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| @kanzure | i wonder if my system's clock is an accurate measure of time between keystrokes. | 00:14 |
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| @kanzure | pfft downvotes for hating on EEG typing, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5624403 | 01:00 |
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| archels` | the chap below you seems to think that adding more electrodes will solve anything | 02:29 |
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| @kanzure | MORE ELECTRODES | 02:38 |
| @kanzure | don't most academic eeg setups have like >60 electrodes? how many do they want? | 02:38 |
| archels` | nah, it's usually just too much hassle for too little benefit | 02:49 |
| archels` | especially when you need to do dozens of subjects | 02:49 |
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| @kanzure | fenn: eleitl claims "Yeah, old stuff. The magnetic part is bunk." | 03:12 |
| @kanzure | archels`: if it's true that typing speed can be increased proportionally to electrode count that people would have done that by now, especially for locked-in patients | 03:16 |
| @kanzure | erm.. | 03:16 |
| @kanzure | *if it's true that... then people would have done that by now | 03:16 |
| archels` | exactly. Well, I'm sure there's much to be gained increasing the electrode count when you get to the scale of single neurons. But at the scale of EEG, nah. | 03:17 |
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| EnLilaSko | paperbot: http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/327150 | 09:41 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/25bc973598b7d995a7e818a435dded5c.txt | 09:42 |
| wsimons | What is that? | 09:42 |
| EnLilaSko | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2011.00908.x/abstract;jsessionid=82774F81A0878FD8A0AFE6678DF5CAB4.d03t03 | 09:42 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/cd65a8004c3cafa5150e4167cab74f65.txt | 09:42 |
| EnLilaSko | paperbot is a bot that takes studies and gets the full study and links it to you | 09:42 |
| EnLilaSko | But failed on those I linked | 09:42 |
| wsimons | No, no, I meant the link. | 09:43 |
| EnLilaSko | Study, you could have just clicked it | 09:43 |
| EnLilaSko | lo | 09:43 |
| EnLilaSko | l | 09:44 |
| wsimons | 0_0 | 09:44 |
| wsimons | Fine | 09:44 |
| EnLilaSko | Didn't mean to be rude if I came off in that way | 09:45 |
| wsimons | You aren't a lifter by any chance, are ya? | 09:45 |
| EnLilaSko | But it's about L-Carnitine | 09:45 |
| wsimons | Yes, it's a popular supplement among gymrats of all sorts. | 09:45 |
| EnLilaSko | I am idd | 09:45 |
| EnLilaSko | But reading about how it goes into cells, if you can reduce the amount of insulin if you take O3 and choline too | 09:46 |
| EnLilaSko | And I hope ALCAR will be able to cross cell membranes and not just go to the brain | 09:46 |
| wsimons | I'm fresh out of the gym, and it feels nice. Not sure what crossed over into the brain, though. | 09:48 |
| EnLilaSko | ALCAR crosses the BBB easiler than L-Carnitine | 09:49 |
| wsimons | Effect of this? | 09:49 |
| EnLilaSko | http://examine.com/supplements/L-Carnitine/#summary7 - Has tons of benefits | 09:51 |
| wsimons | Very interesting. And what is its natural dietary source(s)? | 09:54 |
| EnLilaSko | Don't think ALCAR has any, but L-Carnitine is found in meat | 09:54 |
| EnLilaSko | Or, it does | 09:54 |
| EnLilaSko | "Acetyl-L-carnitine or ALCAR, is an acetylated form of L-carnitine. It is a dietary supplement and naturally occurs in plants and animals." | 09:54 |
| wsimons | I must say that I'm somewhat of a luddite when it comes to dietary supplements, hence my curiosity. | 09:55 |
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| wsimons | What I mean by that is that I do not take them, on principle, attempting instead to compensate with dietary choices. I'm not sure if it's always possible, though. | 09:56 |
| EnLilaSko | http://i.imgur.com/ywyaG7J.jpg - All my shit, lol | 09:56 |
| jrayhawk | D3 is the only one that's particularly impractical to get from dietary sources. | 09:57 |
| wsimons | jrayhawk: what is its most effective source? | 09:58 |
| wsimons | EnLilaSko: Impressive, but after interacting with bodybuilders, I'm difficult to shock =) | 09:58 |
| wsimons | Because some of those guys have three, four times that many. | 09:59 |
| jrayhawk | The traditional source is from liver, though it turns out you can leave mushrooms out in the sun and they'll actually produce a pretty good amount of D2 | 09:59 |
| wsimons | D2 or D3? | 09:59 |
| EnLilaSko | D2 is fairly bad, but shrooms produce enough D2 to raise the blood levels as much as D3 (iirc) | 09:59 |
| EnLilaSko | And it also produces D3 and D4 | 09:59 |
| wsimons | I'm curious, does anyone here eat more or less once a day? | 10:00 |
| jrayhawk | When I'm in really really deep ketosis I will occasionally do that on accident. | 10:00 |
| jrayhawk | re: D3: the most effictive source is sunlight on skin; the most effective *dietary* source is liver. | 10:02 |
| jrayhawk | s/effictive/effective/ | 10:02 |
| wsimons | How do you get into ketosis in the first place? | 10:03 |
| EnLilaSko | Yeah, sun is obv superior | 10:03 |
| EnLilaSko | And have other benefits | 10:03 |
| EnLilaSko | Not eat carbs | 10:03 |
| EnLilaSko | Or eat very little carbs | 10:03 |
| wsimons | Sunlight on skin is something I like. | 10:03 |
| jrayhawk | Or eat MCTs. | 10:03 |
| wsimons | MCT? | 10:03 |
| jrayhawk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-chain_triglyceride | 10:03 |
| jrayhawk | MCTs get utilized as ketones even on fairly high-carb diets; it's a popular supplement for some metabolic disorders such as Alzheimers. | 10:05 |
| EnLilaSko | But does it really turn you into a ketosis dominant state? | 10:06 |
| wsimons | Still, how do you get ketotic to begin with? | 10:06 |
| wsimons | EnLilaSko: I don't see how that could happen, if there are carbohydrates coming in. | 10:06 |
| EnLilaSko | I could see partially with MCT, and almost "fully" with just dropping the carbs | 10:06 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah; MCTs are a nice gentle way of training up that oxidative phosphorylation pathway | 10:08 |
| jrayhawk | though that said, you're not going to get full adaptation (e.g. muscle insulin resistance) without dropping carbs. | 10:09 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2604900/ on that Alzheimers thing | 10:10 |
| wsimons | A word on muscle insulin resistance. In your experience, what is the easiest way to clear it? | 10:11 |
| jrayhawk | Eat carbs? What's your goal, here? | 10:12 |
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| jrayhawk | I mean, I wouldn't suggest doing the unadaptation by eating spoonfuls of dextrose, but just making some extra blood sugar available works fine. | 10:21 |
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| wsimons | jrayhawk: I'm curious about the mechanism of MIR | 10:30 |
| wsimons | What causes it, what reverses it etc. | 10:30 |
| jrayhawk | Oh; I don't actually know the hormonal mechanisms offhand. When you have no carbohydrate intake, the liver is forced to generate glucose through various gluconeogenic pathways for the few tissues that actually depend on glucose (most importantly the brain), which is both limited in terms of throughput and is largely undesirable anyway since it often involves catabolism. | 10:37 |
| jrayhawk | Muscles, on the other hand, can happily get all their energy from ketones, provided they aren't being asked to do particularly metabolicly demanding work. | 10:38 |
| jrayhawk | So, in deep ketosis, the muscles become severely insulin resistant to spare glucose for the brain. | 10:38 |
| wsimons | But the body positively has to enter a ketotic state beforehand, is that correct? | 10:39 |
| jrayhawk | I would sure hope so! If you make muscle tissue insulin resistant without ketones, you'd kill it all real fast. | 10:40 |
| jrayhawk | Typically there's a lag time of days to weeks of hard ketosis before you get those sorts of adapatations; this is referred to as "keto flu" or "brain fog" | 10:41 |
| klafka | yeah | 10:41 |
| jrayhawk | When full adaptation happens, it's actually sortof magical. You have stable blood sugar and cognition regardless of meal timing. | 10:41 |
| klafka | man i wish carbs weren't so delicious though | 10:41 |
| klafka | because you're absolutely correct jrayhawk | 10:42 |
| wsimons | You asked about my intentions. They do not include entering ketosis; in fact, I'd like to avoid this as much as possible. I get away with it much of the time, despite eating only in the evening, but I thought I'd ask anyway. | 10:42 |
| jrayhawk | If you're doing a compressed eating window, you're probably spending a fair amount of time in ketosis anyway. | 10:47 |
| wsimons | I've definitely hit it a few times, though not too many. | 10:48 |
| wsimons | But it's detectable (smell) | 10:48 |
| jrayhawk | I mostly notice it due to the orthostatic hypotension it induces. | 10:49 |
| jrayhawk | Then I start upping my salt intake by a gram a day or so. | 10:49 |
| jrayhawk | the VLCD community seems to treat salt supplementation as a normal requirement, which seems a bit weird to me | 10:50 |
| jrayhawk | maybe my circulation just sucks | 10:51 |
| jrayhawk | which would make sense given that i basically never do any metcon stuff | 10:51 |
| wsimons | You control it down to grams per days? :P | 10:53 |
| jrayhawk | The supplementation, yes. not really tracking the total. | 10:54 |
| wsimons | I just shake the stuff into the salad or whatever, and I'm done. | 10:57 |
| wsimons | <-- lazy | 10:57 |
| jrayhawk | Ketoadaptation is also pretty cool if you're doing low-level aerobic work like jogging; you can run off of fat stores and never hit "The Wall" | 11:01 |
| jrayhawk | jogging is dumb, of course | 11:02 |
| jrayhawk | but still! fringe benefits! | 11:02 |
| wsimons | I haven't biked in a while (weather), but it is warming up here, so I'll be getting back to that. | 11:02 |
| wsimons | My primary sport is weightlifting, though, and it's definitely not aerobic. | 11:02 |
| jrayhawk | oh, yeah, you probably want to stay as anabolic as possible. not sure why you're bothering with compressed eating windows. | 11:03 |
| wsimons | Feel better this way, more energetic, no sugar crashes etc. | 11:03 |
| jrayhawk | Huh, well, metabolic flexibility is always cool. | 11:03 |
| wsimons | Plus no hunger -- that's the biggest one. | 11:03 |
| wsimons | Small meals spread out evenly -- hungry all day long. I don't know how people do it. Once I start, I cannot stop, hands shake etc. | 11:04 |
| klafka | yeah | 11:05 |
| klafka | i'm with you wsimons | 11:05 |
| klafka | that's why i liked keto so much | 11:06 |
| klafka | it let me control hunger rationally | 11:06 |
| klafka | for like the first time ever | 11:06 |
| wsimons | klafka: on the hunger question? | 11:06 |
| klafka | yeah | 11:06 |
| jrayhawk | I like the cognitive benefits of ketosis, but it's stupidly hard to put on mass with it. | 11:06 |
| klafka | i don't know if i noticed cognitive benefits | 11:07 |
| jrayhawk | I've taken to eating a pile of egg and dextrose post-workout to spike insulin post-workout, which seems like it's doing okay. | 11:07 |
| klafka | see i can't really weight lift due to some chronic injuriues | 11:08 |
| klafka | but i would like to control my weight better | 11:08 |
| wsimons | Cognitively, definitely think clearly, but I attribute this to a steady blood glucose level. Keep in mind that the thing I do isn't ketogenic per se, not until well after 24 hours, which never happens for me. | 11:08 |
| wsimons | Weight control, as in extra weight or not enough, klafka? | 11:09 |
| klafka | i guess i can see cognitive benefits in that i don't feel hungry | 11:09 |
| klafka | losing extra weight | 11:09 |
| ParahSai1in | my body is stupidly profligate with protein | 11:09 |
| wsimons | Do you eat babies, ParahSai1in :P | 11:09 |
| jrayhawk | delicious AND nutritious | 11:10 |
| wsimons | klafka: no matter what anyone tells me, I remain firmly convinced that the human organism was never meant to be ketogenic for most of its energy, no way. | 11:11 |
| klafka | I agree wsimons | 11:11 |
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| klafka | absolutely | 11:11 |
| klafka | i preefer to use it to get to a target weight | 11:11 |
| klafka | and then try and maintain that weight via a balanced non-keto diet | 11:12 |
| klafka | but like moving into a new life situation fucked up my balance and i gained more weight than i wanted | 11:12 |
| jrayhawk | http://vimeo.com/52645372 had a nice thing looking at huamn amylase activity as compared to other apes | 11:12 |
| wsimons | klafka: And if you enter it via caloric restriction (I don't know if you do), then you also have your metabolic rate to consider, because it will be lowered if you're 1) glycogen-deprived (empty) and 2) already in ketosis. | 11:12 |
| wsimons | Which is bad for weight control, for reasons obvious. | 11:13 |
| klafka | well | 11:13 |
| klafka | you can enter it via diet change but you do have to restrict calories | 11:13 |
| klafka | i try and offset it by doing aerobic exercise | 11:13 |
| wsimons | That may help, although I've no clue how much. | 11:14 |
| wsimons | When it comes to your non-keto diet, what does it consist of? | 11:14 |
| klafka | carbs, mushrooms vegetables with some soy and mycoprotein meat products | 11:16 |
| klafka | and eggs / cheese | 11:16 |
| klafka | try for the most part to avoid refined sugar | 11:17 |
| wsimons | "For the most part"? :) | 11:17 |
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| klafka | yeah i mean unless you only eat food you yourself make with a careful eye to ingredients you'll eat refined sugar | 11:21 |
| klafka | hell most bread has refined sugar in it | 11:21 |
| wsimons | That is what I do. Bake my own bread, also. | 11:22 |
| klafka | i find that takes a loot of time and i like the taste of food and the experience of eating at restaurants | 11:22 |
| klafka | heh | 11:22 |
| wsimons | What it takes is total commitment. You cannot half-ass this stuff. | 11:23 |
| wsimons | But after a short while, it becomes second nature. | 11:23 |
| klafka | yeah | 11:23 |
| wsimons | As for taste, I guess it depends on what it is, but the kitchen is a place of creativity. | 11:24 |
| klafka | right sure but i also enjoy having other people make me food, and experiencing food that has a cool cultural context, etc... | 11:25 |
| wsimons | Yes, that could definitely be an issue. | 11:25 |
| klafka | yeah | 11:26 |
| wsimons | I'm unmarried, so the concept of having someone cook it for me, even to my preferences, is out of the question for now. | 11:26 |
| klafka | i find that there needs to be a balance between health and enjoyment of life - things like eating out etc.. are really enjoyable to me so i want to find a good balance | 11:29 |
| wsimons | I was once faced with the same problem. My only workable solution was to make a strict choice in what "enjoyment of life" really meant. I've since come to realize that the real passion was for eating tasty food, and plenty of it -- something I can guarantee for myself every day. Once that was satisfied, the thought of eating out never occurred to me again. | 11:31 |
| wsimons | But I don't do well with balancing. Too extreme a nature. | 11:31 |
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| @kanzure | 12:22 < mstevens> EY sometimes gives me the feeling of having found an argument where it's morally necessary we give him money to produce nothing | 12:22 |
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| @kanzure | when did they move to http://intelligence.org/ ugh | 12:24 |
| wsimons | "they" who | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | the individual referenced in the previous message | 12:27 |
| wsimons | And what is it that you pay him to do? | 12:28 |
| wsimons | or make rather | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | i don't. | 12:29 |
| wsimons | I wouldn't, either. | 12:29 |
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| @kanzure | hahah https://plus.google.com/118343182830485155505/posts/ERUJ8e1yKRd | 15:12 |
| @kanzure | .title | 15:12 |
| yoleaux | Stephen Lau - Google+ - People. We need to talk. This is not rooting. Nothing is… | 15:12 |
| @kanzure | oh good https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/omap/+/glass-omap-xrr02 | 15:14 |
| @kanzure | saurik: why are people assuming it's fastboot oem unlock? do they just.. not believe you when you say you used a root exploit? | 15:15 |
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| saurik | kanzure: snippy comments (FFS, GET OFF MY LAWN, Duh, etc.) from engineers at google are both more fun and more credible than comments made by me | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | haha more credible. that's excellent. | 15:20 |
| TheEmpath | I saw a guy on Reddit with the name "GetOffMyInternetLawn" | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | saurik: pretty interesting how they handle security incidents | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | which is to say.. by yelling. and googleplussing or whatever. | 15:21 |
| klafka | huh? | 15:21 |
| saurik | I have nearly finished a very long article (as usual) for my website about Glass, detailing what I did, why I did it the way that I did it, and then going into some detail about how Glass is actually a security nightmare due to some design decisions Google made that they really need to retract in the UI design (as now I just don't like them, so I am going to "call em as I see em") | 15:21 |
| klafka | is that from jay freeman | 15:22 |
| @kanzure | saurik is jay | 15:22 |
| klafka | oh | 15:22 |
| klafka | cool | 15:22 |
| @kanzure | saurik: btw did you look at their oauth api? it loooked like oauth v1, and probably has lots of xss holes. | 15:22 |
| klafka | oh that wasn't a quote then | 15:22 |
| klafka | cool | 15:22 |
| @kanzure | saurik: their google glass device registration process is something like oauth + qr code or something. | 15:23 |
| saurik | kanzure: no, I haven't. I haven't actually looked at the mirror API at all yet | 15:23 |
| @kanzure | it's disappointing. | 15:23 |
| klafka | why is it dissapointing? | 15:24 |
| klafka | because of security flaws? architectural design issues? | 15:25 |
| @kanzure | it's severely limited. it's basically a sandboxed environment. they require you to write your application code to be deployed to google app engine. | 15:25 |
| klafka | so python? | 15:26 |
| klafka | or java? | 15:26 |
| @kanzure | doesn't matter.. it's google app engine :( | 15:26 |
| klafka | heh | 15:26 |
| klafka | yeah you can't even use numpy or scipy in GAE | 15:26 |
| klafka | :( | 15:26 |
| @kanzure | klafka: https://developers.google.com/glass/v1/reference | 15:27 |
| @kanzure | klafka: actually, this is a better overview https://developers.google.com/glass/quickstart/python | 15:28 |
| klafka | aah cool | 15:28 |
| @kanzure | hah they just link straight to github, no code.google.com links | 15:28 |
| klafka | i wonder if that implies they'll kill off code.google.com soon | 15:28 |
| klafka | what there are links to code.google | 15:29 |
| @kanzure | oh sorry. i didn't look thoroughly. the most prominent links were github. | 15:29 |
| klafka | lol or php? wth | 15:29 |
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| @kanzure | test-case: hi. | 17:12 |
| test-case | hi | 17:16 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: sup | 18:26 |
| yashgaroth | lab stuff, working on making a bioreactor with jcline | 18:27 |
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| @kanzure | http://www.sens.org/sites/srf.org/files/reports/SENS%20Research%20Foundation%20Annual%20Report%202012.pdf | 19:02 |
| ParahSail1n | heh | 19:08 |
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| ParahSail1n | paperbot, http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/how-game-theory-will-stop-iranian-nukes.premium-1.517550 | 19:21 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9d3080eab3f432f6547e1db27c63f877.txt | 19:21 |
| maitake | what does paperbot do? | 19:25 |
| ParahSail1n | downloads clop from lesswrong | 19:34 |
| @kanzure | paperbot fetches papers from journals | 19:36 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 19:36 |
| @kanzure | however, it doesn't have access to every paper imaginable. patches would be really nice. | 19:37 |
| ParahSail1n | that zotero translator server is extremely byzantine | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | yeah the design is broken in a bunch of different places, like the build scripts | 19:39 |
| @kanzure | and automatic testing of zotero translators isn't fun | 19:39 |
| maitake | can paperbot fetch papers that we would have to pay for otherwise? | 19:40 |
| ParahSail1n | does the machine not have access to a bunch of nature stuff or is it broken translators | 19:40 |
| @kanzure | it doesn't have access | 19:41 |
| @kanzure | "HTTP 500" usually indicates broken translator | 19:41 |
| @kanzure | that's HTTP 500 from translation-server | 19:41 |
| ParahSail1n | maitake, now thats a crazy idea | 19:41 |
| ParahSail1n | someone programming something to server a purpose | 19:41 |
| @kanzure | server | 19:41 |
| maitake | seriously.. is paperbot just fetching free papers or does it have access to paid journals? | 19:42 |
| @kanzure | i'd rather not comment | 19:42 |
| ParahSail1n | can neither confirm nor deny | 19:42 |
| @kanzure | also i would appreciate ideas for how to make it reliably retry on different networks without asking everyone to commit passwords to the git repo or something | 19:42 |
| @kanzure | ParahSail1n: so i think using zotero translators makes sense because it means we can just use their efforts, rather than duplicating work. but maybe the cost (translation-server) is too high. | 19:45 |
| ParahSail1n | they sure have a lot of translators | 19:46 |
| ParahSail1n | and while people commonly only use less than a half dozen publishers, it would be nice to keep support for all those obscure ones | 19:46 |
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| klafka | i fucking hate odbc drivers | 20:50 |
| klafka | fuck fuck fuck them | 20:50 |
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| TheEmpath | agreed | 22:23 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Apr 30 00:00:12 2013 | ||
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