| --- Log opened Sun Nov 11 00:00:08 2012 | ||
| -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-242-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:34 | |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 00:38 | |
| -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:41 | |
| -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:41 | |
| -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 00:42 | |
| -!- nmz7871 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:42 | |
| -!- AlonzoTG [~atg@dsl092-168-049.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:43 | |
| -!- mgodinho [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/mgodinho] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:55 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 02:15 | |
| -!- mgodinho [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/mgodinho] has left ##hplusroadmap ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] | 02:26 | |
| -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:43 | |
| -!- uf6667 [~uf@host81-151-78-220.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:51 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:12 | |
| -!- rafael [~dnm@pdpc/supporter/active/calango] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:51 | |
| -!- thesnark [~snark@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:15 | |
| thesnark | hey kanzure | 04:15 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:48 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 04:57 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.44.26] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:14 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.44.26] has quit [Changing host] | 05:14 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:14 | |
| -!- thesnark [~snark@unaffiliated/thesnark] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 05:19 | |
| -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:43 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:02 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 06:02 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:02 | |
| -!- irctc927 [48da7d6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.218.125.108] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:07 | |
| -!- uf6667 [~uf@host81-151-78-220.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] | 07:09 | |
| irctc927 | hihi | 07:10 |
| -!- irctc927 is now known as loanshark | 07:10 | |
| -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:12 | |
| loanshark | hey, anyone know the effects of using nootropics with anti-depressants? | 07:13 |
| loanshark | namelybipropion | 07:13 |
| -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@94-194-89-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:35 | |
| -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@94-194-89-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] | 07:35 | |
| -!- loanshark [48da7d6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.218.125.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 07:51 | |
| -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-242-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:07 | |
| -!- irctc154 [48da7d6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.218.125.108] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:40 | |
| irctc154 | hello? | 09:49 |
| irctc154 | anyone alive? | 09:49 |
| -!- irctc154 is now known as loanshark | 09:49 | |
| docl | yeah | 09:51 |
| docl | I'm not a nootropics expert though | 09:52 |
| foucist | loanshark: well depending on the nootropic stack you go with, you might be getting extra choline, so i guess you could check to see if bipropion plays nice .. find out what it does in the brain, what mechanism is it operating on, and do any of the nootropics disagree with that mechanism? | 10:04 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 10:15 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:32 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:40 | |
| fenn | loanshark: bupropion affects norepinephrine/dopamine reuptake so in effect it's similar to amphetamines which are widely used in combination without too many reports of side effects | 11:01 |
| fenn | i would be more worried about combining nootropics with heart medicine as they often act via blood flow | 11:02 |
| fenn | it is sort of an overly broad category though, better to investigate specific combinations | 11:06 |
| -!- loanshark [48da7d6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.218.125.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 11:09 | |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:30 | |
| docl | http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/hyperfine/nbt0200168.pdf | 11:54 |
| docl | Trehalose expression can be triggered in human cells with an engineered adenovirus | 11:55 |
| docl | I wonder why nobody has proposed this for cryonics? | 11:55 |
| docl | Ben Best has written about trehalose on his vitrification page. http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/vitrify.html#sugars | 11:56 |
| fenn | trehalose is generally useful for counteracting aging as well | 11:57 |
| docl | The adenovirus trick uses two genes from e. coli to get cells to produce their own trehalose (I think from glucose) | 11:57 |
| fenn | there aren't any existing gene therapies for cryonics preparation are there? | 11:58 |
| docl | glucose can enter cells relatively quickly because all cells have transport proteins to facilitate it | 11:58 |
| docl | not that I'm aware of :( | 11:58 |
| fenn | it's a big legal problem just to get any gene therapy approved for any purpose at all, even neglecting the fact that by medical standards the treatment isn't doing any good | 11:59 |
| fenn | if the patient is going to be dead anyway | 12:00 |
| docl | yeah | 12:00 |
| docl | but this could impact organ transplant stuff too. | 12:01 |
| fenn | certainly | 12:01 |
| AdrianG | there are some gene therapies already approved | 12:01 |
| AdrianG | are they any morex epensive than drugs? | 12:01 |
| fenn | er, you tell me | 12:01 |
| AdrianG | i think cheaper approval than drugs, due to small trials? | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | they are niche products | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | the problem with gene therapies, they'll end up like vaccines | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | amazing for 99.999% | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | and vaccine court or gene therapy court for the unlucky ones | 12:03 |
| fenn | see this is why i don't believe in money | 12:07 |
| fenn | you can strap yourself to this rocket booster. the fuel costs twenty bucks but you might wipe out a small town so you have to pay ten million in insurance | 12:08 |
| fenn | there's nothing wrong with the rocket though | 12:08 |
| AdrianG | you mean you dont believe in liability | 12:09 |
| AdrianG | not money | 12:09 |
| fenn | if liability significantly affects the price of *everything* then what's the difference | 12:09 |
| fenn | consider the defense department budget a liability | 12:10 |
| fenn | er, insurance i mean | 12:10 |
| AdrianG | so i guess you are ok with me accidentally blowing up your house | 12:10 |
| fenn | you wouldn't be able to blow up my house if it werent for stupid building codes | 12:10 |
| fenn | anyway, shit happens all the time, just look at the latest hurricane | 12:11 |
| AdrianG | so would you be ok with it | 12:11 |
| fenn | hurricane insurance doesn't keep you from losing everything | 12:11 |
| AdrianG | and just swallow sadness | 12:11 |
| AdrianG | or sue me? | 12:11 |
| fenn | there's a bit of a difference with gene therapy | 12:12 |
| AdrianG | notrly | 12:12 |
| fenn | you need the treatment, and you can decide whether to take it or not | 12:12 |
| fenn | it's not like mad scientists are running around injecting people with viruses | 12:12 |
| AdrianG | ok | 12:12 |
| AdrianG | translation for cognitively challenged | 12:13 |
| AdrianG | scenario: I am paving your driveway. | 12:13 |
| Mariu | lol | 12:13 |
| AdrianG | my equipment blows up, i die, your house is gone | 12:13 |
| AdrianG | you lose left leg, right arm, permanent vision loss | 12:13 |
| AdrianG | do you just go, ooh ok kewl | 12:13 |
| AdrianG | shit happens! | 12:13 |
| fenn | well, you're dead, not going to get anything from you | 12:14 |
| AdrianG | you can sue dead ppl. | 12:14 |
| AdrianG | they still have an estate. | 12:14 |
| fenn | really? i didn't know that | 12:14 |
| AdrianG | "i die" is to take out the emotional part | 12:14 |
| AdrianG | liek, he doesnt need all that money! he's dead! | 12:14 |
| fenn | true | 12:15 |
| fenn | but think of all the driveways that have been paved with your fusion driveway paver | 12:15 |
| fenn | is it worth the cost to society to ban them for the sake of one idiot? | 12:15 |
| AdrianG | your opinion will change suddenly once you end up in a scenario like that | 12:16 |
| AdrianG | i knew some highly paid contractor who was like "fuck this nanny state" until he lost both legs in a motorcycle accident | 12:16 |
| fenn | undoubtedly, selfishness is a fitness enhancing cognitive bias | 12:16 |
| AdrianG | then he suddenly grew a different opinion overnight | 12:17 |
| AdrianG | well, not overnight, he was in coma for liek a couple of days | 12:17 |
| AdrianG | and the concept of liability is a deeply entrenched concept in common law | 12:17 |
| fenn | and the decided motorcycles should be made illegal? | 12:17 |
| AdrianG | its not changing any time soon. | 12:17 |
| AdrianG | fenn, no, decided the nanny state is gud, and should pay all his expensive medical bills | 12:18 |
| AdrianG | and pension etc | 12:18 |
| fenn | oh i see | 12:18 |
| fenn | my point is the reason medical bills are expensive in the first place is all the liability insurance | 12:18 |
| AdrianG | nope | 12:19 |
| AdrianG | 1) medical technology is expensive | 12:19 |
| AdrianG | 2) new drugs are expensive | 12:19 |
| fenn | bah | 12:19 |
| fenn | bullshit | 12:19 |
| AdrianG | 3) doctors have a very good cartel] | 12:19 |
| AdrianG | these are the 3 top factors | 12:19 |
| AdrianG | probably with doctors cartel being #1 | 12:20 |
| fenn | new drugs are barely more effective than old drugs most of the time | 12:20 |
| AdrianG | yes but they are expensive due to patent laws | 12:20 |
| AdrianG | not liability | 12:20 |
| AdrianG | also, depends on the drug | 12:20 |
| AdrianG | but yes, overall drugs arent that amazing | 12:20 |
| fenn | no, it actually costs something to market a drug, otherwise we'd have tons of pharma startups | 12:20 |
| fenn | er, s/market/bring to market/ | 12:20 |
| fenn | 60 to 800 million depending on your source | 12:21 |
| fenn | though they like to claim 4 billion | 12:21 |
| AdrianG | regulatory costs are negligible to large corps | 12:21 |
| AdrianG | its an artificial barrier to prevent smaller corps from entering the market | 12:21 |
| fenn | i agree it's artificial | 12:21 |
| AdrianG | its not like any regulation prevented class action lawsuits against drugmakers | 12:22 |
| ParahSailin | bring to market meaning paying off the fda | 12:23 |
| fenn | but nobody ever calculates the costs of not having any drug at all | 12:24 |
| AdrianG | its not a cost. | 12:24 |
| fenn | is dying a cost? fuck yeah it is | 12:24 |
| ParahSailin | we should be happy that the guy who chops off your leg is willing to sell us a prosthetic | 12:25 |
| AdrianG | not having drugs is an externality | 12:25 |
| fenn | if it means not dying of gangrene | 12:25 |
| fenn | anyway i'm in favor of gene therapy. it remains to be seen whether the liability cost will be higher than conventional drugs | 12:27 |
| -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:35 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:36 | |
| -!- Urchin[Emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:41 | |
| -!- Urchin[Emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: testing something] | 12:46 | |
| -!- Urchin[Emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:47 | |
| -!- foucist [~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 12:56 | |
| -!- foucist [~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:57 | |
| -!- nmz7871 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 13:13 | |
| -!- rafael [~dnm@pdpc/supporter/active/calango] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 13:25 | |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:28 | |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 13:36 | |
| -!- Urchin[Emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: sleeep] | 13:56 | |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:14 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:16 | |
| -!- bazl [~baz@cpe-68-203-10-243.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] | 14:23 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] | 14:35 | |
| -!- Mokstar [~Nate@c-76-115-140-241.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 14:56 | |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 15:02 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:35 | |
| -!- irctc409 [48da7d6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.218.125.108] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:25 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:37 | |
| -!- alusion_ is now known as alusion | 16:53 | |
| -!- alusion [~alusion@pool-173-79-17-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] | 16:53 | |
| -!- alusion [~alusion@unaffiliated/alusion] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:53 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@node-17-39.flex.volo.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:38 | |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:46 | |
| -!- wizrobe [~aserid@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:47 | |
| Maluseth | OMG | 19:02 |
| Maluseth | my grandma approved of 200K | 19:02 |
| Maluseth | OMG O | 19:02 |
| Maluseth | OMG | 19:02 |
| Maluseth | Can someone please tell me what equipment i need to buy in order to build a micromanufacturing lab? | 19:03 |
| yashgaroth | micromanufacturing of what | 19:03 |
| Maluseth | To MEMS, not to Fab | 19:03 |
| Maluseth | micro-electro-mechanical-systems | 19:03 |
| Maluseth | i've been researching | 19:04 |
| Maluseth | and there appears to be equipment just like the fab lab | 19:04 |
| Maluseth | but higher in it's definition | 19:04 |
| Maluseth | and more expensive in some cases | 19:04 |
| Maluseth | but which areas do i need? | 19:04 |
| ParahSailin | 200k? | 19:04 |
| ThomasEgi | guess the equipment is not all too different from regular semiconductor stuff | 19:04 |
| Maluseth | Yes Parah! | 19:04 |
| ParahSailin | 200k is what? | 19:05 |
| Maluseth | thats why i didnt take on your job! | 19:05 |
| Maluseth | $200,000 dollars! | 19:05 |
| ThomasEgi | that's a lot. | 19:05 |
| ParahSailin | you didnt tell me you were rich | 19:05 |
| Maluseth | i know! | 19:05 |
| Maluseth | i'm not rich! | 19:05 |
| Maluseth | my grandma is! | 19:05 |
| ThomasEgi | and now you have 59 people asking you for funding their projects | 19:05 |
| ParahSailin | same diff | 19:05 |
| Maluseth | wow she really loves me YES | 19:05 |
| yashgaroth | hello good sir, I have a business proposal that | 19:06 |
| Maluseth | i want to learn MEMS and post my progress hereeee | 19:06 |
| ThomasEgi | yashgaroth, ... nope.. i don't have a business proposal.. i just want some money :D | 19:06 |
| ParahSailin | well i hope im at the top of your consideration list for business plans | 19:06 |
| yashgaroth | hey man you don't get money without a fake business proposal | 19:06 |
| ThomasEgi | my fake business proposal is being honest? | 19:06 |
| yashgaroth | I'd go with nigerian prince | 19:07 |
| Maluseth | so nobody knows about MEMS? | 19:07 |
| Maluseth | micromanufacturing? | 19:07 |
| ThomasEgi | ok i could tell you what i'd use it for. but i totaly don't need 200k for buying a piece of desert, one piece of forest and then setting up geek-village there. | 19:07 |
| yashgaroth | not one of the 3 people in here right now, but someone does maluseth | 19:07 |
| ThomasEgi | Maluseth, i have a friend who does. | 19:07 |
| ThomasEgi | but.. that guy's asleep atm | 19:08 |
| Maluseth | oh | 19:08 |
| ThomasEgi | i only have very rough knowledge about it. | 19:08 |
| fenn | Maluseth: we have a MEMS project in progress but i personally lost interest a while ago | 19:08 |
| fenn | Maluseth: talk to kanzure and nmz787 about it when you see them | 19:08 |
| Maluseth | the process of micromanufacturing seems almost same as a fab lab- in their equipment uses | 19:08 |
| Maluseth | there's 3d printers, cnc mills and stuff for this work | 19:08 |
| Maluseth | fenn: got it | 19:09 |
| fenn | also azonenberg has been doing some home chip fab | 19:09 |
| Maluseth | OMG i can't believe this | 19:09 |
| ThomasEgi | from what i recall.. you etch those structures into silicone. | 19:09 |
| Maluseth | she's also buying me a house (80,000) in Ontario | 19:09 |
| ThomasEgi | so.. it'd be the usual masking, exposure etc. | 19:09 |
| yashgaroth | hey is your grandma single | 19:10 |
| Maluseth | ...sigh she's dying... | 19:10 |
| fenn | of what | 19:10 |
| fenn | maybe you should work on fixing that eh | 19:10 |
| Maluseth | she already had stroke twice... she says her time is coming | 19:10 |
| fenn | get her some piracetam and hydergine and some magnesium supplements | 19:11 |
| Maluseth | i have no idea where to start doing that although im doing my best | 19:11 |
| Maluseth | shes taking everything doctor ordering... but she has anger issues | 19:11 |
| Maluseth | and... | 19:11 |
| ThomasEgi | Maluseth, anyway. if you have some money left after buying that lab and house and everything, drop me or fenn a note. we still need some funding for setting up a self-sustained village | 19:11 |
| Maluseth | anyway... | 19:11 |
| fenn | yes definitely lots of projects in the pipeline | 19:12 |
| fenn | i'm not accustomed to having a budget, that's all | 19:12 |
| Maluseth | i dont have much anywhere to go, so i'll definetly update my progress | 19:12 |
| ThomasEgi | Maluseth, be glad. when my grandpa died all he did was telling me "don't get the wrong friends" ... and i was 25 when he said that. | 19:12 |
| Maluseth | yeah... yea im grateful. | 19:13 |
| Maluseth | i just gave her a presentation on building a fab lab, and my prospects of wanting to learn different fields of science through it- | 19:14 |
| Maluseth | and she was like completely mesmerized by the process | 19:14 |
| Maluseth | i didn't think she'd understand but i showed her youtube videos in the presentation cut out in 5-8 seconds | 19:14 |
| Maluseth | so to move onto the next topic | 19:14 |
| Maluseth | wow | 19:14 |
| Maluseth | anyways, fab lab i can do it on a budget- | 19:15 |
| Maluseth | but im really interested in getting these MEMS equipments | 19:15 |
| fenn | just dont blow it all on a brand new FIB | 19:15 |
| Maluseth | whats a FIB? | 19:15 |
| fenn | $200k aint much in the scheme of things | 19:15 |
| fenn | sort of like a nano laser cutter | 19:15 |
| Maluseth | oh | 19:16 |
| yashgaroth | focused ion beam | 19:16 |
| fenn | it's a powerful electron microscope that can blow holes in things | 19:16 |
| Maluseth | i really am interested in the laser additive manufacturing process now | 19:16 |
| Maluseth | but- | 19:16 |
| Maluseth | they could take so much money | 19:16 |
| Maluseth | even though it eliminates the need for most stuff | 19:16 |
| ThomasEgi | the words "powerfull" "blow holes into things" and "microscope" sorta don't really make a good combination^ | 19:16 |
| fenn | i'm biased towards the feynman approach.. when you can build something from scratch you understand it | 19:16 |
| ThomasEgi | if i read"powerful and blow holes into things.. i am thinking of something bigger.. | 19:17 |
| Maluseth | yeah im trying to learn, i shouldn't focus on power through owning | 19:17 |
| fenn | ThomasEgi: hey it's like 100W of power in a square nanometer, that's power! | 19:17 |
| ThomasEgi | that's indeed extremly high power-density | 19:17 |
| ThomasEgi | but the resulting holes are too small for my taste :D | 19:17 |
| Maluseth | oh man what to do | 19:18 |
| Maluseth | my heart's beating | 19:18 |
| ThomasEgi | http://www.gagbay.com/images/2012/09/keep_calm_and_gangnam_style-139299.jpg | 19:19 |
| ThomasEgi | that's what you should do. | 19:19 |
| Maluseth | i made some equipment listing if anyone wants to check it out | 19:19 |
| fenn | go run around the block | 19:19 |
| Maluseth | so far it's what i plan on buying | 19:19 |
| ThomasEgi | don't. buy .. anything | 19:19 |
| ThomasEgi | wait until your mind chilled down to normal operation levels. | 19:19 |
| ThomasEgi | then think about what to do. and then triple check that. | 19:20 |
| fenn | yeah you really need to learn a basic semblance of how things work first | 19:20 |
| Maluseth | im not gonna spend a penny until i have a clear motive | 19:20 |
| Maluseth | and plan of income maybe or at least prospects of penetrating into a market | 19:20 |
| fenn | i suggest perusing wikipedia categories | 19:20 |
| Maluseth | i got some serious reading to do | 19:20 |
| ThomasEgi | i suggest you take those 200k.. and buy me a candy bar. | 19:21 |
| Maluseth | but grandma told me to give her a listing of items im planning on buying and why - | 19:21 |
| fenn | a hafnium candy bar | 19:21 |
| Maluseth | you'll blow up thomas | 19:21 |
| ThomasEgi | from one candy bar? | 19:21 |
| ThomasEgi | no way. | 19:21 |
| Maluseth | of sugar | 19:21 |
| ThomasEgi | why? | 19:22 |
| Maluseth | i saw willy wonka | 19:22 |
| ThomasEgi | you see.. i mean.. i wanted to buy 1 (in words one) candy | 19:22 |
| Maluseth | ...:P | 19:22 |
| ThomasEgi | if you are too excited to count on 1. you should probably just do nothing.. or maybe order a pizza or so | 19:23 |
| ThomasEgi | and put that pizza on the list of things you bought. | 19:23 |
| Maluseth | im gonna download magazines about micromanufacturing and try and piece out equipment listing | 19:23 |
| ThomasEgi | reason "cause i was hungry" | 19:23 |
| Maluseth | ...i am going to burger kings... | 19:24 |
| Maluseth | right now. too much excitement | 19:24 |
| Maluseth | i need a thick milk shake to clog my heart | 19:24 |
| Maluseth | and slow it down | 19:24 |
| Maluseth | bbl | 19:24 |
| ThomasEgi | .... the best thing to do.. when suddenly getting hands on a lot of money... wolud be to not announce it on the internet. but hey, what do i know. | 19:25 |
| yashgaroth | I've traced his address to 23 canada street, ontario | 19:27 |
| fenn | 23 eh, it must be some kind of cosmological conspiracy | 19:32 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@node-17-39.flex.volo.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:33 | |
| -!- irctc409 [48da7d6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.218.125.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 19:35 | |
| -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:49 | |
| -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:49 | |
| -!- docl [~docl@unaffiliated/docl] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 19:56 | |
| -!- docl [~docl@98.158.26.222] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:57 | |
| -!- docl [~docl@98.158.26.222] has quit [Changing host] | 19:57 | |
| -!- docl [~docl@unaffiliated/docl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:57 | |
| AdrianG | whos address | 20:00 |
| thoughtcrime | piss cakes | 20:01 |
| ParahSailin | Maluseth, i used to do mems stuff | 20:01 |
| ParahSailin | worked in a university lab as an undergrad | 20:01 |
| Maluseth | parah | 20:08 |
| Maluseth | could you please give me some suggestions on | 20:08 |
| Maluseth | what equipment to purchase to have a functional MEMS lab? | 20:08 |
| Maluseth | with fabrication equipment meant for MEMS | 20:09 |
| Maluseth | i see 3d printers have high definition - that can print out MEMS materials | 20:09 |
| Maluseth | I see that there's waterjets and laser cutters that "cuts" micro stuff | 20:09 |
| Maluseth | what else is there? | 20:10 |
| fenn | spin coating, photolithography (masked and digital), fib, sputtering, bulk ion etching, doping oven, depends what you want to do really | 20:12 |
| fenn | try reading jeri ellsworth's blog | 20:12 |
| fenn | oh maybe its all just videos now | 20:13 |
| ParahSailin | mems is crazy expensive | 20:15 |
| fenn | chemicals cost a fair amount as well, dont forget to budget for disposal | 20:16 |
| fenn | honestly i think it's a bit much to chew for a first project | 20:17 |
| Maluseth | i think you are approaching a different side of mems? im looking for i think milling, laser cutting | 20:17 |
| Maluseth | EDMing | 20:17 |
| fenn | thats not MEMS | 20:17 |
| Maluseth | micromanufacturing | 20:17 |
| Maluseth | oh i see now i see the difference | 20:17 |
| fenn | edm minimum feature size is what, 0.05 inch? | 20:18 |
| Maluseth | 0.005 mm? | 20:18 |
| fenn | i'm seeing 20 micron ish | 20:19 |
| fenn | feature size and accuracy are different things, mind | 20:19 |
| Maluseth | i guess it's what i'm after. mems process seem very complex/ but these tools i cn afford. micromanufacturing | 20:19 |
| -!- ParahSailin_ [~parah@adsl-69-151-150-200.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:19 | |
| -!- ParahSailin [~parah@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:19 | |
| fenn | EDM is pretty cool, but slow and not a lot of good practical info out there | 20:20 |
| fenn | it's one of those "black arts" primarily due to secrecy that for whatever reason didn't happen in other manufacturing fields | 20:20 |
| fenn | ben fleming wrote a pretty good book | 20:20 |
| Maluseth | i need to buy tools that can cover all spectrum/angles of shaping a design, in it's automation... | 20:21 |
| Maluseth | oh | 20:21 |
| fenn | no such thing i'm afraid | 20:21 |
| fenn | praps you should fund nanotech development :P | 20:22 |
| Maluseth | im reading on these magazines from a website | 20:22 |
| Maluseth | and lotsa tools | 20:22 |
| Maluseth | i just cant find the price | 20:22 |
| fenn | yeah better get used to it | 20:23 |
| Maluseth | all have quote i have to ask for | 20:23 |
| fenn | anything industrial, getting a price is like pulling teeth | 20:23 |
| Maluseth | sigh | 20:23 |
| fenn | at least alibaba started keeping track of price quotes for some things | 20:23 |
| Maluseth | they wont even reply unless im a corporation | 20:23 |
| fenn | so make yourself a corporation | 20:23 |
| fenn | not a bad idea anyway | 20:24 |
| Maluseth | yeah maybe | 20:24 |
| Maluseth | i thought i should learn something first | 20:24 |
| fenn | i agree | 20:24 |
| fenn | forming a corp is pretty easy, i think you can even do it online now | 20:24 |
| fenn | then a letter shows up and you sign it and send it back | 20:25 |
| Maluseth | yeah | 20:25 |
| Maluseth | i saw these tools for precision workshops (making parts for watches) | 20:26 |
| Maluseth | all is manual and not computer automated by CAD | 20:26 |
| Maluseth | and cost 3000 or so per machine | 20:26 |
| fenn | sort of like photolithography right? | 20:26 |
| Maluseth | all tabletop size | 20:27 |
| Maluseth | no, i'll show you sec | 20:27 |
| ParahSailin_ | not really anything cash flow positive that you could do in a small mems lab | 20:27 |
| fenn | prints a mask on a sheet of brass and etches it? | 20:27 |
| fenn | ParahSailin_: the corporation is a formality that makes it useful to get anything done | 20:27 |
| Maluseth | http://www.cowells.com/ | 20:27 |
| Maluseth | im looking for something like this but by computer contolled --- so i can work w/ cad | 20:28 |
| fenn | hum okay | 20:28 |
| ParahSailin_ | not saying that, im just advising caution in blowing his grandma's inheritance | 20:28 |
| Maluseth | no this is an allowance - she got much much more | 20:29 |
| ThomasEgi | Maluseth, get a 3 or 4 axis nanometer table? | 20:29 |
| fenn | try joining #emc and see if anyone has recommendations for very small cnc machines | 20:29 |
| ThomasEgi | if you ask why.. might be useful, but mainly just for fun | 20:29 |
| Maluseth | egi i dont know what that is i will look into it thank you | 20:29 |
| Maluseth | fenn: ok | 20:29 |
| ThomasEgi | Maluseth, like x-y tables driven by piezo elements. | 20:30 |
| ThomasEgi | not cheap. but very precise.. oh and. mechanical manufacturing has limits. | 20:30 |
| fenn | actually you can cnc lap things to sub-nanometer precision, whatever that means | 20:31 |
| ThomasEgi | at some point stuff like the cristals on your grinding tools or the edges of your knives are simply too unprecise for building any more precise parts. | 20:31 |
| ThomasEgi | yeah but.. not with a lathe and mill | 20:31 |
| fenn | well, diamond turning lathe maybe | 20:31 |
| fenn | but that's millions of dollars | 20:31 |
| * fenn goes back to the packing of stuffs | 20:33 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:33 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Disconnected by services] | 20:34 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi_ is now known as ThomasEgi | 20:34 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 20:34 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:34 | |
| ThomasEgi | sry router reconnected. did i miss anything? | 20:34 |
| ThomasEgi | after my last post | 20:34 |
| Maluseth | no | 20:34 |
| Maluseth | not really | 20:34 |
| Maluseth | bbl | 20:35 |
| ThomasEgi | if you look for money payback. you definetly want to read about litography. it simply scales well and you can produce many parts in one step | 20:35 |
| ParahSailin_ | go straight to opencmos then | 20:36 |
| Maluseth | so many arrays | 20:36 |
| ThomasEgi | indeed. i'd love to see someone here manufacture custom cmos stuff. | 20:37 |
| Maluseth | i will list down everything everyone says and will carefully read about it | 20:37 |
| Maluseth | i hope i;ll eventually make a right decision | 20:37 |
| ThomasEgi | mems and cmos. on one chip. | 20:37 |
| ThomasEgi | that be pretty awesome. | 20:37 |
| ThomasEgi | i mean.. building a multi-elecrtode array for a whole nerve-bundle. | 20:37 |
| ThomasEgi | and put all the circuits on the same piece of silicone on the other side. | 20:38 |
| ThomasEgi | and only have a high speed serial interface. totaly for it. | 20:38 |
| ThomasEgi | probably not something you'll be able to produce just like that. | 20:38 |
| fenn | lots of electronics hobbyists would pay for an open source FPGA, even a crappy one | 20:40 |
| fenn | you'd need to outsource manufacturing eventually | 20:41 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 21:23 | |
| -!- mgodinho [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/mgodinho] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:45 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-117-179.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 21:59 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:47 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 23:19 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:21 | |
| kanzure | AAAAAHHHHHH | 23:23 |
| -!- mgodinho [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/mgodinho] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] | 23:26 | |
| nmz787 | kanzure! | 23:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: it would be cool if you were around when i return | 23:29 |
| kanzure | ~. | 23:39 |
| kanzure | . | 23:39 |
| -!- nmz787 [~Nathan@static-50-43-43-17.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 23:39 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:47 | |
| -!- mgodinho [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/mgodinho] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:49 | |
| --- Log closed Mon Nov 12 00:00:09 2012 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
