| --- Log opened Wed Jan 09 00:00:25 2013 | ||
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-108-45-79-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:13 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-45-79-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:31 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 00:32 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 00:33 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 00:46 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:52 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:56 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 00:56 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:00 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:12 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 01:14 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Changing host] | 01:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 01:16 | |
| -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:33 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-45-79-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:34 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:35 | |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:36 | |
| -!- Charlie is now known as Guest33685 | 01:36 | |
| -!- HEx2 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:37 | |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Undine, Burnin8, AdrianG, Guest54301 | 01:42 | |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ElixirVitae, augur, HEx1 | 01:43 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: Undine | 01:43 | |
| -!- devrandom [~devrandom@gateway/tor-sasl/niftyzero1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:47 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.126.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:50 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.126.145] has quit [Changing host] | 01:50 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:50 | |
| wrldpc | so according to Jason Pontin Microsoft's Windows 8 and Surface are disruptive. | 01:55 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:57 | |
| archels | disruptive for office productivity, right | 02:00 |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 02:21 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:30 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Changing host] | 02:30 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:30 | |
| -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [] | 03:08 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:14 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Changing host] | 03:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:15 | |
| -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:18 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 03:21 | |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 03:59 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 04:00 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:03 | |
| -!- Undine [~Undine@64.235.97.82] has quit [] | 04:08 | |
| archels | the square root of a dot product is yielding negative values. ugh | 04:19 |
| -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 04:33 | |
| -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:34 | |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-108-45-79-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:39 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:40 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-45-79-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 04:41 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:41 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:45 | |
| -!- strages_1ome [~strages@98.67.164.59] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:07 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@adsl-98-67-111-12.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:08 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 05:08 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.169.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:20 | |
| -!- strages_1ome [~strages@98.67.164.59] has quit [Read error: No route to host] | 05:20 | |
| -!- sivoais [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 06:18 | |
| -!- sivoais [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:45 | |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 07:09 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 07:15 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] | 07:48 | |
| -!- Guest84906 [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:48 | |
| -!- Guest33685 [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 07:49 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:54 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@gw-ko-kostr2.inka-online.net] has quit [Changing host] | 07:54 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:54 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:20 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.169.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 08:40 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 08:41 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.126.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:41 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.126.145] has quit [Changing host] | 08:41 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:41 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.169.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:42 | |
| @kanzure | you guys are busy being boring | 09:50 |
| chido | sorry | 09:51 |
| juri_ | gomen. | 09:52 |
| @kanzure | apology accepted, witty retort not found | 09:54 |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:55 | |
| -!- Charlie is now known as Guest65617 | 09:55 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:56 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@vredebest.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] | 09:56 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:56 | |
| -!- Guest65617 [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 09:59 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:09 | |
| -!- archbox [~archbox@unaffiliated/archbox] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 10:27 | |
| -!- upgrayeddd [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdgiwuoagjjdnjpv] has quit [] | 10:31 | |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:32 | |
| archels | UNC-CHAPEL HILL (US) — Snippets of information contained in dark matter, or “junk DNA,” can alter the way a gene gets put together, according to new research. | 10:42 |
| archels | dark matter? seriously? | 10:42 |
| @kanzure | we've run out of words, you see | 10:47 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:47 | |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@64.31.59.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:49 | |
| -!- Charlie is now known as Guest24219 | 10:49 | |
| juri_ | we've run out of words that simpletons 'understand'. | 11:37 |
| juri_ | try telling the average person on the street that dark matter and dark energy have nothing to do with each other. watch dummy mode turn on. | 11:37 |
| strangewarp | But.. those are both made by Doepfer, and designed to be used with one another | 11:43 |
| strangewarp | o:) | 11:43 |
| @kanzure | juri_: if you believe in simpletons, please don't reveal it in here | 11:47 |
| @kanzure | or something | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | oh they exist | 11:48 |
| @kanzure | i guess you also believe in idiots and geniuses | 11:48 |
| erasmus | I believe in fairies and hobbits. | 11:51 |
| strangewarp | I believe in the existence of a physical Kurzweil | 11:52 |
| chido | I believe in oxidative phosphorylation | 11:54 |
| erasmus | I believe true love waits. | 11:55 |
| jrayhawk | I want to believe. | 11:56 |
| erasmus | I believe my attic is haunted. | 11:57 |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 12:17 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.85.106] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:22 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.85.106] has quit [Changing host] | 12:22 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:22 | |
| juri_ | kanzure: i believe there are people seeking knowlege, and those who don't seek it. | 12:23 |
| juri_ | i also believe in the lack of distribution of knowledge, and that its a shame. | 12:24 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 12:48 | |
| -!- upgrayeddd [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lkxsebhppcqxhhfd] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:52 | |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:54 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:04 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:13 | |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10506576 | 13:21 |
| paperbot | error: didn't find any pdfs on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10506576 | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | well i guess that's true | 13:21 |
| joehot | i believe there are people who believe in idiots and geniuses | 13:29 |
| ThomasEgi | that'd be.. other idiots ? | 13:30 |
| joehot | it's an important distinction | 13:32 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@203.105.94.33] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] | 13:49 | |
| @kanzure | http://thingtracker.net/ yawn, yet another thing without a data format | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | eh it's just json http://thingtracker.net/specification.html | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | this says nothing about the actual cad formats | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | and the fucker uses whoisguard | 13:56 |
| @kanzure | damnit | 13:56 |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-108-45-79-253.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:16 | |
| nmz787 | what is whoisguard? | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | an evil thing that fucks up whois | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | try this: whois heybryan.org | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | now try: whois thingtracker.net | 14:34 |
| nmz787 | oh, i thought that is just called 'private registration' | 14:35 |
| nmz787 | that's what godaddy calls it i think | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | godaddy is also evil. just say nodaddy. | 14:36 |
| @kanzure | i suggest something like gandi instead | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | wow my yahoo account just got hax0red | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | which is weird because the email account was disabled | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | serbia | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | haha but they tell me "we detected a suspicious login from TX, US" but not serbia.. great. | 14:45 |
| brownies | how did they hack your yahoo account o.O ? | 14:45 |
| @kanzure | yahoo has been having some issues all week. last friday they had a major xss exploit. but a few months ago they had a huge leak. | 14:46 |
| brownies | yeah, but iirc you had to actually log in and click on shady-looking things to fall prey to the recent exploit | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | i got notified because of the spam sent from my yahoo mail account (they didn't notice that my email address was in my own address book) | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | i stopped using yahoo mail years ago when they deleted my 2001-2006 email "due to your inactivity" | 14:47 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 14:49 | |
| brownies | how thoughtful of them. | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | yeah isn't that nice? | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | what's better is that they event sent me a notice that they had deleted things | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | but they didn't send me a warning email | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | http://www.readcube.com/ seems to be an even more awful deepdyve.com competitor | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | so what happened to the idea of doing a company that subscribes to publishers, and just pools money from monthly subscription fees? | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | from its users? | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | say you do $20/user-mo over 100k users ($2M/mo).. i bet the publishers would look at your cost per user and try to charge you as much as possible. | 14:59 |
| -!- Guest84906 is now known as abetusk | 15:02 | |
| joehot | sounds like a terrible idea | 15:09 |
| joehot | anything they throw at you is multiplied by your userbase and frankly if people want subscriptions to stuff they're going to trust the real deal over a middleman | 15:10 |
| joehot | unless you find a way to offer it for cheaper (which will send dozens of lawsuits your way) nobody's going to come | 15:10 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:11 | |
| @kanzure | "For example, the University of California pays Elsevier $8.2 million each year. They sell us 34% of all the journals we get, and 27% of all the electronic content." | 15:12 |
| @kanzure | "The next biggest publishing company is Wiley-Blackwell — we pay them $5 million each year. The third is Springer — we pay them $3 million each year." | 15:12 |
| @kanzure | joehot: the real deal costs millions of dollars | 15:13 |
| @kanzure | joehot: you can't afford that | 15:13 |
| joehot | i misunderstood your premise | 15:13 |
| @kanzure | "On the other hand, the average cost per use was $0.43 for American Chemical Society journals, $1.30 for Elsevier and $2.70 for Springer–Kluwer." | 15:14 |
| joehot | how much can they charge you? is there something keeping them from just charging $1 more than your revenue | 15:14 |
| ParahSailin | does python have a function of type [(k,v)] -> Dict k v | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | yes, it's called dict() | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | dict([(k, v)]) | 15:15 |
| ParahSailin | ah, didnt realize dict() was weird and polymorphic like that | 15:16 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:18 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:19 | |
| -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 15:19 | |
| ParahSailin | does python have a concat function of type [[a]] -> [a]? | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | that sounds more like a flatten, and no i don't know of one in the stdlib | 15:21 |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:21 | |
| @kanzure | pfft "Steve Wozniak Joins DeepDyve Advisory Board" | 15:22 |
| @kanzure | "Today, scholarly publisher sites receive over 2 billion visits per year from users who are unaffiliated with an institution yet convert less than 0.2% into a purchase or a subscription." | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: please insert your complaints about http://thingtracker.net/ | 15:44 |
| nmz787 | kanzure how do i meet more people like us in portland? | 15:46 |
| jrayhawk | i like these distributed search/aggregation pub/sub things in principle, but they never seem to gain much traction :( | 15:46 |
| nmz787 | i posted a Washington County Science Club listing in Events on craigslist | 15:46 |
| jrayhawk | there's hackerspaces, student groups, and also #pdxtech | 15:46 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: go meet lichen and mokbortolan and the others | 15:46 |
| nmz787 | almost posted same to meetup, but then they wanted $$$ | 15:46 |
| @kanzure | yes, meetup is evil | 15:46 |
| @kanzure | also bioguy | 15:47 |
| nmz787 | i haven't seen any of them around here in a while | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | and Emil Mcdowell <sir.galimore@gmail.com> | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | Justin Dormandy <justin.dormandy@gmail.com> | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | Saffron Thomason | 15:48 |
| nmz787 | who are these people and what do they do? | 15:48 |
| @kanzure | mokbor <moktarino@gmail.com> | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | mostly diybio/transhumanism people | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | this guy i met through singularity university Ron Sikes <pdxsikes@gmail.com> but i'm not sure his exact specialty | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | and Nathan DiNiro <unclenate@gmail.com> wanted to do a biocurious thing in portland | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | and gabriel paparella <contact@gabrielpaparella.com> is into life extension and hackerspaces | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | oops gabriel moved to austin, my bad | 15:51 |
| nmz787 | ok | 15:52 |
| nmz787 | btw kanzure back in july you mentioned thinking you were banned from the diybio-seattle mailing list, but I think that may have just been closed down | 15:53 |
| nmz787 | should I address all these people as 'You all know kanzure' | 15:53 |
| nmz787 | ?? | 15:53 |
| @kanzure | they might possibly know me as bryan bishop | 15:54 |
| @kanzure | and they might possibly not know me at all because of my creepy stalking skills | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | who the hell is that? | 15:54 |
| @kanzure | some jerk | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | and you impersonate him? | 15:54 |
| Mariu | lol | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | :D | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | quick kanzure do your bryan bishop impersonation | 15:54 |
| @kanzure | type type type | 15:55 |
| nmz787 | so there's like one main road that travels east west, just north of the himalayas, in Tibet... how do I get google street view to hire me to collect that data | 15:57 |
| nmz787 | hmm, apparently you can get a chinese driver's license, but it's a real PITA or impossible to get a permit to drive in Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) | 16:02 |
| nmz787 | unless you're with a 'tour' that's guided (i.e. there's an itinerary) | 16:03 |
| @kanzure | going somewhere? | 16:04 |
| nmz787 | i've been studying a bunch of geography the last week or so | 16:13 |
| nmz787 | hiking around mt kailash (52km) in a day is said to wash away the sins of one's life | 16:13 |
| nmz787 | or maybe that's after 100 times around | 16:14 |
| nmz787 | but kailash is in TAR | 16:14 |
| nmz787 | and the area around it looks absolutely inhospitable | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | and if you walk counter-clockwise do you get evil superpowers? | 16:14 |
| brownies | couldn't you just hang out in a hot tub or something? that should wash away most of your sins | 16:14 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: checking | 16:15 |
| nmz787 | "Sacred to Indian Hindus and Tibetans, one is considered to gain much merit by performing an entire "kora": complete circumnabulation of the mountain. | 16:16 |
| nmz787 | Traditionally one travels in a clockwise fashion. Daniel chose to peform kora in both clockwise and anti-clockwise directions. The anti-clockwise kora is characteristic of Tibetan Bon religion which predates Buddhism by 15 000 years." | 16:16 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 16:18 | |
| nmz787 | brownies: do hot springs count? | 16:28 |
| nmz787 | also would they potentially redeposit on someone else if they were in the tub with you? | 16:28 |
| -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:29 | |
| @kanzure | where does java pull its certs from? i thought it would be /etc/ssl/certs/ but it seems this is not true. | 16:30 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i pinged you elsewhere | 16:30 |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 16:30 | |
| brownies | nmz787: sure | 16:30 |
| brownies | nmz787: i'm not familiar with the finer details of karmaphysics. perhaps you could bring some of those fish that nibble on you. | 16:31 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:31 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:31 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.85.106] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:33 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@95.5.85.106] has quit [Changing host] | 16:33 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:33 | |
| lichen | somebody namedropped me | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | nmz787 is lonely and wants to meet cool people in portland | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | s/lonely/bored | 16:42 |
| lichen | oh right, i think i chatted with him a while back | 16:42 |
| jrayhawk | i am just not man enough for him | 16:42 |
| lichen | i just got back from a chem ii lab... for some reason i was expecting this class to be hard | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i think the problem is that you require 48 hour notice before doing things, and nmz787 seems to schedule things 2 hours before leaving. | 16:42 |
| jrayhawk | actually most of the crap we do we schedule pretty shortly | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | ah. | 16:43 |
| lichen | you also in pdx? | 16:43 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 16:43 |
| lichen | cool cool | 16:44 |
| lichen | im just some weird chick who idles in here | 16:44 |
| lichen | and lives in pdx | 16:45 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:45 | |
| nmz787 | :D | 16:46 |
| nmz787 | wow kanzure somehow knows I'm bad with time | 16:46 |
| nmz787 | keep portland weird lichen | 16:47 |
| nmz787 | :P I live in Hillsboro | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | oh yeah i should make the edmonton optics bot | 16:49 |
| nmz787 | wazat? | 16:49 |
| lichen | lol doing my part nmz787 | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: just an irc bridge to their support chat thing.. | 16:50 |
| nmz787 | i wonder how many watthours my gutters/downspout would generate here | 16:50 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 16:50 |
| nmz787 | gee didn't i tell you about that? and i forgot... | 16:50 |
| nmz787 | i should bug them when you guys aren't around :D | 16:50 |
| nmz787 | "we discovered the anxiogenic properties of our new drug accidentally, while trying to fuck with labmate Steve's coffee #overlyhonestmethods" | 16:53 |
| nmz787 | this dude https://twitter.com/talyarkoni | 16:53 |
| @kanzure | "we haven't heard from our advisor in 8 months #overlyhonestmethods" | 16:53 |
| nmz787 | Practitioner of psychology, cognitive neuroscience, & informatics. Likes science. Also likes ice cream. Not necessarily in that order. | 16:53 |
| nmz787 | Boulder, Colorado http://talyarkoni.org/blog | 16:53 |
| nmz787 | I wonder if he slips things in a lot of peoples drinks | 16:54 |
| @kanzure | why do i not have a $JAVA_HOME how does this work | 17:03 |
| @kanzure | "peer not authenticated" hrmm | 17:10 |
| lichen | nmz787: wasnt it you that was talking about gluten stuff | 17:22 |
| @kanzure | oh great, so java only support tls1 and not ssl3? | 17:32 |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@78.162.45.49] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:33 | |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@78.162.45.49] has quit [Changing host] | 17:33 | |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:33 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 17:34 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:58 | |
| -!- aristarchus [~aristarch@unaffiliated/aristarchus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 18:09 | |
| jrayhawk | lichen: I/fenn/nmz787 mention it from time to time, probably me the most | 18:11 |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 18:11 | |
| lichen | ah | 18:12 |
| lichen | was going to say i tried it and it didnt help me at all | 18:12 |
| lichen | but cutting aspirin out seems to have fixed me | 18:12 |
| lichen | tried a gluten-free diet, i mean | 18:12 |
| @fenn | i've been doing gluten free for the past two weeks and i haven't noticed any improvement either. oh well | 18:13 |
| lichen | admittedly there should be no reason cutting gluten would help me | 18:14 |
| jrayhawk | Gluten-free isn't particularly significant unless you have a specific active immune response to gliadin. The more global response is to prolamines found in essentially all grains and legumes. | 18:14 |
| lichen | from everything ive read, gluten has no links to ulcerative colitis, which is what i have | 18:14 |
| lichen | figured id give it a try anyways because why not | 18:14 |
| lichen | it hadnt occured to me until recently that the small amount of aspirin i took daily to prevent clotting might be an issue (as nsaids are well known for aggravating ulcers) | 18:15 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: what bout random inflammatory reactions due to LPS coming through the intestinal wall? | 18:15 |
| jrayhawk | Sure, lots of crazy shit happens when you're permeable | 18:15 |
| lichen | given that my problems are ultimately linked to autoimmune problems i gave gluten a try | 18:17 |
| lichen | er, no-gluten | 18:17 |
| lichen | gluten free really isnt that hard once youre in the habit | 18:17 |
| jrayhawk | You really need to remove all grains and legumes. They all have prolamines that set off CXCR3 and cause zonulin release. | 18:19 |
| brownies | what's so bad about legumes? | 18:19 |
| brownies | do lentils fall into this category too? | 18:19 |
| jrayhawk | Yes. | 18:19 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/search?q=paleo+OR+gaps+OR+scd+OR+%22raw+food%22+AND+%22ulcerative+colitis%22+AND+testimonial | 18:20 |
| jrayhawk | http://chriskresser.com/pioneering-researcher-alessio-fasano-m-d-on-gluten-autoimmunity-leaky-gut for more on the mechanism. | 18:20 |
| brownies | hmph. but i like breads and things. | 18:20 |
| @kanzure | because they are toxins and delicious. | 18:20 |
| jrayhawk | Well, have fun with those, then. | 18:21 |
| brownies | what i lack is grain-and-legume-free recipes that are properly matched to my laziness level | 18:21 |
| lichen | ill give those articles a look | 18:22 |
| brownies | i guess i should just hire a chef at this point. | 18:22 |
| @kanzure | i think jrayhawk runs a mail-order food service | 18:22 |
| lichen | ive pretty much gotten rid of my symptoms by taking nicotine and cutting aspirin out | 18:22 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 18:22 |
| @kanzure | he just puts raw bones into baggies and ships them out weekly | 18:22 |
| lichen | anyone know much about the long term effects of nicotine on its own? | 18:23 |
| lichen | as in, not in tobacco | 18:23 |
| brownies | haha | 18:24 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:25 | |
| @fenn | lichen: similar to long term use of corticosteroids i bet | 18:25 |
| @fenn | except it's addictive too, yay! | 18:26 |
| lichen | well | 18:26 |
| lichen | yeah | 18:26 |
| lichen | i figured id rather take nicotine than immunosuppressants and steroids | 18:27 |
| brownies | how do you take nicotine? | 18:27 |
| joehot | nicorette | 18:27 |
| lichen | nah | 18:27 |
| lichen | i use an e-cig | 18:27 |
| lichen | nicotine suspended in oil, then atomized | 18:28 |
| lichen | cheaper/easier than using gum or patches | 18:28 |
| @fenn | the gum would be less addictive with the same immune effects | 18:28 |
| lichen | why? | 18:28 |
| @fenn | slower onset | 18:28 |
| lichen | ah | 18:28 |
| lichen | well, ive been using this for two years now | 18:28 |
| lichen | any addiction is there | 18:29 |
| lichen | havent ever tried stopping because having horrible colonic pain is not high on my list of priorities | 18:29 |
| @fenn | wow nicotine does like a zillion things | 18:29 |
| jrayhawk | it's pretty innocuous stuff toxicologically | 18:29 |
| lichen | good to hear | 18:29 |
| @fenn | "stimulates the release of many chemical messengers such as acetylcholine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, vasopressin, histamine, arginine, serotonin, dopamine, autocrine agents, and beta-endorphin." | 18:30 |
| lichen | im mostly concerned about long-term circulatory problems | 18:30 |
| lichen | or anything else significant im not aware of | 18:30 |
| jrayhawk | it causes some vasoconstriction | 18:30 |
| lichen | and thats also why i was taking daily aspirin, to counteract thrombosis risk, but aspirin was just making things worse | 18:30 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, NSAIDs are pretty nasty | 18:31 |
| lichen | im now using piracetam again | 18:31 |
| lichen | which also has anti-clotting effect | 18:31 |
| lichen | in addition to the nootropic effects | 18:31 |
| @fenn | i'm guessing it works because the adrenaline prevents formation of inflammatory prostaglandins (and any other prostaglandins) similar to how aspirin works | 18:32 |
| @fenn | it = nicotine | 18:32 |
| lichen | the explanation i gleaned from online was that nicotine increases mucous secretion in the colon | 18:33 |
| lichen | which helps buffer damage | 18:33 |
| @fenn | i'd add fish oil and magnesium citrate to your daily regimen | 18:35 |
| @fenn | also make sure to eat foods high in potassium; avocado and banana are good | 18:37 |
| @fenn | any leafy green really | 18:37 |
| lichen | my diet is currently a lot of stir frys, lots of rice, rice noodles, potatoes, spinach, mushroom, tofu | 18:38 |
| lichen | vegetable proteins | 18:38 |
| lichen | peppers, egg, lots of yerba mate | 18:38 |
| @fenn | there ain't no such thing as vegetable protein :P | 18:38 |
| lichen | its uh | 18:38 |
| lichen | whatever you want to call the veggie crumble stuff | 18:39 |
| lichen | meat substitute things | 18:39 |
| @fenn | oh, TVP | 18:39 |
| @fenn | ah i was right, "an excess of ACTH causes Cushing's syndrome" | 18:40 |
| lichen | theres no good term for that food category | 18:40 |
| lichen | hmm? | 18:40 |
| @fenn | nicotine -> adrenaline -> acth -> cushing's | 18:40 |
| @fenn | it's the typical "stressed businessman" look | 18:41 |
| lichen | idk what that means | 18:41 |
| lichen | ill look up cushing | 18:41 |
| lichen | tumor in the pituitary gland | 18:42 |
| lichen | wait no | 18:43 |
| lichen | thats just the normal cause of excess acth | 18:43 |
| lichen | yeah im not gaining any weight | 18:43 |
| @fenn | anyway i don't think nicotine alone will cause cushing's | 18:43 |
| lichen | i havent really be able to gain any weight ever | 18:43 |
| lichen | Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[74] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[75]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes can | 18:45 |
| @fenn | i wouldnt worry abou the growth promoter stuff | 18:48 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, "calories" are also promote tumor growth. | 18:48 |
| lichen | ah | 18:51 |
| lichen | im not really at risk of anything right now but i want to know if what im doing now will bite me in the future | 18:52 |
| -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:55 | |
| -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:56 | |
| delinquentme | http://www.longecity.org/forum/blog/90/entry-580-fundraiser-success/ ?? | 19:12 |
| delinquentme | what are they doing with $800 dollars? | 19:12 |
| -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:12 | |
| @kanzure | they run various fundraisers for small projects like "collect & eat some soil samples" | 19:13 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@103-9-42-1.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 19:15 | |
| @fenn | i thought the mouse/C60 replication study was worthwhile | 19:16 |
| @fenn | oh, and that's what the fundraiser was for, cool | 19:16 |
| @fenn | they only raised $167 :( | 19:18 |
| delinquentme | fenn, the post says its complete? | 19:20 |
| @kanzure | we had that french guy in here (AgeVivo?) a few weeks ago doing his own mouse/C60 work | 19:22 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: i think the $800 is to buy C60, as it's hard to get in small quantities | 19:24 |
| delinquentme | I didn't think these guys actually do stuff | 19:25 |
| delinquentme | its awesome to see | 19:25 |
| @fenn | yes it would be nice if this sort of double blind randomized distributed experiment could be done with all the nootropics people are taking | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: so now that your location is semi-stable, can we order parts or what | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | fenn: "BUT I FEEL GOOD!!" | 19:27 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@203.105.94.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:27 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 19:30 | |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.49] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:30 | |
| -!- archbox [~archbox@unaffiliated/archbox] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:31 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 19:35 | |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: do you have any references on prolamins and cxcr3 or zonulin? | 19:35 |
| -!- panax [panax@131.247.116.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 19:35 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:36 | |
| @fenn | specifically non-gluten non-gliadin prolamins | 19:37 |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 19:40 | |
| -!- panax [~panax@68.200.160.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:43 | |
| nmz787 | yes lichen i've beengetting lots of good info from jrayhawk | 19:46 |
| lichen | cool | 19:46 |
| nmz787 | very little of it is pur bloggery | 19:46 |
| lichen | im watching a talk on nutrition from a biochem perspective he linked me | 19:46 |
| nmz787 | i don't think i will 'feel' paleo kick in tho | 19:46 |
| lichen | interesting stuff | 19:46 |
| nmz787 | i can eat grain and beans like a champ | 19:46 |
| lichen | feel what? | 19:46 |
| nmz787 | but my father and his father both had heart problems | 19:47 |
| jrayhawk | hey that peter attia thing was a blog | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | attacks | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | so if i don't get a heart attack i'll thank jrayhawk even if I dont know if paleo helps | 19:47 |
| lichen | paleo is what? | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | because from my own opinion i think it's pretty significant | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | paleo is no grain, no pseudo grain, no legumes | 19:48 |
| nmz787 | they also say no milk | 19:48 |
| brownies | what's a pseudo-grain? | 19:48 |
| nmz787 | but i like milk a lot | 19:48 |
| nmz787 | and so do all the billions of hindus | 19:48 |
| lichen | i avoid milk already lol | 19:48 |
| nmz787 | like amaranth or quinoia | 19:48 |
| nmz787 | maybe amaranth is a real grain | 19:48 |
| lichen | whats your main source of carbs in that type of diet? | 19:49 |
| jrayhawk | roots, tubers | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | " | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | A Paleolithic diet is a modern dietary regimen based on foods | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | presumably eaten regularly during the Paleolithic, which includes lean | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | meat, fish, shellfish, fruits, vegetables, roots, eggs and nuts, but | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | not grains, dairy products, salt or refined fats and sugar, which | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | became staple foods long after the appearance of fully modern humans. | 19:49 |
| lichen | mmm, potatoes | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | " | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | " | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | In a randomized cross-over study, 13 patients with type 2 diabetes, 3 | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | women and 10 men, were instructed to eat a Paleolithic diet based on | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | lean meat, fish, fruits, vegetables, root vegetables, eggs and nuts; | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | and a Diabetes diet designed in accordance with dietary guidelines | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | during two consecutive 3-month periods. Outcome variables included | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | changes in weight, waist circumference, serum lipids, C-reactive | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | protein, blood pressure, glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c), and areas under | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | the curve for plasma glucose and plasma insulin in the 75 g oral | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | glucose tolerance test. Dietary intake was evaluated by use of 4-day | 19:49 |
| brownies | why so few? why not 1300 patients? | 19:49 |
| -!- wrldpc [~wrldpc@203.105.94.33] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] | 19:49 | |
| nmz787 | weighed food records. | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | " | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | Beneficial effects of a Paleolithic diet on cardiovascular risk | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | factors in type 2 diabetes: a randomized cross-over pilot study | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | Tommy Jnsson, Yvonne Granfeldt, Bo Ahrn, Ulla-Carin Branell, Gunvor | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | Plsson, Anita Hansson, Margareta Sderstrm, and Staffan Lindeberg | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724493/ | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | sorry i should have put that in pastebin i guess | 19:50 |
| @kanzure | i think today is the day i introduce nmz787 to pastebin | 19:50 |
| lichen | lol | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | brownies: ask jrayhawk | 19:50 |
| @fenn | the url and a short desription would have sufficed | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | i think he may follow the authors lineage of work | 19:50 |
| brownies | nmz787: can you paste the entire paper in here | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | sure | 19:51 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724493/ | 19:51 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 501 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724493/ (battle station not fully operational) | 19:51 |
| lichen | so the advantage in that is assuming that cutting those out is good because of the short span those foods have been in the human diet to be adapted to? | 19:51 |
| brownies | preferably line by painstaking line | 19:51 |
| nmz787 | gimme a sec | 19:51 |
| @fenn | no salt? | 19:51 |
| nmz787 | :DDDDD | 19:51 |
| nmz787 | i guess eat salty fish? | 19:51 |
| lichen | paleo diet sounds pretty expensive | 19:51 |
| lichen | maybe if i saw a guide it wouldnt | 19:51 |
| lichen | but like | 19:51 |
| lichen | fruit, nuts, and meat isnt really that cheap | 19:51 |
| jrayhawk | Well, there's a strict empiricism-and-biochemistry approach and a observational paradigm approach that mostly arrive in the same place; in general i don't like to advocate for the observational paradigm | 19:52 |
| brownies | eggs and vegetables would suffice | 19:52 |
| nmz787 | expensive diet is cheap insurance | 19:52 |
| lichen | fair enough | 19:52 |
| @fenn | by "observational" you mean based on paleontology/anthropology? | 19:52 |
| jrayhawk | I also don't like to advocate specifically for Paleo since the GAPS and SCD communities have the same success with different paradigms. | 19:53 |
| brownies | SCD = slow carb diet? GAPS = ? | 19:53 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah; "our ancestors didn't eat these things and didn't have all these modern diseases, therefor we should do the same." | 19:53 |
| jrayhawk | specific carbohydrate diet | 19:53 |
| @fenn | specific carbohydrate diet; gut and psychology sy(stem)? | 19:54 |
| brownies | oh heh | 19:54 |
| @fenn | "syndrome" just doesn't make sense as a name for a protocol | 19:54 |
| @kanzure | hmm google scholar is using googleusercontent.com as a cache | 19:55 |
| @fenn | i can't figure out what they're saying anyway | 19:55 |
| jrayhawk | well, it was supposed to tie together a giant pile of brain disorders with a common etiology of intestinal permeability, so it's a diet that is also advocating a unified pathology | 19:55 |
| jrayhawk | which is still confusing, but at least explicable | 19:56 |
| @fenn | but WHAT IS THE DIET | 19:56 |
| @kanzure | it was linked here just a day ago | 19:57 |
| jrayhawk | http://gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html for interventions, http://gapsdiet.com/The_Diet.html for maintenance | 19:57 |
| lichen | presuming everyone reads everything linked in here | 19:57 |
| lichen | i dont think ive looked in here for months tbh | 19:57 |
| lichen | "microwaves destroy food" | 20:01 |
| lichen | im not sure how much of this is bullshit | 20:01 |
| lichen | so little to back up what theyre saying | 20:01 |
| @fenn | it just doesn't match any sort of pattern i can see.. it just sounds like someone's arbitrary idea of what's healthy | 20:02 |
| @fenn | pretty much the only thing i can see is "no wheat, no sugar" | 20:03 |
| lichen | and eat fucking all the meat broth | 20:03 |
| lichen | thats all i see | 20:03 |
| lichen | them rambling about meat stock | 20:03 |
| jrayhawk | paperbot: http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(89)91996-X | 20:03 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 501 http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(89)91996-X (battle station not fully operational) | 20:03 |
| jrayhawk | bah | 20:03 |
| @fenn | no abstract? | 20:04 |
| nmz787 | "Cellulose in supplements" | 20:04 |
| nmz787 | lol | 20:04 |
| Mariu | that sounds like the Death Star | 20:05 |
| Mariu | lol | 20:05 |
| @kanzure | 501 means that there's no zotero translator for the target site | 20:05 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/zotero/translators | 20:05 |
| @fenn | the lancet article "is not a formal peer-reviewed article, but is just a short letter to the editor" | 20:05 |
| @fenn | "The authors microwaved milk, and found that one of the proteins changed shape from L-proline to D-proline. This was a worry because D-proline, in large concentrations, is toxic to the kidney and liver. This letter was followed-up by health authorities around the world. The overall finding was that this was not relevant to home heating of milk, because the scientists had exposed the milk to much | 20:07 |
| @fenn | great levels of microwaves than are used in the home." | 20:07 |
| @fenn | really, that experiment hasn't been replicated? | 20:07 |
| jrayhawk | the estrogenic activity always seemed more worrying to me, but they don't even mention that | 20:08 |
| jrayhawk | but anyway, yes, GAPS is hyper-paranoid about everything | 20:09 |
| jrayhawk | it is a scorched-earth diet | 20:09 |
| @fenn | estrogenic activity of what? | 20:09 |
| jrayhawk | plastics upon exposure to microwaves | 20:10 |
| jrayhawk | or possibly just heat | 20:10 |
| @fenn | oh, right. nobody cooks things on the stove in saran wrap | 20:10 |
| lichen | i dont exactly worry about phytoestrogens | 20:11 |
| lichen | dont have a great reason to unlike you all | 20:11 |
| lichen | though ive heard that there is danger that phytoestrogens will outcompete endogenous estrogens but not activate the receptors as strongly | 20:12 |
| jrayhawk | Not really true; estrogen is a liver toxin and pretty badly screws with normal menstrual timing | 20:12 |
| lichen | which is bad for women too | 20:12 |
| jrayhawk | I mean, xenoestrogens mess with normal menstrual timing | 20:12 |
| @fenn | ah jesus christ nothing is what it seems. "However, today's Saran Wrap is no longer composed of PVDC due to environmental concerns with halogenated materials, and is now made from ordinary polyethylene." | 20:12 |
| lichen | i really doubt that the phytoestrogens of soy are enough to induce that kind of liver toxicity | 20:12 |
| jrayhawk | obviously the estrogen/progesterone cycle is natural and (usually) desirable | 20:12 |
| jrayhawk | Everything has an oxidative and inflammatory cost. | 20:13 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert/studies-showing-adverse-effects-of-isoflavones http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert/studies-showing-adverse-effects-of-soy haha hot damn those WAPF folks are patient researchers | 20:21 |
| lichen | so basically replace tofu with tempe in my diet | 20:23 |
| lichen | lol... im amused that soy is the worst part of my diet | 20:24 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert/myths-and-truths-about-soy is a more approachable summary | 20:24 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:25 | |
| nmz787 | but don't paleo ppl say no milk | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067368991996X | 20:26 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 501 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067368991996X (battle station not fully operational) | 20:26 |
| lichen | >Japanese housewives feed tofu to their husbands frequently when they want to reduce his virility. | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | and i did a bunch of RF and other EM research on bio stuff last spring and i didn't find anything substantial | 20:27 |
| lichen | great paper here, haha | 20:27 |
| nmz787 | the only thing was rotation | 20:27 |
| nmz787 | occurres | 20:27 |
| jrayhawk | "paleo" is not so much a diet as a field of thought; most of the prominent spokesmen treat milk as a potential pathology rather than an inherent one. Only Cordain was particularly vociferous about it. | 20:29 |
| -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@94-194-89-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:29 | |
| panax | i just realized today my soy sauce has sodium benzoate in it | 20:33 |
| @fenn | hm i didn't know about trypsin inhibitors | 20:34 |
| @fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunitz_STI_protease_inhibitor i guess this is why TVP makes you fart | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | crap, i can't rememeber my UMB password or library 'barcode' | 20:38 |
| nmz787 | so i can't see if that lancet article is available | 20:39 |
| jrayhawk | well, we sorta know its contents | 20:39 |
| @fenn | it sounded pretty wonky and the lack of replication sort of seals the deal | 20:39 |
| @fenn | i mean if microwaves really did change isomerization of amino acids, don't you think someone would have published a real paper about it? | 20:40 |
| @fenn | on the contrary we have "Evidence for the absence of amino acid isomerization in microwave-heated milk" http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00010a034 | 20:41 |
| -!- barriers [~barriers@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:42 | |
| nmz787 | kanzure: we can definitely buy parts, but fenn never finished that CAD and as a result I've been thinking more about DLP projector + microscope lithography... using a camera in the optical path for rough alignment then just move the image more finely on the DLP chip in a non-reactive color, before exposing the aligned image | 20:42 |
| -!- Jaakko96 [~Jaakko@94-194-89-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] | 20:42 | |
| jrayhawk | "microwave infant" -> "Airway burns in an infant following aspiration of microwave-heated tea" | 20:46 |
| jrayhawk | note to self: do not abbreviate searches of that nature | 20:46 |
| Thorbinator1 | lol | 20:47 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/2012/03/31/with-the-wave-of-a-wand-raw-milk-wipes-away-the-wheeze-how-our-good-friend-glutathione-protects-against-asthma/ http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/2010/09/11/the-biochemical-magic-of-raw-milk-and-other-raw-foods-glutathione/ has some anti-heating stuff | 20:51 |
| jrayhawk | but obviously not microwave-specific | 20:52 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00010a034 | 21:01 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00010a034 | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | grr. this one requires frames. | 21:02 |
| @fenn | http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/138/11/2172 so does this one, in a bad bad way | 21:11 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/138/11/2172 | 21:11 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 501 http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/138/11/2172 (battle station not fully operational) | 21:11 |
| @kanzure | guh. | 21:11 |
| @fenn | do i have to say "paperbot:"? | 21:11 |
| @kanzure | paperbot hides error messages when you don't use the nick explicitly | 21:12 |
| @kanzure | additionally, it can't parse a url next to text at the moment | 21:12 |
| @fenn | oh. somebody should fix that :P | 21:12 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/blob/master/modules/papers.py | 21:12 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 21:14 | |
| @kanzure | fenn: you just volunteered | 21:17 |
| @fenn | kanzure: i know you know regular expressions, what's all this startswith crap | 21:24 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:27 | |
| @kanzure | i have no excuse | 21:27 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:29 | |
| @fenn | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1782728 | 21:31 |
| paperbot | error: didn't find any pdfs on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1782728 | 21:31 |
| @kanzure | that's because ncbi doesn't link to pdfs | 21:31 |
| @kanzure | i mean pubmed | 21:31 |
| @kanzure | we should probably just make it take a pubmed link and find a pdf via google scholar | 21:31 |
| @fenn | well that would explain why i didnt see any link to the actual paper | 21:32 |
| @fenn | i can't believe anyone puts up with this | 21:33 |
| @kanzure | pretty awful huh | 21:33 |
| @fenn | 1991 isn't that long ago | 21:34 |
| delinquentme | outlined in the December edition of Scientific American | 21:34 |
| delinquentme | anyone happen to have a copy of this research ... specifically the one on using fat cells to revert into MSC ? | 21:35 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: be more specific | 21:36 |
| @fenn | who are the authors, what's the title of the paper, where did they do the research, etc | 21:36 |
| delinquentme | https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stem-cell-cosmetics | 21:39 |
| @fenn | i'm not going to read the article for you | 21:39 |
| delinquentme | its mentioned here. and I can tell you it was published in Scientifi American in december 2012 | 21:39 |
| @fenn | so it's one of these articles? http://www.scientificamerican.com/sciammag/?contents=2012-12 | 21:41 |
| @fenn | i don't see anything about stem cells | 21:41 |
| delinquentme | yeah me neither.... | 21:42 |
| delinquentme | http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-grow-retina-from-stem-cells wonder if thsi is it | 21:43 |
| -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:44 | |
| delinquentme | "The initial procedure, outlined in the December edition of Scientific American, used stem cells extracted from her own abdominal fat through liposuction and injected those cells back into her face." | 21:45 |
| yashgaroth | yeah they're not reverting the cells, just harvesting | 21:46 |
| @kanzure | 09:03 < delinquentme> How do mesenchymal stem cells from fat? | 21:47 |
| delinquentme | =P yeah | 21:47 |
| @kanzure | 11:07 <@kanzure> delinquentme: probably the same way you convert any other cell into stem cells, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/stem-cells/ | 21:47 |
| yashgaroth | no one's using induced stem cells therapeutically for anything, I hope | 21:48 |
| @kanzure | 11:10 < yashgaroth> fat tissue is rich in mesenchymals, and you won't miss it | 21:48 |
| yashgaroth | yep there we go | 21:48 |
| delinquentme | oh | 21:48 |
| @kanzure | we're just on a repeat loop at this point | 21:48 |
| delinquentme | so wait I've got latent stem cells sitting in my gut fat | 21:48 |
| yashgaroth | they're everywhere | 21:49 |
| delinquentme | and if they're exposed to partocular calcium | 21:49 |
| yashgaroth | and they're not latent | 21:49 |
| delinquentme | they'll differentiate? | 21:49 |
| yashgaroth | not sure where calcium comes in | 21:49 |
| delinquentme | in the article they say that exposure to calcium caused the formation of the bone fragment in the ladys eye | 21:49 |
| delinquentme | it was part of a botox filler or something | 21:49 |
| @fenn | in the article they say the woman who had stem cells injected into her face also had "dermal filler" injected, which is primarily composed of calcium hydroxyapatite | 21:49 |
| yashgaroth | heh well sure anything's possible | 21:50 |
| delinquentme | so theres no reverse engineering going on there huh? | 21:50 |
| delinquentme | its just sucking fat and piping it elsewhere? | 21:50 |
| yashgaroth | separating the stem cells from the fat first | 21:51 |
| yashgaroth | and then hoping that stem cells are all basically the same, I guess | 21:51 |
| yashgaroth | I don't delve into stem cells much because it's exponentially more black-magic than PCR even | 21:52 |
| delinquentme | PCR is black magic? | 21:52 |
| delinquentme | O_o;;; | 21:52 |
| yashgaroth | you haven't been in a lab, seen the shrines set up next to the thermocyclers? | 21:53 |
| yashgaroth | but at least PCR probably won't become a teratoma | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | anyway delinquentme what you were reading was about a thing called a 'stem cell face lift' | 21:54 |
| @kanzure | here's one of the guys selling the procedure http://www.stem-cell-lift.com/ | 21:54 |
| @kanzure | http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/13/health/la-he-skeptic-stem-cell-facelift-20100913 | 21:54 |
| @fenn | " isolate and grow the customer's mesenchymal stem cells ... Half these cells are frozen for storage; from the other half, technicians harvest hundreds of different kinds of exuded growth factors and cytokines" | 21:54 |
| @fenn | hundreds i say! | 21:55 |
| yashgaroth | it's technically legal, but only when they don't modify the cells, so I doubt they intentionally expose the MSCs to any factors on purpose | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | "Dr. Richard Ellenbogen charges $15,000 to $25,000." well that sounds like the clinic she probably went to, so there's your answer. | 21:55 |
| delinquentme | thats a huge chunk of cash | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | "Dr. Richard Ellenbogen, a plastic surgeon who also practices in Beverly Hills, says that stem cell face-lifts are a booming business. "I've been performing about one every other day," he says." | 21:56 |
| delinquentme | and its outside / above / loopholed around the FDA | 21:56 |
| yashgaroth | you should see what burzynski charges | 21:56 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, do you know this person? | 21:56 |
| @kanzure | $20k isn't that much in the scheme of things | 21:56 |
| yashgaroth | not sure who you mean, but none of the people mentioned no | 21:56 |
| @kanzure | haha what "Ellenbogen's procedure is similar, although he says he uses a low-level laser to "activate" the stem cells before he injects them into the skin." | 21:57 |
| delinquentme | im asking on the yashgaroth> you should see what burzynski charge | 21:57 |
| yashgaroth | yeah he's a quack who uses some bullshit to scam cancer patients out of hundreds of Gs | 21:57 |
| @kanzure | nice | 21:57 |
| yashgaroth | I know *of* him | 21:57 |
| yashgaroth | kanzure: you gotta throw some wonk in there, lasers are admittedly a classic choice | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | yes, very sciencey | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | "now we will go to the super technical stem cell activator apparatus.. i call it a laser." | 21:58 |
| juri_ | 'laser activated!' | 21:59 |
| yashgaroth | now, the laser activates the DNA through quantum interactions that | 21:59 |
| juri_ | like you'd expect to read on a cleaning product. | 21:59 |
| @kanzure | sure maybe the laser damages the dna and the stem cells turn into tumors | 21:59 |
| delinquentme | it would indeed keep the skin nice and tight | 22:00 |
| yashgaroth | teratomas are more viscerally horrifying, though "this is your stem cell. this is your stem cell on pseudoscience [balls of teeth and hair growing inside someone's abdomen]" | 22:00 |
| @kanzure | my only regret is not having invented the stem cell facelift myself. | 22:01 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, so to your knowledge no one is clinically using reverted stem cells? | 22:01 |
| delinquentme | I mean I've not heard of anyone | 22:02 |
| yashgaroth | maybe in china somewhere, but probably/hopefully not | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | just call them up and ask. say you have a huge budget. | 22:02 |
| delinquentme | I thought this was actually reverting ... hence why I was tripping out | 22:02 |
| delinquentme | lol | 22:02 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: it says in the article the FDA has approved bone marrow stem cell transplant for leukemia | 22:02 |
| @fenn | there are many trials currently underway | 22:02 |
| yashgaroth | nope, there's some clinic in colorado I remember reading about, they pull out adult stem cells and shoot them back in to paralyzed people's spines | 22:02 |
| delinquentme | " yes I would like a horn. yes a genuine facial bony protrusion. Yes a unicorn. " | 22:03 |
| yashgaroth | and it's apparently legal since it's their own tissue | 22:03 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: that's not quite how tumors work | 22:03 |
| @fenn | what about jackalopes | 22:03 |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 22:03 | |
| yashgaroth | fenn: that procedure's been around for a while, iirc it has a 50% mortality rate | 22:03 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, not bad! | 22:03 |
| yashgaroth | and then there was the corollary story about some guy with HIV and leukemia doing that and getting cured, since his donor was a ccr5 mutant | 22:04 |
| @fenn | yashgaroth: the high mortality is because they also nuke the existing immune system? | 22:04 |
| yashgaroth | cured of both, I should say | 22:04 |
| yashgaroth | yes, pretty much | 22:04 |
| yashgaroth | but compared to dying of leukemia, it's not a bad deal | 22:04 |
| @fenn | i think i'll take not dying | 22:05 |
| @fenn | ah here's what i was thinking about as for horns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shope_papilloma_virus | 22:06 |
| Viper168 | don't knock it till you've tried it | 22:06 |
| yashgaroth | it also nukes the red blood cell supply, not sure which is the more dangerous part | 22:06 |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@78.162.45.49] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:06 | |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@78.162.45.49] has quit [Changing host] | 22:06 | |
| -!- Simurg [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:06 | |
| @fenn | but the existing red blood cells should be fine | 22:07 |
| @fenn | i'd expect radiation induced anemia to be treatable, at least in the short term | 22:07 |
| yashgaroth | sure but they don't have a very long half-life, same with platelets and all that | 22:08 |
| yashgaroth | it's probably due mostly to the effect of massive chemo and radiation, yeah | 22:08 |
| @fenn | 50 days? surely that's long enough for the transplanted stem cells to get a foothold | 22:09 |
| yashgaroth | in a body that's as close to death as medically possible | 22:10 |
| -!- sylph_mako [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 22:15 | |
| delinquentme | awesome | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | mailing myself dis info | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | well.. time to watch the world burn | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/rapid7/metasploit-framework/pull/1282.diff | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you patched your rails servers, right? | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | yarth | 22:17 |
| @kanzure | the railsapocalpyse | 22:18 |
| @fenn | wow this looks like hollywood code | 22:20 |
| @fenn | "'; (eval(%[#{code}].unpack(%[m0])[0]); @e=true) unless @e #':" +" !ruby/object:OpenStruct\n table:\n :defaults: {}\n" | 22:20 |
| yashgaroth | watch it, you'll crash freenode | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | yeah, it's a yaml code injection vulnerability for all versions of rails 2.x and 3.x | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | so basically all of silicon valley | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | because rails by default parses incoming xml requests | 22:21 |
| @fenn | so don't use the internet for a week | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | i had to go through my list of projects i've worked on and upgrade some old customers/clients | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | because apparently nobody else called them and told them about this | 22:22 |
| @fenn | you are too kind | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | yes. | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | oh shit i forgot one | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | eh i guess there's nothing valuable on there | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | also this one was hilarious.. http://stephensclafani.com/2013/01/09/vulnerabilities-in-heroku/ | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: btw you should also consider asking around in #reprap for pdx people | 22:27 |
| @kanzure | https://gist.github.com/4499206 "Proof-of-Concept exploit for Rails Remote Code Execution (CVE-2013-0156)" | 22:28 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 22:30 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:33 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@pool-71-182-199-191.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 22:38 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:56 | |
| -!- AdrienG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:12 | |
| -!- AdrianG [~dextro@unaffiliated/amphetamine] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:15 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Jan 10 00:00:26 2013 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!