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| fenn | offline wikipedia viewer | 01:12 |
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| nmz787 | diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/3D_MEMS_Design_Method_via_SolidWorks.pdf | 01:15 |
| nmz787 | I have no idea what that paper is doing | 01:16 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: awake? can you recommend a good dexter's lab episode to watch? | 01:17 |
| fenn | .title http://stylebot.me/styles/5568 | 01:17 |
| * fenn wonders where yoleaux went | 01:18 | |
| fenn | anyway, i fixed the awful gigantic button bar in google groups | 01:18 |
| fenn | it was a clusterfuck | 01:18 |
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| fenn | nmz787: ren and stimpy episodes "space madness", "marooned", and "black hole" are pretty good | 01:39 |
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| dingo | 'rick and morty' is a great new show | 02:00 |
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| fenn | i ended up finding the best wikipedia torrent on, yep, the pirate bay: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/9704733/Entirety_of_Wikipedia_in_English_with_pictures_[40GB] | 02:14 |
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| xmj | anyone here read http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0092413 ? | 03:11 |
| xmj | .article http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0092413 | 03:11 |
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| AshleyWaffle | http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/240tec/cantwell_drama_war_escalates_into_fullon/ | 03:28 |
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| fenn | .title http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0092413 | 04:31 |
| yoleaux | PLOS ONE: Using Friends as Sensors to Detect Global-Scale Contagious Outbreaks | 04:31 |
| fenn | sounds deviously devilish | 04:32 |
| xmj | should be awesome for social engineering hacks to your friend network | 04:34 |
| fenn | AshleyWaffle: a link to a reddit linking to screenshots of facebook about some whining between people we don't know and don't care about? why? | 04:37 |
| fenn | AshleyWaffle: are you actually trying to lower the signal to noise ratio of this channel? | 04:37 |
| xentrac | jrayhawk: thank you for the papers! | 04:44 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0092413 | 07:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Using%20Friends%20as%20Sensors%20to%20Detect%20Global-Scale%20Contagious%20Outbreaks.pdf | 07:04 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm only doing this to get tenure. | 07:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: here you go, | 07:04 |
| kanzure | 02:23 <+dpk> kanzure: archive.org's torrent tracker ought to do that stuff | 07:04 |
| kanzure | 02:23 <+dpk> kanzure: and, if you find comprehensive Usenet archives anywhere that aren't under Google's lock and key … you'll be an internet superhero | 07:04 |
| xmj | kanzure: good catch | 07:06 |
| xmj | reads interesting. | 07:07 |
| kanzure | i didn't want to bother finding the pdf on my own | 07:07 |
| kanzure | i already put the effort into the paperbot, why should i be subjected to the existential horror that is plosone.org? | 07:07 |
| kanzure | and your sarcasm is poorly done | 07:07 |
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| kanzure | hrm | 07:34 |
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| archels | paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/0967-3334/21/1/301/pdf/0967-3334_21_1_301.pdf | 07:56 |
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| paperbot | AssertionError: ElementTree not initialized, missing root (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 53, in _go) | 08:16 |
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| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0967-3334/21/1/301 | 08:17 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20comparison%20of%20modified%20Howland%20circuits%20as%20current%20generators%20with%20current%20mirror%20type%20circuits.pdf | 08:17 |
| kanzure | paperbot took a long time on that iop paper | 08:20 |
| ebowden | Oh, ParahSailin, I forget, what was it you worked with? | 08:22 |
| kanzure | stop doing that | 08:22 |
| kanzure | you should just ask questions without caring whether ParahSailin or me or anyone else answers | 08:23 |
| kanzure | "fields of study" is horse crap | 08:23 |
| kanzure | smelly horse crap | 08:23 |
| kanzure | not the good kind | 08:23 |
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| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/msb.145228 | 08:58 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d14902f261f0efb1e1afc4a533c7eb29.txt | 08:58 |
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| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/msb.20145228 | 09:00 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9f3c1f6bb5b02c96fd900e290172fd73.txt | 09:00 |
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| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/systemantics.pdf (28 MB) | 11:13 |
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| kanzure | that was much shorter and boring than i thought it would be | 11:39 |
| kanzure | and a great deal more pessimism than necessary | 11:39 |
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| kanzure | and it doesn't explain why anything works at all in the first place | 11:48 |
| cpopell`sleep | What sort of systems are you hoping to read about? | 11:49 |
| kanzure | i don't think that's my goal? | 11:50 |
| cpopell`sleep | okay, why did you read that book | 11:50 |
| kanzure | because i had read the wikipedia article, and i wanted to see the book | 11:50 |
| kanzure | turns out the wikipedia article is better | 11:50 |
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| delinquentme | Is it totally nuts to think that if we took tissue / cell samples from a currently ages human, and fixed up the methlyation to be modeled after a younger set of DNA , performed this modification in mass and then injected them into their respective tissues | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | that this would lessen effects of aging? | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | I mean isn't this the function which is tied to heterochronic parabiosis? as well as the beneficial growth factors extreted by "younger" immuno identical cells? | 11:52 |
| cpopell`sleep | you could always go write a grant proposal | 11:53 |
| kanzure | that's a boring answer | 11:54 |
| cpopell`sleep | kanzure: it'll occupy him 100 hours and get him to focus on one topic for that long, though! | 11:55 |
| kanzure | no it wont | 11:55 |
| kanzure | he is incapable of that | 11:55 |
| delinquentme | But it would work right? | 11:55 |
| delinquentme | I love it the career academics cutting on me because the cognitive dissonance caused by switching costs in focuses | 11:55 |
| kanzure | it wont make you spend 100 hours on a grant | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | cpopell`sleep, seriously dont add to the noise. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | if that's what you mean by will it work | 11:56 |
| cpopell`sleep | I'm not a career academic, I just see you on facebook. | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | cpopell`sleep, add to the convo or dont. | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | talking heads, we dont fucking need them. thanks. | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, I'm asking if this is inline with out best knowledge on the topic | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | methlyation patters are essentially how embryonic differs from IPSCs | 11:57 |
| gradstudentbot | The grant got rejected. | 11:57 |
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| xentrac | delinquentme: I don't know enough to know if that will work but it sounds like one of the elements of SENS? | 12:46 |
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| kanzure | fenn: ted should write a story where there's a conservation of cognitive effort, and it gets shifted around. or maybe egan. probably ted. | 14:00 |
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| pasky | paperbot: http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/ijoc.2.1.4 | 14:34 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/bb89484d750ba85af30792f8a6f0a8c7.txt | 14:34 |
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| pasky | hmm | 14:35 |
| pasky | paperbot: http://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/pdf/10.1287/ijoc.2.1.4 | 14:35 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fe221c9f37a55a7d313492a2c438ffa0.txt | 14:35 |
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| kanzure | http://miki.it/images/bitiodine_design.png | 14:59 |
| kanzure | "CLUSTERIZER -> clusters" ugh | 14:59 |
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| kanzure | rm blockchain.tar.gz y/n? | 15:38 |
| kanzure | from 2013-12-03, 7 GB, so most likely behind | 15:39 |
| kanzure | "Enhancing the role of ultrasound with contrast agents" including "Guidance of Percutaneous Tumor Ablation Procedures" | 15:42 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast-enhanced_ultrasound | 15:42 |
| kanzure | "Contrast-enhanced ultrasound (CEUS) is the application of ultrasound contrast medium to traditional medical sonography. Ultrasound contrast agents rely on the different ways in which sound waves are reflected from interfaces between substances. This may be the surface of a small air bubble or a more complex structure. Commercially available contrast media are gas-filled microbubbles that are administered intravenously to the systemic ... | 15:42 |
| kanzure | ... circulation. Microbubbles have a high degree of echogenicity, which is the ability of an object to reflect the ultrasound waves." | 15:43 |
| kanzure | "argeted microbubbles are under preclinical development. They retain the same general features as untargeted microbubbles, but they are outfitted with ligands that bind specific receptors expressed by cell types of interest, such as inflamed cells or cancer cells. Current microbubbles in development are composed of a lipid monolayer shell with a perflurocarbon gas core. The lipid shell is also covered with a polyethylene glycol (PEG) layer. ... | 15:43 |
| kanzure | ... PEG prevents microbubble aggregation and makes the microbubble more non-reactive. It temporarily “hides” the microbubble from the immune system uptake, increasing the amount of circulation time, and hence, imaging time.[5]" | 15:43 |
| kanzure | "Gene Delivery: Vector DNA can be conjugated to the microbubbles. Microbubbles can be targeted with ligands that bind to receptors expressed by the cell type of interest. When the targeted microbubble accumulates at the cell surface with its DNA payload, ultrasound can be used to burst the microbubble. The force associated with the bursting may temporarily permeablize surrounding tissues and allow the DNA to more easily enter the cells." | 15:44 |
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| kanzure | "Ultrasound produces more heat as the frequency increases, so the ultrasonic frequency must be carefully monitored." aka stimulation yo | 15:45 |
| kanzure | "Microbubbles burst at low ultrasound frequencies and at high mechanical indices (MI), which is the measure of the acoustic power output of the ultrasound imaging system. Increasing MI increases image quality, but there are tradeoffs with microbubble destruction. Microbubble destruction could cause local microvasculature ruptures and hemolysis" | 15:45 |
| kanzure | maybe someone has tried a liganderized microbubble for ultrasound stimulation or tumor ablation | 15:46 |
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| kanzure | um, this seems to claim they were able to target the hippocampus with microbubbles: http://orion.bme.columbia.edu/ueil/documents/article/2011-choi-bbb-pulses-microbubbles.pdf | 16:04 |
| kanzure | "One of the advantages of FUS-induced BBB disruption is the ability to noninvasively, locally, and transiently deliver agents to a target region of interest. Large molecules of 3, 10, and 70 kDa were delivered to the left hippocampus, which is relevant for several drugs such as bace-1 inhibitors and brain-derived neurotrophic factors." | 16:09 |
| kanzure | this one is also cool: "Intracerebral administration of ultrasound-induced dissolution of lipid-coated GDNF microbubbles provides neuroprotection in a rat model of Parkinson's disease" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0361923014000252 | 16:15 |
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| kanzure | hm well if it was carrying something that could stimulate a neuron it would have to get out of the bloodstream first | 16:22 |
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| fenn | "hplusroadmap: the cognitive load stops here" | 17:55 |
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| fenn | "read my lips: no new cognitive taxes" | 17:56 |
| fenn | the pitfalls of an attention economy | 17:56 |
| fenn | "gas-filled microbubbles that are administered intravenously" holy shit that's awesome | 17:59 |
| fenn | you know how in "the abyss" they submerge the rat (and the un/fortunate human) in perfluoroalkanes,, you could use the same microbubble capsulation tech to increase blood oxygenation capacity | 18:01 |
| fenn | is this thing on | 18:01 |
| fenn | thunderstorm | 18:01 |
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| * eudoxia mumbles something about respirocytes | 18:03 | |
| fenn | eudoxia: how do you do that? | 18:08 |
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| FourFire | I just found out about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krista_and_Tatiana_Hogan | 18:08 |
| FourFire | They share parts of their brain | 18:08 |
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| fenn | they are also pro wrestlers | 18:09 |
| eudoxia | fenn: "freitas <bah blah> money <mumble mumble> richard smalley ruined it all <guttural sounds>" | 18:09 |
| fenn | eudoxia: i meant how you appear suddenly from the mists of ether | 18:09 |
| eudoxia | fenn: well i read the logs compulsively | 18:10 |
| eudoxia | and have a little bit of js produce a link to today's and yesterday's logs in my homepage | 18:10 |
| eudoxia | s/homepage/browser start page | 18:10 |
| fenn | oh i thought maybe it was some cool lisp thing that acts like an irc session without actually connecting | 18:10 |
| eudoxia | i haven't reached the point where i have a monitor exclusively dedicated to showing the logs in real time, no | 18:11 |
| FourFire | fenn, was that a joke? | 18:12 |
| fenn | FourFire: not a very good one | 18:12 |
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| FourFire | I guess this is old news to you people | 18:12 |
| fenn | no, i had no idea who they were | 18:12 |
| FourFire | but two seperate distinct people sharing parts of the same brain seems pretty interesting (and scary) to me | 18:13 |
| FourFire | I wonder how mentally developed they are now | 18:13 |
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| fenn | oh i did see a short documentary about them | 18:16 |
| fenn | they tickle one girl and the other laughs | 18:16 |
| eudoxia | i wonder if as they grow they skull area around where they are joined will fracture or something | 18:17 |
| fenn | that's what the adamantium exoskeleton is for | 18:18 |
| fenn | woo 10 minutes until i have my very own wikipedia | 18:20 |
| fenn | i wonder why nobody is selling it on DVD | 18:21 |
| xentrac | fenn: how much oxygen can your blood hold now, and how much would it be able to hold in microbubbles? | 18:22 |
| fenn | i have no idea | 18:22 |
| xentrac | this sounds like a thing you could calculate more or less | 18:22 |
| fenn | it's complicated because of hemoglobin | 18:23 |
| fenn | someone's probably measured though | 18:23 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't think my PI remembers me. | 18:23 |
| xentrac | I'm sure normal hematocrit, blood volume, hemoglobin sensity, and oxygen/hemoglobin mass ratio are well-known numbers that you could multiply | 18:24 |
| fenn | theoretically "20 ml of O2 per 100 mL of blood" (those units seem wrong, ml of oxygen?) | 18:24 |
| fenn | "1 g of hemoglobin theoretically can bind a maximum of 1.34 mL of oxygen at standard temperature and pressure, but this value is never actually achieved in vivo because of factors such as the formation of carboxyhemoglobin and the presence of methemoglobin or other inactive hemoglobins." | 18:25 |
| xentrac | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=128408463846483&set=a.185551951465467.38579.128407360513260&type=1&theater | 18:25 |
| xentrac | photo of Tatiana and Krista | 18:25 |
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| fenn | "Patent 4927623 1. Field of the Invention:The present invention relates to the art of biocompatible oxygen transport and contrast enhancement agents for animal use, and more particularly to biocompatibly fluid fluorocarbon containing emulsions" | 18:28 |
| xentrac | 20 mL of oxygen per 100 mL is about the same as what air contains | 18:29 |
| fenn | sure, spoil the party | 18:30 |
| xentrac | gases aren't very dense | 18:31 |
| xentrac | as a general rule | 18:31 |
| fenn | so you'd probably want two kinds of respirocytes, one to dissolve oxygen and one to dissolve carbon dioxide | 18:32 |
| fenn | there was some proposal about pumping molecules up an energy gradient but i think that's too complex for a first step | 18:33 |
| xentrac | to cite two more surprising results of this, seawater contains more CO₂ per volume than air does, and pure fluorine is not the best source of fluorine at STP | 18:33 |
| fenn | what do you mean "best source of fluorine"? | 18:34 |
| xentrac | most available fluorine for fluoridating things per mL | 18:34 |
| fenn | like SF6 has more fluorine than F2? | 18:34 |
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| fenn | (about three times as much, i'd wager) | 18:35 |
| xentrac | it has more, but it isn't really very available | 18:35 |
| xentrac | I mean, you can breathe SF₆ | 18:35 |
| xentrac | without combusting | 18:35 |
| fenn | lol | 18:36 |
| xentrac | whereas breathing fluorine will cause you to combust | 18:36 |
| fenn | you can breathe CO2 without combusting too | 18:36 |
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| xentrac | yes, and in fact CO₂ is pretty terrible as a source of oxygen | 18:37 |
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| xentrac | to the point that you can use it in welding to keep (some) metals from oxidizing | 18:37 |
| xentrac | however, ClF₃ is excellent as a source of fluorine | 18:37 |
| fenn | today i learned about interhalogens | 18:38 |
| xentrac | truly awe-inspiring substances | 18:39 |
| fenn | "ClF3 reacts more violently than fluorine, often explosively." | 18:40 |
| fenn | oh there is a ClF5 too | 18:41 |
| xentrac | that sounds like a positively impractical substance | 18:41 |
| xentrac | like neutronium | 18:41 |
| fenn | iodine heptafluoride | 18:42 |
| fenn | neutronium seems eminently practical | 18:42 |
| xentrac | for what? | 18:43 |
| fenn | "starquake" is about creatures that evolved on a neutron star; humans in a spaceship happen by and hilarity ensues due to the difference in time scales. 1 second is about 1000 subjective years for the neutronium people | 18:44 |
| eudoxia | robert forward should have become more famous | 18:45 |
| fenn | at some point there is a technology transfer; turns out having stupidly fast timescales based on nuclear force interactions makes for fast computers | 18:45 |
| xentrac | the problem is that you have to build your computer on a neutron star | 18:45 |
| fenn | the neutronium people develop a space program where they figure out how to contain neutronium with microsingularities or something | 18:46 |
| fenn | oh, "dragon's egg" is the first book | 18:46 |
| eudoxia | are neutronium femtocomputers even remotely possible | 18:47 |
| xentrac | there's a big difference between "hypothetical undiscovered physics introduced as a plot device in a novel would make it practical" and "practical" | 18:47 |
| xentrac | in my book anyway | 18:47 |
| eudoxia | xentrac: "greg egan" practical | 18:47 |
| xentrac | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride is a highly entertaining Wikipedia page | 18:47 |
| xentrac | .g "greg egan" practical | 18:48 |
| yoleaux | http://www.technologyreview.com/review/523826/an-ai-pal-that-is-better-than-her/ | 18:48 |
| fenn | such a tiny font | 18:48 |
| xentrac | that article is very interesting indeed | 18:49 |
| eudoxia | i think it's quite readable | 18:49 |
| xentrac | I especially like the "solubility" section of that Wikipedia page | 18:50 |
| eudoxia | "It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers" | 18:52 |
| eudoxia | hah | 18:52 |
| xentrac | all of Ignition is good reading | 18:55 |
| xentrac | I'm amused that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highly_toxic_gases exists | 18:55 |
| fenn | the lists articles are the best thing about wikipedia | 18:58 |
| fenn | i should print a wikibook, List of lists of things | 18:59 |
| xentrac | that sounds like a good idea | 18:59 |
| xentrac | you should use my tiny font | 18:59 |
| fenn | speaking of which, my 45000 articles are ready | 18:59 |
| xentrac | oh cool, which ones? | 19:00 |
| fenn | kiwix screenshot http://fennetic.net/irc/wikipedia_0.8_kiwix.png | 19:01 |
| xentrac | kiwix is good | 19:01 |
| fenn | it doesn't have "interhalogen" | 19:03 |
| fenn | this is also 4 years old | 19:04 |
| fenn | i couldn't find one under 8GB that was more recent but also comprehensive | 19:04 |
| fenn | there's a few "simple english" but meh | 19:04 |
| fenn | anyway the 40GB one should be everything i want, published feb 2014 | 19:05 |
| fenn | maybe i can reduce the file size with your byn techniques or even just resizing the thumbnails | 19:06 |
| fenn | Chlamydia infection · Chlodwig, Prince of Hohenlohe-Schillingsfürst · Chloramphenicol · Chlordiazepoxide · Chloride · Chlorine · Chlorine dioxide · Chlorofluorocarbon · Chloroform · Chlorophyll · Chlorophyta · Chloroplast · Chlorpromazine · Chmod · | 19:07 |
| xentrac | by the way, "byn" is an abbreviation for "blanco y negro" | 19:07 |
| fenn | that's okay, it's unique and short | 19:08 |
| xentrac | yes | 19:08 |
| fenn | i figured it was "bynary" or something | 19:08 |
| xentrac | it seems like it should be possible to select the top N articles by hit count | 19:08 |
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| fenn | "random article" from the 45000 actually doesn't suck | 19:12 |
| fenn | oh cool it has animated gifs | 19:13 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_diffusion | 19:13 |
| fenn | i wonder if i can force a css override in their xulrunner | 19:14 |
| fenn | hm it does skins and inverted colors out of the box, that's pretty sweet | 19:15 |
| gradstudentbot | The fluorescent microscope is broken. | 19:16 |
| fenn | hue inverted, weird | 19:17 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net//irc/kiwix_hue_inverted.png | 19:20 |
| xentrac | that looks like the hue is not inverted, but rather the value | 19:22 |
| xentrac | or intensity | 19:22 |
| kanzure | fenn: the story would attempt to explain why people have "off" days ("all the computational capacity was shifted to those other jerks") | 19:23 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/irc/kiwix_hue_invert2.png http://fennetic.net/irc/kiwix_hue_invert3.png | 19:23 |
| fenn | oh right, i was thinking a double negative | 19:23 |
| fenn | value invert makes more sense | 19:24 |
| kanzure | fenn, so the microbubble-based increase of blood oxygen would involve the use of ultrasound to break the bubbles? | 19:24 |
| fenn | xcalib -i -a makes it hue inverted :P | 19:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: no you'd just stuff liquid fluorocarbon in the microbubbles instead of gaseous fluorocarbon | 19:25 |
| xentrac | bash: xcalib: command not found | 19:25 |
| fenn | presumably it dissolves more oxygen per unit volume than blood, but i don't really know | 19:25 |
| xentrac | I'd be surprised | 19:26 |
| kanzure | when would the microbubbles break? | 19:26 |
| fenn | never! | 19:26 |
| kanzure | clearly i don't understand | 19:26 |
| fenn | they are just artificial oxygen transport vesicles | 19:26 |
| kanzure | and why did you have to envoke freitasian respirocytes? | 19:27 |
| fenn | oxygen diffuses into and out of the vesicles | 19:27 |
| fenn | uh, eudoxia did | 19:27 |
| kanzure | so confusion | 19:27 |
| fenn | iirc freitas was talking about active systems that pump oxygen in and out | 19:27 |
| fenn | 1000 atm internal pressure | 19:28 |
| kanzure | i thought his respirocytes idea was just molecular nanotech floating around in your body doing uh, stuff | 19:28 |
| kanzure | i don't remember anything about a pressurized oxygen container? | 19:29 |
| fenn | yes, where stuff = compressed oxygen | 19:29 |
| kanzure | what wavelength are you operating on | 19:29 |
| fenn | dude, google "respirocyte" | 19:29 |
| kanzure | .g respirocyte | 19:29 |
| yoleaux | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirocyte | 19:29 |
| kanzure | fuck | 19:29 |
| kanzure | hm, so, i think bubbles are more practical than making a micrometer-sized red blood cell replacement | 19:30 |
| fenn | well they exist already, that's a plus | 19:31 |
| kanzure | "Muscle fatigue results from inadequate supply of oxygen to the muscles during intense exercise, leading to inefficient lactic acid fermentation. If respirocytes could increase the supply of oxygen despite exercise, it should be possible to reduce muscle fatigue, increasing a person's endurance." if that was true, you would be able to do EPO straight into the muscles in lab testing | 19:31 |
| fenn | actually muscle fatigue is mostly due to overheating | 19:31 |
| kanzure | or rather, i should say, people would have done said weird direct-line-of-EPO study | 19:31 |
| kanzure | (maybe they have) | 19:31 |
| fenn | huh? i dont know what you're trying to say | 19:32 |
| kanzure | nada | 19:32 |
| kanzure | how many cells are not immediately served by blood? | 19:32 |
| fenn | corneal cells, bone cells, skin cells, um.. not many | 19:32 |
| kanzure | so each neuron has direct access to blood? | 19:33 |
| fenn | depends what you mean by "direct" | 19:33 |
| fenn | shredding the BBB to get more oxygen seems like a bad idea | 19:34 |
| kanzure | nah, i mean, where is the blood: http://www.nia.nih.gov/sites/default/files/nia-ad-image04_large.jpg | 19:35 |
| fenn | you know better than that kanzure | 19:36 |
| kanzure | aroo? | 19:36 |
| fenn | there's no space between neurons | 19:36 |
| fenn | also they don't emit a yellow glow | 19:37 |
| kanzure | okay fine, if there's no space then there's no space for bloodz | 19:37 |
| fenn | right, and there's no space for bubbles either | 19:37 |
| kanzure | then how do neurons get anything | 19:38 |
| fenn | diffusion | 19:38 |
| kanzure | bubbles can't be diffused? | 19:38 |
| fenn | it's not just neurons; blood cells don't cross the endothelium. all cells get their oxygen by diffusion | 19:38 |
| fenn | if a gas is diffusing through a liquid, it's dissolved and thus not a bubble | 19:39 |
| kanzure | what about this one? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0361923014000252 they were lying and the bubbles really didn't reach neurons? | 19:39 |
| gradstudentbot | Whatever, I'm really dating school anyway. | 19:40 |
| fenn | in this case the bubbles are full of GDNF, a protein, probably suspended in water | 19:41 |
| fenn | either your bubbles are impermeable, or they are large, or they dissolve almost instantly | 19:41 |
| fenn | "release GDNF in a sustained manner after low frequency ultrasound stimulation" | 19:42 |
| fenn | this says nothing about bubbles crossing the BBB | 19:43 |
| kanzure | ah interesting | 19:43 |
| fenn | also i thought they used ultrasound to locally disrupt the BBB | 19:43 |
| kanzure | that was another one | 19:43 |
| fenn | otherwise GDNF wouldn't get through either | 19:43 |
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| kanzure | well, still might have some opportunity for neuron-specific targetting | 19:49 |
| fenn | are you on a nanoparticle kick or something? | 19:50 |
| kanzure | nope | 19:50 |
| kanzure | ultrasound kick | 19:50 |
| kanzure | i didn't know about ultrasound-specific contrast agents | 19:51 |
| kanzure | which is nice for imaging, but other possible payloads might be possible | 19:52 |
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| fenn | .tell ebowden http://orion.bme.columbia.edu/ueil/documents/article/2011-choi-bbb-pulses-microbubbles.pdf | 19:54 |
| yoleaux | fenn: I'll pass your message to ebowden. | 19:54 |
| fenn | kanzure: not just possible, but demonstrated | 19:55 |
| kanzure | transcranial ultrasound stimulation might benefit from a related concept | 19:55 |
| kanzure | or direct current or magnetic stimulation | 19:55 |
| fenn | yo dawg i heard you liked contrast agents so we put a contrast agent in your contrast agent so you can contrast your agents while you age | 19:55 |
| fenn | it would be cool if you could make the bubbles respond to only a specific frequency | 19:56 |
| kanzure | maybe it varies by diameter of bubble | 19:57 |
| kanzure | or bubble material (the other paper was using microspheres of some plastic crap?) | 19:57 |
| fenn | the medium is compressible so i think sub-wavelength bubbles will compress | 19:57 |
| fenn | s/compress/respond/ | 19:58 |
| fenn | you'd need something like a long tube coiled up into a spiral | 19:59 |
| fenn | when it resonates, the end caps/plugs fall out and drugs are released. yeah that's the ticket | 19:59 |
| kanzure | and why would they have not fallen out sooner? | 20:00 |
| fenn | because they're shoved in really tight | 20:00 |
| fenn | also see the difference between "snap fit" (restoring force) and "press fit" (restraining force) | 20:01 |
| fenn | snap fit limits by amplitude threshold, press fit limits by integral | 20:01 |
| fenn | okay so you take a tupperware container, put your stash of drugs in it, set it in front of the shrink ray... | 20:02 |
| kanzure | i don't know if tupperware is press or snap fit | 20:03 |
| fenn | some people just do bong rips | 20:03 |
| fenn | the original rubbermaid "tupperware" brand was press fit, but most modern stuff is snap fit | 20:03 |
| entelechios | snap fit is the shit | 20:04 |
| fenn | 'The formerly patented "burping seal" is a famous aspect of Tupperware, which distinguished it from competitors.' | 20:04 |
| kanzure | microbubbles and microspheres are easier to manufacture than "a really tiny coiled up tube with medicine/payloads inside and also a really well snap fitting endcap" | 20:05 |
| fenn | ok how about just flattened ends that leak when stimulated | 20:05 |
| fenn | snap fit has a higher ... contrast ratio | 20:06 |
| kanzure | what was wrong with spheres/bubbles though? | 20:06 |
| fenn | they all respond to every frequency | 20:07 |
| kanzure | with focused ultrasound you can just point to the place that you want, and since it's a phased array you only get the effect at a certain location | 20:07 |
| kanzure | i guess non-phased-array would be preferable if at all possible | 20:07 |
| kanzure | since it's "simpler" from a mechanical perspective | 20:07 |
| fenn | it's the difference between a black and white TV and a color TV | 20:07 |
| fenn | bubbles vs tubes i mean | 20:08 |
| xentrac | well, and you can probably get higher gain, kanzure | 20:08 |
| fenn | definitely want to do phased array | 20:08 |
| xentrac | (with a parabolic reflector, say) | 20:08 |
| fenn | you know what's simple? a hammer and a brick | 20:09 |
| fenn | put the brick on your head, have someone hit it with a hammer | 20:09 |
| fenn | instant ultrasound | 20:09 |
| kanzure | i am sure a monk can cure your brain cancer with a hammer and 100 years of practice | 20:09 |
| xentrac | I was just playing a monk | 20:09 |
| xentrac | I got impatient and a mummy and some killer bees cured me in Minetown | 20:09 |
| fenn | it's a matter of knowing exactly _where_ to hit it with the tiny hammer | 20:09 |
| xentrac | they cured Minetown of me | 20:10 |
| kanzure | one of those papers had microspheres that were coated with a specific ligand/something to target particular cells | 20:10 |
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| fenn | that's the part i don't get, microspheres are too big to fit in between cells | 20:11 |
| kanzure | well how big is a virus capsid | 20:11 |
| fenn | unless you meant nanoparticles | 20:11 |
| fenn | 10-100 nm | 20:11 |
| kanzure | oh right, virus capids are like 10-50 nm | 20:11 |
| kanzure | blah | 20:11 |
| fenn | actually i think the smallest is polio at around 20nm | 20:11 |
| fenn | .wa diameter of polio | 20:12 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 20:12 |
| kanzure | wolfram doesn't believe in biology | 20:12 |
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| fenn | The viral particle is about 30 nanometres in diameter with icosahedral symmetry. | 20:12 |
| fenn | i almost bought a water filter that can screen out viruses | 20:13 |
| fenn | i settled for "all bacteria and protozoa" instead | 20:13 |
| fenn | it gets most viruses too | 20:13 |
| fenn | really everyone on earth should have one of these | 20:14 |
| kanzure | wouldn't it be better to have more effective immunity | 20:14 |
| kanzure | i know eric hanson would say yes | 20:15 |
| kanzure | trapped in adobe forever | 20:15 |
| kanzure | wait, eric hunting | 20:15 |
| kanzure | arggghh fucking namespaces | 20:15 |
| fenn | $20 for infinitely reusable portable mechanical filter http://sawyer.com/products/type/water-filtration/ | 20:16 |
| fenn | is eric hanson a person? | 20:17 |
| kanzure | it's a jrayhawk person | 20:17 |
| gradstudentbot | So, I'll let you have my reagents when I'm done with my project. | 20:17 |
| fenn | the picture's misleading; the sawyer mini is about 2.5 inches long and 1 inch around | 20:19 |
| fenn | diameter | 20:19 |
| fenn | .wa diameter of a sawyer water filter | 20:19 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 20:19 |
| fenn | useless! | 20:20 |
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| fenn | .wa diameter of dialysis tubing | 20:20 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 20:20 |
| fenn | .wa zero | 20:20 |
| yoleaux | 0: Number name: zero; Number line: http://is.gd/rDUeWu; Binary form: 0₂; Residues modulo small integers: m: 2: 3: 4: 5: 6: 7: 8: 9; 0 mod m: 0: 0: 0: 0: 0: 0: 0: 0; Compass direction: 0° corresponds to north | 20:20 |
| xentrac | .wa diameter of fenn | 20:20 |
| yoleaux | xentrac: Sorry, no result! | 20:20 |
| fenn | binary zero is different from regular zero? | 20:20 |
| xentrac | nope | 20:21 |
| kanzure | 0 base 2, i assume | 20:21 |
| fenn | kanzure: i think MCS is more related to migraine triggers than the immune system, but who kows | 20:22 |
| kanzure | mcs? | 20:23 |
| fenn | Multiple chemical sensitivity is a chronic medical condition characterized by symptoms that the affected person attributes to low-level chemical exposure. Commonly accused substances include smoke, pesticides, plastics, synthetic fabrics, scented products, petroleum products, and paint fumes. Symptoms are often vague and non-specific, such as nausea, fatigue, dizziness and headaches, but also | 20:23 |
| fenn | commonly include inflammation of skin, joints, gastrointestinal tract and airways | 20:23 |
| kanzure | gah, acronyms | 20:23 |
| fenn | namespaces, acronyms, semantics, what's left? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | people. they must be deleted. | 20:24 |
| fenn | i would like a fully denotated language, but Resource Description Framework is hard to read | 20:25 |
| kanzure | i know what multiple chemical sensitivity is, but not that you meant it when you said mcs | 20:25 |
| kanzure | my contextulization gland hasn't been ultrasonically fondled today | 20:25 |
| fenn | it was for the benefit of our lurkers | 20:26 |
| * fenn gestures grandly at the darkness | 20:27 | |
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| fenn | this certainly sounds like an immune reaction though: "runny nose, itchy eyes, headache, scratchy throat, ear ache, scalp pain, mental confusion or sleepiness, palpitations of the heart, upset stomach, nausea and/or diarrhea, abdominal cramping, aching joints" | 20:29 |
| cluckj | definitely something going on there | 20:30 |
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| kanzure | i dunno about "mental confusion" as an immune symptom | 20:30 |
| cluckj | I dunno, I get pretty wacky during allergy season if I don't take anti-histamines | 20:31 |
| fenn | or even if you do | 20:31 |
| fenn | histamine is pretty similar to serotonin | 20:32 |
| kanzure | a pill to solve confusion would be nice | 20:32 |
| fenn | it's called modafinil? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | i was being cheeky, i mean the more general type of confusion where ideas don't make sense because the ideas are stupid/bad | 20:33 |
| delinquentme | what was with the pill claimed to allow adults to learn at kid-level plasticity? | 20:33 |
| cluckj | pretty similar like...how? | 20:33 |
| kanzure | the way to get rid of bad ideas isn't to take a pill, it's to stop talking to morons | 20:33 |
| fenn | iirc one of the problems with amphetamine use by fighter pilots is they have poor judgement, snap to quick decisions inappropriately | 20:33 |
| kanzure | what dosages do fighter pilots take | 20:33 |
| kanzure | "nother study of fighter pilots showed that modafinil given in three divided 100 mg doses sustained the flight control accuracy of sleep-deprived F-117 pilots to within about 27 percent of baseline levels for 37 hours, without any considerable side effects.[78] In an 88-hour sleep loss study of simulated military grounds operations, 400 mg/day doses were mildly helpful at maintaining alertness and performance of subjects compared to placebo, ... | 20:34 |
| kanzure | ... but the researchers concluded that this dose was not high enough to compensate for most of the effects of complete sleep loss.[79]" | 20:34 |
| fenn | cluckj: serotonin is histamine glommed onto the side of a phenol | 20:34 |
| ParahSailin | i think a lot of that is innate personality traits of people selected to be pilots | 20:34 |
| kanzure | "have regularly been given amphetamines to fly longer hours. ... they are given Dexedrine in 10 mg doses," air force spokeswoman" | 20:35 |
| kanzure | that's a pretty low dose, but i think most fighter jet pilots are pretty tiny anyway? | 20:35 |
| fenn | oh it has another nitrogen, hm. whatever | 20:35 |
| cluckj | :P | 20:35 |
| ParahSailin | tryptophan is the one you are thinking of | 20:36 |
| fenn | we were talking about histamine | 20:36 |
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| cluckj | tryptophan is more similar to serotonin | 20:37 |
| fenn | Histamine is released as a neurotransmitter. The cell bodies of histamine neurons are found in the posterior hypothalamus, in the tuberomammillary nuclei. From here, these neurons project throughout the brain, including to the cortex, through the medial forebrain bundle. Histamine neurons increase wakefulness and prevent sleep. | 20:37 |
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| kanzure | tuberomammillary, you can't make these up (oh wait) | 20:37 |
| fenn | don't get me started | 20:37 |
| fenn | you'd think they would make an antihistamine that can't cross the blood brain barrier | 20:38 |
| cluckj | oh serotonin is derived from tryptophan | 20:38 |
| cluckj | neat | 20:39 |
| fenn | print out a bunch of bio molecule structures and you start to see how they fit into a few families | 20:40 |
| fenn | it would be cool to have a set of coffee mugs with the structure on one side and the name on the other, or in thermochromic ink maybe | 20:41 |
| fenn | one mug per molecule | 20:41 |
| kanzure | thinking of taking up a new habit? | 20:41 |
| kanzure | a very elaborate habit | 20:41 |
| fenn | making champagne pyramids that accurately represent metabolism? | 20:42 |
| fenn | i don't tolerate caffeine very well | 20:42 |
| cluckj | lol | 20:42 |
| fenn | interesting how many antipsychotic drugs are in the "list of antihistamines" | 20:45 |
| fenn | H3-antagonists have a stimulant and nootropic effect, and are being investigated for the treatment of conditions such as ADHD, Alzheimer's disease, and schizophrenia, whereas H4-antagonists appear to have an immunomodulatory role and are being investigated as anti-inflammatory and analgesic drugs. | 20:47 |
| cluckj | sweet | 20:48 |
| kanzure | fenn, approximately how annoying is it to build ultrasound transducer phased array parabolic reflector stuff | 20:49 |
| fenn | i think you just get a disk of piezo material, laminate it on a piece of metal, and cut it into squares | 20:50 |
| fenn | phased array and parabolic reflectors are completely different | 20:50 |
| fenn | the tricky part is the electronics, since a lot of piezo materials need high voltage and precise timing to function | 20:51 |
| cluckj | are you trying to melt someone's brain at a distance? | 20:51 |
| fenn | yes | 20:51 |
| kanzure | for some value of 'melt' | 20:51 |
| gradstudentbot | I think I just cured cancer. Wow. | 20:51 |
| fenn | in the buttery goodness sense of melt | 20:51 |
| kanzure | <3 that bot | 20:52 |
| ParahSailin | and then you put the freedom virus in? | 20:52 |
| cluckj | same | 20:52 |
| fenn | ParahSailin: is the freedom virus a real thing (ostensibly) or is it just a rhetorical device? | 20:52 |
| cluckj | low values of melt, or high values of melt? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | cluckj: low values of melt is just stimulation | 20:53 |
| kanzure | cluckj: like reaching into a brain and flipping some neurons on | 20:53 |
| cluckj | oh, so pretty low :) | 20:53 |
| kanzure | high values of melt is brain damage and tumor excision | 20:53 |
| fenn | there seems to be some idea to infect their computers with circumvention technologies | 20:54 |
| kanzure | i think he wants a biological virus | 20:54 |
| fenn | "i wasn't downloading porn, it was the freedom virus!" | 20:54 |
| gradstudentbot | I'll need to pull an all-nighter. | 20:56 |
| ParahSailin | http://www.state.gov/j/drl/p/224863.htm | 20:56 |
| kanzure | .title | 20:57 |
| yoleaux | Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Request for Proposals: Programs for North Korea | 20:57 |
| fenn | ParahSailin: i don't see anything unusual on that page | 20:58 |
| kanzure | source of money | 20:58 |
| kanzure | i guess? | 20:58 |
| fenn | should i submit a proposal to write the Freedom Computer Virus? | 20:58 |
| ParahSailin | well the idea was to make a biological virus | 20:59 |
| fenn | i just dont get how that would work | 20:59 |
| ParahSailin | it works by tricking the state dept into financing a shopping spree | 20:59 |
| fenn | but they already do that | 21:00 |
| cluckj | the virus acts on the sympathetic nervous system and makes you crave apple pie and baseball | 21:00 |
| fenn | their people are starving because all the money goes to basketball souveniers or something | 21:00 |
| kanzure | well now they can be free and starving | 21:00 |
| kanzure | 'merica | 21:00 |
| fenn | why can't we have a cool hermit kingdom that just pirates everything from the West | 21:02 |
| fenn | i guess that's russia, nevermind | 21:03 |
| cluckj | hah | 21:05 |
| kanzure | john griessen was interested in building the equipment but he wanted like $100k and i snored off | 21:07 |
| fenn | okay well a phased array is just an array of transducers | 21:07 |
| fenn | so buy some transducers and wire them up | 21:07 |
| fenn | they just need to be the right frequency range | 21:08 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/Image-guided%20256-element%20phased%20array%20focused%20ultrasound%20surgery%20-%202008.pdf | 21:08 |
| fenn | since it's "only" in the megahertz you don't need to worry so much aboutu wiring | 21:08 |
| kanzure | hrm which paper had the schematic | 21:09 |
| fenn | spherical is more complicated and i dont really see the point | 21:09 |
| fenn | keep the complexity in math and software | 21:09 |
| fenn | i think the pentium computer was designed to run phased array radar, so that's the amount of horsepower you're talking about | 21:11 |
| kanzure | this seems to indicate the reason for spherical arrays is for "electronic focusing and beam steering in a wider range of 3d volume" http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/High-intensity%20focused%20ultrasound%20with%20large%20scale%20spherical%20phased%20array%20for%20the%20ablation%20of%20deep%20tumors%20-%202009.pdf | 21:12 |
| fenn | maybe it has less diffraction because you're dealing with a roughly spherical skull | 21:13 |
| kanzure | hah their skin-fat-vein model http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/A%20portable%20high-intensity%20focused%20ultrasound%20device%20for%20noninvasive%20venous%20ablation%20-%202009.pdf | 21:18 |
| kanzure | figure 4 | 21:18 |
| kanzure | "we made stuff vibrate" | 21:19 |
| kanzure | aha here's the one with schematics of anything, page 551 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/Driving%20circuitry%20for%20focused%20ultrasound%20noninvasive%20surgery%20and%20drug%20delivery%20applications%20-%20Hynynen%20-%202011.pdf | 21:21 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, you said you liked schoolbus? Feels like a piece of crap | 21:23 |
| delinquentme | also phantomjs is crap w async | 21:24 |
| fenn | "Phased array optics is a technology that will produce three dimensional views of objects and scenery using only two dimensional displays. Display systems based on this technology-- optical phased arrays --will behave quite literally as windows onto whatever scenery we can imagine." | 21:24 |
| delinquentme | It seems totally illogical to make a web automation tool which doesn't work with async at a very simple level | 21:24 |
| kanzure | i don't think i've actually used schoolbus | 21:24 |
| kanzure | phantomjs is just a javascript wrapper around webkit | 21:24 |
| kanzure | like this is a python wrapper around webkitgtk+ https://gist.github.com/kanzure/6581415 | 21:24 |
| delinquentme | yeah its been two years since its been updated | 21:25 |
| kanzure | because phantomjs is using qtwebkit from an old release of qt which is also using an old release of webkit | 21:25 |
| kanzure | instead you can just skip all that stuff and go straight to the source (webkit) | 21:25 |
| kanzure | (or blink, if you want) | 21:25 |
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| fenn | woah. "The sources in a phased array must radiate coherently. That is, they must be able to interfere with each other. The easiest way to achieve this is to illuminate the back of the array with light from a single laser." then you can simply use an LCD as a phase modulator | 21:28 |
| fenn | wait really? | 21:28 |
| fenn | kanzure that's another thing to consider for your melt-o-tron, just using a single ultrasound source and an array of phase modulators | 21:29 |
| kanzure | i enjoy how easy this is to test (at least hypothetically?)- just slabs of meat that you point things at | 21:29 |
| fenn | please don't kill yourself | 21:30 |
| kanzure | i mean meat that isn't me | 21:30 |
| fenn | or other humans | 21:30 |
| delinquentme | giving this a try https://github.com/scrapy/scrapy | 21:30 |
| gradstudentbot | Oh man, that's a great scrabble word. I got to write that down. | 21:30 |
| fenn | i used to talk to a guy in #emc working on a high voltage piezo generator for paint spray bots. basically it was an ultrasonic flute (helmholtz resonator) that was aimed at the PZT disk. he could set things on fire from across the shop with ultrasonic energy from a 20 psi air stream | 21:31 |
| kanzure | your friends are wizards | 21:32 |
| fenn | that guy was definitely a wizard | 21:32 |
| cluckj | that's awesome | 21:34 |
| fenn | his big claim to fame was designing the anti-fog mirror heaters on the BMW | 21:34 |
| fenn | i can't recall ever wanting heated mirrors | 21:35 |
| kanzure | fire summoning is better | 21:35 |
| cluckj | yeah it is | 21:35 |
| fenn | anyway, ultrasound propagates in unexpected ways | 21:36 |
| fenn | http://web.archive.org/web/20021024093113/http://www.alltel.net/~leswatts/shop.html | 21:39 |
| kanzure | wasn't there something about using an LCD as a phase modulator for photolithography reasons | 21:43 |
| kanzure | something about gene_hacker | 21:43 |
| fenn | kanzure: now that i think about it, les watts is pretty much just an older version of les filip | 21:44 |
| kanzure | "gasp! people are similar?" | 21:45 |
| kanzure | makes sense, you probably collapse into the same personality type if you spend enough time around that much concrete | 21:46 |
| fenn | i guess once you have a cnc router you have to make furniture | 21:46 |
| kanzure | otherwise a mob comes after you, an angry mob | 21:47 |
| fenn | the CNC protection agency | 21:47 |
| kanzure | hrm well. i should probably build this. | 21:47 |
| fenn | oddly the query "acoustic phase modulator" doesn't return what i want | 21:48 |
| fenn | it's probably easier to just use an array of piezo emitters | 21:50 |
| kanzure | "This thesis presents an acoustic phased array system utilizing piezoelectric transducers. The system is capable of operating at arbitrary frequencies into the low megahertz range, with a trade-off between phase accuracy and operational frequency. A maximum of sixteen elements can be introduced to the array and all elements are capable of operating at arbitrary phases relative to each other. Waveform generation is done in MATLAB and LabVIEW ... | 21:51 |
| kanzure | ... is used to interface between a host PC issuing commands and the array itself. Results from tests run using a four element array to demonstrate beam steering and focusing at 11 kHz are included and discussed." | 21:51 |
| kanzure | haha matlab/labview | 21:51 |
| kanzure | wonderful | 21:51 |
| fenn | i was thinking something like a liquid crystal that changed its index of refraction or polarity or something (but sound isn't polarized so meh) | 21:51 |
| fenn | acoustic waves traveling in solids and gels can have a directional component | 21:52 |
| fenn | when was that thesis written | 21:54 |
| Viper168 | is paperbot working? dunno how to use it, want to get http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8555378 | 21:55 |
| fenn | woah i just realized that you could aim battle lasers with liquid crystal phase modulators | 21:55 |
| kanzure | thesis was written in 1820 | 21:55 |
| kanzure | what counts as a battle laser | 21:55 |
| kanzure | Viper168: that page does not have a pdf | 21:55 |
| Viper168 | ah boo | 21:55 |
| fenn | if it has spiky evil fins it's a battle laser | 21:55 |
| jrayhawk | paperbot: http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/0006-3223(94)00378-5/pdf | 21:56 |
| paperbot | XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 51, in _go) | 21:56 |
| jrayhawk | exciting | 21:56 |
| kanzure | hrmph | 21:56 |
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| fenn | .title http://www.hafniumisomer.org/cqeseg3.htm well this is interesting | 22:01 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 22:01 |
| fenn | come on yoleaux | 22:01 |
| fenn | .title | 22:01 |
| yoleaux | Gamma-ray laser | 22:01 |
| fenn | bah | 22:01 |
| kanzure | what | 22:01 |
| fenn | tldr theoretically you can cause nuclear decays to happen non-randomly by shooting stuff with a gamma ray laser | 22:02 |
| fenn | this has implications for spacecraft and power generation of all sorts | 22:03 |
| fenn | and nuclear hand grenades | 22:03 |
| fenn | see, gamma ray lasers don't work because we don't really have mirrors that can reflect gamma rays. also they self destruct instantly | 22:08 |
| fenn | but a phase modulator could point the laser where you want it to go | 22:08 |
| fenn | "spatial light modulator" is the magic keyword | 22:09 |
| fenn | i wonder if this is any different from a digital hologram | 22:14 |
| kanzure | p. sure we've talked about spatial light modulators before, hang on a sec while i cross reference it against the version of the web in my head | 22:15 |
| fenn | a DLP chip is also called a spatial light modulator, but it wouldn't do phase modulation | 22:15 |
| fenn | also it's digital and you'd want analog | 22:16 |
| fenn | so the thing i want modulates both spatial and phase | 22:16 |
| kanzure | 21:08 < gene_hacker> also have you looked into building a maskless microstereolithography machine? | 22:17 |
| fenn | fortunately that thing happens to be exactly what's in every computer monitor | 22:17 |
| kanzure | 21:09 < gene_hacker> or DLP projector hooked up to a microscope, pointing at a vat of photopolymer | 22:17 |
| kanzure | 21:21 < gene_hacker> what can go wrong? | 22:17 |
| kanzure | hrmm where is it. | 22:17 |
| fenn | where is what | 22:17 |
| kanzure | 22:28 < nmz787> http://nathanmccorkle.com/pdf/A%20maskless%20photolithographic%20prototyping%20system%20using%20a%20low-cost%20consumer%20projector%20and%20a%20microscope.pdf | 22:18 |
| kanzure | well, i remember genehacker or nmz787 was ranting about using an LCD as a phase modulator in here | 22:18 |
| fenn | oh, yeah basically a micro 3d printer | 22:18 |
| kanzure | and since genehacker and nmz787 are basically the same person in my head, it is making my search harder | 22:18 |
| fenn | LCD != DLP | 22:18 |
| kanzure | yes but he gave a link once to an LCD setup | 22:18 |
| fenn | also 404 nmz787 | 22:18 |
| kanzure | huh? | 22:18 |
| cpopell`sleep | http://www.miicraft.com/ is DLP I believe | 22:19 |
| fenn | lol Book URL: http://adl.serveftp.org-/papers./A%20maskless%20photolithographic%20prototyping%20system%20using%20a%20low-cost%20consumer%20projector%20and%20a%20microscope.pdf | 22:19 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Generation%20of%20laser-induced%20cavitation%20bubbles%20with%20a%20digital%20hologram%20-%20LCD%20-%20spatial%20light%20modulator.pdf | 22:20 |
| kanzure | which book has that url | 22:20 |
| kanzure | and it's over here now: | 22:20 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/A%20maskless%20photolithographic%20prototyping%20system%20using%20a%20low-cost%20consumer%20projector%20and%20a%20microscope.pdf | 22:20 |
| fenn | you also have "Versatile stepper based maskless microlithography using a liquid crystal display for direct write of binary and multilevel microstructures" but i'm too lazy to escape code it | 22:21 |
| kanzure | this is the one i remember genehacker ranting about ("direct write" + "LCD") | 22:21 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Versatile%20stepper%20based%20maskless%20microlithography%20using%20a%20liquid%20crystal%20display%20(LCD)%20for%20direct%20write%20of%20binary%20and%20multilevel%20microstructures%20-%202007%20-%20awesome.pdf | 22:21 |
| kanzure | i see that you're back on my wavelength | 22:21 |
| fenn | i'm going to start viciously substituting underscores for spaces | 22:22 |
| fenn | rawr | 22:22 |
| kanzure | i_can_keep_this_up_all_day | 22:23 |
| kanzure | oh damn wrong direction | 22:23 |
| fenn | for filenames i mean | 22:23 |
| kanzure | i like how the diagram has the word "computer" pointing at the monitor | 22:23 |
| kanzure | i don't think that system is particularly portable | 22:24 |
| fenn | journal of clever cheap hacks | 22:24 |
| gradstudentbot | I did so much qPCR today. | 22:25 |
| fenn | seems like a flashbulb would be better than using a lamp and a shutter and a lcd | 22:27 |
| fenn | i'm pretty sure the fancy pants scientific catalog "liquid crystal spatial light modulator" is just a LCD panel with the polarizers removed | 22:29 |
| fenn | also how come they dont use this in fabs to do prototype runs? | 22:30 |
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| fenn | there was something called a "scanner" where a linear array of lasers is moved across a substrate, changing the bit pattern as it goes... this solves half of the alignment problem (you can get very long continuous images) | 22:37 |
| fenn | or s/laser/LCD/ | 22:37 |
| fenn | with a tilted anamorphic prism you might be able to simulate a wide linear array with a square LCD panel | 22:38 |
| fenn | with a 640x480 panel, you have 307200 pixels; it seems such a shame to throw away 99.8% of them | 22:45 |
| fenn | there's gotta be some way to make a 307200xInfinite image | 22:47 |
| kanzure | how did we get to LCDs? | 22:48 |
| fenn | phase modulation array | 22:49 |
| fenn | i got excited about the possibility of true 3D displays | 22:49 |
| fenn | reading this http://www.phased-array.com/1996-Book-Chapter.html | 22:50 |
| kanzure | what a convenient domain | 22:50 |
| kanzure | don't we know brian wowk from somewhere else | 22:50 |
| kanzure | via: michael anissimov | 22:50 |
| fenn | brian g. wowk a medical physicist and cryobiologist known for the discovery and development of synthetic molecules that mimic the activity of natural antifreeze proteins in cryopreservation applications | 22:51 |
| kanzure | "Mike Darwin & Brian Wowk: Cryonics: Reaching For Tomorrow" | 22:51 |
| gradstudentbot | That's definitely a Cell paper. | 22:51 |
| fenn | how do i give gradstudentbot a botsnack | 22:52 |
| gradstudentbot | Don't phage me, bro. | 22:52 |
| kanzure | not implemented | 22:52 |
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| fenn | "If the person who was “duplicated” believed before duplication that duplication constitutes survival of the self, then, by definition, the duplicated entity will insist vociferously that indeed they did survive. This has ethical implications." | 22:54 |
| fenn | "Conversely, | 22:55 |
| fenn | an entity derived from a person who did not believe in this form of survival might be quite unhappy to be told that they were the product of a destructive scan of somebody. This too has ethical implications." | 22:55 |
| kanzure | who cares, their concept of selfhood is probably broken or wrong | 22:55 |
| kanzure | (ethics be damned) | 22:55 |
| fenn | that's basically what he was saying in the rest of the article | 22:56 |
| fenn | i think it's generally poor form to torture sentient constructs | 22:57 |
| kanzure | because non-sentient torture is totally cool? | 22:57 |
| fenn | i can't square this unambiguously with my belief in the freedom of thought (i.e. you should be allowed to think up an imaginary entity and torture them if you wish) | 22:58 |
| fenn | iain banks really missed the ball on this when writing "surface detail" | 22:58 |
| kanzure | by "think up" do you mean "make" or do you mean "an extremely lossy rendering in my head that only functions when i mentally run it in my head" | 22:59 |
| fenn | if "head" is a planet sized chunk of computronium, i don't really see the difference | 23:00 |
| kanzure | yawn last link is better | 23:00 |
| gradstudentbot | So, people always joke about that, but I feel like weaving baskets underwater would not be the easiest thing in the world. | 23:01 |
| fenn | so the problem with 3d displays is you have the usual spatial/temporal/angular resolution tradeoff | 23:04 |
| fenn | a 2d display will generally be N times cheaper/higher resolution than a 3d display, where N is the ratio of depth to screen diagonal | 23:05 |
| fenn | this is pretty clear when you understand how a plenoptic camera works | 23:07 |
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| fenn | the thing is, we don't really use the temporal resolution of our displays very well | 23:07 |
| fenn | if something is showing a static image, it doesn't need to be updating constantly | 23:08 |
| fenn | so maybe it's possible to rapidly update the phase angle of the laser that's illuminating your spatial phase modulator, and multiplex some extra spatial/angular resolution in there | 23:09 |
| fenn | old-school interlacing is the same idea, trading temporal for spatial resolution | 23:10 |
| fenn | i'm going to read this in the future and have no idea what i was saying | 23:10 |
| fenn | oh i forgot bitdepth.. spatial/temporal/angular/intensity (and probably also polarization and spectral, but humans cant see those) | 23:12 |
| fenn | so my e-ink display has high resolution grayscale mostly-static-image, but i can hack it to do 15fps black and white video | 23:13 |
| fenn | "consider a building covered on all sides by a high power phased array. By day it could produce an image of a landscape contiguous with its surroundings, thereby rendering itself effectively invisible." | 23:36 |
| fenn | "Matching the phase of sources in a phased array has interesting consequences. The sources will interfere constructively, depositing their entire output energy to a very small point (not a very healthy place to be)" | 23:38 |
| fenn | "Our camouflage, decorative lighting system is now a long-range missile defense system, or directional transmitter of interstellar range." | 23:38 |
| fenn | you could do something similar with a plenoptic aremac/camera pair (and a prism/splitter to cram everything into the same light path) then you can route light field representations around electronically | 23:43 |
| fenn | for a camouflage suit you want high bit depth and angular resolution; spatial resolution doesn't matter so much because ideally you wouldn't be standing close to them. so basically you're shifting the optic focusing plane to the fourier angle plane (this is how jellyfish see) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_spectrum_method | 23:46 |
| fenn | i think the angle is the imaginary component | 23:47 |
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| JayDugger | Building phased array optics, fenn? | 23:53 |
| JayDugger | That sounds like quote from Josh Hall, or perhaps Wil McCarthy. | 23:53 |
| fenn | maybe there's a way to stack up LCD panels to get more total information out of a volume | 23:55 |
| fenn | the bottom panel could simulate any arbitrary light source | 23:58 |
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| fenn | and the top panel could simulate any arbitrary transmittance | 23:59 |
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