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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | banned by the Federal Death Administration | official paperbot fan club | 04:17 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sat Mar 23 20:40:45 2013] | 04:17 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 04:17 | |
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| ThomasEgi | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10706234 | 08:31 |
|---|---|---|
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| kanzure_ | hrm why didn't paperbot reply | 08:49 |
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| ThomasEgi | i wondered aswell. | 09:06 |
| ThomasEgi | not that the paper is horribly important for my survival. but the abstract contained some interesting numbers | 09:06 |
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| delinquentme | paperbot, http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=6518135&sortType%3Dasc_p_Sequence%26filter%3DAND(p_IS_Number:6600801) | 10:16 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1109%2FTBME.2013.2264632 | 10:16 |
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| @archels | .title | 10:22 |
| kanzure_ | that bot went away | 10:22 |
| @archels | yeah, its server was seized | 10:23 |
| @archels | I thought they launched a temporary instance elsewhere, but that's probably only in a few channels | 10:23 |
| delinquentme | oh so the paper retrieval no work? | 10:27 |
| kanzure_ | he is talking about another bot | 10:27 |
| delinquentme | I guess im not using paperbot correctly? links == no good | 10:37 |
| kanzure_ | it just means that paperbot is broken | 10:38 |
| kanzure_ | feel free to fix it.. https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues | 10:38 |
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| delinquentme | Also I was trying to recall who the SF startup was whos doing health insurance for the 1% | 10:45 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure_, Thoughts on the issue? Paperbot basically has template operations for each journal right? | 10:54 |
| delinquentme | and then the issues are basically crawling the website, logging in and then selecting the right url for download? | 10:54 |
| kanzure_ | the issues on github are just various bugs that people have noticed | 10:55 |
| kanzure_ | paperbot is poorly written and needs a rewrite in many places. when the zotero translators fail then paperbot turns into a pile of if statements (which is really bad). | 10:55 |
| * delinquentme pets paperbot | 11:04 | |
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| ua | hi | 12:28 |
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| kanzure_ | ua: hello | 12:29 |
| ua | i was lurking in here long time ago under my longer nick, uniqanomaly | 12:30 |
| Dantespeaks | the mere thought of studying a programming language such as python, and chemistry scares the shit out of me. | 12:30 |
| Dantespeaks | spending all those years in the arts... | 12:31 |
| ua | had this idea about freeeing all the science papers, came back to me lately | 12:31 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, check out http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ | 12:31 |
| ua | easy way in | 12:31 |
| ua | :) | 12:31 |
| Dantespeaks | i downloaded video tutorials and stuff on torrents... | 12:32 |
| Dantespeaks | thanks, i have that book as well. fearful of opening them. :) | 12:32 |
| ua | so with freeing all the science papers, idea was to have python app for android, ppl install it and it acts as a client which is downloading all papers from within of university networks | 12:33 |
| ua | and place where all the papers are is distributed amongst 100s or 1000s of computers with system based on https://tahoe-lafs.org/~warner/pycon-tahoe.html | 12:33 |
| delinquentme | cool idea or dumb idea: 3d printing of macro molecules | 12:34 |
| delinquentme | execution seems simple as I can just make a conversion script and then sell that shit on shapeways | 12:34 |
| delinquentme | zero upfront investment | 12:34 |
| kanzure_ | ua: it should be a proxy that gets installed on android and iphone phones | 12:35 |
| kanzure_ | ua: then a server logs into each proxy to download papers | 12:35 |
| ua | kanzure_, yea i was thinking more about just batch downloading everything there is to download and dumping it onto distributed file system | 12:36 |
| ua | yea but proxy is nice idea for starters | 12:36 |
| ua | phones try to fetch papers based on queue on some server | 12:36 |
| kanzure_ | the problem with batch downloading is that your implementation is probably wrong, so the proxy allows a central server to have updated scrapers without having to push out new versions to each phone | 12:37 |
| ua | yea but phones could just update scrapers from repo on github | 12:37 |
| kanzure_ | not entirely, most phones don't have git installed | 12:38 |
| ua | and then upload pdf papers straight into distributed filesystem | 12:38 |
| kanzure_ | for example, most phone users in college don't have root on their phone, so you can't do arbitrary app updates | 12:38 |
| ua | kivy.org, so it would be python | 12:38 |
| kanzure_ | you are still restricted by the constraints of apps on that platform | 12:39 |
| kanzure_ | kivy just changes how you write the app | 12:39 |
| kanzure_ | whether it's python bytecode or dalvik bytecode doesn't seriously change your ability to force an update | 12:39 |
| ua | yea it woudlnt be an app update, just newer scripts would be downloaded into app data dir | 12:39 |
| ua | newer scrapers * | 12:40 |
| kanzure_ | why though? the only thing that you really need is a connection | 12:40 |
| ua | yea but then its decentralised amongst lots of phones | 12:40 |
| kanzure_ | yes.. you have multiple different versions scraping all the time... which is bad. | 12:40 |
| ua | and that enables you to get all of the papers | 12:40 |
| ua | no, they would synchronize with the distributed filesystem | 12:41 |
| kanzure_ | have you ever built a scraper with more than a few hundred nodes? | 12:41 |
| ua | to check what more is to download | 12:41 |
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| ua | yea thats the challenge, each phone would work independently | 12:42 |
| ua | there would be one or more queues in the distributed filesystem | 12:42 |
| ua | my thinking is with distributed FS theres nothing central to take down | 12:42 |
| kanzure_ | i think it's a dumb idea to put a queue in a file system like that | 12:43 |
| ua | just few trusted people would have admin access to file system | 12:43 |
| ua | some bots perhaps | 12:43 |
| ua | for indexing etc | 12:43 |
| ua | there could be dunno, different folders for each user(as in phone uploading papers) | 12:44 |
| ua | bots take care of checking if files are legit | 12:44 |
| kanzure_ | you suck at system design | 12:44 |
| ua | moving and indexing | 12:44 |
| ua | thank you very much, i'm just trying to conceptualize this stuff | 12:44 |
| kanzure_ | i believe i've already made it clear why your idea is bad, but you just keep on talking and ignoring me | 12:45 |
| ua | and i appreciate criticism, not ignoring at all, im gonna do more research | 12:47 |
| kanzure_ | with a distributed file system acting as a queue you run into issues regarding locking, which doesn't scale to many nodes | 12:47 |
| kanzure_ | you sound like you're already extremely committed to the exact implementation you've suggested | 12:47 |
| kanzure_ | so i sort of doubt your research will change your mind | 12:47 |
| kanzure_ | there are other proposed implementations of very similar systems for using phones to download papers that have been written up over here: https://groups.google.com/group/science-liberation-front | 12:49 |
| ua | ok thanks | 12:49 |
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| Dantespeaks | does anyone see advantages of living in an amazon rainforest? literally. I may get a chance to go there as a photographer. | 13:53 |
| Dantespeaks | but, science-wise, what are the advantages? | 13:54 |
| ua | Dantespeaks, advantages? these spiders, snakes may try a fresh human being first and last time in their lives | 14:00 |
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| Dantespeaks | yeah well, biodiversity and it's threats are expected... | 14:15 |
| Dantespeaks | what worries me are the mosquitoes and yellow fever. | 14:15 |
| Dantespeaks | but for people who wants information on DNA of certain species or plant-life for some drug creation, | 14:16 |
| Dantespeaks | i could imagine living there could be of use. | 14:16 |
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| ua | hi cataracts | 15:06 |
| cataracts | ua, hi | 15:06 |
| cataracts | ua is this uninaquolomy | 15:06 |
| ua | yeyeye | 15:06 |
| ua | check in whois :P | 15:06 |
| cataracts | cool, do you know who i am? :) | 15:07 |
| ua | yea i remember | 15:07 |
| cataracts | cool, how are you doing? | 15:08 |
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| ua | %o a little | 15:08 |
| ua | o/oo | 15:08 |
| ua | ;) | 15:08 |
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| Dantespeaks | is there a company name generator of sort any where. something plausible... | 18:40 |
| Dantespeaks | i've no imagination for names. :( | 18:40 |
| Dantespeaks | I was diagnosed with a condition called "Vertigo" | 18:41 |
| Dantespeaks | and was given a medication called "Serc" today. | 18:41 |
| Dantespeaks | inner ear, possible fluid build up or calcium deposit formation leading to complete off balance and dizziness. | 18:41 |
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| ua | Dantespeaks, what would be comapny name related to, i feel like imagining names | 18:48 |
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| Dantespeaks | something to do with information | 19:12 |
| Dantespeaks | kinda like a publishing company | 19:12 |
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| Dantespeaks | What is the difference between Python, Python 2, and Python 3? Why is there 3 different references asking me to start with them? | 19:21 |
| Dantespeaks | If I start with Python, will I miss out on Python 3? | 19:22 |
| Adifex | some differences between 2.7 and 3 | 19:25 |
| Adifex | but might as well start with 3 | 19:26 |
| Dantespeaks | So if I learn from references made for Python, i'll have to re-learn many other things with 2 and 3? | 19:28 |
| Dantespeaks | but the fundamentals remains the same, and what they mean by 2 and 3 are the versions for the clients? | 19:28 |
| Dantespeaks | ok got it. | 19:28 |
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| fredox | Dantespeaks: which country's rainforest? | 20:53 |
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| Dantespeaks | brazil | 20:56 |
| Dantespeaks | amazonas | 20:56 |
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| joshcryer | when is additive 3d printing going to go away? | 21:32 |
| joshcryer | industrial 3d manufacturing of objects, plastic, or metal, is largely subtractive (even with molds you subtract the extraneous bits) | 21:33 |
| Dantespeaks | they would have different properties im guessing but additive would be more convenient for rapid prototyping? | 21:34 |
| Dantespeaks | both are a necessity. | 21:34 |
| Dantespeaks | the question is, when is teleporation assembly of atoms going to appear? | 21:41 |
| Dantespeaks | then we don't need additive or subtractive. Just a hustle of atoms appearing. | 21:41 |
| fredox | technically that would be additive | 21:42 |
| fredox | and in answer to joshcryer - never | 21:43 |
| joshcryer | oh I definitely don't mean to totally shit on additive 3d printing, it's useful, but massive large industrial stuff is either subtractive or deformative | 21:43 |
| joshcryer | (I consider molds deformative, not additive) | 21:44 |
| fredox | yeah this whole "in the future we'll just print what we need" is a crock | 21:44 |
| fredox | but as a designer that stuff is bloody handy | 21:45 |
| joshcryer | I'm loving that we're still printing and working at it but I don't see, currently, an effort to move beyond it | 21:45 |
| joshcryer | oh no doubt at all, fredox | 21:45 |
| joshcryer | what made me come here after a lull / hiatus was peachy printer | 21:45 |
| joshcryer | I think it's a step up cost-tech-wise (using the sound card for positioning? brilliant) | 21:45 |
| joshcryer | but it's the same old :/ | 21:46 |
| kanzure_ | what's stopping you from buying some injection molding equipment? | 21:46 |
| joshcryer | my not finding it very useful probably | 21:47 |
| fredox | actually saw a massive one for sale second hand for $7k recently | 21:47 |
| joshcryer | I'm leaning toward machining type stuff | 21:48 |
| joshcryer | the obession with plastic is also annoying :P | 21:49 |
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| joshcryer | Dantespeaks, btw I may be in a minority in here but I think Smalley was right regarding self-replicating nanotech | 21:53 |
| joshcryer | Dantespeaks, so that whole self-assembly thing to me is a crock and waste of time | 21:54 |
| kanzure_ | how do you explain cells, then? | 21:54 |
| joshcryer | they're made of hydrocarbons? | 21:55 |
| Dantespeaks | from nothing to something is definitely additive, but, to the naked eye, it would be a assembly, a gathering/hustling together of atoms. more likely just appearing during those times. you've seen star trek. but is there a way to transfer atoms without need of nanites? prolly. | 21:57 |
| joshcryer | I approach Smalley's argument differently, from my POV, if we could do metals or other materials with self-assembling nano-tech, evolution almost certainly would've done it by now (beyond meager biological functions, mind you; there are cases of gearing and whatnot in nature) | 21:58 |
| kanzure_ | that's like saying "if nucleosynthesis was possible, cells would already be doing it" | 22:00 |
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| joshcryer | kanzure_, no need to be combative, your analogy is silly, cells have been shown to handle metals at a molecular level, no cells have been shown to do nucleosynthesis at a cellular level | 22:05 |
| joshcryer | Smalley's point was that large scale industrial level structures couldn't be done with a cellular environment without it being a liquid and which would limit the growth of such systems. It had nothing to do with what was possible, you could make a car with it self-replicating nanotech, but it wouldn't be exponential, and it'd grow out of a gel-like liquid structure. | 22:06 |
| joshcryer | Which industry would be able to do shitloads faster with only a little more energy expended. | 22:07 |
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| kanzure_ | you said nothing of his claims about exponential processes- simply that self-assembling metal nanostructures were infeasible. | 22:07 |
| joshcryer | Drexler pretends that you can drop a nanotech seed on the ground and magically a car appears in exponential time, it's absurd. | 22:07 |
| joshcryer | "waste of time" is not "infeasible" | 22:08 |
| joshcryer | there may be areas where it would be feasible if not desirable that I have not considered | 22:08 |
| kanzure_ | i don't remember claims about exponential *time* from drexler. was this engines of creation? | 22:08 |
| joshcryer | Yeah. I should back down, I'm not certain he said that. But! He uses exponential metaphors often, if I recall correctly he talked about building a building with perfect, absolutely perfect metal bricks (whuch fused together; they were bricks to remove heat which would invariably occur) made of self-replicating nanites building a skyscraper in a few hours, though. | 22:10 |
| kanzure_ | "in a few hours" i'd like to see if he put math for that anywhere | 22:11 |
| joshcryer | But, I'm not certain he said that was possible, or if he was just suggesting a metaphor for exponential growth. | 22:11 |
| kanzure_ | i think there might be some generic thermodynamic constraints that would prevent "in a few hours" from being a feasible thing | 22:11 |
| joshcryer | Bah, OK, I'll look for it. | 22:11 |
| joshcryer | http://e-drexler.com/d/06/00/EOC/EOC_Chapter_4.html | 22:12 |
| joshcryer | checking, cursory glance is my memory isn't wrong, but I will skim | 22:12 |
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| kanzure_ | "Free 20th anniversary e-book edition" did we seriously fucking spend that much time scanning the book in | 22:13 |
| joshcryer | damn 1986... | 22:15 |
| kanzure_ | fenn did the scan after 2007, i think in 2010 | 22:15 |
| joshcryer | yeah I stand by my Drexler overview after skimming | 22:15 |
| kanzure_ | so this was already available | 22:15 |
| kanzure_ | hmmm | 22:15 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Nov 08 00:00:18 2013 | ||
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