| --- Log opened Tue Dec 18 00:00:01 2012 | ||
| @kanzure | wtf why would stackexchange bother to compare itself to digg http://askubuntu.com/about | 00:15 |
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| @kanzure | does anyone have a pdb2stl script? | 00:38 |
| @kanzure | i think vmd had an stl mode | 00:39 |
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| @kanzure | seinfeld's show sure is different these days http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/ | 00:59 |
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| archels | oh man, 30 slides for a 45 minute presentation. This isn't going to work, is it? | 03:47 |
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| juri_ | kanzure: i'm actually doin some minor work on android-SDK for debian now. | 03:57 |
| juri_ | currently taking the last qemu + goldfish patches, and forcing them to compile. | 04:00 |
| juri_ | also playing with the official SDK, trying to get it running on a non-sun java. | 04:01 |
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| juri_ | I've been looking at android-x86 as a possible next-target, but i've heard of problems with networking, and really want to run the android browser, so i can test websites with it. | 04:08 |
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| curtiss | mornin | 05:47 |
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| @kanzure | juri_: you will have to patch android-x86 to get eth0 | 06:06 |
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| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/android/android-x86-4.0-eth0-generic_x86-20120516.iso | 06:08 |
| @kanzure | archels: 15min q/a problem solved, you can thank me later | 06:08 |
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| juri_ | i'll thank you now, if that image works. ;D | 06:17 |
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| @kanzure | juri_: i run that on qemu-system-x8 | 07:03 |
| @kanzure | erm.. qemu-system-x86 | 07:04 |
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| @kanzure | perl versions 1 through 4: http://www.etla.org/retroperl/ | 07:37 |
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| archels | kanzure: made it :D | 09:05 |
| @kanzure | you made slides? okay.. | 09:11 |
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| archels | within the allotted timeframe | 09:27 |
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| @kanzure | oh right.. the kernel for the default android emulator image, naturally, doesn't have the netfilter module | 10:28 |
| chris_99 | does android use a vanilla kernel? | 10:30 |
| jrayhawk | No. | 10:30 |
| @kanzure | it uses a kernel compiled out of pure evil | 10:31 |
| jrayhawk | https://lwn.net/Articles/514901/ | 10:32 |
| chris_99 | interesting ta | 10:33 |
| @kanzure | "With the Linux 3.3 release, it became possible to boot Android on a vanilla kernel" | 10:33 |
| @kanzure | oh reallly | 10:33 |
| jrayhawk | "boot" doesn't necessarily mean "run useful applications on" | 10:34 |
| @kanzure | "You can actually (almost) run native Android apps on glibc using hybris" | 10:35 |
| @kanzure | http://github.com/stskeeps/libhybris | 10:35 |
| jrayhawk | once again the maemo community kicks everyone else's asses | 10:35 |
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| @kanzure | wtf? cyanogenmod also doesn't have iptable support. | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | *iptables | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: yo can you check if your copy of cm has netfilter compiled into it? i'd like to hear if this is just an emulator build issue or if the cyanogenmod guys just hate iptables. | 12:23 |
| jrayhawk | Does Android compile everything in, or use modules? | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | not sure | 12:27 |
| jrayhawk | lsmod should say | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | modprobe reports that /system/lib/modules doesn't exist and lsmod says /proc/modules doesn't exist | 12:27 |
| jrayhawk | okay, that answers that | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | because fuck modules, right? | 12:28 |
| jrayhawk | for embedded systems you know exactly what hardware to target, but I assume cyanogen doesn't, really. | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | cyanogen has custom builds for each target phone -_- | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | it's actually a little disgusting | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | http://www.cyanogenmod.org/devices | 12:29 |
| jrayhawk | eh, some hardware is pretty restricted, and if you have to maintain a multibuild system anyway, doesn't hurt to optimize for every phone. | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | but at least they host these: | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Latest_Version/Google_Apps | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | yes except they don't have a generic | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | or an emulator-specific build. | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | gah i meant http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Latest_Version/Google_Apps | 12:30 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: i actually hosed cyanogenmod for some other ROM that was based on the sprint/HTC builds | 16:17 |
| @kanzure | okay | 16:17 |
| nmz787 | just a few days ago actually | 16:18 |
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| nmz787 | i have another phone with cm7 on it i think | 16:18 |
| nmz787 | how would i check? | 16:18 |
| @kanzure | lsmod | grep net | 16:18 |
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| abetusk | evening | 17:08 |
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| @kanzure | "The retired general described an experiment in which a mouse ran a maze with a computer chip wired into its brain. After the researchers transferred that chip to another mouse that had never seen the course, the second mouse could run the maze." | 18:45 |
| @kanzure | eh? was this just motor control? | 18:45 |
| superkuh | I get the feeling that the General might not have understood what he was being shown. What is that quote from? | 18:56 |
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| @kanzure | superkuh: a random, terrible news article. | 19:18 |
| @kanzure | but it claimed it was from some military/opensource conference | 19:19 |
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| juri_ | is this android-x86 image supposed to do anything but eat 100% of cpu, type out 'A N D R O I D', and show a shell prompt for less than 30 seconds, before making the screen go black? | 20:54 |
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| yash-phone | "military/opensource"? I think that answers the credibility question | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | juri_: yes | 20:57 |
| @kanzure | juri_: choose vesa mode | 20:57 |
| @kanzure | yash-phone: well, then how do you explain brlcad? | 20:57 |
| yash-phone | I would but I have only the most vague idea of what that is | 20:58 |
| yash-phone | and don't try to tell me because my screen is too small | 20:58 |
| @kanzure | well-written open source cad by the military | 20:58 |
| yash-phone | bah | 20:58 |
| yash-phone | ok, exception that proves the whatever | 20:59 |
| yash-phone | oh so I'm officially attending the xxxtreme futurist fest, plz review the speakers list and lmk who you need punched in the face | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | punch them all in the face | 21:00 |
| yash-phone | k | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | especially that haycord person | 21:00 |
| yash-phone | rachel haywood | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | that's the guy | 21:01 |
| juri_ | ok, now i have a stripe that updates.. and does nothing else. | 21:05 |
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| juri_ | and stopped updating. :/ | 21:09 |
| juri_ | oh, there it goes. | 21:09 |
| @kanzure | juri_: i suggest --enable-kvm or --kvm or whatever | 21:11 |
| @kanzure | the whole point of android-x86 is that you don't have to sit around waiting forever | 21:11 |
| juri_ | if i enable kvm, it takes out the VM its running inside of. | 21:12 |
| @kanzure | "it takes out" ? | 21:12 |
| juri_ | vm lockup. | 21:12 |
| @kanzure | does your computer suck? | 21:13 |
| juri_ | i'm tryin to launch it inside of a KVM vm. | 21:13 |
| juri_ | no, my VM server rocks. ;) | 21:14 |
| juri_ | and... dead VM. | 21:15 |
| @kanzure | try the debug option. | 21:16 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/search?q=vt-x+vulnerability uh, no? | 21:20 |
| @kanzure | henry markram just sent me a friendvite-thing on linkedin. neat. | 21:21 |
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| DoYouKnow | is it possible to use the theory of quantum deformations to produce acoustic or visual stimuli that shutdown/deactivate or increase the activity of various brain regions apart from the specialized circuits that are normally activated due to a stimulus? | 22:07 |
| DoYouKnow | for example, making a neuralizer | 22:09 |
| @kanzure | what is a neuralizer | 22:09 |
| yash-phone | yeah sure we've had that since 2008 | 22:09 |
| DoYouKnow | kanzure: it's a device that erases memory | 22:10 |
| DoYouKnow | in the movie Men in Black | 22:10 |
| @kanzure | why are you here | 22:10 |
| DoYouKnow | to study the brain, I suppose | 22:11 |
| DoYouKnow | or to discuss it | 22:11 |
| DoYouKnow | kanzure: why are you here? | 22:15 |
| DoYouKnow | and what about you yash? | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | i am here to stop people like you from mucking up the place | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | just stop with the quantum/brain stuff while you're ahead and go read some science | 22:16 |
| DoYouKnow | I wasn't saying quantum brain | 22:17 |
| yash-phone | pretty sure you were | 22:17 |
| DoYouKnow | I was saying quantum deformations used as a mathematical tool to produce signals that affect brain activation patterns | 22:17 |
| abetusk | anyone use kicad in here? | 22:18 |
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| abetusk | nmz787, you want to see my latest? | 22:20 |
| DoYouKnow | kanzure: well, particularly stochastic subordination | 22:21 |
| DoYouKnow | which is something that's used to achieve a q-deformation | 22:22 |
| DoYouKnow | of a stochastic process | 22:22 |
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| @fenn | this is possibly the most impenetrable wikipedia article i've come across yet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_group | 22:33 |
| @fenn | i suppose it doesn't help that i was introduced to group theory by a schizophrenic lady | 22:37 |
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| DoYouKnow | http://www.alainconnes.org/docs/book94bigpdf.pdf | 22:48 |
| DoYouKnow | that will explain noncommutative algebras/geometries | 22:49 |
| DoYouKnow | or should | 22:49 |
| @fenn | so your idea is similar to "understand" by ted chiang? | 22:50 |
| @kanzure | why not just forcefully shut down those brain regions by physical force | 22:56 |
| DoYouKnow | because that doesn't sound very useful kanzure | 22:57 |
| DoYouKnow | if you're trying to do something helpful, for example | 22:57 |
| DoYouKnow | you would still cause some damage | 22:57 |
| @fenn | or "the basilisk" in BLIT by Langford is another example | 22:58 |
| @kanzure | DoYouKnow: your goal was to deactivate the brain right? apply physical force, that will stop it. | 22:58 |
| @fenn | he said "... or increase the activity" | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | insert standard ultrasound claims here | 22:59 |
| @fenn | i really don't have a good enough grounding in group theory to understand what the idea is though | 22:59 |
| @fenn | perhaps brownies knows :P | 23:00 |
| DoYouKnow | well, the idea would be slowly transitioning from a frusterated ferromagnetic state (where the hopfield connections are ordered) to a glassy state (where the hopfield connections are random), by a series of random inputs for example, that are deformed in a specific way | 23:04 |
| DoYouKnow | *that are for example, deformed in a specific way | 23:04 |
| @fenn | you would have to know the structure of the network in advance | 23:05 |
| DoYouKnow | that's one idea anyway. The general idea is how to cause nonlocal phase transitions in a magnetic media | 23:05 |
| @fenn | also you'd have to know the rules for changing network topology, which we also don't know :( | 23:05 |
| @fenn | i don't see what magnetic media has to do with it? hard disks aren't spin networks | 23:07 |
| DoYouKnow | well, I mean, the brain is a lot like a magnetic media | 23:07 |
| @fenn | that's a bold statement that deserves further explanation to be taken seriously | 23:08 |
| @fenn | it's like saying "cats are a lot like computers" or "the universe is a lot like a pocketwatch" | 23:10 |
| @kanzure | 3.. 2... 1 | 23:10 |
| DoYouKnow | well, for example, spin glasses lose their magnetization after the field is removed similarly to how brain networks by silenced by rTMS | 23:11 |
| DoYouKnow | *are silenced by rTMS | 23:11 |
| DoYouKnow | there is a long remnant period after the rTMS | 23:11 |
| @kanzure | ok that wasn't as terrible as i was expecting | 23:11 |
| @fenn | kanzure: and thus begins the long process of translating math-speak to english | 23:12 |
| @fenn | i don't have time to read this book until i get a clone | 23:13 |
| * fenn goes back to shuffling bits | 23:13 | |
| @kanzure | DoYouKnow: we have at least two people in here who have built rTMS setups before, but i'm not one of them | 23:14 |
| @kanzure | if you want to stimulate the brain remotely, i suggest ultrasound over rTMS at this point. | 23:14 |
| @kanzure | s/over/instead of/ | 23:14 |
| @fenn | somehow i doubt he's an experimentalist | 23:14 |
| @kanzure | what gave it away | 23:14 |
| DoYouKnow | http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13298334/Control-of-Memory-and-Consciousness-with-Psychoacoustical-Phenomenon | 23:15 |
| DoYouKnow | I wrote that | 23:15 |
| @kanzure | i'm concerned because this indicates that you believe in consciousness, but i'll look | 23:16 |
| @kanzure | also, it means you like docstoc | 23:16 |
| @fenn | i haven't figured out how to download it yet | 23:17 |
| @fenn | is there supposed to be a flash player that shows the document? | 23:19 |
| @kanzure | it sends me to a popup and then asks me to pay a monthly fee for access | 23:19 |
| DoYouKnow | d'oh | 23:19 |
| DoYouKnow | ok, let me post something else | 23:19 |
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| @kanzure | verdict: docstoc is as evil as slideshare or scribd, or possibly even more evil | 23:20 |
| DoYouKnow | http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6866/timeviewk.png | 23:20 |
| DoYouKnow | a thought about remote temporal viewing using sonoluminescence | 23:21 |
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| DoYouKnow | viewing distant times | 23:21 |
| @fenn | ok that's enough | 23:21 |
| @fenn | you can leave now | 23:21 |
| DoYouKnow | I am particularly interested in carboniferous period plant life, so some of my effort has gone into retrieving information from past times | 23:23 |
| @fenn | DoYouKnow: do you smoke cigarettes? | 23:23 |
| DoYouKnow | especially moscovian | 23:23 |
| DoYouKnow | no, fenn | 23:24 |
| DoYouKnow | why? | 23:24 |
| @fenn | just curious | 23:24 |
| DoYouKnow | ideally I'd somehow figure out how to grow seed fern plants | 23:25 |
| DoYouKnow | which are long-extinct | 23:25 |
| DoYouKnow | since the late permian afaik | 23:25 |
| DoYouKnow | or mid | 23:25 |
| @fenn | how about DNA sequencing of fossils with electron microscopy | 23:25 |
| DoYouKnow | how would that work? as far as I know, coal balls have the best preservation and there haven't been any studies extracting DNA data | 23:26 |
| @fenn | i mean, how "real" does it have to be anyway? | 23:26 |
| @fenn | if you make a fern that looks like ancient ferns, is it good enough? | 23:27 |
| @fenn | well there are bits and pieces of junk left over.. presumably some of it crystallized around the DNA in such a way that the shape of the crystal depends on what the sequence was | 23:28 |
| DoYouKnow | well, if you can induce an atavism in a cycadale or gingkoale that creates a linear lanceolate pinnae with terminal pinnule, that would be pretty cool | 23:28 |
| @fenn | all highly speculative of course | 23:28 |
| DoYouKnow | right fenn, I've considered that too | 23:28 |
| DoYouKnow | I am very interested in what a terminal pinnule of a seed fern would even look like In Real Life | 23:29 |
| @fenn | also there are computational ways to extrapolate what the sequence of an ancestor is likely to have been, using multiple branches descended from it | 23:30 |
| DoYouKnow | how do you do that? | 23:30 |
| @fenn | uh, viterbi algorithm? i don't know | 23:30 |
| @fenn | the problem is that there's nothing special about any particular node in the tree | 23:32 |
| @fenn | all the ancestors have just as many random mutation as the descendents | 23:32 |
| @fenn | wow i dint know that viterbi decoding could be done in hardware | 23:33 |
| DoYouKnow | well, I would think that the issue would be... if you could build up the proteins from the code you can do peturbation analysis on the situation | 23:34 |
| DoYouKnow | *from the genetic code | 23:34 |
| @fenn | sure, if you have enough computational power available, anything's possible | 23:34 |
| DoYouKnow | then maybe relate it to the branches of a tree... somehow get it down so that given 1 or two distinguishing characteristics from fossils, you can reconstruct the organism | 23:35 |
| @fenn | you could simulate a billion universes and find the one with the prehistoric earth in it | 23:35 |
| DoYouKnow | I don't think science is available to do that yet | 23:35 |
| DoYouKnow | I mean, science + the computing power | 23:36 |
| @fenn | no, right now we can't simulate anything more complex than a hydrogen atom | 23:36 |
| @fenn | everything else is just approximations | 23:36 |
| DoYouKnow | well, this is more than just particles. the universe is ensembles of particles obeying further universal laws, some unknown | 23:36 |
| * fenn shrugs | 23:37 | |
| @fenn | standard model is a crap theory, but its predictions are very accurate | 23:37 |
| DoYouKnow | yeah, but the standard model doesn't factor in gravitation | 23:37 |
| DoYouKnow | which affects most of the universe more greatly than the other forces | 23:38 |
| DoYouKnow | due to the large scales involved | 23:38 |
| DoYouKnow | or at least as greatly | 23:38 |
| @fenn | the sort of questions you're after are on a smaller scale, where gravity doesn't play much of a role | 23:39 |
| @fenn | you can assume the mass of the earth stays constant | 23:39 |
| DoYouKnow | sure it does, for example... a mudslide encases the last surviving member of a plant species in mud | 23:39 |
| DoYouKnow | due to gravitation | 23:40 |
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| DoYouKnow | or the last grove of a plant species | 23:41 |
| DoYouKnow | there are all sorts of examples that probably have happened over the years that involve gravitation | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | fenn: verdict? | 23:41 |
| @fenn | mostly harmless | 23:42 |
| @fenn | DoYouKnow: are you familiar with the concept of confirmation bias? | 23:44 |
| @fenn | it's something to keep in mind when thinking about whether "remote viewing" is real or not | 23:45 |
| DoYouKnow | however, if you can isolate all the forces on earth from the rest of the universe, which would require a Theory of Everything for the rest of the universe, you might be able to simulate backwards certain events - assuming that quantum unpredictability has some predictable basis | 23:45 |
| DoYouKnow | fenn: I don't believe in remote viewing very strongly as far as the classic CIA remote viewers goes | 23:46 |
| DoYouKnow | Project Stargate, etc | 23:46 |
| @fenn | what other kind is there? satellite cameras? | 23:47 |
| DoYouKnow | no, there might be various chemical or electromagnetic processes that can alter mental state in such a way to allow for non-locality in macroscopic observation | 23:47 |
| DoYouKnow | but afaik, non-locality is restricted to the microscopic realm | 23:48 |
| DoYouKnow | as far as is certain | 23:48 |
| @fenn | how is that different from "the classic CIA" sense | 23:48 |
| DoYouKnow | well, the CIA remote viewers believed that macroscopic non-locality in remote viewing could be achieved without significant understanding of the mathematics or physics of non-local effects themselves | 23:49 |
| @fenn | except now you have to think about the effects of the DMT you smoked in addition to physics and mathematics and neuroscience and experimental design | 23:49 |
| DoYouKnow | fenn: what? | 23:50 |
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| @fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine is notorious for producing sensations of remote viewing, time travel, etc. | 23:52 |
| @fenn | if your scientific paradigm assumed that there existed such a thing as "mind" which possessed non-local characteristics and abilities, DMT would be a pretty good bet for someone attempting to activate those abilities | 23:53 |
| @fenn | through some external "chemical or electromagnetic processes" | 23:54 |
| @fenn | anyway, i understand the desire not to be marginalized and maintain pure scientific rigor | 23:55 |
| @fenn | the problem is "purity" still amounts to jack shit if your experimental design is bad | 23:55 |
| @fenn | am i making sense? | 23:55 |
| DoYouKnow | mimosa... that's sensitive plant | 23:56 |
| @fenn | yep | 23:56 |
| DoYouKnow | I used to have a sensitive plant | 23:57 |
| DoYouKnow | cool plants | 23:57 |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 19 00:00:02 2012 | ||
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