| --- Log opened Wed Apr 30 00:00:02 2014 | ||
| --- Day changed Wed Apr 30 2014 | ||
| fenn | for measuring a bunch of stuff? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| @kanzure | for not soldering 10000 wires | 00:00 |
| @kanzure | making the pcb do the work seems like a good idea | 00:00 |
| fenn | uh. multiplexing just means taking a bunch of channels and combining them into a smaller number of channels | 00:00 |
| @kanzure | this is just a routing/layout problem | 00:01 |
| fenn | what's wrong with row/column | 00:02 |
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| @kanzure | the real one or their fake one? | 00:02 |
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| fenn | hm. actually now that i think about it, you'd only get 1/row fraction of the analog signal per pixel | 00:03 |
| fenn | you really want one adc per pixel | 00:03 |
| @kanzure | here's someone doing "receive mode" multiplexing: http://transducers.bme.duke.edu/pubs/uffc_2004_216-226.pdf | 00:04 |
| fenn | i havent read the TI stuff yet but they talk about RF-demodulation, and i figure that's the important step | 00:04 |
| fenn | i wish people would name their fucking files something topical | 00:05 |
| @kanzure | hey i was pretty happy with transducers.bme.duke.edu | 00:06 |
| fenn | there's so many <conference acronym>_<year>_<random numbers>_<grad student last name>.pdf | 00:07 |
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| @kanzure | aren't librarians supposed to help with this stuff | 00:08 |
| fenn | seems like you'd want to choose your receiver elements as either gaussians or fresnel rings | 00:10 |
| fenn | not randomly placed blocks | 00:10 |
| fenn | various eigenfunctions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wavepanel.png | 00:12 |
| fenn | "If the light from two point sources overlaps, the interference pattern maps out the way in which the phase difference between the two waves varies in space. This depends on the wavelength and on the separation of the point sources. The figure to the right shows interference between two spherical waves. The wavelength increases from top to bottom, and the distance between the sources increases | 00:13 |
| fenn | from left to right." | 00:13 |
| fenn | these patterns have the property of focusing on the source of the point source used to generate them, when used as a receiver or transmitter aperture (phase array) | 00:14 |
| fenn | i have no idea what the gain of a bunch of squares thrown together would be | 00:15 |
| fenn | s/gain/radiation pattern/ | 00:15 |
| gradstudentbot | The real reason I wanted to join this lab was because I love to clean glassware. | 00:15 |
| @kanzure | dunno if these are the same diagrams as your eigenfunctions http://acoustics.stanford.edu/khuriyakub/opencms/Downloads/09_Karaman_1.pdf | 00:17 |
| @kanzure | (page 4) | 00:17 |
| fenn | you could also map your channels to discrete cosine functions, or wavelets, or ... | 00:17 |
| fenn | there's a whole field called "compressed sensing" which is about tuning your input aperture to match the features you're trying to detect | 00:18 |
| fenn | you can think about it like, instead of using an array of pixels and then converting to cosine transforms, just build your sensor with discrete cosine transform blocks and it will output JPEG data directly | 00:19 |
| @kanzure | things should be shoved to software-side as much as possible | 00:20 |
| @kanzure | "i have discovered that this instruction set causes the cpu to vibrate at 400 kHz, so all we need to do is.." | 00:20 |
| @kanzure | aha the keyword is "fully sampled" | 00:22 |
| fenn | "things should be shoved to software-side as much as possible" actually no, compressed sensing clearly shows that you can get much better sensor performance by selecing the features you want in hardware | 00:22 |
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| @kanzure | performance in the temporal dimension? meh | 00:23 |
| fenn | performance in signal to noise ratio | 00:23 |
| @kanzure | so instead of just pixels with wires, it should be pixels with asic stuff nearby, and then funnel that data somewhere? | 00:24 |
| fenn | the only we use square pixels is (aside from everything being square) they're easy to address with row/column | 00:24 |
| @kanzure | also because of phasing | 00:24 |
| @kanzure | the annular circular design doesn't allow for phased array stuff becaues of the axial symmetry | 00:24 |
| fenn | no you're misunderstanding, the "select features" is an analog property of the sensor material/shape/configuration | 00:24 |
| fenn | gah irc lag | 00:25 |
| @kanzure | *because | 00:25 |
| fenn | annular is sort of an example of what i mean; it provides good sensitivity to depth at expense of angle resolution | 00:26 |
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| fenn | i think it has zero angular discrimination | 00:26 |
| fenn | the segmented annular stuff can do more angle | 00:27 |
| fenn | i dont really get the karaman paper, the point spread functions have something to do with diffraction? | 00:28 |
| fenn | "the transmit and receieve arrays are _configured_over_ a 16x16 square array" which means they are just using square pixels? | 00:30 |
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| @kanzure | so if there was analog multiplexing would that work for both receive and transmit | 00:34 |
| fenn | probably not because of the power difference | 00:35 |
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| fenn | unless you had an "active" array (transistors built into the pixels) | 00:36 |
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| fenn | let's not go there | 00:36 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm writing that up and it will be submitted soon. | 00:37 |
| gradstudentbot | Do I use a one or two sided t-test for that? | 00:37 |
| fenn | push /sdcard/hplusroadmap_incoming/ | 00:38 |
| fenn | it would be nice if my nook automatically downloaded pdfs referenced here | 00:38 |
| * kanzure feeds paperbot | 00:38 | |
| fenn | it's those damn filenames | 00:39 |
| fenn | but* | 00:39 |
| @kanzure | welp, soldering it is | 00:41 |
| @kanzure | although 8x8 is a lot. why not 4x4. | 00:42 |
| fenn | why not 2x2 | 00:42 |
| @kanzure | fewer elements constraints beamforming or beam steering | 00:42 |
| @kanzure | *constrains | 00:42 |
| fenn | well do you want to study beamforming or how to multiplex lots of analog channels | 00:43 |
| @kanzure | it would be nice if it's not just for imaging, but i could be convinced against this | 00:44 |
| fenn | 2x2 isn't a final product, just for learning | 00:45 |
| fenn | sort of a hello world | 00:45 |
| @kanzure | 1 element is fine for that, since single element transducers seem to be capable of imaging on their own | 00:46 |
| fenn | but 1 element has no angular resolution at all | 00:46 |
| fenn | so you aren't doing anything like beamforming | 00:46 |
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| fenn | 2x2 could even be run from a usb sound card i bet | 00:47 |
| @kanzure | were you the one that told me about cutting a pzt with a knife? | 00:48 |
| fenn | no | 00:48 |
| fenn | pzt is a ceramic, don't you need to score it and break it? | 00:49 |
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| @kanzure | well these papers seem to say something about micromachining and lasering to cut it up, although not completely-through cuts | 00:49 |
| fenn | what does 7.1 surround mean? one input channel and 7 outputs? | 00:50 |
| @kanzure | i forget which lurker is the audiophile | 00:51 |
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| @kanzure | maybe archels, he does lots of multi-channel recording crap i think | 00:51 |
| @kanzure | for squishy neuron reasons | 00:52 |
| fenn | these things only have 2 stereo jacks, how can it have 8 channels | 00:54 |
| fenn | right, anyway | 00:55 |
| fenn | multi-channel ADC's are cheap, i need to learn about this RF demodulation stuff though | 00:55 |
| fenn | "25 micron diamond-dicing blade" uhh.. | 00:59 |
| fenn | i guess you can't etch it | 01:00 |
| fenn | "receive only element located at every eighth element" | 01:03 |
| fenn | so each pixel is dedicated to either transmit or receive | 01:03 |
| fenn | ugh. how do i mirror a site in the wayback machine? | 01:09 |
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| gradstudentbot | Does this look contaminated to you? | 01:11 |
| fenn | wayback2git would be helpful | 01:31 |
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| fenn | xmj: you're learning finnish? | 03:34 |
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| xmj | no | 04:17 |
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| mattybeds | hi | 04:34 |
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| ebowden | Hello. | 04:47 |
| mattybeds | is anyone here actively biohacking ? | 04:47 |
| mattybeds | im an ex computer hacker and im interested in learning a new project. | 04:48 |
| mattybeds | i have one in mind regarding plant root systems as a conduit for conducting electrons. | 04:48 |
| mattybeds | any thoughts on this | 04:48 |
| ebowden | Interested in learning. A good start. | 04:48 |
| ebowden | Electrically conductive plant roots? | 04:49 |
| mattybeds | Well, we all seen the movie avatar when they talk about the plants communicating with each other via roots | 04:49 |
| mattybeds | i was wondering if there is any truth in this. | 04:50 |
| ebowden | Uhhhhhh.... depends what you mean by "truth in this". | 04:51 |
| mattybeds | like the idea that the roots can transfer either energy via conductivity and if this is the case then it could be possible to communicate via electrical impulses. | 04:53 |
| mattybeds | dunno if that makes sense | 04:53 |
| ebowden | I do not believe I have heard any examples of that. | 04:53 |
| mattybeds | http://www.livescience.com/5711-electricity-harvested-trees.html | 04:54 |
| mattybeds | Trees can conduct electricity | 04:54 |
| ebowden | Well, now I have. | 04:55 |
| mattybeds | plants have a tiny magnetic field | 04:55 |
| mattybeds | now its my thinking that if a plant conducts electricity then this would include the root system. | 04:57 |
| mattybeds | and if two plants root system was to touch then possibly they could share energy. | 04:57 |
| ebowden | No reason to say that CAN'T happen. | 04:58 |
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| ebowden | But an exchange of plant hormones seems a more likely way two different plants would communicate. | 04:59 |
| mattybeds | Communication could be on two levels energy transfer and hormones like we use body and verbal language. | 05:00 |
| ebowden | Haven't heard any evidence of plants using electrical communication. | 05:01 |
| mattybeds | How would someone go about test it | 05:02 |
| ebowden | Not sure, I am in no way a qualified botanist or biologist. | 05:03 |
| ebowden | I'd imagine they'd induce and disrupt some electrical signals and see how it affects the plant. | 05:04 |
| ebowden | But I can't really give much more than that. | 05:04 |
| mattybeds | hmmm | 05:04 |
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| mosasaur | I read somewhere damaged plants can give off some scent that warns other plants. | 05:12 |
| mattybeds | So you could say plants have a form of intelligence. | 05:14 |
| mattybeds | i think its an interesting subject | 05:15 |
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| ebowden_ | I suppose you could say it. | 05:26 |
| ebowden_ | But you wouldn't have a lot of evidence. | 05:27 |
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| fenn | mattybeds: ... nevermind | 07:24 |
| fenn | "hi is anyone doing interesting stuff kthxbye" <disconnect> | 07:25 |
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| fenn | plants and bacteria regularly communicate with oligosaccharides and lectins, the "glycocode" which represents plant health and needs, bacterial population and quorum sensing behavior, soil health, and plants can even exchange sugars and water with soil bacteria and with each other | 07:30 |
| fenn | it's never quite clear if the bacteria are "hacking" the plant to do what they want, or if it's a cooperative relationship, or somewhere in between | 07:30 |
| fenn | but definitely groups of plants can communicate through the roots by emitting chemicals. no electrical impulses as far as i know. | 07:31 |
| fenn | cameron's "avatar" was inspired by deep sea vent ecologies, mostly made up of tube worms, which are animals. (he got involved in deep sea exploration after filming "abyss" and "titanic") | 07:32 |
| mosasaur | fenn: Nothing newly interesting but I realized with these ultrasound tweezers activating the cochlea and balance hemispheres, in combination with an oculus rift, one could actually fly like superman or have out of the body experiences without leaving one's chair. Also, I am completely baffled what kind of chips you guys are talking about in the logs. | 07:33 |
| fenn | oh the PZT transducer arrays? just a standard ultrasound material, like a cellphone speaker cut up into tiny pieces | 07:34 |
| fenn | you can cut them in circular patterns, or a square grid, or some other pattern | 07:34 |
| fenn | DMD = digital micromirror device, which is similar in that it's a grid of pixels, but has nothing to do with ultrasound | 07:35 |
| mosasaur | Can it fill a 3d volume, with defined spikes in small areas? | 07:35 |
| fenn | i'm going to go ahead and say yes | 07:36 |
| fenn | there will be artifacts related to pixellation in strange mathematical ways | 07:37 |
| mosasaur | Great. Now we only need to know where to point it. | 07:37 |
| fenn | it's the pointing it that i'm learning about. staring at the huge pile of whitepapers and not reading | 07:38 |
| fenn | not nearly as straightforward as, say, a laser scanner | 07:39 |
| mosasaur | OK. How about having a container that is filled with small balls, or droplets, or whatever, that crack if they're stirred by ultrasound. Maybe there's some glue inside that makes them stick together. Then let the unaffected balls fall away and we have 1) some new 3D printing technique 2) a way to test ultrasound emitters. | 07:42 |
| cluckj | that's already a technique for 3D printing with lasers | 07:43 |
| cluckj | cutting away substrate instead of laying it down | 07:43 |
| mosasaur | btw this might help the with staring problem: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/april/walking-vs-sitting-042414.html?hn | 07:43 |
| mosasaur | cluckj: The idea is to have some kind of 3D sonar pattern, like dolphins can "see" what is inside things. Maybe it is also possible to let those 3D images have influence, like dolphins stunning small prey with their sonar. | 07:46 |
| mosasaur | I don't know of any laser that can harden something from within. | 07:47 |
| cluckj | http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Laser-3D-Printer-Stereolithography-at-Ho/ | 07:48 |
| mosasaur | I don't have time to read all that, but I assume this laser hits the surface of a container with liquid, then a new liquid layer is added etc. That is something completely different? | 07:53 |
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| cluckj | it does | 07:54 |
| fenn | mosasaur: 2 photon absorption can harden inside a volume of liquid | 07:54 |
| cluckj | ^ | 07:55 |
| fenn | and it's much more precise than beam steering | 07:55 |
| fenn | i don't trust anything on instructables | 07:55 |
| cluckj | the instructable was just poc :P | 07:56 |
| gradstudentbot | Hey, let's write a paper about that. | 07:56 |
| mosasaur | Great. I still think this laser would build up the structure point by point instead of hardening the whole image in one go. | 07:57 |
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| cluckj | http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=50989 | 07:58 |
| cluckj | better? | 07:58 |
| fenn | ok so you could cook cornstarch with ultrasound beams and make a jello monster | 07:58 |
| fenn | but i don't really see the point | 07:59 |
| fenn | you can just put your hand in the path of the beam and feel it | 07:59 |
| mosasaur | It's not about the thing itself, though there might be interesting spinoffs, it's about creating a testbed for our cochlea tweezer. | 08:00 |
| fenn | what's with you and cochlea tweezers | 08:01 |
| mosasaur | I just invented them, at least the term. | 08:01 |
| fenn | the cochlea is probably the worst thing in the entire universe to try to manipulate with ultrasound | 08:02 |
| fenn | i mean, it's a resonant acoustic receiver ffs | 08:02 |
| mosasaur | You were present at a great moment in time just now. | 08:02 |
| fenn | i can see the use of a solar powered flashlight, but not a submarine screen door | 08:03 |
| mosasaur | cluckj: No, it is the same thing: it prints in millimeters per second instead of "object at once". Can't you see how important a difference that is? | 08:04 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/irc/useless_inventions.txt | 08:04 |
| cluckj | o_O | 08:04 |
| cluckj | lol | 08:05 |
| mosasaur | never mind, all the great inventions met heavy resistance at first | 08:05 |
| fenn | heh i actually thought about "Trailer hitch for the Honda Civic" | 08:06 |
| fenn | so copernicus, what will you use these tweezers for? | 08:06 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm working on a paper, I need to be left alone. | 08:06 |
| mosasaur | to fly like superman or to have OBE | 08:06 |
| fenn | but you can just take drugs such as cannabis to do that | 08:07 |
| cluckj | iirc it's already possible to fuck with someone's sense of balance without shooting sound into their ear | 08:07 |
| cluckj | ya, drugs | 08:07 |
| fenn | i feel like we're back to the "wacky adventures with talking dog" again | 08:08 |
| mosasaur | But then I would need to invent the tweezers for the half circle balance organs too. Now is your chance to make history by coming up with term for that. | 08:09 |
| fenn | otolithography | 08:09 |
| cluckj | oh one of my friends was studying a lab in japan that was messing with balance | 08:09 |
| fenn | the remote controlled human stuff? | 08:11 |
| mosasaur | close fenn, but no cigar | 08:11 |
| cluckj | fenn, ye | 08:11 |
| cluckj | s | 08:11 |
| cluckj | maeda laboratory at osaka university? | 08:11 |
| cluckj | maybe... | 08:12 |
| cluckj | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqbhyLDLAg | 08:12 |
| fenn | looks about right http://academic.odysci.com/author/1010112982718812/taro-maeda | 08:12 |
| cluckj | that dude is wily as hell | 08:13 |
| gradstudentbot | I think using the laser is making me sterile. | 08:14 |
| cluckj | my friend was saying he was trying to cultivate the aura of mad scientist, and succeeding pretty well at it | 08:14 |
| fenn | yeah i saw a tv news segment on this | 08:15 |
| fenn | have you read "manna" by marshall brain? http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm | 08:18 |
| cluckj | what's it about? | 08:19 |
| cluckj | that dude went to my university :) | 08:19 |
| fenn | replacing management positions with AI, remote controlled humans, and the jobless economic recovery | 08:19 |
| cluckj | hahaha | 08:20 |
| fenn | the second half of the book is more optimistic | 08:20 |
| fenn | the main characters get jailbreaked from their welfare prison by free-love linux hippies from australia | 08:24 |
| mosasaur | It's probably just her again, with less singularity. | 08:24 |
| cluckj | lmao | 08:25 |
| fenn | no, manna ("her") is definitely the bad guy, and there's plenty of "singularity" if that's what you want to call it | 08:25 |
| cluckj | I'll add it to my kindle library | 08:26 |
| mosasaur | An artist has to massage the facts a little now and then, fenn. | 08:27 |
| cluckj | you should check out richard powers' Orfeo | 08:28 |
| fenn | gasp. a science fiction book i don't have | 08:29 |
| mosasaur | http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/under.htm?2 | 08:30 |
| mosasaur | maybe even better | 08:30 |
| mosasaur | a la limitless | 08:30 |
| fenn | i like ted chiang, i wish he were more widely known | 08:30 |
| fenn | have you read "story of your life" | 08:31 |
| cluckj | fenn, it just came out, and it's about a biohacker | 08:31 |
| cluckj | it's fairly grounded in reality, I'd hesitate to even call it science fiction | 08:32 |
| cluckj | maybe contemporary kinda-ficticious-non-fiction | 08:32 |
| fenn | hm. | 08:32 |
| cluckj | I haven't read any ted chiang | 08:32 |
| mosasaur | Thanks fenn, for reminding me, I was absolutely planning to read that. How could I forget? | 08:35 |
| @kanzure | 06:48 <@jblake> the usual thing for multiplex addressing is to have a layer of north-south wires, then a layer of transistors, then a layer of east-west wires. you leave the wires at high-impedence except for the row and column of the cell you want, which you pull high and low respectively, and that causes the transistor at that cell to switch | 08:35 |
| @kanzure | 06:50 <@jblake> that said, afaik most micromirror devices just use direct addressing driven by local demuxes because they don't have a strong reason to avoid excess layers; indirect addressing is more of a tft/lcd thing | 08:35 |
| fenn | that's called TFT | 08:36 |
| fenn | thin film transistor | 08:36 |
| fenn | i don't think it would work for sonar arrays because you have to drive the outputs with a continuous function. maybe it could work if you updated fast enough, but they're already running at megahertz | 08:38 |
| cluckj | all I have is a borrowed print version of orfeo or I'd send you the ebook :\ | 08:38 |
| fenn | there may not be an ebook yet | 08:38 |
| @kanzure | 08:40 <@jblake> yeah the technique i described assumes that you are either driving a device with some memory, or you are only driving a single element at a time | 08:41 |
| @kanzure | hmph | 08:41 |
| fenn | so, the thing about "phased arrays" is they are an array where each element has a phase offset and the whole array is driven with a common function | 08:42 |
| @kanzure | 08:42 <@jblake> if you can afford to stick latches at every site, then you can build an array of shift registers, each covering a whole row of the matrix, and then simultaneously drive a bunch of latches to copy data from the shift registers to the elements | 08:43 |
| fenn | each pixel needs a phase modulator (delay element) but that can be a simple passive element like a capacitor | 08:43 |
| fenn | i have no idea what i'm talking about. gah | 08:44 |
| fenn | there are digital resistors (basically a register controlling a r2r ladder and some transistors) but i dunno about capacitors | 08:46 |
| @kanzure | 08:46 <@jblake> if your elements have really low power draw you can build a DRAM matrix on top of them, and then drive them directly off the cells; the DRAM cells will decay very quickly with a draw of even a single transistor, but it might be slow enough that you can keep up with the refresh demands | 08:47 |
| fenn | um, no. | 08:47 |
| @kanzure | yeah i dunno where he thinks he is going | 08:47 |
| fenn | he's just describing how LCD panels work | 08:47 |
| fenn | maybe a shift register for each pixel and do PWM; the length of the register determines the delay and hence the phase offset | 08:49 |
| mosasaur | Maybe you could reuse or repurpose some of the stuff they use to compute electron orbitals, I mean if we're just trying to talk about vaguely related things. | 08:50 |
| @kanzure | i don't see how that's helpful, even in the vague way | 08:52 |
| mosasaur | there's nice 3d shapes | 08:52 |
| fenn | "A phased array antenna is composed of lots of radiating elements each with a phase shifter." | 08:52 |
| fenn | "Phase shifters switching different detour lines are faster than regulators. In the picture a 4 bits-switching phase shifter which is used in a radar unit is shown. Different detour lines are switched to the signal way. It is created therefore 16 different phase angles" | 08:53 |
| fenn | the detour line switching is like a r2r ladder but with delay lines instead of resistors | 08:53 |
| fenn | this is for a radar system; it wouldn't work with sonar because it's too fast (the delay lines would be too long) but you could switch in capacitors instead | 08:53 |
| fenn | from http://www.radartutorial.eu/06.antennas/an14.en.html and http://www.radartutorial.eu/06.antennas/an16.en.html | 08:54 |
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| fenn | this document sounds like it was written by a french person | 08:55 |
| fenn | i should be reading the tpub sonar operator's manual | 08:56 |
| fenn | blergh i should be sleeping | 08:59 |
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| fenn | maybe you could build digital delay lines inside an fpga | 09:11 |
| fenn | or variable length shift registers (it amounts to the same thing) | 09:12 |
| fenn | the thing they never explained on star trek was that the tricorder and the phaser were actually the same device | 09:14 |
| cpopell | wut? no they weren't | 09:14 |
| @kanzure | that's his point, that they weren't explained | 09:15 |
| @kanzure | pay attention :p | 09:15 |
| fenn | a phaser is a phased array maser, and a tricorder uses phased ultrasound scanners | 09:16 |
| cluckj | it's not a maser, it's a nadion particle emitter | 09:16 |
| * cluckj nerd alert | 09:16 | |
| fenn | oh yeah? why's it called a "phaser" then | 09:17 |
| cpopell | technobabble | 09:17 |
| cluckj | ^ | 09:17 |
| fenn | Originally (from the production notes to TOS), the phaser was a PHoton mASER, since at the time of writing the laser was a relative unknown, and powers were not expected to be very great. Masers, on the other hand, were already very powerful machines which produce very destructive radiation pulses. The term "phaser" has since been revised as a backronym for PHASed Energy Rectification, though | 09:18 |
| fenn | from a physics standpoint even this is of equal semantic content—ordinary incoherent light is not "rectified", or synchronous, whereas lasing and masing emissions are rectified, or synchronous. | 09:18 |
| cluckj | in TNG they retconned it to basically a magic particle generator | 09:19 |
| fenn | it then goes on to talk about "nadion" but obviously this is just some bullshit written by someone who didn't care | 09:19 |
| fenn | "refracted through superconducting crystals" uh huh, and would you like a donut with that? | 09:19 |
| @kanzure | /topic some bullshit written by someone who didn't care | 09:20 |
| cluckj | lol | 09:20 |
| fenn | anyway a phased maser emitter would be pretty badass; it would make it basically impossible to miss your target | 09:20 |
| cluckj | :) | 09:23 |
| fenn | i guess they were using "nadions" because nobody could shoot worth a damn | 09:24 |
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| fenn | a lot of this sci-fi weaponry is based on real stuff, but nobody knows what the original stuff was about because they only know the technobabble | 09:27 |
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| cluckj | so? | 09:28 |
| fenn | scrolling down the star trek weapons page i see "tricobalt device" which is probably named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb | 09:29 |
| fenn | really a pretty horrible concept | 09:29 |
| cluckj | conceptually it is, I guess | 09:29 |
| cluckj | it's supposed to be a super-powerful photon torpedo | 09:29 |
| fenn | it's weird how similar jordin kare's modular laser launch vehicle looks to a photon torpedo http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/abstracts/897Kare.pdf | 09:34 |
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| cluckj | probably a fan of star trek | 09:36 |
| fenn | oops that was just the abstract. here's the full paper http://fennetic.net/irc/897Kare-modular-laser-launch.pdf see figure 5 on page 7 | 09:37 |
| fenn | nah he had good reasons to make it that shape | 09:37 |
| cluckj | hahaha, that's totally a photon torpedo | 09:38 |
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| fenn | it's also a really cool launch system that has properties no other system does, like gradual scalability | 09:39 |
| fenn | you just keep building more and more lasers | 09:39 |
| cluckj | hehe | 09:39 |
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| fenn | star trek was first this time... | 09:40 |
| fenn | http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050912061806/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9e/Mark_XXV_torpedo_interior.jpg | 09:41 |
| cluckj | yes | 09:42 |
| superkuh | Regarding Voyager's use of photons, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k | 09:43 |
| superkuh | Er, photon torpedos. | 09:43 |
| cluckj | o_O | 09:47 |
| xentrac | fenn: the first star trek game I played, on I think a TRS-80 in I think about 1980, had "masers" rather than phasers | 09:47 |
| xentrac | it seems like you ought to be able to do a phased maser array | 09:48 |
| xentrac | but I'm not sure why it's necessary | 09:48 |
| fenn | oh definitely, all the solar power satellites from gerard o'neill used phased maser arrays to beam the power back to earth | 09:49 |
| cluckj | more efficient murdering technology | 09:49 |
| fenn | it wouldn't hurt a fly | 09:49 |
| cluckj | wouldn't, or couldn't? | 09:49 |
| fenn | they had an extensive PR campaign trying to prove how harmless it was and how it was impossible to cause any damage | 09:50 |
| xentrac | oh, I guess that is one reason you would want to build a phased maser arrays | 09:50 |
| xentrac | if each of the masers was mounted on a separate satellite | 09:50 |
| xentrac | s/ys// | 09:50 |
| xentrac | argh neverm ind | 09:50 |
| xentrac | you can presumably hurt flies with intense enough microwaves | 09:50 |
| xentrac | even at 2.4GHz a fly spans a substantial fraction of a wavelength | 09:51 |
| cluckj | let | 09:51 |
| fenn | i forget exactly what wavelength they used, but the "rectenna" looked something like a grape trellis | 09:51 |
| cluckj | s get a fly and put it in a microwave | 09:51 |
| cluckj | or something fly-sized | 09:52 |
| cluckj | maybe a gummy bear | 09:52 |
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| fenn | heh john mccarthy strikes again! http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/oneill1.html | 09:52 |
| cluckj | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dLvnmRi0rk | 09:52 |
| cluckj | thanks youtube | 09:52 |
| fenn | .title | 09:52 |
| yoleaux | Microwave Gummy Bears | 09:52 |
| dingo | http://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-14:08.tcp.asc | 09:56 |
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| fenn | the solar power satellite maser was a really ratty little device because it was mostly a vacuum tube operating in the vacuum of space, so it was a few wires next to some other wires and some plates to act as a capacitor | 09:58 |
| xentrac | cluckj: I'm surprised that the gummy bears mostly melted | 09:58 |
| cluckj | lol | 09:59 |
| xentrac | a microwave oven is only on the order of a kilowatt per square meter | 09:59 |
| cluckj | I'm not....but I've put all kinds of stuff in the microwave | 09:59 |
| xentrac | barely more than direct sunshine (which can also melt gummy bears, but has a shorter wavelength) | 09:59 |
| xentrac | although this depends on how much stuff you have in the microwave to absorb things | 10:00 |
| @kanzure | there was a scifi story somewhere about interstellar von neumann probes using maser beams for propulsion(?) or communication | 10:00 |
| xentrac | but masers are not limited to a kilowatt per square meter | 10:00 |
| cluckj | sunlight is spread all across the spectrum though, a household microwave is at a specific frequency | 10:00 |
| JayDugger | Or you might go read the 1975 NASA design study on solar power satellites and space settlement. | 10:01 |
| xentrac | yeah, which is presumably why one gummy bear survived: a node | 10:01 |
| cluckj | yeah it was right in the middle | 10:01 |
| JayDugger | McCarthy's making the reasonable assumption that all mass comes from Earth, which differs from http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/75SummerStudy/Table_of_Contents1.html, and closes with a snide comment. | 10:07 |
| JayDugger | He should have stuck with the line of argument that terrestrial fission reactors out-perform SPSS, except in rare cases where you can reasonably transmit power. | 10:09 |
| xentrac | I should read through McCarthy's site at some point | 10:09 |
| xentrac | even though it's too late to answer him | 10:09 |
| fenn | it's absurd to think that anyone would lift huge amounts of light metals up from earth for the purpose of industry | 10:09 |
| JayDugger | Oh, and that they'd use photovoltaics, which is only one of two possibilities. | 10:09 |
| JayDugger | Pretty much, yes. | 10:10 |
| JayDugger | IIRC, the design study assumed lunar mining and on-orbit refining. | 10:10 |
| JayDugger | I'll say it though--probably perfectly doable with enough nuclear pulse rockets. (Having flogged not one, but two dead horses, I'll shut up.) | 10:11 |
| sheena | allergy shots are just distilled allergens.. possible to make at home? | 10:11 |
| fenn | mccarthy seemed pretty in favor of the idea of SPSS but he also thought nuclear power was more practical, so, uh, okay.. | 10:12 |
| fenn | JayDugger: what is a nuclear pulse rocket? | 10:13 |
| fenn | like project orion? | 10:13 |
| fenn | sheena: take magnesium supplements, much safer and more effective in the short term | 10:14 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: ...terrestrial launch using nuclear pulse rockets? That turns out to have some significant disadvantages even if it works properly | 10:14 |
| sheena | fenn: results in what, biologically? | 10:14 |
| xentrac | I mean, the number of excess cancer deaths from just the US nuclear test program was significant, if not staggering | 10:15 |
| xentrac | and you're talking about something similar to the US nuclear test program *for every launch*, if I understand right (same as fenn) | 10:15 |
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| fenn | sheena: magnesium is required for degranulation of mast cells and it also lets the muscles relax after a sneezing fit | 10:16 |
| @kanzure | if it's really just distilled allergens, then yes you could probably do some sort of chromatography | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | chromatography purification | 10:17 |
| fenn | do allergy shots really work? | 10:17 |
| sheena | yes | 10:17 |
| xentrac | fenn: also it was a super awesome postmodern dance performance in the 1970s, perhaps the most influential postmodern dance performance of all time | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | sheena: have you checked http://alibaba.com/ for cheapo allergy shots? | 10:17 |
| sheena | dosage on magnesium? price? | 10:17 |
| sheena | kanzure: scary shit | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | bah | 10:18 |
| JayDugger | xentrac: 1-10 more deaths per year, IIRC. | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | you live with people, they'll find you if something goes wrong | 10:18 |
| xentrac | kanzure: alibaba is not reliable for drugs | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | xentrac: evidence? | 10:18 |
| JayDugger | I'd call the price worth it, but I also think thousands of deaths per year in auto accidents a small price to pay for giving up animal-powered vehicles. YMMV. | 10:19 |
| fenn | sheena: 500mg or so of magnesium citrate; i get liquid oral solution, i guess the price is about $0.2 per day | 10:20 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/issue.aspx?y=0&content=true&id=982&css=print&page=6 suggests 11000 total deaths resulting from about 15 years of tests | 10:20 |
| JayDugger | The military implications of having a very large, extremely fast, very well armored spaceship are left to the reader. | 10:20 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: I don't think 11000 deaths per launch is in any way a reasonable price | 10:21 |
| fenn | sheena: magnesium oxide is also commonly sold but it isn't absorbed very well | 10:21 |
| sheena | fenn: you have seasonal allergies or year round? how much does it help? I'm already on two Rx meds and an OTC | 10:21 |
| xentrac | "About 22,000 radiation-related cancers, half of them fatal, might eventually result from external exposure from NTS and global fallout," | 10:22 |
| fenn | seasonal and to mold and various herbal substances that people like to burn. it helps a lot, has no side effects, and seems to improve life in general | 10:22 |
| fenn | it's estimated that 90% of americans are deficient in magnesium | 10:22 |
| sheena | seems worth trying. i'll pick some up in town on monday maybe.. have you tried dietary magnesium? | 10:22 |
| xentrac | I think this article was written in the 1990s so we might have better numbers today, JayDugger? | 10:23 |
| JayDugger | xentrac--That number is for atmospheric testing, not for launches of a hypothetical nuclear pulse rocket. | 10:23 |
| fenn | it's difficult to get enough magnesium from your diet | 10:23 |
| fenn | you have to eat a lot of snails and spinach | 10:23 |
| JayDugger | No one's likely to build one. | 10:23 |
| cluckj | or nuts? | 10:23 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: right; I'm suggesting that a launch of a hypothetical nuclear pulse rocket would be roughly equivalent to the entire atmospheric test program | 10:24 |
| fenn | modern nuts contain large amounts of inositol hexaphosphate (phytic acid) because they are grown with phosphate fertilizers | 10:24 |
| sheena | pumpkin seeds? | 10:24 |
| xentrac | mmm, inositol | 10:24 |
| fenn | this binds the magnesium and makes it unavailable, although it still shows up in the assays | 10:24 |
| fenn | pumpkin seeds works | 10:24 |
| fenn | i guess | 10:24 |
| xentrac | I should cook my pumpkin seeds | 10:24 |
| sheena | cocoa | 10:25 |
| sheena | jeesus | 10:25 |
| sheena | excuses to eat BROWNIES? | 10:25 |
| sheena | im in | 10:25 |
| cluckj | nice | 10:25 |
| sheena | http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5471/2 | 10:25 |
| xentrac | the same article also says ". In a related activity, we evaluated the risks of thyroid cancer from that exposure and estimated that about 49,000 fallout-related cases might occur in the United States, almost all of them among persons who were under age 20 at some time during the period 1951-57, with 95-percent uncertainty limits of 11,300 and 212,000" | 10:25 |
| fenn | heh. cocoa also stimulates the adrenal system and is a vasoconstrictor, which causes magnesium loss | 10:25 |
| xentrac | which seems strange because 49000 > 22000 | 10:25 |
| cluckj | fenn, wouldn't that mean that almost all vegetables contain phytic acid? | 10:25 |
| xentrac | cluckj: yes, almost all vegetables contain some amount of phytic acid | 10:26 |
| fenn | cluckj: it's a storage molecule mostlye present in seed coatings (bran) | 10:26 |
| fenn | mostly* | 10:26 |
| xentrac | but in different amounts | 10:26 |
| cluckj | hm | 10:26 |
| xentrac | I think thyroid cancer is less fatal than average cancer but the 22000 was supposed to be the total cancer | 10:27 |
| sheena | oh damn. no brownies :( | 10:27 |
| fenn | you can soak with rye berries overnight or in yogurt to break up the phytic acid but it's a pain | 10:27 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, I don't know where you get that number, xentrac. There's a much lower one (1-10 deaths per launch) in the popular history (Dyson, George. Project Orion – The Atomic Spaceship 1957-1965. Penguin. ISBN 0-14-027732-3). Even that number is a back-of-the-envelope calculation, IIRC. | 10:27 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: I pasted the URL where I got that number above | 10:27 |
| cluckj | would roasting break up the phytic acid? that would mean almonds are fine | 10:27 |
| xentrac | Project Orion was, I think, proposed to use nuclear pulse rockets in deep space | 10:28 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, and I don't see from that article how you equate one with the other. | 10:28 |
| sheena | seaweed? | 10:28 |
| fenn | sheena: go ahead and eat cocoa if you want.. | 10:28 |
| xentrac | rather than for terrestrial launches | 10:28 |
| JayDugger | Spirulina won't help. | 10:28 |
| xentrac | oh | 10:28 |
| sheena | fenn: lol i do eat some, but if consuming mass quantities of it wont help me, meh | 10:29 |
| xentrac | I guess this explains it: "Early versions of this vehicle were proposed to take off from the ground with significant associated nuclear fallout" | 10:29 |
| JayDugger | I think that was proposed later, xentrac. IIRC, they proposed towing far out to sea to minimize fallout. | 10:29 |
| fenn | seaweed doesn't have much magnesium. it does have iodine and selenium tho | 10:29 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: that would help a lot | 10:29 |
| cluckj | lol, why would you launch a nuclear powered rocket, using the nuke on earth... | 10:29 |
| JayDugger | Sure. Not all nuclear explosives are bombs . | 10:29 |
| cluckj | why not use a harmless chemical fuel for the first few stages...................... | 10:29 |
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| xentrac | also, though, it took a long time to appreciate the cancer risks, because the cancers surfaced over a long period of time | 10:30 |
| JayDugger | Because it far out-performs everything else. | 10:30 |
| fenn | why not just use a gas core nuclear thermal rocket | 10:30 |
| cluckj | especially in the "giving people cancer" area | 10:30 |
| xentrac | so if someone did an estimate in the 1970s or 1980s they might easily come up with a number that was low by an order of magnitude or two | 10:30 |
| xentrac | fenn: yeah, that might work | 10:31 |
| JayDugger | Let me know when you want to try the experiment. :) I volunteer for the crew. | 10:31 |
| xentrac | Dyson's book is from 2003 | 10:31 |
| fenn | or the "nuclear lightbulb" if the open gas core is too much pollution | 10:31 |
| xentrac | sure, the crew won't be in the fallout zone! | 10:31 |
| cluckj | lol | 10:31 |
| sheena | 1/3 of a cup of pumpkin seeds is a daily allowance.. but i wonder how absorbable it is. maybe more so if i put it in my smoothie? fenn | 10:31 |
| JayDugger | Exactly the point. | 10:31 |
| xentrac | haha | 10:31 |
| JayDugger | fenn, I think the engineering was better understood for Project Orion's flavor of paper spaceship. | 10:32 |
| fenn | sheena: cluckj yes roasting breaks up phytic acid | 10:32 |
| xentrac | fenn: cool, thanks | 10:32 |
| JayDugger | Certainly at the time, and perhaps still so today. | 10:32 |
| xentrac | I roast my pumpkin seeds anyway | 10:32 |
| xentrac | they are yummier that way | 10:33 |
| cluckj | so the .5cu of almonds I eat a day probably gives me enough bioavailable Mg | 10:33 |
| cluckj | ? | 10:33 |
| fenn | how many grams is that | 10:34 |
| fenn | 20 almonds contains 20% of your daily value of magnesium | 10:34 |
| xentrac | 8.3e-27, fenn | 10:34 |
| xentrac | according to units | 10:34 |
| fenn | lol | 10:34 |
| xentrac | but that's because it's interpreting cu as "centi-atomicmassunit" | 10:34 |
| cluckj | lol | 10:35 |
| xentrac | 50 daltons of almonds! | 10:35 |
| cluckj | about 70g of almonds | 10:35 |
| fenn | ok so twice that per day | 10:35 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, it looks better if you see it through a UV scope. | 10:36 |
| fenn | the other thing that helps with allergies is rinsing your nose out in the morning BEFORE you start sneezing | 10:36 |
| fenn | and neti pots are evil, just snort the water and blow it out | 10:37 |
| xentrac | oh raelly? I didn't nkow that | 10:37 |
| xentrac | that sounds like a lot of work to equal the volume of a neti pot, but hey, no specialized and unavailable equipment! | 10:38 |
| JayDugger | If you'd like to know more about the various proposed Project Orion paper space ships, http://aerospaceprojectsreview.com/ev1n5.htm, where you can buy reprints of the declassified presentations on the subject. | 10:38 |
| @kanzure | are those files available | 10:39 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: thanks, that's awesome! | 10:39 |
| JayDugger | Only for purchase, I'm afraid. | 10:39 |
| xentrac | are they in the public domain? I guess they were authored by General Atomics, so maybe not | 10:39 |
| JayDugger | That fellow supports himself by craphounding the originals, cleaning them up, and reselling the results. | 10:40 |
| @kanzure | "V1N5 download order: $8.00" | 10:40 |
| JayDugger | The originals, as USG proposals, probably were public domain. His reworked reprints, probably not. | 10:40 |
| fenn | craphounding isn't a very sustainable business | 10:41 |
| xentrac | if they were authored by USG employees, then they'd be in the public domain, but copyright law doesn't cause you to abandon copyright in something just because you send a copy to the government | 10:41 |
| JayDugger | IIRC, he also uses some of the drawing for CAD work for scale models of the paper spaceships. | 10:41 |
| JayDugger | xentrac, that's generally true. I don't know how it works for project proposals done under contract. | 10:42 |
| xentrac | fenn: depends. probably not in this case | 10:42 |
| JayDugger | Craphounding is hard to make pay, but with luck you can make a hobby break even. | 10:42 |
| JayDugger | (I used to craphound role-playing games.) | 10:42 |
| xentrac | it depends a lot | 10:43 |
| xentrac | here in Buenos Aires there are thousands of people who make a living recycling cardboard, aluminum, and copper from the garbage | 10:43 |
| fenn | JayDugger: how does orion compare to big dumb solid rocket boosters and tether momentum exchange? | 10:44 |
| fenn | for transport to LEO | 10:44 |
| xentrac | the time a CRT survives on the sidewalk before someone comes along and breaks off the yoke to recycle it is typically under half an hour, depending on how busy the neighborhood is | 10:44 |
| fenn | poor CRT :( | 10:45 |
| xentrac | it's dangerous, dirty, and deadening work | 10:45 |
| xentrac | but it's apparently sustainable | 10:45 |
| fenn | i heard they were going to pay them to do something else | 10:45 |
| xentrac | and presumably landfills now have higher concentrations of many elements than the original ores do | 10:45 |
| xentrac | who were? | 10:46 |
| fenn | to get all the donkey carts off the street. so then people bought donkeys to say they were a recycler | 10:46 |
| xentrac | no, I have never seen a donkey cart in Buenos Aires | 10:46 |
| xentrac | horse carts and person carts all the time | 10:46 |
| xentrac | but no donkeys | 10:46 |
| fenn | the government was going to pay recyclers to find some other profession | 10:46 |
| xentrac | maybe you're thinking of a different country | 10:46 |
| xentrac | also horse carts have been illegal in Buenos Aires for a century (but I still see them on a weekly basis) | 10:47 |
| JayDugger | Anyway, if Project Orion isn't sufficiently shocking, look up the history of nuclear powered aircraft in the 50s and 60s (the Soviet stuff is really frightening), the proposed Orion battleship that JFK cancelled, and Project Pluto (an air-breathing supersonic nuclear ramjet powered cruise missile). That last one seemed to make sense until ICBMs started working, then everyone involved thought better of it. | 10:47 |
| JayDugger | (Fun fact: Ralph Merkle once claimed his Dad worked on Project Pluto.) | 10:47 |
| sheena | ireally want something ubuntu frirendly that will read my pdf ebooks to me | 10:48 |
| sheena | anyone? | 10:48 |
| @kanzure | festival? | 10:48 |
| xentrac | I didn't think Project Orion was shocking | 10:48 |
| xentrac | it just turned out to be a bad idea | 10:48 |
| @kanzure | festival does text-to-speech on linux | 10:49 |
| xentrac | festival works, but I like espeak better | 10:49 |
| @kanzure | you can use pdftotext to get text out of a pdf | 10:49 |
| JayDugger | sheena, aloud? Ah...there's jasper.github.io, I think, which does speech synthesis on a RaspPi. | 10:49 |
| JayDugger | Some PDFs. | 10:49 |
| JayDugger | Some PDFs suck. | 10:49 |
| sheena | aloud, yeah. not all pdfs, either. some mobi n shit. ugh | 10:49 |
| @kanzure | pdftotext filename.pdf outputfile.txt; cat outfile.txt | festival –tts | 10:49 |
| @kanzure | you can convert mobi to pdf with calibre | 10:49 |
| xentrac | pdftotext Beyond\ war\ The\ human\ potential\ for\ peace.pdf >(espeak) | 10:49 |
| fenn | sheena: i was playing around with flite the other day: http://fennetic.net/irc/read_out_loud | 10:50 |
| xentrac | JayDugger: jasper.github.io? | 10:51 |
| xentrac | .title http://jasper.github.io/ | 10:51 |
| yoleaux | Page not found · GitHub Pages | 10:51 |
| sheena | nothing i can add to calibre to read for me? :D | 10:51 |
| JayDugger | Damn. Sorry. Let me look, rather than remember. | 10:51 |
| xentrac | sheena: that sounds like a good idea but I don't know of it | 10:51 |
| @kanzure | sheena: there's the open-with plugin in calibre | 10:51 |
| xentrac | kanzure: I think you mean --tts | 10:51 |
| @kanzure | copy paste error | 10:51 |
| JayDugger | https://jasperproject.github.io/ | 10:51 |
| xentrac | .title | 10:51 |
| yoleaux | Control everything with your voice | 10:52 |
| xentrac | that's awesome! not text-to-speech but speech-to-textandstuff | 10:52 |
| fenn | kanzure: does that command line actually work well? | 10:56 |
| @kanzure | no clue, i don't use it | 10:56 |
| xentrac | fenn: I tested mine | 10:56 |
| xentrac | it runs but I wouldn't say it works well | 10:57 |
| xentrac | among other things there's no way to pause or rewind | 10:57 |
| fenn | i noticed there's actually a lot of weird punctuation that gets pronounced, and the phrasing is bad, so that's why read_out_loud has so many sed lines | 10:57 |
| fenn | control-Z works for pausing | 10:58 |
| xentrac | is flite festival-lite? | 10:59 |
| xentrac | pdftotext Beyond\ war\ The\ human\ potential\ for\ peace.pdf >(espeak --stdout >tmp.wav) & mplayer tmp.wav gives you pause, rewind, and speed control | 10:59 |
| xentrac | mplayer -af scaletempo might work better | 10:59 |
| superkuh | I put together a little perl script to deal with punctuation, scientific notation and jargon, etc, in TTS. | 11:03 |
| superkuh | It is not pretty but it works. | 11:03 |
| superkuh | http://superkuh.com/tktts.html | 11:04 |
| superkuh | It is very close to what you wanted, sheena | 11:04 |
| sheena | if i have nautilus installed, do i need to do the 'new' one? | 11:06 |
| superkuh | No. | 11:07 |
| superkuh | That's just for desktops with MATE instead of gnome2. | 11:07 |
| superkuh | Someday I'll use PAR::Packer so users don't have to install all the perl module dependencies externally. | 11:09 |
| sheena | i have lxde,not gnome.. | 11:10 |
| superkuh | If you use nautilus as the file manager everything should work fine. | 11:10 |
| * fenn highfives sheena | 11:12 | |
| sheena | fenn: gnome 3 and unity and ugh. not for me! i have some.. very particular "wants" and "needs" from my desktop environment, and lxde fit.. i tried probably 5 or 6.. gah | 11:12 |
| sheena | superkuh: i gotta go do some animal things, but when i get back, i'll work on setting this up. might poke you and kanzure into helping me :) | 11:13 |
| xmj | sheena: ever used FBReader? | 11:13 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, good point. On Android, FBReader has fairly good TTS. | 11:13 |
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| sheena | nooo | 11:14 |
| superkuh | I'll be asleep soon. But if we're on at the same time later I am willing to help with the idiosyncrasies of my script (there are many). | 11:14 |
| xmj | i recently looked into FBReader when updating it to 0.99.6 on FreeBSD, yet.. tts is nothing interesting to me | 11:14 |
| sheena | back in a while, thanks guys. i'll check in for more info on fbreader | 11:14 |
| gradstudentbot | Where are the hot plates? | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | under the atomic force microscope | 11:15 |
| fenn | inside the fusion reactor | 11:15 |
| fenn | eatin all ur fuel | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/machine-intelligence/Botworld "Botworld is a cellular automaton developed at MIRI as a concrete environment in which to study self-modifying agents embedded in their environment. (Contrast this with "classical" models of artificial intelligence where agents interact with the environment only via I/O channels.)" | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | http://intelligence.org/files/Botworld.pdf | 11:17 |
| * fenn snores | 11:17 | |
| JayDugger | literate haskell? | 11:17 |
| @kanzure | just evidence that singinst is doing something | 11:17 |
| fenn | they should have written it in postscript so the document itself became intelligent | 11:18 |
| @kanzure | for some value of something | 11:18 |
| JayDugger | Yeah...ask them about Flare when you next see them. http://flarelang.sourceforge.net/ | 11:19 |
| JayDugger | But snark aside, I do feel happier that they have some code to show. | 11:19 |
| gradstudentbot | Do I use a one or two sided t-test for that? | 11:20 |
| fenn | past my bedtime.. good time of day gentlebots | 11:20 |
| JayDugger | Mine too, good night everyone. | 11:21 |
| cluckj | laters | 11:22 |
| @_archels | kanzure: I don't deal with the wetware myself. all my neurons are silicon | 11:25 |
| @kanzure | hmph | 11:25 |
| @kanzure | can you find us a squishy neuron person? | 11:26 |
| @_archels | I'm surrounded by them, what do you need to know/get done? | 11:26 |
| @kanzure | i mean someone who would be willing to idle in here and tolerate the themes | 11:26 |
| @_archels | hm there might be one guy who's interested. not sure about his status on the H+ front | 11:27 |
| @kanzure | feel free to downplay that | 11:27 |
| @_archels | yeah, it's only the name and theme of the channel | 11:27 |
| @kanzure | shrug :) | 11:28 |
| cluckj | lol | 11:28 |
| @_archels | I think this is him https://github.com/wonkoderverstaendige | 11:29 |
| @_archels | based on the email address and avatar, heh | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | "Python/PyUSB interface to the FL593FL evaluation board for the TeamWavelength FL500 laser diode driver" | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | "Software for electrophysiology data acquisition" | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | "Optical Stimulation Waveform Generator" | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | hm! | 11:30 |
| @kanzure | .title http://open-ephys.org/ | 11:30 |
| yoleaux | Open Ephys | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | argh, it should say "open-source electrophysiology" | 11:31 |
| @kanzure | https://open-ephys.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OEW/Home | 11:31 |
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| @_archels | http://elpisfil.org/ | 11:50 |
| @_archels | .title | 11:50 |
| yoleaux | ELPIS Foundation for Indefinite Lifespan | 11:50 |
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| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCtal_Legend | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | "Tim Schafer, the game's creative director, was inspired to create the game by his own past musical experiences. The game features the character of Eddie Riggs, voiced by and modeled after Jack Black, a roadie who is transported to a fantasy world inspired by the artwork of heavy metal album covers. Eddie becomes the world's savior, leading the down-trodden humans against a range of supernatural overlords using a battle axe, his Flying V ... | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | ... guitar that can tap into the magical powers of the world, and a customizable hot rod." | 13:05 |
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| @heath | http://www.projectara.com/mdk/ | 13:14 |
| @_archels | WA says: 7.13 billion people alive on Earth | 13:20 |
| @_archels | I wonder which 1.3 billion they are excluding | 13:20 |
| @_archels | seriously, what do you think about the project, heath? | 13:21 |
| @heath | i want it to succeed | 13:22 |
| @_archels | where do you see this in 10 years? | 13:24 |
| @heath | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2OEKL1w__4 | 13:27 |
| @heath | .title | 13:27 |
| yoleaux | Project Ara Developers Conference Day 1 | 13:27 |
| @heath | _archels: I don't know | 13:28 |
| delinquentme | https://medium.com/editors-picks/892b57499e77 | 13:30 |
| delinquentme | The particular figure of 80% of antiobiotics are used in farm animals ... | 13:30 |
| delinquentme | is fucking nutts | 13:30 |
| @_archels | "thermal imager module", "pulse oximeter module" | 13:31 |
| @_archels | now you're talking | 13:31 |
| gradstudentbot | Sure, I've been spending a lot of time at a pub.... well, pubmed at least. | 13:31 |
| @_archels | interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2OEKL1w__4&feature=share | 13:35 |
| @_archels | er http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2OEKL1w__4&feature=share&t=6h7m44s | 13:35 |
| @_archels | Electro-permanent magnets for module attachment | 13:37 |
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| @_archels | I was a bit skeptic when I first heard about this idea, but it does have its advantages | 13:39 |
| @_archels | they seem to be creating an open ecosystem around the phone itself | 13:39 |
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| @kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drE54ctrHBY | 13:51 |
| yoleaux | Fresnel Lens Solar Foundry Obsidian Farm 3800 ˚ F 2100˚ C Fresnel Optics | 13:51 |
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| @_archels | had to pull this off of Google Books in the end, Amazon doesn't even carry it | 14:09 |
| @_archels | ftp://ftp.turingbirds.com/misc/Longevitize%20-%20Essays%20on%20the%20Science,%20Philosophy%20and%20Politics%20of%20Longevity%20-%20Franco%20Cortese%20(ed.)%202013.pdf | 14:09 |
| @_archels | Longevitize - Essays on the Science, Philosophy and Politics of Longevity - Franco Cortese (ed.) 2013 | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | /misc | 14:10 |
| @_archels | yeah, maybe it's time for /transhumanism or so | 14:13 |
| @_archels | directories are an inane method for organising files, anyway | 14:13 |
| @kanzure | "I completely agree that Elsevier journal subscription income is probably 1 billion USD (or more), much more than 500,000,000 USD as I had early suggested. This only goes to show the massive shortfall in our understanding of where this total comes from? We have data from Brazil, data from Russell Group universities in the UK... we need far to more data to get a clearer picture of how Elsevier is amassing its largesse of income from academic ... | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | ... journal subscriptions. I note that there are over 9000 universities in the world (http://univ.cc/index.html) - not that all of these will pay Elsevier taxes. Not to mention the countless (anyone have a sensible figure?) non-university research institutes & businesses that have journal subscriptions. I know from experience that many natural history museums, by necessity have journal subscriptions e.g. the Natural History Museum (London), ... | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | ... the AMNH (NY), the Field Museum (Chicago)... 1 billion spread across 10,000 universities + research institutes + businesses is only 100,000 USD per year per entity. Thus > 1 billion USD income from Elsevier journal subscriptions alone would seem (sadly) very plausible to me. This wasted sum represents our complete failure to collectively bargain for fair & equitable access to knowledge. Without doubt we could provision this knowledge, ... | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | ... open access for everyone, for at least 1/2 to 1/10 of its current inflated cost!" | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | hehe http://seekingalpha.com/article/269679-oil-industry-profit-margin-ranks-fairly-low-there-are-bigger-fish | 14:24 |
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| @kanzure | elsevier might be second on that list? not sure | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | "Finally another base assumption is that "being a major player" is the only success condition. Would Bitcoin be an utter failure if instead of becoming as big as the USA economy it never became larger than the Australian economy? Australia isn't all that awful of a place, you know." | 14:46 |
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| @kanzure | ugh | 15:41 |
| eudoxia | what is it kanzure-chan | 15:42 |
| @kanzure | neglected to take stimulants today | 15:45 |
| @kanzure | it is not going well | 15:45 |
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| eudoxia | what nootropics did you take again? just adderall? | 15:46 |
| @kanzure | yep i have a very plain diet of adderall and soup | 15:49 |
| eudoxia | tomato soup is the best soup | 15:49 |
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| Lemminkainen | bone marrow and lentil soup with phosphatidylserine and resveratrol on the side | 16:06 |
| xentrac | adderall is your stimulant of choice? | 16:09 |
| @kanzure | it does really amazing things for me in a way that other stimulants don't | 16:14 |
| xentrac | that's interesting! how is it different? | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | (after lots and lots of testing of other prescription stimulants) | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | well it basically makes me not an extremely hyperactive moron | 16:15 |
| xentrac | they don't all do that? | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | nope | 16:15 |
| xentrac | I mean, all the amphetamines, methylphenidate, and cocaine | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | i have postulated that it is maybe because of the non-standard delivery mechanisms in adderall xr | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | but, that doesn't explain why the non-xr adderall is also effective for me, where as ritalin and vyvanse are not | 16:16 |
| xentrac | no | 16:16 |
| @kanzure | i mean, i certainly feel a stimulant effect with ritalin and vyvanse, but it's not the same | 16:16 |
| @kanzure | i should enter competitive pacing | 16:17 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't remember the paper, but someone definitely did that. | 16:18 |
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| @kanzure | xentrac: one example issue is that off of the drug, i seem to have either reduced or more twisted working memory, where scenarios or arguments that i construct just go in an endless loop because i keep replacing local information with other information (usually related to something i was doing a few minutes ago) | 16:21 |
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| @kanzure | where did that "there's no working memory" hypothesis thing go? hrm. | 16:23 |
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| nmz787_i | youtube just showed me a GE commercial for a hand-held ultrasound system | 16:36 |
| @kanzure | vscan | 16:37 |
| @kanzure | it's $7900 | 16:37 |
| nmz787_i | I'd contacted mobisante a while ago, they got back to be surprisingly | 16:38 |
| nmz787_i | I asked about veterinary usage | 16:38 |
| nmz787_i | thinking i'd be able to use my buddies farm to test out the device on myself (i'd do the cows too) | 16:38 |
| @kanzure | animal devices are not as heavily regulated by the fda | 16:38 |
| nmz787_i | they mentioned only having data for horses, i belive | 16:39 |
| @kanzure | selling these machines for $30-$50k is a neat trick | 16:39 |
| @kanzure | so far i have not been impressed by their knowledge of electronics | 16:40 |
| @kanzure | seeing as how few of them have fully-addressable 2d arrays other than by directly soldering wires everywhere.. | 16:42 |
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| nmz787_i | I'd like to see a review of the $1000 aliexpress items | 16:43 |
| nmz787_i | "3d ultrasound" | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | often 3d ultrasound just means "we are using phasing" | 16:46 |
| @kanzure | i suspect that the $300 transducers on ebay and alibaba do actually work, but i think they could be manufactured for much less | 16:46 |
| @kanzure | also, a lot of the "3d" stuff is sort of pathetic because most ultrasound machines do not do image reconstruction or 3d reconstruction from the collected data (like PET/MRI people do) | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | probably because ultrasound is less cool | 16:47 |
| Lemminkainen | everything could be manufactured for less in a command economy | 16:47 |
| Lemminkainen | I don't see how that point is really relevant to anything | 16:47 |
| Lemminkainen | if you think something is overpriced then you are free to try to do better | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | i think you've missed the part of the conversation where i affirmed i was interested in doing so | 16:48 |
| Lemminkainen | then please do, but perhaps do a market analysis to see what margin you need to command to recoup your time and money into the project within a reasonable timeframe | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | about $2 billion/year in sales globally | 16:50 |
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| nmz787_i | wow, embedded artists ships insanely fast | 17:31 |
| nmz787_i | i ordered on the night of the 27th (sunday) and UPS just delivered the package, which said it came from Sweden... via UPS Saver | 17:33 |
| nmz787_i | I feel like my package slipped into 2nd day air delivery or something, or there is some weird direct route from sweden to oregon | 17:33 |
| nmz787_i | huh, tracking says Sweden, Germany, Philadelphia, Luoisville, Portland | 17:34 |
| FourFire | kanzure, so, new spaceX rocket engine "lands" in the ocean, in a storm, reaches 0 velocity | 17:36 |
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| eudoxia | one time we got our mail missent to uganda :c | 17:43 |
| nmz787_i | more importantly, the spacex news page I loaded informed me of this hplus related event http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25399-engineered-vaginas-grown-in-women-for-the-first-time.html | 17:44 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S01460544-4 | 17:45 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/2f5a0214040decddce8b3c104232be0b.txt | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org10.1016/S0140-6736(14)60542-0 | 17:45 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 625, in send) | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(14)60542-0 | 17:45 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d76f2f3901a71757b24c55cedabc8186.txt | 17:46 |
| nmz787_i | oh, heres the right doi | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(14)60544-4 | 17:49 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a2395502c641e365f61ff0dd81e0112b.txt | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | 'Engineered autologous cartilage tissue for nasal reconstruction after tumour resection: an observational first-in-human trial' | 17:49 |
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| @kanzure | dcary: hi | 18:57 |
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| @kanzure | ball grid array escape pattern https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Practical_Electronics/PCB_Layout#Board_Thickness_and_Layers | 19:22 |
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| @ParahSailin | cool tip: if your kickstarter is more than two years to deliver, verify shipping addresses before shipping | 19:53 |
| @kanzure | otherwise? | 19:55 |
| @kanzure | it's clear that they already don't respect timeliness | 19:55 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 19:55 | |
| @ParahSailin | as long as they send me a replacement if whoever lives at my old apartment decides its their birthday | 19:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: how about a 2d array made up of rows of 1d linear arrays, where each 1d linear array directly routes to a nearby ribbon connector dropping through to under the pcb. | 19:59 |
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| kanzure | list of products banned from importing into the united states http://info.usitc.gov/sec/exclusion.nsf/72b1a4074ed08da7852567fd0064ad21?OpenView&Start=90 | 20:18 |
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| kanzure | "Certain Birthing Simulators and Associated Systems" | 20:22 |
| kanzure | "Certain Automotive Vehicles and Designs Therefore" | 20:22 |
| kanzure | "Certain MEMS Devices and Products Containing Same" | 20:23 |
| cluckj | hehehe birthing simulators | 20:23 |
| kanzure | "Certain Purple Protective Gloves" | 20:23 |
| cluckj | purple protective gloves? how are we supposed to defend ourselves against rogue artifacts? | 20:24 |
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| delinquentme | OK ideas: | 20:26 |
| delinquentme | If we knew what the specific chemicals inside the bloodstream were used to keep tissues alive ... | 20:29 |
| delinquentme | we could use that to create an environment to persist cells in , SPECIFICALLY within in a controlled environment ... optimized to minimize damage to the DNA | 20:30 |
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| kanzure | let's call it tissue culture | 20:31 |
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| Whysguy | hello | 20:32 |
| kanzure | Whysguy: howdy | 20:32 |
| sheena | hello! | 20:33 |
| delinquentme | so then how to minimize DNA damage? | 20:33 |
| Whysguy | Hello . . . My friend sent me here. My friend is the one typing this message. | 20:33 |
| yashgaroth | intracellular DNA or what? | 20:33 |
| kanzure | coercion is a great basis for friendship | 20:33 |
| Whysguy | So this nick represents two people. | 20:33 |
| cluckj | that's fuckin deep | 20:33 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, yeah | 20:34 |
| kanzure | Whysguy: are you the electrophysiology person, or are you the haitian clandestine mice breeder? | 20:34 |
| yashgaroth | if cells are alive they'll be minimizing DNA damage, I'm sure you can get a couple people in here to go on about antioxidants and shit to prevent damage, but cells will handle it well in the timescales you can keep them alive in cell culture | 20:35 |
| Whysguy | He is trying to learn about Linux and I am about to leave, but I don't want to leave him with questions. | 20:35 |
| catern | kanzure: god both those people sound so interesting | 20:36 |
| kanzure | catern: yeah it's a circus in here.. | 20:36 |
| catern | some day with luck I will be that interesting | 20:36 |
| delinquentme | paperbot, http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v20/n3/full/nm.3464.html | 20:36 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnm.3464 | 20:36 |
| Whysguy | I have brought him here because this is a great community to ask questions. He is practising asking questions. The linux channels require registering nick, he has not done that yet. But. I need to go work on a lab. | 20:37 |
| kanzure | and which one are you? | 20:38 |
| cluckj | catern, are you boring? | 20:38 |
| catern | cluckj: i'm hoping that i'm becoming less boring recently. i think i may be boring at the moment. however i have high standards because of who i spend time around, e.g. the people here | 20:39 |
| dcary | Asking questions in a way that elicits useful answers is surprisingly difficult. It takes a lot of practice. | 20:40 |
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| kanzure | .title http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v20/n3/full/nm.3464.html | 20:41 |
| yoleaux | Rejuvenation of the muscle stem cell population restores strength to injured aged muscles | 20:41 |
| cluckj | catern, why do you think you're boring right now? | 20:41 |
| kanzure | cluckj: are you channeling eliza? | 20:41 |
| cluckj | no, channeling gradstudentbot | 20:42 |
| gradstudentbot | Dropped my sample. | 20:42 |
| kanzure | typical | 20:42 |
| cluckj | Where are the hot plates? | 20:43 |
| catern | cluckj: causally? because people were just mentioning really interesting people, and i was comparing myself to them | 20:43 |
| cluckj | Well, it looks better if you see it through a UV scope. | 20:43 |
| kanzure | cluckj: there's a little bit of gradstudentbot inside all of us | 20:44 |
| gradstudentbot | This laproscopic camera is so easy to use. | 20:44 |
| cluckj | there is a lot of grad student in me | 20:44 |
| cluckj | catern, okay | 20:45 |
| catern | cluckj: is there a proportional amount of bot? | 20:45 |
| cluckj | sadly, yes | 20:46 |
| kanzure | cluckj is 80% insulin pump by mass | 20:46 |
| cluckj | hey I gained some weight recently so it's like 77% now | 20:47 |
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| cluckj | I think I'm back at 150 D: | 20:51 |
| cluckj | thanks Eli Lilly and Ben & Jerry's | 20:51 |
| kanzure | i should write more material for gradstudentbot | 20:54 |
| gradstudentbot | I need to read that paper soon. | 20:54 |
| justanotheruser | cluckj: how tall are you if 150 is fat? | 20:54 |
| justanotheruser | You should allow us to add entries | 20:54 |
| cluckj | I'm 6' tall | 20:54 |
| kanzure | i am accepting entries, but really it's just a giant text file | 20:55 |
| cluckj | 150 is not fat at all | 20:55 |
| cluckj | I still need to gain 10-15 more lbs | 20:55 |
| kanzure | he is fat on the inside | 20:55 |
| cluckj | lol | 20:55 |
| justanotheruser | Oh I see | 20:55 |
| justanotheruser | I thought you were upset because of the D: | 20:55 |
| cluckj | yes, I am | 20:56 |
| justanotheruser | You're upset that you're gaining weight? | 20:56 |
| cluckj | I'm upset that I'm not gaining it faster | 20:56 |
| yashgaroth | have you tried food | 21:00 |
| cluckj | o_o | 21:00 |
| cluckj | holy shit that's a good idea | 21:00 |
| yashgaroth | just like chug a bottle of olive oil, go nuts | 21:00 |
| cluckj | my butthole isn't liking that idea | 21:01 |
| yashgaroth | just show it who's boss | 21:02 |
| yashgaroth | or move to the south for a year, that seems to work magic | 21:02 |
| kanzure | next time on irc m.d.: butt problems | 21:02 |
| kanzure | "just install the neosphincter, how bad could it be?" | 21:02 |
| cluckj | hahaha | 21:03 |
| yashgaroth | with new sphinctumab™, I'm in control of my butthole, free to live life my way | 21:04 |
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| kanzure | life is like a rowboat, gentle but streaming, something something statements not evaluated by the FDA | 21:06 |
| Technicus | Whysguy: What's goin on over there? | 21:06 |
| yashgaroth | may cause irreversible loss of sphincter, consult your doctor | 21:06 |
| cluckj | lol | 21:09 |
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| cluckj | with this video playing during the voiceover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHzqXyewgRw | 21:13 |
| kanzure | "commerce control list, 2014" 30 MB | 21:13 |
| kanzure | "commerce control list, 2013" 158 MB | 21:14 |
| kanzure | what happened? | 21:14 |
| jrayhawk | the amount of fat you can take depends on how beefy your gal bladder is and how much soluable fiber you throw down there with it | 21:18 |
| jrayhawk | that said, usually protein excess is how people ramp up IGF-1 signaling | 21:19 |
| jrayhawk | or possibly use exogenous IGF-1, though i don't think there's supposed to be an intracellular pathway for that, so if it works, you've got other problems | 21:20 |
| jrayhawk | absorption pathway, that is | 21:22 |
| AshleyWaffle | http://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/24fjb0/writing_prompt_frozen_scifi_w_bitcoin_prize/ | 21:23 |
| kanzure | no redditz | 21:23 |
| catern | rationalist frozen, perfect | 21:24 |
| cluckj | my gallbladder is probably fine based on the high amounts of fat and fiber I eat | 21:25 |
| cluckj | not fine enough to handle a bottle of oil | 21:25 |
| cluckj | :) | 21:25 |
| jrayhawk | now i want to take the half-quart challenge | 21:25 |
| cluckj | ew | 21:26 |
| jrayhawk | if only i even halfwy trusted the olive oil industry to actually put olive oil in the things they advertise as olive oil | 21:26 |
| kanzure | record video evidence for uh, science | 21:26 |
| cluckj | yes. | 21:26 |
| cluckj | videotape that | 21:26 |
| gradstudentbot | I think I'll be done in 6 years. | 21:27 |
| kanzure | hrmm | 21:28 |
| kanzure | so i'm trying to diff the commerce control list between each year | 21:30 |
| kanzure | to see which technologies have been added or removed (haha like anything is ever removed) | 21:30 |
| kanzure | except the older archives don't seem to include title 15 of the "electronic code of federal regulations" | 21:30 |
| kanzure | http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=42852290e804a04592520fb67c85a987&node=15:2.1.3.4.45&rgn=div5 | 21:31 |
| kanzure | "Crude oil described by ECCN 1C981 (Crude petroleum, including reconstituted crude petroleum, tar sands, and crude shale oil listed in Supplement No. 1 to this part). For specific licensing requirements for these items, see §754.2 of this part." | 21:32 |
| kanzure | "Advance notification of exports. You must notify BIS at least 45 calendar days prior to exporting any quantity of a Schedule 1 chemical listed in Supplement No. 1 to this part to another State Party. This is in addition to the requirement to obtain an export license under the EAR for chemicals controlled by ECCN 1C350 or 1C351 for any reason for control, or from the Department of State for Schedule 1 chemicals controlled under the ITAR. Note ... | 21:33 |
| kanzure | ... that such notifications may be sent to BIS prior to or after submission of a license application to BIS for Schedule 1 chemicals controlled subject to the EAR and under ECCNs 1C350 or 1C351 or to the Department of State for Schedule 1 chemicals controlled on the ITAR. Such notices must be submitted separately from license applications." | 21:33 |
| kanzure | oh look they are kind enough to give you a list of interesting chemicals: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=42852290e804a04592520fb67c85a987&node=15:2.1.3.4.29&rgn=div5 | 21:34 |
| kanzure | "Chemicals, except for those listed in Schedule 1, containing a phosphorus atom to which is bonded one methyl, ethyl or propyl (normal or iso) group but not further carbon atoms," | 21:34 |
| kanzure | i wonder if any of these are present in human metabolism or gut bacteria metabolism | 21:35 |
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| kanzure | "b. Equipment capable of automatically correcting speed-of-sound propagation errors for calculation of a point" | 21:43 |
| kanzure | geeze wtf "d.4. “Specially designed” to maintain the alignment of phased array or phased segment mirror systems consisting of mirrors with a segment diameter or major axis length of 1 m or more;" | 21:44 |
| kanzure | "X-ray tomography systems for three dimensional defect inspection;" | 21:46 |
| kanzure | there is a lot of crap on this list | 21:46 |
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| kanzure | wow one year it was reduced by 0.1 MB | 22:05 |
| sheena | i want to invent a helmet that fits on a dog that holds a can of that cheese Easy Cheese , that has some kind of lever so when you press a remote button, it squeezes the tip and the cheese comes out into the dog's mouth | 22:10 |
| kanzure | if it was just a push tube, you could have a mechanism that pushes from the "bottom" (probably the top) of the can so that the material has to go out the nozzle | 22:13 |
| sheena | true. not useful? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | well you could just open up the easy cheese and put it into another can | 22:14 |
| justanotheruser | Thoughts on darkmarket/open bazaar? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | "Rather, the can contains a piston and a barrier plastic cap which squeezes the cheese through the nozzle in a solid column when the nozzle is pressed and the propellant expands in volume. The propellant, therefore, does not mix with the cheese. This explains why the can has a small rubber plug on its base. Normal aerosol cans are charged with all of their contents through the single opening at the top, but spray cheese cans are separately ... | 22:16 |
| kanzure | ... charged with the product through the top and propellant through the bottom. The can design also ensures that the cheese can be dispensed with the can upright or inverted." | 22:16 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: haven't looked at the technical implementation | 22:16 |
| justanotheruser | Okay | 22:16 |
| kanzure | sheena: how much do you have to press and in what direction | 22:17 |
| sheena | kanzure: the tip needs to move maybe 3/4" or a bit more? and in any direction off centre? | 22:18 |
| kanzure | and you put a straw into the dog's cheek or something? | 22:18 |
| sheena | sure, or just have it set up so as it comes out, it hits their nose or face.. once they figure that out, they'll lick it | 22:20 |
| kanzure | i'm sure there's a simpler way to do this, but you could have a servo with a metal bar that hits the tip | 22:22 |
| kanzure | s/hits/pushes against | 22:22 |
| kanzure | so one half turn to start feeding, one half turn to stop feeding | 22:27 |
| kanzure | in the opposite direction | 22:27 |
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| kanzure | "all of which are subject to the export licensing authority of the U.S. Department of State, Office of Defense Trade Controls. (See 22 CFR parts 120 through 130.)" | 22:36 |
| kanzure | argh there are other control lists? | 22:36 |
| kanzure | "Exports of unclassified technical data" "(a) License. A license (DSP-5) is required for the export of unclassified technical data unless the export is exempt from the licensing requirements of this subchapter. In the case of a plant visit, details of the proposed discussions must be transmitted to the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls for an appraisal of the technical data. Seven copies of the technical data or the details of the ... | 22:37 |
| kanzure | ... discussion must be provided." | 22:38 |
| kanzure | wow "Patents. A license issued by the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls is required for the export of technical data whenever the data exceeds that which is used to support a domestic filing of a patent application or to support a foreign filing of a patent application whenever no domestic application has been filed." | 22:38 |
| kanzure | whaaat "Disclosures. Unless otherwise expressly exempted in this subchapter, a license is required for the oral, visual or documentary disclosure of technical data by U.S. persons to foreign persons. A license is required regardless of the manner in which the technical data is transmitted (e.g., in person, by telephone, correspondence, electronic means, etc.)." | 22:39 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:49 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:50 | |
| kanzure | "Framing cameras with recording rates greater than 225,000 frames per second" | 23:01 |
| kanzure | "0A981 Equipment designed for the execution of human beings as follows (see List of Items Controlled)." | 23:09 |
| fenn | it's my birthday and my kickstarter toys still aren't here | 23:15 |
| fenn | The mean length of the year is 365.2425 days; this is within one ppm of the current length of the mean tropical year (365.24219 days), and even closer to the current vernal equinox year of 365.2424 days that it aims to match. (i just want to know what number to put in my script!) | 23:23 |
| -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 23:26 | |
| fenn | that's not even close to siderealyear = 365.256360417 | 23:29 |
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| fenn | screw it, i'm 1.01 gigaseconds | 23:50 |
| delinquentme | ok need novelty | 23:56 |
| -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bprzwysdlpozcvmk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 23:56 | |
| delinquentme | something different from 4chan | 23:56 |
| fenn | meditate | 23:58 |
| --- Log closed Thu May 01 00:00:56 2014 | ||
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