| --- Log opened Sat Jun 15 00:00:57 2013 | ||
| JayDugger | paperbot:http://ascelibrary.org/aso/resource/3/jaeexx/183? | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1034a008836d1192473c3d543f177bd3.txt | 00:09 |
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| delinquentme | why dont we have a working cheap TCDS yet? | 08:45 |
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| JayDugger | Define cheap. | 08:49 |
| JayDugger | Define working. | 08:49 |
| JayDugger | Cf. http://www.foc.us/, which retails for US$249 + S&H | 08:49 |
| JayDugger | That seems steep. | 08:49 |
| JayDugger | Do upverter or circuitlab let you have products made from schematics? If so, draw up the TDCS and order away. | 08:50 |
| JayDugger | If I've missed something obvious, or betray a stupid oversight by what I've typed, sing out. I won't learn better otherwise. :) | 08:51 |
| delinquentme | COOOOOOOOL | 08:52 |
| delinquentme | +1 JayDugger | 08:52 |
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| delinquentme | so like | 08:55 |
| delinquentme | stabilization tables for things like AFMs are real things huh? | 08:56 |
| delinquentme | like hella expensive | 08:56 |
| JayDugger | You're welcome to the reference. Let me know if it works. I'd have ordered one, but forgot that I had a semi-annual car insurance payment this week. | 08:56 |
| JayDugger | I assume so. I remember a podcast where Charles Ostman talk about similar things. | 08:56 |
| JayDugger | If you know someone working at a chip fab, or who works on equipment for such places, they can probably tell you in great detail. | 08:57 |
| ThomasEgi | 250 bucks for a bluetooth controlled one-transistor device.. is so.. meek^ | 08:58 |
| JayDugger | Agreed. If the market will bear it, then good for them. I find it awfully pricey. Thus my comments about upverter and circuitlab. | 08:59 |
| ThomasEgi | i mean. sure if you need it to fully comply with medical grade standards it can get expensive. but if you don't care about operating it along with half a dozen other devices strapped to your body. you can get away on a budget | 08:59 |
| JayDugger | Exactly. What would a one-off cost, assuming you handled it all on-line? | 09:00 |
| JayDugger | As in, 1) draw schematic. | 09:00 |
| JayDugger | 2) click make | 09:00 |
| JayDugger | 3) provide shipping address and billing information | 09:00 |
| ThomasEgi | not worth making on-line | 09:00 |
| JayDugger | Hands up who doesn't have the parts necessary in their home. | 09:01 |
| ThomasEgi | hands remain down. | 09:01 |
| JayDugger | Mine are up. L) | 09:01 |
| ThomasEgi | if you battery operate it, the most expensive part is the battery | 09:01 |
| JayDugger | If foc.us can sell them for $250, I think you could make them on-line. :) | 09:01 |
| ThomasEgi | bill of material ranges in single-digit dollar. | 09:01 |
| ThomasEgi | matter of money. | 09:02 |
| JayDugger | I'm listening. | 09:02 |
| ThomasEgi | with basic soldering skills it's easy to make one yourself | 09:02 |
| JayDugger | Agreed. I can go to work and build one. | 09:03 |
| JayDugger | I am trying to avoid doing that. | 09:03 |
| ThomasEgi | afraid of building a constant current source? | 09:03 |
| JayDugger | Afraid of getting fired. | 09:03 |
| JayDugger | (More accurately, afraid of yet another nasty conversation with my | 09:03 |
| ThomasEgi | ask for permission to solder some circuits? | 09:03 |
| JayDugger | boss about why doing something unrelated to work with company | 09:04 |
| JayDugger | on the clock, with com;nay | 09:04 |
| JayDugger | company supplies should get ignored.) | 09:04 |
| ThomasEgi | whatever. i mean. it's not like soldering iron are hard to source | 09:04 |
| JayDugger | Fair enough. I get your point that they are easy to build. I want to buy one to save my time. | 09:05 |
| ThomasEgi | time= money | 09:05 |
| ThomasEgi | 250 bucks to be precise | 09:05 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: there are many cheap tdcs things that are working, dunno what you are talking about.. | 09:05 |
| kanzure | the foc.us site suffers from evil marketing and non-existence | 09:06 |
| JayDugger | Please show me one for sale cheaper than $250. | 09:06 |
| ThomasEgi | in the end. it's just a controllable current source. | 09:06 |
| kanzure | oh please, if it happens to be $300 who cares? | 09:06 |
| kanzure | you can already build your own for less than 250 anyway, not sure why 250 is your magic number for not wanting to buy one | 09:06 |
| JayDugger | Okay...one last time. I want to buy | 09:07 |
| ThomasEgi | JayDugger, http://home.arcor.de/positiveelectron/files/controllable-cc-source.png one example of an simple constant current source. may not comply to medical standards. but if you add a 10mA fuse in series with the electrodes. it should work for simple tests and not instantly kill you. | 09:07 |
| ThomasEgi | shrug. well. then. buy one^ | 09:07 |
| kanzure | ThomasEgi: we could sell one if you want. i could also dump in money for pre-order/parts/supply reasons. | 09:09 |
| kanzure | ThomasEgi: but you might have different priorities | 09:09 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, awesome yeah i just found out aout this :D | 09:09 |
| kanzure | ah. well, if you look at their marketing closely, you will see that they are completely full of shit. | 09:09 |
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| delinquentme | soooo bio-nano-particles for thermal transfer liquids ? | 09:10 |
| delinquentme | hack on extremophiles? | 09:10 |
| kanzure | you are just saying random words | 09:10 |
| kanzure | not playing this game | 09:10 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, it's not really worth it. if someone doesn't spend enough time to be able to understand and build a simple constant current source, i'm pretty sure that person should not be playing with sending current through his/her brain without a device that comes with enough safeguards to be foolproof | 09:12 |
| JayDugger | Snobbish much? | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, why couldn't you just grow a bunch of them .. lyse them... then use all the intert compounds contained within to use as a thermal transfer liquid | 09:14 |
| brownies | isn't tdcs relatively... un-studied and unproven though? | 10:05 |
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| kanzure | http://google.com/loon/ | 13:47 |
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| kanzure | i thought someone else was doing radio-transceiver weather balloons? | 13:47 |
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| kanzure | i wonder how challenging it would be to intercept one of their balloons | 13:54 |
| ThomasEgi | get a laser, shot it down | 13:55 |
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| kanzure | well, no, i mean like intercepting the balloon and maybe deploying another payload. | 13:55 |
| ThomasEgi | oh. well good luck getting to that altitude. | 13:56 |
| ThomasEgi | probably a lot cheaper to simply buy your own balloon | 13:56 |
| kanzure | "Project Loon currently uses ISM bands (specifically 2.4 and 5.8 GHz bands) that are available for anyone to use." | 13:56 |
| ThomasEgi | and the good thing. with as few as 3 ballons connected to you at the same time, they can even triangulate your position | 13:57 |
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| phillyj | 10.1136/pgmj.74.872.327 | 13:58 |
| kanzure | i think they could probably triangulate you anyway, who's to say they don't have more than one receiver? | 13:58 |
| kanzure | (per balloon) | 13:58 |
| kanzure | phillyj: paperbot is not capable of detecting that, you should file a bug report: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues | 13:58 |
| ThomasEgi | the more distance you have between receivers, the better the accuracy | 13:59 |
| phillyj | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9799884 | 13:59 |
| phillyj | what inputs does paperbot take? | 14:01 |
| phillyj | any ideas, gradstudentbot? | 14:01 |
| gradstudentbot | The gel is streaking. | 14:01 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9799884 | 14:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e56ed0d654564c5c5be68aeef35e65a5.txt | 14:04 |
| kanzure | gotta tell it the url you want it to consider | 14:04 |
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| kanzure | stalk stalk stalk https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=akiselev | 14:30 |
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| delinquentme | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390812003012?np=y | 14:46 |
| delinquentme | drug which increases neuroplasticity | 14:46 |
| delinquentme | KANZZZZ I cant wait to hack! | 14:46 |
| delinquentme | Juul, if you wanna hack kanzure and I are meeting up in SJ i thinks | 14:46 |
| kanzure | i am not sure what you think hack means | 14:47 |
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| Viper168 | competitive wood chopping | 14:53 |
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| strangewarp | hack society. hack meetups. hack words. hack ideas. "hack" means "do". I hate "hack" | 15:02 |
| strangewarp | Professional Doer | 15:02 |
| chris_99 | hack the planet! | 15:03 |
| strangewarp | HACK DER PLARGLGL | 15:03 |
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| strangewarp | might as well issue an errata: like a year ago, I was misinformed, and thought "social justice" meant the same thing as "class justice", and talked on that theme in here for a few lines, in a manner that made me look weirdly regressive in hindsight. my opinions there have changed now. end of errata. | 15:06 |
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| kanzure | dennis: hi | 15:39 |
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| Juul | kanzure, when are you meeting up? | 16:05 |
| kanzure | no plans yet | 16:05 |
| Juul | ok | 16:05 |
| * Juul is at https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Today_I_Learned#June_15:_From_Phone_Phreaks_to_Wiki_Leaks:_A_History_of_Ethical_Hacking | 16:05 | |
| kanzure | mostly evenings. i am in town for pay reasons so i will probably only be available after hours. | 16:06 |
| Juul | ah ok | 16:06 |
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| delinquentme | yashgaroth, | 16:36 |
| delinquentme | whats new | 16:36 |
| delinquentme | tell me the sciences | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | nm u | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | NOOO false | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | teach me new thangs | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | im a blank canvas! | 16:37 |
| delinquentme | http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/article01157-virus-sight.html fuck yeah virus gives sight | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | nah I'm good | 16:37 |
| kanzure | i wonder what a legitimate alternative to garbage science news would be like. | 16:38 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, you make me sad sometimes | 16:55 |
| kanzure | sup? | 16:55 |
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| kanzure | if you really needed viral transformation of retinal cells or whatever, you could have done that years ago without the help of this particular news article. the monkey tests proved it. | 16:56 |
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| kanzure | "think everyone can agree a lab manager would go far at BioCurious, and I thought if I could find someway to support myself I could help take on parts of that role. In my mind, the Glowing Plant Project was going to help support me to take on parts of that role. Besides, it was an opportunity I didn't want to pass up. Those of you who know me must realize by now plant molecular biology is my catnip!. It is humbling and inspiring to have ... | 17:33 |
| kanzure | ... 8,433 backers who believed in the same vision as the Glowing Plant Project. A vision of transparency (online, publicly-available research data), open-source (modular parts available to the DIYBio community), accessibility (maker kit and seeds), and education. It will take a lot of work, but I'm excited that the project is pointing out and publicly shaping this regulatory space. I am now a steward of this vision which I take very ... | 17:33 |
| kanzure | ... seriously." | 17:33 |
| kanzure | "From this point of view, I have serious concerns about BioCurious as a steward of the Glowing Plant Project. Despite our efforts, we have consistently been met more with obstruction than support. As an example, the issue of an amendment to the safety guideline on plant transformation. In October 2012, I, personally, tried proposing a safety guideline amendment to allow experiments in plant transformation. The Glowing Plant Project ... | 17:33 |
| kanzure | ... proposed a more detailed amendment in March (separate from the release issue). Glowing Plant has decided to release seeds in a safely and ethically. Glowing Plant is not willing to propose safety guidelines regarding release without consulting a much broader audience. These are things Glowing Plant has discussed publicly. Personally, I think it is hubris to think those of us in this thread have the right to solely decide how to shape ... | 17:33 |
| kanzure | ... this regulatory space because that is what we will be doing shaping this regulatory space. It includes a lot more stake holders. We hope BioCurious will be a partner to help shape that regulatory space. It is clear, however, BioCurious is uncomfortable over the Glowing Plant Project's release of seeds. Glowing Plant Project understands this and, rather than having editorial control exerted over Glowing Plant by BioCurious, is now ... | 17:33 |
| kanzure | ... looking to conduct the work elsewhere. Hopefully, this will allow BioCurious to focus on a plan for long-term sustainability and the structural changes needed to implement it." | 17:34 |
| kanzure | "Finally, the Bioluminescence Community Project, Plant Biology Group, and Golden Braid Group have all been instrumental in the Glowing Plant Project origins. Glowing Plant was planning on supporting these groups by providing funds for memberships, training, and contracting out parts of the project to these various groups. Glowing Plant is currently rethinking how to support these projects and groups. I am personally sorry for not having a ... | 17:34 |
| kanzure | ... more satisfying answer at this time especially given my close ties to each of these groups." | 17:34 |
| kanzure | heh "has decided to release seeds in a safely and ethically" | 17:36 |
| kanzure | i mean, "ethically." | 17:36 |
| juri_ | methinks that word might need finer definition in his vocabulary. | 17:37 |
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| kanzure | no, i think he is just bad at writing sentences | 17:37 |
| kanzure | his grammar is all over the place | 17:37 |
| kanzure | "in a safely and ethically." is no way to end a sentence. | 17:37 |
| juri_ | still, one cannot decide on ethics. one can only set your own morals, and discuss ethics with the community. | 17:38 |
| kanzure | huh? | 17:38 |
| juri_ | I always took ethics as being the agreed to upon standards, where morals were personal. | 17:39 |
| kanzure | i don't know why you are typing these sentences | 17:39 |
| juri_ | its perfectly ethical to do a lot of things i'll drop dead before doing. | 17:39 |
| juri_ | oh, that was just what stuck out at me. | 17:40 |
| kanzure | "that" is what? | 17:40 |
| juri_ | the use of the term ethics there. | 17:40 |
| juri_ | ethical would be to simply comply with 'industry practice' whatever that is. | 17:40 |
| kanzure | because of bad grammar, you assume he has a different concept of ethics than you do? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | uh, that's appeal to authority. industry practice is not necessarily ethical. | 17:41 |
| juri_ | no, because he's discussing a field that is in development, and which he personally seems to lament exactly what-went-on, i'm saying that the term ethics may be a little premature, as there is no 'community' to decide what ethical practices are. | 17:41 |
| kanzure | uh, there is a huge global community of biological organisms already | 17:42 |
| kanzure | way way way larger than any computing subculture | 17:42 |
| juri_ | you're right, it is appeal to authority. thats how i've had ethics explained to my by those with PHDs, that take apart brains. | 17:42 |
| juri_ | they wash their hands, by appealing to the authority of the ethics board. | 17:42 |
| juri_ | I would welcome a better definition myself, if you have one. | 17:46 |
| kanzure | logs/2008-08-03.log:15:39 < kanzure> ' For the transhumanist attitude, the reality of “working code” has a reality that other assertions about the world do not. Extreme transhumanism replaces the life-world with the world of the computer, where bad (ethically bad) ideas won’t compile. | 17:51 |
| kanzure | logs/2012-11-05.log:08:09 < brownies> how ethical is my toothbrush? | 17:54 |
| juri_ | this is the same sort of logic that ends in the invisible hand of the market. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | which logic? | 17:56 |
| juri_ | you know, i'm minorly comforted that you don't have a good canned statement about ethics. it leads me to believe the difference between ethics and morals is not often debated here, which is a good thing, time-wise. | 17:56 |
| juri_ | the first statement, about hoping to create a situation where unethical actions won't compile. it reminds me of the calls for a self-regulating market. | 17:57 |
| juri_ | bad business decisions are made every day, but the market magically regulates, by eliminating any nonproductive decision makers (companies). | 17:58 |
| juri_ | regulation through selection. do we want that in producers of artificial organisms, where their work is quite likely to out-live the company? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | regarding time-whatever, yes it's because we mostly ban discussion about ethics/morals because everyone is really bad at it | 18:01 |
| juri_ | feel free to tell me to STFU then. :) | 18:01 |
| kanzure | no, it's not about hoping to create a situation where unethical actions don't compile. there are truly wrong things that will absolutely not work because they are physically impossible. | 18:01 |
| kanzure | i was just picking out quotes from the logs | 18:02 |
| kanzure | for some reason i thought jrayhawk had left a reasonable summary of the shared ethics in here, but instead it was only blurbs about self-agency. oh well. | 18:02 |
| juri_ | well, if theres a standard, other than 'what my agency will let me get away with' practiced (voluntarily of course) here, i'd be interested in seeing it. | 18:03 |
| brownies | kanzure: what? | 18:09 |
| kanzure | i am just busy being disappointed in my memory, that's all. in case it's not clear please do not break out into a debate about ethics of bacteria killing you or something. | 18:10 |
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