| --- Log opened Mon Feb 04 00:00:39 2013 | ||
| --- Day changed Mon Feb 04 2013 | ||
| ThomasEgi | hm. there is some pdf buildin 3d stuff. iirc it dates back befor webgl | 00:00 |
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| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(12)00776-3 | 00:24 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Whole-Cell%20Computational%20Model%20Predicts%20Phenotype%20from%20Genotype.pdf | 00:24 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://iospress.metapress.com/content/p61284485326g608/?genre=article&issn=1386-6338&volume=11&issue=3&spage=137 | 00:45 |
| paperbot | IndexError: list index out of range (file "/srv/ikiwiki/paperbot/modules/papers.py", line 68, in download) | 00:45 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://iospress.metapress.com/content/p61284485326g608/ | 00:45 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 625, in send) | 00:45 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://iospress.metapress.com/content/p61284485326g608/fulltext.pdf | 00:46 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 625, in send) | 00:46 |
| @kanzure | what? iospress.metapress.com seems to exist, why is this an error? | 00:46 |
| @kanzure | "Towards a virtual C. elegans: A framework for simulation and visualization of the neuromuscular system in a 3D physical environment" | 00:47 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230746115_Towards_a_virtual_C._elegans_A_framework_for_simulation_and_visualization_of_the_neuromuscular_system_in_a_3D_physical_environment/file/d912f503d6bcfcbe36.pdf | 00:47 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fa0aff0321ed7f0cdebe48e861a6470c.pdf | 00:47 |
| @kanzure | video from paper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uV3yTmUlgo | 00:48 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v8/n1/full/nnano.2012.232.html | 00:59 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Biosynthesis%20of%20luminescent%20quantum%20dots%20in%20an%20earthworm.pdf | 00:59 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v7/n5/full/nnano.2012.34.html | 01:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Real-time%20single-molecule%20imaging%20of%20quantum%20interference.pdf | 01:04 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v2/n4/full/ncomms1263.html | 01:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Quantum%20interference%20of%20large%20organic%20molecules.pdf | 01:05 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v12/n10/abs/nn.2384.html | 01:05 |
| paperbot | HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v12/n10/pdf/nn.2384.pdf | 01:05 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n10/abs/nn.3203.html | 01:06 |
| paperbot | HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n10/pdf/nn.3203.pdf | 01:06 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n5/full/nn.3079.html | 01:07 |
| paperbot | HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v15/n5/pdf/nn.3079.pdf | 01:07 |
| @kanzure | i don't know why i thought 3079 would work if 3203 wouldn't. | 01:07 |
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| archels | Serotonin controls the time scale of reward prediction. | 01:55 |
| archels | Noradrenaline controls the randomness in action selection. | 01:55 |
| archels | Acetylcholine controls what to be learned and what to be neglected. | 01:55 |
| archels | interesting hypotheses by Kenji Doya | 01:55 |
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| nmz787 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-R0_nXpc7I | 02:06 |
| nmz787 | .title | 02:06 |
| yoleaux | Homemade Oxygen Plasma Etcher & PDMS to Glass Bonding Test - Black Box Labs - YouTube | 02:06 |
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| nmz787 | http://blackboxlabsinc.com/research.html | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | Low-Cost Laser Writer for Rapid Prototyping of Micro Structures | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | an Abstract Has Been Submitted to the Electrochemical Society: | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | Title: "Low Cost UV Laser Direct Write Photolithography System for Rapid Prototyping of Microsystems" Author: John Waynelovich, Abtin Sepehri, Beejal Mehta, Sam Kassegne, and A. Khosla. | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | 'DLP Photolithography System | 02:11 |
| nmz787 | a Machine Developed for the Quick Fabrication of MEMS and Microfluidic Devices. | 02:11 |
| nmz787 | Targeted to Small Companies and University Labs Who Do not Have the Budget to House a Full Microfabrication Facility. Very Useful for Biological Research. ' | 02:11 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: you up | 02:26 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: nevermind | 02:27 |
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| nmz787 | paperbot: http://ma.ecsdl.org/content/MA2012-02/59/3990.full.pdf | 02:30 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ab123d6d1d582a07530e3c47c9b8055c.pdf | 02:30 |
| nmz787 | fenn: Low cost UV laser direct write photolithography | 02:30 |
| nmz787 | fenn ^^ | 02:30 |
| nmz787 | fenn: using linuxCNC | 02:31 |
| nmz787 | 1cm/second | 02:32 |
| eleitl | what is linuxCNC? | 02:32 |
| nmz787 | A line width of lesss than 2 microns is easily achievable | 02:32 |
| nmz787 | prog for controlling CNC steppers or servos from linux | 02:32 |
| eleitl | so no hardware, just software. | 02:32 |
| nmz787 | i dunno what files it takes, but it def uses gcode | 02:32 |
| nmz787 | it spits out the ttl signals that a standard 'pulse' 'dir' motor controller would take in | 02:33 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: $1000, proven, not let's do this | 02:34 |
| nmz787 | you can definitely see some wobble in the SDSU logo (Figure 2) | 02:35 |
| nmz787 | but i guess that might have been the inkscape font or something | 02:35 |
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| chido | fenn: I did, at first... but I am afraid I wouldn't meet their "tame" standards concerning the message it's supposed to convey, and I still haven't finished the one I'm making for yash | 02:57 |
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| archels | paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-3190/6/1/016006/pdf/1748-3190_6_1_016006.pdf | 05:24 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1a296f0d18c5dbd37f63d38a137d2757.pdf | 05:24 |
| archels | .botsnack | 05:25 |
| yoleaux | :D | 05:25 |
| archels | not you! | 05:25 |
| archels | paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/14689367.2010.515396 | 05:29 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/245cb9d63eeac6944748c1211a9c77a0.pdf | 05:29 |
| eudoxia | >At Minuteman Missile National Historic Site in South Dakota, the entrance to the underground missile launch control center is sealed by a blast-proof door emblazoned with a painted spoof of Domino's Pizza's red, white, and blue pizza delivery box.[37] The box is labeled "Minuteman II", and hand-lettered text on the door reads "World-wide delivery in 30 minutes or less, or your next one is free", spoofing a former Domin | 05:43 |
| eudoxia | o's Pizza slogan. | 05:43 |
| eudoxia | oh americans <3 | 05:43 |
| ArmilusDajjal | yeah good stuff | 05:44 |
| eleitl | of course, the best package deliveries are those already having been made | 05:54 |
| eleitl | you only need to send a few photons their way | 05:54 |
| cpopell | eudoxia | 06:11 |
| eudoxia | hey cpopell | 06:11 |
| cpopell | got laid off, giving this a full time shot | 06:11 |
| eleitl | sorry to hear that | 06:12 |
| eudoxia | i heard, sorry about your job | 06:12 |
| cpopell | Shrug. I have enough contacts to at least make it feasible | 06:12 |
| cpopell | And I really rather enjoy working with businessspeak buzzwords :D | 06:13 |
| eleitl | :) | 06:13 |
| cpopell | We're going to start with the release on 3d printing, probably. We've got some columns lined up, I"m lining up some IRL seminars on advertising/emerging tech interactions. | 06:13 |
| juri_ | cpopell: you do much with 3d printing? | 06:31 |
| cpopell | juri_: I do a very esoteric method for graduate work, but we're doing a writeup on the state of the field, appropriate solutions, limited market analysis, etc. | 06:32 |
| cpopell | Anything I do tends to be for rep or for cash. | 06:33 |
| cpopell | brb | 06:33 |
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| juri_ | you know, i imagine this is a touchy subject, but.. how many people here have attempted suicide? | 07:18 |
| eudoxia | i bet more than the mean for the rest of society | 07:19 |
| juri_ | I was just sitting here, thinking about death (not properly suicidal, but depressed as hell. deadlines past, code to write, material to read, and i've been sick for days, and can't concentrate), and thought i'd ask. for a place filled with such high profile geeks, i think discussing it is much more imporatnt than letting people believe they're alone. | 07:22 |
| cpopell | juri_ : I can't even comprehend the concept for myself, though I'm aware of why people do. | 07:32 |
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| cpopell | Plenty of people to reach out to here, and we're all sensitive to that after aswartz's passing. | 07:32 |
| juri_ | i'm just getting sick, and have the pressure of too many projects, and rent past due, with a customer being not-so-nice. not nearly that kind of pressure. | 07:36 |
| juri_ | sick-er. doing worse today, than i was yesterday / the day before. | 07:37 |
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| ParahSai1in | kanzure: ah thanks on the jstor | 07:58 |
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| juri_ | cpopell: so, what kind of 3d printing do you perform? | 09:28 |
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| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130124/srep01135/full/srep01135.html | 10:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Terrestrial%20pesticide%20exposure%20of%20amphibians%3A%20An%20underestimated%20cause%20of%20global%20decline%3F.pdf | 10:04 |
| nmz787 | juri_: you're not alone, i've learned enough about buddhism that when i get sad i immediately think 'none of this really matters in the end, the average DC bias of the world is 0' or something, but this generally is pretty 'nothing matters' in a really nasty lost-feeling way | 10:04 |
| klafka | hiya | 10:04 |
| nmz787 | eudoxia: I've been to the minuteman missile site | 10:05 |
| nmz787 | eudoxia: I chuckled at the dominoes pizza joke | 10:05 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: suicidal depression is not about "being sad". | 10:05 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: generally that is what sets it off for me, I don't get suicidal when i'm groovin on good vibes | 10:06 |
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| archels | 'the average DC bias of the world is 0' | 10:14 |
| archels | that's an interesting statement :) what do you mean? | 10:14 |
| nmz787 | heh | 10:16 |
| nmz787 | i think it was hawking i heard once talk about how time might be some elastic oscillation or something | 10:16 |
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| nmz787 | so if time is going to reverse, then keep reversing, eventually this and all other possibly realities will form again at some time | 10:17 |
| nmz787 | so what I'm doing now is unique, but not impossible to have happened before, and it may happen again | 10:18 |
| nmz787 | if matter can't be created nor destroyed... there really is no direction | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | weeeaak. | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: i know that you can do better than that. | 10:20 |
| nmz787 | hmm, i guess i could be more concise | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | i also think you could probably come up with an idea that doesn't require multiple world interpretation | 10:20 |
| nmz787 | but generally that is kind of my world/universe view | 10:20 |
| nmz787 | please tell me if you think its incorrect | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | i think requiring MWI is out-of-scope | 10:21 |
| @kanzure | does my objection make sense? | 10:22 |
| nmz787 | MWI? | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | i typed it out above | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | "that doesn't require multiple world interpretation" | 10:23 |
| archels | Laplace? I had no need of that hypothesis? | 10:23 |
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| nmz787 | hmm, well MWI out of scope, being sad just sucks | 10:27 |
| nmz787 | i generally det distraught thinking life as an emergent property is interesting, but it's literally a fight against the universe (entropy) and it will never end | 10:28 |
| nmz787 | but for some reason, since the alternative is nothingness, i guess something is better than nothing | 10:28 |
| nmz787 | so i have been able to ride out being pretty sad | 10:28 |
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| @kanzure | paperbot: http://jsonip.com/ | 11:05 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5af9f56aac1fd70113bae118cd87f210.txt | 11:05 |
| nmz787 | yashgaroth: paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0956566396859318 | 11:17 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0956566396859318 | 11:17 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20recirculating-flow%20fluorescent%20oxygen%20sensor.pdf | 11:17 |
| @kanzure | http://ayoungprogrammer.blogspot.ca/2013/01/part-3-making-ocr-for-equations.html | 11:32 |
| @kanzure | .title | 11:32 |
| yoleaux | Life of a young programmer: Equation OCR Tutorial Part 3: Making an OCR for Equations using OpenCV and Tesseract | 11:32 |
| @kanzure | gah source code on pastebin? why would you do that. | 11:33 |
| @kanzure | here's my gist backup, https://gist.github.com/4708992 | 11:34 |
| juri_ | i need to play with openCV more. its growing, while the project i maintain is beyond stagnant. | 11:36 |
| chris_99 | whats the project you maintain | 11:36 |
| @kanzure | i was so disappointed with tesseract when i first used it that it tainted my opinion of it forever | 11:37 |
| @kanzure | hopefully it has improved and this article is accurate | 11:37 |
| @kanzure | equation extraction is really useful | 11:37 |
| chris_99 | tesseract's worked pretty well for me before | 11:37 |
| @kanzure | in 2008 i got results like this: http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-03-24-autoscholar-OCR-notgood.png | 11:37 |
| klafka | that was like an eternity ago though | 11:37 |
| chris_99 | hmm | 11:38 |
| @kanzure | klafka: true that. | 11:38 |
| @kanzure | klafka: looks active https://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/source/list (last commit was 3 days ago) | 11:38 |
| chris_99 | nmz787, what ADC are you using for your project btw? | 11:39 |
| juri_ | chris: gnu gift. | 11:40 |
| juri_ | the algorithm actually has a lot of legs, that i haven't managed to express through the demos. | 11:40 |
| chris_99 | ooh interesting | 11:42 |
| juri_ | i've also picked up a paper on 3d gabor filtering, that i really like. | 11:42 |
| juri_ | i haven't even managed to implement that. | 11:43 |
| chris_99 | since you know image detection-y stuff mind if i ask you about something, basically i've implment this http://www.ipol.im/pub/art/2012/gjmr-lsd/ | 11:43 |
| chris_99 | to try and detect rectangles | 11:44 |
| chris_99 | it works fine at detecting the lines | 11:44 |
| chris_99 | but since normally i don't get the full four lines of a rectangle | 11:44 |
| chris_99 | i'm having difficult working out what are rectangles | 11:44 |
| @kanzure | what were the methods you mentioned you tried previously? | 11:45 |
| chris_99 | Hough transform which didn't work out very well at all | 11:45 |
| chris_99 | the LSD method is pretty good at getting most lines though | 11:45 |
| @kanzure | have you considered just drawing random rectangles | 11:45 |
| chris_99 | no, since i end up with quite a few lines, and it's also in Java | 11:46 |
| juri_ | cute filter. | 11:47 |
| chris_99 | so i'm a bit speed constrained | 11:47 |
| juri_ | so, what do you need to do, exactly? | 11:48 |
| chris_99 | find groups of rectangles based on these lines i extract | 11:48 |
| chris_99 | the rectangles are all in line with each, but can be tilted | 11:49 |
| juri_ | oh. that's pretty easy. | 11:49 |
| chris_99 | what do you recommend i look @ | 11:50 |
| juri_ | just take the instances where two of your line segments have endpoints within X distance of each other, and the angle of the two segments relative to each other is greater than 88 degrees. sort them based on uper-left, lower-right, uper-right, and lower left, draw new frames based on random pairings of one out of each of the four piles (your prospective rectangle), then use a gabor filter to compare that image to the image you're extracting. | 11:51 |
| juri_ | gabor weights will show you which ones match, nd which ones don't. | 11:51 |
| chris_99 | oh i've tried filtering based on angles | 11:52 |
| chris_99 | that sort of sucked a bit though | 11:52 |
| chris_99 | as for some reason some of the line angles seem a bit off | 11:52 |
| chris_99 | like not that similar to the opposite line i mean | 11:53 |
| chris_99 | i've also tried to find the nearest lines, but sometimes theres erroneous lines in the middle | 11:53 |
| juri_ | now, which ones out of this frame do you want? | 11:54 |
| chris_99 | yeah, thats a good question, this is why i was wondering if i need a classifier or something | 11:55 |
| chris_99 | i need say specific numbers of rectangles like 5 for instance | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: wolfson wm8253 | 11:56 |
| juri_ | well, gabor filtering for accuracy against the source image will probably work very well for you. | 11:56 |
| juri_ | gabor filters work great as edge-verifiors. | 11:56 |
| chris_99 | cheers nmz787 | 11:56 |
| chris_99 | hmm i'll have a look at those then, cheers | 11:57 |
| juri_ | no problem. | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: http://www.openspectrometer.com/datasheets/WM8253.pdf | 11:57 |
| chris_99 | how much does that one cost nmz787 | 11:57 |
| juri_ | gift's gabor filter uses a 256x256 window to work within, and is written in C (and SSE3 optimized). it should be easy to just take out of the feature extractor, and play with. | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | aha, i'll have to port to java then, heh | 11:58 |
| chris_99 | nmz787, i'm looking @ http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/AD7780BRUZ/AD7780BRUZ-ND/2077067 | 11:59 |
| juri_ | the comparison engine for features however is a pile of C++ i haven't had the willpower to walk into. i fix it when i must. | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: like $2 or $3 USD | 11:59 |
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| chris_99 | aha good price | 11:59 |
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| nmz787 | chris_99: the two ADCs are quite different, the one you linked is <15 samples per second, the one i linked is around 6 million | 12:01 |
| chris_99 | indeed | 12:01 |
| chris_99 | i'm after low sample rate | 12:01 |
| chris_99 | high bit depth | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: also you can do sigma-delta ADC with 1 line on most microcontrollers | 12:01 |
| chris_99 | i need 24 bit though | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | this seems good for that then | 12:01 |
| ThomasEgi | 24bit?? | 12:01 |
| ThomasEgi | over what voltage range? | 12:01 |
| chris_99 | 0 to 2.5 | 12:02 |
| chris_99 | V | 12:02 |
| ThomasEgi | that's 150nV per step? so your noise better is below 75. | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: won't he just have really awesome resolution of his noise if not? | 12:04 |
| ThomasEgi | what's your bandwith? | 12:04 |
| ThomasEgi | well 75nV is still possible depending on your bandwith and circuit | 12:04 |
| chris_99 | slow ThomasEgi very slow, i'm testing out the hall effect dealios | 12:05 |
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| nmz787 | chris_99: you still haven't got the rectangle detection working? | 12:06 |
| ThomasEgi | may i ask what you need 24bit resolution for? | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: can you upload some test images? | 12:06 |
| chris_99 | no nmz787, it's been a while since i worked on it though | 12:06 |
| chris_99 | 24 bit might be too much for the hall effect, but maybe more useful for useful for the load cell idea | 12:07 |
| juri_ | yea, this seems pretty simple, to me. | 12:09 |
| ThomasEgi | 24bit gives you more than 16mio discrete values. | 12:09 |
| chris_99 | i need to get a loadcell i guess | 12:09 |
| ThomasEgi | and if you want meaningfull 24 bit messurements you'd have to build your entire aperature pretty well, including the circuit, and the power supply. | 12:09 |
| ThomasEgi | it's for that hygrometer right? | 12:10 |
| chris_99 | mm hydrometer but yeah | 12:10 |
| ThomasEgi | hydro. yeah. | 12:10 |
| ThomasEgi | arent they usualy optically. so you'd have like a certain human error when reading it already? | 12:11 |
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| chris_99 | yeah they float in a trial jar and you have to read the closest number to the water line | 12:12 |
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| ThomasEgi | and in what intervals are those lines? | 12:13 |
| ThomasEgi | 1mm, 2, 5 maybe? | 12:13 |
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| chris_99 | probably 5mm iirc | 12:13 |
| ThomasEgi | on a scale maybe 20 cm long ? | 12:14 |
| chris_99 | they sort of vary in scale lengths, one i've got is 8cm | 12:14 |
| ThomasEgi | so you have 8cm, in 5mm increments. that makes 16 values. | 12:14 |
| ThomasEgi | that makes exactly 4 bit resolution for your analog hydrometer | 12:15 |
| ThomasEgi | a regular microcontroller offers you 8bit | 12:15 |
| ThomasEgi | given the same 8cm scale that's equivalent to 0.3 mm lines. | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | i'm not sure how you can equate that directly to the hall effect though | 12:17 |
| ThomasEgi | if you have an atmega. you'll even get 10 bits accuracy. | 12:17 |
| chris_99 | i've got a pic with 10 bit | 12:18 |
| ThomasEgi | see. even 4x more resolution than the 8bits already | 12:19 |
| ThomasEgi | and another 14 bits would add another 16kx times the resolution you have wtih 10 | 12:19 |
| ThomasEgi | if you'd map that to a linear distance of 8cm.. you'd get 5nm resolution. a distance where you can comfortably count the number of atoms between each value | 12:21 |
| ThomasEgi | 10 bit is probably more than enough already | 12:21 |
| juri_ | you know, it suprises me sometimes, how 'large' groups of atoms are. we work in small increments. | 12:22 |
| chris_99 | i need to try with a better reference voltage i think | 12:22 |
| heath | kanzure: so we raped the logs here at i11 | 12:23 |
| chris_99 | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0031320382900036 | 12:23 |
| heath | fetched all the video links | 12:23 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Clustering%20of%20collinear%20line%20segments%20.pdf | 12:23 |
| heath | ..from this channel | 12:23 |
| @kanzure | heath: loop the videos while coding | 12:24 |
| heath | when i get the sixth monitor, you got it | 12:24 |
| nmz787 | heath: what's i11 | 12:24 |
| heath | isotope11.com | 12:24 |
| heath | my workplace | 12:24 |
| @kanzure | i assume you took the links from http://gnusha.org/logs/meta/hplusroadmap-2013-02-02-links.url.txt | 12:24 |
| heath | nope | 12:25 |
| heath | but, that's going to be a thing now | 12:25 |
| nmz787 | eleitl: can you keep an animal alive if you scoop it's brain out? | 12:25 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: ^ | 12:25 |
| juri_ | reading all of the good material posted around here is more than a fulltime job. | 12:25 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: yes | 12:26 |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, if you really need a bit or 2 more resolution, you could add a bit of noise to your signal, and just sample multiple values, and average them out. | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | juri_: no offense, but maybe you should get better at reading? | 12:26 |
| chris_99 | ThomasEgi, i figure the problem atm comes from a lack of decent reference voltage | 12:26 |
| heath | kanzure: https://github.com/knewter/probably_worth_watching | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | juri_: personally, i feel that we are at like 10-15% of reading capacity /maybe/ | 12:26 |
| juri_ | kanzure: only some taken. ;) | 12:26 |
| heath | nmz787: https://github.com/knewter/probably_worth_watching/blob/master/spec/units/samples/irc_log_sample.txt | 12:27 |
| heath | you were used as a sample subject ;) | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | huh? how is that video related? | 12:27 |
| juri_ | maybe its because i take things breadth first, and am still trying to read through everything in the papers2 directory. ;) | 12:27 |
| heath | it extracts video links | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | that is a pdf link | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | juri_: keep at it | 12:27 |
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| heath | it was just used for parsing the user | 12:28 |
| juri_ | I just closed a bug, i guess its time to read another paper. ;) | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | who is knewter | 12:28 |
| heath | josh | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | why is this a rake app :/ | 12:28 |
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| @kanzure | oh wait, sorry | 12:29 |
| heath | http://isotope11.com/about/josh-adams | 12:29 |
| nmz787 | heath: i don't get it | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | rake != rack | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | i thought it said rack. rake is fine. | 12:29 |
| nmz787 | heath: did the software choose those two lines as 'interesting'? | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | no, that is data for a unit test | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | heath was just saying that you have the Supreme Honor of haivng been selected for the data to be rammed through a unit test. | 12:31 |
| @kanzure | *having | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | yay | 12:32 |
| nmz787 | i'll get rammed, yay! | 12:32 |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, do you pre amplify your signal ? | 12:33 |
| chris_99 | not atm these are all things i'm planning on trying :) | 12:33 |
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| chris_99 | i'm thinking about just getting a decent ADC with a PGA | 12:33 |
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| ThomasEgi | you know... the one you have is probably more than enough. if you properly wire it up. | 12:34 |
| chris_99 | it doesn't do gain, afaik | 12:35 |
| ThomasEgi | that's what op-amps are for | 12:35 |
| ThomasEgi | and with an op-amp in front of it. you can also use a bit of analog filtering to get rid of the higher frequencies you won't really use anyway | 12:36 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: you could probably link-dump genome dataset stuff here : [DIYbio] Advice for a computer scientist who doesn't understand biolog | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | he should immediately start reading protocols and the books in http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books | 12:40 |
| heath | https://gist.github.com/4709576 | 12:41 |
| heath | that's 2009 | 12:41 |
| heath | https://gist.github.com/raw/4709576/e98359b1777c75ba747842c76435d92a2fa9d0b3/gistfile1.txt is the better link | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | can't you dump this to yaml or json instead of text | 12:42 |
| nmz787 | oO heath found this on that link https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&shva=1#inbox | 12:43 |
| nmz787 | err | 12:43 |
| nmz787 | http://www.sencha.com/blog/the-making-of-fastbook-an-html5-love-story/ | 12:43 |
| @kanzure | i wish sencha would release sencha touch | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | i mean, as open source. | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | heath: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hplusroadmap-youtube-links.txt | 12:44 |
| nmz787 | it's reassuring to see that, as I'm looking to implement something like this http://madkingsmusings.blogspot.com/2011/02/crop-and-upload-image-client-side.html | 12:45 |
| heath | kanzure: that's cool | 12:47 |
| heath | but there's also links to blip and vimeo | 12:47 |
| @kanzure | pfft blip | 12:48 |
| heath | :) | 12:48 |
| heath | ~600 vimeo links | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | 2600 youtube links | 12:48 |
| heath | ~100 blip | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | dnatube? | 12:49 |
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| @kanzure | heath: you might also want http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hplusroadmap-hplusvideo-links.txt which were other recommended videos i was slinging around | 12:58 |
| heath | noted sir | 12:59 |
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| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.neuro.28.061604.135703 | 14:31 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Dendritic%20Computation.pdf | 14:31 |
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| ParahSai1in | what i really would have liked to see is comparison between ntru and a symmetric crypto scheme, if it's so much faster than the other asymmetric ones | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | what are you referring to? | 14:41 |
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| ParahSai1in | ah oops, http://tbuktu.github.com/ntru/ | 14:44 |
| ParahSai1in | also, log scale on that kind of graph | 14:44 |
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| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/12/9/3651 | 14:45 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Visual%20projections%20routed%20to%20the%20auditory%20pathway%20in%20ferrets%3A%20receptive%20fields%20of%20visual%20neurons%20in%20primary%20auditory%20cortex.pdf | 14:45 |
| @kanzure | "Following neonatal surgical manipulations, a specific population of retinal ganglion cells is induced to innervate the auditory thalamus and provides visual input to cells in auditory cortex (Sur et al., 1988)." | 14:45 |
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| @kanzure | http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2013/02/03/announce-we-ami-can-now-extract-semantic-information-from-scientific-pdfs/ | 16:10 |
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| juri_ | what's AMI? | 16:29 |
| juri_ | and can i get the source code? ;) | 16:30 |
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| @kanzure | "Best way for explain concept of DevOps to CIO: is like TaskRabbit, but power by The Avengers." | 17:07 |
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| @kanzure | "Every advance civilization is progress until is run out of IPv4 address." | 17:12 |
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| @fenn | spectrum data isn't semantic data. what are they smoking | 17:31 |
| @fenn | how about parsing the title instead | 17:32 |
| @kanzure | why is there no legitimately good library for dumping in a pdf and getting out metadata? i don't care if the metadata is incomplete. | 17:33 |
| @kanzure | "grab a selection of text and ask google scholar" is not an okay solution. | 17:33 |
| @kanzure | (this is what zotero does for unmarked pdfs) | 17:37 |
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| cpopell | kanzure, either here or in pm could you tell me what sites paperbot is compatible with? | 17:40 |
| @kanzure | all of them. | 17:47 |
| @kanzure | incompatibility is a bug that should be fixed | 17:48 |
| @kanzure | for a somewhat comprehensive list, see https://github.com/zotero/translators | 17:48 |
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| @kanzure | cpopell: also see https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 17:50 |
| cpopell | out of curiosity, how has zotero not gotten in trouble | 17:51 |
| @kanzure | academics love zotero http://zotero.org/ | 17:52 |
| @kanzure | at least 200,000 users. | 17:52 |
| @kanzure | more details: https://groups.google.com/group/science-liberation-front/msg/b02bfe7d8e73b9fe | 17:52 |
| @kanzure | "The functionality that Zotero provides isn't substantively different from saving PDFs and typing out citations by hand and falls within the realm of acceptable use. As such, the relationship between Zotero and publishers is hardly adversarial. As far as I am aware, no publisher has ever intentionally broken a Zotero translator, and some publishers have even contributed translators of their own." | 17:53 |
| cpopell | but doesn't it scrape pdfs without needing login data? | 17:54 |
| @kanzure | zotero doesn't handle authentication | 17:54 |
| cpopell | then how's paperbot doing it? | 17:55 |
| @kanzure | you can arrive at that answer yourself with deductive powers, are you sure you want me to tell you? | 17:56 |
| cpopell | I mean, I have a guess. | 17:56 |
| @kanzure | go for it | 17:56 |
| cpopell | using contributed people's login data | 17:56 |
| @kanzure | no, but i would like to add that in the near future | 17:57 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia felt like an idiot once he figured it out; took him >4 hours. | 17:57 |
| @fenn | uff. business, history, and education have more papers on zotero than biology | 17:57 |
| @kanzure | what? | 17:57 |
| @kanzure | zotero is a firefox extension | 17:57 |
| cpopell | Hm, is there some sort of way to ignore paywalls? | 17:58 |
| @fenn | oh sorry, it's tracking people, not papers | 17:58 |
| @kanzure | cpopell: elaborate | 17:58 |
| cpopell | I remember you looking at ways to disable them maybe a year ago | 17:58 |
| cpopell | to skip login, etc. | 17:59 |
| @kanzure | fenn: you know the answer, right? | 17:59 |
| @kanzure | because i was surprised by how long it took eudoxia to figure it out | 17:59 |
| @fenn | yes you just need the universal crypto-key algorithm described in the movie sneakers | 17:59 |
| @kanzure | i gave eudoxia two hints | 18:00 |
| @kanzure | 1) it's *probably* in a watermark in those pdfs by now, but i'm not actually sure because i haven't looked | 18:00 |
| @kanzure | 2) it's not in the code | 18:00 |
| @fenn | it? | 18:00 |
| @kanzure | i had to give him #2 because he kept trying to see if paperbot.git had the answer | 18:00 |
| @kanzure | fenn: the answer to cpopell's query. | 18:00 |
| @fenn | oh, some ezproxy bug i bet | 18:00 |
| @kanzure | i wish | 18:00 |
| @kanzure | that's on my todo list | 18:00 |
| @fenn | or you could sign up somewhere as a student with 0 classes | 18:01 |
| @kanzure | ezproxy is not involved | 18:01 |
| @kanzure | (yet) | 18:01 |
| cpopell | !paperbot http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4828244&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D4828244 | 18:02 |
| @kanzure | without the ! | 18:02 |
| @fenn | is the answer because it's running on <redacted educational institution>'s network? | 18:02 |
| cpopell | paperbot http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4828244&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D4828244 | 18:02 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/bd253bfa9ff9c45100d93a68969a7d65.txt | 18:02 |
| cpopell | :( | 18:02 |
| @kanzure | no that was good | 18:03 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4816218/4828222/04828244.pdf?arnumber=4828244 | 18:03 |
| @kanzure | you linked to the login.jsp page | 18:03 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/abc1772da1e121989b1b4954ae57b747.txt | 18:03 |
| @kanzure | ok this one is bad :) | 18:03 |
| @fenn | ieee has always been a pain in the ass because they have so many journals and most places don't subscribe to all of them | 18:03 |
| cpopell | paperbot http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v90/i8/p081905_s1?isAuthorized=no | 18:03 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/37a5e3cb13e920812db5f498dd1be861.txt | 18:03 |
| @kanzure | isAuthorized=no seems like something you would want to remove | 18:04 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://link.aip.org/link/?APPLAB/90/081905/1 | 18:04 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7f1988585620f4d53fb0714242410f0f.txt | 18:04 |
| cpopell | paperbot http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v90/i8/p081905_s1 | 18:04 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/100f612b9a71c951786ddb8adf603344.txt | 18:04 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://scitation.aip.org/getpdf/servlet/GetPDFServlet?filetype=pdf&id=APPLAB000090000008081905000001&idtype=cvips&doi=10.1063/1.2645078&prog=norma | 18:04 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a7132c0d62d7c00e92e8e0553f480556.pdf | 18:05 |
| @kanzure | there you go | 18:05 |
| @kanzure | "Electrohydrodynamic printing of silver nanoparticles by using a focused | 18:05 |
| @kanzure | nanocolloid jet" | 18:05 |
| cpopell | no watermark :| | 18:05 |
| @kanzure | that's a good thing | 18:05 |
| cpopell | yeah, I have access to it but I wanted to see how paperbot worked with one of these nastier to access papers | 18:05 |
| @kanzure | also, no *visible* watermark | 18:05 |
| @fenn | how do you know there's no watermark? | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | i said no visible watermark | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | by visible inspection of the pdf | 18:06 |
| @fenn | cpopell: did you diff the files? | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | visible watermarks are usually just text pasted on the page by their pdf server | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | yeah if you have a copy please upload it somewhere so we can compare the checksums | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | oh wait there is a watermark on the bottom of each page | 18:07 |
| @kanzure | "Downloaded 04 Feb 2013 to 0.0.0.0. Redistribution subject to AIP license or copyright; see http://apl.aip.org/about/rights_and_permissions" | 18:07 |
| @fenn | odd | 18:07 |
| @kanzure | afaik nobody is watermarking images with hidden messages at this point | 18:08 |
| @fenn | anyway automated watermark addition can be automatically subtracted | 18:08 |
| @kanzure | i haven't written that library yet | 18:08 |
| @kanzure | here's my summary of the watermark removal situation: | 18:08 |
| @kanzure | https://groups.google.com/group/science-liberation-front/browse_thread/thread/c68964cf55d8f6fa | 18:08 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: can you sense changes in resistance of metal thickness in the range of microns? | 18:09 |
| @kanzure | fenn: if you have some ideas on a good python/pdf library i would be happy to get started on that watermark removal library | 18:09 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: like if you wanted to tell how much material was left between the tip of a drill bit | 18:09 |
| @kanzure | fenn: but every time i look i just don't find anything i like or can use to do this | 18:09 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, whait wat? | 18:10 |
| @kanzure | i think the solution will probably end up involving some pdf/malware detection bullshit (and the malware signature will be text) | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: I'm thinking you might be able to sense resistance through the drill bit and (metal) material | 18:10 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, if your metal is only 10 microns thinck, and you remove one, you'll definetly be able to meassure this | 18:10 |
| ThomasEgi | but that won't work for drilling at all | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: why wouldnt it work for drilling? | 18:10 |
| ThomasEgi | resistance during drilling is like riding a roallercoaster.. | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | but the resistance is gonna be depended on how much material is left between the bottom of the drilled area, and the backside that would be punched through | 18:11 |
| ThomasEgi | nope. | 18:11 |
| cpopell | Okay guys--3d printing: FDM, SLS, SLA (of whatever type), E-Jet | 18:12 |
| @fenn | the current just goes out into the bulk around the hole | 18:12 |
| cpopell | am I missing anything major? | 18:12 |
| ThomasEgi | fenn, correct. | 18:12 |
| ThomasEgi | the current will go whatever path it can take | 18:12 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: any ideas on how i could auto-stop drilling in molybdenum at about 15 microns remaining | 18:12 |
| nmz787 | ? | 18:12 |
| @kanzure | cpopell: pfft you shouldn't be using your friends to do your job for you, unless you want to pay us. | 18:12 |
| cpopell | :P | 18:13 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, having a good mechanics. calibrate it. cnc move it no only 15 microns above the end | 18:13 |
| cpopell | nah I didn't miss anything except for laminated and fuck that shit | 18:13 |
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| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: how about the current through a FIB beam? | 18:14 |
| @kanzure | cpopell: for the record, you are missing lots. | 18:14 |
| cpopell | category wise? | 18:14 |
| cpopell | bleh, I guess there's bead bed | 18:14 |
| @fenn | object (uv cured inkjet), selective binding inhibitors, zcorp's plaster+dye+binder | 18:14 |
| cpopell | I through DMLS, EBM, SHS, and SLS in the same package | 18:14 |
| cpopell | *throw | 18:14 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, as i said. if you mechanically drill. that's not really going to work. | 18:14 |
| @fenn | objet* | 18:15 |
| cpopell | SLA, DLP are same package | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | fenn: you should send him an invoice (he's getting paid for this list, iirc) | 18:15 |
| @fenn | meh | 18:15 |
| cpopell | kanzure: Not getting paid | 18:15 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, mechanical drilling is like.. a giant mess. metal pieces flying all over the place, drill bits carving into the surface, rough edges, coolant liquid, vibrations, noise. | 18:15 |
| cpopell | That implies it's a commission | 18:15 |
| @fenn | anyway "3d printing" isnt really a concise technical definition | 18:16 |
| cpopell | 'additive manufacturing' | 18:16 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: with the FIB the beam is 10nm, so if the backside (flat) was attached to an electrode, and the FIB beam was the other electrode.... | 18:16 |
| nmz787 | You the current wouldn't go into the bulk, as that would be longer route | 18:17 |
| ThomasEgi | and how exactly are you going to drill with a fib-beam-electrode in your hole? | 18:17 |
| @fenn | robocasting, that reel to reel electronic component method, probably some kind of wire-welding-like method | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: but even with mechanical drilling, the amount of circuit path length decreases as long as you go further down, if the opposite electrode is on the backside... or maybe you could use two electrodes and get some differential | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: sry, backstory is these two comapnies produce pinholes | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: they start by drilling molyb for some X amt of time | 18:19 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, all i can tell you. is that during mechanical drilling, due to the motion, the contact resistance will varry a lot. | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: due to inconsistencies in their molyb stock material thickness, sometimes it's 15microns thick in the center at the end | 18:19 |
| @fenn | kanzure: i was going to say something like eleitl's pdftk command | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | Thomas42: sometimes its 75... etc, much thicker on the order of 15nm or so chunks | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: ^ | 18:20 |
| @kanzure | fenn: pdftk is really useful for splitting out pages, but so far i don't see how it can be used to extract out individual objects. | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: so then they put it in a FIB, and finish the pinhol to like a few microns wide | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | Thorbinator: but if it's too thick the FIB can't get through | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | damnit | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: ^^ | 18:21 |
| @kanzure | fenn: actually, maybe one of the pdf2html things will have the answer. | 18:21 |
| ThomasEgi | yeah but then they "drill" the last part with the fib | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: and lots of time and money are wasted | 18:21 |
| ThomasEgi | and don't use it for messurement | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | Sure but why can't you monitor it like current control to motors? | 18:22 |
| nmz787 | just turn down the power, add a high-resistance/impedance on the backside, and put an ADC on that? | 18:23 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: I could have totally just botched all electronics concepts | 18:23 |
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| ThomasEgi | nmz787, well in a highly simplified version that might work | 18:24 |
| ThomasEgi | but in practice you'd probably have to do a lot of math to get somewhat correct values out of it | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | they have a wire coming out of the FIB already which is supposed to be for some sensing | 18:24 |
| juri_ | does anyone know where i can find a graph of 'how mushy' sluminium gets at what temperatures? | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | they havent used that connection tho | 18:24 |
| juri_ | I'm trying to print aluminium in a vessel made.. of aluminum. | 18:25 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, you better ask someone with more experiences in FIB stuff here. or with microsystems in general | 18:25 |
| juri_ | this sounds like it could end badly. | 18:25 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: I'm thinking if you just correlate readings with pieces that FIB OK, you can use a ballpark reading to tell if you should even try to FIB | 18:25 |
| ThomasEgi | juri_, if you cool the vessel.. might work | 18:25 |
| juri_ | thomas: makes sense to me, i just want to know what temperature i need to keep it at, to keep it from imploding at 30 tor. | 18:26 |
| nmz787 | juri_: you need to remove the oxygen while processing | 18:26 |
| nmz787 | juri_: i've melted soda cans on a gas stove before | 18:27 |
| juri_ | nmz: yepyep. | 18:27 |
| nmz787 | but they like to oxidize | 18:27 |
| @kanzure | fenn: looks relevant http://eternal-todo.com/blog/extract-streams-shellcode-peepdf | 18:27 |
| @kanzure | from https://code.google.com/p/peepdf/ | 18:27 |
| @kanzure | http://blog.zeltser.com/post/6780160077/peepdf-malicious-pdf-analysis | 18:27 |
| ThomasEgi | juri_, if it has to withstand a lot of force. you probably are best of cooling it well below the melting point. or switch to a different material entirely | 18:27 |
| juri_ | thomas: tons of cooling sounds like a good idea. switching materials is going to be way too expensive. | 18:28 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: so if you discard that it's a FIB, if you knew the lowest voltage and current produced by a wire, how much resistance i would need to sense X nanovolts change... where X is the voltage drop in 1 micron of bulk molybdenum etc... | 18:29 |
| nmz787 | lemme try to find that bulk values | 18:29 |
| ThomasEgi | juri_, i can't tell you exactly. you'd probably have to run an FEM simulation to get the temperature gradients inside the vessel, and see if the cold areas are enough to withstand the pressure | 18:29 |
| juri_ | hmm. i may try running it while in a block of ice, then. | 18:30 |
| nmz787 | juri_: you might look at using aluminum oxide ceramic as the vessel | 18:30 |
| juri_ | at least then, the impending implosion would be youtube-worthy! :P | 18:30 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, you don't really have awire there. but more like a plate. and electricity will flow throgh it according to the electric field. | 18:31 |
| ThomasEgi | which will depend on your hole diameter, tip shape of the drill, remaining substrat thickness, the contact area on both sides etc. | 18:31 |
| ThomasEgi | juri_, how about coating the aluminum with something more temperature resistant? | 18:32 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: you're saying plate because... | 18:32 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, or a block | 18:32 |
| ThomasEgi | because the remaining part is definetly not a wire. | 18:32 |
| juri_ | thomas: copper shielding, with water cooling? | 18:33 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: you're saying the working piece is just in the way of the main circuit? | 18:33 |
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| nmz787 | getting in the way of ions | 18:33 |
| ThomasEgi | juri_, i was more thinking abou something that'? thermally insulating. like silicones or so | 18:33 |
| juri_ | mm. that makes sense. | 18:33 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, i am saying that the workpiece is not a wire | 18:33 |
| nmz787 | juri_: how big is the piece to be produced? | 18:33 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, and current flows along the electric field. | 18:34 |
| ThomasEgi | given you allow it to. | 18:34 |
| eudoxia | just dropping by to prepare cpopell for how silly he will feel once he figures out how paperbot works | 18:34 |
| eudoxia | so, be prepared | 18:34 |
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| juri_ | nmz787: i should be able to produce 6"x6"x14". | 18:34 |
| cpopell | :( | 18:34 |
| ThomasEgi | juri_, that's huge? | 18:34 |
| ThomasEgi | why the 30 tor? | 18:34 |
| juri_ | oh. the chamber is much bigger. | 18:35 |
| @kanzure | fenn: it works, peepdf.py has a "search" command that dumps a list of stream ids. | 18:35 |
| juri_ | that's the potential size of parts. | 18:35 |
| ThomasEgi | anything that wolud prevent you from printing it atmospheric pressure? | 18:35 |
| juri_ | sure. its aluminum. | 18:35 |
| ThomasEgi | so? | 18:35 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: .... hrmm | 18:35 |
| juri_ | i'm trying to avoid the dependency on strange gasses. | 18:35 |
| ThomasEgi | what's strange about inert gasses? | 18:36 |
| juri_ | availability? | 18:36 |
| ThomasEgi | where do you live to have no acess to inert gas? | 18:37 |
| juri_ | i'm not some high priced researcher. no budget. | 18:37 |
| juri_ | the only reason i could afford to build my prusa is because i built half of it out of scrap. this will be the same. | 18:37 |
| ThomasEgi | having such a big vacuum vessel made from scrap is quite problematic if you ask me | 18:38 |
| ThomasEgi | and you probably want to say goodbye to whatever you put into it befor starting | 18:39 |
| juri_ | oh, the vessel itsself is just going to be smart-reuse. | 18:39 |
| juri_ | certainly. | 18:39 |
| juri_ | I'm thinking of placing two pressure canning vessels open-side to open-side. | 18:40 |
| nmz787 | juri_: what are you making? | 18:40 |
| juri_ | they're reasonably available (at local thrift stores for $50..) | 18:40 |
| ThomasEgi | i still have that feeling that filling your vessel with N2 would be easier than to deal with all the pressure | 18:40 |
| juri_ | then i'm going to build a mutant version of a rostock 3d printer, place it inside.. | 18:40 |
| juri_ | pull the air out, and draw an aluminum object on an aluminum plate, through fusion welding. | 18:41 |
| juri_ | mmm. | 18:41 |
| ThomasEgi | isn't co2 inert enough to handle aluminum? | 18:41 |
| juri_ | where do i get N2 in a college town, for dirt cheap? | 18:42 |
| @kanzure | fenn: the downside is that this library does not seem to be very portable. | 18:42 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: do you know of any dyes that are magetic field sensitive? | 18:42 |
| juri_ | isn't Co2 something that has oxygen in it? | 18:42 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: maybe add a drop to the hole, put a magnet on the back | 18:42 |
| juri_ | pardon me, i am NO chemist, but i thought the idea was to avoid free oxygen in the environment. | 18:42 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, magnetochromatic? hm.. something like liquid cristals maybe. | 18:42 |
| nmz787 | blah, no thats crap | 18:42 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, i only know them from experimentation kits | 18:43 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 18:43 |
| ThomasEgi | why the dye tho? | 18:45 |
| @kanzure | blah why do people release terrible python things | 18:45 |
| ThomasEgi | if anything. i'd put the manet into the hole. and use a couple of hall sensors on the back to get the angle of the magnetic field lines | 18:46 |
| @kanzure | "fuck packaging, let's just throw all of that away" | 18:46 |
| @kanzure | "reusable code? fuck that shit." | 18:47 |
| @kanzure | https://code.google.com/p/peepdf/source/browse/trunk/PDFCore.py | 18:48 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: how small of a magnet could you use? | 18:51 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, how bout one that fits into the hole? | 18:51 |
| ThomasEgi | i am just wildly guessing here about what might work | 18:52 |
| ThomasEgi | what i can tell you is.. meassuring it won't be quite as easy | 18:52 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: well i'm guessing that the drill bit is at least 10-50 times larger than the thickness to be measuredd | 18:53 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, i've seen worse.. not much worse. but worse | 18:54 |
| @kanzure | this also no tests | 18:57 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, that resistance messuring idea will be tricky. as the resistance of your remaining substrat should range somewhere around 80μOhm. the cables to it are ways higher, contact resistance probably too, not including thermal noise in this messurement | 19:04 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: how about pipetting some amount of this kind of stuff into the hole http://www.staples.com/VersaInk-Magnetic-Ink-Universal-Refill-System-Boxed-CD/product_410397 | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | and sensing the back with some hall sensor/sensor array | 19:06 |
| ThomasEgi | i don't see how this would help you | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | wouldn't the hall effect sensor reading be dependent on how much material was blocking the magenetic field | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | (unless the magnetic ink doesn't emit a field) | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | or if the magnetic ink only gets effected by a magnetic field (is that called paramagnetic?) maybe pulse an electromagnet on the backside, then sense the collapse of the field | 19:08 |
| ThomasEgi | your substrat is paramagnetic, the ink, if anything, would be paramagnetic too. | 19:09 |
| ThomasEgi | as i said. my best idea is to use good mechanics, and a CNC controlled messuring tool. | 19:10 |
| ThomasEgi | ultrasonic would be an option if it wouldn't be such a small distance/precision | 19:11 |
| nmz787 | interferometry would almost work, except i dont know how you'd accurately measure the width of the uncut section, since it can vary within the amount that you need to leave in the hole | 19:15 |
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| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: is there a readymade/almost-there CNC Z axis kit? | 19:16 |
| ThomasEgi | there are industrial messuring tools | 19:16 |
| ThomasEgi | not cheap | 19:16 |
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| @kanzure | fenn: okay i got it. | 19:24 |
| @kanzure | now i need a library name. i was thinking dewatermarked or dewatermarker. | 19:24 |
| cpopell | dehydrater | 19:25 |
| @kanzure | i prefer something not obscure and sort of obvious | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | it's better to name something that people would come up with on their own | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | haha.. pdflaundromat. | 19:30 |
| cpopell | pdfbleach | 19:32 |
| @kanzure | that will attract manga freaks | 19:33 |
| cpopell | pdfcleaner? | 19:34 |
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| @kanzure | pdfparanoia | 19:49 |
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| ThomasEgi | nmz787, depending on the thickness of your workpiece. you may simply use a micrometer screw with a custom tip | 19:56 |
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| @fenn | sorry i should have repeated the command for clarity, it was "pdftk uncompress | | 20:08 |
| @fenn | sed | pdftk compress" | 20:08 |
| @kanzure | fenn: that doesn't remove the watermarks in http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a7132c0d62d7c00e92e8e0553f480556.pdf | 20:09 |
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| @kanzure | "There is thus no guarantee that the generated filename will have any nice properties, such as not requiring quoting when passed to external commands via os.popen()" | 22:19 |
| @kanzure | well that's dumb. | 22:19 |
| @kanzure | streety: https://github.com/streety/Full-text-visualisation | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | streety: you seem to have mastered pdfminer. is there any way to force pdfminer to parse a pdf from a string, unicode or StringIO object? | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | theoretically things should not care if it's a file handler or a StringIO but somehow pdfminer manages to do it | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | ah wait maybe i wasn't seek()'d properly. | 22:25 |
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| cpopell | yashgaroth : We're going to stay with Finfer or Barone | 22:26 |
| yashgaroth | aight if you're driving I'm down | 22:27 |
| cpopell | Oh shit, I thought you had a car :D | 22:27 |
| cpopell | :O | 22:27 |
| yashgaroth | no I do, but I figured we'd carpool | 22:27 |
| yashgaroth | I can drive up to vista | 22:27 |
| yashgaroth | unless you don't have an oh wait I'm coming to pick you up huh | 22:27 |
| cpopell | I'll cover the gas fees and do the driving, but I don't have a car in vista bro. | 22:27 |
| cpopell | :P | 22:27 |
| yashgaroth | ah right okay that makes sense; aight fine then | 22:28 |
| cpopell | lol | 22:28 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: did you see this upverter.com/hackathons/yc-hackathon-2013/ | 22:35 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: wanna join me and two friends to work on openSpectrometer? | 22:35 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: you can help standardize protocols1 | 22:35 |
| nmz787 | ! | 22:35 |
| yashgaroth | oh hey nmz787 that o2 sensor looks very interesting, lemme give it a read | 22:36 |
| nmz787 | the one i posted to diybio | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | the rubidium shit? | 22:38 |
| yashgaroth | yea | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | cool | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | yeah there was a post on there that you should answer | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | regarding e coli cleanup | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: plots spectrometer for $110k | 22:39 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: and openspectrometer didn't get more than like $3k | 22:39 |
| nmz787 | wtf is that | 22:39 |
| @kanzure | plots whowhat? | 22:39 |
| yashgaroth | oh this post about endotoxin removal? | 22:40 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: www.kickstarter.com/projects/jywarren/public-lab-diy-spectrometry-kit | 22:40 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: kickstarter is a fine art; the littlest, minorest details will render a kickstarter campaign a total dud. | 22:40 |
| nmz787 | 'hey here's a cardboard tube' $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ | 22:40 |
| @kanzure | this is why i don't recommend kickstarter | 22:40 |
| klafka | what about indiegogo? | 22:41 |
| @kanzure | also kickstarter users are really critical of videos, so you have to pay to get them produced these days | 22:41 |
| klafka | yeah that's kind of annoying | 22:41 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: so can you make it to sf on the 23rd? | 22:41 |
| @kanzure | hmmm | 22:42 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i think they want it to be a day of 'learn to use upverter' | 22:43 |
| @kanzure | yes | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | so if that's worth a plane ticket :/ | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | i figure it might be an avenue for synthesizer connections | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | i also have some sequencing experiments planned for when i get my first microchannels made | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | which could be novel/cheap | 22:44 |
| @kanzure | a hardware hackathon doesn't make a lot of sense to me. | 22:47 |
| @kanzure | basically they are going to be in ycombinator's offices (or something) | 22:48 |
| @kanzure | so you don't have any tools except lots of laptops | 22:48 |
| @kanzure | and then you only have 6 hours of coding whatever it is you're coding | 22:49 |
| @kanzure | "Start piecing together the block diagram for your idea and designing the building blocks of your idea (similar to which APIs and libraries you’d use in a software hackathon)." | 22:49 |
| @kanzure | that's highly disingenous.. except for the most basic of schematics. | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: yeah, i figure i'm going just to network, and get the openSpectrometer board laid out in one format or upverter | 22:50 |
| nmz787 | or both | 22:50 |
| @kanzure | "Android-style "Intents" for my living room" ugh | 22:50 |
| klafka | wtf? | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | people who go to hackathons just to network are the worst.. | 22:51 |
| klafka | haha | 22:51 |
| klafka | i've been trying to get a hackathon together to make dancesafe mobile apps | 22:51 |
| klafka | kanzure: make me some mobile apps | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | klafka: pay me | 22:51 |
| klafka | i'll pay you a thousand doll hairs | 22:51 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4871911&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D4871911 | 22:51 |
| klafka | it's not nothing | 22:51 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/cb5db780d93534ed24bfd7baa73fbdf8.txt | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | login.jsp is not really supported | 22:51 |
| klafka | i've got an idea 'its like instagram but for drugs' | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=4871911 | 22:52 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d101ddbdafb0a9e144d14aa6c57fa30f.txt | 22:52 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: it wont work | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4816218/4871864/04871911.pdf?arnumber=4871911 | 22:52 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f57d1c5a6a63aa39442766965db694fc.txt | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | guess not | 22:53 |
| nmz787 | google knows about it | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | "Three-dimensional nanolithography using proton beam writing" filetype:pdf | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | http://www.ciba.nus.edu.sg/publications/files/pbw/pbw2003_2.pdf | 22:55 |
| @kanzure | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=18167726915902797395&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44 | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | not on archive.org | 22:55 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v83/i8/p1629_s1 | 22:55 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/6b1950f15c8de1efe14a85289e612602.txt | 22:55 |
| @kanzure | oh well. | 22:55 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://scitation.aip.org/getpdf/servlet/GetPDFServlet?filetype=pdf&id=APPLAB000083000008001629000001&idtype=cvips&doi=10.1063/1.1604468&prog=norma | 22:56 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9613ef81b6460b0fd8f3614b2b820395.pdf | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | where there's a way there's a way :) | 22:56 |
| nmz787 | if you google it you can see they have cached an image of the first page at least | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | that last one worked | 22:56 |
| nmz787 | so it looks like SU-8 doesn't play well with FIB milling | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | anyway if you can think of something that can be prototyped in 7 hours that would make an investor blow his load, i think the hackathon is worth going to | 22:57 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: prob not, but it will get me and friends together to get the board done | 22:58 |
| nmz787 | but i guess you might be able to initiate the polymerization in uncured SU-8 with FIB | 22:58 |
| nmz787 | so i can prob expose with microlith, then transfer to FIB while still fresh and add some nano shit | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | you could probably do some handwaving with nanoengineer | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | "look! i have nanoengineer rendering in webgl from pdb files!" | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | (which is not actually impressive) | 22:59 |
| klafka | haha | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | (which should take less than 60 minutes) | 22:59 |
| nmz787 | huh? | 23:02 |
| nmz787 | i'm not familiar with the codebase really | 23:03 |
| nmz787 | when i worked on it i just did find replace lol | 23:03 |
| @kanzure | nothing about what i just said would actually involve the nanoengineer codebase | 23:03 |
| @kanzure | which is why it is handwaving | 23:03 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/0960-1317/12/4/303 | 23:03 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/SU-8%20thick%20photoresist%20processing%20as%20a%20functional%20material%20for%20MEMS%20applications.pdf | 23:03 |
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| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 23:09 | |
| -!- yash is now known as yashgaroth | 23:09 | |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org.proxy.lib.pdx.edu/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4300186&contentType=Conference+Publications&openedRefinements%3D*%26filter%3DAND(AND(AND(NOT(4283010803))%2CAND(NOT(4283010803)))%2CAND(NOT(4283010803)))%26pageNumber%3D7%26rowsPerPage%3D50%26queryText%3D(lab+on+a+chip) | 23:10 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/cb6aa50444a3fd624734096f4bade85d.txt | 23:10 |
| nmz787 | http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4300186&tag=1 | 23:10 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4300186&tag=1 | 23:11 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/377f62fb967200c298b06ef845e87ca1.txt | 23:11 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: public shame! | 23:29 |
| @kanzure | :( | 23:35 |
| @kanzure | i fail at the really simple tasks, like buying toys for friends. | 23:35 |
| * nmz787 has a friend :D | 23:42 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:58 | |
| --- Log closed Tue Feb 05 00:00:51 2013 | ||
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