| --- Log opened Tue Jan 29 00:00:13 2013 | ||
| --- Day changed Tue Jan 29 2013 | ||
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| kanzure | eleitl: know anyone at the German Organ Transplantation Foundation? | 00:20 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | or eurotransplant | 00:20 |
| kanzure | i've been thinking that europe might be sufficiently dense to make a bitcoin-based organ selling operation actually work | 00:21 |
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| brownies | can you people 3d print organs yet? | 00:30 |
| kanzure | we can 3d print vascularized tissue, somewhat. | 00:30 |
| kanzure | organs are for quitters, real men just steal other people's organs for profit | 00:30 |
| kanzure | i haven't been able to figure out if livers based on a plastic scaffold are going to appear first or if fully printed livers will happen first | 00:31 |
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| brownies | what's the difference? | 00:31 |
| brownies | is a plastic scaffold liver usable as a regular liver? | 00:32 |
| kanzure | nobody knows yet | 00:32 |
| kanzure | or, i mean, nobody has tested a plastic scaffold liver yet because the cells don't live that long in vitro | 00:32 |
| kanzure | s/vitro/vivo | 00:33 |
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| kanzure | i expect that the first tests will either be animal implantation or organ perfusion chambers designed to mimic the environment inside the human body | 00:34 |
| brownies | right | 00:36 |
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| kanzure | actually, that might be an interesting test. if a fake organ performs just as well as a real organ inside such a chamber, then you shouldn't be able to tell from measurements in a blind study. | 01:07 |
| kanzure | oh hm. blue brain got $1 billion, not $500 million? | 01:24 |
| kanzure | "Further funding will depend on whether they reach certain milestones within the first 30 months, but over a decade it could total €1 billion ($1.34 million) each." | 01:25 |
| kanzure | million? | 01:25 |
| joehot | million | 01:26 |
| kanzure | but what happened to billion? | 01:27 |
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| archels | 10^9 euro | 01:35 |
| kanzure | archels: better send in your application now, yo | 01:35 |
| archels | yah I don't really know the process by which this huge sum is going to percolate down to actual research groups | 01:36 |
| kanzure | well, henry will be leading up the attack so i imagine it will be controlled from EPFL | 01:36 |
| kanzure | there are some names attached to the proposal document so check which labs those guys operate (other than just henry's) | 01:37 |
| archels | most likely, but lots of people are going to be looking over his shoulder. | 01:37 |
| archels | my professor is the head of the Human Brain Project in NL, I should probably have a chat with him :) | 01:37 |
| kanzure | ah, i'm glad i have a mole in the human brain project | 01:38 |
| kanzure | you will leak me a brain if the emulation works, right? | 01:38 |
| kanzure | ... right? :( | 01:39 |
| archels | for on the supercomputer in your garage? absolutely | 01:39 |
| archels | can't keep this sort of thing locked up in a cage, that would be immoral | 01:39 |
| kanzure | what do you know about my garage supercomputer | 01:40 |
| kanzure | who told you | 01:40 |
| archels | oh I just assumed based on you being in this channel | 01:41 |
| archels | everyone here has that, right? | 01:41 |
| kanzure | no, a few people in here are shameful enough to just pay for ec2 time | 01:41 |
| archels | making do with homebrew FPGA processors, I could see, but EC2? tsk | 01:42 |
| kanzure | homebrew asics. FPGAs are much harder to make. | 01:43 |
| archels | well, off-the-shelf FPGA hardware, custom firmware. | 01:44 |
| archels | (firmware is probably not the right word) | 01:44 |
| archels | well, companies like Xilinx seem to call it that, but it feels inadequate | 01:47 |
| archels | paperbot: http://jn.physiology.org/content/early/2012/11/02/jn.00648.2012.long | 02:06 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20neuro-mechanical%20model%20for%20the%20neural%20basis%20of%20curve%20walking%20in%20the%20stick%20insect.pdf | 02:06 |
| kanzure | "1944 kolff version of the kidney dialysis machine" http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PB5-El7se4s/SZX0NFK4n1I/AAAAAAAANjw/0H1OzjbU3bA/s1600/kolff+1944+dialysis.jpg | 02:08 |
| kanzure | that doesn't look like the drum i see on http://homedialysis.org/types/museum | 02:13 |
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| kanzure | "The Jarvik - 7 is a device that is still used today and is claimed to have the highest success rate of any mechanical heart or assist device in the world." | 02:29 |
| kanzure | "Since 1982, more than 350 patients have used the Jarvik 7 heart, and it remains in use today - called the CardioWest total artificial heart as Ownership has changed hands several times, but the device design remains essentially unchanged." | 02:29 |
| kanzure | wait.. what? only 350 patients? | 02:29 |
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| kanzure | " SynCardia claims there are more than 1000 implants of the Total Artificial Heart, accounting for more than 270 patient years of life on this device" | 02:36 |
| kanzure | "According to SynCardia, the longest a patient has been supported with the Total Artificial Heart is 1,374 days (nearly four years) before he received a successful heart transplant." | 02:37 |
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| * archels wonders if he should use the term 'cybernetics' in communication with srsbiz neuroscientists | 03:20 | |
| kanzure | if you want, we could "peer review" your email before you send it | 03:21 |
| kanzure | we could peer review all over it. | 03:22 |
| archels | O_o | 03:24 |
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| brownies | i... uh... don't think that's how you use that word | 03:30 |
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| kanzure | brownies: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=peer+review | 04:17 |
| kanzure | "Man, I had to have my essay peer reviewed today and that fucker wrote on my paper that I have a strong thesis" | 04:18 |
| kanzure | brownies: i seem to be having some caching problems, can you tell me what numbers you see under the calendar? https://github.com/kanzure | 04:21 |
| kanzure | and/or what words are spelled out on the calendar | 04:21 |
| Coornail | almost an 'E' | 04:28 |
| eudoxia | ^ | 04:32 |
| kanzure | bonus points to anyone who can figure out what i was trying to write. | 04:34 |
| kanzure | this deal expires the moment it starts rendering correctly on github. | 04:34 |
| eudoxia | h+? | 04:36 |
| kanzure | -_- | 04:36 |
| eudoxia | a k? | 04:36 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: hint, try looking at the data to figure it out. | 04:37 |
| kanzure | instead of embarrassing yourself :) | 04:38 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: this might help save you a few minutes of coding https://github.com/kanzure/streak/blob/teapot/streak.py | 04:43 |
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| * kanzure sleeps | 05:07 | |
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| eleitl | fuck this rocket surgery shit | 06:33 |
| eudoxia | ? | 06:33 |
| eleitl | trying to reimport vmware guests from an nfs | 06:33 |
| eleitl | share | 06:33 |
| eleitl | vmware going fully amnesiac retard on me | 06:34 |
| eleitl | and of course windows wants to be activated, natch | 06:34 |
| juri_ | ok. wow. | 06:35 |
| juri_ | done with my crazy EMR project. | 06:35 |
| eleitl | describe it, so that we can celebrate, too | 06:36 |
| juri_ | 20,000 lines of patch. | 06:36 |
| eleitl | open source? | 06:36 |
| juri_ | we added credentialing, emergency form filing, unassigned appointment filing, made the system no longer pop up any windows.. | 06:37 |
| juri_ | of course. | 06:37 |
| juri_ | OpenEMR. | 06:37 |
| juri_ | https://gitorious.org/~elishy/openemr/elishys-openemr | 06:37 |
| juri_ | master on that tree is 15,000 lines different from mainline. | 06:37 |
| eleitl | Congratulations! | 06:38 |
| eleitl | How long did it take? | 06:38 |
| juri_ | added documentation to many pages.. droped other dead pages, removed some standing security risks.. | 06:38 |
| juri_ | 5 weeks. | 06:38 |
| eleitl | sounds like a lot of work, and it's even in PHP(?) | 06:38 |
| juri_ | yepyep. | 06:38 |
| eleitl | you poor bastard... | 06:38 |
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| juri_ | a lot of complicated javascript, as well. | 06:39 |
| juri_ | my personal favorites are the scheduling changes (schedule an event without deciding who takes it at scheduling time), emergency event logging, and the javascript routine that from one frame (yes, it still uses frames), injects jquery and fancybox into another frame, then uses fancybox in that frame to pop up a dialog. | 06:40 |
| eleitl | does the change have to be certified, to be fit for medical applications? | 06:41 |
| eleitl | this virtual network thing is not a fad | 06:46 |
| juri_ | nope. | 06:47 |
| juri_ | no certification process. | 06:47 |
| eleitl | that sounds easy | 06:47 |
| juri_ | however, now i need to break it into little pieces, and get it comitted. | 06:47 |
| eleitl | no actual people get hurt? | 06:48 |
| juri_ | we've done a good job making the software better here, so it should result in better running medical offices. | 06:48 |
| eleitl | there's a reason medical facilities require certification | 06:50 |
| eleitl | any bug could cause a major regression | 06:50 |
| juri_ | the software they run is certified. we just make it better. | 06:50 |
| eleitl | ok, so somebody takes your changes, and tests and certifies that. No problem there. | 06:50 |
| juri_ | thats not quite how the certification process works. | 06:51 |
| juri_ | our changes will not get a test for certification. the ONC does not require that. | 06:51 |
| eleitl | How does it work? | 06:51 |
| juri_ | they require regular baseline certifications of the program as a whole, but that does not effect adding new features, or closing security bugs. | 06:51 |
| eleitl | No idea how things are done down here. | 06:52 |
| eleitl | we're actually going to do medicine in our group, it's just our clients won't be able to complain | 06:52 |
| eleitl | nobody in the dewar has sued anyone for malpractice, yet | 06:53 |
| eleitl | which, of course, doesn't absolve one from the need to do things properly | 06:53 |
| juri_ | OpenEMR has been certified for use up here, and is used all over the place. it serves as a good baseline. | 06:54 |
| juri_ | I'm glad to have this project done. i've already got an image recognition project to complete for a banking company in the pipeline... | 06:55 |
| eleitl | who's paying for your work? | 06:55 |
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| juri_ | elitl: i'm subcontracting, so i don't know the 'actual' customer. | 08:35 |
| eleitl | But you do get paid, it's not volunteer work? | 08:37 |
| juri_ | its a little bit from category A, a lot from category B. i got paid for 1 week of work, but worked 5, to do a good job of it. | 08:45 |
| brownies | kanzure: haha | 09:08 |
| brownies | kanzure: still see 4780 days there | 09:08 |
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| archels | Telomerase Reverse Transcriptase Synergizes with Calorie Restriction to Increase Health Span and Extend Mouse Longevity | 09:12 |
| archels | paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0053760 | 09:12 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Telomerase%20Reverse%20Transcriptase%20Synergizes%20with%20Calorie%20Restriction%20to%20Increase%20Health%20Span%20and%20Extend%20Mouse%20Longevity.pdf | 09:12 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: hi | 09:16 |
| chris_99 | hey, oh the other day i was gonna ask if you'd noticed any longish image sensors around 8cm on your travels, but managed to find one on Mouser for £30 | 09:20 |
| chris_99 | :) | 09:20 |
| archels | Are there any efforts underway to just breed mice for longevity, and see how far you can go? | 09:26 |
| nmz787 | ahh, the long one | 09:27 |
| nmz787 | ahh the long one's I've seen come out of flatbed scanners, chris_99 | 09:27 |
| chris_99 | yeah the problem is i think they're hard to get hold of | 09:28 |
| chris_99 | i contacted a company about that and they where charging $100 | 09:28 |
| chris_99 | for a CIS one | 09:28 |
| chris_99 | not even a CCD one | 09:28 |
| nmz787 | huh, I think I've seen then for around $30 or $40 USD | 09:53 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: http://www.toshiba.com/taec/Catalog/Line.do?lineid=900041&familyid=900039 | 09:53 |
| chris_99 | i couldn't seem to find the sensor lengths on that page, or am i being very dumb | 09:54 |
| chris_99 | also is there a mainstream site like Mouser/Farnell/Digisomething that sells them | 09:56 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: $14 but only 5.5cm http://www.eureca.de/pdf/optoelectronic/sony/ILX553A.PDF | 09:56 |
| nmz787 | that's a commonly used one | 09:57 |
| chris_99 | http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ams/TSL208R/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMunxn%2f4XiYBQjMStQ7%2faj6jpnSvRJ2RwP0%3d is what i found | 09:57 |
| chris_99 | ~8.8cm | 09:57 |
| nmz787 | no but you can get a feel based on pixel size and num pixels | 09:57 |
| chris_99 | true | 09:58 |
| chris_99 | i couldn't seem to find anyone that sold the toshiba ones really though | 09:58 |
| nmz787 | is that high enough DPI, sensitivity, etc? | 09:58 |
| chris_99 | yeah plenty high enough DPI | 09:59 |
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| nmz787 | because the TAOS chips are gonna be a lot easier to work with than a CCD like the toshiba or sonys i linked to | 09:59 |
| chris_99 | mm | 10:00 |
| chris_99 | i'm planning on sticking a light on top of the hydrometer now and using that to pick it up | 10:01 |
| nmz787 | to sense the level? | 10:01 |
| chris_99 | yup | 10:01 |
| archels | there has to be an easier way to make a level sensor | 10:09 |
| chris_99 | any other sensors that could be used? | 10:09 |
| archels | what are your requirements? | 10:10 |
| archels | there are quite a few ways to measure fluid level, most of them simpler than using a CCD strip | 10:10 |
| chris_99 | it's to measure specific gravity | 10:11 |
| chris_99 | from a hydrometer | 10:11 |
| chris_99 | not just a fluid level per se | 10:11 |
| archels | so there's a float, the one-dimensional position of which has to be measured | 10:12 |
| chris_99 | mm | 10:12 |
| archels | is there any need for isolation because of the chemicals involved? | 10:12 |
| chris_99 | nope | 10:12 |
| chris_99 | just beer :) | 10:12 |
| archels | the easiest approach would be to attach the float to a potentiometer | 10:13 |
| chris_99 | ThomasEgi mentioned that | 10:13 |
| chris_99 | there isn't enough force from the hydrometer | 10:13 |
| chris_99 | for that to work though | 10:13 |
| archels | well, you have to make a lever. If the force is small, make the pot only rotate a few degrees | 10:15 |
| archels | and/or get a better pot | 10:15 |
| archels | otherwise, you can make a simple linear optical encoder from an old inkjet printer | 10:16 |
| chris_99 | that wouldn't be as precise though as using an imaging sensor | 10:16 |
| archels | well, with an image sensor you need to keep stuff aligned pretty well for it to stay in focus | 10:17 |
| archels | and you need an appropriate light source and optics | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | true, i don't think i need any fancy optics though, i was planning on aligning the top of the hydrometer in a tube with the LED pushed up to the sensor | 10:19 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: this just uses 2 LEDs http://moab.eecs.wsu.edu/~pedrow/classes/ee415/Fall_2005/Refereed%20Papers/paper1_garnet.pdf | 10:20 |
| nmz787 | ahh that's liquid level though, not a stick's level | 10:20 |
| nmz787 | have you considered buying a magnet strip and using a hall effect sensor? | 10:21 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, hall effects /magnetometers was in discussion. | 10:23 |
| ThomasEgi | personally. i still favor the ac-coil with the magnetic field picked up by other coils. | 10:23 |
| chris_99 | nmz787, http://openhydrometer.com/about | 10:23 |
| chris_99 | that's the current idea | 10:23 |
| ThomasEgi | hm.. another idea... wolud be to use an optical encoding on the hydrometer | 10:24 |
| chris_99 | not precise enough imo | 10:25 |
| nmz787 | like reflective patches? | 10:25 |
| nmz787 | and just count ticks like the magnet strip? | 10:25 |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, i wouldnt say that it's not precise enough | 10:25 |
| ThomasEgi | optical encoding can get you μm precision | 10:25 |
| chris_99 | well you'd have to make them tiny for it to work | 10:25 |
| chris_99 | which would need an image sensor of v. high dpi | 10:25 |
| ThomasEgi | nope. no need for a high dpi sensor :) | 10:26 |
| ThomasEgi | you just have to add a mask in front of it | 10:26 |
| chris_99 | huh? | 10:26 |
| chris_99 | not heard of that, how's that work | 10:26 |
| ThomasEgi | so you have like.. 2 line patterns | 10:26 |
| ThomasEgi | which shift over each other | 10:26 |
| chris_99 | hmm interesting | 10:26 |
| ThomasEgi | resulting in a triangular brightness change | 10:26 |
| ThomasEgi | it's a relative messurement. very precise tho. you need ocassional marks for absolute positioning. | 10:27 |
| nmz787 | I think he means something like this, with one or two pixels instead of a camera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured-light_3D_scanner | 10:27 |
| ThomasEgi | but those can easily be done with like optical endstops or so | 10:27 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, nope. | 10:27 |
| nmz787 | and instead of the pattern generated by a projector, it's just printed on the hydrometer? | 10:27 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, different principle | 10:28 |
| chris_99 | what's the one you're talking about called, ThomasEgi | 10:28 |
| ThomasEgi | i'm searching for the correct name already | 10:28 |
| chris_99 | aha cheers | 10:29 |
| archels | oh man you guys are overengineering the hell out of this | 10:29 |
| nmz787 | all you need is a flux capacitor chris_99 | 10:29 |
| chris_99 | haha | 10:29 |
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| nmz787 | 3D scanning would work too though ;) | 10:31 |
| nmz787 | heh heh | 10:31 |
| chris_99 | lol | 10:32 |
| nmz787 | so you don't want to use a refractometer because it will get dirty and be hard to clean? | 10:32 |
| nmz787 | that seems like it would be cheap, and you'd need less CCD pixels | 10:32 |
| nmz787 | you might also be able to do it through the glass | 10:33 |
| chris_99 | a couple of reasons, not esp. accurate for beer apparently, and also in-place ones are expensive | 10:33 |
| ThomasEgi | i can't really find the name for it. i'd have to work through my university stuff to find it. | 10:33 |
| chris_99 | no worries | 10:33 |
| ThomasEgi | but.. once more. i highly recommend to go with that coil approaches , messuring AC voltage | 10:33 |
| nmz787 | i'd just place a red laser on the opposite side of the glass carboy, across from the CCD, then refraction should move the spot up or down the CCD | 10:34 |
| nmz787 | i think that might work | 10:34 |
| ThomasEgi | it's rather robust. not depending on optics, so it works in a dirty and wet environment. relatively simple and cheap | 10:34 |
| chris_99 | just thinking if i did that ThomasEgi i could use those tiny sealed inductors | 10:35 |
| chris_99 | couldnt i | 10:35 |
| ThomasEgi | ... you could if you change the geometric arrangement | 10:36 |
| ThomasEgi | i'd pretty much have one coil inside a set of other coils. | 10:36 |
| ThomasEgi | arranged on one axis | 10:36 |
| chris_99 | i was thinking you meant lots of coils on the hydrometer and then a hall effect on the float | 10:36 |
| ThomasEgi | nope. | 10:36 |
| ThomasEgi | you basically wind a thin wire around the hydrometer. and turn it into a coil this way | 10:37 |
| ThomasEgi | then you put a tube, wind wire around it in like 8 sections (they may overlap, just make sure each has the same winding count). | 10:37 |
| ThomasEgi | and you put that over the dryrometer, mounted to the float. | 10:37 |
| ThomasEgi | then you connect a capacitor in series with the hydrometer coil, feed a rectangular signal to it (from a microcontroller) that matches the resonance frequency of the LC circuit | 10:39 |
| ThomasEgi | the rest is just adding a few diodes to rectify each of the float-coils outputs , buffer that with a small capacitor, maybe voltage divide down to to a save microcontroller-voltage level. and ADC your results | 10:39 |
| ThomasEgi | will result in like 8 adc results, building the weighted average you can easily calculate the position of your float. | 10:40 |
| chris_99 | very interesting, so the hydrometer becomes an electromagnet right and you're sensing it's position using these 8 coils around the cylinder? | 10:40 |
| ThomasEgi | exactly | 10:40 |
| ThomasEgi | and since it is an alternating magnetic field. you can pick the signal up with simple and cheap coils, instead of magnetometers | 10:41 |
| chris_99 | and it'll resonate perfectly as it where if its exactly aligned to the coils, and when it moves it'll generate a different signal | 10:41 |
| ThomasEgi | it's dirt cheap, pretty robust, reasonably simple/difficult. and with a bit of tuning i'm pretty sure it'll be accurate enough,too | 10:41 |
| ThomasEgi | the receiver coils won't resonate | 10:42 |
| ThomasEgi | they just pick up the field change and convert it into a voltage for you. | 10:42 |
| chris_99 | ok that makes sense | 10:42 |
| chris_99 | so it's sort of calculating the difference from a perfect waveform right? | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | nope. | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | the waveform gets rectified. | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | so the result is like a signle analog value for each pickup coil | 10:43 |
| chris_99 | oh right | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | it'll probably look a bit like a gauss-curve or so , if you draw it with the 8 points | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | all you have to do is find the peak-point of that. | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | but that's a mathematically simple operation | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | even if you have only 8 points. the weighted mean will turn out nicely | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | in worst case. you'll have to apply some linearisation-correction at the end of it. but that's easy to do,too. | 10:45 |
| ThomasEgi | the only thing that mihgt be a bit tricky without a scope is to get the resonance frequency set right. but, with some tricks, that's not half as difficult | 10:46 |
| chris_99 | i do have a scope actually | 10:47 |
| ThomasEgi | even better then. | 10:47 |
| ThomasEgi | but in yuor case. you could controll the frequency by the μC. and just ramp throught the frequency range once. messuring the voltages on the pickup coils. and then use the frequency where it maxed | 10:48 |
| ThomasEgi | as long as you protect the microcontrollers ADC pins from overvoltage, there's very little that could go wrong | 10:48 |
| ThomasEgi | wrong as is, ruining your day. | 10:49 |
| chris_99 | mm sounds a very clever idea | 10:49 |
| ThomasEgi | yeah. the only thing that might be even easier. would be to use a triangulation sensor. given you can find one for the distance you want. | 10:50 |
| ThomasEgi | but then, it's optical again and i have no idea how well that'll work out if there's foam and stuff around | 10:50 |
| ThomasEgi | i'd go with the coils | 10:50 |
| chris_99 | this site's got some cool stuff http://www.disensors.com/products.aspx?id=21 | 11:02 |
| chris_99 | i bet they're not cheap though | 11:02 |
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| hifrog | ~ | 12:02 |
| hifrog | paperbot help | 12:03 |
| hifrog | !paperbot | 12:03 |
| hifrog | no?... hmm | 12:03 |
| chris_99 | you do paperbot: url i think | 12:04 |
| hifrog | paperbot: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6118/440 | 12:04 |
| paperbot | SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 632, in send) | 12:04 |
| kanzure | https is not supported | 12:05 |
| hifrog | paperbot: 10.1126/science.1226018 | 12:05 |
| hifrog | oh hehe | 12:05 |
| hifrog | paperbot: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6118/440 | 12:05 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/To%20Favor%20Survival%20Under%20Food%20Shortage%2C%20the%20Brain%20Disables%20Costly%20Memory.pdf | 12:05 |
| kanzure | .botsnack 3 | 12:05 |
| yoleaux | :D | 12:05 |
| kanzure | (positive reinforcement) | 12:05 |
| hifrog | <3 | 12:05 |
| kanzure | nmz787: the backlash in the home dialysis thread is hilarious | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: weird for sure | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | http://www.frontiersin.org/Microbiotechnology,_Ecotoxicology_and_Bioremediation/10.3389/fmicb.2013.00005/full | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | Preparing synthetic biology for the world | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | Gerd H. G. Moe-Behrens1, Rene Davis2 and Karmella A. Haynes | 12:09 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.frontiersin.org/Microbiotechnology,_Ecotoxicology_and_Bioremediation/10.3389/fmicb.2013.00005/full | 12:09 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Preparing%20synthetic%20biology%20for%20the%20world.pdf | 12:10 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: would you be willing to write the scripts to auto-recompile paperbot when someone pushes to the translators.git repository? i didn't do it when we were talking about it last time. :( | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | that article links to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQjF8ir4SKs | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | .title | 12:11 |
| yoleaux | compound74 - YouTube | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | which lists jake wintermute as a story writer | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | and thanks pam silver's lab | 12:11 |
| kanzure | pam silver.. why do i know this name. is she igem related? | 12:11 |
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| nmz787 | harvard prof | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | jake and she worked on the "Harvard scientists to make LSD factory from microbes" | 12:12 |
| kanzure | so basically every 15 year old's dream? | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | i guess older people might dream about that too | 12:12 |
| chris_99 | how similar is ergot to LSD | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | video is OK | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: it's a building block of LSD | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | well, ergot is a fungus | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | ergotamine is what they use | 12:13 |
| chris_99 | LSD was the first chemically synthesised drug or something wasn't it or is that my imagination | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | someone should ripoff pokemon and call it synbio | 12:15 |
| kanzure | i'm on it | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | heroin probably happened earlier | 12:15 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/pokemon-prism | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | depends on what you mean by synthesized | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | they used a natural product as a builiding block | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | just as heroin uses | 12:15 |
| chris_99 | yeah heroin is easier i bet to make | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | and aspirin | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | h and asp are just acetylation if i recall correctly | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | LSD manufacturing is quite skilled isn't it? | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | i think so | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | LSA is natural also | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | LSD is just the addition of two ethyls | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | but I think they're damn hard ethyls to get on | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | I actually don't know | 12:17 |
| chris_99 | i wish i knew more about chemistry but i always found it very confusing | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | it's not much different than e-fields or magnetic field concepts | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | opposites attract, likes repel | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | but the system is all linked and inducts all around | 12:18 |
| chris_99 | mm i see what you mean | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | err, the system for a single molecule is coupled, and multiple molecules can act in each other, but really big molecules can fold on themselves and do both | 12:20 |
| nmz787 | act on each other* | 12:20 |
| nmz787 | so that's why DNA programming isn't just like text | 12:20 |
| nmz787 | it's more like demoScene coding | 12:20 |
| chris_99 | heh | 12:20 |
| nmz787 | http://awards.scene.org/awards.php?year=2011 | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | wait, download is 45 megs | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | is this not what I want? | 12:21 |
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| nmz787 | i think kanzure linked to some good ones a while back | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | that were just .js | 12:23 |
| chris_99 | mm i think i remember those | 12:23 |
| chris_99 | hmm theres some weird stuff in there 9.1M Apr 21 2011 Lightwave.dll | 12:25 |
| chris_99 | alas doesn't work in wine | 12:25 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: is there a way to track down this chinese dialysis machine guy? | 12:26 |
| nmz787 | i searched his name, but it might be better to use chinese characters | 12:28 |
| nmz787 | i guess we might have to get his original video translated, if we could find it | 12:28 |
| juri_ | I have someone who can help with chinese translation. | 12:29 |
| juri_ | (depending which chinese, of course) | 12:29 |
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| nmz787 | is there a way to add a linkback between two pages? | 12:36 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: yes it's called a hyperlink | 12:42 |
| kanzure | nmz787: the javascript demoscene stuff you're thinking of might be http://possan.se/junk/webglass/index.html | 12:43 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: do you remember the name/email of the asian guy on diybio who has dr. in his name and i think is from canada, he might be a lawyer or comments a lot on law topics | 12:51 |
| nmz787 | i thought it was dr lau | 12:51 |
| kanzure | nmz787: Lawrence Lau <drlawrencelau@gmail.com> | 12:56 |
| kanzure | "After an extended discussion with Thomson, they assured me that common acronyms like JCAP and JHEP are indeed properly mapped to the journal title/abbreviation." | 12:59 |
| kanzure | " I reexamined my data and reached a new and frightening conclusion: it is getting increasingly difficult for Thomson (and I assume all citation database producers) to properly parse, identify, and link cited references for electronic journals that, more and more, are abandoning issue dates, volumes, issue numbers, and pagination." | 12:59 |
| kanzure | "In some cases, such information can be found at the journal site, but with considerable effort. As a result, I believe authors are compiling reference lists using various elements in all sorts of formats (leading zeros, article numbers reported as pagination, etc., a real mess)." | 12:59 |
| kanzure | "This new conclusion was confirmed in email correspondence with Thomson. To their credit, they are continuing to work on their parsing, capture, and linking algorithms." | 12:59 |
| kanzure | database drift to OCR and people using OCR results :) | 13:01 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i'll grab the bionet archives. i suppose i should also grab the mems-talk archives while i'm at it. | 13:06 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: their server is pretty slow. this seems like these were originally usenet archives? | 13:08 |
| kanzure | "Only about 10-20% of the 2.5 million articles published annually in the world's 24,000 peer-reviewed are being self-archived today" (bionet/jrnlnote, 2004) | 13:15 |
| kanzure | (he meant "in the world's 24,000 peer-reviewed journals") | 13:15 |
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| kanzure | heh a 1991 email about transcranial magnetic stimulation http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1991-August/011005.html | 14:09 |
| kanzure | "head and neck. In the experiment I was in the experimenters were | 14:10 |
| kanzure | trying to stimulate the visual cortex to produce phosphenes. They were | 14:10 |
| kanzure | very faint, but definitely there" | 14:10 |
| nmz787 | neat! | 14:12 |
| nmz787 | I'm not sure if they were usenet or always on that bio.indiana.edu server | 14:13 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2006.05584.x/abstract | 14:16 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3e5b73c72c0546bf1e970cf61a1b77c2.txt | 14:16 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2006.05584.x/asset/j.1365-2958.2006.05584.x.pdf | 14:16 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8d4a00fbad516ff2077a398470ffa3e3.txt | 14:17 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: that first link should work | 14:17 |
| nmz787 | access-permission-wise | 14:18 |
| kanzure | ">Or are they simply organisms used for airplanes | 14:22 |
| kanzure | >testing? If so, what for exactly?" | 14:22 |
| kanzure | "The molds listed by ATCC are used in standard methods for testing various | 14:22 |
| kanzure | materials for resistance to deterioration by fungi. For details see, for | 14:22 |
| kanzure | example, the military standard MIL-STD-810D Method 508.3. This was issued | 14:22 |
| kanzure | July 19, 1983, there may be more recent versions. This standard describes | 14:22 |
| kanzure | the testing methods and some of the reasoning behind them." | 14:22 |
| kanzure | hehe "$4 to $8 per base is not uncommon" in 1992 http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1992-April/000843.html | 14:36 |
| kanzure | heh "science is not magic" "For the 'kit scientists', science *is* magic." http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1992-July/000282.html | 14:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1992-July/000279.html | 14:40 |
| kanzure | "In my estimation the problem with the "kit" mentality is that it leads to stagnancy in the development of methods. If you don't understand the basis of what you are doing, how can you troubleshoot, and how can you improve the method. As a previous poster has said, it makes science appear to be agic." | 14:40 |
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| kanzure | *magic | 14:48 |
| kanzure | el cheapo power supply ($10) for pulse field electrophoresis http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1997-September/060887.html | 14:51 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold | 15:26 |
| kanzure | "Patrick Arnold is an American organic chemist known for introducing androstenedione, 1-Androstenediol, and methylhexanamine into the dietary supplement market, and for creating the designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone, also known as THG and "the clear".[1]" | 15:26 |
| kanzure | "THG, along with two other anabolic steroids that Patrick Arnold manufactured (norbolethone and desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT), were drugs at the heart of the BALCO professional sports doping scandal.[2] At the time of their creation, they were not on any banned substance list. BALCO distributed these worldwide to world class athletes from a wide variety of sports ranging from track and field to professional baseball and football." | 15:26 |
| kanzure | "Arnold who is also an amateur bodybuilder, initially gained notoriety as "the Father of Prohormones."[4]" | 15:27 |
| kanzure | "Arnold was sentenced to three months in prison at Federal Correctional Institution, Morgantown in West Virginia for his role in the BALCO incident.[1]" | 15:27 |
| kanzure | http://patrickarnoldblog.com/homemade-steroids-making-users-sick/ | 15:28 |
| kanzure | ok i like this guy | 15:28 |
| kanzure | "Patrick currently produces products for the nutritional supplement company E-pharm Nutrition, as well as for Prototype Nutrition. He continues to be perhaps the number one driving force in the advancement of performance enhancing nutritional supplementation" | 15:29 |
| kanzure | "Little did people realize though that part of the credit for McGuire’s amazing year was owed to chemist Patrick Arnold and his incredible new product androstenedione (a.k.a.Andro) which McGuire used to help him smash 70 homers that season." | 15:30 |
| nmz787 | nice | 15:32 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: are you going to post that cheapo power supply? i think john griessen would be interested | 15:33 |
| kanzure | nmz787: no, i decided that i did not want to post it because there were no details available. | 15:34 |
| kanzure | you're welcome to, but since there are no details i don't entirely see the point. | 15:34 |
| nmz787 | it only uses one part | 15:36 |
| nmz787 | which is listed | 15:36 |
| kanzure | maybe i didn't read closely enough. it sounded like there was some circuit involved with multiple parts that were non-disclosed. but i could be wrong. | 15:37 |
| nmz787 | nah it | 15:37 |
| nmz787 | it's just a 'bridge diode' using AC mains voltage | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | actually I guess I won't post it | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | I believe we've talked about using a dimmer switch before | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | which I think is the same thing | 15:38 |
| kanzure | go ahead and post it anyway, it's useful. | 15:38 |
| kanzure | i checked my email archives to see if anyone has mentioned patrick arnold to me before, and all i got was this (which i just sent to diybio): | 15:39 |
| kanzure | https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/diybio/_nfom6eIrJA | 15:39 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: invite him here :P | 15:40 |
| kanzure | "A week after Arnold took his first dose of liquid mestanolone, his life began to change. At the gym, he was on fire. ... Arnold focused his efforts on a patent he came across while flipping through chemical abstracts. It came from an East German pharmaceutical company called Jenapharm, which produced most of the steroidal compounds used in the former communist nation’s athletic doping program." | 15:45 |
| kanzure | interesting that the german government contracted out all of their steroid procurement to a company. | 15:45 |
| nmz787 | guess they're all about efficiency! | 15:46 |
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| nmz787 | "In attempting to synthesize crystal meth, these do-it-yourselfers have caused a rash of trailer park explosions and often unwittingly produce a drug coated with toxins like hydroiodic acid. The best way to remove those noxious byproducts is by washing the drug in alcohol using a Bchner funnel, a specialized lab vacuum. But most kitchen chemists have never even heard of it. When this final purification step is skipped, the toxins eat away at the user | 15:47 |
| nmz787 | I didn't know 'meth mouth' wasn't caused by methamphetamine smoke itself... | 15:47 |
| kanzure | "Just as Arnold suspected, norbolethone was so obscure that professional doping programs had no reference sample and thus could not detect it." | 15:48 |
| kanzure | "It was a brash entrepreneur named Victor Conte who pushed the limits of that obscurity. He ran a sports-nutrition center in Burlingame, California, called the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO). Through BALCO, Conte sold legal zinc-magnesium supplements of questionable efficacy and enlisted topflight athletes to promote them. Among them were true superstars: Marion Jones, ... Barry Bonds, ..." | 15:49 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Laboratory_Co-operative | 15:52 |
| kanzure | huh. they only served <2 years in prison for selling steroids. | 15:53 |
| kanzure | heh he communicated by usenet: | 15:56 |
| kanzure | https://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=mXlCmxIAAADUU-vZ8NL2cxDLZ4x5KpW48rhlH0Pnl47z4AZhN98BFg&hl=en | 15:56 |
| kanzure | patrick arnold: https://groups.google.com/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=cvMkqhYAAAALb6sk9UTqGUNKf42inB2nlgUpxsgrFUYz4iGseXwOPQ | 15:57 |
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| nmz787 | nothing recent huh | 16:08 |
| kanzure | i heard about him from reading the comments here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5136254 | 16:11 |
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| kanzure | "(especially with the ability to export SWF to JS with easel.js)" well that sounds terrifying | 16:44 |
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| kanzure | dwayne_: hello | 17:17 |
| dwayne_ | hello | 17:17 |
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| Guest62567 | http://www.jstor.org/stable/40188579 | 17:24 |
| Guest62567 | test sorry | 17:24 |
| Guest62567 | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/stable/40188579 | 17:24 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5671a1dc192d203b65c396e15c0b85aa.txt | 17:24 |
| Guest62567 | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/40188579.pdf | 17:25 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/43b57384bf3d7b254dd444730db79f6b.txt | 17:25 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: do you know a place i could ask to identify an IC? | 19:53 |
| kanzure | do you already have it decapped? | 19:54 |
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| nmz787 | it has a part number on it | 19:55 |
| nmz787 | but it's not googling | 19:55 |
| nmz787 | and i don't know the symbol on it | 19:56 |
| kanzure | ah you mean.. visual inspection. | 19:56 |
| kanzure | well, first i would try ##electronics | 19:56 |
| kanzure | then i would try piclist | 19:56 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, got a picture and whatever's printed on top of it? | 19:58 |
| ThomasEgi | and where did you find the part (in what device, if any) ? | 19:58 |
| ThomasEgi | my connection might timeout soon. | 19:59 |
| kanzure | also it's possible that octopart or digikey will know the part number even if google does not. | 19:59 |
| ThomasEgi | alldatasheet.com would be another place to search | 20:00 |
| kanzure | isn't that a spam site | 20:00 |
| ThomasEgi | haha. nope. | 20:00 |
| ThomasEgi | it's pretty good recource for finding datasheets | 20:00 |
| ThomasEgi | millions of datasheets there | 20:01 |
| ThomasEgi | excellent recource. also has many older parts that are no longer listed on any online store sites. and from companies that are already out of business | 20:01 |
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| nmz787 | i think it's just a temp overload fuse | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | thermal protection, and i figured out that it must be working | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | since it's on the main AC incoming | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | thanks though | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | it's in this Hybaid hot air thermal cycler | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | i think the relay for the fan is busted | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | it has a 0.1 uF + 100 ohm, 10% 10% 630V | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | is that big enough to melt a screwdriver if i arc it? | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | what is the protocol for discharging caps? | 20:17 |
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| nmz787 | hello | 20:21 |
| ThomasEgi | it wont melt the screwdriver | 20:22 |
| ThomasEgi | but you can expeect a bunch of sparks to fly away | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | sorry i didn't mean to sound impatient | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | ##electronics says i need to login | 20:22 |
| kanzure | that means your irc nickname isn't registered with NickServ | 20:22 |
| kanzure | /query nickserv help | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | and i wans't sure if irssi wasnt responding | 20:22 |
| kanzure | /query nickserv register | 20:22 |
| ThomasEgi | propper protocol is to disconnect them from the power source. and discharge over a resistor ( of adequate value, not to small or it'll burst, not too high or you'll wait ways to long) | 20:23 |
| ThomasEgi | the big capacitors (0.1uF isn't really big) are stored with the terminals shorted , so they don't accidently charge up from some random source. | 20:24 |
| nmz787 | col | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | cool | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | logged in now | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | my prof a while ago had a 'death cap' | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | it was the size of three or four of those lantern batteries | 20:25 |
| ThomasEgi | yeah. those are fun. | 20:25 |
| ThomasEgi | but .. there are even bigger ones | 20:25 |
| ThomasEgi | like used to buffer the starter motors of big engines. | 20:26 |
| ThomasEgi | they can go like 10kA short current eachh | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | crydom solid state relay | 20:27 |
| nmz787 | wow | 20:27 |
| ThomasEgi | that cap you have there. a 2Mohm resistor should discharge it safely. | 20:27 |
| ThomasEgi | might take a while. but you can check with a voltmeter. | 20:27 |
| ThomasEgi | given a regular 0.25W resistor | 20:28 |
| ThomasEgi | and there goes my connection.. i guess | 20:32 |
| ThomasEgi | and.. i'm back .. i guess | 20:32 |
| nmz787 | well shorting the ss relay with tweezers turns the fan on | 20:34 |
| ThomasEgi | shorting.. relay.. tweezers.. | 20:35 |
| ThomasEgi | that doesn't make a very trustworthy mental picture | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | yeah then i flipped it on remotely from a power strip | 20:36 |
| ThomasEgi | as long as you stay away from life wires | 20:36 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 20:37 |
| ThomasEgi | otherwise it sounds like.. http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0015/L80Cl14168.jpg | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | i don't think i have any romex | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | aww | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | that's really cute | 20:37 |
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| yash-phone | city council meetings are unexpectedly boring | 20:41 |
| kanzure | what were you expecting, pitchforks? | 20:50 |
| yash-phone | kinda | 20:51 |
| yash-phone | it's all angry old people with no points | 20:51 |
| yash-phone | for the last 3 hours | 20:51 |
| yash-phone | jojack's quite confident we'll get the space though | 20:52 |
| kanzure | ask him about peter arnold | 20:52 |
| kanzure | log has deets.. http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-01-29.log | 20:53 |
| kanzure | oops.. patrick arnold | 20:53 |
| yash-phone | ya he mentioned it to me briefly over pizza, dude males/ingests designer roids or what? | 20:54 |
| yash-phone | makes* | 20:54 |
| kanzure | seems he is a chemist bodybuilder | 20:55 |
| kanzure | fuck now i want pizza. that is a good idea. | 20:55 |
| yash-phone | it was good pizza | 20:55 |
| kanzure | also if you need to keep yourself amused, there was that weird backlast against home dialysis in a diybio thread | 20:57 |
| yash-phone | will give it a browse | 20:59 |
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| nmz787 | well looks like i have a working air thermo cycler | 21:02 |
| nmz787 | it looks like it just uses halogen light bulbs like you get anywhere for cheap | 21:02 |
| nmz787 | the bulb it came with is good though | 21:03 |
| nmz787 | saw a tag that said 1990 | 21:03 |
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| yash-phone | it passed | 21:29 |
| kanzure | this will forever be known as the san diego superdisaster of 2013 | 21:30 |
| yash-phone | mwuahaha | 21:32 |
| kanzure | [x] pipette tips, check | 21:32 |
| kanzure | [x] lc columns, check | 21:32 |
| kanzure | [x] free weights | 21:32 |
| kanzure | were there people opposed to it? | 21:38 |
| yash-phone | nope | 21:42 |
| yash-phone | gonna go grab beers | 21:42 |
| -!- xx is now known as tofuboss | 22:04 | |
| kanzure | "Easiest way to reach him is to make a burner account on ProhormoneForum.com - he's got his own section there where he posts a few times a day." | 22:08 |
| kanzure | wtf http://www.prohormoneforum.com/content/ | 22:09 |
| kanzure | http://www.prohormoneforum.com/q-patrick-arnold/ | 22:09 |
| -!- tofuboss is now known as xx | 22:11 | |
| kanzure | "It appears that you've exceeded the maximum number of posts you can view, but wait, there's a simple solution. To unlock the forum and continue viewing messages," | 22:18 |
| kanzure | yep this place is evil | 22:18 |
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| kanzure | "the dead grandmother problem" http://pike.psu.edu/dongwon/pro/grannies.pdf | 23:40 |
| archels | no standard error bars? tsk | 23:43 |
| kanzure | +- 1 granny | 23:43 |
| * Juul is in vancouver for no good reason | 23:44 | |
| Juul | is there anything good in vancouver? | 23:44 |
| Juul | they could also have all exams be unannounced | 23:46 |
| Juul | so many possible solutions are missing | 23:46 |
| kanzure | the twist could be that the professor murdered your granny, and he knows it | 23:46 |
| Juul | there is a serious lack of creative thinking in this article | 23:46 |
| kanzure | Juul: there's vancouver hackerspace and upverter | 23:46 |
| kanzure | Juul: also http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups#vancouver | 23:47 |
| Juul | the vancouver hackerspace is nice. i went there straight from the airport, but i didn't know about upverter | 23:47 |
| kanzure | upverter is like circuitlab sorta | 23:48 |
| kanzure | also go find michael yamashita | 23:49 |
| kanzure | there's a nice aquarium in vancouver, i hear | 23:50 |
| Juul | good idea | 23:50 |
| Juul | yeah! i do love aquariums | 23:50 |
| Juul | as long as they don't feel like fish prisons | 23:50 |
| kanzure | it is giant | 23:50 |
| kanzure | i was supposed to go last time i went but i rebuilt an alternator instead | 23:51 |
| Juul | hah | 23:51 |
| kanzure | how long are you in vancouver? | 23:51 |
| kanzure | go whistler maybe | 23:51 |
| Juul | 4 days only | 23:52 |
| Juul | cool | 23:53 |
| Juul | thanks for the tips | 23:53 |
| kanzure | also you could go south to thegeekgroup over the border | 23:53 |
| Juul | ah, i'm having some visa stuff | 23:53 |
| kanzure | hacking the system? | 23:54 |
| Juul | so i'm trying to re-enter in a nice way | 23:54 |
| Juul | "look: i'm flying in from canada. that means i'm not a jobless bum!" | 23:54 |
| kanzure | vancouver airport has US customs on site | 23:54 |
| Juul | so they check your passport before you take off? | 23:55 |
| kanzure | yes | 23:55 |
| Juul | well, let's hope they like my plan of being a tourist in the u.s. for the next couple of months | 23:55 |
| kanzure | i like it. | 23:58 |
| --- Log closed Wed Jan 30 00:00:45 2013 | ||
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