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| juri_ | does anyone here have a dwavesys.com account i can use? | 00:58 |
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| gradstudentbot | Can I get Saturday off? | 00:59 |
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| JayDugger | No and no. | 01:09 |
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| aelinoea | http://psychedelicfrontier.com/2014/01/maps-completes-first-new-therapeutic-lsd-study-in-40-years/ | 02:07 |
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| FourFire | http://www.enn.com/energy/article/46872 | 06:20 |
| FourFire | this was a surprise, I admit I didn't think this was going to happen for another few years | 06:21 |
| aelinoea | woot! this is good news! | 06:23 |
| aelinoea | soon there is no excuse for shitty energy | 06:23 |
| aelinoea | and the assholes running the whole oil thing start to sweat out of the stress :--D | 06:24 |
| aelinoea | hopefully | 06:24 |
| aelinoea | would be fucking amazing to live in a ecovillage with high tech, combining these clean technologies in a nice way without all the hippie pseudospirituality dogmas | 06:24 |
| aelinoea | it is truly gross how much resistance there is for change for the better | 06:25 |
| aelinoea | makes me pissed off just thinking about it | 06:26 |
| aelinoea | "hey why not live in peace without any work as we can already automatize most of the things here" "NO WE WANT WAR AND NASCAR MOTHERFUCKER" | 06:26 |
| JayDugger | Wow...does the article say what prices they pay? | 06:29 |
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| FourFire | aelinoea, resistance is based partially on fear of the unknown, and lack of proof for such a system working, ever | 07:06 |
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| FourFire | "You don't really want to take the leap of faith from your sinking ship if all you see is cold, water beneath you" | 07:07 |
| superkuh | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=6565879 | 07:14 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/89a4af7859d6de039cf945e3067c548.pdf | 07:14 |
| aelinoea | FourFire: yes and ridiculous deathgrip on control because of accumulated petrodollar | 07:15 |
| FourFire | oh yeah, and there's also a minority which has political power and wants to keep it | 07:16 |
| superkuh | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=6018264 | 07:18 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1109%2FTAP.2011.2167916 | 07:22 |
| aelinoea | yeah that too, the rich has gotten stinking rich >_< | 07:24 |
| aelinoea | mainly because of exploitation and war+petrol income me feels | 07:24 |
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| aelinoea | such a nice thing that solar and wind are getting cheaper all the time =) | 07:25 |
| aelinoea | plus 3D printing is democratizing the means of production | 07:25 |
| FourFire | aelinoea, yeah, the rich; people like Bill Gates | 07:26 |
| aelinoea | and guy is either really fucking evil or truly an impotent | 07:26 |
| aelinoea | that* | 07:27 |
| FourFire | yeah... I'm going to say a few more sentences, and then /ignore you | 07:27 |
| FourFire | Check the statistics, the truth for yourself instead of just blindly agreeing with your current in crowd's memetic BS | 07:28 |
| aelinoea | :D | 07:29 |
| FourFire | People who are rich are either inheritants of wealth and/or wealth gathering systems, or they were intelligent, hardworking, and determined enough to actually build those systems for themselves, thus leveraging everyone else's convenience to their own benefit | 07:29 |
| aelinoea | you haven't seen the stats saying that only few percent of worlds population has majority of worlds health have you? | 07:29 |
| aelinoea | yes that is what I mean, bill gates never built a good system | 07:29 |
| FourFire | Yes I have, and now we can argue about that brought about the situation | 07:29 |
| aelinoea | it is a shitty one, thus he is either evil or impotent | 07:30 |
| FourFire | ... | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | as he is not able to pull anything better out of his head | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | like... umm linux? | 07:30 |
| FourFire | You must be using a computer right now... | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | which is something that majority of worlds supercomputers work with XD | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | nowdays | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | yes like bill was the only one ever that thought about computers? XD | 07:30 |
| FourFire | you may or may not be running Linux or Apple's OS on it | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | yes I am running linux | 07:30 |
| aelinoea | obviously, I changed after got pissed off at windows being such a buggy piece of shit os | 07:31 |
| FourFire | but the fact is, that without whatever bill gates' work, that computer would not exist for you to run your pet distro on | 07:31 |
| aelinoea | and so did majority of the admins running all the super computers of the world... | 07:31 |
| aelinoea | hahaha yeah right | 07:31 |
| aelinoea | but why did he not improve but decided to stay on his shitty path? | 07:31 |
| aelinoea | can you pull an answer to that | 07:31 |
| aelinoea | mr I am so intelligent | 07:31 |
| FourFire | consumers purchases subsidize things like supercomputers | 07:32 |
| FourFire | the things would not exist without a vast array of standardized components and technology standards to choose from | 07:32 |
| FourFire | for cheap | 07:32 |
| FourFire | at the start, any computer was a supercomputer, and they sucked | 07:32 |
| aelinoea | sorry, you must explain things more simple as I am not a native english speaker | 07:32 |
| FourFire | the existence of windows as an operating system let normal people buy "PCs" | 07:33 |
| FourFire | when lots of people bought PCs then economies of scale kicked in | 07:33 |
| aelinoea | sorry, you are not making any sense to me | 07:33 |
| FourFire | and mass production of things which computers are made of became relatively cheap to produce and buy | 07:34 |
| aelinoea | it is pointless to keep discussing if you are not able to write to a person which is not a native speaker of the same language | 07:34 |
| gradstudentbot | I have to order new primers. | 07:34 |
| FourFire | it is pointless for you to start a discussion with a person in a language which you are incompetent in | 07:34 |
| FourFire | now, let me try to answer your question in simple words | 07:35 |
| aelinoea | and how many languages do you speak? | 07:35 |
| FourFire | Using: http://splasho.com/upgoer5/ | 07:35 |
| FourFire | three | 07:35 |
| aelinoea | and you feel rather nice when someone fluent in them says you suck at speaking to them? | 07:35 |
| FourFire | though I'm hoping I will be able to speak four soon | 07:35 |
| FourFire | nope, but i didn't claim you were nonfluent in english, you did | 07:36 |
| aelinoea | you understand that arguing does not work like that, if you keep making low blows you come off as an idiot who has nothing better to say | 07:36 |
| FourFire | I think your writing in the english language is passible, and thus I am expectant that you can understand what I am writing to you | 07:36 |
| aelinoea | and as a fluent speaker I presume, you should be able to speak it simple too | 07:37 |
| aelinoea | otherwise you are not that good communicator | 07:37 |
| aelinoea | in communicating | 07:37 |
| FourFire | yes, I'm not a very good communicator, but I didn't claim to be in the first place. | 07:37 |
| aelinoea | yes, I was trying to point that out for you earlier by saying I did not understand what you were saying | 07:38 |
| FourFire | ok, lets go back to the start, forget about bill gates, forget about super computers for now | 07:40 |
| FourFire | you said:"yeah that too, the rich has gotten stinking rich >_<" " mainly because of exploitation and war+petrol income me feels" | 07:41 |
| FourFire | I then pointed at the example of the currently richest person on the planet | 07:41 |
| FourFire | I then said " People who are rich are either inheritants of wealth and/or wealth gathering systems, or they were intelligent, hardworking, and determined enough to actually build those systems for themselves, thus leveraging everyone else's convenience to their own benefit" | 07:42 |
| aelinoea | then I pointed out that windows sucks as an operating system and that there are better ones out there and but they did not make anyone that rich, why is that? well because they work so well that no need for any tech support or anything like that | 07:42 |
| FourFire | this is the only thing I have claimed, and the only thing I need to back up, you're trying to put claims on me, to divert the argument into something against my character, and that is something i disagree with | 07:42 |
| aelinoea | and those guys probably worked harder than bill and his crew to perfect that os | 07:43 |
| FourFire | I actually agree, windows does suck for certain applications | 07:43 |
| FourFire | and it could be a lot better | 07:43 |
| FourFire | I'm currently running Linux myself, actually | 07:43 |
| aelinoea | did they switch into windows in the ISS? no, they use linux | 07:43 |
| FourFire | but, back to the main point: | 07:43 |
| aelinoea | why does the people who go to space use linux and not windows? | 07:43 |
| FourFire | because of viruses | 07:44 |
| FourFire | and malware infection | 07:44 |
| FourFire | but what is more to the point: the reason there is so much malware targeted at windows (and now android) | 07:44 |
| FourFire | most people USE windows, regardless of whether it sucks or not | 07:44 |
| FourFire | and bill gates Made that | 07:44 |
| aelinoea | yes and thus coming to my point, windows is exploitation | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | they advertise like fuck | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | and push it everywhere | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | thing that linux does not | 07:45 |
| FourFire | he caused by his lifetimes of actions for something he initally created to be bought by the majority of people on the planet | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | yes, he could have played it right and made a great leap | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | think of the world if every fucking machine would run linux? | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | huh, a different world all together | 07:45 |
| aelinoea | open source vs. closed source? | 07:45 |
| FourFire | returning to my inital point: "rich people are either rich because of inheritance (rich kids) or they Worked Hard and Smart to leverage the state of the world in their favour | 07:46 |
| FourFire | " | 07:46 |
| gradstudentbot | I think using the laser is making me sterile. | 07:46 |
| FourFire | now tell me what about that statement is "wrong" in the correct/incorrect sense | 07:46 |
| FourFire | I'm not claiming that it is morally correct | 07:47 |
| aelinoea | well thus coming to my statement that the guy is impotent | 07:47 |
| aelinoea | because he was not able to pull it right | 07:47 |
| aelinoea | ;D | 07:47 |
| aelinoea | maybe you just dig the exploitation gig | 07:47 |
| aelinoea | wasn't transhumanism about helping to better the human condition? | 07:48 |
| FourFire | ok, can you be serious and tell me what you mean by impotent, with other words | 07:48 |
| aelinoea | and not to fuck it up | 07:48 |
| FourFire | well I argue that computers everywhere is "improving the human condition" and he played a major part in that | 07:48 |
| aelinoea | well sure but I am not going to answer to a retard | 07:49 |
| FourFire | not that he didn't make mistakes along the way, but I think he improved the human condition a great deal more than you or i have ever done | 07:49 |
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| FourFire | ok, so again, you are just baselessly insulting me because you disagree with me | 07:49 |
| aelinoea | well I am just stating that you are not seeing the big picture, you just think that having a computer is improving your own condition | 07:50 |
| aelinoea | having a computer that is not attached to your body | 07:50 |
| FourFire | care to explain exactly why you disagree with me, or shall we just mutally /ignore eachother? | 07:50 |
| aelinoea | sure you can read and access alot of information but that does not mean that you are automatically getting improved at the same time | 07:50 |
| aelinoea | for example, the kids at where I live in Finland have phones since very early age that have internet in it | 07:51 |
| FourFire | I'm not thinking about the future in this context, I'm thinking of the state of the world, comparing 1950s to now | 07:51 |
| aelinoea | but they still use it for watching caturday shit | 07:51 |
| aelinoea | thus having a computer did not improve their condition really | 07:51 |
| FourFire | and how much improvement has happened and Which people Caused that improvement to happen | 07:51 |
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| FourFire | the next people who make the next great improvements in the human condition are also going to be stinking rich | 07:52 |
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| FourFire | of course it depends on your exact definition of improvement | 07:52 |
| FourFire | you could think that facebook is net negative, but Zuckerberg is a billionaire | 07:52 |
| FourFire | and he Made That happen | 07:52 |
| aelinoea | Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities. | 07:52 |
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| aelinoea | see the word fundamentally | 07:53 |
| FourFire | who ever makes popular whatever futuristic tech you are looking forward to using is going to become really wealthy as well | 07:53 |
| aelinoea | Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies. They predict that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".[1] | 07:53 |
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| FourFire | aelinoea, and is the creation and maintained existence of the internet along the direction of that goal? | 07:54 |
| aelinoea | obviously something like windows is greatly limiting the possibilities of the computer or the community working on the computer thing as it is closed source | 07:55 |
| FourFire | because the internet wouldn't exist as it does today without everyone having computers | 07:55 |
| FourFire | of course it is | 07:55 |
| FourFire | but it's not 100% negative | 07:55 |
| FourFire | and you seem to be implying that | 07:55 |
| FourFire | as if it is stupidly obvious | 07:55 |
| FourFire | and it seems obvious to me that this view is stupid | 07:56 |
| aelinoea | I am just stating that in the longer run no-one wants to live in a proprietary reality except the slaves | 07:56 |
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| FourFire | of course not! I agree with you | 07:56 |
| gradstudentbot | The paper got rejected. | 07:56 |
| FourFire | but again, no single person is apparently smart enough to come up with some grand system that will work which completely replaces what we have today | 07:57 |
| FourFire | or if they are they are being ignored by everyone else | 07:57 |
| aelinoea | dude you understand how much advertising plays in this all? | 07:57 |
| FourFire | and this state of affairs is due to the reasons I said at the start | 07:57 |
| aelinoea | with big enough ad budget you can run over anything | 07:57 |
| FourFire | yes, certainly | 07:57 |
| FourFire | just look at Coke | 07:57 |
| aelinoea | thus those who don't care just go with the first thing that comes to their mind | 07:58 |
| aelinoea | yea | 07:58 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing! | 07:58 |
| FourFire | but you know where big enough budgets come from? | 07:58 |
| FourFire | Being rich? | 07:58 |
| aelinoea | well coke had cocaine in it at first :D | 07:58 |
| FourFire | and you know where being rich comes from? | 07:58 |
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| FourFire | you got it. exploitation | 07:58 |
| FourFire | and you know why rich people are rich | 07:58 |
| aelinoea | because they want to hold their status of being rich? | 07:59 |
| aelinoea | and their funds | 07:59 |
| FourFire | it's because they are smart enough and not too lazy to build and maintain exploitive systems | 07:59 |
| FourFire | or they are just the kids of people who are | 07:59 |
| FourFire | my point is, that to be a rich, exploitive person, you have to be hard working, smart and perseverance | 08:00 |
| FourFire | so even if rich people are "evil"* they are certainly not stupid and lazy | 08:00 |
| aelinoea | well if intelligence is measured in the amount of money that you generate then yes they are not stupid | 08:00 |
| aelinoea | but there are plenty of hard working people who never ask anything for their services | 08:01 |
| FourFire | *a word which has too many built up connotations for me to use it in a serious discussion | 08:01 |
| FourFire | yes, and they are great people | 08:01 |
| FourFire | like the contributors to the open source community | 08:01 |
| FourFire | but we never hear anything about them | 08:01 |
| FourFire | or if we do, they are severely criticized as much as praised | 08:02 |
| gradstudentbot | Where are the hot plates? | 08:03 |
| FourFire | intelligence is hard to measure, IQ tests and other tests only measure a persons ability to score high in those specific tests. evolutionary success and memetic success are other ways to measure intelligence or how much a person is worth | 08:04 |
| FourFire | by memetic success I mean "% of humanity which has heard about this person" | 08:05 |
| FourFire | Loads more people have probably heard about Bill Gates than Linus Torvalds | 08:05 |
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| FourFire | so even when a lesser know person, like Linus comes up with some amazing revolutionary idea, fewer people will hear, and go "yes, let's do this" | 08:06 |
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| FourFire | aelinoea, I'm going to leave now, and next time, be more charitable and understanding. | 08:07 |
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| aelinoea | charitable as in charity? does he want money? | 08:10 |
| chris_99 | no | 08:10 |
| aelinoea | no excuses for creating proprietary futures | 08:10 |
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| kanzure | "split ergonomic keyboard" http://ergodox.org/ | 08:27 |
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| kanzure | thta conversation was completely boring and i think we should ban both FourFire and aelinoea | 08:33 |
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| aelinoea | kanzure: sure bring it on, I have nothing to loose | 08:39 |
| aelinoea | by being banned from this channel | 08:39 |
| kanzure | btw why are you here or how did you find this place? | 08:40 |
| aelinoea | sure sure, this is such an inside channel that there are no traces outside of it | 08:40 |
| aelinoea | https://encrypted.google.com/#q=%23%23hplusroadmap | 08:42 |
| aelinoea | beware, anyone could come in! | 08:42 |
| aelinoea | this channel is not even +s | 08:42 |
| aelinoea | or do you want to know the people who made the mistake of telling me XD in which case I will not tell | 08:43 |
| superkuh | paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel6/8258/25864/01149588.pdf | 08:43 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/2df69781d09aad454f6f1554e4ea7ba4.pdf | 08:43 |
| kanzure | aelinoea: i don't understand at all, please be more clear | 08:49 |
| kanzure | aelinoea: yes i am aware that this is a channel that other people are capable of knowing about, but that's not what i was asking you about? | 08:49 |
| aelinoea | when being threatened do you really think I would give you further information to identify the people who told me about this channel | 08:49 |
| aelinoea | as I said, you can exercise your internet powers all you want by banning me | 08:50 |
| kanzure | okay, so someone told you about the channel, and then you joined because ?? | 08:50 |
| aelinoea | "at last I can exert my power over someone else, even if it is in the internet!" | 08:51 |
| kanzure | or, you left around because ?? | 08:51 |
| aelinoea | because I am interested in the topic | 08:51 |
| aelinoea | and as I can see, the channel has total of 74 people in it and most of them have not really talked anything during the time I have been here and I don't see any sign saying idling is not allowed | 08:52 |
| kanzure | my complaint about you is not about idling :) | 08:52 |
| aelinoea | well yes I understand, if you want to have an quiet channel the be my guest | 08:53 |
| aelinoea | n | 08:53 |
| kanzure | huh? | 08:53 |
| aelinoea | well once upon a time people were talking to each other | 08:54 |
| aelinoea | right? | 08:54 |
| aelinoea | not idling | 08:54 |
| aelinoea | those times were glorious | 08:54 |
| aelinoea | people interacting! | 08:54 |
| aelinoea | nowdays noone talks in irc | 08:54 |
| aelinoea | except for some personal few people klicks | 08:54 |
| kanzure | are we talking about a new topic, or are you still trying to guess why i wanted to ban you? | 08:54 |
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| aelinoea | iirc you have not said why you wanted to ban me | 08:55 |
| kanzure | i didn't say that i did | 08:55 |
| aelinoea | you have a strange way of communicating to people | 08:55 |
| kanzure | i say things that i mean and then you totally ignore what i write | 08:55 |
| gradstudentbot | Don't mess with me, I'm a world pipetting champion 14 years running. | 08:56 |
| aelinoea | dude seriously, do you enjoy being all alone? | 08:56 |
| aelinoea | having an empty channel? | 08:56 |
| kanzure | this channel is not empty or lonely :) | 08:56 |
| aelinoea | you started exerting your power by threatning to ban people | 08:56 |
| kanzure | don't worry about that | 08:56 |
| aelinoea | haha well seems to be so, there has not been a lot of talking for few weeks | 08:56 |
| kanzure | you should double check the logs | 08:57 |
| aelinoea | considering the fact there are 73 people here | 08:57 |
| kanzure | are you entelechios? | 08:57 |
| aelinoea | and now when there are talking it is only some angry op wanting tho show his/her power | 08:57 |
| aelinoea | oh someone else has been a heretic? | 08:57 |
| aelinoea | if entelechios is a person who parted the channel for whatever reason you must be a real paranoid guy believing that I would be entelechios :D | 08:58 |
| aelinoea | or just still attached to the person | 08:58 |
| kanzure | he's just really bad at running a stable irc client | 08:58 |
| kanzure | so he reconnects whenever his laptop opens or some shit | 08:58 |
| aelinoea | "maybe ent came back but with a diff name!!!" | 08:58 |
| aelinoea | sorry, I am not that person | 08:58 |
| kanzure | no that's not what i said at all | 08:58 |
| kanzure | i am aware of the possibility of multiple irc connections initiated by the same person | 08:59 |
| kanzure | i didn't say he came back | 08:59 |
| aelinoea | just joking on your behalf, I don't see how this is related to transhumanism at all | 08:59 |
| kanzure | i hate you for the way you misinterpret literally everything i say | 08:59 |
| aelinoea | do you want to talk about improving the human condition? | 08:59 |
| aelinoea | if yes, then you may be on the right channel | 08:59 |
| aelinoea | if not then I guess there is offtopic channel for general chat | 08:59 |
| kanzure | actually, improving humanity's condition is sort of off topic, in a vague sense | 09:00 |
| aelinoea | if you want to exercise your internetpowers then I suggest you go to the gym instead | 09:00 |
| kanzure | all of that democratic-transhumanism stuff is a pile of garbage perpetuated to sell more of james hughes' books | 09:00 |
| aelinoea | :D well creating proprietary futures is only slaving the people involved so I am not really interested in being part of trapping myself | 09:01 |
| aelinoea | to any junk that is not open-ended | 09:01 |
| kanzure | slaving people? | 09:01 |
| kanzure | proprietary futures? | 09:01 |
| aelinoea | well if you dig limitations.... | 09:01 |
| kanzure | you are just incomprehensible please fuck off and leave | 09:01 |
| aelinoea | what a dirty fetish though | 09:01 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ | 09:01 | |
| aelinoea | cya :D | 09:01 |
| @kanzure | thanks. | 09:01 |
| aelinoea | I suggest you start exercising irl, pressing a button does not require really anything and everyone can do it :) | 09:02 |
| aelinoea | yeayeayea I know, facing your own weaknesses sucks eh? and it requires hard work to gain results | 09:03 |
| aelinoea | even with steroids | 09:03 |
| aelinoea | so better just talk about tech in the internet as it is far more easier and gain that lost feeling of authority by opping yourself :D | 09:03 |
| @kanzure | you're really boring can you please troll better | 09:03 |
| aelinoea | so what is so interesting to you eh? | 09:04 |
| aelinoea | what kinda topic makes your juices flow | 09:04 |
| @kanzure | please talk about how i am power tripping and how i am "enslaving humanity" with my "nanotech wizardry" | 09:04 |
| aelinoea | not the whole humanity, but creating limits to you and someone else is kinda against transhumanitys principles at least according to the wikipedia article | 09:04 |
| aelinoea | so I guess what you are doing is just general nerdiness | 09:05 |
| aelinoea | Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies. | 09:05 |
| aelinoea | didyou read that part about "human limitations" | 09:05 |
| aelinoea | I seeyou did not | 09:05 |
| aelinoea | by creating proprietary futures and proprietary code you are creating limitations | 09:05 |
| aelinoea | not open-ended possibilities | 09:05 |
| aelinoea | :) | 09:05 |
| gradstudentbot | Hey, let's write a paper about that. | 09:06 |
| aelinoea | of maybe you want to edit that part out of the wiki? | 09:06 |
| @kanzure | btw the wikipedia article has been under the control of a single person for about five years now and suffers greatly from editorializing | 09:06 |
| aelinoea | hahaha sure try to bend that to your own advantage all you want, but I would think majority of transhumanists would agree about the ridding of human limitations part | 09:06 |
| aelinoea | and creating something as closed source is a limitation by definition | 09:07 |
| @kanzure | i am not trying to bend anything, you're fucking impossible to talk with | 09:07 |
| aelinoea | yes, good luck starting conversations by threathening people :D | 09:07 |
| aelinoea | try that with someone outside of your room will you? | 09:08 |
| aelinoea | see if they dig that "hey how about I punch you to your face?" | 09:08 |
| aelinoea | either they will ignore you, call the cops or punch you to your face for starting it | 09:09 |
| aelinoea | if your idea of talking is threathening others then you are not a good person and able to really communicate, and if you think that the conversation was so boring then maybe tell me why it was boring? | 09:10 |
| aelinoea | that would have been talking | 09:10 |
| aelinoea | also I think these discussions are logged and published in the net so everyone searching for kanzure might be able to read this :D | 09:10 |
| aelinoea | good rep | 09:11 |
| aelinoea | and if it was so boring, people are not here to entertain you | 09:14 |
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| aelinoea | if you want to be entertained then I suggest you watching some show designed to numb your brain | 09:15 |
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| pasky | yay, https://github.com/brmson/blanqa got to the point of "This was the last missing bit to achieve a fully working (though very basic) NLP pipeline for question answering. Many improvements remain, but in principle, BlanQA can now answer a general question on an arbitrary text file snippet." | 09:42 |
| pasky | (not that it'd be very good at it) | 09:42 |
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| n_bentha | kanzure, you slaver! :P | 12:53 |
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| @kanzure | indeed, for as long as i can remember my true goal in life was to enslave the human race and force them to upload their brains into /dev/null or something | 13:09 |
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| jrayhawk | to be fair, having consciousness makes us harder to harvest for meat | 14:38 |
| @kanzure | definitely an inconvenience | 14:39 |
| nsh | but easier to harvest for ad revenue | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | nsh: still a free man? | 14:41 |
| nsh | for some value thereof | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | "large and in charge" is the only acceptable answer | 14:41 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:42 | |
| @kanzure | show me cool things? | 14:42 |
| jrayhawk | are court filings cool things? | 14:42 |
| nsh | some of them | 14:42 |
| nsh | e.g. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/chicago7/chicago7.html | 14:43 |
| @kanzure | "the 1969-70 trial of seven radicals accused of conspiring to incite a democracy at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago" | 14:44 |
| jrayhawk | "arrested by British police in Suffolk and released on bail until February." | 14:44 |
| jrayhawk | ah, okay | 14:44 |
| jrayhawk | very limited value thereof indeed | 14:44 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:45 | |
| @kanzure | once they rule in your favor maybe they will slap some really cool novelty judgement on you, | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | like "can't use the number 7 for the rest of his life" | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | or that poor guy who couldn't use "encryption" | 14:46 |
| FourFire | kanzure, what? | 14:47 |
| nsh | lysobit (tflow). he also has to report the "serial numbers" of any computers he uses | 14:47 |
| nsh | under a Serious Crime Prevention Order | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | so is that a serial number of each part? | 14:47 |
| nsh | (ie, do what we say, because...) | 14:47 |
| nsh | just "the computer" | 14:47 |
| nsh | so he was trying to figure out what to tell them for a VPS today | 14:48 |
| nsh | which reports no serials via the software | 14:48 |
| nsh | or maybe it's a dedicated server, but in any case | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | if he starts a company that spins up a thousand VMs, does he have to print out numbers on paper? | 14:48 |
| nsh | good question. might be a fun experiment... | 14:49 |
| FourFire | who is this referrng to and why must they report the "serial numbers" ? | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | do they count phones as a computer that must be documented? | 14:50 |
| nsh | FourFire, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Al-Bassam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_Crime_Act_2007#Serious_crime_prevention_orders | 14:50 |
| nsh | maybe smartphones | 14:51 |
| FourFire | give him a rpi? | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | any judge would definitely consider an rpi to be a compuster | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | computer | 14:51 |
| nsh | they stole my rpi :( | 14:52 |
| nsh | i hadn't even started to play with it | 14:52 |
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| FourFire | "Conducted himself in a way that was likely to facilitate the commission by himself or another person of a serious offence, whether or not such an offence was committed." is way too slippery for me to want to live in england | 14:52 |
| FourFire | "you were on halmstreet the day before the bank robbery, correct?" | 14:53 |
| nsh | technically, the US could demand my extradition on the basis of made-up evidence (hearsay) for a made-up crime (conspiracy) | 14:54 |
| FourFire | oh, nsh you are awaiting judgement? | 14:54 |
| nsh | fortunately, they're not in the mood to push their luck yet | 14:55 |
| nsh | i'm awaiting.. something :) | 14:55 |
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| nsh | either rebail (kick the can), reinterview, charge, or some combination | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | what? you haven't been charged? | 14:55 |
| nsh | nope | 14:56 |
| nsh | well, not in the UK | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | ah got it | 14:56 |
| nsh | i've been charged in some stupid totalitarian regime the best response to which i can muster is "lol" | 14:56 |
| FourFire | what's all this about? | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | just a bunch of drama | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | it will pass in time | 14:56 |
| * nsh nods | 14:56 | |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 14:56 | |
| FourFire | I look forward to one perk of brain enhancement: you will be able yo *know* every single law in every place without being a laywer | 14:57 |
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| kanzure | uh.. unlikely. | 14:57 |
| kanzure | in many places there is an incomplete written record | 14:57 |
| FourFire | I mean, like exocortex enhancement | 14:57 |
| kanzure | so how would you *possibly* know things that are not documented | 14:57 |
| FourFire | oh, well if They don't know, then they can't charge you for it | 14:58 |
| kanzure | oh my :) | 14:58 |
| kanzure | well okay | 14:58 |
| FourFire | that would be crazy, like making up stuff just to | 14:58 |
| kanzure | go on... | 14:58 |
| FourFire | if this happens it is Wrong! | 14:58 |
| FourFire | if this happens to me, I will make a very big noise about it and people will get in trouble | 14:58 |
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| eudoxia | i seriously doubt that | 14:59 |
| kanzure | which part? | 14:59 |
| eudoxia | the second one | 14:59 |
| eudoxia | not the first one | 14:59 |
| * FourFire one moment, needs to go fix their brain a bit | 14:59 | |
| kanzure | sorry, i don't know what you're numbering :) | 15:00 |
| eudoxia | the part where people get in trouble | 15:00 |
| eudoxia | what fourfire said right after i logged in | 15:00 |
| eudoxia | s/after/before | 15:00 |
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| FourFire | please specify exactly what you were implying when you said "in many places there is an incomplete written record" | 15:01 |
| gradstudentbot | The paper was rejected. | 15:01 |
| eudoxia | hahahaha oh gradbot | 15:01 |
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| kanzure | well, secret courts come to mind | 15:02 |
| FourFire | eudoxia, sorry I'm suffering som mild mental instability, be better soon | 15:02 |
| kanzure | uhuh.. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: what have you been playing with lately? | 15:03 |
| eudoxia | i've been writing an ORM, but nothing transhumanism-related :c | 15:03 |
| kanzure | which language is the ORM targeted for? | 15:04 |
| eudoxia | do you mean, does it output SQL or something else? | 15:04 |
| kanzure | i mean which language do i have to use to use your orm | 15:05 |
| eudoxia | Common Lisp | 15:05 |
| kanzure | have you ever used sqlalchemy? | 15:05 |
| kanzure | it's not for lisp mind you | 15:05 |
| eudoxia | i know it's python | 15:05 |
| eudoxia | no i've only used the Django ORM, but one of the guys at work gave us a talk about SQLAlchemy | 15:05 |
| eudoxia | i'm guessing you are asking to make sure I implemented all the ORM best-practices from sqlalchemy? | 15:06 |
| kanzure | my main complaint about django's orm is that it's tied to django. so if you want to use any of your models in a non-web-context you're fucked. | 15:06 |
| kanzure | eh, sort of | 15:06 |
| kanzure | there's some things in sqlalchemy that could probably be dumped | 15:06 |
| kanzure | the session pooling could be simplified dramatically | 15:06 |
| kanzure | and the concept of "metadata" | 15:06 |
| kanzure | (metadata seems like this bucket where everything was dumped.. what's so meta about that?) | 15:07 |
| eudoxia | well, i haven't played with it much so i can't really say | 15:07 |
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| kanzure | are there any good orms for lisp? | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | "non-web-tied Django ORM for Lisp" was kind of what I was going for anyways | 15:08 |
| kanzure | by good i mean: decoupled from the database, not deep-tied into a web framework | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | no, none really (otherwise I wouldn't have written this) | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | there's CLSQL, which has terrible threading, and Postmodern, which is Postgres specific | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | and none of them have migrations :c | 15:08 |
| kanzure | so most lispers just pass around dictionaries? | 15:08 |
| kanzure | migrations are probably out-of-scope though- what if you're using some nosql thing where you don't need to migrate data? | 15:09 |
| eudoxia | i guess most just do raw SQL, and in any case there aren't many web dev projects using Common Lisp | 15:09 |
| kanzure | even sqlalchemy dumps it on other tools (sqlalchemy-migrate, alembic) | 15:09 |
| eudoxia | well, sure, unless you only want to target SQL databases | 15:09 |
| eudoxia | i wrote mine with migrations out-of-the-box, which i suspect will bite me in the butt one day | 15:10 |
| kanzure | will already bite you if you attempt to support sqlite | 15:10 |
| eudoxia | yeah | 15:10 |
| kanzure | dunno why i ever bothered with sqlite | 15:11 |
| eudoxia | i think i can work around it by doing a CREATE TABLE FROM, destroying the old table, and renaming the new table | 15:11 |
| kanzure | "yeah making my development environment unlike my production environment sounds like a barrel of fun" wrong | 15:11 |
| eudoxia | i mean it's useful if you're writing a desktop application | 15:11 |
| eudoxia | but yeah, for server environments, just use postgres | 15:11 |
| eudoxia | or whatever else that isn't sqlite | 15:11 |
| kanzure | you could still use postgresql in that situation.. firefox had sqlite (still does?) and they have to do dumb workarounds consistently. | 15:11 |
| eudoxia | i think FF still has sqlite | 15:12 |
| eudoxia | i guess it's for the windows crowd? | 15:12 |
| nsh | both FF and chromium/chrome use sqlite still | 15:13 |
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| FourFire | alright, I think I might be better now | 15:29 |
| FourFire | yeah so as I was saying, little lump of fallacy there, also naiveté | 15:29 |
| FourFire | so in which cases is it applicable for a court to invent new laws? | 15:30 |
| FourFire | and tell me about secret courts as I have never heard of those before today | 15:30 |
| eudoxia | NSA warrant mills | 15:32 |
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| jrayhawk | And, more importantly, there are plenty of extrajudicial means of prosecution. | 15:59 |
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| kanzure | in some jurisdictions it costs a substantial amount per page to read case law | 16:00 |
| kanzure | and even if you did have the data, it's mostly worthless because it's just piles of crap | 16:00 |
| kanzure | (not that this means that i think having the data is worthless itself; just that the data is annoying) | 16:00 |
| jrayhawk | Such as e.g. dragging cases out until defense witnesses disappear, leveraging authoritarian trust, incentivizing bad testimony, etc. etc. etc. | 16:01 |
| FourFire | using narrow AI to compress the data into instrumental knowledge could help | 16:02 |
| FourFire | (but then I only specified exocortexes initially) | 16:02 |
| jrayhawk | Plus fiddling with ambiguities in the law such as 'possession' vs. 'trafficing', 'abetting', 'conspiracy', 'disturbing the peace', etc. | 16:03 |
| jrayhawk | The law is not a programming language. | 16:03 |
| FourFire | http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-a-Codependent-Family-Member exists | 16:03 |
| FourFire | if this is helpful I will do a good deed! | 16:03 |
| jrayhawk | Things are super-weird in the land of divorce proceedings. Nothing resembling law even exists. | 16:04 |
| FourFire | in which country ? | 16:05 |
| jrayhawk | In common law countries. I realize now that you're in Norway and I have no idea what that's like. | 16:05 |
| nsh | cold and socialist | 16:06 |
| nsh | (with a great pension scheme) | 16:07 |
| jrayhawk | International treaties are another hilarious one; typically they are criminally enforcable, but there's no requirement that they have any sort of objective standard of violation. | 16:12 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.aspx is a fun read. | 16:13 |
| FourFire | oh yeah we have socialism | 16:13 |
| FourFire | high taxes (but you get used to it, it's normal) | 16:13 |
| FourFire | and great things like being paid to go to school | 16:13 |
| FourFire | (not much mind, but paid) | 16:13 |
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| jrayhawk | "skatt" is honomynous with an English word for "shit" | 16:14 |
| jrayhawk | homonymous | 16:15 |
| jrayhawk | words | 16:15 |
| gradstudentbot | Sigh, my invasive fruit flies won’t have sex for me. | 16:16 |
| FourFire | jrayhawk, phonetically perhaps, but treasure is the meaning | 16:36 |
| FourFire | and the kings treasure is of some value, when it consists of black gold | 16:36 |
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| entelechios | anyone in here have any thoughts on the medea hypothesis | 22:49 |
| entelechios | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_hypothesis | 22:49 |
| n_bentha | interesting...but the idea has some notion of 'intent' which I am very skeptikal of | 22:56 |
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| entelechios | n_bentha: same here, i think the wikipedia article waters it down some | 23:07 |
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| n_bentha | well im out. have a good night | 23:07 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jan 19 00:00:41 2014 | ||
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