| --- Log opened Fri Dec 28 00:00:13 2012 | ||
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 00:00 | |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=31151513 Bryan Bishop: improve the section on the precautionary principle | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787 | so the micro structure doesnt collapse | 00:00 |
| nmz787 | i got thinking about this after we went to the movies last week | 00:01 |
| @fenn | oh, i was thinking for dna chromatography or something | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | they had a 4k projector (4 times area of bluray) | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | but i could still see significant chromatic aberration on black on white lettering | 00:01 |
| @fenn | heh | 00:02 |
| @fenn | you'd think they would calibrate that out | 00:02 |
| @fenn | i think jaydugger does something along those lines for his day job | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | and i was thinking, why didn't they spend a few more thousand on better optics... or do those not exist? or are they phenomenally more expensive? | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | like isn't there a 'perfect' way to do optics? | 00:03 |
| @fenn | it could be just improper assembly | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | i guess there's not a 'perfect' way to do electronics unless you get superconductors | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | so what are the superconductors of light? | 00:03 |
| @fenn | like, the machine works as designed, but you have to align it after putting it together | 00:04 |
| @fenn | vacuum | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | the problem is shit being non-linearized | 00:04 |
| @fenn | you know how superconductors work? | 00:04 |
| @fenn | i guess not | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | i assume its something where the conduction band is perfectly synced at all lattice locations | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | so there aren't emergent traffic jam type ripples | 00:05 |
| @fenn | when an electron in a metal gains enough energy to leave its valence band, it moves into the space between atoms. eventually it falls into another atom's valence band and gets stuck, and this has to happen a zillion times to conduct 1 coulomb over 1 meter | 00:06 |
| @fenn | in superconducting materials, there are ordered crystal patterns that leave charge neutral spaces, tubes that the electron can coast down without running into anything | 00:06 |
| @fenn | that's my understanding at least | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | ok, fits well with what i sorta thought | 00:07 |
| @fenn | jacobson coupling is like a flock of geese, one electron following another electron's wake field | 00:08 |
| @fenn | erm, josephson | 00:08 |
| @fenn | i hate things named after people | 00:09 |
| @kanzure | fennetic | 00:11 |
| @fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_pair | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 00:12 |
| @fenn | kanzure: that's an extension of me, of course it bears my name | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | atomic nanoscope is pretty cool | 00:12 |
| @fenn | why is it "nanoscope" instead of "atomic beam microscope" | 00:13 |
| @fenn | there aren't any other "nanoscopes" are there? | 00:14 |
| @fenn | while i'm hating on naming systems, people need to stop calling every little thing "nano-something" | 00:15 |
| @kanzure | fenn: make this suck less http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 00:16 |
| @kanzure | it's missing a section about transhumanist things like life extension or whole brain emulation | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | well because it has nano resolution | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | FIB is a nanoscope | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | but it uses ions not atoms | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | duh... | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | :P | 00:18 |
| @fenn | but nobody calls it a nanoscope | 00:19 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d1e2348d Bryan Bishop: fix markdown/css errors | 00:20 |
| @fenn | is there such a thing as a neutron microscope? | 00:22 |
| @fenn | at least you can focus neutrons with lenses, unlike helium atoms | 00:22 |
| @kanzure | iirc there was one based on neutron scattering | 00:23 |
| @fenn | i guess it's more like x-ray diffraction at that point | 00:25 |
| @fenn | "In principle, neutrons could provide better image resolution than visible light because they have shorter wavelengths—as short as 1 nanometer (nm) compared to 400-700 nm. In this demonstration at NIST’s Center for Neutron Research, the microscope produced a resolution of only 0.5 millimeters and a magnification of about 10." | 00:25 |
| @fenn | not much of a microscope | 00:26 |
| nmz787 | this is interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_reflector | 00:28 |
| @kanzure | that's odd.. i don't recall starting this article. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GameDev.net&offset=&limit=500&action=history | 00:28 |
| @fenn | according to the "who contributed this article" section, you did. | 00:31 |
| nmz787 | " These reflectors make use of the Fresnel lens effect, which allows for a concentrating mirror with a large aperture and short focal length while simultaneously reducing the volume of material required for the reflector. This greatly reduces the systems cost since sagged-glass parabolic reflectors are typically very expensive.[2] However, in recent years thin-film nanotechnology has significantly reduced the cost of parabolic mirrors." | 00:31 |
| nmz787 | well how the hell are the thin film ones made | 00:31 |
| @fenn | yeah i was going to build one of those in the desert | 00:33 |
| @kanzure | neat.. i'm rereading john carmack's email to me | 00:35 |
| @kanzure | "If you have really hit it big, you can aim right for orbit like Elon Musk." | 00:35 |
| @kanzure | that one is going straight to my head | 00:36 |
| @fenn | what the hell does "in recent years thin-film nanotechnology has significantly reduced the cost of parabolic mirrors." mean | 00:36 |
| @fenn | i guess carmack wasn't lucky enough | 00:37 |
| @fenn | why isn't anyone doing nuclear rockets? | 00:37 |
| nmz787 | yeah i'm not finding anything interesting on google scholar | 00:38 |
| @fenn | or at least beamed power rockets, like jordin kare's modular laser launch system | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | neither for 'fabrication perfect paraboic mirror' | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | parabolic* | 00:39 |
| @fenn | nmz787: i dont get what films have to do with parabolic mirrors at all | 00:39 |
| @fenn | are they talking about parabolic *fresnel* mirrors? | 00:39 |
| @fenn | "r. The system overcomes the | 00:41 |
| @fenn | cost barriers of traditional solar concentrators by using a new weather-proof, low-cost, | 00:41 |
| @fenn | high-reflectance polymeric film instead of the traditional heavy, glass-based mirror." | 00:41 |
| @fenn | yeah whatever | 00:41 |
| @fenn | "nanotech." hrmph. | 00:41 |
| nmz787 | guess this is how they make DLP chips??? http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1333505 | 00:41 |
| @fenn | i remember seeing a process (long time ago) that didn't involve any transfer step | 00:42 |
| nmz787 | this sounded good, but I think its talking about efficient reflection 'perfect' not aberration perfect http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5996488&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D5996488 | 00:43 |
| @fenn | the metamaterial is only tuned for perfect reflection at one wavelength | 00:45 |
| nmz787 | oO this is cool, but sounds hard http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1272576 | 00:45 |
| @fenn | isn't that the same thing? | 00:46 |
| @fenn | oh not quite | 00:47 |
| @fenn | this one uses conducting wires instead of dielectric plates | 00:47 |
| nmz787 | i was reading about newtons rings | 00:53 |
| nmz787 | so if you have completely flat surface, you should be able to polish glass to be perfect, but making the non-polised side of the lens flat is another thing i guess | 00:55 |
| @fenn | i thought you were doing an all-reflective system | 00:56 |
| nmz787 | yeah i am just adding in the lens side of PITAness | 00:56 |
| @fenn | btw making accurate optics is harder than it seems | 00:56 |
| @fenn | i tried to make prisms once.. FAIL | 00:57 |
| nmz787 | exactly | 00:57 |
| @fenn | i did get something that would transmit a laser beam, but it had a lot of distortion | 00:58 |
| @fenn | i ended up using a bent piece of mirrored acrylic, worked a zillion times better | 00:59 |
| @fenn | interesting.. superconductors have very small bandgaps, which means it might be possible to absorb and convert ambient thermal energy to electricity | 01:03 |
| @fenn | like maxwell's demon almost | 01:05 |
| @fenn | wow, apparently someone at UT developed an "atom diode", a wall which lets molecules in a gas go one way but not the other | 01:16 |
| @fenn | "these methods will enable efficient isotope separation for medicine and basic research, as well as controlling atoms in gas phase for nanoscale deposition on surfaces. This new, bottom-up, approach to nanoscience is called Atomoscience" | 01:18 |
| @fenn | :( | 01:18 |
| nmz787 | hmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_tunable_filter | 01:21 |
| @fenn | yes, and? | 01:22 |
| @fenn | it's no different from a dichroic coating | 01:22 |
| @fenn | nmz787: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langmuir%E2%80%93Blodgett_trough | 01:26 |
| @fenn | lctf's are definitely useful for spectral imaging, but there are easier ways to make a spetrometer | 01:31 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 01:42 |
| nmz787 | that ensures a single surface, but not flatness | 01:42 |
| @fenn | you can use it to construct a dichroic coating from organic polymers, presumably the sort which form liquid crystals | 01:43 |
| @fenn | i'm just curious why you linked to the lctf page | 01:44 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 01:47 |
| nmz787 | oh just something i remembered, i knew it was pretty lossy tranmission-wise | 01:48 |
| @fenn | oh.. blodgett films can also be tuned like a monochromator, without absorption losses | 01:48 |
| @fenn | varying the film thickness changes the reflected wavelength | 01:49 |
| @fenn | you vary the film thickness by moving the sides of the trough in and out | 01:50 |
| @fenn | it's not solid state though, so there are probably all sorts of fluid flow artifacts | 01:51 |
| nmz787 | moving the sides makes layering happen? | 01:51 |
| @fenn | um. the layer thickness is simply the volume of amphiphilic material divided by the surface area.. if you move the sides around it changes the surface area | 01:54 |
| @fenn | there are some nonlinearities of course due to the structure of the monolayer | 01:54 |
| @fenn | there's a limit to tunability.. you can only have one layer at a time | 01:57 |
| @fenn | presumably longer chain molecules can be tuned over a wider range.. but good luck finding extremely long chain liquids | 01:57 |
| superkuh | Dissolved ions could affect the birefringence as well depending on the amphiphilic material. If it's a phopholipid then physical phase changes because of monovalent vs divalent cation exchanges in association with the carboxyl groups will cause transient optical scattering and polarization. | 01:59 |
| superkuh | Er, phospholipid. | 02:00 |
| superkuh | I suppose that's tangential to the topic at hand, though. | 02:00 |
| nmz787 | interesting tangent though | 02:01 |
| @fenn | yes they mention contamination as a problem | 02:01 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:42 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@161.sub-70-192-66.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 02:59 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@2600:1001:b019:1cc4:b8de:e00e:a890:8b25] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:02 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@2600:1001:b019:1cc4:b8de:e00e:a890:8b25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 03:08 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@238.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:10 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:11 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ [~wrldpc@185.sub-70-192-68.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:36 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@238.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 03:36 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ is now known as wrldpc | 03:36 | |
| -!- syntrope [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 04:00 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:02 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Changing host] | 04:02 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:02 | |
| -!- syntrope_ [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:03 | |
| -!- syntrope_ [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 04:07 | |
| -!- syntrope [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:08 | |
| -!- syntrope [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 04:09 | |
| -!- syntrope [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:09 | |
| -!- syntrope [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 04:14 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@185.sub-70-192-68.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 04:18 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:18 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@142.sub-70-192-81.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:21 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:26 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ [~wrldpc@81.sub-70-192-87.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:31 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@142.sub-70-192-81.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 04:32 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ is now known as wrldpc | 04:32 | |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 05:06 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:08 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:10 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 05:12 | |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.140] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:12 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 05:13 | |
| -!- augur_ is now known as augur | 05:16 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:33 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:34 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 05:48 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:04 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ [~wrldpc@77.sub-70-192-67.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:14 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@81.sub-70-192-87.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 06:15 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ is now known as wrldpc | 06:15 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] | 06:27 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@77.sub-70-192-67.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 06:28 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@17.sub-70-192-66.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:35 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ [~wrldpc@29.sub-70-192-90.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:40 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@17.sub-70-192-66.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 06:41 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ is now known as wrldpc | 06:41 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:43 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@29.sub-70-192-90.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 07:00 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@58.sub-70-192-87.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:01 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@58.sub-70-192-87.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 07:13 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 07:16 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@128.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:21 | |
| -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@94-194-89-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:25 | |
| -!- strages_1ome [~strages@98.67.163.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:30 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.175.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 07:32 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@128.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 07:43 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@128.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:50 | |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:11 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@128.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 08:12 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@2600:1001:b009:dcf0:9464:7db9:4264:fb35] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:19 | |
| -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] | 08:27 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@2600:1001:b009:dcf0:9464:7db9:4264:fb35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 08:27 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@226.sub-70-192-81.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:29 | |
| -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:31 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:56 | |
| -!- strages_1ome [~strages@98.67.163.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 09:07 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.163.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:09 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@226.sub-70-192-81.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 09:13 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@229.sub-70-192-72.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:19 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 09:22 | |
| -!- joehot [~not@bas5-kingston08-2925406539.dsl.bell.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:24 | |
| @kanzure | "Adafruit to teach electronics through puppets in new kids’ show Circuit Playground" | 09:36 |
| chris_99 | this https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/circuit-playground/id492487671?mt=8 ? | 09:37 |
| chris_99 | i don't see no puppets :'( | 09:37 |
| @kanzure | hmm | 09:37 |
| -!- seeker [63ec6924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.236.105.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 09:41 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:48 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@229.sub-70-192-72.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 10:03 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@125.sub-70-192-67.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:08 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:10 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:11 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@125.sub-70-192-67.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 10:23 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@c-71-236-101-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 10:38 | |
| -!- TheEmpath [~TheEmpath@hsrp-bgp.4over.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:42 | |
| TheEmpath | hail | 10:42 |
| TheEmpath | a posit | 10:43 |
| TheEmpath | Anyone who invests in manifesting the technology that makes deep space transportation possible runs the risk of it being the last investment they can ever make. | 10:43 |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: welcome back | 10:45 |
| TheEmpath | hail kanzure | 10:45 |
| TheEmpath | been busy coding something that can analyze the picture of a flowchart on a whiteboard and convert it into a REST platform based on the relationships in the picture. | 10:46 |
| TheEmpath | solves the persistence aspect of rapid prototyping very quickly | 10:46 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 10:48 | |
| @kanzure | why not just take a flowchart as input instead? the vision problem is separate. | 10:51 |
| TheEmpath | exactly | 10:54 |
| TheEmpath | the vision problem is just for advertising purposes anyways | 10:54 |
| TheEmpath | ideally, it iwll take UML, XML representations of flowcharts, or actaul pictures of it | 10:54 |
| TheEmpath | walk into a software company, take a picture, ask for an email, walk out | 10:55 |
| TheEmpath | thats my demonstration | 10:55 |
| TheEmpath | let the results speak for themselves | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | drawing a flowchart takes me longer than writing some sinatra code. | 10:58 |
| TheEmpath | plenty of little guys out there that can't quite get ruby running | 11:01 |
| TheEmpath | for one reason or another | 11:01 |
| TheEmpath | oh | 11:02 |
| TheEmpath | also, anyone familiar with running SILC servers? | 11:02 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:02 | |
| brownies | that's your market? | 11:04 |
| brownies | people who routinely architect REST APIs but can't get Ruby running? | 11:04 |
| TheEmpath | its bigger than you think | 11:04 |
| TheEmpath | but thats just one part of it | 11:04 |
| TheEmpath | there are companies that haven't adopted to REST yet and want to quickly get on board | 11:04 |
| TheEmpath | and dont wanna drop 100k a year on a ruby team | 11:05 |
| TheEmpath | i can even analyze their standing database and convert it to REST | 11:05 |
| TheEmpath | automatically | 11:05 |
| TheEmpath | its small | 11:05 |
| TheEmpath | im not solving ontological problems, im just solving one specific one | 11:06 |
| TheEmpath | specific case* | 11:06 |
| @kanzure | 100k/year will get you 1 ruby person. | 11:15 |
| @fenn | how much for a diamond person | 11:17 |
| TheEmpath | http://instantrimshot.com/ | 11:18 |
| * fenn bows | 11:19 | |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: do you actually have clients that want more uml and less people? | 11:19 |
| TheEmpath | i have 4 beta testers lined up right now | 11:19 |
| TheEmpath | humble beginnings, etc | 11:20 |
| TheEmpath | can this stand in lieu of a proper production server? probably not | 11:20 |
| TheEmpath | but there is always that one exec who wants things now and will pull assets off of a milestone to prototype an idea | 11:20 |
| TheEmpath | that's my true target audience | 11:21 |
| @fenn | so, uh, get to it | 11:23 |
| TheEmpath | all over it :D | 11:23 |
| barriers | lol | 11:26 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=01b96b26 Bryan Bishop: add links to hackerspaces and biohacking groups | 11:39 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=1edc1dd0 Bryan Bishop: minor wording changes | 11:39 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=a975fe83 Bryan Bishop: even more word choices | 11:39 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=050871b5 Bryan Bishop: add an explicit list of transhuman tech | 11:39 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e65ec484 Bryan Bishop: forgot neural implants | 11:40 |
| @fenn | can we get a filename in the commit notice? | 11:42 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:42 | |
| jrayhawk | They aren't guaranteed to be one filename. | 11:42 |
| @fenn | can we get a filename in the commit notice? | 11:43 |
| jrayhawk | But I guess that's the common case, so I can probably make that work... | 11:43 |
| @fenn | ideally it would say something like <commit url> foo.txt (and 87 other files) <author> <commit msg> | 11:44 |
| jrayhawk | ugh, bash arrays | 11:48 |
| @kanzure | hooks don't have to be bash scripts | 11:48 |
| jrayhawk | sadly, it is appropriate | 11:49 |
| @fenn | can you just do wc -w | 11:50 |
| @kanzure | don't you mean -l | 11:50 |
| @fenn | i figured it would be on one line | 11:50 |
| jrayhawk | Well, I need to both store at least one line and also count all the lines | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration today's work | 11:53 |
| yashgaroth | I like it | 11:54 |
| * chido likes it too | 11:56 | |
| TheEmpath | fucking spiffy | 11:56 |
| TheEmpath | one addendum! | 11:56 |
| yashgaroth | I mean, "Obvious statements" is a hell of a section header, but it does work | 11:56 |
| TheEmpath | i think we all agree that tech is disruptive, not only to the consumer, but to the powers that be. | 11:57 |
| TheEmpath | so.. when we start building all these things… a review on the economic impact has to be considered as well.. and not just a basics "more productivity = more profit" | 11:57 |
| chido | I love how genetic engineering is the first point under transhumanist technilogy, makes me feel relevant :D | 11:57 |
| TheEmpath | how does this affect central banking paradigms? | 11:57 |
| TheEmpath | its worth reviewing, imo | 11:57 |
| @fenn | who gives a shit | 11:58 |
| @fenn | bankers haven't stopped bitcoin have they? | 11:58 |
| @fenn | so what are they going to do about matter compilers or brain scans or whatever | 11:59 |
| TheEmpath | “Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the BAnk.” | 12:00 |
| TheEmpath | just saying, broski | 12:00 |
| TheEmpath | brb lunch | 12:00 |
| * fenn chews on a light saber | 12:01 | |
| chido | question: why is programming "the best way to experience the most immediate gains in transhumanist undertakings"? | 12:07 |
| jrayhawk | computational power is a brain augmentation, and the better you know how to interface with the computational power, the better the augmentation | 12:08 |
| -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:11 | |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: what the hell? why are you bringing banking into this | 12:15 |
| @kanzure | chido: when looking at other transhumanist docs, don't you find it strange that none of them mention programming? | 12:15 |
| @kanzure | how on earth are you going to do any of this without at least some understanding of programming? | 12:15 |
| @kanzure | programming is absurdly easy to get into these days. you don't even have to type crap up from magazines. | 12:16 |
| @fenn | magazines? | 12:16 |
| chido | kanzure: to be honest, I don't really look at other transhumanist docs... I'm too busy teaching myself genetic engineerig :) | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | fenn: apparently, people used to read magazines and then type source code from them | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | and this is how they learned to write code. | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | ... or something. | 12:16 |
| chido | kanzure: but I see your point; there's probably no other skill with so many resources available online like programming | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | also, jrayhawk's answer is more correct in the sense that he explains why it is relevant | 12:17 |
| @fenn | more importantly, the realm of relevant human functions is shrinking as technology progresses. we no longer have "computers" or "millers" or "smiths" | 12:18 |
| @kanzure | holy hell is that where the last name miller comes from | 12:18 |
| chido | I just didn't realize that computational power can be considered a brain augmentation, but it makes sense | 12:18 |
| yashgaroth | but surely I can hire a programmer with the fat stacks of cash that biology pays...oh wait | 12:18 |
| * yashgaroth grudgingly opens up the 500 page biopython tutorial | 12:19 | |
| @kanzure | ehh bioinformatics is easier to learn if you have an actual project | 12:20 |
| chido | I chose biology over programming as my contribution partly because I got the feeling that there's a lack of people with that kind of skill; most transhumanists I ever ran into happened to be programmers | 12:20 |
| yashgaroth | "most" being "practically all" | 12:20 |
| @kanzure | chido: maybe you should focus on just learning things that you need to know, rather than based on who you meet? | 12:20 |
| @fenn | chido: most of the technologies behind the internet were invented at the augmentation research center, guess what they were referring to | 12:21 |
| @fenn | or at least the UI parts | 12:21 |
| @kanzure | but yes, most transhumanists are painfully uneducated about biology | 12:21 |
| chido | kanzure: I said partly because :) my main reason was because genetic engineering is fucking awesome | 12:21 |
| @fenn | mouse, wiki, hyperlinks.. what am i forgetting | 12:21 |
| @kanzure | menus :( | 12:22 |
| @kanzure | wait no. menus existed before menus. | 12:22 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:22 | |
| @fenn | i thought NLS was chord shortcut based anyway | 12:22 |
| chido | I learn things I want to know, I'm selfish like that | 12:23 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i feel like i'm missing a few agency-related things, and that my explanation of recursive self-improvement is lacking. it's not "cool shit just because it's cool" but rather "this shit because any reasonable agent with these motivations would probably come to these conclusions by blah steps" | 12:24 |
| @kanzure | oh god i am breaking my no philosophy rule | 12:25 |
| @kanzure | maybe i should perma-ban myself. | 12:25 |
| @fenn | i didnt detect any philosophy | 12:25 |
| @fenn | game theory doesn't count, it's just math | 12:25 |
| @kanzure | math doesn't count huh. good to know. | 12:26 |
| @fenn | in soviet russia, count doesn't math you, or something | 12:26 |
| yashgaroth | soviet romania if you're involving the count | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | i bet chido's parents were soviets | 12:28 |
| @fenn | hey now | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | that's a good thing, it means we have a primary source right here. | 12:28 |
| jrayhawk | Three! Three permabans for philosophy! Ah ah ah... | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | soviet dracula | 12:29 |
| chido | hmm, I don't know about my father, but I'm pretty sure my mother does know how to speak russian, does that qualify? | 12:29 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 12:29 | |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=568eafbe Bryan Bishop: be consistent about character choices | 12:30 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:31 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 12:36 | |
| @kanzure | fenn: also, while reading wikipedia today i noticed this terrible truth.. | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | "This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990, and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement." | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | intelligentsia: "is a social class of people engaged in complex mental labour aimed at disseminating culture. This therefore might include everyone from artists to school teachers and book readers." | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | wikipedia is often not correct but in this case i think it's probably right that they wanted to be an "intelligentsia" | 12:38 |
| -!- qu-bit is now known as genopsych | 12:38 | |
| @fenn | yes, uh, good job? | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | no i'm just disappointed that i wasn't aware that they considered themselves an intelligentsia. | 12:39 |
| @fenn | there's a long history of the word with various connotations | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | hell their austin group was called "austin intelligentsia", i thought that was just because they were elitist pricks and i ignored it | 12:39 |
| -!- genopsych is now known as qu-bit | 12:41 | |
| @fenn | mmm scones | 12:41 |
| @fenn | aw man, no hits for "sconist" | 12:42 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/morewinks/commit/?id=177a7967 : Joe Rayhawk: MORE WINKS FOR THE WINK PILE | 12:44 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/morewinks/commit/?id=3102d1af i +2: Joe Rayhawk: ;) ;) ;) ;) | 12:44 |
| jrayhawk | hmm | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | wait are you still fighting with bash? | 12:44 |
| jrayhawk | I ADMIT NOTHING | 12:45 |
| jrayhawk | if you create a new head, gnushabot would spit out the entire revision history if it weren't for git being dumb | 12:46 |
| jrayhawk | what's it called when the only reason a bug doesn't manifest is because of another bug | 12:47 |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 12:48 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:48 | |
| @kanzure | serendipity. | 12:48 |
| @fenn | defense in depth | 12:49 |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:50 | |
| jrayhawk | serendipity is a php "weblog manager with extensive theming and plugin support" | 12:51 |
| jrayhawk | serendipitously, you are probably therefor correct | 12:52 |
| jrayhawk | a fractal of bad semantics | 12:52 |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 12:53 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:53 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 12:56 | |
| @fenn | my brain hurts | 12:56 |
| @kanzure | too much magnesium | 12:58 |
| jrayhawk | hair of the dog! | 12:58 |
| @fenn | good lord it's sunset already? | 12:59 |
| @fenn | what is wrong with this timezone | 12:59 |
| -!- qu-bit [~heisenbur@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Changing host] | 12:59 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~heisenbur@unaffiliated/qu-bit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:59 | |
| @fenn | kanzure: it was the "serendipity is a ..." | 13:03 |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 13:03 | |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/morewinks/commit/?id=177a7967 i +4: Joe Rayhawk: MORE WINKS FOR THE WINK PILE | 13:06 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/morewinks/commit/?id=3102d1af i +1: Joe Rayhawk: ;) ;) ;) ;) | 13:06 |
| jrayhawk | hmm. So what should I do about the 'new head' problem? For an ref update with no previous revision, should I just print *only* the current ref information? | 13:10 |
| jrayhawk | I could use a date heuristic, I guess. | 13:10 |
| jrayhawk | or maybe the reflog would help me... | 13:10 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:10 | |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: how about limiting it to 5 commits and then the next message being ".. and 400 other commits." | 13:11 |
| jrayhawk | hah, okay | 13:12 |
| jrayhawk | eh, still ugly. hmm. There must be a way. | 13:15 |
| @kanzure | fenn: could you at some point update the laser_cutter.git todo file or make sure it's correct? | 13:15 |
| @kanzure | sigh i mean laser_etcher.git | 13:15 |
| @fenn | um, there isnt much there really | 13:16 |
| TheEmpath | kanzure: humans invent technology. banks motivate humans to invent technology by controlling the definition of value. therefore, if technology feeds back or encroaches upon the definition of value, its worth looking into | 13:16 |
| TheEmpath | i don | 13:16 |
| TheEmpath | i don't believe the industrial revolution was a willy nilly free for all. someone could easily map the outcome of the game the same way we are doing it | 13:16 |
| @fenn | "banks motivate humans" do they | 13:17 |
| TheEmpath | they most certainly do. its their only job | 13:17 |
| TheEmpath | keep the demand for currency higher than the currency thats in the system. bamf. humans are now motivated. | 13:17 |
| @kanzure | the 'industrial revolution' wasn't about technology. most of that technology already existed. | 13:17 |
| TheEmpath | the concepts already existed thanks to Newton | 13:17 |
| @kanzure | no it was not because of newton, wtf.. | 13:18 |
| TheEmpath | ... | 13:18 |
| @fenn | it was because of newcomen and the progression of cities | 13:18 |
| TheEmpath | you think principia had no impact on why the british led the charge into the industrial age? | 13:18 |
| @fenn | and maudslay and ... | 13:18 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@ip-64-134-96-12.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:18 | |
| @kanzure | i seem to recall the arabs "inventing" most of that stuff a few centuries earlier.. | 13:19 |
| TheEmpath | and yet, no industrial revolution for them | 13:19 |
| @fenn | the arabs had no engine lathe | 13:19 |
| TheEmpath | figure out that discrepency | 13:19 |
| TheEmpath | the key is the banks | 13:19 |
| @kanzure | why are you focusing on the industrial revolution? | 13:19 |
| TheEmpath | its a great model for disruptive tech | 13:20 |
| TheEmpath | the same we are promoting | 13:20 |
| @kanzure | what | 13:20 |
| -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 13:20 | |
| @fenn | i can see the analogy | 13:20 |
| @fenn | i don't get what banks have to do with anything though | 13:20 |
| TheEmpath | ah | 13:20 |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: it doesn't matter if it's disruptive or not | 13:21 |
| TheEmpath | the example is there, as kanzure pointed out, the arabs did have many of these concepts and implementations down post-antiquity | 13:21 |
| TheEmpath | distillation, chemistry, algebra, etc | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | i didn't know about arabs not having lathes, that sucks | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | what did they do, chissel their things | 13:21 |
| TheEmpath | iteratively | 13:21 |
| @fenn | casting mostly | 13:21 |
| TheEmpath | they had all the tools to get it there, but they lacked the ability to get those tools to a scale which transforms their economic base | 13:22 |
| @fenn | they had simple lathes, but nothing capable of making a steam cylinder | 13:22 |
| TheEmpath | their guns were impressive by dark ages standards | 13:22 |
| @kanzure | but who cares about their economic base? | 13:22 |
| @kanzure | i mean why are you bringing that up? | 13:22 |
| @fenn | because islam forbids usury | 13:23 |
| TheEmpath | there is a relationship between financial innovation and scientific innovation | 13:23 |
| TheEmpath | BINGO | 13:23 |
| TheEmpath | islam forbids usury | 13:23 |
| @kanzure | i'm not interested in innovation | 13:23 |
| TheEmpath | therefore, no one can say "I gamble that my tech will meet this much profit" | 13:23 |
| @fenn | in case you don't know, the word means earning interest on loans | 13:23 |
| @kanzure | if this stuff was already created i would still want it | 13:23 |
| @fenn | "i'm not interested in innovation"? | 13:24 |
| @kanzure | fenn: i don't care if it's innovation or not | 13:24 |
| @kanzure | i asked why she was bringing it up, and she said "there is a relationship between financial innovation and scientific innovation" so i commented about innovation | 13:24 |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: there are a thousand different ways to organize a society or economy and we have barely experimented with the most of them | 13:26 |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: i'm not sure i'm motivated by disruption for the sake of disruption | 13:27 |
| @fenn | don't you want to invest in my genetically re-engineered smallpox startup? | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | juri_: ah i didn't know that makibox was nils hitze. i know nils. | 13:29 |
| TheEmpath | sorry phone call | 13:29 |
| TheEmpath | kanzure: yes, these are many ways to organize human potential to achieve desired ends | 13:29 |
| TheEmpath | but that assumes that the current organization scheme lies down and simply takes it | 13:30 |
| @kanzure | so, in the context of the link that we were discussing, there was nothing on that page about 'the current organization scheme' for a reason | 13:30 |
| TheEmpath | sorry, looking for the link | 13:30 |
| TheEmpath | oh, yes | 13:31 |
| TheEmpath | yes, that lack of recognizing that scheme is, of course, what i am discussing | 13:31 |
| @kanzure | if you're not talking about that, then that would explain why talking with you is so hard for me | 13:31 |
| @kanzure | ah okay good | 13:31 |
| TheEmpath | ya | 13:31 |
| TheEmpath | i dunno how to go about disucssing that topic communally, to be honest | 13:31 |
| @kanzure | the document doesn't claim to address 'ways to organize human potential' | 13:32 |
| @kanzure | so i don't see how that is relevant... see? | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | ah | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | right | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | the gaps are filled in my mind | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | i just assume they are filled elsewhere | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | so... | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | we are in the business of inventing new toys that do amazing things | 13:32 |
| TheEmpath | but what made us invent the new toys? | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | my brain. | 13:33 |
| TheEmpath | thats a big big part of it | 13:33 |
| TheEmpath | but it isn't the only factor | 13:33 |
| @fenn | who is "we" referring to? | 13:34 |
| TheEmpath | by we, i mean the people who recognize the impact these new technologies will have. which would be us, the h+ community | 13:34 |
| TheEmpath | or as per this IRC channel lol | 13:34 |
| TheEmpath | new toys means new power | 13:35 |
| @fenn | okay. you'd be surprised how often pronoun abuse leads to confusion | 13:35 |
| TheEmpath | new ways to bend the universe to our will | 13:35 |
| TheEmpath | but not just the will of the h+ community | 13:35 |
| TheEmpath | if you do not understand the technology, what is more efficient? learning the tech or controlling the technician? | 13:35 |
| TheEmpath | efficiency being measured as utilizing the new tech to bend the universe to your will | 13:35 |
| TheEmpath | some people are inclined to learn tech quickly.. im sure many of us in this channel fall intro that category | 13:36 |
| TheEmpath | but there is another skill set worth observing | 13:36 |
| TheEmpath | and that is manipulating human nature | 13:36 |
| -!- emancipate [~emancipat@50.14.1.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:36 | |
| @fenn | um, taking drugs that enable you to learn faster? | 13:36 |
| @fenn | (that's what i call manipulating human nature) | 13:37 |
| TheEmpath | in the end, the human brain is only possible of the human body is taken care of | 13:37 |
| @fenn | i assume you mean "business as usual" | 13:37 |
| TheEmpath | right | 13:37 |
| TheEmpath | business as usual | 13:37 |
| @fenn | big fucking deal | 13:37 |
| TheEmpath | it certainly is | 13:37 |
| @fenn | how is that even anything? why call yourself a transhumanist if it's just maximize ROI | 13:37 |
| TheEmpath | it's not me thinking this way natively | 13:38 |
| TheEmpath | its me recognizing that people do look at it this way | 13:38 |
| TheEmpath | and if you just reject the premise, you are missing on a very important part of the transition | 13:38 |
| @kanzure | transition...? | 13:38 |
| TheEmpath | aye… moving from post-indsutrial/pre-information to a GRAIN methodology isn't an overnight process | 13:38 |
| TheEmpath | there is a time delay | 13:39 |
| @fenn | there are many ways to take money from people that don't result in any increase in potential.. | 13:39 |
| TheEmpath | im not talking about money. im talking about power | 13:39 |
| TheEmpath | those that control the current scheme will look to these techs as ways to maximize their power | 13:39 |
| @fenn | fine. there are many ways to take power from people that don't result in any increase in potential. | 13:39 |
| TheEmpath | be it an army of genetic misfits or good-enough drones are going to make certain people powerful is also not what im talking about | 13:40 |
| @fenn | what's "GRAIN methodology"? | 13:40 |
| TheEmpath | Genetics/Robotics/Artifical Intelligence/Nanotech | 13:40 |
| @fenn | oh. i hate acronyms like that | 13:41 |
| TheEmpath | lol | 13:41 |
| TheEmpath | yeah, it kinda does lump them all together in a very ugly way | 13:41 |
| @fenn | BIO NANO INFO COGNO SCIENCE CONVERGENCE | 13:41 |
| TheEmpath | what im saying is the people who are going to pay for these toys initially are the big boys of hte current scheme | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | so? | 13:42 |
| TheEmpath | and they are going to want these toys to prolong their current hold | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | i don't follow you. why not do it first with your own money instead? | 13:43 |
| TheEmpath | sure, the DIY aspect is there | 13:43 |
| TheEmpath | until an army of people take your discovery and apply it to their power paradigm | 13:43 |
| TheEmpath | to preserve their influence | 13:43 |
| TheEmpath | im not saying dont do anything | 13:43 |
| @kanzure | i just don't care about their influence | 13:43 |
| @kanzure | why should i | 13:43 |
| @kanzure | it would be nice if they assisted me but it's not the end of the world if they don't | 13:44 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-179-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:45 | |
| TheEmpath | thats a good question | 13:46 |
| TheEmpath | why should anyone care about a collection of people whose sole job on this planet is to manipulate human behavior towards their desired goals | 13:46 |
| -!- joshcryer [g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:46 | |
| TheEmpath | if they aren't hurting anyone, meh | 13:46 |
| TheEmpath | sure | 13:46 |
| @kanzure | okay, but what does that have to do with /declaration | 13:47 |
| TheEmpath | because wild growth gets tamed | 13:47 |
| TheEmpath | the technology being discussed will grow emensely | 13:47 |
| TheEmpath | and have all of the outcomes we are seeing | 13:47 |
| TheEmpath | but its not just us seeing it | 13:48 |
| TheEmpath | it will be other perspectives that want to shape that outcome | 13:48 |
| TheEmpath | potentially away from what we envision | 13:48 |
| TheEmpath | being cognizant of those other perspectives will allow us to ensure that our outcomes are not hijacked | 13:49 |
| @kanzure | it appears that you're the one doing the hijacking at the moment | 13:49 |
| @kanzure | i'm just trying to understand. | 13:49 |
| TheEmpath | im pointing out obvious outcomes of technology. | 13:50 |
| TheEmpath | we were told the internet was to liberate us, but it has been twisted to be a panopticon | 13:50 |
| TheEmpath | the industrial age was supposed to free us from the hardship of farm work, but instead, we donned the chains of wage slavery | 13:50 |
| @kanzure | um | 13:50 |
| @kanzure | that's a lot of nice words, but maybe you just suck at deploying networks and maybe you suck at automating farm work | 13:51 |
| TheEmpath | or maybe i dont suck at saving time and its cheaper to hire mexicans than invent drones | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | huh? | 13:51 |
| @fenn | or maybe political systems that perpetuate pointless competition reduce overall efficency | 13:52 |
| TheEmpath | there are ramifications to this technology, and i dont mean ethical ones | 13:52 |
| TheEmpath | being aware of what the next seven steps are can help you in your first few steps | 13:53 |
| TheEmpath | but if you truly believe that the power of this tech will steamroll through the current power paradigm | 13:54 |
| TheEmpath | well, you are right | 13:54 |
| TheEmpath | many people will be bankrupted and old empires will fall | 13:54 |
| TheEmpath | but it will be the biggest bull on the scene, and it will create the incentive to master the growth of that tech | 13:54 |
| TheEmpath | what im suggesting is to discuss the ways in which those who will react that way can operate | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | you sound more interested in global governance schemes or something.. nobody has claimed that transhuman tech is an answer to governance or whatever. | 13:55 |
| TheEmpath | and not let them lead the discussion | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | maybe you've been fooled by someone | 13:55 |
| TheEmpath | just follow things to their natural conclusions | 13:55 |
| TheEmpath | you invent farming drones, and you destroy Dole | 13:55 |
| TheEmpath | but all of their competition will want a piece of that action | 13:55 |
| TheEmpath | and they'll come to you | 13:56 |
| TheEmpath | not to mention Dole will still be around, probably wanting some degree of revenge | 13:56 |
| TheEmpath | so who controls the path of the development of that tech at that time? | 13:56 |
| TheEmpath | you? the inventor? | 13:56 |
| TheEmpath | no | 13:56 |
| TheEmpath | the market does | 13:56 |
| delinquentme | we're automating congress? | 13:57 |
| TheEmpath | lol | 13:57 |
| delinquentme | enstating proxy voters? | 13:57 |
| TheEmpath | at that point, you have now been thrusted into the game of power where you will either maintain your position or have people who emulate your tactics and potentially supercede you | 13:57 |
| TheEmpath | now that might be fine | 13:57 |
| @kanzure | i don't even know how to respond to you, you're making up stuff left and right | 13:57 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@ip-64-134-96-12.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 13:57 | |
| TheEmpath | im creating a thought experiment on how technology takes out the powerful | 13:57 |
| eudoxia | TheEmpath can you just write that manifesto up somewhere else and link it to us | 13:57 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@ip-64-134-96-12.public.wayport.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:58 | |
| TheEmpath | which is an inevitable outcome to this endevour | 13:58 |
| TheEmpath | eudoxia: sure | 13:58 |
| @fenn | why can't dole just invent the drones themselves in the first place? | 13:59 |
| TheEmpath | the same way Warner Music didn't invent iTunes | 14:00 |
| TheEmpath | dudes get entrenched, full of hubris, whatever | 14:00 |
| TheEmpath | humans are stupid | 14:00 |
| @kanzure | i think eudoxia's idea is best | 14:00 |
| TheEmpath | aye | 14:01 |
| TheEmpath | i'll submit it for review | 14:01 |
| TheEmpath | tear it apart at will :D | 14:01 |
| delinquentme | what was the idear? | 14:01 |
| @kanzure | i have no clue | 14:01 |
| * fenn sleeps | 14:01 | |
| TheEmpath | to discuss the economic ramifications and to discover the power interests of these h+ techs so to be aware of them | 14:01 |
| @kanzure | maybe you would prefer to go somewhere else to do that | 14:02 |
| @kanzure | thanks | 14:02 |
| TheEmpath | you stand on the cusp of the most destabilizing transition in human history and you're not even remotely interested in how it's going to turn out? | 14:02 |
| TheEmpath | you must be a technician | 14:02 |
| @kanzure | yep | 14:03 |
| TheEmpath | those who don't do power are done by power | 14:03 |
| TheEmpath | none the less, i'll submit | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | i think you're making things up. who is it that isn't doing power? | 14:04 |
| @kanzure | what does "doing power" even fucking mean | 14:04 |
| TheEmpath | it means being cognizant that there are powerful collections of people out there who will do -whatever- it takes to maintain their position | 14:05 |
| TheEmpath | here's a good example | 14:05 |
| TheEmpath | lets say by some twist of innovation, humans can colonize mars | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | okay..... but i don't know why you care about their position? | 14:05 |
| TheEmpath | ah | 14:05 |
| TheEmpath | thats a good observation | 14:05 |
| TheEmpath | the conclusion of this thought experiment will explain it | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | i doubt it | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | i am not interested in this discussion | 14:05 |
| TheEmpath | humans are on mars and they go "fuck earth, bro!" | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | and they rebel | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | and now they are the Martian PEople's Front | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | what does Earth do? | 14:06 |
| eudoxia | well invade obviously | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | invade? | 14:06 |
| eudoxia | otherwise how is the novel going to get going? | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | how about nuke them from orbit | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | and eliminate them entirely | 14:06 |
| TheEmpath | and push out the next wave of poor people to be the next colonists | 14:06 |
| @kanzure | truly you are a military master | 14:07 |
| eudoxia | you'd think the people on mars would have some basic defenses against something slow like a nuke | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | nah only earth can have that | 14:07 |
| eudoxia | i'm assuming it's not a _relativistic_ nuke, but that would be just silly wouldn't it? | 14:07 |
| TheEmpath | i think that their Earth masters would never allow it | 14:07 |
| TheEmpath | because thats what power is about | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | earth.. masters.. | 14:07 |
| @fenn | spacefaring civilization with relativistic weapons? never | 14:08 |
| eudoxia | what are their earth masters going to do about that' | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | so how do I approach something like designing codified protocols for something like ... dropping and then adding new pipettor tips? | 14:08 |
| TheEmpath | you think Earth will let people just go on Mars free market? | 14:08 |
| eudoxia | i mean, they can build some kind of orbiting laser platform thing and some Rods from God, and launch them when they decide they are independent | 14:08 |
| TheEmpath | with no way to reign them in in case they rebel? | 14:08 |
| eudoxia | absolutely not | 14:08 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you probably want to drop them into the garbage | 14:08 |
| TheEmpath | exactly | 14:08 |
| TheEmpath | they won't | 14:08 |
| TheEmpath | the technology, then, doesn't liberate mankind | 14:09 |
| TheEmpath | it just extends the chains of slavery | 14:09 |
| eudoxia | technology can't do that alone | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | the pivotal question might be " will I ever want to NOT have tips present " ... if the answer is no .. then there should simply be a "swap tip" operation versus two operations: " add tip " and "remove tip" | 14:09 |
| eudoxia | it needs people | 14:09 |
| TheEmpath | it needs rutheless people wielding the technology | 14:09 |
| eudoxia | until then, it is ethically neutral | 14:09 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you don't store tips for later | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, I'm wondering if theres some kind of related operation in programming | 14:09 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: malloc? | 14:10 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@251.sub-70-192-68.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:10 | |
| delinquentme | kanzure, right .. I just mean should I bundle the remove and new tips into a single operation | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | OMG! | 14:10 |
| TheEmpath | ethics are for… i dunno who ethics are for | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | got it :D | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: probably not, it would be better for testing to have separate operations | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | make two methods with a 3rd method which functions as a swap tips operation .. and calls the previously mentioned methods | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | agreed kanzure ? | 14:11 |
| TheEmpath | you invest in these massive technological platforms that allow for spacefaring, and you are going to want a return on your time | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | so an add tip, remove tip .. and swap tip which calls remove and add | 14:11 |
| @fenn | why would anyone live on mars once they got out of the gravity well | 14:11 |
| @fenn | that's just dumb | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | fenn: people who are studying mars would probably want to live on mars | 14:12 |
| TheEmpath | the same reason people would flee britian and live in a foreign land with angry natives and harsh weather | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | but i can't imagine that would be many people | 14:12 |
| TheEmpath | because home sucks | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: see anything worth editing? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 14:14 |
| eudoxia | kanzure i saw that earlier, let me read it | 14:14 |
| @fenn | http://www.google.com/search?q=bernal%20sphere&tbm=isch | 14:16 |
| @fenn | i think you actually need counter rotating pairs to fix the coriolis force | 14:18 |
| eudoxia | so, bernal spheres | 14:19 |
| eudoxia | anything above the lowest latitudes would basically just be windows, right? | 14:19 |
| @fenn | hm? you don't need a particularly large surface area for optics | 14:20 |
| eudoxia | a diamondoid sphere with a thin strip in normal gravity area | 14:20 |
| eudoxia | i mean because of the rotation near the poles | 14:20 |
| @fenn | er, the other coriolis force, from going around the sun. precession of the entire colony | 14:20 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@251.sub-70-192-68.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 14:22 | |
| @fenn | maybe that's the wrong word.. | 14:22 |
| -!- Zimmeri [~Zimmeri@64.235.97.82] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:22 | |
| eudoxia | i didn't know that was a thing | 14:23 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:23 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 14:23 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@151.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:24 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:24 | |
| eudoxia | oh no kanzure your declaration mentions max more | 14:24 |
| eudoxia | i thought the plan was to pretend extropianism never existed | 14:24 |
| TheEmpath | thats the basis of my critique, btw | 14:26 |
| TheEmpath | max more | 14:26 |
| eudoxia | that he's a bad philosopher? | 14:26 |
| TheEmpath | he uses "progress" as a justification eight times, and fails to explore what progress actually is | 14:26 |
| eudoxia | you know, i remember an old issue of cryonics magazine where they had merkle, more and vita-more doing this panel thing | 14:27 |
| eudoxia | jesus christ what a fucking circlejerk | 14:27 |
| TheEmpath | you show me something that is progressive, and i'll show you a thermodynamic system that hasn't balanced yet | 14:27 |
| -!- wrldpc_ [~wrldpc@8.sub-70-192-73.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:31 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@151.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 14:31 | |
| -!- wrldpc_ is now known as wrldpc | 14:31 | |
| @kanzure | no, i don't think he uses "progress" or "a thermodynamic system that hasn't balanced yet" as a justification for agency | 14:36 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: i think the proactionary principle is separate from extropianism, yes? | 14:37 |
| eudoxia | well i suppose you could separate them | 14:37 |
| eudoxia | but you should say the original PP paper appeared out of the aether | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | instead of what? | 14:38 |
| @kanzure | i mean what are you objecting to specifically, the read more link? | 14:38 |
| TheEmpath | From Max More: The Proactionary Principle stands for the proactive pursuit of progress. | 14:38 |
| eudoxia | well, I guess that's one thing. it's just that any link to extropians might make it look like we approve of any of it | 14:38 |
| eudoxia | and it sucks | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | the precautionary principle sucks even more | 14:39 |
| eudoxia | of course | 14:39 |
| TheEmpath | i dont think its an either/or scenario | 14:39 |
| TheEmpath | thats the basis of what im going to submit | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: do you think this should be removed completely, or just the link? | 14:40 |
| eudoxia | just the link | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | ah okay. | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | yeah he doesn't argue it very well does he | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | i think his biggest argument for it is simply "the precautionary prinicple doesn't take into account possible upsides", which is a reasonable thing to point out. | 14:41 |
| TheEmpath | right, and in that, he's correct | 14:41 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@8.sub-70-192-73.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 14:41 | |
| TheEmpath | and taking the dialectic position is a good start | 14:41 |
| TheEmpath | but it won't protect you in all cases | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | protect you from what ? | 14:42 |
| TheEmpath | challenges to your motiviation which will become PR coups later on | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | you lost me already | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | it's not about protecting against PR mishaps | 14:43 |
| TheEmpath | i'd say the Nazi's did a hell of a horrible PR stunt to transhumanism | 14:43 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@151.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:43 | |
| TheEmpath | you couldn't even mention the words "genetics" in America between 1946 and 1980 | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | sigh again what does this have to do with anything | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | the proactionary principle isn't a principle of PR | 14:44 |
| eudoxia | yeah seriously | 14:44 |
| eudoxia | you shouldn't even bring it up | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: maybe i'm being trolled | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: it's so hard to tell these days | 14:45 |
| eudoxia | we have enough with the "libertarian" fascist eugenicists | 14:45 |
| eudoxia | a a den otter | 14:45 |
| TheEmpath | and how are you countering them? | 14:45 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: sometimes i get the same feeling | 14:45 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: the problem is that i would feel bad if i kick out TheEmpath | 14:45 |
| TheEmpath | what the hell | 14:45 |
| eudoxia | oh he's cool | 14:46 |
| TheEmpath | no matter what your technical solution is, no matter how you manifest the technology, you will still hit the same problems | 14:47 |
| TheEmpath | how are you going to deal with power? | 14:47 |
| TheEmpath | its a discussion worth having | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | no it's not | 14:47 |
| TheEmpath | head in sand is not acceptable | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | nothing about sand here dude | 14:48 |
| eudoxia | well | 14:48 |
| eudoxia | democratic transhumanists believe we can deal with power by making governments transparent and wholly democratic | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia is channeling james hughes i think | 14:48 |
| eudoxia | with a touch of carrico | 14:49 |
| TheEmpath | thats an industrial age concept, imo | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: i'm disappointed in you. you're supposed to hate hughes/carrico and avoid them i thought. | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | maybe that was epitron and not you. | 14:50 |
| eudoxia | meh, i think it's healthy to interact with your diametral opposites, then again the guy does have a PhD in bullshitting and i'm easily influentiable | 14:50 |
| TheEmpath | yeah, i dunno about democracy and all that jazz | 14:50 |
| eudoxia | TheEmpath: well then there are anarcho-transhumanists who want to do away with power, but that's just William Gillis and... nope, that's it | 14:50 |
| TheEmpath | lol | 14:50 |
| eudoxia | it's rather sad | 14:50 |
| TheEmpath | the lack of support or the belief? | 14:50 |
| eudoxia | that it really is just william gillis | 14:51 |
| TheEmpath | that does sound sad | 14:51 |
| eudoxia | now, i'm not delusional enough to go the way of hughes, but i'm not doom paul enough to go the way gillis | 14:51 |
| TheEmpath | look, im not about applying breaks because i imagine the worse scenarios | 14:52 |
| TheEmpath | it may seem that way but thats not correct | 14:52 |
| TheEmpath | if it required the loss of 99% of the human population to achieve transhumanist goals, i'd probably be on board | 14:52 |
| eudoxia | :I | 14:52 |
| TheEmpath | in fact, there is only one aspect of human nature i really only care about it… the rest is mutable | 14:52 |
| TheEmpath | the POINT is that people like me DO exist | 14:52 |
| TheEmpath | thats the point | 14:52 |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:52 | |
| TheEmpath | and im just a very, very, very mild version of it | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | i'm sorry, that fact isn't surprising or interesting | 14:53 |
| eudoxia | yeah | 14:53 |
| TheEmpath | are you going to cater to these people, destroy them, or trick them? | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | we're going to kickban you | 14:54 |
| TheEmpath | sigh | 14:54 |
| TheEmpath | then power has beaten your cause | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | i think you just like typing things | 14:54 |
| -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:55 | |
| TheEmpath | i think you're refusal to address the issue or power is because you harbor desires for it | 14:57 |
| TheEmpath | or = of | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | i think it's because you just don't make any sense | 14:57 |
| TheEmpath | i'm very sure other observers understand what I'm saying | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | TheEmpath, you dont want power? | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | you're full of shit. | 14:58 |
| TheEmpath | do I want power? | 14:58 |
| TheEmpath | power to do WHAT? | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | you may not want to NOT have power ... but no one chooses to have no power | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | TheEmpath, power to handle whatever you think you're capable of maybe .. but thats just details | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | to say one doesn't want power is dumb | 14:59 |
| TheEmpath | Do you truly believe i am incapable of getting power at any time on my own terms whenever i want as of this moment? | 15:00 |
| TheEmpath | as if something is stopping me? | 15:00 |
| jrayhawk | pasky: I need some git help. http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/src/post-receive-announcebot.sh right now the diyhpl.us repos' post-receive scripts construct a list of commit messages from the 'oldrev newrev ref' inputs they get. It's undesirable for something like 'git push origin master:newbranch' to replay the entire history; is there some magic git way of acting only on *new* commit objects? Like, an object-upload hook ... | 15:00 |
| jrayhawk | ... equivalent? Otherwise I'm left with filesystem datestring heuristics (unreliable due to packing) or storing my own object lists and using sort -u and comm to work out what's new, which seems inefficient. | 15:00 |
| @kanzure | TheEmpath: hey can you take this to another channel with delinquentme? thanks. | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | maybe #lesswrong | 15:01 |
| -!- Proteus1 [~Proteus@97-121-78-96.omah.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] | 15:06 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-179-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:07 | |
| jrayhawk | okay so what i should do is reverse the ref update, git fsck --unreachable or dangling or something, redo the ref update, git gc, then kick myself in the head to keep from thinking too hard about what it is i just did | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | it's a flawless plan | 15:09 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, yeah he sounds like a jerkoff | 15:10 |
| @kanzure | haha does --unreachable do what i think it does | 15:11 |
| @kanzure | that's a silly way to go about it | 15:11 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@151.sub-70-192-65.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 15:11 | |
| jrayhawk | of course, it's unsafe for me to do a manual ref update, so I'll need to be recusion-safe and oh golly am i going to need a lot of head kicking | 15:12 |
| -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:13 | |
| pasky | jrayhawk: something awfully ugly tends to be used | 15:13 |
| pasky | other_branches=$(git for-each-ref --format='%(refname)' refs/heads/ | | 15:13 |
| pasky | git rev-list --pretty --stdin $revspec | 15:13 |
| pasky | grep -F -v $refname) | 15:13 |
| pasky | git rev-parse --not $other_branches | | 15:14 |
| pasky | like this in post-receive-email contrib hook | 15:14 |
| pasky | revspec is revspec=$oldrev..$newrev | 15:14 |
| pasky | (or just $newrev) | 15:14 |
| jrayhawk | ah, okay, that makes sense | 15:17 |
| jrayhawk | I hadn't realized it would be quite that practical with git porcelain to reconstruct trees like that. Badass. | 15:18 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:30 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 15:33 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: bbl] | 15:46 | |
| TheEmpath | qwatap | 15:48 |
| delinquentme | so what is the value added in software interfaces with arduinos and raspberry pis | 15:48 |
| delinquentme | also Prions | 15:49 |
| delinquentme | self-replicating proteins | 15:49 |
| delinquentme | @_@ | 15:49 |
| TheEmpath | software interfaces as in users interacting with processes running on the computers? | 15:50 |
| delinquentme | something to facilitate simple *codified* protocols into physical movements on machines | 15:52 |
| TheEmpath | modularity comes to mind. | 15:53 |
| TheEmpath | esp. when having coordinated physical movements on a single or multiple machines | 15:55 |
| TheEmpath | but thats rather obvious | 15:56 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 15:59 | |
| delinquentme | TheEmpath, that is a concern :D | 15:59 |
| delinquentme | I'm really interested in ways that I can add additional components : steppers , encoders and the like | 15:59 |
| delinquentme | without having to redesign a circuit board | 16:00 |
| -!- Charlie_ [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] | 16:00 | |
| -!- Charlie_ [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:00 | |
| delinquentme | maybe the answer is just stacking additional protoshields and something with I2c connections | 16:00 |
| delinquentme | IDK | 16:00 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@ip-64-134-96-12.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:00 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:00 | |
| TheEmpath | http://elinux.org/RPi_Expansion_Boards | 16:12 |
| TheEmpath | might have something off the shelf for your needs? | 16:13 |
| TheEmpath | lego that bitch together | 16:14 |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 16:30 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:31 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:32 | |
| -!- TheEmpath [~TheEmpath@hsrp-bgp.4over.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 16:38 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 16:43 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:45 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:08 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:12 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 17:32 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] | 17:34 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:34 | |
| -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@94-194-89-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] | 17:43 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 18:16 | |
| -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 18:17 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:41 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:41 | |
| -!- Zimmeri [~Zimmeri@64.235.97.82] has quit [] | 18:51 | |
| @kanzure | superman can type 5000 wpm :( | 18:59 |
| @kanzure | i'm boned | 18:59 |
| @kanzure | is there such a thing as a 'retry uphill' algorithm? | 19:05 |
| -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@p5B139851.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:06 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 19:10 | |
| strangewarp | ah yes, the Sisyphus algorithm | 19:17 |
| -!- ThomasEgi_ [~thomas@p5B139851.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:19 | |
| @kanzure | "SISYPHUS: algorithms for accelerating dynamics through a mixed Monte. Carlo-molecular dynamics approach" ? | 19:21 |
| strangewarp | I was making a mthology joke, apologies... | 19:33 |
| strangewarp | mythology* | 19:33 |
| * joshcryer installs humor chip in kanzure | 19:40 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@103.sub-70-192-67.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:44 | |
| -!- emancipate is now known as emancipated | 19:54 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~heisenbur@unaffiliated/qu-bit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:20 | |
| -!- emancipated is now known as emancipate | 20:28 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~heisenbur@unaffiliated/qu-bit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:09 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:12 | |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-83-116.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:43 | |
| delinquentme | does anyone get themselves tested on a regular basis for aging related biomarkers? | 21:51 |
| delinquentme | I'm guessing theres a ton of stuff which can be tested like transcendent man has | 21:51 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@103.sub-70-192-67.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 21:59 | |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@29.sub-70-192-70.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:59 | |
| @kanzure | arrrghh s3 :( | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | <RoutingRules> <RoutingRule> <Condition> <HttpErrorCodeReturnedEquals>500</HttpErrorCodeReturnedEquals> </Condition> <Redirect> <HttpRedirectCode>301</HttpRedirectCode> </Redirect> </RoutingRule> </RoutingRules> | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | win 4 | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | dfjaklsd;faj | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | saurik: does that solve your problem with the http 50x series errors? | 22:27 |
| -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 22:41 | |
| -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:41 | |
| delinquentme | should it worry me that people are asking me about things that I've actually got an educated response to? | 22:46 |
| delinquentme | like in the way that it means I'm developing a deep knowledge in something ... and well deep knowledge in java means you're a slow developer :D? | 22:47 |
| -!- Juul [~Juul@50-0-83-116.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 22:48 | |
| -!- seeker [63ec6924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.236.105.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:56 | |
| -!- seeker [63ec6924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.236.105.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 23:02 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:26 | |
| -!- barriers [~syntrope@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 23:30 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~f@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:30 | |
| saurik | kanzure: so the idea is "if I get a 500 error from the underlying S3 data store, and taht would have been returned to the user, instead give them a 301 location to the same url and hope they retry"? I feel like that would generate a "redirect loop" error, especially given the 301 instead of 302 | 23:37 |
| saurik | ah, I see that was a response from someone on HN | 23:39 |
| saurik | that would not have fixed the problem I was running into, as I was pretty much getting a 500 error from the attempt to 301 itself (which was proably specified by an automatically-generated bucket routing policy) | 23:40 |
| -!- Charlie_ [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] | 23:49 | |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:49 | |
| -!- Charlie is now known as Guest41524 | 23:49 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 23:57 | |
| --- Log closed Sat Dec 29 00:00:09 2012 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!