19 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@72.187.64.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 19:22 | |
| skorket | “If [Tangibot's funding] is successful, MakerBot will have to revise their Open Source policy and become closed source. " | 19:24 |
| skorket | http://blog.makezine.com/2012/09/19/is-one-of-our-open-source-heroes-going-closed-source/ | 19:24 |
| skorket | wtf? | 19:24 |
| -!- panax [~panax@72.187.64.192] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:25 | |
| skorket | It amazes me. "If a company uses our open source/open hardware, we're going close source" | 19:25 |
| @kanzure | people are eager to forget how makerbot's style of open source is "open source, except for this core element or impossible-to-source part" | 19:26 |
| skorket | by people, you mean makerbot | 19:27 |
| @kanzure | no i mean people. people think makerbot is some sort of great example of open source. | 19:27 |
| @kanzure | it's not that great of an example. | 19:27 |
| skorket | it's a successful company that releases it code under some type of GPL. Why not a great example? | 19:28 |
| @kanzure | that's just source code. makerbot is primarily about hardware. | 19:29 |
| skorket | ok, but they also release their stuff under whatever equivalent license there is for open hardware | 19:30 |
| @kanzure | nah, there's a few pieces that are an exception | 19:30 |
| skorket | for the makerbot? | 19:30 |
| @kanzure | i haven't built one (why would i? reprap is cheaper and more open anyway), but that's what i hear, yes. | 19:31 |
| skorket | ah, interesting | 19:31 |
| @kanzure | the peeps in #reprap will have an exact part name to give you if you ask about makerbot open source exceptions | 19:31 |
| -!- marainein [~net@2001:388:608c:6cb5:9dd1:6f7e:8164:643d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 19:32 | |
| skorket | ha! | 19:32 |
| Burninate | `Skorket: What are you heightmapping? | 19:36 |
| @kanzure | wtf so prusa claims that makerbot firmware is closed source. | 19:37 |
| skorket | aren't they using an arduino or something? | 19:37 |
| @kanzure | well you know, #reprap is probably fucking biased | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | try #makerbot | 19:38 |
| skorket | Burninate, PCBs | 19:39 |
| brownies | kanzure: dammit | 19:43 |
| brownies | kanzure: there are loud idiots in the conference room saying dumb things about SEO | 19:43 |
| @kanzure | hahah | 19:43 |
| brownies | kanzure: and it's slowly driving me mad | 19:43 |
| brownies | and they all have terrible accents | 19:43 |
| @kanzure | why does SEO inspire the greatest idiocy? | 19:44 |
| brownies | "just put these magic things on your web site, and millions of visitors will flow in!" | 19:45 |
| @kanzure | seo lucky rabbit foot | 19:45 |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] | 19:49 | |
| brownies | that would be a good name for an SEO firm | 19:52 |
| @kanzure | "Bad HTTP request line: 'GET / HTTP/1.1\r\n" | 20:16 |
| @kanzure | "Godaddy is reliable and you can get a hold of real people anytime with good technical support for domains and SSL - we have worked with them for years." | 20:30 |
| -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-134-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:30 | |
| @kanzure | i'm not sure how to help mom in this case | 20:30 |
| @kanzure | it's like a fountain of anti-truth | 20:30 |
| @kanzure | "Well, we will take a look at start com - however we and many clients we have had some pretty bad experiences (some nightmares actually) getting domains and SSLs from companies that were small and not very reputable." | 20:31 |
| @kanzure | "They have had to give up on domains because they couldn't get a hold of anyone for help and the SSLs were not reputable. My experience in a lot of these cases is you get what you pay for." | 20:31 |
| @kanzure | "SSLs" how cute. | 20:31 |
| -!- Mokbortolan_1 [~Nate@c-76-115-136-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 20:38 | |
| jrayhawk | did she outsource to an eastern bloc country | 20:39 |
| nsh | kanzure | 20:45 |
| nsh | source of that quote? | 20:45 |
| nsh | because if it's godaddy talking about how good they are with ssl | 20:46 |
| nsh | i may explode in a puff of hilarity | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | nsh: it's the person my mom hired to build her website :( | 20:52 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: actually.. it's this woman in austin who outsources to some russians. | 20:52 |
| nsh | well | 20:52 |
| nsh | at least if he does it on godaddy, i have a convenient way of accessing the backups when it needs to be moved to a real host. | 20:53 |
| jrayhawk | i guess cognitive problems are an asset for web development | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | a lot of web developers work for poor people. it's really crazy. | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | morethanyourplumber.com | 20:56 |
| nsh | funfact: i once found a private key for a root certificate signing authority on a secureserver host | 20:56 |
| nsh | so the fact that they can even talk about ssl security with a straight face is a joke | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | do you have a copy? | 20:57 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: proxydroid seems to use something called 'redsocks' to manipulate iptables. | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/madeye/proxydroid | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/darkk/redsocks | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | it looks like this is just a wrapper around iptables, but i'm not completely sure why. | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/madeye/proxydroid/blob/master/assets/proxy.sh#L13 | 21:00 |
| nsh | kanzure, no it seemed above my paygrade and i told someone who's job it was to worry about things like that | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | you had someone you would trust with a private key to a CA? | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | CSA | 21:01 |
| nsh | it was publically accessible via http because of a malicious symlink and bad apache directives | 21:02 |
| nsh | i didn't want anything else to do with it | 21:03 |
| jrayhawk | haha awesome | 21:03 |
| nsh | if you ever want to see where not to host your website google something like inurl:txt/var/mail or inurl:sym/var/mail | 21:04 |
| nsh | common extension/name used for the link | 21:04 |
| nsh | lots of hosters with massive customer bases on shared hosting allow you to browse the entire filesystem through apache | 21:04 |
| nsh | i don't know how these people make money | 21:04 |
| @kanzure | i'm still surprised shared hosting is a thing | 21:05 |
| brownies | they charge $5 per yaer for shared hosting | 21:05 |
| brownies | so it iwll always be a thing | 21:05 |
| brownies | nsh: jesus relaly? | 21:05 |
| nsh | brownies, yup | 21:05 |
| @kanzure | that's international espionage shit right there | 21:06 |
| @kanzure | shouldn't you disclose their idiocy or something? | 21:06 |
| nsh | there are people who get paid for that | 21:07 |
| nsh | if you tell people they've done something stupid, they'll just find another way to do it | 21:07 |
| @kanzure | and most companies wont understand. | 21:07 |
| nsh | to fix security culture is beyond my means | 21:07 |
| nsh | case in point: http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/kolya/afs/root.afs/ | 21:11 |
| brownies | one of the organizations i was consulting for was doing a web site redesign... | 21:11 |
| nsh | that's the andrew filesystem for the athena cluster at MIT | 21:11 |
| nsh | someone symlinked it from their user directory | 21:11 |
| brownies | they asked me to manage the bidding process, and they ended up seriously considering bids in the $10K range for a Wordpress site | 21:11 |
| nsh | which makes sense | 21:11 |
| nsh | lol | 21:11 |
| -!- klafka1 [~textual@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:12 | |
| nsh | by that mathematics, i have friends who own $200,000,000 worth of websites | 21:13 |
| @kanzure | brownies: what was the project? i mean, some people do have multi-million-dollar wordpress setups (like the wordpress hosts).. | 21:13 |
| brownies | kanzure: no, it was some static pages and a blog. | 21:13 |
| brownies | oh, and the design was already done, so this was purely for the "coding" | 21:13 |
| @kanzure | well, if you go too low you'll end up with idiots like my mom's doing | 21:13 |
| brownies | i ended up rejecting all the bids and doing it myself in an afternoon... in retrospect i should've put in a $5K bid. | 21:13 |
| brownies | but i was young and naive in those days =P | 21:14 |
| brownies | younger and more naive, anyway. | 21:14 |
| nsh | :) | 21:14 |
| nsh | you can't hold on to your youth, but goddamnit, you can stay naive | 21:14 |
| brownies | haha | 21:15 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: do you have any advice for iptables wizardry to redirect everything through mitmproxy? | 21:16 |
| jrayhawk | I thought mitmproxy already had instructions on that front? | 21:16 |
| @kanzure | their android instructions are "use proxydroid" | 21:18 |
| @kanzure | proxydroid uses redsocks which is compiled only for armeabi | 21:19 |
| @kanzure | i could recompile redsocks for android x86 but then i'd have to recompile proxydroid too. | 21:19 |
| jrayhawk | eh, i am too tired to research this | 21:21 |
| @kanzure | ok. just wanted to know if there was something excruciatingly obvious. | 21:21 |
| nsh | kanzure, dont these things respect http_proxy variable? | 21:26 |
| nsh | can wrap with proxychains | 21:27 |
| @kanzure | no they don't respect http_proxy | 21:28 |
| @kanzure | i want something that would work regardless of how awful application programmers were. | 21:29 |
| nsh | something like: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i <inface> -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-port <mitm-port> | 21:32 |
| nsh | (maybe, iptables is a dark art) | 21:35 |
| @kanzure | nsh: the one thing i've noticed from that is that john carmack likes to make lots of typos in his READMEs | 21:37 |
| @kanzure | http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/kolya/afs/root.afs/sipb/contrib/idgames/src/doom-1.10/README | 21:37 |
| nsh | lol | 21:38 |
| nsh | there's a lot of things there from the 90s | 21:39 |
| -!- bkero [~Ben@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:39 | |
| nsh | and vaxen | 21:40 |
| -!- klafka1 [~textual@c-67-174-253-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] | 21:41 | |
| @kanzure | they seem to run a multics instance? | 21:41 |
| * nsh nods | 21:43 | |
| nsh | not sure if it's virtual | 21:43 |
| nsh | probably not | 21:43 |
| @kanzure | "The last known running Multics installation was shut down on October 30, 2000, at the Canadian Department of National Defence in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada" | 21:45 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-228-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:48 | |
| eudoxia | christ how does a defense organization keep using multics until 2000 | 21:49 |
| @kanzure | oh neat i didn't know there was a public dump of its source code | 21:50 |
| @kanzure | http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/ldd_listings/bos/restor.list | 21:50 |
| nsh | cool | 21:56 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-228-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 22:00 | |
| @kanzure | "A MakerGear Prusa did 10 micron layers a whole ago and I know an Ultimaker driver who's poked around at ~0.75 micons, though that wasn't really "layers" - it was more of a single-step spiral print." | 22:07 |
| -!- bkero [~Ben@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:07 | |
| -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:08 | |
| -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:08 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:09 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:26 | |
| -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:28 | |
| -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:28 | |
| -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has quit [Client Quit] | 22:28 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:35 | |
| -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-134-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 22:58 | |
| -!- audy [~audy@unaffiliated/audy] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] | 23:27 | |
| -!- audy [~audy@heyaudy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:27 | |
| @kanzure | "Apollon Oikonomopoulos" | 23:44 |
| @kanzure | quite a name. | 23:44 |
| --- Log closed Thu Sep 20 00:00:31 2012 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!