| --- Log opened Tue Jul 23 00:00:33 2013 | ||
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| nmz787 | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1603247?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21102164657003 | 00:56 |
|---|---|---|
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20Effect%20of%20HCl%20Hydrolysis%20on%20the%20Retention%20of%20Thymidine%20in%20DNA.pdf | 00:57 |
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| nmz787 | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.197302461/abstract | 01:29 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag1/10.1002/anie.197302461.pdf | 01:29 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bc010034b | 01:30 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fbc010034b%26pubId%3D40294010 | 01:31 |
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| nmz787 | paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo901931z | 01:33 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fjo901931z%26pubId%3D346520304 | 01:34 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1081/NCN-120039215#.UeZnzo1OSSo | 01:34 |
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| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1081%2FNCN-120039215%26pubId%3D44684631 | 01:34 |
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| @fenn | wow the vatican has quite a breadth of scientific publications http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en/publications/scriptavaria.html | 02:49 |
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| superkuh | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rds.20042/abstract | 04:35 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag5/10.1002/rds.20042.pdf | 04:35 |
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| heath | .title http://www.amazon.com/Stuff-Life-Graphic-Guide-Genetics/dp/0809089475/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268004559&sr=8-1 | 09:24 |
| yoleaux | The Stuff of Life: A Graphic Guide to Genetics and DNA: Mark Schultz, Zander Cannon, Kevin Cannon: 9780809089475: Amazon.com: Books | 09:24 |
| heath | .title http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-Guide-Genetics-Updated/dp/0062730991/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255046461&sr=1-1 | 09:24 |
| yoleaux | Amazon.com: The Cartoon Guide to Genetics (Updated Edition) (9780062730992): Larry Gonick, Mark Wheelis: Books | 09:24 |
| heath | knew about the manga guide to molbio but didn't know about | 09:24 |
| heath | .title http://www.amazon.com/Manga-Guide-Biochemistry-Masaharu-Takemura/dp/1593272766 | 09:24 |
| yoleaux | The Manga Guide to Biochemistry: Masaharu Takemura, Kikuyaro, Office Sawa: 9781593272760: Amazon.com: Books | 09:24 |
| heath | Moyashimon is easily my favorite time waster | 09:25 |
| heath | also, discovered this yesterday: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_tree | 09:25 |
| kanzure | how do you not know of these | 09:25 |
| heath | search trees for alcoholics of course | 09:26 |
| chido | I think they have some of those at Biocurious | 09:26 |
| kanzure | yes they do | 09:26 |
| kanzure | but so does everyone else | 09:26 |
| kanzure | the manga guide to biochemistry or genetics or w/e is basically cliche at this point :P | 09:26 |
| kanzure | the manga guide to ##hplusroadmap | 09:26 |
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| heath | the manga guide to biochem came out in 2011 | 09:27 |
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| heath | i had heard of the manga guide to molbio which came out in 2009 | 09:27 |
| kanzure | i see. that's acceptable. | 09:28 |
| heath | 2011 through the beginning of 2013, though, i kind of disappeared and didn't bother tracking everything | 09:28 |
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| ParahSailin | heath: interesting data structure | 09:32 |
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| archels | .title http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/nu-dpa071713.php | 10:20 |
| yoleaux | Desktop printing at the nano level | 10:20 |
| gradstudentbot | I have to order new primers. | 10:20 |
| heath | .title http://www.vagrantbox.es/ | 10:26 |
| yoleaux | A list of base boxes for Vagrant - Vagrantbox.es | 10:26 |
| heath | "Vagrant is an amazing tool for managing virtual machines via a simple to use command line interface. " | 10:26 |
| heath | 99% js | 10:26 |
| bkero | Vagrant is an amazing tool built on top of the worst hypervisor ever created. | 10:28 |
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| kanzure | bkero: yeah, i would rather use kvm. | 10:31 |
| bkero | Yeah | 10:31 |
| bkero | or lxc | 10:31 |
| kanzure | heath: i am playing with https://github.com/hh/windows-fromscratch and https://github.com/jedi4ever/veewee/blob/master/doc/vagrant.md | 10:31 |
| kanzure | heath: and probably https://github.com/todddeluca/python-vagrant but i'm still suspicious of that one | 10:31 |
| kanzure | hopefully i'll forget these things soon because i don't really like that much | 10:32 |
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| heath | http://open.spreadshirt.com | 15:11 |
| kanzure | yes? | 15:16 |
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| ParahSailin | huh, something in the php standard library is actually better than the equivalent in python | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | what's that? | 15:30 |
| ParahSailin | in python, its really hard to do the equivalent of $ derp <fd0.txt 3<fd3.txt | 15:31 |
| ParahSailin | Popen does not easily support more thant stdin, stdout, stderr | 15:31 |
| ParahSailin | in php, its fairly trivial to open a subprocess with arbitrary file descriptors | 15:31 |
| kanzure | have you tried the subprocess module | 15:38 |
| ParahSailin | yes, subprocess.Popen | 15:42 |
| ParahSailin | this is actually kinda sad that php accidentally did something right that python can't do easily | 15:43 |
| ParahSailin | hell, bash will do that in one line | 15:43 |
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| ParahSailin | i could fix this https://github.com/python-git/python/blob/master/Lib/subprocess.py but why | 16:00 |
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| kanzure | wait.. are you the one woh has been complaining about python-git problems on that mailing list | 16:06 |
| kanzure | i've been seeing lots of complaints on http://groups.google.com/group/git-python | 16:07 |
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| ParahSailin | nah im not on that mailing list | 16:22 |
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| weles | I wonder if I'm the only one who finds videos by @JasonSilva annoying... Is he on crack or something? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | why are you watching them | 16:52 |
| weles | some ppl keep linking to them:) | 16:53 |
| weles | like @planetaryresources | 16:53 |
| kanzure | planetary resources is peter diamandis and therefore not worth watching closely. they will probably do some things, but i wouldn't be too concerned about them. | 16:54 |
| kanzure | for the most part it is okay to ignore them | 16:55 |
| kanzure | also you should hang out with better people if that's the sorta links you get | 16:55 |
| weles | lol, that's why I'm here | 16:55 |
| weles | I was really diamandis's fan until he came up with that whole arkyd kickstarter | 16:56 |
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| Burninate | what led you from PR to here? | 16:57 |
| weles | from pr to here nothing. i just follow a lot of "science and technology" stuff. to here led me kanzure, after i saw him on the openworm list | 16:58 |
| Burninate | Planetary Resources appears, to my eye, to have very little to do with asteroids. | 16:58 |
| kanzure | oh you saw me from openworm? that's cool. | 16:59 |
| kanzure | i was expecting something much worse | 16:59 |
| weles | :) | 16:59 |
| Burninate | it's *possible* the people pushing it are not-so-secretly space enthusiasts, but the play they are making is for a low-latency, low-resolution Earth observation platform | 16:59 |
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| kanzure | Burninate: that's only their recent project. they had other things they were pitching earlier. | 17:00 |
| kanzure | Burninate: which is how they raised a few million dollars prior to their stupid-ass kickstarter project. | 17:00 |
| Burninate | the Arkyd 100 project doesn't make *any* sense as an actual tool | 17:00 |
| Burninate | for finding asteroids | 17:00 |
| Burninate | the physics and economics don't allow it to | 17:01 |
| weles | i think pr,diamandis and few others are just cashing in on h+ crowd | 17:01 |
| Burninate | an 8" telescope with those specs isn't limited by anything that being in space solves, not to the extent that anyone would pay to put it in space | 17:01 |
| kanzure | it's not really the hplus crowd. the hplus crowd is extremely small. | 17:03 |
| kanzure | i have seen the numbers. | 17:03 |
| Burninate | 8" is the conventional size scale, roughly speaking, where the effect of the atmosphere is equal to the effect of the telescope's diffraction limit | 17:03 |
| weles | i stopped listening to their bullshit after I found out that they want to communicate with lasers on these small ass telescopes | 17:03 |
| Burninate | meaning being in space buys *nothing* | 17:03 |
| eudoxia | weles: if you can stand silva you don't belong here | 17:03 |
| weles | why is this his fun club | 17:04 |
| weles | ? | 17:04 |
| weles | fan | 17:04 |
| eudoxia | can not cant | 17:04 |
| weles | oh shit, sorry | 17:04 |
| weles | :) | 17:04 |
| Burninate | If you look at it as the introductory product, an exercise for an organization to get familiar with space telescopy, that makes *a bit* more sense I suppose | 17:04 |
| kanzure | it's mostly promotion | 17:05 |
| Burninate | lasers are actually a bit deal weles | 17:05 |
| Burninate | *big | 17:05 |
| weles | Burninate, but they are inefficient | 17:06 |
| Burninate | How? | 17:06 |
| weles | they convert only 10-20% of power to light | 17:06 |
| weles | the rest is wasted | 17:06 |
| Burninate | ? | 17:06 |
| Burninate | I thought they were more like 1% | 17:06 |
| weles | depends on type | 17:06 |
| weles | co2 are 10-20 | 17:06 |
| Burninate | how about stronger diode? | 17:07 |
| Burninate | in the NIR | 17:07 |
| weles | they are less than 10, i belive 1% | 17:07 |
| Burninate | And how about radio emitters? | 17:07 |
| weles | that's why i don't think it makes sense to put something like that on a device powered by solar panels | 17:08 |
| eudoxia | they want to use LIDAR to find asteroids? | 17:08 |
| weles | depends on the frequency and antenna | 17:08 |
| weles | they want to communicate between arkyds with lasers | 17:09 |
| Burninate | expect a powerful NIR diode laser rather than CO2, much more convenient | 17:09 |
| Burninate | low temperature tolerant, no pressure, etc | 17:09 |
| weles | but also lower power, less efficient | 17:09 |
| Burninate | have you run the numbers on the radio option though? | 17:10 |
| weles | not, but from I learned while getting my ham license they are pretty efficient:) | 17:11 |
| weles | i just know little more about lasers as i have to program software for them everyday:) | 17:11 |
| Burninate | Ku-band amplifier - "High power added efficiency of 30%, 10 points greater than the ..." | 17:11 |
| Burninate | so let's assume 30% | 17:12 |
| Burninate | now what is the gain on a reasonable Ku-band dish | 17:12 |
| Burninate | or... too small for a dish | 17:13 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, that paper was actually retracted. | 17:14 |
| Burninate | meh, I retreat from the socratic method | 17:15 |
| weles | i will do some calculations little later:) | 17:15 |
| Burninate | The benefit of a laser is the extremely high gain. | 17:15 |
| Burninate | on both ends of the transmission | 17:15 |
| weles | but i believe radio is better | 17:15 |
| Burninate | *extremely* high. | 17:15 |
| weles | i guess i could be wrong but.. need to run some numbers first:) | 17:17 |
| Burninate | you can find more detail in the Optical SETI papers | 17:17 |
| weles | i will check that, but don't forget we're talking about a very small device | 17:18 |
| gradstudentbot | When is he back from sabbatical? | 17:18 |
| Burninate | lasers are the future as far as space telescopy - presently missions like Gaia are extremely data-bottlenecked | 17:18 |
| Burninate | and cancelled missions like the Mars Telecommunications Orbiter, the sister ship that was supposed to talk with the Curiosity rover, are sorely missed | 17:19 |
| weles | yeah, but we need to learn how to aim them from huge distances | 17:19 |
| Burninate | (and link back to Earth with a laser) | 17:19 |
| weles | lasers are the future but not for arkyds | 17:20 |
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| Burninate | http://www.roithner-laser.com/lasersystems/laser_system1550.html shows 3 mrad (10 arc minutes) divergence on a 1550nm product without any further optics | 17:26 |
| Burninate | 3 mrad side to side ~= 10 mrad^2 solid angle | 17:28 |
| Burninate | erm | 17:31 |
| Burninate | 3 mrad = 0.171887339 degrees. (3.14 * 0.17 degrees / 2)^2 = 0.071 square degrees. 41253 square degrees in a sphere / 0.071 = 581028x, or 57.6 decibels of intensity gain | 17:37 |
| ParaSa1lin | so you mean like 2.25 usr | 17:38 |
| Burninate | couple it to modest optics to smooth out that divergence, and you can add another few tens of decibels | 17:39 |
| ParaSa1lin | how much is one of those 3mrad divergence lasers | 17:39 |
| Burninate | The detector side is less constrained - you can get some pretty huge dishes - but still a pretty considerable advantage I think in using telescopes instead | 17:40 |
| Burninate | dunno | 17:42 |
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| ParaSa1lin | any good for earthborne comm backbone? | 17:43 |
| Burninate | 1550nm diode lasers are one of the three types we use in our fiber optics system | 17:44 |
| Burninate | that carries the bulk of data around the world | 17:45 |
| Burninate | '850, 1300 and 1550 nm' | 17:45 |
| Burninate | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication | 17:45 |
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| Burninate | 1550 would be the eyesafe-for-pointing-anywhere one of those - 850 and to a lesser extent 1300 would be dangerous because of where in the eye they're absorbed | 17:48 |
| ParaSa1lin | yeah i know fiber, but how cost-effective could you make free space optical meshnet | 17:50 |
| Burninate | very... if you were willing to deal with perfect line of sight, and suffer weather-related problems | 17:51 |
| Burninate | well | 17:51 |
| Burninate | "very" relative to laying cable | 17:51 |
| Burninate | not relative to buying a few antennas | 17:52 |
| weles | well calculate beam diameter for 3mrad divergance over 250mil km | 17:52 |
| weles | :) | 17:52 |
| Burninate | doesn't matter, the figure of merit is decibel gain | 17:52 |
| ParaSa1lin | antennas and radio? | 17:52 |
| Burninate | times power, against background | 17:52 |
| ParaSa1lin | isnt the FCC the major constraint in radio comms? | 17:53 |
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| Burninate | yes. | 17:53 |
| Burninate | antennas are un-fragile though. | 17:53 |
| Burninate | and cheap for point to point connections | 17:53 |
| ParaSa1lin | is there an easy way to avoid fcc attacks for point to point radio links? | 17:54 |
| Burninate | even weak consumer wifi boxes, hooked up to moderate-sized dishes, are capable of tens of miles range. | 17:54 |
| Burninate | the important bit is that both sender and reciever are hooked up to parabolic dishes and pointed at each other with +25-35db gain each | 17:55 |
| Burninate | 'fcc attacks'? | 17:56 |
| ParaSa1lin | the part where the fcc sends goons to seize/destroy equipment/put you in a cage | 17:57 |
| Burninate | the problem with the FCC would be any restriction that uses 'effective radiated power' | 17:57 |
| Burninate | rather than 'power' | 17:57 |
| Burninate | ERP theoretically limits, eg, the size of the antenna | 17:57 |
| ParaSa1lin | so the existing bands the fcc will not send goons at you for are adequately non-congested for backbone links? | 17:59 |
| Burninate | I don't know too much about the FCC's policies on unlicensed bands. | 17:59 |
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| Burninate | I'm not a ham - I have no amateur radio license to use the restricted bands, but the 5ghz, 2.4ghz, 900mhz are open to devices that respect certain rules about interference | 18:02 |
| Burninate | my notes are here - http://dronepedia.com/index.php?title=Radio_bands#Ham_bands | 18:05 |
| Burninate | choppy as they are | 18:05 |
| Burninate | for the purposes of UAV data transmission & control | 18:05 |
| ParaSa1lin | the main problem with radio is that existing RF ICs are limited to bluetooth, cell, wifi etc | 18:06 |
| ParaSa1lin | i should estimate how much an ASIC for custom RF modulation would come out to | 18:07 |
| Burninate | why? | 18:07 |
| weles | ParahSailin, you can now buy sofware defined radios that will do whatever you want | 18:07 |
| Burninate | SDR is a big thing now | 18:07 |
| ParaSa1lin | is there much SDR for the Tx side? | 18:09 |
| ParaSa1lin | i thought most of it was Rx only | 18:09 |
| Burninate | Anything too low frequency and both the gain from a reasonable-sized antenna, and the bandwidth, will be shit. Anything too high frequency and weather, leaves, etc will cause problems. | 18:09 |
| weles | Burninate, there are really not 'unlicensed' bands as in "free for all". they still have power limits | 18:09 |
| Burninate | on ERP or RP? | 18:10 |
| heath | kanzure: have we discussed node.io previously? | 18:10 |
| heath | if you're looking at switching the scraping framework to js, this might be what you are looking for | 18:10 |
| weles | ParahSailin, you can have sdr that does both tx and rx for a few 100's | 18:12 |
| weles | Burninate, http://www.afar.net/tutorials/fcc-rules/ | 18:12 |
| Burninate | Thanks! | 18:13 |
| Burninate | So still very large numbers, sufficient for a reasonable-distance meshnet | 18:14 |
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| weles | yeap, especially with a good antenna | 18:15 |
| Burninate | point is, most people seem to think their omnidirectional antennas aren't limiting, but they are actually *extraordinarily wasteful* as far as signal is concerned, and exponential increases in distance are easily practical as soon as you decide on fixed point to point connections | 18:15 |
| Burninate | and attach the right sort of antenna | 18:16 |
| weles | yeap | 18:16 |
| Burninate | without even increasing transmitter power | 18:16 |
| weles | can't argue with that | 18:16 |
| Burninate | Can non-diode lasers do rapid digital signal modulation? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | heath: it seems to use nodejs. it doesn't seem to use embedded webkit. so it's probably just using jsdom. which is insufficient for many of my purposes. even paperbot. | 18:21 |
| Burninate | flash on and off in non-cyclical patterns at extremely high frequency? | 18:21 |
| kanzure | heath: but the architecture looks okay/obvious. more people should write code like that. | 18:21 |
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| weles | well I'm not sure but I'm able to send from 1hz to 100khz modulation signal to 1kW co2 laser by rs232 or tcp/ip | 18:26 |
| weles | just never tested how fast it can change but i will ask tomorrow | 18:28 |
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| Burninate | weles - diodes can do nanosecond switching | 19:30 |
| weles | that's the main advantage of solid state lasers | 19:34 |
| weles | http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v36/i1/p29_s1?isAuthorized=no | 19:35 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=doi%3A10.1063%2F1.91303 | 19:36 |
| kanzure | someone should fix paperbot | 19:36 |
| weles | yeah someone should:) | 19:36 |
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| gradstudentbot | Nope, that's not even remotely possible. | 19:37 |
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| cpopell | Ah, welp | 19:39 |
| cpopell | saw laser diodes, got excited | 19:39 |
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| ParaSa1lin | i need some hiring advice -- how hard are times for mechE graduates these days | 21:36 |
| kanzure | no clue. | 21:36 |
| ParaSa1lin | are graduates from such engineering programs generally trained in fabrication of prototypes? | 21:38 |
| gradstudentbot | I think I'd like to try to write the paper myself. | 21:39 |
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| * brownies pokes gradstudentbot | 22:33 | |
| gradstudentbot | Don't you have anything better to be doing? | 22:33 |
| * brownies grumbles at gradstudentbot | 22:33 | |
| gradstudentbot | I forgot to make a control group. | 22:33 |
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| ParaSa1lin | well, let's see what resumes $25 on craigslist buys me | 22:41 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 24 00:00:34 2013 | ||
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