| --- Log opened Sat Mar 30 00:00:42 2013 | ||
| jonathanc | it occurs to me that you have an interesting view of what open hardware means | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| @kanzure | why's that? | 00:11 |
| jonathanc | i.e. you want an open library of microcontroller firmware, presumably because you will have a piece of desk equipment which can do anything you want if you just download the right firmware to it | 00:12 |
| jonathanc | one day it makes coffee, the next day it makes yogurt | 00:12 |
| jonathanc | just download the firmware and it reconfigures itself so to speak | 00:12 |
| @kanzure | haha i am not willing to write that much software | 00:12 |
| jonathanc | is that right? | 00:12 |
| @kanzure | no, i'm okay with installing single-purpose software | 00:12 |
| @kanzure | but i do believe in code-reuse wherever possible | 00:13 |
| @kanzure | hmm i should have been more clear | 00:13 |
| @kanzure | i am okay with single-purpose controllers | 00:13 |
| jonathanc | if so then you have to accept that the line between hardware and software at the embedded level gets fuzzy | 00:13 |
| jonathanc | so there is no such thing as "general purpose firmware" which can be downloaded to arbitrary hardware | 00:14 |
| @kanzure | it certainly does get fuzzy in the very constrained environments, but to me that just means "only libraries that are targeting this architecture should be used" | 00:14 |
| jonathanc | if you have a coffee maker then it can only make coffee, it can't make espresso | 00:14 |
| jonathanc | it seems there is a technology cycle continually looping. | 00:15 |
| jonathanc | in the 80s maybe it was "general purpose computer device which can be programmed to do antyhing" | 00:15 |
| @kanzure | there were a lot of pics back then too, i thought? | 00:15 |
| jonathanc | in the 90s it certainly was "independent, specific devices which do a certain things well" like gps, digital camera, pda note taker, flip phone | 00:16 |
| jonathanc | in the 80s, no, there were no PICs | 00:16 |
| jonathanc | most common was motorola 6805 or intel 8051 | 00:16 |
| @kanzure | we jumped straight into the 80xx series? hmm. | 00:17 |
| jonathanc | in the 00s it looped back to "general purpose [smart phone device] which can be programmed to do any app" | 00:17 |
| jonathanc | right now maybe the loop is cycling again | 00:18 |
| jonathanc | right now the semiconductor co's are pushing "internet of things" meme | 00:18 |
| @kanzure | "great, you're going to give me a free ethernet soc?" | 00:19 |
| @kanzure | "haha no" | 00:19 |
| jonathanc | which basically equates to "specific devices which do certain things well" like sense this, or mesh connect that, or control this, etc | 00:19 |
| jonathanc | "internet of things" is being pushed because moore's law has reached a point where 32-bit microcontrollers are in the few-dollar range, so networking can soon be ubiquitous | 00:20 |
| jonathanc | 802.15.xx | 00:20 |
| jonathanc | semiconductor co's can sell billions of chips if they are used in everything (ex. lightbulbs) | 00:21 |
| jonathanc | this means firmware will become more specific again, not more general-purpose-app type | 00:22 |
| @kanzure | developers will be given more general purpose platforms to work on, though | 00:22 |
| jonathanc | in the 80s there really were just a few very popular architectures like I mentioned (6805, 8051) | 00:22 |
| @kanzure | there's no way that people are going to voluntarily develop on stackless architectures | 00:22 |
| jonathanc | in the 90s there was more of a diversification | 00:22 |
| jonathanc | in the 00s there was a mini-implosion | 00:23 |
| jonathanc | ha | 00:23 |
| jonathanc | "internet of things" is pushed by the arm cortex crowd. 32 bit, rtos capable | 00:23 |
| jonathanc | the tiniest embedded chips, like used in computer mouse, is the stackless kind | 00:24 |
| jonathanc | maybe only 16 bytes RAM or so | 00:24 |
| @kanzure | if i was mass producing mice then that seems useful.. but i am not doing that. | 00:24 |
| jonathanc | well what are you doing then | 00:25 |
| @kanzure | in lab equipment? | 00:25 |
| jonathanc | everyone has a thermometer (nowadays digital) in their bathroom medicine cabinet | 00:25 |
| jonathanc | everyone should have a thermocycler as well | 00:26 |
| jonathanc | that is mass production | 00:26 |
| jonathanc | how are you gonna detect if there's horsemeat in your meatballs w/o a thermocycler? | 00:27 |
| @kanzure | for a moment, let's imagine there is no demand for mass production | 00:27 |
| jonathanc | then define mass | 00:27 |
| @kanzure | even in that scenario, i'm still interested in continuing to build my lab equipment | 00:27 |
| jonathanc | how many labs are there in the u.s. | 00:27 |
| @kanzure | n=1 "just for me" | 00:27 |
| @kanzure | mine mine mine | 00:27 |
| jonathanc | well that's useless, only the dod does that silliness | 00:28 |
| @kanzure | how is that useless. if it actually works for me? | 00:28 |
| jonathanc | "let's spend a trillion dollars on this [mainframe or whatever] and only build 1 ever, for our use only" | 00:28 |
| @kanzure | a trillion dollars to build a thermocycler or mass spec? come on. | 00:28 |
| @kanzure | for the military, sure. for me? | 00:28 |
| jonathanc | why did hackers at mit originally break into the mainframe labs and subsequently invent unix and gnu gpl | 00:28 |
| @kanzure | unix was because they wanted to play snake or some shit | 00:29 |
| jonathanc | because they wanted access to a special piece of equipment they couldn't use otherwise, because it was controlled | 00:29 |
| jonathanc | unix to overtake multics | 00:29 |
| @kanzure | i only know multics by reputation. i haven't actually been on a multics system yet. | 00:29 |
| jonathanc | if it's useful enough to build 1, then it's useful enough to build 100. if 100 people find it useful then it can scale up from there. | 00:30 |
| jonathanc | how is it open if there's only 1 ever built? now you're making zero sense. | 00:31 |
| @kanzure | that's not the definition of open source. | 00:31 |
| @kanzure | there could be one or zero built for all OSI cares.. | 00:31 |
| @kanzure | for me though, i would like at least one, heh | 00:32 |
| jonathanc | well that's an interesting perspective i guess | 00:32 |
| jonathanc | I figure, why bother to write it or create instructions if there is no plan to reuse it | 00:32 |
| @kanzure | so, are you interested in mass production because you're Just So Kind? or because you think there's a profitable business in there somewhere? some other reason i'm overlooking? | 00:32 |
| jonathanc | the entire point is reuse | 00:32 |
| @kanzure | sure it's reuse. i think general purpose computers are reusable. | 00:33 |
| jonathanc | how is anything innovated if there's only 1 ? | 00:33 |
| @kanzure | innovated? a thermocycler is hardly that.. | 00:33 |
| @kanzure | blah i need to stop talking about thermocyclers anyway. those things are the lamest shit in the lab anyway. | 00:33 |
| @kanzure | part of the reason why i want to use libraries and package managers is because it means that you get to re-use the work from many different people even if they didn't have quite the same intentions in mind | 00:34 |
| @kanzure | btw it occurs to me that i wanted to bring something up to you regarding Robotics::Tecan... i think there's a yaml code execution vulnerability in there somewhere. i'm still working out the details. | 00:35 |
| jonathanc | it's possible | 00:36 |
| jonathanc | I think the compiled instructions are eval'ed in the end | 00:36 |
| jonathanc | that is the least of the worries | 00:36 |
| @kanzure | heh. i know it probably doesn't see high use, but it's better safe than sorry, etc.. | 00:36 |
| jonathanc | bigger concern is someone controlling the arm accidentally and running it into something which damages it, or damages people | 00:36 |
| @kanzure | yes. | 00:37 |
| @kanzure | i would also worry about people downloading yaml config files from the internetz and just running them without reviewing. | 00:37 |
| jonathanc | what to do when I integrate a centrifuge part and the lid fails to lock or the user sets the speed too high or etc. it's bad news | 00:37 |
| @kanzure | i know it probably doesn't happen at all at the moment, but again... | 00:37 |
| jonathanc | so max brought in some spectrophotometers | 00:38 |
| @kanzure | in fact, maybe there should be key signing or something. "warning, this config file has not been reviewed by anyone, go fuck yourself". | 00:38 |
| jonathanc | i'll probably integrate them next | 00:38 |
| @kanzure | good | 00:38 |
| @kanzure | nmz787 has been wanting something like that | 00:38 |
| @kanzure | we started on a python library to read from random spectrophotometers | 00:39 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/python-spectrometers | 00:39 |
| @kanzure | doesn't do anything interesting | 00:39 |
| @kanzure | if you have the chops to dump ROM found onboard, that would be awesome too. i really want to do more teardowns of these expensive devices. | 00:39 |
| jonathanc | I'd like to rewrite my entire perl codebase in python one of these days | 00:39 |
| jonathanc | there was a guy who started emailing me roms from the various Tecan controller boards | 00:40 |
| @kanzure | awesome, can i have a look? | 00:40 |
| jonathanc | however, these are all old CPU's no longer worth bothering with | 00:40 |
| jonathanc | I think Z80 or so | 00:40 |
| @kanzure | i've been doing shitloads of z80 reverse engineering dude | 00:40 |
| @kanzure | i presented this last night http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokered/crystal/aha-pokemon-crystal.odp | 00:41 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal | 00:41 |
| jonathanc | there's no point, either use it as is with the exisitng command set, or toss it and replace with a new controller wired to the motors. | 00:41 |
| @kanzure | it's a compiling version of pokemon crystal source code | 00:41 |
| @kanzure | i also wrote a z80 disassembler in that git repo | 00:41 |
| @kanzure | ah well i'm also just curious about laughing at their mistakes | 00:42 |
| @kanzure | i am a very unforgiving critic | 00:42 |
| jonathanc | dude what's with that call graph, yikes | 00:43 |
| jonathanc | spaghetti code or what | 00:43 |
| @kanzure | code is fucking awful | 00:43 |
| @kanzure | interns, man. | 00:43 |
| @kanzure | this is why the games were so buggy. | 00:44 |
| jonathanc | regardless it is better to replace the biorobotics boards if desired | 00:45 |
| @kanzure | oh sure | 00:45 |
| @kanzure | yeah i am surprised anyone trusts the default software on these things | 00:45 |
| jonathanc | even a PIC24 is killer replacement for Z80 | 00:45 |
| jonathanc | the important parts to disassemble if any, would be the motor calibration routines | 00:46 |
| jonathanc | since there is probably a lot of design optimization there from emperical testing | 00:46 |
| @kanzure | the clusters in that call graph are different parser engines. for example the text on screen is blitted from a tileset with different commands/bytes, so all the branching is just lots of switch/if handling. | 00:46 |
| @kanzure | anyway, the ROMs would be cool to poke at, just saying.. | 00:49 |
| @kanzure | i also would be happy to help you with porting to python | 00:49 |
| @kanzure | and i would also be interested in helping with any of the spectrometer formats | 00:49 |
| jonathanc | there's multiple ports on one of the units. "i/o port" which is old ibm/pc keyboard type connector, centronics port maybe for line printer, serial port, and "expansion port" which is proprietary 12 pin connector or so. will have to see what comes out of the serial port. | 00:50 |
| @kanzure | in some cases you can torrent the windows software first or use hyperterminal or w/e to see what it's transmitting | 00:51 |
| jonathanc | alternatively it is not unheard of to wire into the display panel and steal the display information and wire into the membrane keypad to fake user inputs. | 00:51 |
| jonathanc | oh good idea | 00:51 |
| jonathanc | or, just remove the circuit board completely, replace with new board with bluetooth which controls the mechanical stuff | 00:52 |
| jonathanc | it's amazing how big this equipment is, when most of the case is empty space inside | 00:52 |
| @kanzure | can you hear your own echo | 00:52 |
| jonathanc | maybe you should present at SLAS conference in SD in 2014 | 00:53 |
| @kanzure | what should i present? | 00:53 |
| jonathanc | lots of topics covered there. 3d printing or new types of liquid handling is always a big topic. | 00:54 |
| jonathanc | 3d printing in the sense of not printing, but using the device as sample pick/place | 00:55 |
| jonathanc | it is an industry conference so is more focused than the academics | 00:56 |
| jonathanc | interesting app note: wireless temperature sensing, uses under 100 instructions http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00850a.pdf | 00:56 |
| -!- klafka_ [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:04 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 01:05 | |
| -!- jonathanc [~jonathanc@wsip-98-174-141-194.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] | 01:19 | |
| -!- klafka_ [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:22 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:23 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 01:27 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:30 | |
| archels | kanzure: do you know anything about NURBS in CAD? Any ubiquitous standards? | 01:55 |
| @kanzure | i know many things about nurbs in cad | 01:59 |
| @kanzure | i also know that i am not very good at implementing nurbs intersection algorithms | 01:59 |
| archels | well that does sound like a pain | 01:59 |
| archels | I am going to argue for a neuron morphology standard in terms of NURBS (or an extensions thereof) | 02:00 |
| @kanzure | take a look at opennurbs | 02:00 |
| @kanzure | the intersection portions of the opennurbs library are proprietary but the other parts are open source | 02:00 |
| archels | bastards. | 02:01 |
| @kanzure | opencascade has some custom brep things with open source intersection stuff, but the downside is that it's opencascade and therefore the source code is unreadable and unmaintainable. however, it works. | 02:01 |
| archels | well, the problem with NURBS is that you can't really join together separate NURBS | 02:01 |
| @kanzure | another option is sisl | 02:01 |
| archels | oh ya, I've been in touch with the SINTEF guys | 02:02 |
| @kanzure | sure you can. lots of people use a "wings" data structure for stitching nurbs surfaces together. | 02:02 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/ | 02:03 |
| archels | yes, but that requires lofting both NURBS to have the same number of knots. So if you want to join two dozen surfaces, all with different knot vectors, you'll end up with a zillion knots/control points | 02:03 |
| archels | Thomas Hughes, there's another bastard right there. Has an apparently great framework/library for locally refinable NURBS (which avoid this problem ^), but he commercialised instead of open sourced it. | 02:05 |
| @kanzure | on an unrelated note, have you looked at https://github.com/kanzure/netmorph | 02:07 |
| archels | oh, that's Randall's abandoned project isn't it | 02:07 |
| @kanzure | well i'm sure there's other projects he's abandoned if that would make you feel better heh | 02:08 |
| archels | I should probably mention it in my talk. thanks | 02:09 |
| @kanzure | there are some youtube videos too | 02:09 |
| archels | Unlike | 02:10 |
| archels | previous work which considers primarily the problem of fitting a | 02:10 |
| archels | single B-spline patch, our goal is to directly reconstruct a surface of | 02:10 |
| archels | arbitrary topological type. We must therefore define the surface as | 02:10 |
| archels | a network of B-spline patches. | 02:10 |
| archels | this is the problem with NURBS: stiching them together | 02:10 |
| @kanzure | stephen larson probably has more actionable recommendations for you | 02:11 |
| archels | I don't suppose he visits here much? | 02:15 |
| @kanzure | he is sometimes in #openworm-office | 02:15 |
| @kanzure | he seems responsive by email | 02:16 |
| archels | oh damn, he's even in my /lastlog there | 02:19 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:22 | |
| archels | kanzure: your repository is missing a classic, The NURBS Book by Piegl and Tiller ;) | 02:25 |
| archels | ftp://ftp.turingbirds.com/math/Springer%20-%20The%20NURBS%20Book%202ed.djvu | 02:25 |
| @kanzure | your server is slow | 02:27 |
| archels | yes, anonymous logins are capped to 100 kB/s summed over up to 5 users | 02:27 |
| archels | I don't want my ISP to come knocking at my door telling me to take it all down | 02:28 |
| @kanzure | ok got it | 02:30 |
| archels | alright time to move a chair | 02:32 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 02:32 | |
| -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 02:32 | |
| -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:47 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 02:50 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:13 | |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-31.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 03:54 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:58 | |
| -!- qu-bit_ [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:14 | |
| -!- plur [~nonentity@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:15 | |
| -!- mutagen [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 04:40 | |
| -!- ArmilusDajjal [~safitan@75-105-12-23.cust.wildblue.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:42 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 05:20 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:23 | |
| -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.159.59.4.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:31 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:42 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@185.5.8.81] has quit [Changing host] | 06:42 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:42 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:48 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:49 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 06:53 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:12 | |
| -!- Zuben [~Bladerun@199.175.51.127] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:18 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:44 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:45 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:49 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:55 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 10:00 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:04 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] | 10:05 | |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:46 | |
| @kanzure | hah ph-detours | 11:00 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 11:01 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:04 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:04 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] | 11:04 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:07 | |
| -!- Cat4D [433456da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.52.86.218] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:10 | |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 11:10 | |
| -!- Guest96256 is now known as yeastwest | 11:45 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 11:48 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 11:58 | |
| @kanzure | http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/we-are-the-explorers-a-movie-trailer-for-our-space-program | 12:07 |
| -!- Cat4D [433456da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.52.86.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 12:17 | |
| -!- Guest17500 [~quassel@192.210.211.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 12:33 | |
| -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.159.59.4.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 12:35 | |
| -!- underscor [~quassel@192.210.211.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:35 | |
| -!- underscor is now known as Guest29838 | 12:35 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:57 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.174.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 13:37 | |
| @kanzure | "TMS320C6x COFF Linker Unix v6.0.7 Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Texas Instruments Incorporated" | 13:47 |
| -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-96-231-37-73.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:52 | |
| @kanzure | hayes commands for ardrone's protocol https://github.com/felixge/node-ar-drone/issues/40 | 14:13 |
| jmil | kanzure: do you have this file: MrKim_Sarik_Printable_Transistors_part1-v1.3.pdf | 14:17 |
| jmil | kanzure: Smidge204 in #reprap is looking for it. i'd like a copy too if you have | 14:18 |
| jmil | also kanzure: i accepted an assistant professorship at Rice University in Houston | 14:18 |
| jmil | will start in july | 14:18 |
| jmil | 3d printing sugar full time research lab | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | congratulations | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | now for the arduous road to funding.. | 14:18 |
| ParahSail1n | wow | 14:21 |
| ParahSail1n | what department? | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | jmil: closest thing to that file that you're gonna be able to find is http://openmaterials.org/2010/12/14/diy-printed-transistors-botacom/ | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | "What has happened to the mrkimrobotics website? It seems everything related to this research has been taken down everywhere." was posted 1 year ago. | 14:22 |
| ParahSail1n | jmil, call me next time you're in town, i can guide you around the rice steam tunnels | 14:23 |
| ParahSail1n | 847-641-1285 | 14:23 |
| jmil | ParahSail1n: sweeeet | 14:25 |
| jmil | kanzure: I will put the fun in funding lol | 14:26 |
| jmil | Bioengineering ParahSail1n | 14:26 |
| ParahSail1n | so are you in the tower across the street? | 14:26 |
| ParahSail1n | the brc? | 14:26 |
| jmil | yes | 14:26 |
| jmil | will be | 14:26 |
| ParahSail1n | thats pretty awesome | 14:26 |
| jmil | ParahSail1n: you work in med center? | 14:26 |
| jmil | thanks! i'm super excited | 14:26 |
| ParahSail1n | fucking parking there is a ripoff | 14:26 |
| jmil | lol | 14:26 |
| jmil | you should try parking at MIT | 14:27 |
| ParahSail1n | im a grad school dropout from rice | 14:27 |
| jmil | ah, what dept? | 14:27 |
| jmil | you go to valhalla much? | 14:27 |
| ParahSail1n | i was in civil engineering, but i did a lot of stuff with chbe | 14:27 |
| jmil | gotcha | 14:27 |
| ParahSail1n | yeah, i was there for four years, so hard to avoid it | 14:27 |
| ParahSail1n | should have mentioned it in here when you visited rice | 14:28 |
| jmil | what are you doin now? | 14:28 |
| ParahSail1n | im in bioinformatics now, a place called eureka genomics | 14:28 |
| @kanzure | ParahSail1n is busy crying that he doesn't have a printer as cool as yours | 14:28 |
| jmil | my schedule was packed. literally 14 hours a day of meetings had to request bathroom breaks | 14:28 |
| ParahSail1n | they're trying to launch 23andme for dogs | 14:29 |
| jmil | ah | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | jmil: i know one person who might have this pdf | 14:29 |
| ParahSail1n | i dont know that many professors in the brc | 14:29 |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-31.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:29 | |
| ParahSail1n | i bummed occasional cultures off people in there, cell lines, viral vectors, etc | 14:30 |
| jmil | coolio | 14:30 |
| jmil | well i hope to see you at the maker popup in houston in august. we are starting to organize | 14:31 |
| ParahSail1n | whats that? | 14:31 |
| jmil | it will be a makerspace that will exist for one month only. to stimulate interest and focus projects and project completion | 14:32 |
| jmil | we are still framing the idea | 14:33 |
| ParahSail1n | where you gonna be staying? | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | jmil: neat idea, but getting all the equipment in one place for a month seems hard to pull off? | 14:34 |
| jmil | we won't have too much equipment | 14:34 |
| ParahSail1n | i imagine tx/rx could lend the space | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | without equipment what's the point :p | 14:34 |
| jmil | will be more of a coworking space and engage the locals | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | oh. | 14:34 |
| jmil | and focus presentation and workshops | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | sounds like a normal meeting then? | 14:35 |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:35 | |
| jmil | but hopefully i will have a couple reprap builds going there | 14:35 |
| jmil | and reprap build class | 14:35 |
| jmil | things like that | 14:35 |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 14:39 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:40 | |
| ParahSail1n | jmil, so same research direction, the sugar printing? | 14:41 |
| jmil | yes | 14:41 |
| jmil | but going BIGGER | 14:42 |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:42 | |
| ParahSail1n | bigger? | 14:42 |
| chris_99 | sugar printing == printing with sugar? | 14:42 |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:48 | |
| brownies | sounds like a sweet job | 14:50 |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:51 | |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 14:53 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:56 | |
| eudoxia | kanzure, is skdb under the GPL because of that wrapper around GNU units that fenn wrote? | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | no | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | it's under gpl because we decided we wanted it under gpl | 14:58 |
| eudoxia | actually nevermind, i see you have your own unit conversion thing | 14:58 |
| ParahSail1n | package system for "real stuff" | 14:58 |
| ParahSail1n | first i think you'd need a ld for real stuff | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | gotta start somewhere | 14:59 |
| eudoxia | not that i have anything against the GPL, just curious if using another program from the command line is subject to similar restrictions as linking | 14:59 |
| @kanzure | nope | 14:59 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 15:00 | |
| ParahSail1n | def frange(start, stop, step): #this ought to come with python :( -- xrange? | 15:00 |
| ParahSail1n | oh, you need with float | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | also this was back when python 2.6 | 15:02 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 15:12 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:16 | |
| ParahSail1n | fucking loud-ass goats | 15:17 |
| @kanzure | http://defcad.org/ "Welcome to DEFCAD, operated by Defense Distributed. This site is a makeshift response to Makerbot Industries' decision to censor files uploaded in good faith at Thingiverse, specifically firearms-related files. We are hosting as many of the pulled files as we can find." | 15:21 |
| chris_99 | are they still trying to make an all-plastic gun | 15:22 |
| yashgaroth | they never were | 15:22 |
| chris_99 | they said they where | 15:22 |
| chris_99 | a one shot thing | 15:22 |
| @kanzure | i didn't realize how colorful they were trying to make their models.. wtf. | 15:22 |
| eudoxia | 10bux he gets killed by the ATF | 15:23 |
| @kanzure | the animated gifs saying "NEW" are extremely annoying http://defcad.org/browse/ | 15:23 |
| @kanzure | i think these guys are either amateurs or idiots | 15:23 |
| @kanzure | and by amateurs i don't mean the good kind | 15:24 |
| @kanzure | and their "megapack" ad is clearly using an icon registered by some windows software company http://defcad.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/mp.png | 15:24 |
| eudoxia | the browse page should look more like the main page | 15:24 |
| eudoxia | with each item being a little square with an image and the name in it | 15:25 |
| @kanzure | i'm a little disappointed | 15:25 |
| @kanzure | i think there's room for someone to write a grant proposal to NRA to do a legit version of this (there's no way NRA would dump money on this as it is, because of their questionable beginning) | 15:26 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 15:26 | |
| @kanzure | ah they are in #defcad | 15:27 |
| chris_99 | i don't personally see the point of plastic weapons | 15:27 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:27 | |
| chris_99 | is it just a way to make a gun without a license or something | 15:27 |
| chris_99 | since they're focussing on the reciever thing | 15:28 |
| yashgaroth | we freedom-loving americans are allowed to manufacture firearms for personal use, as long as they meet legal restrictions | 15:28 |
| chris_99 | wow, didn't know that | 15:29 |
| @kanzure | oops i forgot that nmz787 showed us that exact quote like a month ago | 15:29 |
| yashgaroth | once you have a lower receiver, you can buy everything else off of amazon, minus magazines and ammunition | 15:29 |
| ParahSail1n | "<eleitl> goats are unproblematic" | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | isn't having the receiver made out of plastic dangerous though, like what happens if it fails | 15:30 |
| @kanzure | ParahSail1n: an understatement | 15:30 |
| yashgaroth | chris_99 the gun just breaks in half, pretty much | 15:30 |
| yashgaroth | it won't start shooting bullets back at you | 15:31 |
| chris_99 | aha | 15:31 |
| ParahSail1n | in theory they are cellulose to protein conversion machines-- in practice, in a grass filled backyard, they will starve to death until i go out and set up a platform so they can reach the wisteria vines | 15:31 |
| @kanzure | wait.. did you go and get a goat since the last time we were talking about it? | 15:32 |
| ParahSail1n | i dunno, i bought them the first week of february | 15:32 |
| ParahSail1n | https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/108592484668460515128/albums/5838517469299267185?q=album&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS520US520&aq=f&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&authkey=CITGk5Cfu5DdrQE | 15:33 |
| ParahSail1n | its not hard to get a "90%" lower half of the receiver | 15:33 |
| chris_99 | theres a documentary on it http://www.vice.com/motherboard/click-print-gun-the-inside-story-of-the-3d-printed-gun-movement | 15:33 |
| -!- augur [~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:33 | |
| ParahSail1n | the printing thing is more of a proof of principle than anything | 15:33 |
| ParahSail1n | 90% receiver = machined roughly in the shape, but not finished enough to be considered an ffl product, but you can drill a couple holes and its a gun | 15:34 |
| ParahSail1n | im not familiar with ar, but im pretty sure the upper receiver is the one that holds the bolt, the lower is mostly a magazine well | 15:36 |
| yashgaroth | magazine, trigger group, and the buffer | 15:36 |
| ParahSail1n | 3d printed high cap magazines might be the killer app | 15:37 |
| yashgaroth | they have those, but you need to buy springs because apparently plastic makes shitty springs | 15:37 |
| ParahSail1n | yeah i imagine | 15:37 |
| chris_99 | yashgaroth, so _anyone_ could buy the parts other than the lower reciever without a licence?! | 15:38 |
| ParahSail1n | springs are pretty universal | 15:38 |
| yashgaroth | haha license | 15:38 |
| ParahSail1n | yes, they call them ar-15 parts kits | 15:38 |
| ParahSail1n | you can get parts kits for ak model rifles as well | 15:38 |
| yashgaroth | need a pretty heavy-duty press to assemble an AK though | 15:39 |
| ParahSail1n | press the barrel into the receiver? | 15:39 |
| yashgaroth | mhm | 15:39 |
| ParahSail1n | yeah i can imagine | 15:39 |
| chris_99 | that's insanely scary that anyone could buy that stuff | 15:40 |
| chris_99 | to me | 15:40 |
| ParahSail1n | lol, find a friend to take you out shooting | 15:41 |
| yashgaroth | he's gonna have to travel pretty far to do that | 15:41 |
| @kanzure | you guys don't have shooting ranges? | 15:42 |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:42 | |
| ParahSail1n | eu? | 15:42 |
| @kanzure | yeah | 15:42 |
| chris_99 | we have clay pigeon shooting | 15:42 |
| @kanzure | what's that? | 15:42 |
| yashgaroth | shotguns | 15:42 |
| ParahSail1n | shotgun skeet | 15:42 |
| chris_99 | using shotguns to shoot spinning discs | 15:42 |
| ParahSail1n | a proper aristocratic shooting sport | 15:42 |
| chris_99 | heh | 15:42 |
| @kanzure | sounds lovely | 15:43 |
| ParahSail1n | i could live without guns | 15:45 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:45 | |
| ParahSail1n | but im not gonna unilaterally disarm | 15:46 |
| eudoxia | 15:30 < chris_99> isn't having the receiver made out of plastic dangerous though, like what happens if it fails | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | you can pry my gene gun from my cold dead .. | 15:47 |
| eudoxia | lol their latest fired 600 bullets without harm | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | something something something | 15:47 |
| eudoxia | without failing* | 15:47 |
| eudoxia | i reiterate, they're gonna get killed by the ATF | 15:47 |
| chris_99 | ATF? | 15:47 |
| jrayhawk | why would the ATF give a shit | 15:48 |
| ParahSail1n | how many days does it take to squirt out what looks like at least 100 grams of plastic from a 3d printer | 15:48 |
| eudoxia | the Bureau of Fun Things | 15:48 |
| eudoxia | (alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives) | 15:48 |
| ParahSail1n | i think they got a ff license from them | 15:48 |
| eudoxia | they did | 15:49 |
| eudoxia | i was surprised | 15:49 |
| ParahSail1n | so i dont think the atf is gonna kill them | 15:49 |
| jrayhawk | not that there's much point; nobody's going to pay extra for a crappier product | 15:50 |
| ParahSail1n | probably the atf doesnt care about such a low throughput manufacturing method as plastic extrusion though a 1 mm apertude | 15:50 |
| ParahSail1n | when there are people with cnc mills | 15:50 |
| eudoxia | i don't know much but aren't these sort of files implementation-agnostic? | 15:51 |
| eudoxia | i mean sure you could print them in thermoplastic | 15:51 |
| jrayhawk | printing a mold for it would be fairly useful | 15:52 |
| -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:55 | |
| -!- willywompa [6bd9a086@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.217.160.134] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:59 | |
| eudoxia | but you could also print them in metal, with a laser sintering machine | 16:00 |
| * eudoxia 's sister needed to use the computer making me afk for a while | 16:00 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node111.19.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:02 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node111.19.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] | 16:02 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:02 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:06 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:07 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 16:09 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~C@c-67-176-51-26.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:10 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] | 16:10 | |
| Zuben | lol | 16:12 |
| Zuben | 3d printing ar15s is really a worry? lol | 16:17 |
| chris_99 | http://defcad.org/22-single-shot-firearm/ | 16:19 |
| Zuben | you can make a rifle fire automatically with a shoestring | 16:19 |
| Zuben | dear god we should all be wearing flip flops | 16:19 |
| Zuben | for the chiddrens | 16:19 |
| jrayhawk | I wonder how the ATF distinguishes between a shoestring and a trigger crank. | 16:20 |
| @kanzure | Zuben: who are you | 16:20 |
| Zuben | you'd think that a group of people supposably embracing technology wouldn't be so ready to fear its worst uses but imagine the best ways to utilize it | 16:21 |
| Zuben | I am me | 16:22 |
| @kanzure | who are you. | 16:22 |
| Zuben | does one need a title to be here? | 16:22 |
| @kanzure | i think i know who you are and i'm about to ban you | 16:22 |
| Zuben | oh lol, wow, that's rich | 16:23 |
| Zuben | ban the antagonist | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | i didn't say you are an antagonist | 16:23 |
| Zuben | that's the problem today with this system of self seggregation | 16:23 |
| Zuben | any ideas differing from mainstream group thought is bad, and scary | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | what the fuck dude? | 16:24 |
| Zuben | you clearly don't know anything | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | i'm just interested in knowing who you are. there is someone who has a similar username who i ban regularly. | 16:25 |
| Zuben | there's another zuben? | 16:25 |
| Zuben | jesus christ, fucking internet is full | 16:25 |
| ThomasEgi | +1 Zuben . i want the days back when someone had to be able to read a modem manual to get online. would keep so many idiots out of the net | 16:26 |
| Zuben | everywhere I go there's "someone like you" | 16:26 |
| Zuben | wish it were true | 16:27 |
| @kanzure | why are you here? | 16:27 |
| Zuben | I keep missing the unlucky bastard | 16:27 |
| chris_99 | ThomasEgi, i'd be interested in knowing what you think of this http://www.amazing1.com/electromagnetic-emp-pulse-gun-gen-ii-assembled-or-instructions/ | 16:27 |
| Zuben | a search for transhumanist irc leads to two locations that still exist, this ones higher on the list | 16:27 |
| @kanzure | are you zimmeri? | 16:28 |
| Zuben | never heard of him | 16:28 |
| Zuben | irc paranoia is so strange, has anyone ever studied it? it seems so based in the autonomic systems | 16:30 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 16:31 | |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, i have no experiences with building or operating marx generators. but it should be quite possible to knock out pretty much every consumer-grade electronic device with the right marx generator + antenna | 16:31 |
| chris_99 | heh intriguing, so you're saying it could actually damage the silicon somehow | 16:32 |
| Zuben | pre-consicous feeling about people we can't agree or disagree on if we've ever met before | 16:32 |
| Zuben | you know how ludicrous that would be in society if you went up to random strangers and told them you feel like they're an asshole and slapped them | 16:32 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:33 | |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, the silicon relies on very small ammounts of dotation and a monocristaline structure. there are also tons of tiny aluminum traces in a chip. both can suffer significant damage from overvoltage, permamently damaging pn-transitions or unslations of gates. | 16:33 |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:34 | |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, many modern chips are so sensitive that you can't even touch them without potentially breaking them with a ESD discarge. | 16:34 |
| chris_99 | wow didn't realise it could do that, it says it can output 2 Gigawatts, which sounds a lot to me, but wouldn't know what to compare that too | 16:34 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:34 | |
| ThomasEgi | well it's only a short burst. but it's certainly enough to damage the delicate silicone structures | 16:34 |
| ThomasEgi | they are made to operate on voltages as low as 0.7 something volt. | 16:35 |
| ThomasEgi | and such a burst can easily catch on traces on the pcb or inside the chip, inducing hunrdets of volts | 16:35 |
| ThomasEgi | you may want to read about EMI in general. | 16:36 |
| ThomasEgi | i've seen computers beeing knocked out by smaller things. like having a big electromagnet switched off by a relais , about 1m next to it. | 16:36 |
| ParahSail1n | those wood screws were not worth crap, stripped the last four of them | 16:36 |
| ParahSail1n | is there a secret to getting wood screws that arent garbage? | 16:37 |
| ThomasEgi | the sudden stop in current caused an electromagnetic burst, shutting down the computer. | 16:37 |
| ThomasEgi | and that was just a cheap magnet | 16:37 |
| ThomasEgi | ParahSail1n, wood screws? | 16:37 |
| ThomasEgi | like in screws and nuts made from wood? | 16:37 |
| ParahSail1n | for fastening wood | 16:37 |
| ThomasEgi | spax | 16:38 |
| ThomasEgi | nothing beats those | 16:39 |
| ParahSail1n | off to shoplift | 16:39 |
| ParahSail1n | get my money back for the garbage ones | 16:40 |
| @fenn | deck screws with torx or square drive are an order of magnitude easier to use | 16:40 |
| @fenn | they invented the cordless impact driver because phillips drive is designed to cam out under constant torque | 16:41 |
| ThomasEgi | phillips screws suck. they are ok to screw together some plastic parts | 16:41 |
| @fenn | it dates to the 1920's when factories didn't have good torque clutch on their assembly guns | 16:42 |
| ThomasEgi | for serious business go with torx or hexnut | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | ughhh "I'm currently at the PaleoFX Conference, and had the pleasure to listen to a biohacking roundtable with some of the world's top biohackers (pictured above, left to right, Dan Pardi, Josh Whiton, Jolly, Abel James Bascom, and Darryl Edwards)." | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | what is this crap | 16:43 |
| yashgaroth | heh | 16:43 |
| ParahSail1n | josh whiton is goatee-joss whedon | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: you wanna be the world's top biohacker? | 16:44 |
| rigel | "biohacking"? | 16:44 |
| yashgaroth | biohacking now means, like, nutrition or some shit | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | "i looked at nutrition labels and won a gold medal" | 16:44 |
| rigel | AMERICA'S NEXT TOP BIOHACKER | 16:44 |
| ParahSail1n | welcome to brand dilution | 16:44 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:44 | |
| @fenn | i blame dave asprey | 16:44 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:45 | |
| @kanzure | maybe i should start shamelessly marketing stuff like this | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | because at least it would be me marketing it and possibly doing something useful with the attention | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | but then i would hate myself because i would be busy marketing things | 16:45 |
| yashgaroth | I blame the same people who decided 'hacker' now means 'person who does a thing pretty well' | 16:45 |
| rigel | that was always its original meaning | 16:46 |
| yashgaroth | not even 'finds new ways of using or modifying something'? | 16:46 |
| @fenn | college grad with vc funding? | 16:46 |
| rigel | what the fuck is wrong with people that there is a goddamn paleo diet conference | 16:47 |
| jrayhawk | There's PaleoFX and the Ancestral Health Symposium. | 16:47 |
| rigel | that is the thing that needs to be rooted out, burnt to the ground, and the earth salted after it | 16:47 |
| @fenn | that's a very agrarian metaphor you chose | 16:47 |
| yashgaroth | very gluten-centric | 16:48 |
| eudoxia | hahaha | 16:48 |
| rigel | i feel like buying a domain name | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | blackhatbio.com | 16:48 |
| rigel | tyrannyofgluten.com | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | mine is cooler. | 16:48 |
| rigel | incorrect | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | i will compromise with glutenocalypse.com | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | or grainocalypse i guess | 16:49 |
| rigel | it could be pretty great to put together a parody paleo/gluten-free website | 16:50 |
| rigel | and honestly, i really feel for RDs | 16:50 |
| rigel | because they are constnatly confused with quacks | 16:50 |
| @fenn | RD means what? | 16:51 |
| rigel | though of course plenty of them are themselves quacks | 16:51 |
| yashgaroth | registered dieticians? | 16:51 |
| rigel | i believe so | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | > A frend suggested I read Biopunk and I just got done with the chapter that | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | > mentions you! I have been doubting whether I really should go to grad | 16:51 |
| rigel | they are nutritionists | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | > school all year long | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | ha ha ha this guy is coming to me for grad school advice | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | it's like asking a magic eight ball that always answers "HELL NO" | 16:51 |
| rigel | the consequences of dropping out of grad school are different than the consequences of not going to grad school in the first place | 16:52 |
| @kanzure | what does dropping out have to do with it? | 16:53 |
| @kanzure | i never went to grad school, so i didn't drop out. | 16:53 |
| @kanzure | can't drop out of what you didn't start! | 16:53 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 16:57 | |
| -!- jmil [~jmil@hive76/member/jmil] has quit [Quit: jmil] | 16:59 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko- [EnLilaSko@host-85-30-145-65.sydskane.nu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:02 | |
| @kanzure | http://bioblender.eu/ | 17:04 |
| brownies | yes, going and then dropping out is more prestigious | 17:04 |
| @kanzure | "BioBlender is a software package built on the open-source 3D modeling software Blender." | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | "Biology works at nanoscale, with objects invisible to the human eye. With BioBlender it is possible to show some of the characters that populate our cells, based on scientific data and the highest standard of 3D manipulation. Scientists all over the world study proteins at atomic level and deposit information in the public repository Protein Data Bank, where each molecule is described as the list of its atoms and their 3D coordinates." | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | hmm well if the output is the same (pdb files) then i figure this is probably better than bothering with nanoengineer (except for all the features bioblender seems to be missing) | 17:05 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 17:06 | |
| @kanzure | blender definitely has more 3d modeling tools compared to nanoengineer, although nanoengineer is much more focused on cad modeling rather than 3d modeling | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | "Molecular Dynamics Simulation (Elaborate and optimize protein motion)" | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | "Complex protein surface property visualizations (e.g. MLP and EP surface properties)" | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | "BioBlender uses a few other free third-party softwares (PyMLP, APBS, etc), these softwares and their licences are included in the BioBlender package. For full functionality, BioBlender requires the installation of Python 2.6, and PyMol (Free or Licensed). " | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | ... python2.6? | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.4801 | 17:06 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/BioBlender%3A%20Fast%20and%20Efficient%20All%20Atom%20Morphing%20of%20Proteins%20Using%20Blender%20Game%20Engine.pdf | 17:07 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:07 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-244-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 17:07 | |
| @fenn | this visualization of (van der waals?) interaction is kinda neat http://bioblender.eu/wp-content/uploads/interact_near1.png | 17:09 |
| -!- EnLilaSko- [EnLilaSko@host-85-30-145-65.sydskane.nu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:10 | |
| ParahSail1n | fenn, thats fastenating how square drive was invented first, then phillips drive came out later to cope with inferior driver equipment | 17:41 |
| Lemminkainen | ParahSail1n torquing out doesn't necessarily denote inferior | 17:46 |
| ParahSail1n | torque limiting drivers seems a better solution to overtightening | 17:48 |
| Lemminkainen | aye, but lock washers are just as lovely | 17:49 |
| ParahSail1n | it seems at this point there is no conceivable need for the phillips bit | 17:50 |
| ParahSail1n | "Robertson had licensed the screw design to a maker in England, but the party that he was dealing with intentionally drove the company into bankruptcy and purchased the rights from the trustee, thus circumventing Robertson.[citation needed] He spent a small fortune buying back the rights. Subsequently, he refused to allow anyone to make the screws under license. When Henry Ford tried out the Robertson screws he found they saved conside | 17:52 |
| ParahSail1n | rable time in Model T production, but when Robertson refused to license the screws to Ford, Ford realized that the supply of screws would not be guaranteed and chose to limit their use in production to Ford's Canadian division.[22][23][24] Robertson's refusal to license his screws prevented their widespread adoption in the United States, where the more widely licensed Phillips head has gained acceptance. The restriction of licensing of | 17:52 |
| ParahSail1n | Robertson's internal-wrenching square may have sped the development of the internal-wrenching hexagon, although documentation of this is limited." | 17:52 |
| ParahSail1n | what, licensing? why need to license a square? oh yeah, patents, always ruining everything | 17:53 |
| Lemminkainen | ParahSail1n what's the timeline on that? because while Ford was still at his Woodward Ave location they had an in-house machine shop manually turning all their fasteners | 17:55 |
| ParahSail1n | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver#Robertson | 17:55 |
| Lemminkainen | thank you for accommodating my fractured attentions pan | 17:57 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:20 | |
| -!- willywompa [6bd9a086@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.217.160.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 18:37 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:56 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: arma3] | 19:02 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:06 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204.101.190.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 20:11 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node138.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:46 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node138.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] | 20:46 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:46 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:03 | |
| -!- Thorbinator [~Thorbinat@66-237-51-34.starstream.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:11 | |
| -!- lichen_ [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:22 | |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 21:24 | |
| -!- lichen_ is now known as lichen | 21:26 | |
| -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-blbypxkwmcnswccy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:39 | |
| -!- willywompa [6bd9a086@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.217.160.134] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:08 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.162.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:20 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.162.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 22:36 | |
| -!- strages_home [~strages@98.67.163.188] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:38 | |
| -!- willywompa [6bd9a086@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.217.160.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 22:52 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:05 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@208.58.5.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:06 | |
| @kanzure | http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/chaste | 23:17 |
| @kanzure | https://chaste.cs.ox.ac.uk/trac/wiki/GettingStarted | 23:17 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1002970 | 23:17 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Chaste%3A%20An%20Open%20Source%20C%2B%2B%20Library%20for%20Computational%20Physiology%20and%20Biology.pdf | 23:17 |
| @kanzure | "Cancer, Heart And Soft Tissue Environment — is an open source C++ library for the computational simulation of mathematical models developed for physiology and biology. Code development has been driven by two initial applications: cardiac electrophysiology and cancer development. A large number of cardiac electrophysiology studies have been enabled and performed, including high-performance computational investigations of defibrillation on ... | 23:17 |
| @kanzure | ... realistic human cardiac geometries. New models for the initiation and growth of tumours have been developed. In particular, cell-based simulations have provided novel insight into the role of stem cells in the colorectal crypt." | 23:17 |
| @kanzure | "mesh — code for linear or quadratic tetrahedral meshes and vertex meshes; nodes, elements, boundary properties; mesh generation; mesh distribution using METIS/parMETIS [22]; readers and writers for Triangle/TetGen [23], [24], Meshalyzer, Cmgui (http://www.cmiss.org/cmgui) and VTK (Paraview) [25] formats." | 23:17 |
| @kanzure | "pde — code for defining elliptic and parabolic second-order PDEs; parallel finite element solvers of generic coupled systems of PDEs (using mesh and linalg)." | 23:18 |
| @kanzure | "continuum mechanics — code for solving compressible and incompressible general non-linear elasticity problems." | 23:18 |
| brownies | fancy | 23:18 |
| @kanzure | now you too can run colorectal simulations | 23:18 |
| brownies | i'd like to see the underlying PDE models | 23:24 |
| brownies | i bet they're reasonably elegant | 23:24 |
| @kanzure | hmmm to take the bet or to not take the bet | 23:24 |
| @kanzure | https://chaste.cs.ox.ac.uk/trac/browser/trunk/pde/src/problem/AbstractLinearParabolicPdeSystemForCoupledOdeSystem.hpp | 23:25 |
| @kanzure | "d/dt (u_i) = div (D(x) grad (u_i)) + f_i (x, u_0, ..., u_{p-1}, v_0, ..., v_{q-1}), i=0,...,p-1." | 23:25 |
| @kanzure | could be worse | 23:25 |
| @kanzure | oh look they even have tests of their testing system https://chaste.cs.ox.ac.uk/trac/browser/trunk/pde/test | 23:26 |
| brownies | academic code that's actually well-architected? | 23:27 |
| brownies | miracle of miracles | 23:27 |
| @kanzure | that's disturbing. | 23:35 |
| @kanzure | if academics were actually capable of writing usable code then something terrible might happen | 23:36 |
| brownies | heh | 23:38 |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-24-21-206-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] | 23:41 | |
| @kanzure | http://epmv.scripps.edu/ "We have developed an open-source plug-in, embedded Python Molecular Viewer (ePMV), that runs molecular modeling software directly inside of professional 3D animation applications (hosts) to provide simultaneous access the capabilities of all of the systems. Uniting host and scientific algorithms into a single interface allows users from varied backgrounds to assemble professional quality visuals and to perform ... | 23:46 |
| @kanzure | ... computational experiments with relative ease." | 23:46 |
| -!- OldCoder_ [~OldCoder_@209.237.22.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:47 | |
| @kanzure | "ePMV is free and the ePMV plugin currently supports: Cinema4D 11.5 12, 13, 14™ , Blender 2.49, 2.58 & 2.60, Autodesk Maya 2011, 2012, 2013™, Autodesk 3ds Max 2013™ With the help of developers like you, this list can easily extend to include Houdini, RealFlow, SoftImage XSI (PySoftimage), Modo, and many others.." | 23:49 |
| @kanzure | not as helpful if you have to pay $20,000/seat to see your proteins | 23:49 |
| brownies | better be some damned fascinating proteins | 23:49 |
| @kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qHtp4ehseA | 23:57 |
| @kanzure | .title | 23:57 |
| yoleaux | ePMV Intro: molecular modeling in C4D. (4 min. introduction to the embedded Python Molecular Viewer) - YouTube | 23:57 |
| --- Log closed Sun Mar 31 00:00:21 2013 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
