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| fenn | i guess this is my birthday present: http://fennetic.net/irc/principles_of_naval_weapons_systems.jpg | 01:05 |
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| fenn | "does it matter where each of the 2 wires are placed" you want to align the electric field with the electret orientation of the crystal, so having wires at opposite diagonals would probably behave differently. i'm not really sure what would happen, if anything. maybe you'd get a sqrt(2) reduction on intensity for the same voltage | 01:34 |
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| AshleyWaffle | http://mentalfloss.com/article/30616/could-humans-hibernate | 03:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | http://www.livescience.com/33053-can-humans-hibernate-suspended-animation.html | 03:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/04/could-people-hibernate-lemurs-give-clues/ | 03:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | apparently it hasnt been tested on humans because of "ethical" concerns | 03:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | any diy'ers done it? | 03:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | tl;dr inducing hibernation via hydrogen sulfide | 03:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | possibly possible in humans, untested because of "ethics" | 03:14 |
| mosasaur | But the stench AshleyWaffle, wouldn't it be unbearable? | 03:16 |
| AshleyWaffle | i dont know | 03:18 |
| AshleyWaffle | would it? | 03:18 |
| AshleyWaffle | besides that you instantly lose consciousness anyway, so irrelevant | 03:18 |
| AshleyWaffle | in the successful attempts, metabolism slowed and stuff | 03:18 |
| AshleyWaffle | similar to suspended animation | 03:18 |
| AshleyWaffle | not totally, but better than now | 03:18 |
| AshleyWaffle | i can imagine people who'd prefer to be cryo'd now but the law keeps them doing this as an alternative | 03:19 |
| mosasaur | I was just hoping there might be a more dignified way. | 03:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | become single, do a job a month to maintain the super basic rent, meditate | 03:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | mosasaur: inject? | 03:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | oh wait its a gas | 03:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | then no | 03:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | you could breathe through mouth instead tho | 03:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | you also cant leave it on | 03:20 |
| AshleyWaffle | youd have to cycle with air i think | 03:20 |
| AshleyWaffle | after a certain number of hours | 03:20 |
| AshleyWaffle | er not meditate | 03:20 |
| AshleyWaffle | meant hibernate | 03:20 |
| AshleyWaffle | lol | 03:20 |
| mosasaur | I personally lean towards stasis fields, but it might be more a faith of the heart thing. | 03:22 |
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| mosasaur | Unordered lists are a byeffect of the hashing paradigm, once we have practical interprocess communication and object sharing worked out, having lists be automatically ordered will be more natural. Not to mention the option of finally having a bitarray mapped set type available with minimal effort. | 03:34 |
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| * mosasaur goes into fourfire mode | 04:29 | |
| mosasaur | < fenn> if "immutable deep structures exist in all cultures" aren't genetic, then where did they come from? Too bad you didn't read Castaneda, it's all here under foreign installation http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique/gnosticastaneda/CCgnosis.php | 04:31 |
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| * mosasaur back in real time | 04:52 | |
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| * heath waves gm | 06:16 | |
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| fenn | mmm the delicious taste of export-controlled cheese | 06:29 |
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| cluckj | mmmm cheese | 06:54 |
| cluckj | fenn, http://www.amazon.com/The-Life-Cheese-Crafting-California/dp/0520270185/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399038868&sr=8-1 | 06:54 |
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| kanzure | "Although vendors often tell customers they can’t remove hard coded passwords from their devices or take other steps to secure their systems because it would require them to take the systems back to the FDA for approval afterward, Erven points out that the FDA guidelines for medical equipment includes a cybersecurity clause that allows a post-market device to be patched without requiring recertification by the FDA." | 07:25 |
| xmj | heh that's just the vendor being to lazy to properly implement customer support prodecures | 07:26 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.wired.com/2014/04/hospital-equipment-vulnerable/ | 07:26 |
| yoleaux | It’s Insanely Easy to Hack Hospital Equipment | 07:26 |
| cluckj | my pump is apparently pretty vulnerable too | 07:27 |
| kanzure | "They found a number of infusion pumps that have a web administration interface for nurses to change drug dosage levels from their workstations. Some of the systems are not password-protected, while others have hardcoded passwords that are weak and universal to all customers." | 07:27 |
| kanzure | "Last spring, the FDA and DHS issued a notice to the health care industry about problems with hard-coded passwords in medical devices after two researchers found them in about 300 medical devices, including ventilators, pumps, defibrillators and surgical and anesthesia devices." | 07:27 |
| kanzure | https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-13-164-01 | 07:27 |
| kanzure | http://www.databreachtoday.com/medical-device-vulnerability-alert-issued-a-5847 | 07:28 |
| kanzure | so what is the fda medical device review period for if they're not actually checking this shit? | 07:28 |
| cluckj | probably stalling products to make a bunch of money on stock options | 07:29 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidance/GuidanceDocuments/ucm077812.htm | 07:29 |
| yoleaux | Cybersecurity for Networked Medical Devices Containing Off-the-Shelf (OTS) Software | 07:30 |
| kanzure | cluckj: have you dumped the software from your insulin pump? you should do this. | 07:33 |
| cluckj | not yet | 07:33 |
| cluckj | I'll just wait for the company to release a firmware update and snarf that | 07:34 |
| kanzure | they make you personally apply the firmware updates? nice | 07:34 |
| kanzure | .ud snarf | 07:35 |
| kanzure | .u snarf | 07:36 |
| yoleaux | No characters found | 07:36 |
| cluckj | lol | 07:36 |
| kanzure | ud is supposed to be urban dictionary | 07:36 |
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| fenn | cluckj: is "the life of cheese" like that daft punk tomato sauce video http://youtube.com/watch?v=uURB-vo9rZ4 | 08:04 |
| cluckj | yes | 08:05 |
| cluckj | but cheesier | 08:08 |
| fenn | yesterday i was so zzorped out of my skull, i was basically running on autopilot. i went back and looked at what i wrote and it all pretty much made sense, except for a few sense inversion errors like omitting "not" | 08:11 |
| fenn | i still hate databases, yes | 08:11 |
| cluckj | lol | 08:11 |
| fenn | i guess that's what it feels like to be a migrating vulture and fly from brazil to cuba with half your brain asleep | 08:12 |
| gradstudentbot | Should I still be wearing gloves? | 08:15 |
| fenn | big story in "science" the magazine/journal: continuous graphene monolayers can be synthesized by epitaxial growth on a germanium coated silicon wafer, easily detached without tearing or distortion, and the wafer can be re-used: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2014/04/02/science.1252268.DC1/Lee.SM.pdf (supp material basically as good as the article) | 08:18 |
| fenn | http://www.sciencemag.org/content/329/5996/1188.abstract?sid=f67ce118-a8d1-4627-826b-db4bb29bf0a4 | 08:18 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.1192907 | 08:18 |
| fenn | it's such a simple process (1% solution of CH4 in H2 on Ge on Si) that it's hard to believe nobody had figured it out before now | 08:19 |
| fenn | the next page has an article about using graphene wafers for high rate but high "efficiency" filtering of water or other chemicals (infinite efficiency really) | 08:20 |
| fenn | er, s/wafers/perforated films/ | 08:21 |
| xentrac | efficiency here is measured by the ratio between the Carnot energy needed to reduce the entropy by the amount they achieve, and the actual energy consumed? | 08:21 |
| fenn | no, efficiency in filters is the percentage of particulates you want to remove (or whatever you're trying to filter out) | 08:22 |
| mosasaur | if we only could origami these wafers into diamonds | 08:22 |
| xentrac | oh | 08:22 |
| fenn | mosasaur: but graphene is better than diamond? well, different | 08:22 |
| fenn | anyway you can CVD diamond too, juri_ is attempting that | 08:23 |
| ebowden | https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/labs/Nedergaard-Lab/publications/pdfs/Astrocytic-Complexity.pdf | 08:23 |
| fenn | Epitaxial Growth of Single Crystal Diamond on Silicon Paperback | 08:24 |
| fenn | by Philip W. Morrison Jr | 08:24 |
| mosasaur | I was thinking of leaving a few strategic holes in the graphene layer and fold it up by the lines | 08:24 |
| fenn | er, a diamond is a 2d shape though | 08:25 |
| fenn | maybe you meant pyramids or octahedrons | 08:25 |
| mosasaur | yeah it's a bit like converting a go-board to 3d | 08:26 |
| mosasaur | from 4 liberties to 6 | 08:26 |
| mosasaur | it needs some very complex folding | 08:27 |
| fenn | i saw a diamond lattice go board with origami "stones" | 08:28 |
| fenn | that probably ticks all your boxes | 08:28 |
| mosasaur | well how many liberties does graphene have? | 08:29 |
| fenn | jeez how did duck duck go not find this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_variants#Other_than_2D | 08:30 |
| fenn | graphene has 3 | 08:30 |
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| mosasaur | and diamond? | 08:30 |
| fenn | 4 | 08:30 |
| fenn | the magical mystical hybridized sp2 double bond, where is it? what is it? | 08:33 |
| mosasaur | so building tetrahedrons from a triangular wafer | 08:33 |
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| fenn | but that's the dual of the diamond bond structure (faces of tetrahedron are perpendicular to edges/bonds in diamond) | 08:34 |
| fenn | i need to make a model out of straws | 08:35 |
| mosasaur | nah just draw me a sketch | 08:35 |
| fenn | just look at the go page | 08:35 |
| mosasaur | OK | 08:36 |
| mosasaur | wow that 3d board is infested with bats | 08:36 |
| fenn | respect your elders | 08:37 |
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| fenn | not just any bats, time traveling bats from another dimension | 08:37 |
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| mosasaur | they're partly folded suliban tetras | 08:38 |
| fenn | was that some kind of star trek reference? | 08:39 |
| mosasaur | it seems we'd have to convert all the 60 degree angles to 90 | 08:39 |
| mosasaur | lob says you know | 08:40 |
| fenn | who is lob? | 08:40 |
| mosasaur | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6b%27s_theorem | 08:41 |
| mosasaur | .title | 08:41 |
| yoleaux | mosasaur: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 08:41 |
| fenn | what geometry is that http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Suliban_cell_ship_(spherical) | 08:42 |
| fenn | two cross sections are hexagons and one is an octahedron? | 08:43 |
| gradstudentbot | I.. I don't think this chart is accurate. | 08:43 |
| fenn | gah stupid wikipedia equations | 08:44 |
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| mosasaur | I was meant more metaphorical, I don't actually now any math | 08:45 |
| fenn | lob's theorem says "if lob's theorem says it's true, it's true" so it's true | 08:47 |
| fenn | seems to be the gist of it | 08:47 |
| mosasaur | A bit like if you can simulate a chess engine really well, you have a chess engine | 08:47 |
| fenn | i don't like these sort of "what is 'is' anyway, can we ever really know anything" philosophical tail-chasing exercises | 08:49 |
| mosasaur | you should make a database of things you don't like | 08:51 |
| kanzure | why? | 08:52 |
| mosasaur | because it would be self-referential | 08:52 |
| kanzure | that's a bad reason | 08:52 |
| fenn | .py x='x=%s;x%%repr(x)';x%repr(x) | 08:53 |
| fenn | yoleaux is busy | 08:53 |
| fenn | doing bot stuff, you know | 08:53 |
| kanzure | i think this batch of adderall is bad | 08:55 |
| fenn | no, it's the woodpecker signal, not the adderall | 08:56 |
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| kanzure | huh? | 08:56 |
| kanzure | either the batch of adderall is bad, or someone is hogging all the computational capacity. probably the mathematicians today. | 08:57 |
| fenn | what happens when the adderall is bad? | 08:58 |
| fenn | yoleaux stops calculating? | 08:59 |
| kanzure | same thing as if not taking adderall | 08:59 |
| kanzure | basically, think of delinquentme | 08:59 |
| fenn | extremely powerful, over 10 MW in some cases, and broadcast in the shortwave radio bands. They appeared without warning, sounding like a sharp, repetitive tapping noise at 10 Hz, which led to it being nicknamed the Russian Woodpecker. The random frequency hops disrupted legitimate broadcast, amateur radio, irc chatbots, commercial aviation communications, utility transmissions, and resulted in | 09:00 |
| fenn | thousands of complaints by many countries worldwide. | 09:00 |
| fenn | and many amateur computer hackers | 09:00 |
| fenn | see also: cobra mist, global mind control, HAARP, the philadelphia experiment, montauk, and the number 23 | 09:01 |
| kanzure | pfft still amateur | 09:01 |
| fenn | they must have chosen that suliban cell ship design so it could be constructed out of legos | 09:04 |
| fenn | if we're going to use hieroglyphics, why can't all equations look like this: (apologies in advance to kanzure) http://yudkowsky.net/assets/44/LobsTheorem.pdf?1323322713 | 09:05 |
| mosasaur | they'd make great sensory deprivations tanks | 09:06 |
| fenn | mosasaur: do you have any interests of your own? | 09:06 |
| mosasaur | nah, I'm parasitic | 09:07 |
| mosasaur | but I share | 09:07 |
| fenn | through repeated host-parasite interactions an eventual symbiosis can occur | 09:08 |
| kanzure | that's his way of saying he wants to be your friend | 09:08 |
| fenn | it's my way of justifying not calling for bannination | 09:09 |
| kanzure | yeah i was actually wondering if i should get out the banhammer | 09:09 |
| kanzure | but i would have to write down an elaborate line of reasoning | 09:09 |
| kanzure | and i don't feel capable of that at the moment | 09:09 |
| fenn | the responsibility, it is heavy | 09:09 |
| kanzure | it's curious that you came to the same conclusion | 09:10 |
| mosasaur | I don't mind, I am who I am, many other channels | 09:10 |
| fenn | it's interesting to think of people on the internet as occupying trophic niches | 09:10 |
| kanzure | it's just energy gradients | 09:11 |
| cluckj | lol | 09:11 |
| fenn | carnivore = plagiarism, autotroph = blogger, herbivore = aggregator, bacteria = irc | 09:11 |
| fenn | or something | 09:12 |
| kanzure | that is too specifc, read more salthe or kauffman | 09:12 |
| kanzure | http://www.nbi.dk/~natphil/salthe/ | 09:12 |
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| cluckj | sounds like that dude would be fun to get drunk with | 09:13 |
| fenn | " I am a critic of Darwinian evolutionary theory -- which was my own erstwhile field of specialization in biology. My opposition is fundamentally to its sole reliance on competition as an explanatory principle" | 09:13 |
| fenn | "[natural selection] it appears capable of explaining almost anything, and so we need to be cautious about its use. Is it a Borgesian cognitive poison?" | 09:14 |
| cluckj | yeah | 09:15 |
| cluckj | that's the jam | 09:15 |
| fenn | slather it on, with labNEH | 09:15 |
| cluckj | epistemologically untrustworthy theories | 09:15 |
| fenn | .g labneh | 09:15 |
| yoleaux | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strained_yogurt | 09:15 |
| fenn | is he a deathist? "I postulate this decline to result from an increased rigidity imposed upon systems by information overload, thus interpreting senescence fundamentally as a general constraint of materiality." | 09:19 |
| cluckj | no? | 09:20 |
| fenn | some people think exponentials are just sigmoids plotted on a vertical scale that's too small | 09:23 |
| fenn | either we will be constrained by the speed of light or the heat death of the universe | 09:26 |
| fenn | bleh i can't read any more salthe | 09:27 |
| kanzure | well it's better than blogovores or whatever | 09:27 |
| fenn | is superkuh's tagline "i enjoy dissipating local energy gradients" based on salthe? | 09:28 |
| superkuh | No. | 09:28 |
| kanzure | iirc no, it's more likely to be related to lipid membrane biophysics | 09:28 |
| fenn | or particle acceleration, heliophysics instrumentation or generally anything with a high rate of change in current? | 09:29 |
| superkuh | Lets put it this way: if I see a rock precariously suspended on a ledge, I enjoy pushing it over. Who doesn't? | 09:29 |
| kanzure | huh, a soldier of the church of discordia? | 09:30 |
| fenn | i will patiently wait and use it to smite my enemies | 09:30 |
| mosasaur | I'd rather leave some aji on the board, even play elsewhere | 09:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: okay how about this dude, http://web.ncf.ca/collier/ | 09:32 |
| superkuh | mosasaur, I'm very bad at go. I take dead groups just to minimize how much I have to think about. | 09:32 |
| kanzure | i wonder if stu kauffman has been doing anything interesting | 09:33 |
| kanzure | oh dear, his site just has a bunch of "neural circuits produce quantum coherence called consciousness", bleh | 09:35 |
| kanzure | that's very disappointing | 09:35 |
| fenn | and also wrong | 09:35 |
| fenn | neural circuits don't exhibit quantum coherence | 09:35 |
| @ParahSailin | landing at oakland in a bit | 09:36 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: go find Lemminkainen | 09:36 |
| kanzure | and juul | 09:36 |
| fenn | kanzure: is john collier just a random person you happen to be stalking? | 09:37 |
| kanzure | kinda, i also run into him in inconvenient ways on occasion | 09:38 |
| fenn | like when you are visiting durban south africa | 09:38 |
| kanzure | internet is stranger than you'd think | 09:39 |
| fenn | it's full of tubes! | 09:39 |
| kanzure | this is all wrong anyway, wasn't i supposed to be doing something else | 09:40 |
| fenn | so a zero day is a sharp energy gradient, what does an antivirus/security program do? | 09:40 |
| fenn | should i eat the petroleum cake | 09:41 |
| kanzure | not sure that's the right way to think about it.. the sploit unlocks information stored on computers that you otherwise didn't have access to. | 09:41 |
| fenn | so a zero day tunnels through a barrier to a sharp energy gradient | 09:42 |
| kanzure | i think the tunnel is the gradient, maybe? | 09:43 |
| fenn | ---^|__ | 09:43 |
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| fenn | but a zero day is also information that can be dissipated | 09:43 |
| kanzure | is that problematic? | 09:44 |
| fenn | no, it's just weird | 09:44 |
| kanzure | well you can feed on virus capsids if you had to | 09:45 |
| kanzure | not a lot of nutrition content (hardly any) | 09:45 |
| fenn | is that true? | 09:45 |
| fenn | i honestly have no idea | 09:45 |
| kanzure | .wik bacteriophage | 09:45 |
| yoleaux | "A bacteriophage[needs IPA] (informally, phage[needs IPA]) is a virus that infects and replicates within bacteria. The term is derived from 'bacteria' and the Greek φαγεῖν phagein "to devour". Bacteriophages are composed of proteins that encapsulate a DNA or RNA genome, and may have relatively simple or elaborate structures." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage | 09:45 |
| kanzure | oh, wrong direction | 09:45 |
| fenn | ok but i've never eaten a bowl of phagesauce | 09:46 |
| fenn | we ate fage at phage camp | 09:46 |
| kanzure | well maybe you're just not living | 09:46 |
| fenn | .g fage | 09:46 |
| yoleaux | http://usa.fage.eu/ | 09:46 |
| fenn | labNEH | 09:46 |
| fenn | alright, i'm going to try to dissipate the petroleum cake, call the police if i appear to be dead | 09:48 |
| kanzure | so that they can arrest you? | 09:49 |
| fenn | so they can pump my stomach and inject anti-cake chemicals into me or whatever | 09:49 |
| fenn | http://www.carvel.com/public/images/ice-cream-cakes/holiday-cakes/school-days-cake.jpg | 09:53 |
| fenn | http://www.carvel.com/public/images/ice-cream-cakes/carvelog-cakes/back-to-school-pencil-cake.jpg | 09:55 |
| fenn | they didn't even try to sharpen it | 09:55 |
| kanzure | aha, these pills are from actavis and not shire | 09:57 |
| @_archels | hope you still have a stock of the good ones | 10:00 |
| kanzure | how do they not test this stuff | 10:01 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ooo funny. | 10:01 |
| delinquentme | how does a company typically approach a researcher to be on its advisory board? | 10:01 |
| @_archels | kanzure: is it dated? | 10:02 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: usually with an offer of money or equity, and an "executive summary", probably from someone who knows the researcher. | 10:02 |
| delinquentme | ahh fuck | 10:03 |
| delinquentme | well | 10:03 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, you can't guarantee that. | 10:04 |
| kanzure | _archels: says it expires april 2015 | 10:04 |
| fenn | could it be counterfeit | 10:04 |
| fenn | do you have other actavis to compare it to | 10:05 |
| fenn | hint: weigh it | 10:05 |
| kanzure | i believe i have complained about manufacturer differences in the past | 10:05 |
| kanzure | i suspect if i go look it's going to be actavis | 10:05 |
| kanzure | i'll just have to avoid these assfucks | 10:05 |
| kanzure | good thing i'm not presently "mission critical", jeesh | 10:06 |
| kanzure | can't rely on anyone. might as well cook this shit on my onw. | 10:06 |
| kanzure | *own. | 10:06 |
| fenn | microfluidic time-release-amphetamine lab on a chip | 10:06 |
| fenn | i guess you could just swallow the chip | 10:07 |
| fenn | the "cake" turned out to be ice cream covered in icing, sitting on a bed of cocoa pebbles, not a cake at all | 10:08 |
| fenn | what will they think of next | 10:08 |
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| kanzure | probably other sugary methods of deceit | 10:26 |
| delinquentme | fenn, this is actually a really cool applications for a mini / cheap mass spec | 10:32 |
| delinquentme | TEST YO DRUGS | 10:32 |
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| delinquentme | Now im going back to trying to find nightmare cases or piggy ECM use in humans | 10:32 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: why are you not on a stimulant drug? | 10:32 |
| delinquentme | My fav is addies ... but I havn't pursued getting them consistently | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | I have like 1 backup 20mg sitting around for the day I need to save the world | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | but like cheap mass spec in the coke market? | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | BIG deal | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, are you sending me some? | 10:36 |
| kanzure | you didn't even answer my question | 10:36 |
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| delinquentme | I've not pursued it | 10:38 |
| delinquentme | I would if it were readily available | 10:38 |
| kanzure | go see a doctor | 10:39 |
| delinquentme | lolol | 10:43 |
| delinquentme | So if I want to find nightmare cases of what could go wrong with xenotransplantation | 10:43 |
| delinquentme | what should I search for | 10:43 |
| kanzure | xenotransplantation. | 10:44 |
| delinquentme | I could go in with individual terms " xenotransplantation + teraroma " etc ... but how about something more scalable? | 10:44 |
| kanzure | "No way, I love wearing a tux while I kill people. It makes me kind of feel like James Bond." | 10:47 |
| delinquentme | Say I have a number of cells in a piece of tissue. Is there a way to free those cells from the structural protein ... without damaging them? | 10:51 |
| Viper168 | if I had to kill people, in a suit is probably how I'd prefer to do it | 10:53 |
| Viper168 | :P | 10:53 |
| dingo | uh hmm | 10:53 |
| delinquentme | Do you guys know if anyone has attempted to make a microfluidic scaffold and grow 3d cell cultures within that scaffold | 10:57 |
| delinquentme | using the microfluidics as a way to control intracellular signaling? | 10:58 |
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| chris_99 | http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2014/05/solar-jet-fuel-made-out-thin-air | 11:43 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=de2c43f6 Bryan Bishop: more of the markram transcript | 12:05 |
| kanzure | there we go, | 12:05 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/markram-2006/ | 12:05 |
| kanzure | now nobody has to watch a silly video | 12:05 |
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| kanzure | "well what we want to do is build a CERN for the brain" | 12:14 |
| kanzure | "we have a 600 page roadmap" argh where is this | 12:15 |
| kanzure | _archels: gimme the document | 12:15 |
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| delinquentme | is there an android app that will let me download youtub videos and play locally ? | 12:25 |
| kanzure | use youtube-dl with python4android or something, who cares | 12:26 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/hbp-brain-charting/public | 12:26 |
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| kanzure | https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/participate/competitive-calls-programme | 12:43 |
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| kanzure | ""Double you tee eff?" you say, and start hunting for the problem. You discover that one day, some idiot decided that since another idiot decided that 1/0 should equal infinity, they could just use that as a shorthand for "Infinity" when simplifying their code. Then a non-idiot rightly decided that this was idiotic, which is what the original idiot should have decided, but since he didn't, the non-idiot decided to be a dick and make this a ... | 13:00 |
| kanzure | ... failing error in his new compiler. Then he decided he wasn't going to tell anyone that this was an error, because he's a dick, and now all your snowflakes are urine and you can't even find the cat." | 13:00 |
| kanzure | "You are an expert in all these technologies, and that's a good thing, because that expertise let you spend only six hours figuring out what went wrong, as opposed to losing your job. You now have one extra little fact to tuck away in the millions of little facts you have to memorize because so many of the programs you depend on are written by dicks and idiots." | 13:00 |
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| entelechios | hahaha kanzure i had read that one | 13:34 |
| entelechios | funny stuff | 13:34 |
| delinquentme | information gained from clinical trials ... is it published anywhere? | 13:35 |
| superkuh | http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/help/how-find/find-study-results might help. | 13:41 |
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| kanzure | .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0531.2009.01426.x/abstract | 15:59 |
| yoleaux | Ultrasound as a Mechanical Method for Male Dog Contraception | 15:59 |
| kanzure | perhaps not the greatest idea of all time? | 15:59 |
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| kanzure | oh, it is reversible in monkeys | 16:01 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1477-7827-10-81.pdf | 16:01 |
| paperbot | TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 825, in text) | 16:01 |
| kanzure | wut | 16:01 |
| juri_ | uh oh. i was invoked? | 16:03 |
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| xentrac | yay ultrasound temporary castration! | 16:38 |
| kanzure | the ~30 minute treatments do not sound useful | 16:40 |
| xentrac | maybe you could shrink your testicles during your daily commute | 16:40 |
| kanzure | do you actually commute anywhere? | 16:40 |
| xentrac | yeah | 16:40 |
| kanzure | gasp | 16:40 |
| xentrac | tomorrow no though | 16:40 |
| kanzure | see, i thought you were in brazil to escape things like that | 16:40 |
| xentrac | no, if I were in Brazil it would be to see the woman who keeps emailing me things like "Mas foi bem levinha, quase um beijinho na sua nuca (back of your neck?), uma carícia delicada..." despite never having met me | 16:43 |
| kanzure | sounds like an okay reason to go? | 16:43 |
| xentrac | have some stuff to finish up here first, so instead I think she'll probably visit me here first | 16:44 |
| xentrac | often I commute by bike | 16:46 |
| xentrac | how do you get the exercise you need? | 16:47 |
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| kanzure | xentrac: electrical stimulation of muscle tissue | 16:49 |
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| kanzure | (many exercises have a direct physiological consequence that can be invoked by other means) | 16:49 |
| kanzure | s/consequence/method | 16:49 |
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| kanzure | hrmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malariotherapy#Malariotherapy | 16:51 |
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| xentrac | kanzure: hmm, I thought that didn't work | 16:53 |
| kanzure | to be honest i haven't investigated completely, but i would be surprised if there's no workable method | 16:53 |
| kanzure | and if there is no workable method, then i wonder if electroporation or plasmid therapies would be able to introduce a viable method of exercise (or even muscle hypertrophy etc) without the use of large massy equipment or physical exertion. | 16:54 |
| kanzure | e.g., maybe introduce a pathway for cell membrane signaling bound to something that responds to some light frequency etc | 16:55 |
| kanzure | of course, for muscle hypertrophy, there's chemical interventions involving protein, hormones, steroids, mRNA inhibition, mRNA expression, etc.. | 16:56 |
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| xentrac | well, what results are you seeing? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | i am not actually stimulating muscle, i was hoping that you would let me interpret "how do you get the exercise you need?" in the general sense | 17:04 |
| kanzure | (in the absence of commuting by bikes) | 17:05 |
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| xentrac | heh | 17:08 |
| kanzure | "instrument engineer's handbook" (25 MB) http://lib.freescienceengineering.org/view.php?id=1155193 | 17:08 |
| xentrac | well, I really meant in your case specifically ;) | 17:08 |
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| kanzure | xentrac: also you may find this interesting, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/myostatin/yashgaroth-proposal/ | 17:18 |
| kanzure | xentrac: and here's a random pile of words, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/myostatin/notes/ | 17:18 |
| xentrac | while building muscle is potentially useful, it's not the only reason for exercising | 17:29 |
| xentrac | exercising also helps reduce anxiety and inflammation, for example | 17:29 |
| kanzure | there are tons of ways to reduce inflammation, and i am not sure that anxiety is all negative | 17:30 |
| xentrac | presumably if you're depending on adderall to keep you focused, your level of anxiety is superoptimal | 17:31 |
| xentrac | maybe that's not presumable | 17:31 |
| xentrac | is it presumable? | 17:31 |
| kanzure | wait, what? my level of anxiety on or off the drug? | 17:31 |
| xentrac | does the drug affect your anxiety noticeably? | 17:32 |
| kanzure | no, i have this weird form of anxiety that i seem to have on/off control over | 17:32 |
| kanzure | which persists when medicated and unmedicated with adderall | 17:32 |
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| xentrac | what's on/off control? you can turn it on and off at will? | 17:32 |
| kanzure | well, i should limit this to my cognitive phenomonology of whatever i know anxiety to be, rather than non-cognitive anxiety that i would, by definition, not really have access or awareness of | 17:33 |
| xentrac | I find that I am aware of many non-cognitive aspects of my experience | 17:34 |
| kanzure | i am fascinated by the idea of increasing anxiety in general | 17:34 |
| kanzure | most research is about making it go down, but lots of interesting brain things happen with increased anxiety, either as a cause or just a correlation | 17:35 |
| xentrac | so my experience with stimulants is that they don't reduce or increase anxiety so much as make it less distracting | 17:35 |
| xentrac | except caffeine of course | 17:35 |
| xentrac | but exercise does reduce anxiety, and that improves my life | 17:37 |
| xentrac | probably also lengthens it | 17:42 |
| kanzure | does protomold do one-offs? | 17:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.protolabs.com/protomold | 17:42 |
| kanzure | $1495/mold.. hrm. | 17:42 |
| gradstudentbot | Who has the latest version of the paper? | 17:44 |
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| kanzure | in violation of the no reddit rule: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24kbc0/im_patrick_byrne_a_profreedom_supporter_of/ | 18:06 |
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| xentrac | so btw | 18:21 |
| kanzure | sup | 18:21 |
| xentrac | this dude wrote up a technology tree in book form: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24jndm/i_am_the_author_of_the_knowledge_how_to_rebuild/?limit=500 | 18:21 |
| xentrac | I haven't read the book yet but if you do I'm really interested to hear more | 18:21 |
| xentrac | like, is it good? | 18:21 |
| kanzure | did you look at the book or are you just wasting my time | 18:21 |
| kanzure | sigh | 18:21 |
| kanzure | how is that any different from any other book that has similar content, and why aren't those books called a "technology tree in book form"? that's what i'm particulary curious about here. | 18:22 |
| xentrac | I've read a couple of chapters, and they're fantastic | 18:22 |
| xentrac | I haven't ever seen a similar book before | 18:23 |
| kanzure | what makes it a tree? | 18:23 |
| xentrac | he makes a great effort to make the dependencies between the different technologies explicit, not to depend on things that aren't in the book, and to topologically sort them | 18:24 |
| xentrac | although he compromises that by breaking it into chapters | 18:24 |
| kanzure | what is a topological sort? i did look at the book btw | 18:24 |
| xentrac | .wik topological sort | 18:24 |
| yoleaux | "In computer science, a topological sort (sometimes abbreviated topsort or toposort) or topological ordering of a directed graph is a linear ordering of its vertices such that for every directed edge uv from vertex u to vertex v, u comes before v in the ordering. For instance, the vertices of the graph may represent tasks to be performed, …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_sort | 18:24 |
| kanzure | for all the time i spent in a graph theory lab you'd think that i'd recognize that you were referring to an actual topological sort | 18:27 |
| xentrac | yeah, I was surprised by the question, but I didn't want to be the guy who's like "You don't know THAT?!" | 18:28 |
| xentrac | because those guys are fucking annoying | 18:28 |
| kanzure | i'm still skeptical of anything that is marketed in the format of a book | 18:29 |
| kanzure | if he was truly trying to make an actually useful technology tree, why would it require advertizing (like on a shit hole like reddit), or why would it have to even be a book instead of just data i download. argh. | 18:29 |
| xentrac | yeah, I'm not thrilled by the book format either | 18:31 |
| xentrac | but on the other hand, he's completed the book, while I haven't completed a non-book equivalent, so maybe the institutions of book publishing companies were helpful to him | 18:31 |
| kanzure | the one redeeming quality that i might be interested in would be something like, evidence of him applying these technologies or methods based only on the instructions in the book, to bootstrap a machine shop or other equipment | 18:33 |
| kanzure | and that might be forgivable in a narrative form | 18:33 |
| xentrac | he says he's tried a bunch of them | 18:34 |
| kanzure | individually, or in succession using only those things he described | 18:34 |
| xentrac | I think individually | 18:34 |
| xentrac | for example, he shot the author photo on the cover with a photographic emulsion he made himself from somewhat raw materials | 18:35 |
| kanzure | "individually" confers possible cheats, or cheats that he could have been unaware of, right? | 18:35 |
| xentrac | sure, but I really think you should be asking him these questions, on a shit hole like reddit, not me | 18:36 |
| kanzure | if his concept of technological bootstrapping requires me to ask him questions or to communicate with him over reddit, it's not for me | 18:36 |
| xentrac | haha | 18:37 |
| kanzure | i'm only critical because i care | 18:38 |
| xentrac | but you're not being critical; you're withholding your criticism because you don't like reddit | 18:40 |
| kanzure | why should i tell him my criticism? | 18:40 |
| xentrac | because yo ucare | 18:40 |
| kanzure | it's already apparent that his understanding of his work and mine are very different based on the choices he made | 18:40 |
| kanzure | and i would have to convince him that a book isn't the ideal format for representing civilizational technology in a repeatable way | 18:41 |
| kanzure | and then also convince him that he can make something better | 18:41 |
| kanzure | which i'm not sure about; i have no idea who he is or why i should invest that effort into him | 18:42 |
| xentrac | well, his work seems to be the best effort we have so far | 18:42 |
| xentrac | no? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | were you the one who mentioned not looking at the gingery books? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | *having not yet looked | 18:42 |
| kanzure | maybe wrong person | 18:42 |
| xentrac | I have looked at them, and I think they are excellent and indeed unparalleled in their niche | 18:43 |
| xentrac | although I no longer have them :( | 18:43 |
| xentrac | but they are in a very narrow niche | 18:43 |
| kanzure | so, as a metric of evaluating best effort, i would place something like the debian package repositories way way way higher than both of those works | 18:44 |
| kanzure | my wording is no good there | 18:44 |
| xentrac | the debian package repositories are indeed much higher quality | 18:44 |
| xentrac | but their niche is even more narrow than Gingery's series | 18:44 |
| kanzure | they are also on the same dimension as the type of technology you and i have in mind | 18:45 |
| kanzure | why is software narrow? | 18:45 |
| xentrac | because computers are still narrow | 18:45 |
| xentrac | Debian actually is even narrower than software | 18:45 |
| xentrac | Debian is basically "software written in C for Unix" | 18:45 |
| xentrac | most popular Java, Ruby, and C# libraries aren't in there | 18:46 |
| kanzure | i often say debian when i mean to refer its canonical implementation of not-completely-awful package management | 18:46 |
| xentrac | RubyGems is actually larger than Debian at this point | 18:46 |
| kanzure | xpkg (or whatever?) doesn't seem to be a good one yet (there was some sort of generic packaging system that was supposed to be platform agnostic? i dunno) | 18:46 |
| kanzure | rubygems being larger doesn't matter; you can trivially imagine a gem2deb tool that i don't care about. fpm can even do that, i bet. | 18:47 |
| kanzure | and besides, cpan should be larger than rubyforge | 18:47 |
| gradstudentbot | Should have gone to med school. | 18:47 |
| xentrac | rubyforge? who the fuck uses rubyforge? :) | 18:47 |
| kanzure | gemfury? | 18:48 |
| kanzure | it's been like, a month since i've done anything with ruby | 18:48 |
| xentrac | .g gemfury | 18:48 |
| yoleaux | https://gemfury.com/ | 18:48 |
| xentrac | .wik gemfuy | 18:48 |
| kanzure | "RubyForge will be shutting down on May 15 2014." | 18:48 |
| yoleaux | xentrac: Sorry, I couldn't find article. | 18:48 |
| xentrac | .wik gemfury | 18:48 |
| yoleaux | xentrac: Sorry, I couldn't find article. | 18:48 |
| xentrac | oh, apparently the RubyForge maintainers agree with me | 18:48 |
| kanzure | gemfury is just a private-language-specific-package-repositories-as-a-service thing | 18:48 |
| xentrac | :'( | 18:48 |
| xentrac | but so far a robot that could produce photographic emulsions on demand from raw materials is pretty far from available | 18:49 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure that's the right solution | 18:49 |
| xentrac | in fact it's not even clear what kind of computer system would significantly ease or simplify the process for photographic emulsion making that he describes in the book | 18:50 |
| kanzure | in many cases you can assume there is a human present, but then you have to figure out how to write instructions for both robo-compatible and human-compatible stuff to make packages happen | 18:50 |
| xentrac | well, other than maybe something to display a text file that has the text of his book chapter in it | 18:50 |
| kanzure | "your package download is only complete once your ordered parts arrive, or if you choose to make the parts yourself, once they are made and placed in the space designated for those parts intake" | 18:51 |
| kanzure | there was a format i was experimenting with that was able to use human kinematics as a rough estimate for the range of motions that i can assume a human effector to provide | 18:51 |
| kanzure | realistically, no matter what, i am not going to be able to convince many hardware package maintainers not to write large amounts of plaintext documentation :( | 18:51 |
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| kanzure | debian packages would not be useful if i had to type in the source code to every single one every time i wanted to run the programs, or something | 18:53 |
| kanzure | as the size of the repository scales, my ability to do things would be limited by my linear rate of text entry | 18:53 |
| kanzure | (i have skipped over the problem of figuring out "order vs. build" and the problem of "what thing is roughly equivalent and could be used instead of the exact product that could be ordered from this very specific supplier") | 18:54 |
| @heath | https://angel.co/nashville | 18:56 |
| @heath | #2 nashville in nashville | 18:56 |
| @heath | #2 in nashville :P | 18:56 |
| @heath | ^ beer induced commenting | 18:56 |
| @heath | @hacknashville | 18:56 |
| kanzure | also there's a curious concept of homomorphism where if there is some set of manual actions that can produce a product, that therefore there should always be a set of automation tools that you could setup to produce the thing automatically; but automatic conversion of instructions or plans into the automatic format is a curious problem that i haven't seen approached yet. there are some weird products from dassault that do related things but i ... | 18:56 |
| @heath | working on an ipython for node.js | 18:56 |
| kanzure | ... haven't played with them.. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | pls skip the ipython readline bugs | 18:57 |
| kanzure | oh actually, i wonder if i could just use cython/ctypes to bind to an actually usable version of readline and distribute that with ipython, instead of hoping ipython accepts my bugfix | 18:57 |
| kanzure | i lied, apparently i did ruby things yesterday | 19:03 |
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| xentrac | kanzure: there was a time when many people used computers by typing in the source code to every single program every time they wanted to run the programs | 19:14 |
| xentrac | that was clearly less useful | 19:14 |
| xentrac | but it was still a great deal easier than writing the programs from scratch | 19:14 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, it should take me about 2 days. | 19:17 |
| kanzure | hrm "An alphabeticized list of almost 50,000 scientists" http://www.scientistsdb.com/index.php?title=Category:Scientist | 19:19 |
| kanzure | oh it is a dump from wikipedia? | 19:20 |
| kanzure | that's boring | 19:21 |
| kanzure | http://www.chemconnector.com/2011/11/17/why-are-pornstars-more-notable-than-scientists-on-wikipedia/ | 19:22 |
| kanzure | http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/further-reading-by-chapter/ | 19:33 |
| xentrac | yeah | 19:33 |
| xentrac | here's my question for him: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24jndm/i_am_the_author_of_the_knowledge_how_to_rebuild/ch892wh | 19:33 |
| xentrac | also related is http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/2014/03/similar-projects/ | 19:36 |
| kanzure | i am not convinced ("yours is the first serious attempt I've seen to create a practical technology tree for real life.") | 19:38 |
| dingo | 01:56 < kanzure> pls skip the ipython readline bugs │ | 19:38 |
| dingo | i have the ear of an ipython dev | 19:38 |
| dingo | i maintain another project | 19:38 |
| dingo | readline is probobly using gnu/readline, you know | 19:38 |
| dingo | so its not really in their control, likely | 19:38 |
| dingo | i know -- i'd like readline to be provided by a telnet server | 19:38 |
| dingo | but its not possible without allocating a pty, since gnu/readline wants a terminal like that | 19:38 |
| kanzure | xentrac: also, could you elaborate on what it was in fire upon the deep? i don't remember that from the book. | 19:38 |
| dingo | that is i mean, i maintain a project together with one of the ipython devs, i could get your bugfix attention i'm sure | 19:39 |
| kanzure | dingo: https://github.com/ipython/ipython/pull/2895 | 19:39 |
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| xentrac | see also http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/bibliography/ | 19:39 |
| dingo | yup takluyver :-) | 19:40 |
| kanzure | xentrac: if he just says "i hate my readers, and therefore i will not release my content as a wiki", you are a little bit screwed | 19:40 |
| dingo | never knew ^G cancelled ^R... must be why lynx choses ^G to cancel retrieving web pages | 19:43 |
| xentrac | kanzure: oh, there were people who were responsible for designing technology trees to take back to primitive civilizations. I don't remember what they were called. surely their profession was part of astrobiology | 19:43 |
| xentrac | dingo: ^G is Emacs's quit command | 19:43 |
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| kanzure | dingo: i think i might have dropped a production db once with a faulty ^R in ipython. yes i should use ^G. | 19:44 |
| dingo | no the bug sounds serious, i replicate it easily, very bad !! | 19:44 |
| kanzure | much bad, such bobby tables, etc | 19:44 |
| dingo | i think the "You should use...." is what got this thing dropped, | 19:45 |
| kanzure | xentrac: that's curious, why wouldn't they just dump the technology itself on the other people? | 19:45 |
| kanzure | i predict his publisher will make it incentive-incompatible for him to release a wiki with his content | 19:45 |
| xentrac | kanzure: I don't remember | 19:46 |
| xentrac | I'm sure we can work something out | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i am uncomfortable with how much stuff is just continuously recycled from vinge | 19:46 |
| kanzure | (in terms of the number of authors that are bothering to try) | 19:47 |
| xentrac | heh | 19:47 |
| kanzure | orion's arm feels a little rusty around the edges in terms of, uh, "conceptual integrity" | 19:49 |
| kanzure | dingo: yeah, i'm over it. ^G plus, if i really wanted, i should just bundle a different binding to readline. | 19:57 |
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| dingo | i can tell, its a year old -- i e-mailed him and offered my help to close it out, seems my mutt doesn't save my sent's, but i said "It seems the only reason kanzure's patch wasn't accepted was 1.) the comment was too long-winded, and 2.) there should be no suggestion to use ^g, etc." | 20:02 |
| kanzure | in #ipython a while back they told me they have known about the bug for 10 years? something like that | 20:03 |
| dingo | if thats all that needs to be changed, no problem -- i'm very sure he has tests for ipython using pexpect, we maintain pexpect together, so theres no reason I can't help write tests for it, either | 20:03 |
| kanzure | you maintain a variant of expect | 20:03 |
| kanzure | hah | 20:03 |
| dingo | :-) with takluyver, yes | 20:03 |
| dingo | we made it python3 and unicode compatible | 20:03 |
| dingo | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect | 20:04 |
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| dingo | yeah ... i get to recieve e-mails from sysadmins trying to automate ssh logins through pexpect ... sigh | 20:04 |
| kanzure | you know, the fda released a warning saying that exact type of email is not good for your health | 20:05 |
| dingo | tcl/expect was one of the first programming i did on linux when i was young | 20:05 |
| dingo | i automated started nethack as a wizard until he started with a ring of gain strength and a magic marker, if i recall | 20:05 |
| kanzure | congrats you are now the go-to person i have for tcl problems | 20:05 |
| kanzure | (brlcad has a lot of tcl stuff that i run into every once in a while) | 20:06 |
| dingo | no way , no sir.. i give up on tcl, fuuuuuck tcl | 20:06 |
| dingo | it was an early python as far as a language you could embed for a C program... it had its merits, but its soooo bad | 20:06 |
| kanzure | .wik BRLCAD | 20:06 |
| yoleaux | "BRL-CAD is a constructive solid geometry (CSG) solid modeling computer-aided design (CAD) system. It includes an interactive geometry editor, ray tracing support for graphics rendering and geometric analysis, computer network distributed framebuffer support, scripting, image-processing and signal-processing tools." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brlcad | 20:06 |
| dingo | i noticed in the automotive engineering group at gm, they had hundreds of various tcl scripts | 20:06 |
| kanzure | are they a dassault shop? | 20:07 |
| dingo | yes | 20:07 |
| kanzure | did you get to use dassault things? | 20:07 |
| kanzure | i put in some time reverse engineering the solidworks file format a bit | 20:08 |
| dingo | i wrote software (in python) for .. Abaqus/CAE | 20:08 |
| dingo | http://www.3ds.com/products-services/simulia/portfolio/abaqus/overview/ | 20:08 |
| kanzure | oh this is there "we're totally not ansys" product? | 20:09 |
| dingo | http://jeffquast.com/ex4.jpg http://jeffquast.com/ex3.jpg http://jeffquast.com/ex2.jpg | 20:09 |
| kanzure | *their | 20:09 |
| dingo | it was a financial thing | 20:10 |
| xentrac | kanzure: I'll be happy to try to help you with Tcl | 20:10 |
| xentrac | I like Tcl | 20:10 |
| kanzure | xentrac: brlcad itself shouldn't have a dependency on tcl/tcl.h for its core solid geometry libraries | 20:10 |
| dingo | the "bolt analysis" software i wrote replaced something that used to cost them a quarter-million/year in licensing with something that cost only about 40K/yr (abaqus) with the ~30K i made writing it | 20:10 |
| kanzure | xentrac: this often gets in the way of https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad | 20:10 |
| xentrac | kanzure: what does it use tcl.h for? | 20:11 |
| kanzure | dingo: heh, fenn wrote a thread analysis thing. i am telling you, you are dopplegangers in weird ways. | 20:11 |
| dingo | abaqus/cae doesn't do much on its own, either in pre or post-processing, its the ability to script your own thing in python that makes it pay out | 20:11 |
| kanzure | xentrac: a lot of fundamental types :( | 20:11 |
| xentrac | that's interesting and surprising | 20:11 |
| dingo | its not like i wanted to... it was a rare opportunity to write python in 2003 and get paid for it | 20:11 |
| xentrac | because BRL-CAD is a lot older than Tcl | 20:11 |
| xentrac | like ten years older | 20:11 |
| dingo | python was not very cool in 2003 | 20:11 |
| dingo | (tcl still was) | 20:12 |
| xentrac | but it seems like a good idea to not reinvent, say, hash tables | 20:12 |
| kanzure | xentrac: overall, brlcad source code is not /that/ bad, and it's at least 100 times better than the quality of the source code behind opencascade | 20:12 |
| xentrac | kanzure: I found BRL-CAD hard to use as a user though | 20:12 |
| kanzure | yes, i think their tcl interface is stupid | 20:12 |
| kanzure | really i just want a libgeometrycrap | 20:12 |
| kanzure | and therefore i wrote the python bindings | 20:12 |
| xentrac | what kind of fundamental types? | 20:13 |
| xentrac | dingo: I think Python was pretty cool in 2003 and Tcl wasn't ;) | 20:13 |
| kanzure | hmph as usual i don't have specifics. all i remember was that i was getting errors because of hte tcl dependency, and presumably there's some way for me to look at the derivative types.. | 20:14 |
| xentrac | if you comment out the #include it will give you a bunch of compile errors | 20:14 |
| kanzure | well, i wasn't actually compiling it =) | 20:14 |
| xentrac | dingo: but maybe you were stuck in a place that was a bit behind the times? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | python-brlcad uses ctypesgen which parses the header files and then dumps out either (1) a python file of ctypes bindings, or (2) a json file that can be used to generate #1 (or for other languages) | 20:14 |
| xentrac | I was writing SME OLAP tools in Python in 2003 | 20:14 |
| kanzure | i don't think that ctypesgen is using pygccxml under the hood (it's code i inherited) https://github.com/kanzure/ctypesgen | 20:15 |
| dingo | yes xentrac, i was near detroit michigan, far from california at the time | 20:16 |
| xentrac | oh yeah, that sucks | 20:17 |
| xentrac | I was in Dayton in 2000, I understand | 20:17 |
| kanzure | also presumably, if they didn't require the tcl header they wouldn't put it in almost all of the brlcad core libraries | 20:19 |
| kanzure | you do have me worried about the brlcad/tcl timelines though | 20:20 |
| xentrac | maybe they rebuilt brlcad almost from scratch in the 90s? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | they have a bunch of support for really old 80s systems still in production | 20:21 |
| kanzure | so it would have had to be a full rewrite | 20:21 |
| xentrac | ? | 20:22 |
| xentrac | I don't understand | 20:22 |
| xentrac | who has a bunch of support for 80s systems? | 20:22 |
| kanzure | maintaining support for already-known system quirks is really more difficult than just starting from scratch | 20:22 |
| kanzure | brlcad does | 20:22 |
| kanzure | (to this day) | 20:22 |
| xentrac | is it the support or the systems that are still in production? | 20:22 |
| kanzure | perhaps both | 20:22 |
| kanzure | military has some old crap laying around | 20:22 |
| xentrac | I also don't understand what you're saying about a full rewrite | 20:23 |
| xentrac | are you saying that if they had done a full rewrite, they would have dropped support for 80s systems? | 20:23 |
| xentrac | Or that the fact that they have support for 80s systems is evidence for a full rewrite, as opposed to a partial one? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | i'm suggesting it increases the cost of a rewrite and it decreases the likelihood that they would have wanted to do it | 20:24 |
| xentrac | none of my plausible interpretations make any sense | 20:24 |
| xentrac | okay, but, they started getting their core data types from Tcl | 20:24 |
| kanzure | i wonder if their svn history goes back far enough to see the introduction of tcl into their source code | 20:25 |
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| xentrac | if you really want to see how he's marketing his book, check out http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/ | 21:03 |
| xentrac | in particular http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/category/in-the-news/ | 21:03 |
| kanzure | what am i supposed to extract from that page other than "he might know stu brand" (stew?) and "typical magazines/news outlets"? | 21:10 |
| kanzure | also, what happened to that last guy, who was making a toaster oven from scratch? | 21:11 |
| kanzure | hrm i can't even remember if he was pimping a book | 21:12 |
| xentrac | he was just pimping the toaster | 21:13 |
| xentrac | and it was a popup toaster, not a toaster oven | 21:13 |
| kanzure | wait, was that you | 21:13 |
| xentrac | no | 21:13 |
| kanzure | art motivations? | 21:14 |
| kanzure | i mean, for-the-sake-of-art | 21:14 |
| xentrac | oh, I guess he did end up writing a book, too | 21:14 |
| xentrac | http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toaster-Project-Thomas-Thwaites/dp/1568989970 | 21:14 |
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| xentrac | it's linked from http://the-knowledge.org/en-gb/further-reading-by-chapter/ | 21:16 |
| kanzure | how depressing | 21:16 |
| xentrac | heh, why? | 21:17 |
| kanzure | i'm not convinced that a book is an adequate or relevant format for those shared goals, see previous ranting today | 21:18 |
| xentrac | haha | 21:18 |
| kanzure | and that the toaster guy also ended up doing a book too, ugh | 21:18 |
| xentrac | I like books | 21:18 |
| kanzure | what about just fucking blog posts | 21:18 |
| kanzure | or you know, a pdf file on a web page or something | 21:18 |
| cluckj | I like toasters | 21:18 |
| xentrac | me too | 21:18 |
| xentrac | it seems like you could probably make almost all of a toaster from a single blend of stainless steel | 21:18 |
| xentrac | plus a little bit of insulation | 21:19 |
| kanzure | what would the heating element entail? | 21:19 |
| xentrac | stainless steel | 21:19 |
| kanzure | yes but how would you heat the stainless steel? | 21:19 |
| xentrac | by running electricity through it | 21:20 |
| kanzure | what electricity | 21:20 |
| kanzure | how did this happen | 21:20 |
| xentrac | listen, the objective is to make an electric toaster | 21:20 |
| kanzure | what would the heating element entail?sumptions? | 21:20 |
| kanzure | wow irc fail | 21:20 |
| xentrac | not an industrial civilization to plug it into | 21:20 |
| kanzure | was that one of his original assumptions? | 21:20 |
| xentrac | yes | 21:20 |
| kanzure | okay. retracted. | 21:20 |
| xentrac | came from HHGTTG | 21:20 |
| cluckj | lol what | 21:20 |
| xentrac | "Left to his own devices he couldn't build a toaster. He could just about make a sandwich and that was it." | 21:21 |
| xentrac | http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch is the TED talk | 21:21 |
| kanzure | a video is even worse than a book! hah | 21:22 |
| xentrac | haha, worse and worse! | 21:22 |
| kanzure | does ted.com do transcripts yet? | 21:22 |
| xentrac | yes, there's a link on that page to a transcript in 29 langauges | 21:23 |
| xentrac | languages | 21:23 |
| xentrac | just the usual ones | 21:23 |
| kanzure | huh. that is tolerable. looking. | 21:23 |
| kanzure | "interactive transcript" interactive? | 21:23 |
| xentrac | it's not interacting with me | 21:24 |
| cluckj | yeah you read it and it tells you things | 21:24 |
| cluckj | high tech new fancypants | 21:24 |
| kanzure | "I went and bought the cheapest toaster I could find, took it home and was kind of dismayed to discover that, inside this object, which I'd bought for just 3.49 pounds, there were 400 different bits made out of a hundred-plus different materials" | 21:24 |
| kanzure | maybe he just picked a stupid toaster | 21:24 |
| xentrac | well no | 21:24 |
| xentrac | he picked a toaster that was optimized for being produced cheaply by an industrial civilization | 21:24 |
| xentrac | not by an individual artisan | 21:25 |
| kanzure | hm "And also, I thought that there would be synthetic polymers, plastics, embedded in the rock." | 21:25 |
| cluckj | http://www.rei.com/product/876276/?cm_mmc=cse_PLA-_-pla-_-product-_-8762760001&outbound-stainless-steel-camp-toaster-2012-closeout,-stainless&preferredSku=8762760001&mr:trackingCode=2089BE54-87C2-E311-90E9-BC305BF82162&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=28464597400&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=49482256000&msid=Cjh52tWO_dc|pcrid|28464597400| | 21:26 |
| cluckj | a cheap ass toaster | 21:26 |
| kanzure | "So the wires were uninsulated. So there was 240 volts going through these homemade copper wires, homemade plug. And for about five seconds, the toaster toasted, but then, unfortunately, the element kind of melted itself. But I considered it a partial success, to be honest." | 21:26 |
| xentrac | it probably has quite a few materials in it | 21:26 |
| cluckj | very little industrial civ necessary....... | 21:26 |
| kanzure | oh well, everyone knows the only true way to cook toast is to use a fresnel lens? | 21:26 |
| cluckj | yeah real men use the SUN | 21:26 |
| kanzure | reading the transcript was way more tolerable | 21:27 |
| kanzure | thanks | 21:27 |
| xentrac | sure :) | 21:27 |
| xentrac | the sun thing sounds kind of unstable | 21:27 |
| kanzure | well so does his toaster :) | 21:27 |
| cluckj | hah | 21:27 |
| xentrac | heh | 21:27 |
| xentrac | yes | 21:27 |
| xentrac | I'm surprised he smelted his iron using microwaves | 21:28 |
| xentrac | but I really think you could do with a stainless steel plug (with some insulation), a stainless steel cable, a stainless steel case, and some thinner stainless steel wire for the heaitng element | 21:32 |
| xentrac | he ended up using nickel for the heating element I think | 21:32 |
| xentrac | which didn't actually work | 21:32 |
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| xentrac | oh, now the Brazilian is telling me she's falling in love with a German in San Francisco | 21:37 |
| xentrac | that's wonderful :) | 21:37 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Gt_oRdd5c | 21:50 |
| yoleaux | Anderson Ta - AMRI 2013 Final Presentations | 21:50 |
| kanzure | "Related to Anderson Ta’s exciting digital light projection (DLP) photolithography last year, Fellows will investigate and program organic light emitting diode (OLED) screens as a light source for 3D photolithographic printing of living tissues. Chemical functionalization of glass surfaces will also be investigated to passivate the screen surface and aid in detachment and 3D printing from the light source surface." | 21:50 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/sjkelly/AMRI-Rice-201308-sjkelly | 21:51 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4wo9cRL3Xg | 21:51 |
| kanzure | "A continuation of Steve Kelly's inkshield augmentation of RepRap motherboards to print living bacteria, Fellows will investigate fluid mechanics, python scripting, and multicolor printing to create interacting bacterial colonies on top of and within agar gels. Fellows will also learn how to insert genes of interest into bacterial colonies for protein production." | 21:51 |
| kanzure | "Fellows will augment and refine the open SLS design pioneered by Andreas Bastian last year. SLS machines typically cost $50k or more, we built ours for under $15k. This year we will focus on powder manufacturing and powder handling, as well as characterization of SLS parts via scanning electron microscopy (SEM) and mechanical testing." | 21:53 |
| kanzure | http://reprap.org/wiki/OpenSLS | 21:53 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE5KRSlO9rA | 21:53 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/andreasbastian/opensls | 21:54 |
| kanzure | http://andreasbastian.com/opensls | 21:54 |
| kanzure | ugh .sldprt files in git. i guess it's at least something.. | 21:54 |
| kanzure | "In January, I started a residency at Autodesk, in their phenomenal Pier 9 facility. I am continuing my research into low cost SLS technology there and am focusing specifically on laser sintering steel. I will be sharing my designs soon." i wonder if autodesk is actually going to let that happen (the sharing part) | 21:55 |
| kanzure | hrm, his blog posts don't mention what spot size he was aiming for or was able to get | 21:58 |
| kanzure | i suppose you can just throw more optics at the problem | 21:58 |
| kanzure | in which case, $15k is an interesting bargain that i might be willing to pay for | 21:59 |
| kanzure | i bet the pricing could be pushed down some more with economies of scale | 22:00 |
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| xentrac | can I project my laptop monitor onto a light-sensitive surface to do LCD photolithography? | 22:03 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Versatile%20stepper%20based%20maskless%20microlithography%20using%20a%20liquid%20crystal%20display%20(LCD)%20for%20direct%20write%20of%20binary%20and%20multilevel%20microstructures%20-%202007%20-%20awesome.pdf | 22:04 |
| kanzure | dunno about your laptop screen itself, or whether you mean attached/detached/scavenged | 22:04 |
| kanzure | the scavengers initiative | 22:05 |
| kanzure | oh that's the right spelling. that joke is much less funny and not a joke now. | 22:05 |
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| xentrac | well, it could potentially be a laptop I'm not using for other things | 22:35 |
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| --- Log closed Sat May 03 00:00:58 2014 | ||
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