| --- Log opened Fri Dec 13 00:00:52 2013 | ||
| juri_ | ThomasEgi: it might be worth you talking to mirage335. he's doing EEG work, mainly because he cannot find anyone to cooperate with on electrode work. he's been trying to get me to help him manufacture electrodes for a year now. | 00:08 |
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| juri_ | paperbot: http://www.pcisig.com/members/downloads/PCIe_M.2_Electromechanical_Spec_Rev1.0_Final_11012013_RS_Clean.pdf | 02:40 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/eb007cd93d74feae2d47619c00a53bc5.txt | 02:40 |
| juri_ | grr. worth a shot. | 02:41 |
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| ThomasEgi | superkuh, ping | 09:22 |
| superkuh | I don't know anything useful about multi-electrode arrays. | 09:24 |
| superkuh | Recently I have been reading about using small molecules to restores some visual function after retinal detachment. | 09:25 |
| superkuh | In the interneurons. | 09:25 |
| ThomasEgi | have you any ideas about how to reduce the strength of the connective tissue holding the neurons together? | 09:26 |
| superkuh | No. | 09:26 |
| ThomasEgi | hm. anyone you know maybe? | 09:26 |
| superkuh | Nope, sorry. | 09:26 |
| ThomasEgi | np. thx anyway. who knows. maybe i'll run into someone who knows about that sort of stuff. | 09:29 |
| ThomasEgi | ran into a whole lot of people lately | 09:29 |
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| @archels | ThomasEgi: Does this person have any chance of keeping their retina, even if it is dysfunctional? | 11:04 |
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| @archels | there should be a several regulator-approved retinal implants out there | 11:06 |
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| ThomasEgi | archels, the entire eye got removed due to retinal cancer-like things | 11:08 |
| ThomasEgi | so it's only the optic nerve left. we aren't even sure if the visual cortex still processes the signals properly, but that's another issue | 11:09 |
| @archels | ah, very cool that you're trying to help this person | 11:10 |
| @archels | you should be able to achieve at least phosphenes, don't you think? | 11:10 |
| @archels | 160x144 may be a bit much to ask for at this point in time | 11:10 |
| chris_99 | retinal implants are b&w aren't they? | 11:11 |
| ThomasEgi | grayscale at best | 11:12 |
| chris_99 | why is that | 11:12 |
| chris_99 | like could you transmit red or is that not possible atm | 11:12 |
| ThomasEgi | 160x144 is indeed a rather high target to reach. 32x32 or 64x64 should be somewhat possible. 64x64 already produces a somewhat useable vision | 11:12 |
| ThomasEgi | chris_99, well theoretically you could use different colors, but that would reduce the resolution 4 fold, and your brain would have to learn to interpret that. | 11:13 |
| ThomasEgi | for the time speaking, grayscale only reduces the technical requirements, and the requirements for the brain to relearn things. | 11:14 |
| chris_99 | am i right in thinking there are different coloured nerves in the retina? | 11:14 |
| chris_99 | or is it not like that | 11:14 |
| ThomasEgi | the retina has different kinds of receptor cells | 11:15 |
| ThomasEgi | but they all transmit the data over the same nerve. | 11:15 |
| chris_99 | oh, so how is the colour encoded | 11:15 |
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| ThomasEgi | well you have the different photoreceptor cells wired up to separate neurons | 11:16 |
| ThomasEgi | between 700k and 1.7M of those make up the optic nerve. | 11:16 |
| ThomasEgi | so you have the information of red, blue, green and lumo all mixed up next to each other | 11:17 |
| chris_99 | ah, so there are 3 types of cones, i didn't realise that | 11:17 |
| ThomasEgi | 4 i think? | 11:17 |
| ThomasEgi | 3 for color. one for just brightness | 11:18 |
| chris_99 | ' In humans, there are three different types of cone cell, distinguished by their pattern of response to different wavelengths of light. ' | 11:18 |
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| chris_99 | isn't it the rod | 11:18 |
| chris_99 | that defines the brightness | 11:18 |
| chris_99 | iirc sometimes humans have an extra red cone | 11:19 |
| juri_ | i'm colourscrewed. i have only two types, and one of them is working in the wrong band. | 11:20 |
| ThomasEgi | yeah 3 cones, and the rod. | 11:20 |
| ThomasEgi | makes 4 in total | 11:20 |
| ThomasEgi | for a healthy human | 11:20 |
| ThomasEgi | there are rare genetic conditiotns which result in 4 different cones and the rods. | 11:21 |
| chris_99 | so how do you actually target the cone/rod specifically | 11:23 |
| chris_99 | surely alignment is very hard | 11:23 |
| ThomasEgi | you don't | 11:23 |
| chris_99 | oh you just whack it in | 11:23 |
| ThomasEgi | well you could, if you could access individual neurons. | 11:23 |
| ThomasEgi | but todays tech won't allow you to do that on more than just very few neurons | 11:23 |
| chris_99 | ah | 11:24 |
| ThomasEgi | so yeah, you whack in bigger electrodes, stimulating hunrdets of neurons with a signle electrode. | 11:24 |
| chris_99 | mm | 11:24 |
| ThomasEgi | and as result, you pretty much get a grayscale impression as all colors are excited evenly | 11:24 |
| chris_99 | ah | 11:24 |
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| kanzure | yet another eeg http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openbci/openbci-an-open-source-brain-computer-interface-fo | 12:52 |
| chris_99 | arduino eeg hmm | 12:54 |
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| chris_99 | ThomasEgi, you know anything about that chip http://www.ti.com/product/ads1299 | 13:02 |
| ThomasEgi | sure do | 13:02 |
| ThomasEgi | i have the the older version of that chip right in front of me right now | 13:02 |
| ThomasEgi | the ADS1194 | 13:03 |
| chris_99 | nice, i assume it's not a differential input, right | 13:03 |
| ThomasEgi | it is differential input | 13:03 |
| chris_99 | oh | 13:03 |
| chris_99 | ah, so the electrode has two connections on? | 13:03 |
| ThomasEgi | yep | 13:03 |
| chris_99 | ah | 13:03 |
| ThomasEgi | each channel has a positive, and negative input. each usualy connects to one electrode | 13:04 |
| chris_99 | so is it really easy to use then, just whack an electrode on | 13:04 |
| chris_99 | and grab the output | 13:04 |
| chris_99 | via SPI by the looks of it | 13:04 |
| ThomasEgi | more or less yes | 13:04 |
| chris_99 | interesting | 13:04 |
| ThomasEgi | it still requires all the engineering to not fuck up the signal | 13:04 |
| chris_99 | mm | 13:05 |
| chris_99 | you don't happen to know any non-differential 24 bit ADCs? | 13:05 |
| ThomasEgi | proper power supply, good pcb layout, strong shielding etc. | 13:05 |
| ThomasEgi | why would you want non-differential? | 13:05 |
| ThomasEgi | i mean you could simply pull one end at half the supply voldage | 13:06 |
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| chris_99 | doesn't work that well if you do that kind of trick though | 13:06 |
| chris_99 | compared to a non-diff i thought | 13:06 |
| ThomasEgi | the non-differential signal handling is what makes it worse | 13:06 |
| ThomasEgi | not the trick you pull | 13:06 |
| ThomasEgi | there is a very good reason to use differential signaling | 13:07 |
| ThomasEgi | actually many reasons. | 13:07 |
| chris_99 | yes, that'd make sense if you have 2 real inputs | 13:08 |
| ThomasEgi | you don't ? | 13:09 |
| chris_99 | no that's what i'm saying | 13:09 |
| ThomasEgi | then you should change your setting to get 2 inputs | 13:09 |
| ThomasEgi | alternatively you could do something like having a lowpass-filtered signal at one input. and the original at the other. | 13:10 |
| chris_99 | hmm i guess i'll use a regulated signal like you say as the other input | 13:11 |
| chris_99 | as i can then use my existing pcbs | 13:11 |
| chris_99 | hopefully | 13:11 |
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| chris_99 | ever used capacitive displacment sensors? | 13:14 |
| justanotheruser | In a 2-3 spanning tree with n=64 leafs, is it's height closer to log_2(n) or 3? | 13:15 |
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| AlterSid | what is a 2-3 spanning tree? do you mean each node can have 2 or 3 children? | 13:33 |
| AlterSid | justanotheruser: ^ | 13:33 |
| AlterSid | if it's a binary tree, then its height will be exactly log_2(64), which is 6 | 13:34 |
| justanotheruser | AlterSid: it is a B-tree. Each node either has 2 or three children. | 13:36 |
| AlterSid | ok, then worst case is 6 | 13:37 |
| justanotheruser | Basically, if the entire tree has 2 children it will have a height of 6, but if every node has 3 children it will have a height of 4 | 13:37 |
| justanotheruser | anyways one of the questions on my exam was if a tree would be closer to log_2(n) or 3. | 13:37 |
| justanotheruser | I put log_2(n), but the trees height can be 4,5 or 6 therefore, 3 could be right too. | 13:38 |
| AlterSid | that's a weird question.. | 13:38 |
| justanotheruser | because a height of 4 is closer to 3 than a log_2(64) | 13:38 |
| AlterSid | was it multiple choice, or could you elaborate (like you just did)? | 13:39 |
| justanotheruser | AlterSid: it was multiple choice. One of the answers was also 2n | 13:39 |
| justanotheruser | There were 5 answers, only those two could be right. | 13:39 |
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| ascendancy | quick question: has anyone here had neodymium implants? | 21:27 |
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| Zhwazi | That seems like a dangerous sort of thing to implant, if you're talking about magnets. | 22:13 |
| kanzure | does anyone have a link to a stream for the upcoming the chinese moon landing | 22:27 |
| kanzure | oh wait, they probably wont stream photos | 22:28 |
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| AlterSid | ascendancy: if you want, quinn norton did a conference at 29C3 (or maybe earlier) on her experience using these | 22:31 |
| AlterSid | (the conference is availble on youtube) | 22:32 |
| AlterSid | wow, it was 23C3 actually | 22:34 |
| kanzure | http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33511.0 | 22:34 |
| AlterSid | btw, anyone here going to this edition? | 22:34 |
| kanzure | i am there in spirit, does that count | 22:35 |
| AlterSid | of course ! | 22:36 |
| ascendancy | altersid: thank you very much. I'll check it out right away | 22:42 |
| ascendancy | and thank you too, kanzure | 22:42 |
| kanzure | uh whatever | 22:43 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin: what place will do anonymous genome sequencing | 23:38 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: e.g. no "know your customer" BS | 23:38 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Dec 14 00:00:53 2013 | ||
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