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| @kanzure | i think plosone.org is having some problems. | 00:32 |
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| @kanzure | archels: haha NEURON training courses are $1350/person. that's crazy. | 00:34 |
| @kanzure | i wonder if that's a single day of training. what are they going to teach, the grammar rules for the model files? | 00:37 |
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| archels | kanzure: yeah, their pricing is crazy. | 01:57 |
| archels | I think the course is 3 days or so | 01:57 |
| archels | at least all the bigshots are there, Carnevale, Hines and Sejnowski | 01:57 |
| archels | but the price makes it rather unaccessible to PhD candidates or below | 01:58 |
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| @kanzure | :sob: my sister wants to go into.... bioethics. | 07:16 |
| ThomasEgi | ethics... | 07:36 |
| ThomasEgi | i fell your pain kanzure ... my two sisters both became teachers. | 07:36 |
| @kanzure | are they good teachers? | 07:36 |
| ThomasEgi | well... one left the country already^ the other one teaches music | 07:37 |
| archels | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/93WR00929/pdf | 07:45 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c8f9aebf96e384d7b1e273e8cf4bb35.txt | 07:45 |
| archels | s.prop1="ACCESS DENIED" | 07:46 |
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| @kanzure | s.prop2="PUBLICATION_OUTSIDE_OF_LICENSE_PERIOD" | 07:48 |
| @kanzure | what a poor way of saying access denied. | 07:49 |
| @kanzure | also the s.propN numbers are not sorted corretly. | 07:49 |
| @kanzure | *correctly | 07:49 |
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| @kanzure | http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:64977 | 08:01 |
| @kanzure | .title | 08:01 |
| yoleaux | Adjustable Volume Straw Pipette by kwalus - Thingiverse | 08:01 |
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| @ParahSailin | bio.ethics | 08:17 |
| @kanzure | the usenet group? | 08:19 |
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| @kanzure | dunnp: welcome | 08:32 |
| dunnp | hi kanzure | 08:32 |
| @kanzure | dunnp: do you have a rom dump of the illumina machine you were poking at? | 08:32 |
| dunnp | no | 08:32 |
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| @ParahSailin | gaiix? | 08:35 |
| dunnp | yep | 08:43 |
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| @ParahSailin | most poeple wouldnt risk messing up warranty on a gaiix they lease | 09:56 |
| @kanzure | that's been the case on most of the equipment i've been trying to get my hands on | 09:58 |
| @kanzure | people are terrified of giving me a ROM dump for basically every piece of equipment | 09:58 |
| @ParahSailin | is there a somewhat universal procedure for dumping rom of a flash memory chip? | 10:00 |
| ThomasEgi | ParahSailin, find the datasheet, read it, wire the chip up, dump it. | 10:01 |
| @kanzure | also, sometimes it's not a flash memory chip and it might be easier ("connect to IDE, mount"). | 10:01 |
| @ParahSailin | i have a friend working at illumina | 10:01 |
| @ParahSailin | well, former coworker | 10:01 |
| @ParahSailin | i doubt he'd be able to help though | 10:02 |
| @kanzure | if someone has access to a chip then it might be cheaper to just mail it to someone to do the dump | 10:02 |
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| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0531513102002017 | 10:06 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20RoySherrington%20hypothesis%3A%20facts%20and%20surmises.txt | 10:06 |
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| @ParahSailin | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=272802&_user=1694017&_pii=S0531513102002017&_check=y&_origin=article&_zone=toolbar&_coverDate=2002--31&view=c&originContentFamily=serial&wchp=dGLbVlB-zSkzk&pid=1-s2.0-S0531513102002017-main.pdf&_valck=1&md5=23f518bfdc5bcb2b2b978a687a88155d&ie=/sdarticle.pdf | 10:13 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/aa8efefd54a1701701b8a09f1528064a.txt | 10:13 |
| @kanzure | pleh | 10:14 |
| @kanzure | maybe i should give paperbot an article request queue. | 10:14 |
| @kanzure | i would also like some way to categorize/file/organize the papers it downloads other than just dumping a pdf into a folder with a thousand other pdfs. | 10:14 |
| chris_99 | anyone seen these videos before of fish in space http://cosmo.ric.u-tokyo.ac.jp/SPACEMEDAKA/IML2video/e/vchap5E/vchap5_E.html ? i'm wondering if theres an air bubble in there tank | 10:15 |
| @ParahSailin | kanzure: i kinda like being able to browse them | 10:15 |
| @kanzure | how about the pdfs get organized into folders, but symlinks in a giant folder still | 10:16 |
| @ParahSailin | organize them by what? | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | dunno yet. i was thinking paperbot could be told to tag the previously-fetched paper with an extra command, like ".tag <id> biology molecular-biology chromatography colon-chromotography ass-filtration ass-packing" | 10:19 |
| @ParahSailin | make them tag beforehand | 10:21 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196890402001693 (air conditioning, water, cold storage, storage) | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | like that? | 10:22 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Adsorption%20cold%20storage%20system%20with%20zeolitewater%20working%20pair%20used%20for%20locomotive%20air%20conditioning.pdf | 10:22 |
| @ParahSailin | yeah, maybe even run the text of the paper through smmry.com | 10:24 |
| @kanzure | uhh that sounds highly untrustable. can you show me a representative sample you like? | 10:25 |
| @ParahSailin | and then check the tags they put against that digest, to make sure they are giving you yourself information before you give them the paper | 10:26 |
| @kanzure | how can you add tags before you read the paper, though? | 10:26 |
| @ParahSailin | or verify "work" some other simple way | 10:26 |
| @ParahSailin | whenever i land on a paper, i know what i put into google scholar to get there and have a decent idea of the topic | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | we should just rename this channel to ##existentialtaggingsupport | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | that's usually true for me as well | 10:27 |
| @ParahSailin | you don't need them to get all the tags "correct", but i'd expect them to get some of them right | 10:29 |
| superkuh | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v9/n3/full/nphys2541.html | 10:29 |
| paperbot | HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v9/n3/pdf/nphys2541.pdf | 10:29 |
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| @ParahSailin | for nature, it gives you subject tags there, so paperbot might automatically grab tags for certain publishers | 10:31 |
| @kanzure | zotero returns that data in a json blob to paperbot | 10:32 |
| @kanzure | i just don't do anything with it | 10:32 |
| @kanzure | and any time there's a "raw dump" it means that zotero has failed me and it's falling back on some custom python (which does not extract metadata like zotero does) | 10:32 |
| @ParahSailin | you should add up and downvotes to it too, to gamify it with internet points | 10:34 |
| @ParahSailin | even put comments in | 10:36 |
| @ParahSailin | hell, just make reddit | 10:36 |
| @kanzure | i think i know how to satisfy you-- just alt-tab back to reddit. | 10:36 |
| @ParahSailin | well, i think if you want to make it like a collaborative library, you need to mine user brainpower somehow | 10:37 |
| @kanzure | what is a "collaborative library" | 10:37 |
| @ParahSailin | i dont have logging enabled, but i recall you saying something to that effect | 10:38 |
| @ParahSailin | when i was talking about making paperbot a bitcoin hidden service | 10:39 |
| @kanzure | 14:15 < Juul> kanzure, hah! maybe connect it to a tor hidden service where people can submit IP from big biotech | 10:40 |
| @kanzure | 18:08 <@kanzure> afaik nobody is watermarking images with hidden messages at this point | 10:40 |
| @kanzure | 18:02 < kanzure> not quite, we are missing lots of details hidden in academic journals | 10:40 |
| @kanzure | bleh whatever | 10:42 |
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| @ParahSailin | if you want to make it more browseable by topic rather than a datadump, milk the users for the information | 10:43 |
| @ParahSailin | its useful enough as it is as a datadump | 10:46 |
| @ParahSailin | i think it would be hard to make paper search better than google scholar | 10:47 |
| @kanzure | microsoft tried but their implementation sucks.. it doesn't even link to pdfs they've found. | 10:47 |
| @ParahSailin | it might be fun to try though | 10:47 |
| @ParahSailin | but theoretically possible to make it better than google scholar | 10:48 |
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| @ParahSailin | because you are prepared to offer something google does not, climbing the paywall, and in exchange, you could get human curation service from them | 10:49 |
| @kanzure | zotero gives much better metadata than a person ever will | 10:54 |
| @ParahSailin | i can believe that | 10:54 |
| @kanzure | google scholar has direct access to all publishers because of various agreements with the publishers | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | it's based on ip address authentication | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | this is why google's ip addresses are sometimes in the watermarks in the excerpt text (they aren't filtering out watermarks from their excerpts). | 10:56 |
| @ParahSailin | yeah, what im saying is that you can offer free papers that otherwise your users would not be able to access, in exchange for metadata of unknown value | 10:56 |
| @ParahSailin | or bitcoin | 10:57 |
| ua_ | kanzure: there was this idea of android app downloading all the papers from within university networks and uploading it all somewhere | 11:18 |
| @kanzure | yes? | 11:19 |
| ua_ | i mean just an idea, is anyone doing something like that? | 11:20 |
| ua_ | they wont block access for universities neither ban 1000s of users | 11:21 |
| ua_ | also rooting phones/tablets and changing MACs on em | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | they regularly do and will block access to universities | 11:24 |
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| @kanzure | nobody has deployed a mobile paper-fetching proxy yet. | 11:25 |
| ua_ | it would be nice to just take it all from them | 11:26 |
| @kanzure | suppose that a certain someone already has | 11:27 |
| @kanzure | i'm just hypothesizing here | 11:27 |
| @kanzure | if someone already has, where the hell would such a person put it | 11:27 |
| ua_ | freenet? torrents? design something in between... | 11:29 |
| @kanzure | if torrents would work then why is nobody else seeding library genesis? | 11:29 |
| @ParahSailin | tor hidden service might be most feasible way to do it | 11:30 |
| ua_ | something like torrent based freenet-like storage | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | tor for what though? is someone going to be backing it up? | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | who in particular? i've asked around. nobody has this much storage and nobody is willing to setup the capacity. | 11:30 |
| ua_ | i mean freenet architecture | 11:30 |
| @ParahSailin | you host web server, and hide its location as a .onion | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | i'm not particularly interested in the costs involved in that | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | S3 gets really expensive per terabyte | 11:31 |
| ua_ | freenet has block that are there forever | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | and hetzner is like >$300/mo for 40 TB | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | i don't think freenet is going to be able to handle 50 TB of pdfs | 11:31 |
| @ParahSailin | where's diyhpl.us hosted now? | 11:31 |
| @ParahSailin | s3? | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | a university. | 11:32 |
| ua_ | yea but something built on top of torrent could | 11:32 |
| @kanzure | torrenting requires users willing to seed. so far i see no evidence of anyone willing to seed anything of large size. | 11:32 |
| @kanzure | library genesis, man. it basically disproves the torrenting idea. | 11:32 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, guess that's because the average joe's upstream is only 1/10th of the upload | 11:32 |
| @ParahSailin | you could host the tor hidden server on that university box until it becomes unfeasible | 11:33 |
| @ParahSailin | i dont see a reason to store terabytes though | 11:33 |
| @kanzure | i don't think someone should store illicit activities on a server like that | 11:33 |
| @kanzure | especially one that is provided graciously for open source projects | 11:33 |
| @ParahSailin | ah ok | 11:33 |
| @kanzure | anyway, i don't see what the point is. hosting it at a university is not a good solution because university people can confiscate boxen. | 11:34 |
| @kanzure | there needs to be significant distributed storage capacity for full collections of illicit science | 11:36 |
| @kanzure | in the range of 10-50 TB each | 11:36 |
| @kanzure | and it would be dumb if this collection becomes incomplete just because one seeder stopped seeding some portion. | 11:36 |
| ua_ | lets build disyributed storage on top of torrent | 11:36 |
| @kanzure | fuck you, buy hard drives | 11:37 |
| ua_ | no, RAID on torrents man | 11:37 |
| @kanzure | "if you build it they will come" is wrong. it just doesn't happen like that. you really need to buy the storage you need for yourself. people with capacity wont magically appear. | 11:38 |
| @kanzure | i'm off to an austin/biohacking meet. | 11:45 |
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| @ParahSailin | lol who care about reproducible pipetting-- what i need to know is how to pipette to get the results that are publishable or get grants | 12:30 |
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| @kanzure | "To give you a sense, he has 10,000 independent movies (examples here) of both wild type and mutant worms moving around that have been segmented and digitized. From this digitization, he has extracted hundreds of features about the movement of these worms, from a few minutes to several hours. He is happy to make these data available (raw and processed) as long as we cite him (not a problem in our community). " | 14:01 |
| @kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/user/wormbehavior | 14:02 |
| @kanzure | http://wormbehavior.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/index.php | 14:02 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.pnas.org/content/110/2/791.short | 14:02 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20dictionary%20of%20behavioral%20motifs%20reveals%20clusters%20of%20genes%20affecting%20Caenorhabditis%20elegans%20locomotion.pdf | 14:02 |
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| nmz787 | how was the biohack meetup? | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | it was just me hanging out with john and one other guy. | 14:03 |
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| HEx1 | people seeded the jstor torrent | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | pfft after like two years | 14:11 |
| HEx1 | admittedly that was just a few dozen GB but the interest is there | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | has there been any multi-terabyte torrent or collection of torrents that have had >50 seeders? | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | *and continue to have >50 seeders | 14:12 |
| HEx1 | an academic warez repository badly needs doing. I'd help, although my pipe is thin currently | 14:12 |
| HEx1 | I'd not heard of library genesis. maybe nobody else had either? | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | i find it hard to believe that nobody knows about library genesis | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | hm. | 14:13 |
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| HEx1 | the issue with this is storage not bandwidth (unless you count bandwidth to ensure it's sufficiently replicated). most of the content will be read only rarely | 14:14 |
| HEx1 | so a bunch of people with thin pipes might even work | 14:16 |
| HEx1 | how large do you estimate a full collection would be? | 14:19 |
| HEx1 | "(19:36:09) kanzure: in the range of 10-50 TB each" <-- is this a significant proportion of the size or merely a small fraction? | 14:20 |
| superkuh | I think more people would seed single, or a few, torrents of libgen (r_xxxxxx) if they could see easily how many seeders were on each. | 14:20 |
| superkuh | Rather than suggesting people use a random number generator or whatever. | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | are there torrent clients written purely in client-side javascript? | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | i've thought about having a web site stored purely in torrent-sphere | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | where each user gets all the images and such from torrents it downloads on the fly | 14:22 |
| HEx1 | AFAIK few torrent clients are designed to allow you to try to keep a large collection of torrents alive by selectively seeding needy ones | 14:23 |
| HEx1 | nmz787: the problem with that is that browsers don't easily allow either receiving incoming connections or speaking arbitrary protocols to arbitrary hosts. even websockets doesn't help much here | 14:24 |
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| @kanzure | HEx1: there are some websockets things that let you connect to a torrent server that speaks websockets. | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | HEx1: 50 TB would get you a majority of published science. | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | i would estimate at least 90% of pdfs | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | superkuh: doesn't the tracker do that? | 14:30 |
| superkuh | Do you know where I can find that information then? | 14:30 |
| superkuh | Without loading all thousand or whatever torrents? | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | no i don't, i was hoping you would know. | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | i don't remember the torrent protocol too well. it might be possible to receive information about the number of seeders by pretending to be a leecher. then this would be rolled up into a small website that i'd force others to look at when they want to choose which portions to seed. | 14:32 |
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| HEx1 | this is all assuming you *have* a tracker. they're kinda deprecated in favour of the DHT nowadays, which makes finding such numbers harder | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | part of the problem is that nobody wants to seed some random libgen torrent because they probably only want a few things from a few different torrents (and plus, they can't seed all of them because of their limited storage capacity). | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | well, i forget whether or not libgen is announced on a specific tracker. | 14:34 |
| HEx1 | there is only one TPB hit for "library genesis" and none for "libgen". where should I be looking? | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | thepiratebay.org doesn't have it. | 14:35 |
| superkuh | d8:announce42:http://denis.stalker.h3q.com:6969/announce13:announce-listll42:http://denis.stalker.h3q.com:6969/announceel42:udp://tracker.thepiratebay.org:80/announceel34:http://tracker.prq.to/announce.phpel38:http://tracker.mightynova.com/announceel38:http://tracker.ilibr.org:6969/announceel45:http://open.tracker.thepiratebay.org/announceel40:http://tracker.thepiratebay.org/announceel37:http://tracker.bittorrent.am/announceel33:http://ne | 14:36 |
| superkuh | mesis.1337x.org/announceel37:http://bttrack.9you.com:8080/announceel35:udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80el29:udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80el23:udp://tracker.ccc.de:80el26:udp://tracker.istole.it:80el23:udp://tracker.ccc.de:80el29:udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80el26:udp://tracker.istole.it:80el35:udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80 | 14:36 |
| @kanzure | oh good | 14:36 |
| @kanzure | here's 800 of the torrents http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7191627/Library_Genesis_Repository_-_832K_eBooks_torrents__dB_and_source | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | hah only 1 seeder on this index of torrents. | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | although it also includes a database dump, so maybe that's why nobody is seeding it. | 14:45 |
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| @kanzure | heh "hack-a-taq" | 14:59 |
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| @kanzure | department of homeland bioterrorism | 15:30 |
| HEx1 | so library genesis appears to be about 8TB | 15:36 |
| @kanzure | sounds right | 15:36 |
| HEx1 | you have how much of this? | 15:37 |
| @kanzure | approximately zero bytes | 15:37 |
| HEx1 | *somebody* seems to be seeing it | 15:38 |
| HEx1 | seeding | 15:38 |
| @kanzure | yeah, the original dude. | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | 8tb is a lot, but it's not 50tb | 15:38 |
| @kanzure | 50 TB was for a complete mirror of all science papers | 15:39 |
| @kanzure | library genesis just does books | 15:39 |
| @kanzure | library genesis has almost no individual papers. it has some 'collected volumes' but those are mostly random. | 15:40 |
| @kanzure | sometimes wiley publishes some crap and it gets in there, i guess. | 15:40 |
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| HEx1 | this is a remarkable resource | 15:45 |
| @kanzure | which nobody is seeding. not even me (because where am i going to get this much anonymized storage space?). | 15:46 |
| nmz787 | does it need to be anonymous, or just hosted in a friendly country? | 15:50 |
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| @kanzure | i am not particularly interested in paying for a seed server that can be traced to me | 15:51 |
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| HEx1 | maybe seeding everything isn't required, providing there are enough partial seeders | 15:51 |
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| nmz787 | why not though? | 15:52 |
| nmz787 | if i couldn't be legally challenged, i don't see any reason to be known to think it good to share scientific info freely | 15:53 |
| @kanzure | it is easy to legally challenge international activity | 15:53 |
| @kanzure | wtf? | 15:53 |
| nmz787 | :/ i dunno, me not a lawyer | 15:55 |
| @kanzure | that's not an excuse for compromising your identity | 15:56 |
| HEx1 | this needs to be distributed, avoid single points of failure and all that | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | it's easy to talk the talk.. | 15:58 |
| HEx1 | as for renting a server somewhere, it seems to me that it's a much better idea to seed stuff from boxes you have physical control over | 15:59 |
| HEx1 | do you have any suggestions for useful action? | 16:00 |
| @kanzure | no. buy lots of hard drives. don't tell anyone. | 16:00 |
| nmz787 | well i'm not compromising because i'm not sharing | 16:01 |
| @kanzure | uh, i mean, no i don't have good suggestions. | 16:01 |
| @kanzure | if you're not sharing, then you're not seeding. | 16:01 |
| nmz787 | right | 16:01 |
| nmz787 | but you're sure there are no countries that don't give a shit and also have a fiber with a datacenter and power? | 16:02 |
| @kanzure | you shouldn't rely on people not giving a shit. instead, just give them no relevant information whatsoever. | 16:03 |
| @kanzure | i've been thinking about "public acts of anonymity". it's hard to do large-scale things anonymously, but not really impossible. for instance, could you assemble a pyramid with nobody knowing about it? | 16:06 |
| Lemminkainen | depends on where the pyramid is kanzure | 16:08 |
| @kanzure | well, perhaps not a pyramid :) | 16:09 |
| Lemminkainen | hell, a flash-mob-made Sierpinski Pyramid in Moscone Center would be damn neat | 16:10 |
| HEx1 | depends on the size of the pyramid, surely | 16:10 |
| @fenn | i've climbed a mystery pyramid near bloomington indiana (quarry town) | 16:10 |
| @fenn | it's about 100ft tall limestone | 16:10 |
| @fenn | should be easy enough to do with robots, then you just need to entomb the bodies of the programmers inside | 16:15 |
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| @kanzure | ah i hadn't considered that part. it would have to be some clever way to make people bring up bricks with pulleys and then trick them into walking into a trap they fall through to the bottom. | 16:17 |
| @kanzure | or you could just drug people? | 16:18 |
| @kanzure | are there any drugs that cause memory formation to be prevented? | 16:18 |
| superkuh | Scopolamine, some say. | 16:18 |
| chris_99 | many drugs do that | 16:19 |
| chris_99 | alcohol for instance ;) | 16:19 |
| @kanzure | alcohol does not necessarily make memories not form. | 16:19 |
| chris_99 | if you have enough.. | 16:20 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432812005372 | 16:20 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Inhibition%20of%20phoshodiesterase%20type%202%20or%20type%2010%20reverses%20object%20memory%20deficits%20induced%20by%20scopolamine%20or%20MK-801.pdf | 16:20 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006899312010682 | 16:22 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Reversal%20of%20scopolamine-induced%20spatial%20and%20recognition%20memory%20deficits%20in%20mice%20by%20novel%20multifunctional%20dimers%20bis-cognitins.pdf | 16:22 |
| @kanzure | "cognitin" | 16:23 |
| nmz787 | cannabis is said to do that also | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | you guys are wacko. i've consumed large quantities of alcohol and remember everything pretty well. cannabis too.. | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | perhaps i did not drink enough. | 16:23 |
| nmz787 | yeah thats what i was just typing | 16:24 |
| nmz787 | but blackout drunk is pretty common | 16:24 |
| @fenn | so is alcohol poisoning | 16:24 |
| nmz787 | not sure poisoning matters if kanzure is trying to entomb people in pyramids | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | it was about 5 drinks/hour for 4 hours at least | 16:25 |
| @fenn | gotta catch em all | 16:25 |
| @kanzure | what if i said it was an experiment? | 16:25 |
| nmz787 | i've only blacked out once when i was prob 14 or 15 | 16:25 |
| nmz787 | learned that it sucked and never repeated it | 16:25 |
| superkuh | The popular culture references to the uses of scopolamine to defraud foreigners in columbia suggest that those under the influence could still perform work. Unlike someone that is blackout drunk. Then they could be shuffled off without memory or entrapment (in this silly scenario). | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | someone was knocking on my door, so i went to open my door and got hit in the face with hail. thunderstorms are really cool. | 16:26 |
| nmz787 | hah | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | superkuh: yeah i don't think blackout drunk individuals will be very reliable for manual labor. and obviously the less silly solution is to not use people. | 16:27 |
| nmz787 | botnet of people | 16:27 |
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| chris_99 | this looks neat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKdk2hp5uqA MHD power generation | 16:45 |
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| superkuh | Yeah. JP Aerospace's high altitude balloon program is pretty neat. As are their plans for kilometer scale balloon stratospheric outputs. But their MHD stuff and talk about airships-to-orbit is questionable. | 16:54 |
| superkuh | Er, s/outputs/outposts/ | 16:54 |
| chris_99 | what in particular is questionable? | 16:55 |
| chris_99 | re. MHD | 16:55 |
| superkuh | The energy source. | 16:56 |
| chris_99 | so that's a blackpowder motor apparently | 16:56 |
| superkuh | As in, what would it be? The MHD research they are doing is with the intent of very long (3+ days) burns on a stratospheric km scale balloon to orbital speeds. | 16:56 |
| superkuh | But the question that is never addressed is where they will get the energy from. | 16:57 |
| chris_99 | oh interesting, didn't know that was the goal of it | 16:57 |
| superkuh | You can get more details in the interviews John Powell has down over at thespaceshow. http://www.thespaceshow.com/guest.asp?q=161 | 16:59 |
| chris_99 | so what's the electricity generated for? | 16:59 |
| chris_99 | cheers | 16:59 |
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| @fenn | iirc it was supposed to be solar powered | 17:02 |
| @fenn | i just can't believe they would get enough force to overcome drag | 17:02 |
| chris_99 | just looking on http://www.jpaerospace.com/combination_9.htm anyone know if their book is good? | 17:03 |
| eudoxia | i didn't know JP aerospace was still doing stuff | 17:03 |
| eudoxia | i mean judging by their website i just assumed they'd stopped in ~2004 | 17:03 |
| chris_99 | http://jpaerospace.com/blog/ some new looking stuff on their blog | 17:04 |
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| @fenn | i don't really get why you'd want to send a bunch of ping pong balls to 100,000ft | 17:07 |
| superkuh | It is a different radiation environment at least. | 17:09 |
| @fenn | welp they're going to have to do a better job presenting the information if they want to sell books | 17:11 |
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| @fenn | they fact that they're not doing MHD tests in a vacuum chamber says a lot | 17:14 |
| chris_99 | i'm confused what they're doing looking at http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archive/SpecialTopics/orbitalAirship.html are they trying to have some kind of station in near space? | 17:14 |
| chris_99 | good point fenn | 17:14 |
| @fenn | what is "near space" | 17:14 |
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| eudoxia | < GEO? | 17:15 |
| chris_99 | between 65,000 and 325,000 feet according to wiki | 17:15 |
| @fenn | the X shaped balloon is just a stationary docking platform | 17:15 |
| chris_99 | ballons burst at around 100,000 iirc | 17:15 |
| ParahSail1n | i didnt know ballons burst, just that they stopped going higher | 17:16 |
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| chris_99 | they get massive then burst | 17:16 |
| chris_99 | because of the pressure diff. | 17:16 |
| chris_99 | afaik from looking at high alt. ballooning | 17:16 |
| ParahSail1n | i thought pressure was equal inside the balloon | 17:17 |
| chris_99 | ? when you get towards a near vacuum you've got a lot more pressure inside | 17:17 |
| @fenn | 14.7 psi more in fact | 17:18 |
| @fenn | though high altitude balloons are not fixed volume | 17:18 |
| chris_99 | in what way? | 17:19 |
| @fenn | they start out droopy | 17:19 |
| ParahSail1n | yeah i thought they just reached an altitude at which they are neutrally buoyant | 17:19 |
| chris_99 | theres some cool videos of the balloons exploding | 17:20 |
| @fenn | i think you're both right; regular balloons pop, high altitude balloons just stop rising | 17:20 |
| ParahSail1n | hm, yeah, for some balloons, the point at which they can't expand any bigger would be lower than the neutral buoyancy altitude | 17:22 |
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| chris_99 | have a look at this "Float altitude(top altitude), where low air pressure will cause the helium to expand so much that if the excess cannot escape through the balloon's vent tubes, it will burst. Helium inflation quantities are carefully calculated to avoid this." | 17:24 |
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| chris_99 | so wouldn't you need vents to stop an explosion? | 17:24 |
| chris_99 | from http://www.redbullstratos.com/technology/high-altitude-balloon/ | 17:25 |
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| @kanzure | well this ranks as fairly evil http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/9368/mobile-carrier-javascript-injection | 20:50 |
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| nmz787 | jrayhawk: fenn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbXj9R6ZXw | 22:35 |
| nmz787 | .title | 22:35 |
| yoleaux | wood stove runs a generator, produces gasoline, runs a fridge and heats hot water at the same time - YouTube | 22:35 |
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| nmz787 | it would be nice if he would release some CAD plans | 22:59 |
| brownies | .meow | 23:09 |
| yoleaux | http://edgecats.net/cats/tumblr_m7826eejVA1rqz8qx.gif | 23:09 |
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| -!- plur [~nonentity@121-73-87-49.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:27 | |
| -!- Mariu [Jimmy98@89.41.57.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 23:51 | |
| --- Log closed Wed Apr 03 00:00:46 2013 | ||
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