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| plur | it may be slower | 03:54 |
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| kyknos | paperbot, http://www.nature.com/nsmb/journal/v16/n2/full/nsmb.1550.html | 08:57 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnsmb.1550 | 08:57 |
| archels | .title | 08:57 |
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| archels | .title | 09:08 |
| yoleaux | archels: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 09:08 |
| archels | .title http://ddg.gg | 09:08 |
| yoleaux | archels: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 09:09 |
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| kanzure | archels: i'm p. sure that command was disabled by the kind folks in #swhack | 09:20 |
| archels | yeah, one of whom was kind enough to re-enable it | 09:29 |
| archels | but evidently it's broken anyway | 09:29 |
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| EnLilaSko | paperbot: http://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X%2812%2900199-4/fulltext | 11:55 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/421187e4d34068b9d57dda6e17f71a9f.txt | 11:55 |
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| Dantespeaks | What area of science will maximize your potential for expanding your intellect by use of nanotechnology? | 15:36 |
| Dantespeaks | Neuroscience? | 15:36 |
| Dantespeaks | Artificial Intelligence? | 15:36 |
| Dantespeaks | (be it far future) | 15:36 |
| Dantespeaks | (a pursuit of study will help connect the dots if you know the essential stuff related to it?) | 15:37 |
| Dantespeaks | (be it 30 years from now.) | 15:37 |
| Dantespeaks | i just skimmed through the singularity is near and i want to devote myself to a study relating to self-enhancement. | 15:38 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, depends, it all will be useful just in different way and it will intertwine too | 15:41 |
| ua | nootropics, you can have genetically engineered plants that produce them, you can have implants in brain that overclocks it directly | 15:42 |
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| ua | you could genetically engineer neurons to be more efficient | 15:43 |
| ua | you could create nanobots that replace you neurons but can interface with already exisitng ones | 15:44 |
| ua | but are augmented and work in totally different ways | 15:44 |
| ua | nanobots/nanomachines whatever | 15:44 |
| Dantespeaks | so in order to understand the funamentals of this better, or when such age comes about, what study will give me the edge? | 15:45 |
| Dantespeaks | neuroscience? the understanding of the brain as much as possible? | 15:45 |
| Dantespeaks | or artificial intelligence? | 15:45 |
| ua | knowing about it all and entrepreneurship | 15:46 |
| Dantespeaks | i think nanotechnology will be like a pc... designed and manufactured and people with money can access. | 15:46 |
| ua | make a billion dollars on some cool piece of tech and youre set | 15:46 |
| Dantespeaks | but understanding the self (brain) is a different story | 15:46 |
| Dantespeaks | yeah i guess making loads of money and informing yourself is the way to go | 15:47 |
| Dantespeaks | but if you want to study in detail, what would be more advantageous... | 15:47 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, yea problem with biotech and nanotech are computer power to simulate what actually happens to this stuff in the body etc | 15:47 |
| ua | i mean in the future | 15:47 |
| Dantespeaks | i guess A.I will mostly maintain the control in this | 15:48 |
| ua | nah AI is bullshit | 15:48 |
| Dantespeaks | you think so? | 15:48 |
| ua | biotech is the way | 15:48 |
| Dantespeaks | the human brain project and all? | 15:48 |
| Dantespeaks | ppl copying neocortex column of human brain with simulated neurons? | 15:49 |
| ua | no just kidding, I'm working on my own AI and don't wanna competition | 15:49 |
| ua | ;D | 15:49 |
| Dantespeaks | it all relates, but... im saying as a human being, what can i learn to maximize my chances... | 15:49 |
| Dantespeaks | ha | 15:49 |
| ua | but seriously i'm dubious about AI | 15:49 |
| ua | while working on it ... | 15:50 |
| Dantespeaks | at this point in time, i think everyone is dubious... | 15:50 |
| Dantespeaks | just not enough observation and data to support the evidence of prospect/emergence of A.I. | 15:50 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, the very first thing you can do is take care of your meat | 15:50 |
| Dantespeaks | it's like religion. hhahaa | 15:50 |
| ua | exercise, healthy diet (paleo or ketogenic diet) | 15:50 |
| Dantespeaks | not good enough ua. | 15:51 |
| ua | also martial arts so you won't die cuz some fucker with 90 IQ is aggressive | 15:51 |
| ua | well psychomanipulation first on these types obviously | 15:51 |
| Dantespeaks | well, i would prefer to create armour and weapons for self-defence. haha | 15:51 |
| ua | yea but you got to get to the future first | 15:51 |
| Dantespeaks | thats survival prepper stuff, minimal chances of it happening if you play it safe... | 15:52 |
| Dantespeaks | so you're walking on the path of A.I? | 15:52 |
| Dantespeaks | i don't know what to study for in college. | 15:52 |
| ua | I'm not in college | 15:52 |
| ua | sitting in my basement and coding something | 15:52 |
| Dantespeaks | thats fine | 15:53 |
| Dantespeaks | i mean it's part of a curriculum any way | 15:53 |
| Dantespeaks | what should i go for.... | 15:53 |
| Dantespeaks | i dream about A.I but, | 15:53 |
| Dantespeaks | it think it's more materials and money | 15:53 |
| ua | yea that's what i'm afraid too | 15:53 |
| ua | human brain project, blue brain etc | 15:54 |
| ua | these fuckers have billions for hardware and other resources like people | 15:54 |
| ua | 3000 ppl to work on something? no problema! | 15:54 |
| ua | get 3000* | 15:54 |
| ua | < | 15:54 |
| ua | :< * | 15:54 |
| Dantespeaks | henry markram ? IBM? human brain project got funded 1 billion last year or something | 15:54 |
| ua | ye 1.6B for 10 years | 15:55 |
| Dantespeaks | in division huh | 15:55 |
| Dantespeaks | hope they make it, keeps saying 10 years and we can see A.I speak or something | 15:56 |
| Dantespeaks | ok... going philosophically | 15:56 |
| Dantespeaks | i think, ultimately, the study of 'self' (in scientific way) | 15:56 |
| Dantespeaks | is the way to go | 15:56 |
| ua | self is bullshit | 15:56 |
| ua | illusion | 15:56 |
| Dantespeaks | instead, duplicating the functions of 'self' | 15:57 |
| ua | free will, consciousness it's all bullshit | 15:57 |
| Dantespeaks | yeah i mean self-enhancement. | 15:57 |
| ua | it's about designing architecture that will do the job | 15:57 |
| ua | ah ok ;p | 15:57 |
| Dantespeaks | aha! so you are suggesting, understanding of this architecture on self will contribute to creating the architecture for self-enhancement | 15:58 |
| ua | anyway there's Intelligence Amplification too | 15:58 |
| ua | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_amplification | 15:58 |
| kanzure | 15:46 < Dantespeaks> i think nanotechnology will be like a pc... designed and manufactured and people with money can access. | 15:58 |
| kanzure | what a pile of shit. anybody with the knowhow can make their own microchips. | 15:58 |
| kanzure | 15:48 < Dantespeaks> the human brain project and all? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | that's not what most people consider to be ai (they mean "not related to the human brain" most often) | 15:59 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, no I was talking about AI as replication of human mind | 15:59 |
| Dantespeaks | i see. but they have to start somewhere. human brain is a good model for bringing up consciousness, and later they can modify it | 15:59 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, but IA imo it's just what software is doing | 16:00 |
| ua | more functional software, new algos, faster hardware etc | 16:00 |
| Dantespeaks | software needs to copy patterns of consciouness sprouting out from somewhere.. | 16:01 |
| Dantespeaks | so thats the human neo-cortex thing then? | 16:01 |
| kanzure | uh.. | 16:01 |
| Dantespeaks | i dont know what im talking about you guys got me confused nvm | 16:02 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, yea I guess it can work, problem is with computational power and teaching it anything useful | 16:02 |
| Dantespeaks | i just want to know what i should study for college in preparation for the singularity | 16:02 |
| ua | start realistic simulation and wait few years of gaga bubu | 16:02 |
| ua | lel | 16:02 |
| kanzure | maybe you should reconsider college and just do whatever it is you actually want to do | 16:02 |
| kanzure | also you should reconsider consciousness, that idea has helped exactly nobody figure out brain emulation | 16:03 |
| Dantespeaks | kanzure: how will i get the fundamental education? through internet? seems difficult. | 16:03 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, http://blakemasters.com/peter-thiels-cs183-startup check this out | 16:03 |
| kanzure | "fundamental education" is usually what primary shcool is for | 16:03 |
| Dantespeaks | ua: that looks cool hahaha | 16:04 |
| kanzure | it's not cool | 16:04 |
| kanzure | it's just peter thiels saying the usual things | 16:04 |
| kanzure | *thiel saying | 16:04 |
| Dantespeaks | so i guess this guy is serious huh? | 16:04 |
| kanzure | huh? | 16:04 |
| Dantespeaks | yeah i guess so, i mean with all the emergence of powerful technologies coming about "extinction" could be near | 16:05 |
| kanzure | that's called millenialism i think | 16:05 |
| kanzure | and it's boring | 16:05 |
| Dantespeaks | im choosing what i should be learning. there's bit of raves in my group of friends about the book "singularity is near." | 16:06 |
| kanzure | it's not that great of a book | 16:06 |
| Dantespeaks | ray kurzweil | 16:06 |
| kanzure | you can learn more just reading the source maqterial instead of ray's interpretation | 16:06 |
| kanzure | he basically read the extropy-chat and wta-talk mailing list archives for a few years and then just wrote a book or something | 16:06 |
| kanzure | but essentially everything is just cited as "This one time, Anders said this..." which, tada, is really just from an email you can find from anders in one of those two email archives | 16:07 |
| Dantespeaks | wow you sound like you know a lot about this stuff | 16:07 |
| kanzure | fuck off | 16:07 |
| Dantespeaks | huh? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | what the heck type of comment is that | 16:07 |
| kanzure | you know nothing about me | 16:07 |
| kanzure | we've been talking for like 5 minutes dude | 16:07 |
| Dantespeaks | well critizing so-called "genius" (kurzweil) | 16:08 |
| Dantespeaks | that he basically wrote the damn book | 16:08 |
| kanzure | anyone can write a book | 16:08 |
| Dantespeaks | that appeared to have revolutionized - | 16:08 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, lol | 16:08 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:08 |
| Dantespeaks | the understanding of ppl | 16:08 |
| kanzure | you are telling me that you think that raymond kurzweil's book "revolutionized the understanding of people"? | 16:09 |
| Dantespeaks | for a noob like me anyway. everyone has to start some where. | 16:09 |
| Dantespeaks | so you must then know more if you are criticizing | 16:09 |
| Dantespeaks | anyways- | 16:09 |
| kanzure | a large amount of the content that ray kurzweil produces is media that is meant to be consumed as infotainment | 16:09 |
| kanzure | it's his business model | 16:10 |
| Dantespeaks | so im thinking of learning neuroscience. understandingn of self before i can branch off | 16:10 |
| kanzure | you don't need college to do that | 16:10 |
| Dantespeaks | and that makes money | 16:10 |
| Dantespeaks | cool | 16:10 |
| kanzure | most neuroscientists make slightly over minimum wage | 16:10 |
| Dantespeaks | rip off of availiable info floating everywhere and inform people to sell tons of books and open up buncha seminars | 16:11 |
| Dantespeaks | i dont care about money kanzure | 16:11 |
| kanzure | i am starting to regret not kickbanning you immediately | 16:11 |
| Dantespeaks | fuck off man | 16:11 |
| Dantespeaks | whats your prob | 16:11 |
| kanzure | nah it's cool | 16:11 |
| Dantespeaks | sorry i ask stupid questions | 16:11 |
| kanzure | well, seminars are a plague in these circles | 16:11 |
| kanzure | they drain the community over and over again | 16:12 |
| kanzure | most of the people cited in kurzweil's books ended up just making lots of seminars and conferences | 16:12 |
| kanzure | (and doing nothing else) | 16:12 |
| Dantespeaks | who is elizer yudkowsky from machine intelligence institute quoted in the book? | 16:13 |
| Dantespeaks | you know? | 16:13 |
| kanzure | yes i know eliezer | 16:13 |
| Dantespeaks | is he on to something with A.I? | 16:13 |
| kanzure | no | 16:13 |
| kanzure | he writes fan fiction about ponies | 16:13 |
| Dantespeaks | you know him personally? | 16:13 |
| kanzure | and something about pandering to rationality-interested people | 16:13 |
| kanzure | i've hung out with him once in a while, haven't seen him in a few years | 16:14 |
| nalkri | Is that the lesswrong guy? | 16:14 |
| JayDugger | Yes. | 16:14 |
| kanzure | there are many lesswrong people | 16:14 |
| JayDugger | One of them. | 16:14 |
| nalkri | I'm scared of lesswrong, it contains basilisks | 16:14 |
| Dantespeaks | where did i stumble into people knowing eachother from a book i've been adorning for the past six months | 16:14 |
| Dantespeaks | interesting channel. :) | 16:15 |
| JayDugger | Google, I expect. | 16:15 |
| kanzure | Dantespeaks: there's a strong bias against lesswrong, eliezer and ray in here | 16:15 |
| Dantespeaks | then it must mean there's something argumentally better here | 16:15 |
| Dantespeaks | if you are critizing them | 16:16 |
| Dantespeaks | or and understanding | 16:16 |
| Dantespeaks | hplus = human enhancement | 16:16 |
| Dantespeaks | ? | 16:16 |
| Dantespeaks | so i guess i came to the right place. anyways, i know jack | 16:16 |
| Dantespeaks | so i should choose a field and study | 16:16 |
| kanzure | why? | 16:17 |
| Dantespeaks | thinking of prescribing myself provigil ---im in reddit-nootropics | 16:17 |
| Dantespeaks | because, im sorry to quote the ray's book but it doesn't seem like it's so far away | 16:17 |
| Dantespeaks | like 30 years or something, | 16:17 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, but so is fusion. | 16:17 |
| kanzure | who cares though, fuck college | 16:18 |
| kanzure | just do whatever you want and learn whatever the fuck you want | 16:18 |
| Dantespeaks | i would imagine, if this biological neurons can be replaced away by nanotechnology, | 16:18 |
| Dantespeaks | then everything is really confined in the laws of physics, (everything is quantifiable material) | 16:18 |
| JayDugger | Don't wait for Santa Claus to bring you magic gadgets. He won't. | 16:18 |
| Dantespeaks | even self, | 16:18 |
| Dantespeaks | if so, in order to become the "best self" | 16:18 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: i don't think he's going to understand that right now | 16:18 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: considering he's been idolizing _that_ particular book for a while | 16:19 |
| Dantespeaks | one must understand self, in order to enhance oneself in a quantifiable manner with the materials | 16:19 |
| Dantespeaks | and by self-enhancement, enhancing specificially the intellect--- | 16:19 |
| Dantespeaks | so understanding the functions of the brain in more detail would be of use in the future was my conclusion reading that book | 16:20 |
| JayDugger | Fair enough. That's a big topic, thoughl | 16:20 |
| JayDugger | though. | 16:20 |
| Dantespeaks | so then, are you guys saying it's gonna take longer than 30 years or may never happen? | 16:20 |
| kanzure | who cares? your plans should not rely strongly on a singularity happening. you should plan accordingly to make use of your time eithre way. | 16:21 |
| kanzure | *either | 16:21 |
| JayDugger | I don't know how long it will take. | 16:21 |
| JayDugger | I don't know if it's possible. | 16:21 |
| JayDugger | Do what you can to make it happen to the extent you think it is a good idea. | 16:21 |
| Dantespeaks | im a strong believer in how my time is very limited. i have to focus on certain area of expertise and focus on it in order to get anywhere... can't be all at once... | 16:21 |
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| JayDugger | True enough. | 16:22 |
| kanzure | i disagree, that might just be laziness | 16:22 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration/ | 16:22 |
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| Dantespeaks | ooo there's a declaration. it's like the constitution for transhumanists. rofl | 16:23 |
| kanzure | no | 16:24 |
| kanzure | a constitution is a completely different type of document | 16:24 |
| Dantespeaks | im kidding. | 16:24 |
| kanzure | that's like calling a dictionary a constitution | 16:25 |
| Dantespeaks | so logical. | 16:25 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:25 |
| Dantespeaks | never you mind. you know anything about pascal programming language? | 16:26 |
| kanzure | i don't recommend it | 16:26 |
| Dantespeaks | whats with people saying it's a language made for "geniuses"? | 16:26 |
| kanzure | there are many other languages worth learning that you should assign a higher priority | 16:27 |
| kanzure | mostly because other languages have nailed down imperative/functional programming better, have greater numbers of third party libraries, and (if it matters to you) offer more employment opportunities (sometimes) | 16:28 |
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| Dantespeaks | ok | 16:32 |
| Dantespeaks | ty | 16:32 |
| kanzure | i don't even remember if pascal had an active package repoistory. | 16:36 |
| kanzure | *repository | 16:36 |
| kanzure | looks like no | 16:36 |
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| Dantespeaks | I don't know if anyone can answer this question, and no one is obligated to, but i'd like to try: (don't expect a intelligible response from your answers from me.) Must I learn MATLAB for computational neuroscience or can I focus solely on Python? (It seems python is leading the way with different packages of sort) but is MATLAB also necessary? | 21:31 |
| Dantespeaks | nevermind, i guess it really depends on the use. I just don't want to divide any attention/focus learning two different things. | 21:35 |
| Dantespeaks | My next research is on, what courses/degrees do I need to study in order to get into the computational neuroscience. | 21:37 |
| Dantespeaks | This also depends on the uni, but generally speaking. | 21:37 |
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| Dantespeaks | And i've found the answers. Thank you to self. :) | 22:09 |
| abetusk | "type words about open source software..." | 22:37 |
| Dantespeaks | if you create a bullet proof armour, would tensile strength matter more or the hardness of the armour? | 22:39 |
| Dantespeaks | on it's metallic property? | 22:39 |
| Dantespeaks | to deflect the bullet. | 22:39 |
| Dantespeaks | or more likely, not deflect but lessen the force of the impact. | 22:40 |
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| Dantespeaks | This is part of the transhumanist question right? I'm gearing toward development of a exoskeleton armour of course. | 22:41 |
| Dantespeaks | Nevermind. How do you guys use the internet to assist on answering your questions besides obvious IRC channels? | 22:48 |
| Dantespeaks | Forums? | 22:48 |
| Dantespeaks | I would imagine, youtube would be of help in a study, and maybe interactive softwares? | 22:48 |
| Dantespeaks | sorry, i come from a background with parents in the arts, this is my first attempt at studying science. | 22:49 |
| Dantespeaks | Just organizing some methods to study effectively through the net. I don't have the money for personal tutoring. | 22:51 |
| kanzure | matlab is not "required". that's primarily only used in academia. | 22:59 |
| kanzure | i don't know why you are so insistent on college. just fucking learn matlab on your own. | 23:00 |
| Dantespeaks | i can fuckin learn anything on my own. but theres something called human interaction and power in networks through a uni. i would also be interested in a relationship with a girl. why im so insistent. | 23:03 |
| Dantespeaks | but ok. thanks. I think it could be important to learn it later on, if it's the standard thing. | 23:04 |
| Dantespeaks | (matlab) | 23:04 |
| kanzure | girls also happen to exist outside of college | 23:07 |
| Dantespeaks | they also go for guys with high credentials. vanity & materialism = women. | 23:09 |
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| abetusk | kanzure, what was the basic idea you wanted to convey under the "software and hardware" section in that transhuman declaration? | 23:36 |
| kanzure | i forget, probably something that tastes like a condensed version of random bits of c2.com wisdom? something like that. | 23:40 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Oct 14 00:00:23 2013 | ||
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