| --- Log opened Mon Apr 14 00:00:39 2014 | ||
| archels` | paperbot: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/08990220600700768 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9224876a1c3561692d4d94e296956d19.txt | 00:00 |
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| archels` | norepinetree: me and another fellow are building a safer, open-source tDCS kit | 00:06 |
| norepinetree | oooh | 00:06 |
| kanzure | safer than what | 00:06 |
| archels` | every single DIY kit on the web | 00:07 |
| archels` | but thebrainstimulator.net in particular | 00:07 |
| cpopell | wonder how far out we are from home tcus | 00:07 |
| norepinetree | tcus? | 00:08 |
| cpopell | ultrasound | 00:08 |
| kanzure | "how far" what does that even mean | 00:08 |
| kanzure | just build it | 00:08 |
| norepinetree | like, how long until | 00:08 |
| kanzure | until you stop waiting | 00:08 |
| kanzure | wtf | 00:08 |
| archels` | haha | 00:08 |
| norepinetree | MOTIVATIONAL | 00:08 |
| kanzure | yeah let's just sit around like a bunch of jackasses and demand that someone makes transcranial ultrasound equipment for us | 00:09 |
| kanzure | that'll fucking work | 00:09 |
| cpopell | I hardly demanded it | 00:09 |
| kanzure | it was more of an implied demand | 00:09 |
| kanzure | "how long until" is basically "when is someone going to do it for me" | 00:09 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/ | 00:10 |
| kanzure | there are some schematics in there somewhere | 00:10 |
| cpopell | Not really. I'm curious when it will hits hobbyists like tcds is now | 00:10 |
| cpopell | *hit | 00:10 |
| cpopell | I speculate this about plenty of things, as much as that frustrates you. | 00:10 |
| kanzure | because you could just as well be speculating about any other thing you haven't built yet, like homebrewed semiconductors | 00:11 |
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| yottabit | kanzure: yeah, still getting paid | 00:17 |
| yottabit | it's pretty nice, working from home most days | 00:18 |
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| kanzure | 20:52 < [\\\]> jgarzik, how large is the new bootstrap.dat? | 00:23 |
| kanzure | 20:52 < jgarzik> 17G | 00:23 |
| kanzure | eek | 00:23 |
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| kanzure | pedantry: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4015 | 00:29 |
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| chris_99 | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11416-008-0086-0 | 01:38 |
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| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/80d501fb62fab8f03b233d02e7b2eb19.txt | 01:39 |
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| juul | paperbot: http://glycob.oxfordjournals.org/content/4/6/837.long | 01:53 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1093%2Fglycob%2F4.6.837 | 01:53 |
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| chris_99 | does anyone know of an application i can throw pdfs into per chance, and tag with bibtex | 04:29 |
| chris_99 | that's open source | 04:29 |
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| mosasaur | chris_99: Maybe calibre? It can at least output a catalog in BiBTex format. http://manual.calibre-ebook.com/gui.html | 04:40 |
| chris_99 | thanks | 04:41 |
| chris_99 | i'll have a look | 04:41 |
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| mosasaur | I've been trying to interest people in something I call "Cage Theory" for some time now, but with little success so far. In fact I had kind of given up on it, here's one example of a comment I didn't even bother to post: https://www.privatepaste.com/d87b3a4a83 | 05:07 |
| mosasaur | But then I read this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/11/going-loopy/ which kind of gave me new hope for this theory, so there I go. | 05:08 |
| mosasaur | Even though I think the slatestarcodex post is too specific (focusing on disorders) and doesn't go into reasons for why things would be like this even for Artificial intelligences. | 05:10 |
| mosasaur | By the way: Hi all ;-) | 05:11 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu was a pay-to-subscribe list | 09:31 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: is that why you were asking for backups yesterday? | 09:33 |
| kanzure | someone was asking me for backups | 09:34 |
| kanzure | so i've been uploading the content i raided from max more's house: | 09:34 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/ | 09:34 |
| eudoxia | was it someone trying to find satoshi | 09:34 |
| eudoxia | i mean, once you've exhausted the crypto ML, why not go for tangentially-related ones | 09:34 |
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| kanzure | wei dai posted to extropians at least a few times | 09:35 |
| kanzure | "The original focus was Libertarians. Do you expect freebies from hardcore Libertarians?" | 09:36 |
| eudoxia | ,--8<- | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | |Eugene Leitl wrote: | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | |> | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | |> I've never seen a definite answer to a recurring pet idea of mine: to | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | |> (transiently) stellify Jupiter by means of a nuke detonated in its | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | |> metallic (or at least somewhere deep enough where hydrogen is | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | `-->8- | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | > sufficiently dense) hydrogen layer. | 09:38 |
| eudoxia | i guess eleitl used to be a lot less apocalyptic and more optimistic in the past | 09:38 |
| kanzure | he's best thought of as a large fluffy cat | 09:39 |
| eudoxia | it's funny, there are mentions of synaptic imaging being around the corner and a "Near Earth Asteroid prospector" thing | 09:44 |
| eudoxia | 20 years ago was just like today but with bulkier computers! | 09:44 |
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| eudoxia | the mosasaur was such a badass dinosaur | 10:10 |
| eudoxia | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Prognathodon_saturator_DB.jpg | 10:10 |
| eudoxia | dayum | 10:10 |
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| FourFire | eudoxia, yeah I find it strangely sad | 11:00 |
| FourFire | like there was this large group of amazing people, and sometime between then an now they left earth, forever | 11:00 |
| kanzure | well, by "amazing" you mean, they sent emails | 11:01 |
| kanzure | keep it in perspective | 11:01 |
| FourFire | or they all died mysteriously, and now people like me go looking around in old archives | 11:01 |
| FourFire | yeah, well, had amazing thoughts | 11:01 |
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| FourFire | didn't really do much with them, as far as i can see | 11:01 |
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| eudoxia | yeah, that's a shame | 11:02 |
| eudoxia | at least alcor happened, that's something | 11:03 |
| kanzure | let's not promote email worship | 11:03 |
| kanzure | by comparison the number of projects that have passed through this channel is overwhelmingly crippling compared to a pile of emails | 11:03 |
| kanzure | could be better | 11:05 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: alcor? | 11:06 |
| kanzure | no i mean the non-email uh, phone call one sec | 11:07 |
| kanzure | aww it was a spamcall | 11:07 |
| kanzure | how disappointing | 11:08 |
| kanzure | no i mean hplusroadmap project stuff could be better | 11:08 |
| kanzure | like, more of them | 11:08 |
| kanzure | "superscience" huh there's a word | 11:09 |
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| eudoxia | why more when there's basically no-one working on eg skdb, nanoengineer | 11:10 |
| kanzure | because skdb is a bad implementation | 11:11 |
| kanzure | nanoengineer is also poorly implemented and on top of that is not actually helpful even if it was well-implemented | 11:11 |
| eudoxia | i agree with the NE thing | 11:11 |
| kanzure | skdb has a lot of monolithic design in it | 11:11 |
| eudoxia | what do you mean skdb is a bad implementation though? | 11:11 |
| eudoxia | or, rather, what would you redo better? | 11:12 |
| kanzure | the design is a result of a poor understanding of the nature of hardware and bootstrapping-manufacturing | 11:12 |
| kanzure | if i had a better understanding of bootstrapping-manufacturing crossed with package management then i would be able to make a less monolithic design and split it into separate aspects | 11:13 |
| kanzure | however, i don't | 11:13 |
| kanzure | bootfacturing heh | 11:14 |
| eudoxia | so you're saying it wouldn't be useful in the real world because it's built on a wrong understanding of manufacturing? | 11:14 |
| kanzure | really the problem of moving matter and energy around to get reliable tools is a constraint optimization problem | 11:14 |
| kanzure | because you can make cnc machines from parts you order from whatever supplier but also from scrap metal you find and then proceed to forge with | 11:15 |
| kanzure | i'm saying it's not useful at the moment because the design is wrong | 11:15 |
| eudoxia | hm | 11:15 |
| kanzure | this specification is not enough to make useful hardware packages: | 11:16 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.yaml | 11:16 |
| eudoxia | it is a little abstract | 11:16 |
| kanzure | abstraction isn't itself bad | 11:17 |
| kanzure | but say you have a thousand defined packages | 11:17 |
| kanzure | now what | 11:17 |
| eudoxia | i don't understand though why you were trying to do 3d part fitting | 11:18 |
| kanzure | because you could find packages that satisfy the same constraints even if they are something "else" | 11:18 |
| eudoxia | because skdb felt to me like a fairly abstract dependency manager, but then that feature constrains its operation to 3d lego-like stuff | 11:18 |
| kanzure | hardware is applied to other materials and matter | 11:18 |
| kanzure | so there's always a physical interfacing | 11:19 |
| kanzure | maybe you don't have a foobar but you have a foobaz laying around that satisfies the requirements | 11:19 |
| eudoxia | but describing some interfaces in formal terms could easily get too complex | 11:19 |
| kanzure | suppose that there's no interface/port coordination in the package specification | 11:20 |
| kanzure | so you have a thousand packages for various bits of hardware | 11:20 |
| kanzure | now what | 11:20 |
| eudoxia | i don't mean "remove interfaces" | 11:20 |
| kanzure | no, it'sfine | 11:20 |
| kanzure | i'm more interested in the other conversation | 11:20 |
| kanzure | what is the actual incentive to make packages or have packages at all? | 11:21 |
| kanzure | people make software packages so that they can install their software on their computers in a way that doesn't involve them manually repeating everything | 11:21 |
| kanzure | and in a way that is standardized for all pieces of software on their computer | 11:21 |
| kanzure | but the incentive for hardware packaging doesn't seem to be there | 11:21 |
| eudoxia | well, even without completely formal and automated interfaces, software packaging could still be used to produce human-readable instruction manuals | 11:22 |
| kanzure | dunno if instruction manuals are compelling, especially since nobody has been able to demonstrate that | 11:23 |
| kanzure | plus, there's a lot of knowledge in manufacturing that is trapped in human brains that only gets out in long-form text | 11:23 |
| kanzure | i.e., you can't wait for all that knowledge to be built into the abstractions itself | 11:23 |
| kanzure | so unfortunately i predict that only manually-written documentation will work | 11:24 |
| eudoxia | that makes sense | 11:28 |
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| kanzure | there's a bunch of products from dassault for flexcells and factories | 11:37 |
| kanzure | that do automatic assembly things | 11:37 |
| kanzure | but it requires a bunch of engineering effort that i don't see incentives for others to perform | 11:37 |
| kanzure | unless they are being paid | 11:38 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: so "you get to sit around writing lots of documentation, or programming lots of documentation", there's not much compelling the interest of a user | 13:54 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: certainly not to the *writer* of packages, and of course the *reader* has no incentive to use it over regular manuals | 13:55 |
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| kanzure | well that leaves basically nothing | 14:09 |
| eudoxia | i suppose | 14:11 |
| kanzure | the benefit is something like "for people like transhumanists that need to take advantage of a pile of lots of technology that they probably couldn't realistically figure out on their own with their available time" | 14:19 |
| kanzure | but that's only a very highly/weirdly altruistic motivation | 14:19 |
| eudoxia | i would have said extremely niche | 14:19 |
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| kanzure | blah stop leaving | 14:49 |
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| kanzure | phased array speaker system http://people.ece.cornell.edu/land/courses/ece4760/FinalProjects/s2012/tcj26_ecs227/tcj26_ecs227/index.html | 16:16 |
| kanzure | "For our ECE 4760 final project, we designed and built an array of 12 independently-controllable speakers to implement an acoustic phased-array system. The system samples a standard audio input signal at approximately 44.1 kHz, and then outputs this signal to each of 12 speakers, each with a variable delay. The idea behind a phased-array is that by changing how the speakers are driven the angle of the maximum intensity of the output wave can ... | 16:16 |
| kanzure | ... be shifted." | 16:16 |
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| xentrac | what are the limits on phased-array beamforming gain? | 16:28 |
| xentrac | I'd think that if you have a phased array of 10 points, the best you can do is about 20dBi, no? | 16:28 |
| kanzure | superkuh: ping, i think you might know these things | 16:29 |
| xentrac | since the best you can do is to have the peaks from all 10 speakers arrive at a point at the same time, so the peak will be 10× higher than the peak from any one speaker, or 100 times the power, or 20dB | 16:29 |
| kanzure | isn't there a loss over distance | 16:29 |
| xentrac | not relevant | 16:29 |
| kanzure | or atmosphere | 16:29 |
| xentrac | eventually, but we can ignore that for now | 16:30 |
| xentrac | I guess that's actually only 10dBi since the 10 peaks arriving at random times still give you 10dB higher than if you just had one speaker turned on | 16:30 |
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| FourFire | ok, thatæs interesting: what's it for? | 17:31 |
| kanzure | you're asking what sound shaping is for? | 17:33 |
| kanzure | pretty difficult to do that by flapping your hands | 17:34 |
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| xentrac | FourFire: imagine a speakerphone that other people in the same room can only barely hear, without echo | 17:49 |
| FourFire | ok | 17:49 |
| FourFire | so, it's *directed* sound | 17:50 |
| xentrac | right | 17:50 |
| xentrac | imagine it tracks the position of your head and focuses the sound on your ear, and filters the microphone inputs so that sound that comes from your mouth has 20dB or 30dB gain over other room sounds | 17:50 |
| xentrac | because phased array microphones work the same way as phased array speakers | 17:50 |
| FourFire | ah I see the source speakers in the array don't even need to be audible, but the point of focus is | 17:50 |
| FourFire | that is useful | 17:51 |
| xentrac | well, with only 12 speakers, the gain is only 10dB | 17:51 |
| xentrac | but if you had 1000 speakers, you could do 30dB, I think | 17:51 |
| FourFire | 10 is 300% though right? | 17:51 |
| xentrac | no, 1000% | 17:52 |
| xentrac | and if you had a million speakers, like a plasma monitor has a million lamps, you could do 60dB, I think | 17:52 |
| xentrac | which would be enough under many circumstances to make a sound that was inaudible from nearby, but audible far away, and is quite difficult to achieve with simple parabolic reflectors | 17:53 |
| xentrac | consider also that you could use a system like that to map out your environment with sonar. | 17:54 |
| xentrac | if you had a million microphones instead of a million speakers, you could make a picture of your environment by sound sources: bright lights where a sound source is found or reflected, and without losing the ability to finely analyze the spectrum of each pixel | 17:55 |
| xentrac | this is basically how the Allen Telescope Array works, but in radio rather than audio | 17:55 |
| xentrac | looking at the sky | 17:55 |
| xentrac | now, a million microphones at 44.1ksps/16bps is 700 gigabits per second, so this is probably not a device someone will build for a few years yet | 17:57 |
| xentrac | but it's a more advanced form of the anti-submarine warfare systems that have been deployed for decades | 17:58 |
| cpopell | xentrac: this is how I specced out the detection system for next-gen LCIWS | 18:04 |
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| xentrac | ...? | 18:05 |
| cpopell | 14 TB/s video feed | 18:06 |
| cpopell | for anti-seaskimming laser CWIS | 18:06 |
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| xentrac | ...LCIWS? | 18:12 |
| cpopell | laser close in weapon system | 18:12 |
| xentrac | aha | 18:12 |
| xentrac | so you want to use phased-array detection... of lasers? I'm not totally sure | 18:14 |
| cpopell | ah, I was thinking more the parallels in huge quantities of data | 18:14 |
| xentrac | ah | 18:14 |
| cpopell | phased-array optical stuff might be going on blimps some time soon | 18:14 |
| entelechios | yeah those advertisement systems which target only certain people which were being researched were pretty funny | 18:16 |
| entelechios | directional sound | 18:16 |
| entelechios | sounds like a recipe for mental illness | 18:16 |
| xentrac | yeah, I think those were supposed to work by another method | 18:17 |
| xentrac | ultrasound (which is easy to make directional) being converted into audible sound by nonlinear acoustics inside your ear canal | 18:17 |
| entelechios | yeah | 18:17 |
| entelechios | hmm ultrasonic neuromodulation | 18:18 |
| entelechios | i wonder what kind of advances are being made in that right now behind the DARPA curtain | 18:18 |
| entelechios | http://www.tylerlab.com/projects/ultrasound | 18:18 |
| cpopell | entelechios: look at their FY2015 budget request | 18:18 |
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| entelechios | these guys used to have a super soldier helmet prototype right on their site | 18:18 |
| entelechios | its disappeared | 18:19 |
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| entelechios | good call cpopell | 18:19 |
| cpopell | I'll have a scraped and structured version in 4-5 months. | 18:19 |
| entelechios | so you work in defence research, or were you speccing out something you're not really connected to? | 18:19 |
| cpopell | entelechios: I used to work in defense research, but mostly I'm interested in the dynamics of tech growth and forecasting and figuring out ways to know where things are going ahead of time | 18:20 |
| entelechios | any thoughts on advances in photonic computing | 18:21 |
| cpopell | according to http://www.itrs.net/Links/2012ITRS/2012Chapters/MtM%20WG%20entirereport_final.pdf, I'd suggest looking at Strategic Research Agenda of the Photonics 21 platform, and Photonik 2020 Research Agenda | 18:22 |
| cpopell | tl;dr I haven't closely examined it yet. | 18:22 |
| entelechios | lol | 18:22 |
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| cpopell | http://www.photonics21.org/download/PhotonicsMultiannualRoadmap/PhotonicsMultiannualStrategicRoadmapDocument.pdf | 18:25 |
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| xentrac | hmm, what time is the lunar eclipse? | 18:25 |
| entelechios | depends on where you are | 18:26 |
| entelechios | i'm in costa rica but have been told conflicting information | 18:27 |
| entelechios | kinda cloudy here... | 18:27 |
| xentrac | I'm in Buenos Aires | 18:27 |
| xentrac | but I'm pretty sure it happens simultaneously worldwide :) | 18:27 |
| entelechios | i think you're out of the zone | 18:27 |
| xentrac | or very nearly simultaneously | 18:27 |
| entelechios | http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/14/where-can-you-see-tonights-total-lunar-eclipse-this-map-has-the-answer/ | 18:27 |
| entelechios | so for me about 10-11pm | 18:28 |
| entelechios | cool | 18:28 |
| entelechios | sounds like it's going to be going for a while too damn | 18:28 |
| entelechios | guess im going out tonight | 18:28 |
| xentrac | that map makes it look like it'll be visible at moonset | 18:29 |
| xentrac | which is basically sunrise | 18:29 |
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| entelechios | http://www.space.com/25479-total-lunar-eclipse-2014-skywatching-guide.html | 18:30 |
| entelechios | says here different time starting at EDT | 18:30 |
| entelechios | like much later | 18:30 |
| entelechios | i am confused still but eh whatever | 18:30 |
| QuantumG | what'd I miss? | 18:30 |
| entelechios | nothing yet, a lunar eclipse tonight if you're in the zone | 18:30 |
| entelechios | btw thanks for the links cpopell | 18:31 |
| QuantumG | heh, I meant in the last 3 years of not being on this channel. | 18:32 |
| entelechios | uhhh hmmm whats notable... that laurie love guy going to jail was pretty wtf | 18:33 |
| entelechios | he was indicted cause of shit he said in here | 18:33 |
| entelechios | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/30/laurie_love_investigation_stretches_to_oz_sweden/ | 18:33 |
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| QuantumG | yeah, I was bitching to kanzure about his irc logs around the time that happened. | 18:34 |
| * entelechios waves to the googleable future | 18:34 | |
| QuantumG | speak of the devil, how's it goin' kanzure. | 18:34 |
| kanzure | i'm sorry for running you out | 18:35 |
| QuantumG | ya did? I don't even remember it. | 18:37 |
| kanzure | excellent | 18:38 |
| xentrac | entelechios: nsh is in jail now? | 18:38 |
| kanzure | irony police finally caught him | 18:39 |
| kanzure | (i don't actually know. he was around a day ago or so.) | 18:39 |
| xentrac | yeah, his client was in here earlier today | 18:41 |
| entelechios | oh cool it does seem hes not locked up then | 18:43 |
| kanzure | yeah, wrong country etc | 18:43 |
| entelechios | lol @ the "i have the assburgers plz dont send me to jail" defense though | 18:45 |
| entelechios | gary mckinnon did that too | 18:45 |
| entelechios | if my lawyer told me to try and pull that off, i'd fire him | 18:45 |
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| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/images/thumb/8/8a/BMC_Johnny5.jpg/300px-BMC_Johnny5.jpg | 18:53 |
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| cpopell | entelechios: if you find a consistent metric you want to track for photonics (which I sorta doubt), might be worth seeing if it has a consistent doubling time | 18:58 |
| kanzure | cpopell: the only consistent way to predict the future is to invent it | 18:58 |
| kanzure | cpopell: reality is highly constrained by what is technically possible | 18:58 |
| entelechios | cpopell: nah not really lol | 18:59 |
| entelechios | i just know things are going to become even more interesting when those become commonplace | 19:00 |
| xentrac | 21:56 < kanzure> cpopell: reality is highly constrained by what is technically possible | 19:01 |
| xentrac | that's what I thought before I went to Burning Man | 19:01 |
| cpopell | kanzure: doubling times are often consistent | 19:01 |
| xentrac | http://prog21.dadgum.com/191.html talks a bit about how little video games are constrained by what is technically possible | 19:02 |
| QuantumG | .. and more tightly constrained by how people are allowed to find funding. | 19:02 |
| xentrac | " | 19:02 |
| xentrac | All of these designs could have been discovered thirty years ago, but they weren't. Think about that; someone could have come up with Jetpack Joyride's objective system in 1984, but they didn't. Ten years later, they still hadn't." | 19:02 |
| xentrac | QuantumG: well, or more generally, what the social relations around technical possibilities happen to be at the moment | 19:03 |
| entelechios | possibility is a mental construct constrained to imagination, probability is another story | 19:03 |
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| kanzure | xentrac: burning man isn't magic, just not made up of idiots | 19:27 |
| kanzure | xentrac: i'm primarily trying to make sure cpopell doesn't turn into ray kurzweil | 19:29 |
| kanzure | ray did some equipment about 400 years ago and is now living off of his portfolios | 19:29 |
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| entelechios | no, now he's living on stringing people along on thinking he's going to live forever | 19:41 |
| entelechios | when secretly he's on his last few years of life, and to have that go out would mess with plans | 19:41 |
| kanzure | now add more conspiracy theory | 19:45 |
| entelechios | nah i got a cryptocurrency prediction proposition betting pool in the works with his death in there | 19:46 |
| entelechios | give me about a month before its released | 19:46 |
| kanzure | isn't that just a poorly implemented assasination market | 19:46 |
| entelechios | no | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i think you mean yes | 19:46 |
| entelechios | i think i mean jokes | 19:46 |
| entelechios | but this has been done before by like | 19:47 |
| entelechios | a corporation | 19:47 |
| entelechios | on obama | 19:47 |
| entelechios | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Power#Criticism | 19:47 |
| entelechios | proposition bets are super funny stuff | 19:47 |
| entelechios | Initially Ireland's largest bookmaker refused to pull down the odds. The bookmaker rejected calls to withdraw the controversial offer, claiming it was a nonsense to suggest that their stance could actually encourage anyone to go out and try to kill Mr Obama. | 19:51 |
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| dingo | http://osrc.dfm.io/kanzure | 20:35 |
| * dingo giggles | 20:35 | |
| dingo | its good to have pokecrystal up front you know | 20:35 |
| dingo | keeps the spy agencies guessing | 20:35 |
| dingo | amazing how your code commits are so regularly done | 20:36 |
| dingo | i don't commit so aggresively as you | 20:36 |
| dingo | yours are like dipped clearly during sleep (3am-8am) lunch, dinner, and midnight | 20:36 |
| dingo | i've got a pretty clear dip at the 6pm hour too... though i'm not sure how correct that is, most of my public commits were in EST5EDT, now i live in PST, dunno | 20:37 |
| dingo | working with kanzure must be like working with a carmack | 20:39 |
| dingo | a young carmack, anyway, hehe, somebody works at oculous and it ain't kanzure | 20:39 |
| dingo | but his typing speed & productivity is something to strive for | 20:40 |
| kanzure | dingo: http://www.quantumg.net/carmack_takes_bishop.php | 20:40 |
| kanzure | carmack sent me hate mail | 20:40 |
| dingo | i recall | 20:40 |
| dingo | nice title though | 20:40 |
| kanzure | for some reason these sites often list me as "top 1% asm" | 20:41 |
| kanzure | which is worth approximately.. nothing. | 20:42 |
| dingo | i have to agree with him at some level, regarding OSS | 20:42 |
| dingo | openbsd has a "shutup and hack" motto, they don't go around blah-blah-blahing like gnome projects etc. do | 20:42 |
| kanzure | oh sure, he's not really too wrong | 20:42 |
| dingo | i interviewed somebody who felt short on a lot of things, but did claim to write some kind of checksum serial # thing @ vmware, so i he ranted about the bitwiser ops, so i said "what is... any number, .. say... 3,000 xor 3,000" anad he aanswered "I don't know, i'd have to look it up" :-) | 20:44 |
| dingo | N xor N == 0 | 20:44 |
| dingo | so he ranted, rather | 20:44 |
| dingo | i don't get to chose programmers to interview, they just happen, but its strange working in irc/mailing list/github and seeing such great competency vs. what i talk to on phone/meet in the interview room | 20:45 |
| kanzure | that company is going to generate a new type of folklore | 20:45 |
| kanzure | i hear you're back to live editing production | 20:45 |
| kanzure | by hear i mean i am pretending in my head | 20:46 |
| dingo | i've seen a lot worse, anyway.. sometimes i say very clearly, this person should not work here, and some weeks later -- look, they just started ;-) | 20:46 |
| dingo | naaw something came directly from the top not to allow such anymore | 20:46 |
| kanzure | i probably wouldn't pass your interview btw | 20:46 |
| dingo | naw of course you'd do fine | 20:46 |
| dingo | just having github acct. does a lot for you vs. the others | 20:47 |
| dingo | i evaluate folk by the 'extra' effort and interests | 20:47 |
| dingo | if i asked you what new languages you'd like to learn and why, you'd probobly talk my ear off | 20:47 |
| dingo | i get answers like "Scala", "Why?" "i know nothing about it... but people talk about it a lot in the office ..." | 20:48 |
| kanzure | "lisp, so that i may redeem my immortal soul" | 20:48 |
| dingo | hey man, learn hy :-) then you can re-use your python | 20:48 |
| kanzure | hy? | 20:48 |
| kanzure | i definitely want a javascript/python replacement that isn't stupid | 20:48 |
| dingo | http://www.1984.ws:8888 == https://gist.github.com/signalpillar/9107761 | 20:48 |
| dingo | its lisp + python == hy | 20:49 |
| kanzure | does it just translate to python, or is it an actual interpreter? | 20:49 |
| kanzure | i absolutely hate python's package management (well, lack of) | 20:49 |
| kanzure | npm/commonjs/harmony-stuff is looking great but then you have to use js | 20:49 |
| dingo | see 16:30 for 5-minute lighting talk, http://julien.danjou.info/blog/2013/lisp-python-hy | 20:50 |
| kanzure | require() is pretty nice overall | 20:50 |
| dingo | it works with pdb and everything | 20:50 |
| kanzure | if it fixes packaging and has clojure-style docstrings, i could be convinced | 20:50 |
| kanzure | well, not just packaging but also importing. importlib ain't enough. | 20:51 |
| kanzure | or it's wrong. i'm not sure which. | 20:52 |
| dingo | in 2002 it was mind blowing for me | 20:52 |
| dingo | today kindof a pita | 20:52 |
| kanzure | require() gives you nice things like http://browserify.org/ | 20:52 |
| dingo | dunno if you've chatted with devzero lately | 20:56 |
| dingo | seems to be some push internally to make me become his position here | 20:56 |
| dingo | some kind of leader of newbs | 20:56 |
| kanzure | any engineering going on? | 20:57 |
| dingo | i tried to express the "real devloper life cycle" means they'll just burn me out | 21:01 |
| dingo | the same way they've burned him out | 21:01 |
| dingo | they seemed kindof bummed that i'm not gullible enough to take it on | 21:01 |
| dingo | "Oh boy! I'd be happy to be slave-driven! Yay!" | 21:01 |
| dingo | i fear the next time hey threatens to quit, they will say "go ahead", and he will, and they'll make me take his place, but i'll quit, too. | 21:01 |
| dingo | nobody wants to work in mediocracy | 21:01 |
| dingo | it'll downard spiral from there | 21:01 |
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| dingo | slowly implementing lin's 4-mo old vision, yes | 21:01 |
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| dingo | there is push to complete the "new architecture" by july from business | 21:01 |
| kanzure | hah mediocracy | 21:01 |
| kanzure | well, at least you know your plan | 21:02 |
| dingo | at least it isn't a cat-photo sharing site | 21:02 |
| kanzure | yep, it's a special variant: enterprise cat-photo sharing | 21:02 |
| kanzure | multi-tenant cat pic sharing | 21:03 |
| dingo | cat-picture entitlements | 21:03 |
| kanzure | i was a little surprised that my salesforce demo fell on deaf ears | 21:03 |
| kanzure | maybe it was the wrong crowd | 21:03 |
| dingo | yeah that was a little off wasn't it | 21:04 |
| dingo | i tell you the bigwig here, whatever his name is, the one with the austrailian accent or whatever, i saw his eyes light up, he seemed geniunly impressed | 21:04 |
| dingo | he didn't make such a reaction as the others | 21:04 |
| kanzure | well i figured if i was going to leave, and that was the most enterprise place i've worked, why not crank it up to 100%? :) | 21:04 |
| kanzure | oh well. | 21:05 |
| dingo | i think the lower wigs pushed against having you win the constent because you too blatently(?) appealed to the gimmick it is -- to appease the higher ups, no idea really | 21:05 |
| kanzure | of course it's a gimmick | 21:05 |
| kanzure | it was called gimmick day | 21:05 |
| dingo | hehe | 21:05 |
| dingo | oh we began one worse -- end of sprint, we all demo our work in <5 minutes time | 21:05 |
| dingo | talk about dog and pony show | 21:05 |
| dingo | just began that last friday | 21:06 |
| kanzure | oh wow | 21:06 |
| kanzure | just run the tests. | 21:06 |
| dingo | lol | 21:06 |
| dingo | not too interested in the valuating my stock options as i once was. its a time game now, we'll see how long it plays out | 21:07 |
| kanzure | if i was to do anything in that market, | 21:07 |
| kanzure | i think it would be something about load balancing | 21:08 |
| kanzure | put the load balancer on each node in the cluster | 21:08 |
| kanzure | then you have distributed fault tolerance and load handling | 21:08 |
| kanzure | also some company can definitely have a competitive advantage with libcloud/jclouds if anyone bothered | 21:17 |
| dingo | i'm pretty sure i'll open the newspaper and see we were beat to the competition any day now | 21:18 |
| dingo | i wish it were the alan kay days | 21:19 |
| dingo | you could spend 5 years and lots of money on good research | 21:19 |
| kanzure | i don't think research is the bottleneck. just engineering.. | 21:20 |
| kanzure | and not the warm body style | 21:20 |
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| kanzure | irc logs from #extropy 2002-2003 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/extropy.log | 22:33 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-14 15:04:08 < AlonzoTG> An Eliezer-triggered singularity would probably be worse for me than one triggered by some other researcher. | 22:34 |
| kanzure | pretty funny to see the same trolls were around back then | 22:34 |
| kanzure | the same schizophrenic trolls, even | 22:34 |
| kanzure | also #sl4 logs http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/sl4.log | 22:39 |
| justanotheruser | Is what an eliezer triggered singularity? The wiki for eliezer leaves me not understanding the relation | 22:39 |
| kanzure | huh? it's referring to the person in the channel, eliezer yudkowsky | 22:41 |
| justanotheruser | Oh | 22:42 |
| justanotheruser | "Known for: 'Friendly AI', Harry Potter fan fiction" | 22:43 |
| kanzure | yeah, he's disappointing | 22:43 |
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| kanzure | haha hkhenson was in #evol-psych back then | 22:46 |
| justanotheruser | Seems like he's doing some interesting work Yudkowsky's most recent work is on decision theory for problems of self-modification and Newcomblike problems | 22:46 |
| kanzure | #transinst #immortal #wta #vbc # | 22:50 |
| cpopell | oh man, this is a 23 year old AlonzoTG | 22:51 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: are you implying you don't like him because he's a futurist? | 22:51 |
| kanzure | i don't like eliezer because of a number of reasons, but the primary one is that i just don't agree with his big scary ai idea. i agree that intelligent agents can do terrible things, but i don't agree it's necessarily an interesting observation. | 22:52 |
| kanzure | 25 MB immortality institute logs from #immortal http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/immortal.log | 22:53 |
| ParahSailin | actually he just hate ponies | 22:53 |
| kanzure | 2002-2006 | 22:53 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-24 01:51:42 < Michael> Michael (darkvegeta@ACC2D4D7.ipt.aol.com) has joined #immortal | 22:55 |
| dingo | i was pretty obnoxious in 2002 also | 22:55 |
| dingo | oh aoil.com | 22:55 |
| kanzure | i keep forgetting that michael anissimov was calling himself darkvegeta26@aol.com | 22:55 |
| kanzure | in my eyes darkvegeta26 almost completely redeems him | 22:55 |
| dingo | thats pretty disreputable | 22:55 |
| cpopell | I was going to ask, heh | 22:55 |
| cpopell | if it was Vassar or Anissimov | 22:56 |
| dingo | in 2002 i think you could still ping the pattern +++ATH0 and knock an aol'r offline | 22:56 |
| kanzure | vassar ain't street smart like that | 22:56 |
| kanzure | ever since i learned that nick i keep thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJI9sA5RJWs | 22:57 |
| cpopell | this heaven guy looks like a fun troll | 22:57 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/microfluidic_valves.gif | 22:57 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-24 13:08:36 < AlonzoTG> Eliezer doesn't want to be immortal; he wants to be uploaded. | 22:58 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-24 13:08:38 < AlonzoTG> !!! | 22:58 |
| kanzure | i like how !!! took him an entire two seconds | 22:58 |
| kanzure | that's how serious he was | 22:58 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-24 13:21:35 < nrv8> "I think my efforts could spell the difference between life and death for most of humanity," | 22:58 |
| kanzure | oh man | 22:58 |
| cpopell | 2002-08-31 18:36:15 < heaven> IM HEAVEN GENIUS OF NEW MEXICO | 22:59 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-26 15:09:07 < AlonzoTG> I used to pick on eliezer's ego. | 23:03 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-26 15:09:18 < AlonzoTG> he banned me beacuse I didn't have anything interesting to say. | 23:03 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-26 15:09:36 < AlonzoTG> and I was in full-panic mode about being uploaded. | 23:03 |
| kanzure | you know, at least he's consistent | 23:03 |
| kanzure | he's presently banned from this channel for the exact same reasons | 23:04 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-26 15:54:11 < Eliezer> Eliezer says, "Not unless the Singularity actually happens in the next 10 years." | 23:04 |
| cpopell | 2002-09-28 11:30:12 < Eliezer> there is some Japanese TV, unlike American TV, that is not absolute abject trash | 23:05 |
| kanzure | anime geek | 23:05 |
| cpopell | huh, Hal Finney | 23:07 |
| kanzure | which log are you reading? | 23:07 |
| cpopell | extropy | 23:07 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-28 12:58:38 < nrv8> but at this point i see everything that isnt singularity related as a waste of time | 23:07 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-28 12:58:48 < Eliezer> Eliezer says, "And so it is. :D." | 23:07 |
| kanzure | damn look at how expertly he does cult building | 23:07 |
| kanzure | i'm so ashamed | 23:07 |
| kanzure | of my lack of skillz | 23:07 |
| cpopell | heh | 23:08 |
| cpopell | irc #lesswrong is more cult of gwern than cult of Eliezer | 23:08 |
| kanzure | sure, it could be worse | 23:08 |
| kanzure | 2002-06-29 17:53:13 < Eliezer> Eliezer hands Michael_Away a badge reading 'Everything I need to know in life I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.' | 23:12 |
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| dingo | lunar eclipse started, bit hazy | 23:13 |
| cpopell | too many clouds out | 23:13 |
| dingo | where i am, anyway | 23:13 |
| cpopell | here :( | 23:13 |
| ParahSailin | i can see the moon from my house | 23:13 |
| dingo | you can tell its brighter behind the clouds, but the clouds kinda negate it | 23:13 |
| dingo | lol @ ps | 23:13 |
| * ParahSailin does what he can to keep the name apropos | 23:14 | |
| ParahSailin | shes probably not going to run for prez again, so my joke name is quickly depreciating | 23:14 |
| kanzure | start a rumor that she's been hanging out in a certain irc channel | 23:14 |
| kanzure | with that kid that hacked the federal reserve | 23:14 |
| kanzure | and missile defense agency | 23:15 |
| ParahSailin | who replaced all the gold in fort knox with bitdoge? | 23:15 |
| cpopell | 2002-07-14 07:13:06 < Eliezer> I was predicting the stock-market bust since 1994 :) | 23:15 |
| kanzure | welp time for a #sl4 markov chain bot | 23:19 |
| kanzure | 2002-07-03 16:53:40 < Uthnapishtim> What time frame do you see for the emergence of human equivalent AI? | 23:22 |
| kanzure | 2002-07-03 16:53:53 < Michael> 2007-2015 | 23:22 |
| Viper168 | ParahSailin, there's always Hairllary Cliton | 23:30 |
| Viper168 | :P | 23:31 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Apr 15 00:00:40 2014 | ||
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