| --- Log opened Mon May 05 08:41:51 2014 | ||
| -!- gnusha [~gnusha@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:41 | |
| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA, banned by the Federal Death Administration (4 times) | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki | 08:41 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sun Apr 27 19:38:21 2014] | 08:41 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 08:41 | |
| [@_archels ] [ cluckj ] [ justanotheruser] [ sivoais ] | 08:41 | |
| [@heath ] [ cpopell`working] [ juul ] [ smeaaagle ] | 08:41 | |
| [@ParahSailin ] [ d3vz3r0 ] [ kanzure ] [ strages__ ] | 08:41 | |
| [ abetusk ] [ dbolser ] [ kardan ] [ strangewarp] | 08:41 | |
| [ Adifex|zzz ] [ devrandom ] [ lichen ] [ streety ] | 08:41 | |
| [ andytoshi ] [ dingo ] [ nmz787 ] [ superkuh ] | 08:41 | |
| [ apex ] [ drewbot ] [ nsh ] [ ThomasEgi ] | 08:41 | |
| [ AshleyWaffle] [ echo[1] ] [ padz ] [ Twey ] | 08:41 | |
| [ audy ] [ EnLilaSko ] [ paperbot ] [ Urchin ] | 08:41 | |
| [ augur ] [ eudoxia ] [ pasky_ ] [ Viper168 ] | 08:41 | |
| [ balrog ] [ fenn ] [ phryk ] [ xmj ] | 08:41 | |
| [ bkero ] [ gnusha ] [ realzies ] [ yoleaux ] | 08:41 | |
| [ blueskin ] [ helleshin ] [ rk[1] ] [ yorick ] | 08:41 | |
| [ brownies ] [ HEx1 ] [ ruphos ] [ Zhwazi ] | 08:41 | |
| [ Burninate ] [ ivan` ] [ saurik ] | 08:41 | |
| [ catern ] [ jrayhawk ] [ sheena ] | 08:41 | |
| [ chris_99 ] [ juri_ ] [ Shehrazad ] | 08:41 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 65 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 62 normal] | 08:41 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Fri Feb 26 02:40:30 2010 | 08:41 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 6 secs | 08:41 | |
| fenn | cool | 08:42 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | wb gnusha | 08:42 |
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| xmj | fenn: can you please nag kanzure a little about paperbot :) | 08:53 |
| fenn | nag him yourself | 08:56 |
| fenn | paperbot isn't as easy to start as gnusha for some reason | 08:56 |
| xmj | it's mostly a matter of some op inviting him here i presume. | 08:58 |
| fenn | oh heh paperbot is already running | 08:58 |
| fenn | no wonder it didn't work :P | 08:59 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=512976.512997 | 08:59 |
| fenn | i think acm usually fails | 09:00 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=512976.512997 | 09:04 |
| xmj | timeout? | 09:09 |
| fenn | i'm not sure the correct procedure to start it, maybe i need to kill/restart it in the correct order | 09:11 |
| fenn | how can i see the environment variables for a running process? | 09:11 |
| fenn | ah /proc/PID/environ | 09:13 |
| -!- paperbot [~paperbot@131.252.130.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:15 | |
| fenn | ok i didn't do that | 09:15 |
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| * fenn winches open the storm doors, exposing the creature to the electrical fire of the heavens | 09:18 | |
| kanzure | not even the logging is working | 09:19 |
| kanzure | i have no idea what's wrong | 09:19 |
| kanzure | server has never been rebooted before | 09:19 |
| fenn | do you need to run translation server before phenny? | 09:19 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: a deepness in the sky is kind of a good novel after all | 09:19 |
| kanzure | translation server is already running | 09:20 |
| fenn | eudoxia: i love the contrast between how the spiders see themselves and narrate their lives by radio and the sudden shock when humans come face to face | 09:20 |
| eudoxia | that was pretty good | 09:21 |
| eudoxia | although i'm really upset the OnOff star was not explained beyond 'a new particle which coincidentally gives us a faster ramjet xD' | 09:21 |
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| eudoxia | although i'm 5% away from the end, maybe they explain it on like the last page or something | 09:22 |
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| kanzure | anyone feel like debugging what's wrong with paperbot? | 09:24 |
| fenn | paperbot: reload | 09:25 |
| fenn | does that even do anything | 09:25 |
| gnusha | paperbot: reload | 09:26 |
| gnusha | NOPE | 09:26 |
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| gnusha | paperbot: reload | 09:26 |
| fenn | where is it supposed to log to? | 09:27 |
| kanzure | #paperbot-testing | 09:27 |
| eudoxia | i think there are some operations that only work from admins | 09:28 |
| eudoxia | from looking at the source | 09:28 |
| gnusha | paperbot: reload papers | 09:29 |
| paperbot | gnusha: papers: no such module! | 09:29 |
| fenn | derr what. that's probably the problem | 09:29 |
| -!- paperbot [~paperbot@131.252.130.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:30 | |
| fenn | .w bailiwick | 09:35 |
| yoleaux | bailiwick (/ˈbeɪlɪwɪk/): n. 1. One’s sphere of operations or area of interest: after the war, the Middle East remained his ⁓ — http://is.gd/4lkJmn | 09:35 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=512976.512997 | 09:36 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F512976.512997 | 09:36 |
| fenn | huzzah | 09:36 |
| fenn | what's the secret sauce | 09:37 |
| fenn | actually, that's completely wrong, acm isn't scimag | 09:37 |
| kanzure | any error in the module when it is loaded causes the module to not load | 09:37 |
| kanzure | someone (ParahSailin) made a handful of environment variables a requirement | 09:38 |
| kanzure | since i didn't remember the scihub password, i was going to pass on it | 09:38 |
| kanzure | but evidently that is not allowed | 09:38 |
| fenn | paperbot: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/343/6173/868.full.pdf | 09:41 |
| paperbot | SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 632, in send) | 09:42 |
| fenn | bah | 09:42 |
| kanzure | i had the strangest dream about an elevator that kept going upwards, but then it got loaded into the back of a container on a semi truck, and they drove me away to another building | 09:42 |
| kanzure | stupid elevator cars | 09:43 |
| kanzure | yeah, it would be nice if paperbot worked more than 5% of the time | 09:47 |
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| fenn | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201202210/pdf | 09:48 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8719f033bf6bea1bf00a0e3d0caf24b8.txt | 09:48 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/anie.201202210/asset/7933_ftp.pdf | 09:49 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7b3fbb05fb59ac801103fe4ba3b105a9.txt | 09:49 |
| fenn | what's a url that should work but hasn't already been downloaded? | 09:50 |
| kanzure | that's okay, paperbot doesn't do caching anyway | 09:50 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/nl401215n | 09:51 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/4b3695f2deb7b687321167307334d211.pdf | 09:52 |
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| xmj | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=361227.361230 | 09:56 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F361227.361230 | 09:56 |
| xmj | uh | 09:57 |
| xmj | ok, that's a fail | 09:57 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 10:03 |
| kanzure | make fixes | 10:03 |
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| kanzure | maybe i should restrict paperbot to helping contributors only | 10:16 |
| fenn | good luck with that | 10:17 |
| kanzure | well i don't run it to be nice | 10:17 |
| kanzure | i run it to fetch me papers | 10:17 |
| fenn | you could have two paperbots, one that randomly fails and one that is supposed to work | 10:18 |
| fenn | but we never know which is which | 10:18 |
| fenn | then it could cycle between them manic-depressively, based on the volatility of the bitcoin market | 10:19 |
| * eudoxia mutters something about a paperbot-specific altcoin | 10:23 | |
| fenn | paper money | 10:23 |
| eudoxia | ha | 10:23 |
| fenn | it uses the full text of the paper as the private key | 10:24 |
| fenn | you exchange papers by exchanging the full text of the paper | 10:24 |
| eudoxia | mining software written in postscript | 10:25 |
| eudoxia | turn your readers into a source of cash | 10:25 |
| fenn | mining software implemented on gradstudentbot | 10:25 |
| eudoxia | how would that even work | 10:26 |
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| eudoxia | gradstudentbot: are you turing complete? | 10:29 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, it's significant. | 10:29 |
| kanzure | who turned him on? | 10:33 |
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| gradstudentbot | cache money bits in hose | 11:01 |
| justanotheruser | gradstudentbot passes the Turing test | 11:02 |
| gradstudentbot | Oh yeah, isn't that already a part on the biobrick registry? | 11:02 |
| justanotheruser | I'm guessing that's what you mean eudoxia | 11:02 |
| fenn | turing complete mean capable of doing arbitrary calculations/programs | 11:03 |
| fenn | anything a turing machine could do | 11:03 |
| eudoxia | right, what fenn said | 11:03 |
| eudoxia | gradstudentbot, say something funny | 11:04 |
| gradstudentbot | Uh, interesting question. | 11:04 |
| gradstudentbot | The government announced today that it is changing its emblem to a condom, because it more clearly reflects the government's political stance. | 11:05 |
| kanzure | did someone hijack gradstudentbot? | 11:06 |
| gradstudentbot | Where are the pipettes? | 11:06 |
| gradstudentbot | A condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security, while you're actually being screwed. | 11:06 |
| chris_99 | has it sudently become self-aware kanzure | 11:06 |
| eudoxia | IT'S HAPPENING | 11:06 |
| chris_99 | run for the hills! | 11:06 |
| gradstudentbot | I can feel it. I can feel ... something. | 11:07 |
| kanzure | ugh i hate when this fucking happens | 11:07 |
| fenn | god every other day some irc bot is up and doing a hard takeoff | 11:08 |
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| kanzure | govt wouldn't wear a condom | 11:08 |
| kanzure | also how is that a grad student thing to say | 11:09 |
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| gradstudentbot | Should this be on ice? | 11:09 |
| eudoxia | and i'm guessing kanzure didn't run graddy inside vagrant | 11:09 |
| justanotheruser | Interesting how closely gradstudentbots politics align with kanzures | 11:11 |
| gradstudentbot | Where's my pellets? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | really? what's my political stance | 11:11 |
| kanzure | my politics is more pipettes and less tainted cell cultures | 11:11 |
| kanzure | and graduate degrees for everyone | 11:12 |
| gradstudentbot | Don't even ask how my research is going. | 11:12 |
| kanzure | is his sensitivity increased? what did you change. | 11:13 |
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| fenn | i think people are just paying attention to bots because it's international irc bot day | 11:16 |
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| kanzure | i thought you didn't like it anyway? | 11:21 |
| fenn | me? i like when bots contribute to the discussion, but it's easy to get carried away | 11:22 |
| kanzure | like, say, one that speaks randomly without invocation | 11:23 |
| justanotheruser | Graduate | 11:29 |
| justanotheruser | I guess that's not a keyword | 11:29 |
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| * fenn pokes gradstudentbot | 11:40 | |
| gradstudentbot | Well, it looks better if you see it through a UV scope. | 11:40 |
| fenn | that doesn't even make sense | 11:41 |
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| kanzure | how does it not make sense? | 11:42 |
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| fenn | "Diffbot sees web pages the same way humans do. Its advanced computer vision identifies only the important parts." | 11:51 |
| chris_99 | nmz787, be thee about? | 11:52 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 11:52 | |
| kanzure | http://www.igvita.com/2014/05/05/minimum-viable-block-chain/ | 11:52 |
| fenn | "The Product API can be used for extracting clean, structured data from any e-commerce product page. It automatically makes available all the product data you'd expect: price, discount/savings amount, shipping cost, product description, any relevant product images, SKU and/or other product IDs." | 11:54 |
| fenn | this sounds like an ontological assimilator | 11:54 |
| fenn | digital notaries have been around since forever | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i am not claiming digital notaries are new | 11:56 |
| fenn | i was following the "identity spectrum" cartoon up until "verified" - what makes it verified? | 11:57 |
| kanzure | he is pandering to his audience, a bunch of people still believe in identity | 11:57 |
| fenn | muhahaha, it's actually just my sock puppet army | 11:58 |
| gradstudentbot | Identity, Identity, We Want Identity! | 11:59 |
| fenn | i still dont understand why a block chain is important for verifying votes | 12:02 |
| kanzure | it's not, the audience of this sort of document is also unware of other types of voting schemes | 12:02 |
| kanzure | i've had a huge number of people approach me and ask about modifying the bitcoin source code to run conventional centralized software that would usually (and should) be written to use a database | 12:03 |
| fenn | the way i see it, voting is a poor substitue for a randomized statistical sample | 12:03 |
| kanzure | it's extremely annoying | 12:03 |
| fenn | "store data in the cloud" sort of thinking? or something else? | 12:04 |
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| fenn | i mean freenet is a thing, but ... | 12:05 |
| kanzure | nope not even that.. just "well bitcoin sounds revolutionary, therefore why not use bitcoin to do x?" | 12:05 |
| kanzure | "fuck you and die" | 12:05 |
| fenn | some people don't know the difference between "disruptive technology" and "buzzword compliant" | 12:06 |
| fenn | hence all the atomic pizza ovens of the 1950's | 12:07 |
| kanzure | we had atomic pizza ovens? | 12:07 |
| fenn | baking with gamma rays imparts an unpleasant radioactive flavor | 12:07 |
| fenn | i couldn't think of any actual misconceptions | 12:08 |
| kanzure | if you cook a pizza on a submarine, is it an atomic pizza? | 12:09 |
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| fenn | a pizza is by definition not atomic, unless it's a pizza bite | 12:09 |
| fenn | i was wrong. a random sample is a poor excuse for a complete vote. but voting is almost never complete | 12:13 |
| fenn | also there's a huge bias in the way the vote options are chosen to be presented | 12:14 |
| fenn | VOTE: loser A, loser B | 12:14 |
| fenn | what if i don't want to vote for A or B? too bad. | 12:15 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=63304ccd DavidCary: move link from [[declaration]] | 12:22 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=20c73ba6 DavidCary: move nootropics link to [[nootropics]] | 12:23 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=204a939b DavidCary: move self-replicating machines from [[projects/proposals]] | 12:33 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=300a3323 DavidCary: move self-replicating machines to [[self-replicating machines]] | 12:33 |
| kanzure | hrm | 12:34 |
| @heath | "If it's crap data, we'll make it a shiny turd." ...data science! | 12:40 |
| fenn | i thought we changed the commit irc message to say the name of the file that was changed | 12:40 |
| fenn | self-replicating_machines.mdwn or whatever | 12:41 |
| @heath | the quote was a real one :( | 12:42 |
| @heath | hi fenn | 12:42 |
| @heath | long time | 12:42 |
| fenn | hello | 12:42 |
| kanzure | time is just a symptom | 12:42 |
| @heath | still in the bay area, yeah? | 12:42 |
| fenn | i am in DC | 12:42 |
| fenn | hopefully not for too much longer | 12:42 |
| kanzure | huh? | 12:43 |
| @heath | quite a lot more going on in DC than nashville according to the number of meetup groups | 12:43 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=82742fe5 DavidCary: technical question about ikiwiki formatting | 12:43 |
| fenn | ikiwiki has talk pages? or did he just invent that | 12:45 |
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| kanzure | nope, i imported openwetware diybio content into the wiki a while ago | 12:46 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: can you install the mediawiki plugin thing? or point me to it | 12:46 |
| fenn | it looks like markdown to me | 12:46 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=eb494485 Bryan Bishop: openwetware content import explanation | 12:47 |
| kanzure | oh, it is rendering poorly | 12:47 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/talk:diybio/faq/ | 12:47 |
| kanzure | as opposed to this stuff: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/ | 12:47 |
| kanzure | oh i see. mediawiki plugin would be required. | 12:48 |
| kanzure | i hate marku. | 12:48 |
| kanzure | marup. | 12:48 |
| kanzure | markup. | 12:48 |
| gradstudentbot | You used the wrong formula. | 12:49 |
| fenn | it looks like the same kind of markup to me | 12:49 |
| kanzure | ==== is not markdown | 12:49 |
| fenn | * foo is | 12:49 |
| kanzure | yes but the file extension is .mediawiki | 12:49 |
| fenn | well there you go | 12:49 |
| fenn | does (for i in *.mediawiki ; do mv $i ${i%mediawiki}mdwn ; done) work? | 12:50 |
| fenn | for i in `find . -name '*mediawiki'` | 12:51 |
| fenn | something like that | 12:51 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e7207ae8 Bryan Bishop: move faq.mediawiki -> faq.mdwn | 12:51 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/talk:diybio/faq/ | 12:52 |
| kanzure | pretty awful | 12:52 |
| kanzure | all of this is awful | 12:52 |
| fenn | talk:diybio/faq/equipment.mediawiki | 12:53 |
| kanzure | what about it | 12:53 |
| kanzure | it too will look awful | 12:53 |
| fenn | it's the only other mediawiki file | 12:53 |
| fenn | oh there's nothing there anyway | 12:54 |
| fenn | PROPOSE: delete talk:diybio/faq/equipment.mediawiki | 12:54 |
| fenn | all in favor say nay | 12:54 |
| kanzure | do it yourself | 12:54 |
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| gradstudentbot | Sigh, my invasive fruit flies won’t have sex for me. | 12:55 |
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| fenn | i am in git-diyhpluswiki but `git push /srv/ikiwiki/diyhpluswiki/ master` sez 'remote: error: insufficient permission for adding an object to repository database ./objects' | 13:00 |
| kanzure | push to /srv/git/diyhpluswiki.git | 13:00 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=46e5e9f4 fenn: test edit via shell | 13:01 |
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| fenn | maybe i was thinking asciidoc? | 13:03 |
| fenn | # for header is kinda lame | 13:04 |
| fenn | so all your commented stuff turns into huge glaring title sized font comments? | 13:04 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=387f8a37 fenn: test format fix | 13:07 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4aca7ea1 fenn: playing around with markdown | 13:13 |
| fenn | i format a lot of personal note files as yaml, does it even make sense to try to render that as if it meant something? | 13:19 |
| fenn | aww [[!toc ]] doesn't do sub-headings | 13:22 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f7184b52 fenn: show all the datas | 13:23 |
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| kanzure | yeah i'm not happy with the formatter stuff | 13:25 |
| andytoshi | paperbot: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/2570807_A_Signature_Scheme_as_Secure_as_the_Diffie-Hellman_Problem | 13:33 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f69c486ba7c495853aa973115fb2b614.txt | 13:33 |
| kanzure | what's the scope of the wiki supposed t obe anyway | 13:36 |
| kanzure | *to be | 13:36 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=df5ca4d test format and gnusha irc hook>talk:diybio/faq.mdwn> | 13:45 |
| fenn | hm. | 13:45 |
| fenn | i am also just interested in making ikiwiki work and learning what it is capable of | 13:46 |
| fenn | i have a lot of disorganized crap floating around that i should probably publish in some systematic way | 13:46 |
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| fenn | oh duh, foo:\n bar was asciidoc, not markdown | 13:48 |
| fenn | how do i s/\n/stuff/ without using tr | 13:48 |
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| kanzure | gnusha and diyhplus are both terrible names | 13:48 |
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| fenn | not as bad as serial killer database | 13:49 |
| kanzure | why is half the content on gnusha.org and the other half on the other one | 13:49 |
| kanzure | post receive hook is in /srv/git/ somewhere | 13:49 |
| kanzure | for the irc thing | 13:49 |
| fenn | i am messing with it currently | 13:49 |
| kanzure | yyou can bug pasky for the list of git environment variables | 13:50 |
| fenn | it's /usr/local/bin/gnusha-post-receive | 13:50 |
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| gradstudentbot | Well, the IRB rejected that, so I'm going to rewrite it and try again. | 13:51 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c718e43 :%s/^\* \(.*\) (\(.*\))/* **\1** - \2/ using markdown is so simple! >> talk:diybio/faq.mdwn | 14:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: echo "set list" >> ~/.vimrc | 14:25 |
| kanzure | and maybe echo "set listchars=trail:-" >> ~/.vimrc while you're at it | 14:25 |
| kanzure | this visually indicates to you when you have trailing whitespace | 14:25 |
| fenn | oh i saw that in the git diff but i didn't know what it was | 14:27 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=52ba54d these aren't just genetic modifications >> genetic-modifications.csv >> human-modifications.csv | 14:27 |
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| kanzure | actually, this csv file is mostly crap | 14:31 |
| kanzure | 12/18/2012,12/18/2012,PERFORMANCE,Strength related,GENE,ACTN3,Anaerobic gene doping,,, | 14:31 |
| kanzure | 12/18/2012,12/18/2012,PERFORMANCE,Strength related,GENE,ACE I,Anaerobic gene doping,,, | 14:31 |
| kanzure | this is not how things work | 14:31 |
| fenn | ikiwiki should have a broken link flag | 14:33 |
| kanzure | 12/18/2012,12/18/2012,NOVEL FUNCTION,Orgasmatron,IMPLANT,Spine,Completely subdermal spinal implant allowing orgasms on demand + WIRELESS,,Director_X, | 14:33 |
| kanzure | that is the stupidest thing ever, you have way easier access to the non-spinal nerves that produce orgasm | 14:33 |
| fenn | that actually exists btw | 14:34 |
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| kanzure | doing anything with the spine is way more potentially dangerous. there are lots of other nerves that are equally effective, without doing anything spine related. | 14:34 |
| kanzure | various pelvic nerves | 14:35 |
| kanzure | pudendal nerve | 14:35 |
| kanzure | hypogastric nerve (maybe) | 14:35 |
| fenn | Orgasm Inc. (a documentary about pharmaceuticals like "female viagra") goes into this in extensive detail | 14:35 |
| kanzure | did they justify spinal stuff? | 14:36 |
| fenn | no, they cast it in the light of "dangerous treatment of dubious medical value, and inherent ethical problems" | 14:36 |
| kanzure | ethical problems? | 14:36 |
| fenn | like, "why do you want an orgasm so bad you're willing to get surgery" | 14:37 |
| fenn | trying to please husband or whatever | 14:37 |
| kanzure | ah okay, yeah i'm sure there's lots of fucked up relationships | 14:37 |
| fenn | basically the problem is guys are uneducated about sex | 14:37 |
| fenn | well, girls too | 14:38 |
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| kanzure | their lack of education shouldn't prevent my ability to do x through z without citing some ethical oath | 14:39 |
| fenn | it's amusing that a "tasp" is classified as a weapon | 14:39 |
| kanzure | ughh | 14:39 |
| kanzure | 2/4/2013 13:42:56,,NOVEL FUNCTION,Wings,?,wings,Wings,,MB, | 14:39 |
| kanzure | the problem with this list is that there might be one or two items in here that are missing on genetic-modifications.mdwn | 14:40 |
| fenn | NOVEL FUNCTION,KETER,grants immortality and control of fabric of spacetime,keter,ND | 14:40 |
| kanzure | but otherwise it's deleteworthy | 14:40 |
| fenn | oh it does have a broken link function, neat | 14:41 |
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| fenn | well, go through and delete each one on genetic-modifications.mdwn; if what's left is unimpressive then delete | 14:43 |
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| fenn | s/on/from/ | 14:43 |
| fenn | words | 14:43 |
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| kanzure | a lot of this is surprisingly medical | 14:43 |
| kanzure | who the hell cares about "wings"? flying swarms of robots and uavs are way more useful to control. | 14:43 |
| fenn | also it wouldn't work on earth | 14:44 |
| FourFire | fenn well some people think a wirehead is basically dead | 14:44 |
| kanzure | and i'm not sure "generic medical changes" are explicitly transhumanist | 14:44 |
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| fenn | FourFire: are there actually any wireheads? | 14:44 |
| FourFire | thus causing someone to be wireheaded, is sorta like killing them, if you don't stop | 14:44 |
| FourFire | and Orgasmning someone on demand will incapitate them | 14:45 |
| kanzure | fenn: well, the people with wires going into their brains probably count, like the deep brain stimulation folks | 14:45 |
| FourFire | putting them under your control | 14:45 |
| kanzure | an orgasm doesn't put someone under your control | 14:45 |
| fenn | i mean david pierce's whole philosophe rests on the idea that great > good is the same as good > bad | 14:45 |
| gradstudentbot | Paper submitted. | 14:45 |
| FourFire | you're essentially overloading their nervous systems, maybe without permanently damaging it, but overloading all the same | 14:45 |
| fenn | it's more the conditioning and subversion of existing control structures | 14:46 |
| kanzure | i haven't actually seen any reported deaths from deep brain stimulation users just wireheading | 14:46 |
| FourFire | fenn, I don't think so, but heroin abusers come close | 14:46 |
| fenn | but heroin has other side effects, like CNS depression and slowed heartbeat etc | 14:46 |
| kanzure | did you know it's possible to take heroin without abuse | 14:46 |
| kanzure | same with meth | 14:46 |
| FourFire | kanzure, sure, but i don't trust myself to have the discipline to be able to do that | 14:47 |
| fenn | yeah it's called "prescription painkillers" or "prescription stimulant medication" | 14:47 |
| kanzure | avoiding molecular addiction isn't exactly just about discipline | 14:47 |
| fenn | i'm wondering if a wireheader will do nothing or just continue to live their life, but happier | 14:48 |
| FourFire | kanzure, ok saying that having the power to induce orgasm on someone puts them under your control is a bit much, but you can certainly impair them significantly | 14:48 |
| fenn | FourFire: "wireheading" doesn't mean inducing an orgasm | 14:48 |
| kanzure | fenn, the previaling political discourse is that they will do nothing except press the button and die, but it's worth being skeptical of that argument | 14:48 |
| FourFire | kanzure, well there's some genetics involved too I think, but that's an unknown | 14:48 |
| kanzure | *prevailing | 14:48 |
| fenn | i'm extremely skeptical of assertions based on nothing | 14:49 |
| FourFire | wireheading is to permanently induce orgasm | 14:49 |
| kanzure | it's not just "genetics vs discipline" -_- | 14:49 |
| fenn | FourFire: no, you're wrong. it's not "orgasm" it's "pleasure" | 14:49 |
| FourFire | well that's what I've been lead to believe it means | 14:49 |
| kanzure | wireheading is often about all sorts of pleasure, not specifically orgasm (which has a lot of physiological by products other than brain stuff) | 14:49 |
| kanzure | *byproducts | 14:49 |
| FourFire | permanent pleasure, possibly in waves | 14:49 |
| kanzure | this conversation is fucked up | 14:49 |
| kanzure | who are you | 14:49 |
| FourFire | yeah, right sorry | 14:50 |
| FourFire | assume I've now updated my definition of TASP, and Wireheading | 14:51 |
| kanzure | what is TASP? | 14:51 |
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| fenn | it may be best to just read "known space" | 14:52 |
| FourFire | it's like a device which can temporarily cause the effects of wireheading | 14:52 |
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| FourFire | or you can just constantly TASP someone == wireheaded someone | 14:52 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=cbcc2c4 ignore vim swap files >> .gitignore | 14:52 |
| fenn | tasp = wireless wirehading, if that makes any sense | 14:52 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=32f1f16 remove empty lines from csv file >> human-modifications.csv | 14:53 |
| FourFire | fenn I think that TASP could be used as a weapon, in that it can reduce the function of surprised recipients | 14:53 |
| fenn | now isn't that better with filenames after the commit message? | 14:53 |
| kanzure | meh, i would prefer a link to the actual page that was edited | 14:54 |
| kanzure | and then the link to the commit | 14:54 |
| fenn | oh i forgot the username | 14:54 |
| kanzure | put the hook in the wiki repo | 14:54 |
| kanzure | and then symlink to that | 14:54 |
| kanzure | there may be git reasons that the symlink plan is a bad idea, which i'm sure jrayhawk or pasky will point out *cough* | 14:55 |
| fenn | meh | 14:56 |
| dingo | gotta git git | 14:56 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=de4a4ae make the irc channel age year-agnostic >> hplusroadmap.mdwn | 14:56 |
| kanzure | this landing page is hilarious: | 14:58 |
| kanzure | http://musclegenes.com/ | 14:58 |
| kanzure | this image in particular: | 14:59 |
| kanzure | http://musclegenes.com/wp-content/themes/musclegenes/img/backed-by-science.jpg | 14:59 |
| kanzure | oh damn, the text is an overlay | 14:59 |
| jrayhawk | symlinking into a git repo seems fine, though i would kinda suggest doing object signing and verification of some sort instead | 14:59 |
| kanzure | well it's supposed to say "BACKED BY SCIENCE" in front of him | 14:59 |
| kanzure | oh yeah, because it's a script executed by someone | 14:59 |
| kanzure | hah they raised money http://musclegenes.com/2014/04/musclegenes_investment/ | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | for i in "$@"; do openssl smime -sign -inkey ~/private/ahl-deploy.key -signer ~/private/ahl-deploy.crt -binary -outform pem < $i > $i.sig; done and https://secure.piny.be/cgit/ahl/tree/bin/example/ahl-signed-exec.sh is an example of how to do it with SMIME | 15:01 |
| gradstudentbot | Where's my pellets? | 15:02 |
| jrayhawk | PGP would be another option, though that would involve attempting to use gnupg | 15:02 |
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| fenn | .pellet | 15:03 |
| kanzure | < gradstudentbot> You pellet the sample. No luck. | 15:03 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, the IRB rejected that, so I'm going to rewrite it and try again. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | i don't understand how knowing which variant of muscle-related genes you have would help you exercise more sanely | 15:05 |
| kanzure | theoretically you might have a fucked up metabolism where you should dose yourself with food at a different time rather than whatever you have been doing | 15:05 |
| kanzure | but i don't know of any evidence of stuff like that existing | 15:05 |
| fenn | .vortex | 15:06 |
| kanzure | You vortex the sample. Unfortunately, your sample is now destroyed because the undergrad knocked over the equipment. | 15:07 |
| kanzure | defeatist interactive molecular biology fiction | 15:07 |
| fenn | choose your own protocol | 15:07 |
| kanzure | hint, they all lead to pain and suffering | 15:07 |
| gradstudentbot | Sorry, I can't really talk right now because I'm burried in grant writing. | 15:08 |
| kanzure | even though they might work, i think bunches of them should be thrown out | 15:08 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=b602c8ee fenn: remove trailing whitespace >> talk:diybio/faq.mdwn | 15:12 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=6c186d2b fenn: Merge branch 'master' of /srv/git/diyhpluswiki >> | 15:12 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/eliben/pycparser "Complete C99 parser in pure Python" | 15:12 |
| fenn | i was just thinking "are there commits with no modified files?" and there it is | 15:12 |
| fenn | anyway, there's your precious username | 15:13 |
| kanzure | pft, i didn't ask for username, you did | 15:13 |
| fenn | i was talking to fenn | 15:13 |
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| kanzure | fenn: so you don't want to be in DC? | 15:23 |
| fenn | i have no reason to be here | 15:37 |
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| fenn | what the hell, i've never heard of this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WesternAnimation/Centurions | 15:43 |
| fenn | "In the near future Doc Terror, and his cyborg companion, Hacker, unleash their forces to conquer Earth! Only one force can stop this evil: a handful of brave men. In specially created Exo-Frames, they can be transported anywhere to fuse with incredible assault weapon systems, beamed down from the space station Skyvault, becoming man and machine, Power Xtreme!" | 15:43 |
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| fenn | "the lead character Crystal Kane is accused of "Zone Dancing" (The series term for computer hacking) and seen using a "droud" to interface her brain with computer networks in what is probably the first animated representation of Cyberspace and Virtual Reality. The story written by Michael Reaves weaves a future noir tale of cyberpunk espionage, cloning and private-eye procedural" | 15:50 |
| fenn | https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7163806/Centurions_-_Cartoon_Series | 15:54 |
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| kanzure | is this spam? http://medicaldevicesreports.wordpress.com/ | 16:16 |
| kanzure | since the links don't lead to real content (just spam), i think this is spam | 16:16 |
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| kanzure | ok yes this is just seo bullshit | 16:19 |
| kanzure | sigh | 16:19 |
| kanzure | they are trying to sell 92 pages of content for $10k? | 16:22 |
| kanzure | haha | 16:22 |
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| juri_ | fenn: um, wth? | 16:50 |
| juri_ | i hope we don't lose you here. DC has too few real hackers at the moment. | 16:51 |
| juri_ | with a couple million people in the DC metro area, its sad that i've ran into so few 'real hackers' that i can count them on my fingers. i'd hate to hear you left. | 16:55 |
| fenn | heh now you know why i don't want to be here | 16:57 |
| juri_ | why don't you try meeting the other real hackers? there's so few, i could arrange it. ;P | 16:59 |
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| juri_ | i've been here for two years. unemployed. | 17:00 |
| fenn | god, why? | 17:00 |
| kanzure | she doesn't work on anything that pays money because it's immoral to not be doing gnu things | 17:00 |
| fenn | at least live somewhere with a beach | 17:01 |
| kanzure | *to be doing paid non-gnu things | 17:01 |
| * juri_ sticks her tongue out at kanzure. | 17:01 | |
| juri_ | welp, at least i'm known. thats the first part of being known and respected, right? | 17:01 |
| * juri_ looks around hopefully. | 17:01 | |
| kanzure | if you do things right, nobody will know you were there at all | 17:02 |
| kanzure | etc | 17:02 |
| fenn | "the network's running fine, what are we paying you for" | 17:02 |
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| juri_ | indeed. | 17:04 |
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| kanzure | and conversely, "the network isn't working, what are we paying you people for" | 17:06 |
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| jrayhawk | kanzure: the fact that the mediawiki plugin at last update features a bug report from you basically calling it obsolete in 2012 is not very encouraging, but i can try installing it anyway if you want | 17:32 |
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| kanzure | o__o | 17:33 |
| kanzure | well, i'll go ahead and trust myself | 17:33 |
| kanzure | no point in ignoring my own advice | 17:33 |
| jrayhawk | "so far the output is not very appealing" | 17:35 |
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| kanzure | "Ubeam emits Ultrasound frequency waves from a base station. These sound waves are converted into mechanical energy by a crystal inside a flash-drive sized dongle attached to the device. The crystal resonates at that sound frequency and the mechanical energy of the vibration is then converted into electricity by the dongle." | 17:39 |
| kanzure | whatever happened to ubeam anyway | 17:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/ubeam they raised $2.1M? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | ouch, that's not much of a round | 17:40 |
| kanzure | might as well have been a down round | 17:40 |
| kanzure | neat " For example, ultrasound is already used to wirelessly charge pacemakers http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/11/wireless-pacemakers " | 17:41 |
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| kanzure | "Transrectal transducer with simultaneous biplane imaging" | 17:53 |
| kanzure | transrectal dawg | 17:53 |
| @heath | 2.1 isn't terible | 17:55 |
| @heath | terrible | 17:55 |
| @heath | unless maybe you are in sf | 17:55 |
| kanzure | neat, a commercial tumor ablation system http://www.haifumedical.com/Products/Model-JC200/ | 17:56 |
| kanzure | and here's one where the body goes through the machine (but they don't mention full-body imaging) http://www.haifumedical.com/Products/Model-JC/ | 17:58 |
| kanzure | "Approvals: Europe: CE,China: CFDA, Korea: KFDA, Russian Federation approval" | 17:58 |
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| @heath | http://www.osvehicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/cua-01okok-495x400.jpg | 18:06 |
| @heath | i want that cad model | 18:06 |
| @heath | g/that cad model/the cad model for this drawing/ | 18:07 |
| kanzure | hehe someone demanding bitcoins for an openssh vulnerability http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gjkivAf3 | 18:09 |
| kanzure | (which is most likely bullshit) | 18:09 |
| kanzure | "Well duh, ... of course if someone sent 20 BTC there you can bet they'd be flooded with emails of the form "my txid is {txid}, send it over to me". This is one of multiple reasons why the Bitcoin system wasn't designed for people to reuse addresses." | 18:10 |
| kanzure | hehehe | 18:10 |
| kanzure | https://zmap.io/ / https://github.com/zmap/zmap "It's pretty crazy to think about, but a portscan of the IPv4 space isn't that hard to do in practice: On a typical desktop computer with a gigabit Ethernet connection, ZMap is capable scanning the entire public IPv4 address space in under 45 minutes. The research paper says that it's on a particular port, from page 3: "The architecture allows sending and receiving components to run ... | 18:12 |
| kanzure | ... asynchronously and enables a single source machine to comprehensively scan every host in the public IPv4 address space for a particular open TCP port in under 45 mins using a 1 Gbps Ethernet link."" | 18:13 |
| gradstudentbot | Can I get some more media? | 18:13 |
| kanzure | no you have to use what you already have | 18:15 |
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| gradstudentbot | need... data... | 18:21 |
| kanzure | use the data you already have | 18:22 |
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| fenn | i hadn't thought of that.. black hats using honeypots to learn about zero days from other black hats | 18:29 |
| kanzure | the superweapon zerodays are not going to be spent on random targets | 18:32 |
| fenn | what's the last line mean? ". 1\-5\61\-J\48/a \~£\3|2\D6\ %%!%})." | 18:35 |
| kanzure | given the stupidity about bitcoins in this, i suspect this is not legit | 18:39 |
| fenn | it also seems like a very small amount of money | 18:39 |
| fenn | i mean too small | 18:40 |
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| fenn | http://www.reddit.com/user/vjn http://vjn.livejournal.com/profile https://twitter.com/VJ_net_ua https://www.facebook.com/VJaroslaw?_fb_noscript=1 possibly unrelated but he links to an article about "little-known division of the Treasury created by Congress after the Sept. 11 attacks, is now engaged not only terrorists and illegal hunting for offshore cash flows. It uses the latest in financial | 18:50 |
| fenn | weapons for attacks on carefully selected targets, with links to hostile governments" | 18:50 |
| kanzure | why isn't there an aws for manufacturing, where i can rent a flex cell and just point laser beams at shit | 18:51 |
| fenn | is called mfg.com? | 18:51 |
| kanzure | you have to call people | 18:51 |
| kanzure | and then you have to tell them things, instead of just pointing your api client at the machines | 18:51 |
| kanzure | it's all very stupid | 18:51 |
| fenn | what happens when the user breaks your machine with the API calls | 18:54 |
| kanzure | dunno, but first of all there's some at least minimum level of constant amount of damage just by using | 18:56 |
| kanzure | i mean, for certain tools, maybe not all tools | 18:56 |
| fenn | it's not a constant | 18:56 |
| kanzure | so at minimum there would have to be regular maintenance | 18:56 |
| kanzure | the constant is the minimum | 18:56 |
| fenn | diamond coated inserts can last for essentially forever, in certain situations | 18:56 |
| fenn | julian had a bit to say about this | 18:56 |
| kanzure | there may be other methods of breaking things other than just the inserts | 18:57 |
| fenn | more ways than you can think of | 18:57 |
| kanzure | and even if it wasn't a flex cell, someone would have to be maintaining it anyway | 18:57 |
| fenn | heh i'd like to see fuzz testing of a machining center | 18:57 |
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| fenn | kerblammo | 18:57 |
| fenn | there's a difference between normal wear and tear, and catastrophic failure | 18:58 |
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| kanzure | well, they're paying you, so you can just factor that in | 18:59 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning. | 19:03 |
| kanzure | fenn had evernote questions for you | 19:03 |
| fenn | does it actually work on handwriting recognition? | 19:03 |
| fenn | or is it fake OCR "good enough for searching" but not really | 19:03 |
| JayDugger | The latter. | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i wonder if livescribe could do better hand writing recognition if it uses accelerometer/gyro data | 19:06 |
| kanzure | even the palm pilot needed its own funky grammar because it couldn't tell how you were drawing things | 19:06 |
| kanzure | s/grammar/symbols | 19:06 |
| kanzure | good thing i don't care | 19:06 |
| fenn | i don't think there has been as much research into vector character recognition, especially for latin characters | 19:06 |
| JayDugger | I occasionally take handwritten notes. Those, if archived, go to Evernote. I have legible printing. | 19:06 |
| JayDugger | Evernote's OCR tends to err with incorrect rotation, and with false positives for recognition. | 19:07 |
| JayDugger | If you want to search something, handwritten, you'll get better results with tagging it in the program. | 19:08 |
| fenn | that sort of defeats the purpose | 19:08 |
| JayDugger | As for cursive? especially my mother's atrocious scrawl on yellow post-it notes, forget it. | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | It does okay with "born-digital" documents, and serves just fine as an Archive. | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | It works well when searching for reference designators across circuit diagrams or illustrated part breakdowns. | 19:10 |
| fenn | do you think it could reliably translate something like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/sachac/14022300544/ | 19:10 |
| JayDugger | Unseen, that's probably a question for sacha chua, who usually hangs out in #emacs and #org-mode. | 19:10 |
| JayDugger | Seen, ehh...maybe? Probably wouldn't get transform or capture from the image at the lower left. | 19:11 |
| fenn | she also says " even though no one expects transcripts for podcasts and even though I can transcribe my own posts, I pay other people to transcribe them for me." which leads me to believe evernote is not reliable enough | 19:11 |
| fenn | i guess that's audio tho | 19:11 |
| fenn | i have a fair amount of low-entropy handwritten data that needs asciifying | 19:12 |
| JayDugger | Yeah. There formerly existed castingwords, which did exactly that. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: might be easiest to pay some kid $10 to do it | 19:13 |
| fenn | kanzure: problem is humans make weird mistakes that are hard to discover | 19:13 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, but the problem with that is finding a kid smart enough to do it who's dumb enough not to notice it sucks. | 19:13 |
| fenn | kanzure: computers make weird mistakes that make you go "what the heck" immediately | 19:13 |
| JayDugger | Shoeboxed.com does an okay job of scanning hard copy to Evernote. | 19:14 |
| fenn | oh, receipts | 19:14 |
| JayDugger | The price is right, but I think I got in a free plan as an Evernote comp. | 19:14 |
| fenn | yeah i don't actually care about evernote | 19:15 |
| JayDugger | Shoeboxed does non-receipts too: bills, greeting cards (get one for your mother), legal documents, etc. | 19:15 |
| kanzure | there is also onereceipt | 19:16 |
| JayDugger | Good point. | 19:17 |
| kanzure | what are the chances that he knew sacha chua, that doesn't make sense | 19:18 |
| kanzure | i forget that we are all slight replicas of each other with very minor differences | 19:19 |
| fenn | meep moop | 19:20 |
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| fenn | JayDugger: are you an emacs user? | 19:20 |
| fenn | stupid freenode and their ghost policy | 19:20 |
| fenn | er, invisibility | 19:21 |
| fenn | "This prevents you from appearing in global WHO/WHOIS by normal users, and hides which channels you are on. It is enabled by default." | 19:21 |
| fenn | so not only do i not learn about people, i also don't learn about channels | 19:22 |
| nsh_ | i've complained about it before to no avail | 19:23 |
| fenn | what's the rationale behind that decision? | 19:23 |
| pyotra | fenn this is a freenode issue. I can never see where people are cochanneling | 19:24 |
| nsh_ | the rationale is that +i protects people and the set of people who actually want to be able to shared their joined channel information is small enough to ignore | 19:25 |
| JayDugger | Yes, for my sins, I use emacs. | 19:25 |
| gradstudentbot | Who's in charge of the master mix? | 19:25 |
| JayDugger | I learned enough vi (not vim) because it work (a Solaris shop) required it. | 19:26 |
| fenn | i'd guess 90% of users don't care one way or another, 5% wants to hide their channel list, and 5% wants to know what channels others are on | 19:26 |
| fenn | i doubt anybody tries to share the list of channels they're joined on | 19:27 |
| JayDugger | Then I looked at outlining software for a while, from freemind to freeplane, ran into problems with Java under xmonad, came down to Leo or org-mode, and decided I'd look at org-mode for a year, then switch to Leo. | 19:27 |
| JayDugger | That was two-three years ago. :) | 19:27 |
| fenn | so you use leo? | 19:27 |
| fenn | There are 899 users and 52716 invisible | 19:28 |
| fenn | so at least 900 have set -i | 19:28 |
| JayDugger | Not yet. It slipped on the list of things to learn. It seems to have Python as a prerequisite, and the core developer occasionally veers off into climate change disasterism. | 19:28 |
| JayDugger | More honestly, I haven't learned enough emacs to switch over to Leo. | 19:29 |
| fenn | ah. it seems org-mode is a pretty stable attractor (or end-state) | 19:30 |
| JayDugger | To paraphrase Bruce Sterling, "it beats drugs for turning basically smart people into human wreckage." | 19:31 |
| JayDugger | You know, those weirdos who have a wireless connection, need a shower, and understand all those silly parentheses. | 19:32 |
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| fenn | There were derelicts around who could fit all their material possessions in a paper bag, but they’d have a cheap laptop and some big chunk of the [completely digitized and accessible Library of Congress] and they’d crouch under a culvert with it, and peck around on it and fly around in it and read stuff and annotate it and hypertext it, and then they’d come up with some pathetic, shattered, | 19:33 |
| fenn | crank, loony, paranoid theory as to what the hell had happened to them and their planet | 19:33 |
| fenn | wikpedia, scourge of the future | 19:33 |
| fenn | i've never read anything by bruce sterling and don't particularly want to | 19:34 |
| JayDugger | That's it. | 19:34 |
| fenn | was the crank loony paranoid theory that people started using "apps" and forgot how to do anything productive? | 19:35 |
| JayDugger | I'd call "Holy Fire" the last novel of merit he wrote, but he had at least one good short story after that. | 19:36 |
| JayDugger | No, the quote's from his novel "Heavy Weather," which I think came out before 2000. | 19:36 |
| JayDugger | Fits the model, though. | 19:36 |
| fenn | i guess editing wikipedia isn't as sexy as piloting a robot vulture around | 19:38 |
| fenn | (as i read the wikipedia plot summary on my cheap laptop) | 19:39 |
| fenn | ug so many things to read and then the day's over | 19:43 |
| catern | fenn: my n=1, I switched to emacs because I wanted to use org-mode, but I haven't found it to be that much more useful, and the complexity is annoying. it was prohibitively painful for me to set up a few interesting things | 19:44 |
| fenn | more useful than what | 19:45 |
| catern | vim-wiki | 19:46 |
| catern | + todo.txt | 19:46 |
| gradstudentbot | When is he back from sabbatical? | 19:47 |
| fenn | is "todo.txt" a program or a cliche? | 19:48 |
| catern | (I kind of prefer the hypertext way of organizing my notes (i.e. what vim-wiki is) over the outlining focused attitude of org-mode) | 19:48 |
| JayDugger | Org will let you do that, but it takes hoop-jumping. | 19:49 |
| catern | fenn: it's a format used by a shell script called todo.sh and several other things | 19:49 |
| kanzure | "vim-wiki" why is it editor specific? | 19:49 |
| catern | JayDugger: sure, but Ctrl-o/Ctrl-i (history which goes through files) in vim makes the hypertext thing a lot nicer and easier than it can ever be in emacs | 19:50 |
| kanzure | fenn: stop reading | 19:50 |
| fenn | ok fine, i didn't get to the video i meant to watch either | 19:50 |
| JayDugger | $0.02 for the off-topic jar. | 19:51 |
| JayDugger | catern: I'll take your word for it. | 19:51 |
| fenn | i don't really ever want to click hyperlinks in my text editor | 19:51 |
| fenn | or whatever you do with a keyboard | 19:52 |
| fenn | probably the main reason i don't use elinks | 19:52 |
| catern | well it's easy to move your cursor to the link with vim movement commands | 19:52 |
| kanzure | what part of the wiki is vim-dependent? | 19:53 |
| catern | no part of it | 19:53 |
| catern | it's just a plugin | 19:53 |
| kanzure | ugh | 19:53 |
| kanzure | does it parse mediawiki content or something? | 19:53 |
| catern | to support a certain format | 19:53 |
| fenn | it's not even a wiki, it just uses wiki markup | 19:53 |
| catern | yeah | 19:53 |
| catern | what fenn said | 19:53 |
| fenn | i think i'll stick to git and yaml and whatever text editor i happen to like at the moment | 19:54 |
| fenn | i guess that means ikiwiki | 19:54 |
| catern | good plan | 19:54 |
| JayDugger | Well said. | 19:55 |
| fenn | at least with hierarchical structures there's a canonical path | 19:55 |
| fenn | sometimes it's hard to decide where to put an idea | 19:55 |
| fenn | you can't put it both places because then it gets out of sync | 19:56 |
| fenn | maybe this is when you make a new file specifically for that idea, and link to it | 19:56 |
| fenn | the alternative is using a tagging system where each idea/node/file can have multiple paths | 19:57 |
| fenn | that thought might have been out of order | 19:58 |
| gradstudentbot | The protocol is wrong. | 19:58 |
| catern | i think it might just be really hard to make a non-awful knowledgebase system | 19:58 |
| catern | because none exist and it's in high demand | 19:59 |
| fenn | we certainly haven't come a long way since 1968 | 19:59 |
| fenn | NLS is basically identical to org mode | 19:59 |
| fenn | except NLS had videoconferencing :P | 19:59 |
| JayDugger | NLS? | 19:59 |
| fenn | .g mother of all demos | 20:00 |
| yoleaux | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos | 20:00 |
| JayDugger | Thought so. | 20:00 |
| JayDugger | .g org-mode bug tracker | 20:00 |
| yoleaux | http://orgmode.org/worg/org-issues.html | 20:00 |
| JayDugger | Feel free to add a feature request, fenn. :) | 20:00 |
| JayDugger | We have some improvements since the days of the Dewey decimal system, the UDC, and the LCC. | 20:01 |
| catern | i'm planning to build a knowledgebase notetaking whatever system on top of camlistore, which is a tagged indexed content storage thing | 20:02 |
| JayDugger | Or Bacon, or Diderot and d'Alembert. | 20:02 |
| fenn | yeah now we have OWL and Cyc :\ | 20:02 |
| JayDugger | .g camlistore | 20:02 |
| yoleaux | https://camlistore.org/ | 20:02 |
| catern | (if it ever gets stable enough) | 20:02 |
| fenn | where does camlistore actually put the data? | 20:02 |
| JayDugger | How very interesting. Thank you, catern. | 20:02 |
| catern | watch the talk it's pretty good | 20:04 |
| catern | fenn: on disk in a format | 20:04 |
| JayDugger | I added it to the youtube-dl queue for my | 20:05 |
| JayDugger | commute's playlist. | 20:05 |
| fenn | oh. i thought it was like, on freenet, or google drive, or something | 20:05 |
| catern | it can be. it abstracts away storage as being done by a "blob storage server" which is just a few functions and can be a wrapper around whatever | 20:06 |
| catern | which has* | 20:07 |
| fenn | why should i use camlistore instead of git | 20:09 |
| fenn | i mean you could write a git wrapper around flickr images | 20:12 |
| fenn | (the images are binary blobs containing whatever kind of data) | 20:13 |
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| fenn | i guess it has a focus on partial caching | 20:14 |
| kanzure | .wik vector clock | 20:21 |
| yoleaux | "Vector clocks is an algorithm for generating a partial ordering of events in a distributed system and detecting causality violations. Just as in Lamport timestamps, interprocess messages contain the state of the sending process's logical clock." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_clock | 20:21 |
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| kanzure | is there a blog that only shows hockeystick graphs that are happening in the world? e.g. growth trends | 20:34 |
| fenn | trending topics? | 20:34 |
| fenn | or is that too fast of a timescale | 20:35 |
| fenn | shoes: a growing trend | 20:35 |
| kanzure | not topics | 20:37 |
| kanzure | well, maybe. image macro uptake. but that's sort of boring. | 20:37 |
| fenn | what is a trend | 20:37 |
| kanzure | i'd rather see stuff like, "a graph of the proliferation of semiconductor fabs, hey look it's hockeystick-like" (narf) | 20:37 |
| kanzure | are you thinking what i'm thinking? | 20:38 |
| fenn | i'm thinking it's past my bedtime | 20:38 |
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| kanzure | QuantumG: hi | 21:02 |
| QuantumG | hey | 21:04 |
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| kanzure | QuantumG: did you look into that latest internet explorer vulnerability? | 21:05 |
| QuantumG | nah, that's IT's job | 21:05 |
| kanzure | huh? then what's yours? | 21:05 |
| QuantumG | decompilation | 21:06 |
| kanzure | what's the difference | 21:06 |
| QuantumG | I write code that does a crappy job at making binaries look like source code so security analysis can be done without customers having to hand over source code. | 21:07 |
| kanzure | that's stupid | 21:07 |
| QuantumG | it's a livin'. | 21:07 |
| nsh_ | luckily they accept stupid in shops | 21:07 |
| kanzure | they are paying you to do security stuff, but then they don't give you all the assets | 21:07 |
| kanzure | because.. they don't trust you? | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | well, even if you had the source code, we argue, it works better this way. | 21:08 |
| QuantumG | When we analyze php, for example, we get the source code and immediately "compile" it and throw away the source code. | 21:09 |
| QuantumG | which, ya know, the customer should have done long ago most of the time anyway (it's php) | 21:09 |
| juri_ | so, bullshit sells. not news. | 21:16 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: wouldn't it be better to do both? | 21:18 |
| kanzure | .ety bolth | 21:18 |
| yoleaux | Sorry, I couldn't find the etymology of that. | 21:18 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: bring me cool things | 21:26 |
| eudoxia | cool things is a very broad category of things | 21:26 |
| eudoxia | but ok | 21:26 |
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| QuantumG | kanzure: what, to write ya own compiler? Why bother? You're only going to have to make it conform with the actual compiler used, keep it up-to-date, etc, etc. | 21:29 |
| QuantumG | source code == comments and formatting. Sometimes very nice to have, but not much good for automated analysis. | 21:31 |
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| kanzure | oh, you only do automated analysis? | 22:06 |
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| QuantumG | that's what I'm involved with, yes. | 22:12 |
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| kanzure | gene_hacker: sup | 23:39 |
| gene_hacker | not much | 23:40 |
| -!- marciogm [~marciogm@179.126.67.39] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] | 23:42 | |
| -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 23:52 | |
| --- Log closed Tue May 06 00:00:52 2014 | ||
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