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| sheena | https://medeo.ca/about.html | 00:43 |
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| Adifex | What is this, sheena? | 01:06 |
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| sheena | bc's new 'not enough gp' solution | 01:10 |
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| * xmj looks around | 08:58 | |
| kanzure | hello | 08:58 |
| kanzure | been a while | 08:58 |
| xmj | heh, right | 08:58 |
| xmj | weren't you the one with the copy of the entire google plus db? | 08:59 |
| kanzure | nope | 08:59 |
| ParahSailin | i dont think he has that many hard drives | 08:59 |
| xmj | er, play | 08:59 |
| kanzure | yes | 09:00 |
| xmj | righto | 09:00 |
| xmj | ParahSailin: invited me here as i was asking him for a channel with cool folks, but less dickheads than #lesswrong. | 09:01 |
| kanzure | sounds reasonable | 09:01 |
| kanzure | although i'd hate to end up being known as lesswrong2 | 09:02 |
| xmj | yeah that's not a cool reputation to have. | 09:02 |
| Qfwfq | What's wrong with #lesswrong? I would like to make it better, but I'm not sure how best to. | 09:02 |
| ParahSailin | equestrians | 09:02 |
| xmj | nothing per se. i find the attitude of most people self-selcting for rationality quite ... annoying. | 09:03 |
| Qfwfq | So kick all of the horses who won't self-identify. Got it. | 09:03 |
| kanzure | it might be beneficial to have a mental model other than "everyone is a pony" | 09:03 |
| eudoxia | all that stuff about eternal authoritarian happiness is a little creepy sometimes | 09:04 |
| kanzure | xmj: i built hplusroadmap based on the idea that many of transhumanist technologies are actually practical to build and use | 09:05 |
| xmj | launching singularity, eh? | 09:05 |
| kanzure | not necessarily | 09:05 |
| kanzure | i make no claims about that | 09:05 |
| xmj | bummer. | 09:05 |
| xmj | anyway | 09:06 |
| kanzure | it's a bummer that i don't lie through my teeth? | 09:06 |
| xmj | Hi everyone, I'm xmj, an I'm a masochist Unix neckbeard. | 09:06 |
| * xmj chuckles | 09:06 | |
| eudoxia | xmj: so what transhumanist technologies are you most interested in | 09:07 |
| xmj | exocortices, mate. if i could hook up my brain directly into the web (or even upload / fork my self) that'd be awesome. | 09:08 |
| kanzure | so what does direct mean | 09:09 |
| kanzure | do microelectrode arrays count? | 09:09 |
| xmj | probably | 09:09 |
| xmj | as long as i don't have to move muscles to get there | 09:10 |
| xmj | counts | 09:10 |
| xmj | what about you guys? | 09:13 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 09:13 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit | 09:13 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/skdb/ | 09:13 |
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| xmj | interesting, got any good python code around? | 09:15 |
| kardan | I like your social clause about being responsible for the outcome of technology to some extent. | 09:15 |
| ParahSailin | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 09:15 |
| kanzure | kardan: go fuck yourself and die | 09:15 |
| kanzure | kardan: if i didn't like you before why would you continue to think a presence in here is okay | 09:16 |
| kardan | when will you stop that undergraduate behaviour? | 09:16 |
| dingo | :D | 09:16 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ | 09:17 | |
| xmj | kardan: nothing undergraduate about insulting people | 09:17 |
| kardan | maybe you earned some tolerance | 09:17 |
| xmj | theo de raadt and linus torvalds do it all the time. | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | what part of asking someone to die is an insult | 09:17 |
| kardan | it's so silly | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | yes and you're very polluting | 09:18 |
| kardan | I try not to | 09:18 |
| xmj | hm | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | last time we talked, you claimed i was killing people because i didn't like you enough | 09:18 |
| xmj | so the proactionary principle is just Ayn Rand restated. | 09:18 |
| kardan | me? | 09:18 |
| xmj | i like that | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | xmj: it's not ayn rand related, it's stolen from max more | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | xmj: or, it's not intentionally ayn rand related | 09:18 |
| kardan | ayn rand is ok if it WOULD be rational | 09:19 |
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| xmj | "It's not about who is going to let me, it's about who is going to stop me" | 09:19 |
| xmj | ^ Rand | 09:19 |
| xmj | same logic | 09:19 |
| xmj | don't ask for permission, do | 09:19 |
| @kanzure | i would say that is orthogonal logic | 09:19 |
| @kanzure | it's more like "if everyone is waiting for someone else to do it, then it wont happen" | 09:20 |
| @kanzure | and the proactionary principle is specifically a response to the precautionary principle that committees often employ | 09:20 |
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| @kanzure | and these committees are often stuff like, uh, bioethics boards or something | 09:20 |
| kardan | .. but maybe you don't get the difference | 09:20 |
| @kanzure | where they think that because you have a home biology lab, you're going to kill the human race | 09:20 |
| @kanzure | <-- purportedly a "bioterrorist" | 09:20 |
| @kanzure | kardan: pls stay gone | 09:20 |
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| chris_99 | when you can sequence pneumonic plague at home, then maybe we should be a bit more worried? | 09:23 |
| @kanzure | nope | 09:23 |
| @kanzure | just because you can't presently sequence it doesn't mean i haven't | 09:23 |
| chris_99 | and have you? | 09:23 |
| @kanzure | that's for me to know and you to complain about | 09:24 |
| @kanzure | if your threat model can be destroyed by "people knowing the sequence to various plagues" then i suggest having a better threat model | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | there's already many natural viruses and bacteria that are very devastating, even without human intervention | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | and it turns out thta the response to natural viruses and plagues etc is exactly the same as the response to human-created plagues | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | *that | 09:25 |
| chris_99 | no i know it's easy to get hold of the sequence | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | you're not going to filter your air any less just because it was man made or not | 09:26 |
| chris_99 | i'm just thinking maybe when sequencers are more commonly available etc., then maybe terrorists etc. would make use of them. I don't think theres anything that you could realistically do to stop that from happening | 09:26 |
| @kanzure | um, bad actors can make use of them even if they are uncommonly available | 09:27 |
| @kanzure | that's the stupidest statement i've heard you make, ever | 09:27 |
| chris_99 | true, i think naturally the likelihood of someone using them naturally increases though, if they're more easily available. | 09:28 |
| xmj | its the same logic obama uses do forbid drugs and guns. | 09:28 |
| xmj | it's really working well. | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | obama forbids guns? | 09:28 |
| chris_99 | news to me | 09:28 |
| xmj | tries to.. | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | food should also be forbidden because it could be eaten by bad actors | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | it is "dual use" | 09:28 |
| xmj | worse, it can make you fat. | 09:29 |
| @kanzure | the worst terrorism | 09:29 |
| xmj | while we're at it.. bad actors breathe. | 09:29 |
| catern | obama banned burgers, too https://warosu.org/data/lit/img/0031/52/1353091591577.jpg | 09:29 |
| @kanzure | just because we hope that viruses don't happen isn't a good reason to not have good security models | 09:30 |
| @kanzure | independent of whether or not a virus comes from a bad actor or from nature, you're still just as vulnerable to the same attacks | 09:30 |
| @kanzure | the focus should not be on trying to pretend that nobody knows how to make dna sequencers and dna synthesizers | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | but rather on equipment and tools to make you less vulnerable to chemical and biological warfare | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | whether "artificial" or "natural" | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | s/warfare/disease | 09:32 |
| chris_99 | mm true | 09:32 |
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| eudoxia | 02:34 < kanzure-> one of my monitors is always showing who is accessing my site. | 09:39 |
| eudoxia | "oppresively colossal" | 09:39 |
| chris_99 | can anyone recommend any cheapo trinocular microscopes per chance? | 09:45 |
| chris_99 | ..or at least one you can shove a camera on | 09:45 |
| mosasaur | Qfwfq: I'm really sorry about #lesswrong, but what can one do against eternal september? | 09:45 |
| eudoxia | are you really sure the problem is eternal september? | 09:46 |
| mosasaur | eudoxia: It's an euphemism for young people who engage in signaling contests | 09:47 |
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| cluckj | damn I go afk and all this fun happens | 09:52 |
| @kanzure | i don't think young people are the problem | 10:01 |
| cluckj | it's just all people? | 10:02 |
| cluckj | :) | 10:02 |
| eudoxia | is it bronies? | 10:02 |
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| chris_99 | is it possible to mutate the DNA viruses easily, so vaccines don't work? | 10:03 |
| chris_99 | *of viruses | 10:03 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: take a look at directed evolution | 10:03 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: the pony fixation doesn't seem to help | 10:03 |
| chris_99 | merci | 10:04 |
| @kanzure | cluckj: sure i'd much more readily say all people before i'd say young people | 10:04 |
| @kanzure | cluckj: in my head i'm, like, 12 | 10:04 |
| cluckj | hah | 10:04 |
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| @kanzure | cluckj: i have recovered some historical logs from #extropy #sl4 #immortal etc | 10:05 |
| cluckj | anything interesting? | 10:06 |
| @kanzure | cluckj: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/irclogs/ | 10:06 |
| @kanzure | bunch of the oldfolks were on that irc server- max more, natasha vita-more, eliezer yudkowsky, hal finney, michael anissimov, etc | 10:06 |
| @kanzure | some of the same trolls that inflict this channel too (AlonzoTG) | 10:07 |
| @kanzure | but now i have to wonder why they have never bothered visiting here | 10:07 |
| @kanzure | they didn't seem like the irc types (except eliezer, who i knew was in #sl4) | 10:08 |
| cluckj | too busy with the irl trolling, I supppose | 10:08 |
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| eudoxia | < MichaelA> Heck, Newt Gingrich (former speaker of the house) told us to stay tuned for nano in 15 years or less, I believe | 10:10 |
| eudoxia | ah, youth and innocence | 10:10 |
| * xmj reads backlog | 10:11 | |
| cluckj | lol | 10:11 |
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| chris_99 | what's the maximum no. of base pairs a sequencer can roughly do? i just read something that say it's ~1 mil, is that roughly right | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | short fragments, then you use software to assemble the full sequence | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | short fragments have traditionally been <500bp each, sometimes 20bp | 10:18 |
| chris_99 | is that called ligation, i forget? where you join them | 10:18 |
| cluckj | yes | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | ligation is where you join two fragments of dna | 10:19 |
| @kanzure | into a physical molecule | 10:19 |
| chris_99 | ok, so could someone theoretically at least synthesis the plague, which seems to be 4.6 mil. base pairs, or is that too difficult at the moment | 10:19 |
| @kanzure | they could synthesize it if they try pretty hard | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | but then there's the additional problem of getting it into an appropriate virus capsid | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | which plague is this? are all plagues bacterial? | 10:20 |
| cluckj | why would you even want to do that | 10:20 |
| cluckj | plague bacteria are endemic | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | i wouldn't want to do that, i was just wondering if it's possible | 10:21 |
| @kanzure | oh okay, well for bacteria obviously the virus capsid comment doesn't apply, but you do need a cellular chasis that takes the genomic data | 10:21 |
| cluckj | craig venter printed out an entire genome, so sure it's possible if you have millions of dollars and dozens of scientists, and a well-equipped lab | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | his work wasn't just about printing a genome | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | once you synthesize the dna you have to do something with it. it doesn't just spontaneously turn into a cell. | 10:22 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 10:22 |
| cluckj | yes | 10:22 |
| eudoxia | it's hard to grep for mentions of eugen in the logs because it keeps matching 'eugenics' :> | 10:23 |
| chris_99 | kanzure, is it the shape of the capsid that would roughly allow the immune system to detect it? or is it something else | 10:23 |
| cluckj | eudoxia, I bet they talk a lot about that :P | 10:23 |
| eudoxia | huh i didn't know AlonzoTG was a 9/11 truther | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | http://dangerousprototypes.com/2014/04/16/the-deal-with-dirty-cheap-dirty-boards-pcbs/ | 10:27 |
| cluckj | lol how old are those logs | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | 2002-2006 | 10:28 |
| eudoxia | < AlonzoTG> I only watch Jon Stewart and Anime. | 10:28 |
| eudoxia | < AlonzoTG> Everything else is a waste. | 10:28 |
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| cluckj | o_o | 10:29 |
| cluckj | oh dear | 10:29 |
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| @kanzure | ParahSailin: what was the full set of problems with the gfp plant kickstarter project? | 10:55 |
| ParahSailin | i thought it was a luciferase plant | 10:56 |
| @kanzure | i don't even remember | 10:56 |
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| nmz787_i1 | problems or challenges? | 10:58 |
| cluckj | anyone heard any progress about their plants? | 11:00 |
| ParahSailin | that kickstarter got canceled | 11:00 |
| @kanzure | not challenges | 11:01 |
| @kanzure | i specifically mean the scammy parts | 11:01 |
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| nmz787_i1 | cancelled? | 11:04 |
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| @kanzure | http://lesswrong.com/lw/jgz/aalwa_ask_any_lesswronger_anything/ap84 "I do have some early role models. I recall wanting to be a real-life version of the fictional "Sandor Arbitration Intelligence at the Zoo" (from Vernor Vinge's novel A Fire Upon the Deep) who in the story is known for consistently writing the clearest and most insightful posts on the Net. And then there was Hal Finney who probably came closest to an actual real-life version ... | 11:06 |
| @kanzure | ... of Sandor at the Zoo, and Tim May who besides inspiring me with his vision of cryptoanarchy was also a role model for doing early retirement from the tech industry and working on his own interests/causes." | 11:06 |
| @kanzure | wei dai joined the extropians mailing list or did his first post 1997-09-20 .. that's disappointing. | 11:08 |
| @kanzure | evidence http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q97/4116.html | 11:08 |
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| @kanzure | hal's review of the ending to "a fire upon the deep" http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.2Q97/1336.html | 11:11 |
| @kanzure | ewwww carl feynman worked at oracle | 11:13 |
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| @kanzure | $ tbl --help | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | Segmentation fault | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | i'm doomed | 11:42 |
| dingo | .pǝʍǝɹɔs ʎllɐǝɹ ǝɹ,noʎ ʍou ɥo | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | hm? | 11:43 |
| @kanzure | well i can't read manpages anymore | 11:43 |
| @kanzure | so yes.. | 11:43 |
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| @kanzure | dingo: any thoughts? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/tbl.log | 11:48 |
| dingo | well there is protected memory mapped W^X stuff | 11:49 |
| dingo | so if this is some kind of JIT or similar | 11:49 |
| dingo | which tries to execute code from dynamic memory | 11:49 |
| dingo | what is tbl anyway ... do i have that ... | 11:49 |
| @kanzure | man uses it apparently | 11:49 |
| dingo | ahh troff | 11:49 |
| dingo | boy are you ever fuckered | 11:49 |
| dingo | well check your dmesg | 11:50 |
| dingo | if you're using grsec or similar there may be something there | 11:50 |
| @kanzure | [461783.573082] tbl[5536]: segfault at 7fd148551108 ip 00007fd1462178ff sp 00007fff1e1a5a30 error 4 in libc-2.17.so[7fd1461aa000+1a2000] | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | [461783.574826] groff[5541]: segfault at 7f6bc657e108 ip 00007f6bc42448ff sp 00007fff21897980 error 4 in libc-2.17.so[7f6bc41d7000+1a2000] | 11:51 |
| dingo | and there you have it, your libc is a bit borked. | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | hmm | 11:51 |
| dingo | if you updated recently, your libc, you may need a reboot | 11:52 |
| @kanzure | so i'm doomed | 11:52 |
| dingo | openbsd calls these "flag days" -- where libc + kernel ABI changes, and all new binaries must be compiled | 11:52 |
| dingo | or maybe the rootkit you have planted by agents is malfunctioning :-) | 11:54 |
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| @kanzure | fixed: sudo apt-get install libc6:amd64 | 12:14 |
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| @kanzure | http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html "warning signs in experimental design and interpretation" | 13:00 |
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| @kanzure | https://www.secondmarket.com/bitcoin-trading | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | https://www.secondmarket.com/illiquid-assets | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | so this is where i'm supposed to buy cell towers? got it. | 13:21 |
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| @kanzure | 13:48 <+nsh> all my life, especially the past 6 seconds of it which i predominantly remember, i have wished to be part of a homoerotic postage stamp collection | 13:50 |
| eudoxia | i don't think i've ever seen a postage stamp | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | no obsessive stamp collecting? pfft | 13:51 |
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| nsh | never seen a stamp?? | 14:01 |
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| jrayhawk | eudoxia lives in some far-off moon-land | 14:36 |
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| nmz787_i | maybe he just has a different term for postage stamp? | 15:02 |
| nmz787_i | s/he/they/ | 15:02 |
| eudoxia | nope | 15:02 |
| nmz787_i | eudoxia: have you never used snail-mail? | 15:04 |
| eudoxia | nope | 15:04 |
| nmz787_i | you must be a bot, then | 15:04 |
| eudoxia | heh, the closest thing to snail mail i used was fax some papers | 15:04 |
| nmz787_i | psh | 15:04 |
| nmz787_i | that doesn't count | 15:05 |
| nmz787_i | that's clearly 'e' | 15:05 |
| eudoxia | i went to a post office but ended up fedexing the documents | 15:05 |
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| nmz787_i | snuffeluffegus: thanks for reminding me of the SNL or MadTV skit featuring snuffeluffegus | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i | oh, actually it was Dave Chappelle | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i | http://poetry.rapgenius.com/2178725/Dave-chappelle-killin-them-softly/And-and-elephant-thats-a-junkie-hi-bird-yeah-thats-right-snuffy-hi-bird-im-sick-i-need-some-smack-bird | 15:08 |
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| @kanzure | i don't know what any of those words mean | 15:16 |
| drazak | kanzure: do you know who nicknameavailable is on reddit? | 15:19 |
| drazak | he's into synbio apparently | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | nope | 15:19 |
| drazak | weird | 15:20 |
| drazak | he wants schematics to make a 20ghz oscilloscope | 15:20 |
| drazak | diy! | 15:20 |
| drazak | great part? it'll cost 5x as much as just buying one, for no gain (the process is ridiculous, not something that can be done until other processes are worked out) | 15:20 |
| drazak | http://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/235xp0/dc20ghz_oscilloscope_schematics/ | 15:20 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, happen to know what are the consumables when operating a FIB? | 16:37 |
| cpopell2 | Okay, that contract is done. | 16:37 |
| cpopell2 | Ugh. | 16:37 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: ask nmz787 | 16:41 |
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| ParahSailin | kanzure: i think new rule of no questions before doing a search first | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | but then i'd be a hypocrite | 16:59 |
| @kanzure | i mean, more than i already am | 16:59 |
| ParahSailin | maybe just a rule for delinguent | 17:00 |
| @kanzure | have we confirmed whether or not he's tried stims yet? | 17:00 |
| @kanzure | i remember asking but i think he deflected | 17:01 |
| cpopell2 | He certainly posts like it on FB. | 17:01 |
| ParahSailin | anyway, the consumable, which you might find on the wikipedia is a liquid metal that is not a terminator | 17:01 |
| FourFire | 20Ghz ?! | 17:18 |
| @kanzure | "dynamic epistemic logic" http://www.idt.mdh.se/personal/gdc/work/OPEN-PROBLEMS/pdf/Dynamic2010.BOOK.89newBenthem.pdf | 17:19 |
| @kanzure | cluckj: that stuff might be interesting to you | 17:19 |
| cluckj | math | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | nah | 17:21 |
| cluckj | logic | 17:22 |
| cluckj | brain...melting... | 17:22 |
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| @kanzure | bower angular#1.2.6 ECMDERR Failed to execute "git ls-remote --tags --heads git://github.com/angular/bower-angular.git", exit code of #128 | 18:31 |
| @kanzure | seems to exist to me | 18:32 |
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| @kanzure | 19:16 < kevlarman> Wild_Cat: if you want a real mindfuck, check out the exploit where they managed to extract rsa private key bits from a different vm on the same hardware by clearing out the cpu's cache and measuring the time it takes in order to figure out which addresses were accessed | 19:17 |
| @kanzure | is there a sun tzu of malware? | 19:20 |
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| @kanzure | any thoughts about epoll_wait issues in node? https://github.com/gulpjs/gulp/issues/167#issuecomment-40677759 | 20:46 |
| xmj | did you see the excellent rant against node? | 20:47 |
| xmj | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzkRVzciAZg | 20:47 |
| @kanzure | you want me to watch an entire video? geeze | 20:48 |
| xmj | it's fun. | 20:48 |
| xmj | I don't usually like bears talking to each others | 20:48 |
| xmj | but the content and style of this one is excellent. | 20:48 |
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| ParahSailin | what is fd5 | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | how would i know? | 20:57 |
| ParahSailin | scroll up | 20:57 |
| ParahSailin | it was opened or bound somewhere | 20:58 |
| @kanzure | i don't think epoll_wait takes a file descriptor, so the 5 is probably something else | 20:58 |
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| @kanzure | this problem is fairly recent | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | i'm pretty sure i didn't upgrade these packages | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | same version of node etc | 21:00 |
| ParahSailin | most certainly is a file descriptor | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | node 30420 kanzure 6u 0000 0,9 0 2398 anon_inode | 21:06 |
| @kanzure | COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME | 21:06 |
| @kanzure | anything else i should look for? | 21:08 |
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| @kanzure | node debug /usr/local/bin/gulp clean | 21:38 |
| @kanzure | continue -> bt -> "can't request backtrace now" well what's the point | 21:39 |
| ParahSailin | look what epoll_ctl stuck onto that fd5 | 21:58 |
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| @kanzure | ParahSailin: any hints how? | 22:07 |
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| jrayhawk | huh, why doesn't your lsof have TID? | 22:10 |
| jrayhawk | i guess that must be a version thing | 22:10 |
| @kanzure | is this possibly a libc, libm, libpthread, libstdc++, librt, libdl, ld problem? | 22:13 |
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| @kanzure | why is batman only a streetfighter? why not throw around his money to kill companies etc. | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/826028937/batman-the-least-believable-superhero | 22:24 |
| xentrac | http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/april/chemistry-award-prakash-040814.html is about programming microfluidics chips with punched paper tape and a mechanical control mechanism | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | you may enjoy reading http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ | 22:26 |
| xentrac | I had noticed it but not yet doven in | 22:27 |
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| juul | nanobiopsy: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn405097u | 22:35 |
| @kanzure | i think you mean paperbot | 22:37 |
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| @kanzure | remote: warning: inexact rename detection was skipped due to too many files. | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | remote: warning: you may want to set your merge.renamelimit variable to at least 2388 and retry the command. | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | remote: From /srv/git/pokecrystal | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | remote: f860c98..608fdac master -> origin/master | 22:53 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 17 00:00:42 2014 | ||
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