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| streety | new word of the day: grift | 07:16 |
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| heathjs | paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed084p1647?journalCode=jceda8 | 08:22 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20Chemical%20Composition%20of%20Maple%20Syrup.txt | 08:22 |
| kanzure | maple syrup may be chemically iredducible | 08:24 |
| kanzure | irreducible | 08:24 |
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| heathjs | i wouldn't mind acquiring @heath on twitter, but people don't use twitter correctly: https://twitter.com/search?q=%40heath&src=typd | 08:43 |
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| streety | don't use twitter correctly . . . as in don't use it? | 08:47 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin: apparently jackson labs wont sell to non-institutional people | 11:56 |
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| kanzure | i think i'm gonna have to figure out how to do mental rsa arithmetic. life just doesn't feel complete. | 14:16 |
| kanzure | https://testnet.counterwallet.co/# web wallet for counterparty | 14:17 |
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| poppingtonic | Strangecoin seems like a fun idea. | 15:50 |
| kanzure | why does this show my email as a child to michel bauwen's last post? https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/2014-March/thread.html | 15:50 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: http://www.blockscan.com/assetinfo.aspx?q=KANZURE | 15:50 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure: what am I looking at? | 15:54 |
| kanzure | well, instead of a single strangecoin currency, why not one per person | 15:54 |
| kanzure | (or, rather, at least one per person in the network (possibly more)) | 15:54 |
| kanzure | this is just some stuff operating on top of the bitcoin blockchain using http://counterparty.co/ | 15:55 |
| poppingtonic | Neat | 15:55 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure: your email tipped me off to discuss this here, actually. I lurk ExI. | 15:57 |
| kanzure | ah okay. i was going to reply to that one guy, but his email was boring and now i don't care. | 15:58 |
| kanzure | this one- https://cpunks.org//pipermail/cypherpunks/2014-March/004077.html | 15:59 |
| kanzure | he seems to think i wrote all the quoted text | 15:59 |
| kanzure | even though i clearly had docstrings everywhere | 15:59 |
| poppingtonic | For a second I thought so as well, but I noticed the quotes. | 15:59 |
| kanzure | "This seems incredibly complex and described in an even more complex way, but I think you could accomplish most of the good from this proposal by having an infinity of potential instruments, issued by individuals, with the market sorting out the meaning -- e.g. PG General Liability IOUs trade independently of rdl general liability ious which trade differently from rdl newproject equity." | 16:01 |
| kanzure | from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7494709 | 16:01 |
| kanzure | but i think that's sort of what already happens anyway | 16:01 |
| poppingtonic | Would I be correct in drawing an analogy with the evolution of company valuation in subsequent stages of investment? | 16:03 |
| kanzure | what is the other side of your analogy? | 16:05 |
| poppingtonic | According to a class I took, whenever an investment round is announced, a number of shares are decided upon, whose value depends on the required investment itself. The valuation is usually 10x the investment amount in tech companies. Then the shares are divided according to the investment agreement made. | 16:10 |
| kanzure | yeah, that's the side you mentioned for your analogy, but there are two sides to an analogy | 16:11 |
| kanzure | i'm asking about the other one? | 16:11 |
| poppingtonic | Connecting it to Strangecoin? | 16:11 |
| kanzure | yeah | 16:12 |
| kanzure | or whatever it is we're talking about | 16:12 |
| kanzure | early-stage company valuation is a huge problem because these folks actually use totally hairbrained algorithms that make no sense | 16:13 |
| kanzure | they have no basis in reality like growth rate, number of users, etc., it's just MSCPP stuff or other weirdness | 16:13 |
| poppingtonic | Well, if we use your concept, where every one has their currency, people could endorse other people's currencies with x amounts of their own currency. Since it's infinite, we have a (not necessarily universal) period of time, maybe called a "cycle", during which people interact. After that period ends, a person gets to decide whether or not to continue endorsing another person's currency. Think of it as a relationship-based reputation | 16:15 |
| poppingtonic | sceme. | 16:15 |
| poppingtonic | *scheme | 16:15 |
| kanzure | why would there be an end to the period? | 16:17 |
| kanzure | unfortunately you can't take much meaning from "the number of bitcoin addresses that hold shares" because anyone can create any number of addresses and send shares to them | 16:20 |
| kanzure | so using the count of the number of addresses as a method of calculating reputational interest by others is not going to work | 16:20 |
| poppingtonic | Maybe a new abstraction is in order | 16:21 |
| kanzure | or maybe just don't use the count as a metric | 16:23 |
| poppingtonic | What would be a suitable metric? | 16:23 |
| kanzure | maybe there is no metric :) | 16:23 |
| kanzure | why not just have a bunch of different currencies? | 16:23 |
| poppingtonic | How do they interact? | 16:25 |
| poppingtonic | s/do/would | 16:25 |
| kanzure | would they have to? i don't know what you're asking | 16:26 |
| kanzure | for example, in counterparty you can trade assets for each other. does that count ? | 16:26 |
| poppingtonic | All they need is a platform to do so, right? Which counterparty serves if I understand the protocol, on a cursory reading. | 16:27 |
| kanzure | nod | 16:28 |
| poppingtonic | I think it counts, yes. | 16:28 |
| kanzure | another thing that i've been meaning to implement in counterparty is a co-op where any payments made to the co-op are paid out proportionally to the employee-shareholder-owners | 16:29 |
| kanzure | as a dividend | 16:29 |
| kanzure | i know that revenue is not profit, but it's still an interesting idea to have a way to split up money immediately as soon as the customer does the transaction | 16:29 |
| poppingtonic | Say, how would a dashboard for that look? | 16:31 |
| kanzure | https://testnet.counterwallet.co/# | 16:32 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: i thought jojack was cool enough to be called by a nickname | 16:33 |
| kanzure | what about it? | 16:33 |
| poppingtonic | Counterparty would work because of the one-source, one-destination rule | 16:33 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: did he blow up somewhere? | 16:33 |
| ParahSailin | jackson labs is jojack? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | nope | 16:33 |
| kanzure | jackson labs is where you buy mice | 16:33 |
| kanzure | large mouse supplier | 16:33 |
| poppingtonic | (large mouse) supplier | 16:34 |
| kanzure | i mean.. a large supplier of mice | 16:34 |
| kanzure | right | 16:34 |
| kanzure | well.. no. | 16:34 |
| ParahSailin | anyway, mice would not do any good in this case | 16:34 |
| ParahSailin | unless its a mouse that happens to have humanized antigen | 16:34 |
| kanzure | wasn't suggesting that- but i could imagine future projects that do require mice | 16:34 |
| bkero | 4/win 87 | 16:34 |
| kanzure | if i end up having to run my own mouse farm i'm gonna be really annoyed | 16:35 |
| kanzure | maybe i'll train them to do tricks | 16:35 |
| kanzure | http://www3.uca.edu/iqzoo/Media/PDF/Manual/manual12.pdf | 16:36 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: would you like some of my shares? i just need your bitcoin address. also it must be an address that you control the private keys for (e.g., web wallets usually don't show you the private keys). | 16:37 |
| poppingtonic | maybe genome them to have their fur draw aug-reality markers on their backs, then build gigantic mazes for fps games? | 16:37 |
| ParahSailin | whats our favorite rice professor up to these days | 16:38 |
| kanzure | probably getting hosed by grant writing | 16:38 |
| poppingtonic | sec | 16:38 |
| ParahSailin | find some way to indebt him to you | 16:38 |
| kanzure | blackmail? | 16:38 |
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| poppingtonic | kanzure: does it need to have bitcoin? | 16:43 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure: 18HojXGeBZDaKe1XtNgk79vBej6A4WQmJp | 16:45 |
| kanzure | nope it does not | 16:47 |
| kanzure | just make sure you have your private key available for the future to use it | 16:47 |
| kanzure | txid: 75177b31299debd120bfa50a0fa2a98d737c5cae8073ce8260aaa2de29dcddbf | 16:49 |
| kanzure | https://blockchain.info/en/tx/75177b31299debd120bfa50a0fa2a98d737c5cae8073ce8260aaa2de29dcddbf | 16:50 |
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| poppingtonic | Confirmed. I should check this out on the testnet. | 17:02 |
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| drazak | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v372/n6506/pdf/372519a0.pdf | 17:03 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2F372519a0 | 17:03 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=806707 | 17:16 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F800221.806707 | 17:16 |
| poppingtonic | i had a fun weekend of SF. Ready Player One & Sun of Suns. | 17:18 |
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| kanzure | 16:04 < maaku> jaekwon: start with this : http://macs.citadel.edu/rudolphg/csci604/ImpossibilityofConsensus.pdf | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:06 < jaekwon> no, no. that paper has restrictive priors that don't apply to what we can build, namely, that all processes are deterministic. | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:06 < jaekwon> see counter: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=806707 | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:06 < jaekwon> intuitively, if that paper were correct, pow wouldn't work either. | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:09 < maaku> no pow works because the economic restriction provided by the 2nd law : even though you can't know you're in the consensus set, you can put a raw economic cost on the probability of you being tricked | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:09 < maaku> pow *fixes* the problem pointed out by this paper | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:29 < maaku> sipa, jaekwon: my physics-based understanding of bitcoin is that uses work to tie bitcoin consensus to a fundamentally scarce resource: entropy | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:30 < maaku> it is possible to use other physically scarce resource instead, but there is no alternative with the universal scarcity of entropy | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:35 < gmaxwell> An interesting observation is that if we had a true strong publically verifyable captcha— so that a human had to mine— you're still ultimately turning energy into proofs (e.g. instead you could mine by having baby farms where you turn out more people to solve the captchas. :) ) | 17:25 |
| kanzure | 16:37 < gmaxwell> but bitcoin itself solved an impossible problem by relaxing some constraints, so perhaps there are relaxations or changes that are just as useful but make other things work. | 17:26 |
| kanzure | 16:41 < maaku> i could be an AI trapped in a simulation with no knowledge of the outside world other than the foundational laws of physics, and from that be able to assert the validity of proof-of-work | 17:26 |
| poppingtonic | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=806707 | 17:27 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F800221.806707 | 17:28 |
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| kanzure | information theoretic perspective of autonomy http://ehu.es/ias-research/autonomy/doc/bertschinger_revision.pdf | 18:28 |
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| poppingtonic | Section 3.1, condition 1. | 19:02 |
| poppingtonic | problems with equation (5) as a condition for non-heteronomy | 19:03 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure: how far along are you in that paper? | 19:03 |
| kanzure | uh somehow i am reading wittgenstein and learning how terrible he is at biology | 19:04 |
| kanzure | "The case would be like the following — certain kinds of plants multiply by seed, so that a seed always produces a plant of the same kind as that from which it was produced — but nothing in the seed corresponds to the plant which comes from it;" | 19:04 |
| kanzure | http://inamidst.com/stuff/witt/process | 19:04 |
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| kanzure | so in conclusion, i got distracted or stopped reading it (i forget if i finished it) | 19:06 |
| ParahSailin | tractatus? | 19:06 |
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| kanzure | pardon? | 19:06 |
| ParahSailin | wittgenstein | 19:07 |
| kanzure | no idea, this seems to be notes | 19:07 |
| kanzure | anyway, this is the first i've read anything from him and so far i hate him | 19:07 |
| kanzure | it seems wrong to assume that seeds have nothing to do with plants | 19:07 |
| kanzure | even in the absence of evidence of dna | 19:08 |
| poppingtonic | I've wanted to finish Tractatus for the longest time. | 19:08 |
| ParahSailin | no philosophy | 19:08 |
| kanzure | in this case i agree | 19:08 |
| poppingtonic | ParahSailin: do you mean that he had no philosophy of it? | 19:09 |
| ParahSailin | channel rules are no philosophy and no reddit | 19:10 |
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| kanzure | poppingtonic: the reason is because everyone is awful at philosophy | 19:11 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: sometimes i let some slip through if it is good otherwise i get out the ban hammer | 19:11 |
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| poppingtonic | oh, right. cool. i agree, it's very easy for discussions to death-spiral into meaningless drivel. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | also as you can imagine this channel attracts a more-than-fair share of philoso-wackos | 19:12 |
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| cluckj | hah | 19:16 |
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| kanzure | cluckj: want some shares? see above instructions | 19:50 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: Hi :) | 19:52 |
| kanzure | yes? | 19:52 |
| AshleyWaffle | I'm Ashley. I think we met last night | 19:52 |
| AshleyWaffle | So what shares thing? | 19:52 |
| kanzure | we met 2013-04-06 | 19:52 |
| kanzure | i've known you for at least a year | 19:52 |
| AshleyWaffle | Oh yeah, I was in here before | 19:53 |
| AshleyWaffle | Well you know what I mean | 19:53 |
| kanzure | that's a big difference from meeting you last night.. just saying. | 19:53 |
| AshleyWaffle | I don't think we've introduced before | 19:53 |
| AshleyWaffle | How do you even get numbers like that so fast, anyway? | 19:53 |
| kanzure | i have this giant database where i stalk everyone i've ever met | 19:53 |
| AshleyWaffle | Haha | 19:53 |
| AshleyWaffle | I believe you | 19:54 |
| AshleyWaffle | So anyway, what shares thing? | 19:54 |
| kanzure | and i write down every time i speak with them so that i don't have to keep all of that in memory | 19:54 |
| kanzure | http://www.blockscan.com/assetinfo.aspx?q=KANZURE | 19:54 |
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| AshleyWaffle | So how do I get some of them shares? | 19:54 |
| kanzure | you would give me a bitcoin address (and make sure you have the private key somewhere that you can get to it later for signing transactions) | 19:55 |
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| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: I assume the electrum client works? | 19:55 |
| kanzure | haven't used that one | 19:55 |
| kanzure | probably yes | 19:55 |
| kanzure | as long as you can get the private key for the address out of the system. web wallets are especially bad at this. | 19:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | PMed sir, thank you :) | 19:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | And yeah it has a sign feature | 19:56 |
| kanzure | not what i mean | 19:57 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: so what do I do now? | 19:58 |
| kanzure | realistically: (1) you wait for the transaction to clear, and then (2) you wait around for counterwallet to get released so that you can use these shares (may be a few weeks until it's ready to be released) | 19:58 |
| AshleyWaffle | cool, so what's counter-wallet? | 19:59 |
| kanzure | counterwallet is just a ui around the counterparty api | 19:59 |
| AshleyWaffle | What's counterparty? | 19:59 |
| kanzure | it's how i am distributing shares on top of bitcoin | 19:59 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/PhantomPhreak/counterparty | 19:59 |
| poppingtonic | http://topologicalmedialab.net/xinwei/classes/readings/Maturana/autopoesis_and_cognition.pdf | 20:00 |
| poppingtonic | Related to the autonomy and information theory paper. | 20:01 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: so what is your stock thing? | 20:01 |
| kanzure | mad science | 20:01 |
| cluckj | kanzure, shares in what? | 20:01 |
| kanzure | probably my income, but i haven't decided yet. e.g. i may pay out dividends from my income. | 20:02 |
| cluckj | o_O | 20:04 |
| JayDugger | Do you make an open offer? | 20:05 |
| kanzure | well right now i'm giving them away | 20:05 |
| kanzure | because i want the network to be seeded with people that i like rather than people who happen to have money to buy them from me | 20:05 |
| kanzure | or at least, i want it to be seeded based on people with similar goals or interests in a way that might positively increase the value of the shares anyway | 20:06 |
| cluckj | O_o | 20:07 |
| kanzure | http://simondlr.com/post/70089813484/in-the-future-everyone-will-have-their-own | 20:09 |
| kanzure | http://simondlr.com/post/70401514502/announcing-simoncoin-worlds-first-individual | 20:09 |
| kanzure | http://ml.sun.ac.za/2013/12/18/cryptocurrencies-as-public-shareholding/ | 20:09 |
| kanzure | anyway if i create value as a person then why not create shares to represent that value | 20:11 |
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| cluckj | if I own shares in you that kinda makes you my slave tho | 20:13 |
| kanzure | how is that slavery? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | btw these are non-voting ;) | 20:14 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: wouldnt it be more accurate to say that everyone will have their own stock? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | depends on what you mean by will.... by force? | 20:15 |
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| cluckj | hmm | 20:19 |
| cluckj | I can't say that I'm down for the commoditization of people | 20:20 |
| kanzure | but you're willing to get paid on the job? | 20:20 |
| poppingtonic | This isn't a vote, but you could set up a DAC while you're at it | 20:21 |
| cluckj | I don't really have a choice in that | 20:21 |
| kanzure | you don't have a choice about being paid? | 20:21 |
| juri_ | sure you do. | 20:21 |
| kanzure | you could just.. not get a job? | 20:21 |
| cluckj | :P | 20:22 |
| kanzure | contentious objector, eh? | 20:22 |
| juri_ | i work all of the time. sometimes, people pay me, but i consider it a 'donation' system. | 20:22 |
| cluckj | I have to eat and stuff | 20:22 |
| kanzure | *conscientous objector | 20:22 |
| kanzure | *conscientious objector | 20:22 |
| cluckj | yeah | 20:22 |
| poppingtonic | Muskcoin, anyone? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | not if it's based on mining | 20:24 |
| poppingtonic | Carmackcoin | 20:24 |
| cluckj | bryanbucks | 20:24 |
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| kanzure | /win 547 | 20:27 |
| kanzure | /win 5 | 20:27 |
| kanzure | djflkadfjlkad | 20:27 |
| poppingtonic | Hofstadtercoin | 20:27 |
| kanzure | are you just saying random names and attaching the word coin? | 20:27 |
| poppingtonic | I'm thinking of people with high nerd karma. | 20:28 |
| Qfwfq | sed 's/$/coin/' /usr/share/dict/words | 20:28 |
| poppingtonic | simon says (heh) something about someone's ability to generate network effects being the potential value of their personal coin. e.g. Mandela. | 20:29 |
| cluckj | so what you're trying to do is create a kind of currency based on your social network? | 20:29 |
| cluckj | pegged to bitcoin? | 20:29 |
| kanzure | it's not pegged to bitcoin, it just uses bitcoin as the distribution mechanism | 20:30 |
| kanzure | specifically it uses the bitcoin network or protocol | 20:30 |
| cluckj | like kudos? | 20:31 |
| kanzure | is this another bitcoin thing i'm not aware of? | 20:31 |
| cluckj | no, it's a corporate feedback thing | 20:32 |
| kanzure | is it as bad as klout was? | 20:33 |
| cluckj | oh | 20:33 |
| cluckj | I was thinking of klout | 20:33 |
| cluckj | yeah... | 20:33 |
| kanzure | social media reputation thing, then :) | 20:33 |
| kanzure | "get kickbacks and money for spamming your users with our bullshit" "it's easy and free!" | 20:33 |
| cluckj | yes | 20:33 |
| kanzure | cluckj: http://digitalinterface.blogspot.com/2014/03/strangecoin-proposal-for-nonlinear.html | 20:36 |
| kanzure | cluckj: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7494709 | 20:36 |
| cluckj | hm | 20:43 |
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| kanzure | stieruridir: same offer goes to you btw | 21:00 |
| stieruridir | What, spamming people to make money? | 21:00 |
| kanzure | i take it you have an opinion you want to share | 21:01 |
| stieruridir | No, it's just not something I usually do. I'm bad at being active on social media much | 21:01 |
| kanzure | huh? | 21:02 |
| kanzure | i'm not talking about klout. are you? | 21:02 |
| stieruridir | I'M CONFUSED. What was the offer? | 21:02 |
| kanzure | shares | 21:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.blockscan.com/assetinfo.aspx?q=KANZURE | 21:02 |
| stieruridir | Hm, might be interesting, though I've never touched bitcoin in the slightest. | 21:03 |
| stieruridir | or any *coin | 21:03 |
| kanzure | what's the point of all your technology prediction whatevers if you don't bother to.. hrm i don't even know how to word | 21:03 |
| stieruridir | I stay away from IT and stuff mostly. Also, right now, I'm mostly getting paid freelance to write market reports | 21:04 |
| stieruridir | working on my marketable skills, trying to snag a job in Seattle or something doing BI | 21:05 |
| kanzure | bi? | 21:05 |
| stieruridir | business intelligence | 21:05 |
| stieruridir | I'd prefer business consulting but meh. | 21:05 |
| stieruridir | Right now I'm applying at Tableau | 21:06 |
| stieruridir | Anyway, you do have a point, and free shares is something worth actually poking at bitcoin at. | 21:10 |
| stieruridir | *for | 21:10 |
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| kanzure | finally a version of threes/2048/numberwang made for me: http://games.usvsth3m.com/2048/super-yamcha-edition/ | 22:55 |
| dingo | ha | 22:57 |
| dingo | i liked the numberwang | 22:57 |
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| dingo | somebody made a terminal version based on my python library 'blessed', https://github.com/polyphemus/macht | 23:01 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: pm | 23:01 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: saw it | 23:01 |
| kanzure | and replied | 23:02 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Mar 31 00:00:20 2014 | ||
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