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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | banned by the Federal Death Administration | official paperbot fan club | 03:31 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sat Mar 23 20:40:45 2013] | 03:31 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 03:31 | |
| [@fenn ] [ cthulu ] [ HEx1 ] [ nuba_ ] [ saurik ] [ utopiah ] | 03:31 | |
| [ AlterSid ] [ curt1s ] [ ivan` ] [ oblique ] [ sivoais ] [ Viper168] | 03:31 | |
| [ AngryBird123] [ devrandom ] [ JayDugger ] [ paperbot ] [ smeaaagle ] [ Vutral ] | 03:31 | |
| [ archels` ] [ docl ] [ jrayhawk ] [ ParahSailin] [ strages ] [ wallmani] | 03:31 | |
| [ augur_ ] [ drazak ] [ juri_ ] [ pasky_ ] [ strangewarp] [ xp_prg2 ] | 03:31 | |
| [ balrog ] [ drewbot ] [ juul ] [ phryk ] [ streety ] [ ybit ] | 03:31 | |
| [ bkero ] [ drewbug ] [ Lemminkainen] [ Qfwfq ] [ superkuh ] [ yoleaux ] | 03:31 | |
| [ blueskin ] [ ElixirVitae] [ lichen ] [ realzies ] [ Twey ] [ Zhwazi ] | 03:31 | |
| [ brownies ] [ gnusha ] [ nicotiana_b ] [ rigel_ ] [ uberj ] | 03:31 | |
| [ catern ] [ heath ] [ nmz787 ] [ ruphos ] [ upgrayeddd ] | 03:31 | |
| [ cpopell ] [ helleshin ] [ nsh ] [ ryankarason] [ Urchin ] | 03:31 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 63 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 62 normal] | 03:31 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 03:31 | |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | banned by the Federal Death Administration | official paperbot fan club | 05:28 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sat Mar 23 20:40:45 2013] | 05:28 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 05:28 | |
| [ AlterSid ] [ cpopell ] [ heath ] [ nicotiana_b] [ ryankarason] [ Urchin ] | 05:28 | |
| [ AngryBird123] [ cthulu ] [ helleshin ] [ nsh ] [ saurik ] [ utopiah ] | 05:28 | |
| [ archels` ] [ curt1s ] [ HEx1 ] [ nuba_ ] [ sivoais ] [ Viper168 ] | 05:28 | |
| [ augur_ ] [ devrandom ] [ ivan` ] [ oblique ] [ smeaaagle ] [ Viper168_] | 05:28 | |
| [ balrog ] [ docl ] [ JayDugger ] [ ParahSailin] [ strages ] [ Vutral ] | 05:28 | |
| [ bkero ] [ drazak ] [ jrayhawk ] [ pasky_ ] [ strangewarp] [ wallmani ] | 05:28 | |
| [ blueskin ] [ drewbot ] [ juri_ ] [ phryk ] [ streety ] [ xp_prg2 ] | 05:28 | |
| [ brownies ] [ drewbug ] [ juul ] [ Qfwfq ] [ superkuh ] [ ybit ] | 05:28 | |
| [ Burnin8 ] [ ElixirVitae] [ kanzure ] [ realzies ] [ Twey ] [ yoleaux ] | 05:28 | |
| [ catern ] [ entelechios] [ Lemminkainen] [ rigel_ ] [ uberj ] [ yorick ] | 05:28 | |
| [ chris_99 ] [ gnusha ] [ lichen ] [ ruphos ] [ upgrayeddd ] [ Zhwazi ] | 05:28 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 66 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 66 normal] | 05:28 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 05:28 | |
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| kanzure | ugh | 07:45 |
|---|---|---|
| ParahSailin | ? | 07:52 |
| kanzure | that's not the first thought that runs into your head when you wake up? | 07:54 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad/pull/18 | 07:57 |
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| kyknos_ | muad | 09:29 |
| kyknos_ | where is paperbot??? | 09:29 |
| kanzure | in the shop | 09:30 |
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| chris_99 | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1682852725/the-starfire-space-cannon | 09:43 |
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| kyknos_ | summon paperbot | 09:46 |
| kyknos_ | i need a way to get these articles : http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/01955616 | 09:47 |
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| kyknos_ | :( | 10:32 |
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| kanzure | these things are useful: | 11:21 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/yeoman/generator-angular/issues/109?source=c | 11:21 |
| kanzure | http://clintberry.com/2013/modular-angularjs-application-design/ | 11:21 |
| kanzure | http://briantford.com/blog/angular-bower.html | 11:21 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/angular/angular-component-spec | 11:21 |
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| kanzure | blah https://github.com/aaronallport/generator-angular-require/issues/11 | 12:28 |
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| kardan | hey, what's your favourite open phone device? | 13:04 |
| jrayhawk | voting neo900 | 13:11 |
| jrayhawk | The Jolla phone will probably be better once it gets a keyboard backpack. | 13:11 |
| jrayhawk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91535 various and sundry brainstormings on that front | 13:13 |
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| kardan | cool, will add it here https://we.riseup.net/opensourcehardware/index#phones | 13:22 |
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| kardan | http://redecentralize.org/interviews/2013/08/14/04-paul-serval.html Paul Gardner-Stephen - Serval ProjectPaul Gardner-Stephen talks about the Serval Project, which lets mobile phones make calls without a cell tower. He gives real examples of it being used in disasters today. | 13:28 |
| kanzure | whois kardan | 13:29 |
| kardan | hi kanzure | 13:29 |
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| ParahSailin | juul around? | 13:30 |
| kanzure | juul: ping | 13:30 |
| kardan | you won't remember, but I still have you in my jabber list .) | 13:31 |
| kardan | since 2008 or so | 13:32 |
| kanzure | are you jer? | 13:32 |
| kardan | i am interested in phone tech without gsm or using encrypted layers on top of gprs/.. | 13:33 |
| kardan | no, I am kardan :) | 13:33 |
| jrayhawk | oh, jolla isn't open hardware, just very community-oriented open software | 13:34 |
| kardan | never heard of to be honest | 13:36 |
| kardan | but n900.org looks quite similar regarding hardware design | 13:36 |
| kardan | (case) | 13:36 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, the neo900 is a replacement mainboard for the n900. | 13:37 |
| jrayhawk | Because manufacturing anything besides circuitboards is obscenely expensive without volume. | 13:37 |
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| kardan | it's a quite clever strategie to have multiple cases for the gta04 | 13:38 |
| kardan | would love to see something like tricorders with dozens of sensors like geiger tubes and sweet leds for radiation alerts | 13:40 |
| jrayhawk | I'm hoping the Jolla concept of i2c backpacks takes off. | 13:40 |
| jrayhawk | USB would also be fine, I guess. | 13:41 |
| jrayhawk | Thankfully lots of stuff supports USB host mode or even OTG these days. | 13:41 |
| zormigl | hi all, if any french diy bio enthousiast among us, here's a freshly posted vid on utbe for a "biopunk manifesto" -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5UGN3cD9JE&feature=youtu.be | 13:47 |
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| juri_ | kanzure: do you consider it immoral to sell the service of writing free software captcha breakers? | 13:49 |
| kardan | there are surely better projects | 13:51 |
| jrayhawk | the paperclip optimizer that actually destroys the world will be warring systems of captcha creation and defeat | 13:51 |
| jrayhawk | so, eminently moral. BRING IT ON. | 13:51 |
| kanzure | juri_: http://deathbycaptcha.com/ is my go-to service | 13:53 |
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| kanzure | juri_: it's immoral to write structurally awful code, but probably not immoral to sell your time spent writing captcha breaking stuff | 13:54 |
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| kanzure | zormigl: is this maradydd's biopunk manifesto or is it a different one? | 13:54 |
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| kardan | interesting 'research' project *cough* | 13:55 |
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| kardan | along with a 24/7 team of CAPTCHA solvers <= it is defnitively amoral to keep captcha apes | 13:57 |
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| kanzure | what if this is their way of being gainfully employed? | 13:58 |
| kanzure | some of us are good at typing words http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure | 13:59 |
| kanzure | (i certainly prefer software of course) | 14:00 |
| jrayhawk | a typeracer for captchas would be pretty funny | 14:01 |
| kanzure | typeracer.com has captchas that they throw at you when you have typed 20% faster than your highest score | 14:01 |
| kanzure | they are multi-paragraph poorly-scanned captchas from books :( | 14:01 |
| kanzure | and they don't auto-submit, so you have to be fast enough to type it and also click the submit button | 14:01 |
| kanzure | it is an exercise in frustration | 14:02 |
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| kanzure | and it's probably feeding straight into a captcha solving service, yeah | 14:03 |
| kanzure | dnsnmc thing https://github.com/okTurtles/dnschain | 14:09 |
| kanzure | http://dns.dnschain.net/id/greg | 14:10 |
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| kardan | you are pasting links faster than my connection shows them | 14:20 |
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| kanzure | i am not pasting anything. i type my links. | 14:21 |
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| kardan | heh, being among top 30 probably qualifies you as terrorist | 14:22 |
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| kanzure | i believe that if i qualify for that title then it is for other and more interesting reasons | 14:22 |
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| * kardan bets their criteria are quite virtual | 14:23 | |
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| juri_ | kanzure: just a sign of the times. | 14:24 |
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| @kanzure | damn why didn't that work | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | his client wasn't in this channel why would it reconnect and rejoin | 14:25 |
| juri_ | maybe it didn't see the kick. | 14:26 |
| -!- justanotheruser was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [justanotheruser] | 14:26 | |
| kardan | honestly, how do we prevent that its getting worse effectively - dictatorship is imminent | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | yawn | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | just drop more "riseup" links, that'll help | 14:26 |
| juri_ | preaching to the choir. | 14:27 |
| @kanzure | write more code | 14:27 |
| kardan | good point | 14:27 |
| kardan | give people tools and they will use them without asking | 14:28 |
| kardan | and pay for them | 14:28 |
| kardan | but thats only bit of it. it will not stop clustering of power structures. | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | ugh you misinterpreted me | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | i meant to say something like "your rhetoric is boring and not useful, write more code instead of spinning rhetoric" | 14:31 |
| kardan | mh, I am writing also articles. is this boring as well? | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | i don't know what are your articles about | 14:32 |
| kardan | I mean, my bash scripts will not necessarily end wars and nuclear stuff. | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | i'm sure at least one bash script has been used in drafting or writing at least one international treaty somewhere at somepoint | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | *some point | 14:33 |
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| kardan | Is this effective? If you read a bit about deep state in germany I doubt that code alone will overcome. its about how people use their money as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Underground | 14:39 |
| kardan | sorry for being boring, btw | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | are you really sorry :( | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | 14:37 <justanotheruser> sorry, I'll leave until my connection is fixed | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | huh he was actually around | 14:39 |
| kardan | yes, because I don't know how to talk about it otherwise. | 14:40 |
| kardan | maybe I can learn from you | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | huh? | 14:40 |
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| @kanzure | i am really annoyed by javascript at the moment and this is impairing my ability to figure out what you're actually trying to imply or talk about. | 14:42 |
| kardan | i see three options: direct actions, tools and writing news. | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | it seems to be some social activism agenda | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | (and it annoys me that it's not explicit) | 14:42 |
| kardan | yeah, exactly. 2050 I want to live in a world without agencies and such. Therefor I try to find out how to get there :) | 14:43 |
| @kanzure | autonomous self-agency seems like a rather important concept | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | why would you not want this.. | 14:44 |
| @kanzure | (most people do not make up activism agendas about destroying personal agency) | 14:45 |
| kardan | OTG, ok. they probably don't care about people in the woods. you can do, it will not hurt their agenda. | 14:45 |
| @kanzure | who's agenda? | 14:45 |
| kardan | elites .. wars for resources, surveillance and so on | 14:45 |
| @kanzure | ah yes the saiyan elite have always been a pesky problem. | 14:46 |
| kardan | whats saiyan? | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | it's a joke at your expense | 14:46 |
| kardan | it's ok but I don't get it. | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | framing the problems of modern society as a elite/not-elite struggle is bullshit and demonstrates a lack of clarity about self-organization or something | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | but i am really bad at talking with you and i'm going to stop now because i think i hate you | 14:48 |
| kardan | you won't believe I go that path already - growing plants, setting up heat composts for warm water to heat my house, writing guides and tools for secure communication, etc. still I am worried. | 14:49 |
| * kardan hates consumers not caring for production conditions | 14:49 | |
| @kanzure | i don't care | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | consumers just means "people who have at one point in the past made a payment for something", it's a really extremely broad term | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | can you leave | 14:50 |
| kardan | for some reasons you try to raise bad feelings, while I try to connect for the good. | 14:51 |
| kardan | I can, kanzure. Have a good time. | 14:51 |
| kardan | only one point: consuming is a habit not to organize oneself. just easy. | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | you're worse than that venturecommunism guy | 14:53 |
| kardan | really sorry for that. how can I change it? | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | be more clear with your text, drop the fight against "elites" or "non-elites" or whatever side, figure out the root causes for problems instead of spewing bullshit on irc | 14:54 |
| kardan | please give me a real answer that helps not to annoy people in the future. | 14:54 |
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| @kanzure | his phone stuff was cool though | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | so he had that going for him | 14:55 |
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| kanzure | why is eleitl the only cool german we have? | 14:59 |
| kanzure | oh wait, maradydd is cool. but she never shows up in here anymore. | 14:59 |
| juri_ | you know, generally, i agree with kardan, assuming he shored up some of those slippery definitions, and did something other than set at the 'foot of the vorlon'. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | agree with him about what. be explicit. | 15:03 |
| juri_ | we have a massive social problem, around the concentration of financial resources. more money into less hands, every day. | 15:04 |
| kanzure | that's not very explicit.. are you angry that financial transactions compete against each other? | 15:07 |
| juri_ | i don't know what to do about it, i've been concentrated on building better tools, which are distributed in a manner a little different than the spread of financial resources. | 15:07 |
| kanzure | s/financial transactions/possible financial transactions/ | 15:07 |
| kanzure | well the first fucking thing to do is to define it instead of bullshitting me | 15:07 |
| kanzure | sigh. | 15:08 |
| juri_ | sure. let me get som statistics, because that's what we're really talking about. | 15:08 |
| kanzure | again though, "more money into less hands" can mean all sorts of things, like the distribution of transaction destinations is not what you would want it to be (and i don't even know what you're aiming for) | 15:08 |
| juri_ | i'm sure you'd much rather have references than bullshit pulled out of people's asses. :) | 15:08 |
| kanzure | and you're just extremely non-specific and it makes it impossible to have useful conversations.. | 15:08 |
| kanzure | i'm specifically looking for what your ideal target is | 15:08 |
| kanzure | s/the distribution of transaction destinations/the distribution of actually-unique transaction destinations/ | 15:09 |
| juri_ | my ideal target is financial resources in more hands, not less. the "out of my ass" statistics i'm upset about are 85% of people owning as much as 1/2 of the planet, and 300ish people owning as much as everyone else.. i'm looking for references, however. | 15:10 |
| juri_ | er. | 15:10 |
| juri_ | not 85% | 15:10 |
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| juri_ | 85 people. | 15:10 |
| kanzure | "my ideal target is financial resources in more hands, not less." that is still not specific, fuck you | 15:10 |
| juri_ | um, i'm not the one cursing here. | 15:10 |
| juri_ | if you are so upset about the issue, maybe you should observe your own emotional state. | 15:10 |
| kanzure | i feel i've been very equitable and specific when asking you for information | 15:10 |
| kanzure | oh please, you have no idea what my emotional state is right now | 15:11 |
| kanzure | (i'm very very happy. but for other reasons unrelated to you.) | 15:11 |
| juri_ | you seem to be expressing more emotion than i am. you've kicked one person, and are cussing at me. | 15:11 |
| kanzure | you're skipping everything else that has happened :) | 15:11 |
| kanzure | and i think that's intellectually dishonest | 15:11 |
| juri_ | i'm just offering to do some research, and try and bring light on what the other person / me are complaining about. | 15:11 |
| kanzure | no, before you offered to do research. this is what we are talking about. | 15:12 |
| kanzure | i haven't even replied to your offer, show me where i did | 15:12 |
| juri_ | you haven't. | 15:12 |
| kanzure | alright | 15:12 |
| juri_ | http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/20/oxfam-85-richest-people-half-of-the-world | 15:13 |
| kanzure | why should i look at this? you already made your claim. i'm willing to accept whatever claim you make about the distribution of wealth. | 15:13 |
| juri_ | if you're willing to accept the position then, don't bother looking. | 15:14 |
| kanzure | "my ideal target is financial resources in more hands, not less." so you are angry about the ability for the distribution to be uneven? can you be more exact | 15:14 |
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| juri_ | consider it me making sure the facts i'm dealing in are sourced. | 15:14 |
| pasky_ | heh kanzure's javascript annoyance must be real bad ;) | 15:14 |
| kanzure | oh man, fucking javascript | 15:14 |
| juri_ | i don't want to be slinging rumour and bullshit any more than anyone else. :) | 15:14 |
| kanzure | you still haven't replied | 15:15 |
| juri_ | thats because i was finding out the second datum i was tossing around cannot be sourced. | 15:15 |
| juri_ | so, you've done me at least that much of a favor. | 15:15 |
| kanzure | my question wasn't about a datum. | 15:15 |
| juri_ | yes, i would rather that the distribution of financial resources was more widely distributed. | 15:16 |
| juri_ | i'm not sure how to accomplish this, however. | 15:16 |
| kanzure | specifically can you tell me what type of curve you want | 15:16 |
| kanzure | a flat line? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | and anything less than a flat line is .. what? immoral? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | "elitist"? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | "evil"? | 15:17 |
| juri_ | you won't find me tossing around that term. elitism is an emotion, not a number. | 15:17 |
| kanzure | so what happens when someone spends some of their money | 15:17 |
| kanzure | suddenly they have less than the initial amount that everyone was given | 15:17 |
| kanzure | so the distribution is now skewed and "immoral"? | 15:18 |
| juri_ | statistically, the odds have said that any time someone spends money, its more likely to land in a certain set of hands than anyone else. | 15:18 |
| kanzure | so what | 15:18 |
| juri_ | this is the financial system we have come up with. | 15:19 |
| kanzure | you're impossible to talk with :( | 15:19 |
| kardan | juri_, it's probably not worth the time. from what I learned reading our talk several times kanzure's point is to not care about the big picture and being angry about people who do. | 15:19 |
| juri_ | you're too wound up right now to talk to. | 15:19 |
| juri_ | it ok, i've got time and patience. | 15:19 |
| kanzure | yeah sure, just claim i don't understand the big picture or that i don't care about it, that seems really easy and simple | 15:19 |
| juri_ | i'm just worried about upsetting you, so want to be careful what i say. | 15:19 |
| kanzure | why can't both of you be more like eleitl or something | 15:19 |
| kardan | kanzure. I know you understand it, but you don't care. I can live with it and won't argue about it. | 15:20 |
| kanzure | i think you are still failing to understand me | 15:20 |
| kanzure | i don't care about your particular formulation of what you think the proble mis | 15:20 |
| kanzure | *problem is | 15:20 |
| juri_ | i'm not willing to argue either, i'd much rather reason. :) | 15:20 |
| kanzure | your particular formulation has to compete with all the other explanations | 15:21 |
| juri_ | personal attacks are not necissary, nore conducive. | 15:21 |
| kanzure | i'm not going to accept it just because you are attached to it | 15:21 |
| kanzure | or because it would be polite | 15:21 |
| * pasky_ is also somewhat worried about the *fact* that the distribution of wealth is *so* uneven (very uneven is fine, but his feeling(!) is that it has never been as uneven as now)... ideally, top management wouldn't be so overpaid and the extra money would be distributed to shareholders or as wages, but he doesn't understand the system enough to know exactly what to tweak to fix this, maybe opening up the top management field to increase compet | 15:22 | |
| kanzure | your irc configuration is wrong | 15:22 |
| kardan | do you think, it's better not to care about money flows? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | pasky_: yes you might be worried but that's very different from pimping social activism in here just for the hell of it | 15:23 |
| pasky_ | ah so your complaint is just that it's offtopic? | 15:24 |
| kardan | it's great that we can change them, but to be effective, it helps to understand them first. | 15:24 |
| kanzure | and also that the demonstrated reasoning is bad and lazy | 15:24 |
| juri_ | kanzure: to answer your question, i'd rather see a distribution where X = Y, if X is people, and Y is finances. i don't want a flat distribution either. | 15:24 |
| juri_ | ok, where X = "merit as defined by society". | 15:24 |
| kanzure | juri_: so you're proposing a system where nobody could spend the money? why not just propose something that isn't money instead, fuck. | 15:24 |
| juri_ | right now, those at the extreme left side have a LOT more than all those on the right side. | 15:24 |
| kanzure | aaaaaa so much awful in here i am leaving | 15:24 |
| kardan | haha | 15:25 |
| pasky_ | juri_: "merit as defined by society" = "your income", so everything is all right | 15:26 |
| * kardan is going for some fair organic coffee *g* | 15:26 | |
| juri_ | now, i'm assuming that amount of money == merit, as defined by our society. in my ideal system, the richest person would have 1/7billionth of the money more than the next richest, and so on. | 15:26 |
| pasky_ | that's a really weird model | 15:27 |
| juri_ | mmm. i'm bad at explaining this on irc. :P | 15:27 |
| juri_ | maybe its me. i'll stop now. | 15:28 |
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| kardan | the killing argument of capitalism is that every idiot understand how money works. contrary to your model. | 15:42 |
| kanzure | what | 15:43 |
| kanzure | what the fuck does that even mean | 15:43 |
| kardan | that it's better to concentrate on how things work instead on how they should in some ideal system. | 15:44 |
| kanzure | whatever, i was just trying to figure out what the hell juri_ actually wanted | 15:44 |
| * kardan is surprised | 15:45 | |
| juri_ | i want a system where the distribution of wealth is more equal. right now, as we're talking about it, the more money one ha, the more likely one is to have more money in T+1, and the less money you have, the less money you are likely to have in T+1. | 15:45 |
| kanzure | "more equal".. if everyone's balance is set as a constant, then there's no way to transfer | 15:46 |
| juri_ | this has resulted in 85 people on the left side of 'have money' to have the ame amount of money as three billion people on the right side. this is 'immoral'. | 15:46 |
| kanzure | i posit that you don't actually want money | 15:46 |
| kanzure | because the way you have described what you want does not sound like money at all | 15:46 |
| kardan | juri_, you just need to find a way to gain money and then you can distribute equally. | 15:47 |
| kanzure | if your balance is a constant then it really doesn't have the same properties of what most people consider money (including bitcoiners) | 15:47 |
| kanzure | and it is wrong to tell me that it is | 15:47 |
| juri_ | kardan: i have not found ways to gain money that do not involve facilitating that transfer from those on the right side of 'have money' to those on the left side. | 15:47 |
| kardan | I can't follow your left/right thing. | 15:48 |
| juri_ | kanzure: you're probably right. | 15:48 |
| pasky_ | i also have trouble with left/right :) | 15:48 |
| * juri_ facepalms. | 15:48 | |
| juri_ | kardan: i have not found ways to gain money that do not involve facilitating that transfer from those who do not have money to those that do. | 15:49 |
| pasky_ | according to sometime earlier, left is rich, right is poor? | 15:49 |
| * juri_ nods. | 15:50 | |
| pasky_ | juri_: i was getting paid for doing a variety of work since i was young poor student (now i'm old poor student) | 15:50 |
| pasky_ | try it too | 15:50 |
| pasky_ | (poor but less poor than before ;) | 15:50 |
| kardan | it's probably easier not care where your money comes because at the end it's just some virtual debt to centrals that enable you and others to do things. | 15:51 |
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| kardan | but however you can also do things without. | 15:51 |
| kanzure | my bitcoin balance is not a debt | 15:51 |
| kanzure | you are a liar and i hate you | 15:51 |
| juri_ | i do a lot of things without, but there are things i still need money for, so i try to do whatever odd jobs. | 15:51 |
| pasky_ | kanzure: i begin to understand why you dislike social activism | 15:52 |
| kanzure | pasky_: go on | 15:52 |
| kardan | what happens if you leave it and convince your environment to do so as well? | 15:52 |
| juri_ | its because of the social activists. | 15:52 |
| juri_ | ;) | 15:52 |
| pasky_ | precisely! | 15:52 |
| pasky_ | seriously you guys don't make sense :) | 15:53 |
| kanzure | oh good it's not just me | 15:53 |
| kanzure | pasky_: they are both german | 15:53 |
| juri_ | kanzure: even i'll admit its not you. | 15:53 |
| kanzure | pasky_: (re: earlier comments about germans) | 15:53 |
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| kanzure | 14:59 < kanzure> why is eleitl the only cool german we have? | 15:53 |
| juri_ | technically i'm american. | 15:54 |
| kanzure | i was not making a statement about your citizenship | 15:54 |
| juri_ | and worse, from the third world in america (the deep, deep south). | 15:54 |
| kanzure | or, i didn't intend to make a statement about citizenship | 15:54 |
| kanzure | however, i can see how it could be misconstrued to be one, since eleitl does not have citizenship in the usa (actually i don't remember) | 15:54 |
| kardan | I don't get your point about nationality and I don't care at all. | 15:55 |
| kanzure | my point is that both you and juri_ are awful | 15:55 |
| kanzure | and i was comparing you to someone in here who tends to not be awful | 15:55 |
| juri_ | this is a hard subject to grapple with, and i'm not good at written explinations. it takes me many tries. | 15:55 |
| kanzure | germans are stereotyped to be very, uh, detail oriented in general | 15:56 |
| kanzure | and details are lacking for the past hour in here | 15:56 |
| kardan | thanks :) | 15:56 |
| juri_ | i have an educational deficit in that area, so my apologies. i'm struggling to keep up, but the very thing that leads one to oberve the 'problem' disturbs your ability to articulate it. | 15:56 |
| kanzure | deficit in what area | 15:56 |
| juri_ | I had no high school english education. my written word is not .. well articulated. i'm better in person. | 15:57 |
| juri_ | i also have nothing above 'applied math'. AKA, the math to run a cash register. | 15:57 |
| kanzure | that seems to be a lie because of the type of math i've seen you write software for | 15:58 |
| kanzure | direct evidence against that. total bullshit. | 15:58 |
| juri_ | so, discussions about statistics are not my strong point, even if i can witness the world 'around me' falling apart for what i believe is a problem, and one i can point at a specifit statistic and say "WTF". | 15:58 |
| juri_ | seriously! | 15:58 |
| juri_ | its all self taught, kanzure. | 15:59 |
| kanzure | and therefore doesn't count as education? | 15:59 |
| kanzure | wtf? | 15:59 |
| juri_ | no, but it does mean that its "more contrasted" than those who received an education. after all, as a software developer, you're looking for a solution to problem X, and therefore are more likely to learn just what you need to solve it. | 16:00 |
| juri_ | my education is 'sharper'. | 16:00 |
| juri_ | more peaks, more valeys. | 16:00 |
| kanzure | 15:27 < pasky_> that's a really weird model | 16:00 |
| juri_ | that would be why. i have a hard time expressing maths in english. | 16:01 |
| juri_ | english is also my second language... behind basic german. | 16:02 |
| kardan | pasky_, got your point. kanzure, regarding bitcoin you are right, but it's still virtual. | 16:02 |
| kanzure | what does virtual mean? | 16:03 |
| kardan | However it doesn't matter how you convince people to do things for you if they do. | 16:04 |
| pasky_ | what i'd expect in a reasonable discussion on this topic is identification of the *minimal* set of wrong things, and then the minimal (ideally, also achievable) tweak required to set things straight(er) | 16:04 |
| kardan | That's what I said - you don't need money for it. You can call it codyflowers. If they like time, they will do everything for it :) | 16:04 |
| kanzure | pasky_: i would accept a conversation without the suggested tweak- sometimes that is very difficult to figure out | 16:05 |
| kardan | s/time/them/ | 16:05 |
| pasky_ | i agree on that :) | 16:05 |
| kanzure | pasky_: the alternative to your expectation is almost incomprehensible to me. | 16:06 |
| kardan | that's a good advice. will try to build common ground in the beginning of a talk in the future. | 16:10 |
| kanzure | no, it wasn't about common ground | 16:10 |
| kardan | why should I trust you. you hate me. | 16:10 |
| kanzure | why would you have to trust me? | 16:11 |
| kanzure | i don't understand | 16:11 |
| juri_ | kanzure hates badly formed ideas. ;) | 16:11 |
| pasky_ | when i was a young teenager, during boring classes, with my best mate we used to fantasize how would we fix the world if we became benevolent world-wide dictators for life... that was fun then but i wouldn't consider it worth my time anymore ;) | 16:11 |
| kanzure | and badly formed people | 16:11 |
| juri_ | ideas shape who we are. | 16:11 |
| kardan | kanzure just tries to destroy people with great aims because of his own life. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | yep that must be it.. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | you're on to something | 16:13 |
| pasky_ | lol wtf | 16:13 |
| kardan | ok, then we found our minimal set of wrong things :) | 16:13 |
| juri_ | he is a bit harsh on those with different aims... but this is #hplusroadmap. this whole discussion is heavily offtopic, excepting the amount with which this economic injustice interferes with the works of those-who-do. | 16:13 |
| kanzure | juri_: it has a great deal of symmetry. suppose someone deployed a moonbrain in orbit. that person would have to deal with billions of assholes complaining about social justice of moonbrains. | 16:14 |
| juri_ | and you better believe, economic situations have an effect on how much work i get to do, and what work it is. i don't know about the rest of you. | 16:14 |
| kardan | More important than social justice is not to get killed by some armed idiots for me. | 16:17 |
| kanzure | is that your way of threatening me | 16:17 |
| kardan | I guess not. | 16:18 |
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| kanzure | the google search results for moonbrain are unfortunate | 16:18 |
| kardan | kanzure I am much less aggressive than you obviously. | 16:18 |
| entelechios | kanzure is a fucking asshole hahaha | 16:19 |
| entelechios | i've got respect nonetheless but | 16:19 |
| entelechios | reaaaaaaaaaaly dude | 16:19 |
| entelechios | it's not getting you anywhere | 16:19 |
| kanzure | i am completely uninterested in supporting bad ideas in here, and it's gotten this channel very far over the years. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | this is the longest-lived, most active transhumanist channel ever | 16:20 |
| entelechios | life choice: a - be gregarious, friendly and persuasive or b - act like a dick and pretend you're persuading people | 16:20 |
| kanzure | the concentration of raw talent in the transhumanist scene is really unheard of | 16:20 |
| entelechios | i agree | 16:20 |
| juri_ | kanzure: too bad some of that talent doesn't have capital. ;P | 16:20 |
| entelechios | it's almost so concentrated that if you put a drop of it on your tongue your life is over from the trip | 16:20 |
| kanzure | i told you to submit me a bill of materials and oyu never did, that's your own fault | 16:20 |
| juri_ | kanzure: not in my recolection. | 16:21 |
| entelechios | and i'm with kanzure that, yeah, people are so full of shit lol | 16:21 |
| juri_ | i'd think i would remember that. | 16:21 |
| kanzure | i hounded fenn for years about that but then he disappeared the moment he did | 16:21 |
| juri_ | the good news is, i don't consder having a good memory one of my strengths. | 16:22 |
| kanzure | http://fennetic.net/irc/cyberfenn/hplus_proposal/ | 16:22 |
| juri_ | kanzure: interested in picking up the materials for my diamond deposition project? i've got a shopping cart at misumi already filled. ;P | 16:23 |
| juri_ | what happened to fenn? | 16:23 |
| kanzure | i assume he's dead | 16:23 |
| kanzure | i don't know what you mean about shopping carts | 16:23 |
| juri_ | wow. | 16:23 |
| juri_ | wtf. :/ | 16:23 |
| kanzure | which one is your diamond deposition project | 16:23 |
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| juri_ | i mean to imply that i'm organized, have a goal, and know what i need. | 16:24 |
| juri_ | i'm setting up to deposit diamond like carbon onto aluminium, aluminium oxide, and aluminium carbide cylinders. this is for 3d printer hotend construction. | 16:24 |
| juri_ | we'll be building (and distributing the design obviously) a vacuum chamber with an attached microwave emiter, for doing microwave induced carbon deposition. | 16:25 |
| juri_ | once we get that down, we're going to try coating the inside of a high carbon steel shaft. this is so we can produce a 3d printer hotend capable of extruding aluminium. | 16:26 |
| juri_ | no more fenn, eh? damn. | 16:28 |
| juri_ | that's a loss. | 16:28 |
| entelechios | this stuff from fenn is really interesting | 16:28 |
| kanzure | i just told you i assumed it, not that i confirmed it | 16:29 |
| * juri_ nods. | 16:29 | |
| juri_ | i've had to assume before, and been wrong. unfortunately, i was daiting the person i had to assume. quite painful. | 16:29 |
| juri_ | ok, thats enough depressing for me. back to cleaning. | 16:31 |
| entelechios | you deserved it, you and her both know. | 16:31 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:31 |
| entelechios | lol bad jokes | 16:32 |
| juri_ | wow. and you said kanzure was an asshole? | 16:33 |
| juri_ | he crawled into a bottle, and shacked up with the person he was cheating on me with. | 16:34 |
| juri_ | left me to believe he was dead for 6 months. | 16:34 |
| juri_ | (as if you actually care. bah.) | 16:34 |
| entelechios | no not really lol i'm just a troll | 16:36 |
| entelechios | people airing their personal grevieances on irc is just so exploitable | 16:37 |
| entelechios | people you talk to on the internet are not your emotional punching bag | 16:37 |
| entelechios | they will punch back | 16:37 |
| kardan | why should people do bad things. because they can. | 16:38 |
| kanzure | kardan: you are a genios | 16:39 |
| * kardan is happy to learn from you | 16:40 | |
| kanzure | juri_: why not casting | 16:40 |
| juri_ | kanzure: in what sense? casting DLC, or... ? | 16:40 |
| juri_ | casting the aluminium? | 16:40 |
| juri_ | many types of objects can be made by FDM that casting cannot make. | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i'm trying to think of which geometries can't be constructed by cnc + casting + sls | 16:42 |
| juri_ | semi-hollow objects, filled with lines from edge to edge at varying densities. | 16:42 |
| juri_ | AKA, infil < 100%. | 16:43 |
| juri_ | FDM is working well for plastic. our 6th generation hotend is extruding polycarbonate now. | 16:43 |
| juri_ | we're trying to do a 7th generation of polycarb printing hotend, utilizing DLC, to get our temperature range more inline with what we're wanting for aluminium. then we're gonna produce generation 8 (with a brass core covered in DLC, instead of aluminium, and a steel shaft with DLC coating on the inside) to print aluminium. | 16:45 |
| entelechios | keep up the good work juri_ | 16:51 |
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| kanzure_ | nmz787: i wonder if ellen is genuinely unaware of the problems with accessing biobricks for igem | 17:41 |
| kanzure_ | i mean, for non-institutional igem participants. but community labs might as well be considered institutions. | 17:42 |
| kanzure_ | "Every day, about one in five living cells in the ocean is killed by a virus." | 17:47 |
| kanzure_ | how would you sample to figure that out? | 17:47 |
| kardan | 2009 Miniature Robots to Swarm the Oceans http://www.livescience.com/7965-miniature-robots-swarm-oceans.html | 17:52 |
| kanzure_ | http://cryptome.org/2014/02/snowden-drop.pdf | 18:04 |
| kanzure_ | huh, i thought coffeescript didn't have a formal grammar? http://coffeescript.org/documentation/docs/grammar.html | 18:08 |
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| ParahSailin | well, biobricks working is a crapshot, by now its cheaper to just go to idt | 18:36 |
| kanzure_ | what do you mean? take a primer biobrick as an example. | 18:38 |
| kanzure_ | do you mean the particular sequence is a crapshoot, or the dried notebook's copy of the plasmid is the crapshoot? | 18:38 |
| kanzure_ | i wonder if you could make a claim about the biobrick registry being a bad actor because it's not publicly verifiable. heh. | 18:39 |
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| ParahSailin | what do you mean primer biobrick | 19:05 |
| kanzure_ | wow i meant a promoter | 19:12 |
| kanzure_ | isn't it just some extra sequences around a promoter, and it should just work, as much as it would just work if you ordered the same sequence from idt? | 19:13 |
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| ParahSailin | yeah it should work if the dna in the distribution well is correct and the thing it is claimed to be | 20:13 |
| ParahSailin | with igem thats about a coin toss | 20:13 |
| ParahSailin | for most promoters though, you're better off trying to amplify from the gdna of the organism | 20:15 |
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| archels | 'sup | 23:30 |
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