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| chris_99 | where art thou paperbot | 02:37 |
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| @heath | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/zego-multifunctional-delta-robot-with-3d-printing-attachment | 08:20 |
| @heath | i like this one | 08:21 |
| @heath | if it isn't funded, i'll go with the rostock max | 08:21 |
| @heath | https://github.com/seemecnc/RostockMAXv2 | 08:21 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/openworm/PyOpenWorm "Unified data access library for data about the c. elegans anatomy and model for the OpenWorm project" | 09:01 |
| kanzure | net.aneuron('AVAL').receptors() | 09:02 |
| kanzure | why is that a function :( ugh | 09:02 |
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| mabblebrox | hello | 09:07 |
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| kanzure | mabblebrox: hi | 09:21 |
| mabblebrox | i was talking to someone about myostatin | 09:21 |
| mabblebrox | any new research on this? a myostatin blocker would be awesome | 09:22 |
| kanzure | yes they stopped the clinical trials because it had symptoms that matched ebola | 09:22 |
| kanzure | mabblebrox: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications http://diyhpl.us/wiki/myostatin | 09:23 |
| mabblebrox | the one with mice? or human trials? | 09:27 |
| kanzure | human trials | 09:27 |
| mabblebrox | so basically, rotting flesh? | 09:29 |
| kanzure | bleeding from the gums | 09:29 |
| mabblebrox | well that's not too bad, if it's temporary | 09:30 |
| kanzure | what was wrong with steroids? | 09:30 |
| mabblebrox | uh, infertility, increased aggression | 09:30 |
| mabblebrox | i suppose you could just use THC to counteract the aggression maybe | 09:31 |
| kanzure | store some sperm before you go on a cycle like any other rational person | 09:31 |
| mabblebrox | lol | 09:31 |
| mabblebrox | i'm not much familiar with steroid use | 09:31 |
| mabblebrox | aren't they only useful if you're already pretty buff? | 09:31 |
| kanzure | doctors prescribe them to the dying, they are pretty fucking amazing | 09:32 |
| mabblebrox | hmm | 09:32 |
| chris_99 | so the dying get big muscles? ;) | 09:32 |
| mabblebrox | i wouldn't want to turn into some hyped up maniac | 09:32 |
| kanzure | you'd have to be dead to not get results | 09:32 |
| mabblebrox | some guy killed his wife from steroid use | 09:32 |
| kanzure | guys are always killing wives | 09:32 |
| kanzure | big deal | 09:32 |
| mabblebrox | yeah but like, directly correlated | 09:33 |
| kanzure | oh my god a correlation | 09:33 |
| mabblebrox | unless you can show that THC will be enough to counteract it | 09:33 |
| kanzure | someone figure out my sign | 09:33 |
| mabblebrox | lol | 09:33 |
| mabblebrox | i mean you could step up to opium i guess | 09:33 |
| mabblebrox | at least, on a cycle | 09:33 |
| kanzure | you just don't like them because they are communist technology | 09:33 |
| mabblebrox | then off | 09:33 |
| mabblebrox | no just from like, research i've seen | 09:33 |
| kanzure | papers or it didn't happen | 09:34 |
| mabblebrox | do you use them? | 09:34 |
| kanzure | some of the aggression claims are falsified | 09:34 |
| kanzure | i use steroids to type faster, http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure | 09:34 |
| mabblebrox | lol | 09:34 |
| mabblebrox | why would they falsify claims of steroid side effects? | 09:34 |
| kanzure | makes it easier to convince people not to use them | 09:34 |
| mabblebrox | so you're suggesting there's a government conspiracy to keep us weak | 09:35 |
| mabblebrox | also, dvorak? | 09:35 |
| mabblebrox | if you're using qwerty i feel sorry for your fingers | 09:35 |
| kanzure | qwerty only | 09:35 |
| mabblebrox | ouch man | 09:35 |
| kanzure | dvorak is not enough of a gain | 09:35 |
| mabblebrox | that's just asking for carpal tunnel | 09:35 |
| mabblebrox | I use it | 09:35 |
| mabblebrox | qwerty was deliberately designed to slow down typing, because the arms in the typewriter would get jammed | 09:36 |
| mabblebrox | but, i dunno, combining steroids with stimulants just sounds bad | 09:36 |
| ParahSailin | if kanzure has survived this long without rsi issues, its safe to say hes not gonna | 09:36 |
| mabblebrox | hum | 09:36 |
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| mabblebrox | well, i use dvorak, and love it | 09:36 |
| mabblebrox | but back to the government conspiracy | 09:37 |
| mabblebrox | you're suggesting, basically, that they want us to remain weak | 09:37 |
| kanzure | it's not a government conspiracy | 09:37 |
| chris_99 | you should both have a typing race off | 09:37 |
| mabblebrox | which I can *almost* buy | 09:37 |
| kanzure | it's just your standard fearmongering | 09:37 |
| mabblebrox | idk man | 09:37 |
| chris_99 | nmz787, don't suppose you're about? | 09:37 |
| mabblebrox | I mean, if you're dealing in transhumanism, you have to be rational | 09:37 |
| mabblebrox | I think stimulants might be better | 09:38 |
| kanzure | what makes steroids irrational? | 09:38 |
| mabblebrox | heart attacks | 09:38 |
| xmj | quit spitting FUD, its boring | 09:39 |
| mabblebrox | FUD? | 09:39 |
| chris_99 | fear uncertainty doubt | 09:39 |
| kanzure | .wik fear uncertainty doubt | 09:39 |
| yoleaux | "Fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) is a tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations,politics and propaganda." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt | 09:39 |
| mabblebrox | hmm | 09:39 |
| kanzure | but you're willing to bleed from the gums | 09:40 |
| mabblebrox | well that's temporaray | 09:41 |
| mabblebrox | as opposed to liver damage or heart failure | 09:41 |
| xmj | mabblebrox: do you think cholesterol leads to coronary heart disease, too? | 09:41 |
| mabblebrox | it builds up in veins, as far as i'm aware | 09:41 |
| xmj | ok, please go away. | 09:41 |
| * xmj yawns | 09:41 | |
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| kanzure | wow he actually left | 09:55 |
| kanzure | xmj: you'll have to show me how to do that, because they don't usually listen to me | 09:55 |
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| xmj | kanzure: i doubted this would work, and you're welcome | 09:58 |
| xmj | kanzure: let me repeat it at least one more time before i'll teach you | 09:58 |
| kanzure | my usual "please leave" doesn't work | 10:00 |
| kanzure | maybe i will try "please go away." possibly with "ok, " at the front. | 10:00 |
| xmj | i'm thinking it was the combination of showing them they still cling to an absurd belief, *and* the ok, please leave | 10:01 |
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| kanzure | .title http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2436272 | 10:23 |
| yoleaux | Can Information Be Locked-Up? Informed Trading Ahead of Macro-News Announcements by Gennaro Bernile, Jianfeng Hu, Yuehua Tang :: SSRN | 10:23 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: you have to be more german | 10:25 |
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| kanzure | "- "delegation debt" is a form of technical debt that has nothing to do with code and all to do with people willing to maintain it. Inside Google people are allowed (sometimes even suggested) to move between projects every 2/3 years. This means that you can expect the code to write today to have to be maintained by half a different set of people in around 12/18 months" | 10:46 |
| kanzure | "Google's culture seeks and destroys territorial tendencies. I have seen people promoted for having suggested to terminate their own projects... and I have seen people ostracized for having created a territory and having dug moats all around it, even if incredibly complex and successful as a project. This too has to do with sustainability and scale. This is particularly strong in Search where being territorial for middle managers is ... | 10:46 |
| kanzure | ... equivalent to career suicide. Things change as you go higher up the chain of command and in different product areas, though. But it's unfortunate because such an immune reaction to territorialism is one of the most amazing aspects of Google's culture." | 10:46 |
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| kanzure | "European do‐it‐yourself (DIY) biology: Beyond the hope, hype and horror" http://www.markusschmidt.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/DIYBio_eu.pdf | 11:13 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=2e08e63e Bryan Bishop: consolidate some prototyping comments >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/heuristics/ | 11:51 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=58f8f1e2 Bryan Bishop: include some words about yak shaving >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/heuristics/ | 11:55 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=376dbf0a Bryan Bishop: fix formatting inside pre element >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/heuristics/ | 11:55 |
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| FourFire | "do you think cholesterol leads to coronary heart disease, too?" don't certain types of cholesterol integrate into the cellular membranes of blood vessel cells making them less flexible and thus stiffening the blood vessel as a whole and causing more direct strain on a pumping heart... or is that another molecule? | 12:43 |
| FourFire | cholesterol is a major component in arterial plaque ... | 12:43 |
| andytoshi | FourFire: food cholesterol and blood cholesterol are different molecules | 12:43 |
| FourFire | yeah, I'm not certain on what types do what | 12:43 |
| FourFire | I know there are different types | 12:44 |
| andytoshi | i don't know what food cholesterol is, i know blood cholesterol can be split into HDL and LDL ("high density liposomethings" and "low density liposomethings") based on the number of double-carbon bonds they have, and i'm vaguely aware of the chemistry behind why this makes LDL plaque | 12:45 |
| andytoshi | HDL i think is good for you | 12:45 |
| FourFire | yeah and there's some ratio: like fishy fats contain more of the healthier type | 12:46 |
| FourFire | Land mammal fats... contain more of the other kind | 12:46 |
| andytoshi | i've read that hydrogenated "trans" fats somehow decrease your HDL while increasing LDL, so they're double-bad. animal "sat" fat merely increases LDL(?) | 12:47 |
| andytoshi | but there is a lot of research that suggests sat fat is not really bad for you, it was just confused with trans fats in old studies | 12:47 |
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| delinquentme | so the kids in #biology are freaking out over me talking about 20nm filters | 13:45 |
| ParahSailin | good luck pushing shit through 20nm pores | 13:49 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, I picked up a 7thz HPLC | 13:54 |
| delinquentme | *nods* | 13:54 |
| delinquentme | so I need to get whole-ECM in solution. | 13:55 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, in a size-based separation like this ... is there a term for the widest dimension of a protein? | 13:59 |
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| delinquentme | HUE HUE HUE! They've done this in 3d printing :D | 14:03 |
| * delinquentme high five ParahSailin | 14:03 | |
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| jrayhawk | FourFire: It's not the cholesterol, it's a particular beta-sheet structure on a particular class of lipoprotein called apolipoprotein-B100. | 14:04 |
| jrayhawk | http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-i this is a good series on the subject. | 14:04 |
| jrayhawk | I mean, the beta-sheet structure is called apolipoprotein-B100, the class of lipoprotein is called low-density lipoprotein. | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | Notably LDL is a part of the immune response; it's responsible for cleaning up stuff like lipopolysaccharide. | 14:06 |
| jrayhawk | Inflammatory/oxidative insults can damage arterial membranes, shut off the thyroid (decreasing LDL clearance), and raise LDL production. | 14:08 |
| jrayhawk | Use of statins *does* decrease cholesterol production, but *almost never* decreases overall mortality. Where you see disease substitution in a treatment, it means you've mixed up pathology with etiology somewhere along the line. | 14:11 |
| jrayhawk | The paracellular absorption pathway for dietary cholesterol is carefully managed in most people. There is a subpopulation of humans for which it is not particularly carefully managed, but most of it goes to HDL. | 14:12 |
| jrayhawk | s/paracellular/intracellular/ durrr | 14:15 |
| FourFire | I don't even know what etiology means... | 14:17 |
| FourFire | every day is a chance to learn new things! | 14:18 |
| ParahSailin | bovine collagen is $10/kg | 14:20 |
| ParahSailin | stop wasting time | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | mmmmm bovine collagen | 14:21 |
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| yottabit | if anyone highlighted me today, i missed it | 14:24 |
| yottabit | guess i could look at the logs | 14:24 |
| yottabit | programming with callbacks... | 14:25 |
| yottabit | when it's all i've got to work with, i'm a bit disappointed | 14:25 |
| jrayhawk | Anyone who tells you "trans fats" as a class are bad for you is selling you on a lie. Go to scholar.google.com and see how long it takes you to find anything negative about vaccinic acid or conjugated linoleic acid. | 14:25 |
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| jrayhawk | The real problem is artificial (and thus evolutionarily novel) fatty acids, which can either get mis-selected and mis-used by enzymes, or not used at all. The 'trans' bend is an unsaturation; any such unsaturation is vulnerable to oxidation (unless carefully and appropriately managed, which artificial fatty acids are not). | 14:29 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbhTjRY0rBQ is a fun video on saturated fat politics and science. It is particularly elucidating to see how far over backwards scientists would bend in order to avoid losing their careers. | 14:32 |
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| jrayhawk | A reminder of how just how meaningless scientific consensus is. | 14:32 |
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| delinquentme | ParahSailin, Thats the collagen. Thats not whole ECM | 14:48 |
| delinquentme | Pure pig collage is worth a try ... but the mechanisms described in the literature are a bit more complex | 14:49 |
| ParahSailin | if you want every protein then why do you want to hplc | 14:49 |
| delinquentme | viral particles | 14:50 |
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| Daeken | hola all | 14:50 |
| jrayhawk | Hello! | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | Literallly I could just sell the whole ECM in a blended up state and that could possibly help ... | 14:51 |
| Daeken | just got my first implantable NFC tag in the mail, and it made me remember this channel haha | 14:51 |
| ParahSailin | hplc is for getting one thing out of a mix of many things | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, it also can be used for simple size sorting. | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | eff, stupid body is being so needy right now ... ugh gotta eat again | 14:52 |
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| ParahSailin | no that would not be a correct use | 14:52 |
| jrayhawk | oh hey, you're not working on FirefoxOS anymore | 14:53 |
| jrayhawk | i am behind the times | 14:53 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, not *ideal* absolutely. | 14:53 |
| Daeken | jrayhawk: no, left mozilla at the end of 2012 -- wasn't a great fit for me | 14:53 |
| Daeken | ended up back in security consulting. breaking things is much more my speed :) | 14:53 |
| ParahSailin | use matrigel if you want ecm free of virus | 14:54 |
| delinquentme | And I need to read more research on which proteins I should be pulling out | 14:54 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, and full of cancer related promoters | 14:54 |
| ParahSailin | or attenuate virus with formalin | 14:54 |
| delinquentme | how do they get matrigel free of virii? | 14:54 |
| jrayhawk | I remember seeing something about creating Yet Another Display Server and being very sad | 14:54 |
| Daeken | jrayhawk: hmm? | 14:54 |
| ParahSailin | virii? thats a banning | 14:55 |
| cluckj | sweet, new DIY antenna is picking up stations from vermont | 14:55 |
| ParahSailin | use actual words | 14:55 |
| delinquentme | cool ParahSailin viruses | 14:55 |
| delinquentme | brb . fooding. | 14:55 |
| ParahSailin | matrigel doesnt have virus because it does not come from a source that has virus | 14:56 |
| delinquentme | that seems quite complex to be guaranteed | 14:56 |
| ParahSailin | lyophilize and blast with uv will also destroy virus | 14:56 |
| delinquentme | are the mice just raised in sterile conditions? | 14:57 |
| ParahSailin | there is no mouse | 14:57 |
| delinquentme | wha? Are you sure? | 14:57 |
| ParahSailin | stop wasting everyone's time | 14:58 |
| ParahSailin | read some stuff | 14:58 |
| delinquentme | was my understanding that its a tumor which is grafted onto mice and grown | 15:00 |
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| delinquentme | A gelatinous protein mixture derived from mouse tumor cells and commercialized as Matrigel i | 15:02 |
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| delinquentme | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20162561 | 15:02 |
| ParahSailin | cells | 15:02 |
| ParahSailin | not mouse | 15:02 |
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| delinquentme | Ah. | 15:06 |
| delinquentme | Pedant would be a stretch right ParahSailin ? | 15:06 |
| ParahSailin | ? | 15:07 |
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| kanzure | what is the difference between "etiology" and "root cause analysis"? | 15:26 |
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| ParahSailin | theres a pretty big difference between taking a secretion of mammalian cells in a flask and extracting something from a mammal's corpse | 15:36 |
| jrayhawk | "etiology" is more fun to say | 15:44 |
| kanzure | http://bitfreak.info/files/pp2p-ccmbc-rev1.pdf "Purely P2P crypto-currency with finite mini-blockchain" | 15:47 |
| kanzure | hm this assumes that balance is the only relevant piece of data in older blocks, which is probably false | 15:48 |
| kanzure | the relevant data is anything that contributed as input for the hashing | 15:48 |
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| delinquentme | NANOHEDONISM : http://www.etp-nanomedicine.eu/public/news-events/news/european-research-council-erc-awarded-its-4000th-grant-to-a-nanomedicine-project IDK ... just a crazy name | 15:53 |
| kanzure | "Bitcoin makes use of 2.1 quadrillion units where each coin is made up of 10 million units," uh.. he sucks at math. | 15:56 |
| kanzure | "resulting in a total of 21 million coins." that is not how math works | 15:57 |
| Daeken | yo kanzure | 16:00 |
| kanzure | sup | 16:01 |
| Daeken | not a lot, about to get my first NFC tag implanted :) | 16:01 |
| Daeken | you? | 16:01 |
| Daeken | long time no see! | 16:01 |
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| kanzure | various bitcoin things | 16:01 |
| Daeken | sweet | 16:01 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/forget,_when_up_to_one%27s_neck_in_alligators,_that_the_mission_is_to_drain_the_swamp | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "speaker for the diodes" pfft | 17:08 |
| kanzure | http://joi.ito.com/weblog/2005/03/05/yak-shaving.html i thought all the mit people knew the origin of all mit terms | 17:10 |
| dingo | ha | 17:10 |
| kanzure | oh, mit ai lab, not mit media lab | 17:11 |
| kanzure | maybe they don't talk | 17:11 |
| kanzure | http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2005/03/dont_shave_that.html | 17:13 |
| kanzure | "The minute you start walking down a path toward a yak shaving party, it's worth making a compromise." well that's a dumb way to put it.. how about instead of compromise, you just use one of the other options. | 17:13 |
| kanzure | as usual, c2.com seems to have better content about this phenomenon | 17:15 |
| kanzure | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?YakShaving | 17:15 |
| kanzure | in particular: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PushDownGoalStack | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "Situation: You have a push-down stack for all your goals. When you hit an obstacle, you push "remove the obstacle" onto the stack. Then, when the obstacle is cleared, you pop the stack, and you are back at your original problem." | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "Problem: For some reason, the problems you push onto the stack keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, dwarfing the original problem, each one dwarfing the one before it." | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "The goal inflation is not infinite; it seems that the goals shrink down again to something reasonable after the stack gets to a depth of about seven or so." | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "But you've only got so much time, and you don't want to give up your original goal, nor do you want to delay it for years and years. You feel like you are working on the irrelevant." | 17:16 |
| kanzure | "priority queue q = new priority queue sorted by "importance-units per complexity-unit"" | 17:20 |
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| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldjJFW0pSUU | 17:37 |
| yoleaux | Galil Engineering Group - Promotion clip | 17:37 |
| kanzure | see they don't require a matter compiler :furrowing: | 17:38 |
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| Daeken | nfc tag implanted in my hand :D | 17:56 |
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| catern | nice | 18:03 |
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| kanzure | this gets interesting at page 22 (regarding large-scale engineering design problems) http://www.birs.ca/workshops/2011/11w5120/files/Chen.pdf | 18:05 |
| kanzure | "a system is not identifiable if different values of the model parameters are equally probable" | 18:07 |
| kanzure | "Objective-oriented sequential sampling for simulation based robust design considering multiple sources of uncertainty" | 18:08 |
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| kanzure | http://johnmurphy.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/yak-shaving-vs-cat-waxing-a-difference-of-vital-importance/ | 18:14 |
| kanzure | haven't heard "cat waxing" before, heh | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | pft "trans human industries" http://www.medialifemagazine.com/max-steel-stolen-for-the-most-part/ (just some silly cartoon) | 18:51 |
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| Zhwazi | It was demonized in Half Life 2 also, but more subtly. | 19:47 |
| kanzure | the cartoon was demonized in hl2? | 19:48 |
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| pyotra | Zhwazi you have to toss the pallets using the anti-gravity gun so you can walk over sand without alerting the giant insectw | 20:06 |
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| Zhwazi | No, transhumanism was. And I just killed the insects. It was easier. | 20:07 |
| Zhwazi | Stupid antlions. | 20:07 |
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| pyotra | Three Free man should use the anti-gravity gun. | 20:07 |
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| pyotra | the* | 20:07 |
| Zhwazi | It was just called the gravity gun | 20:07 |
| pyotra | http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Energy_Field_Manipulator | 20:09 |
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| fenn | localized CVD doesn't sound too difficult http://www.3dprinterworld.com/article/researchers-use-additive-manufacturing-create-nanoscale-objects | 20:40 |
| strangewarp | ha, I remember that part of HL2. some by-the-by bit of dialogue about "the transhuman loyalists" to Breen's regime, with the implication being that they were all being turned into uh, those lobotomized cyborg things later in the game... | 21:01 |
| kanzure | fenn, detroit doesn't have a sea port. how about shop space near a sea port.. | 21:03 |
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| fenn | Detroit serves as a major port on the Detroit River connecting the Great Lakes system to the Saint Lawrence Seaway. | 21:24 |
| fenn | how about the sacramento river | 21:26 |
| fenn | i guess it depends which ocean you're intereste in | 21:27 |
| kanzure | having to use freight + pickup for equipment is a headache | 21:29 |
| kanzure | why'd i get rid of that truck | 21:33 |
| fenn | i want a small isuzu refrigerated box truck | 21:35 |
| fenn | they are so cute and practical | 21:35 |
| fenn | you can flip up the cab and the whole engine is accessible | 21:35 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/the-embezzler.jpg | 21:36 |
| kanzure | my truck </3 | 21:36 |
| kanzure | it even baked cookies | 21:37 |
| fenn | nobody needs a truck like that | 21:37 |
| kanzure | agreed | 21:37 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: is that really your car? | 21:37 |
| fenn | i wonder if it's legal to chop a schoolbus in half and weld it back together | 21:37 |
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| kanzure | justanotheruser: it was my car for approximately 3 weeks while i was busy selling it (it was the result of extended lawsuits and legal adventures) | 21:38 |
| fenn | buses are practically free for the taking | 21:38 |
| kanzure | *one of the results | 21:38 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: is it driving a bus full of children home when you cut it? | 21:38 |
| kanzure | one of many results | 21:38 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: yeah but you have to make sure to use a linear shape charge or it makes a mess | 21:39 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: you got it because of a lawsuit or lost it because of a lawsuit? | 21:39 |
| kanzure | result of a series of lawsuits | 21:40 |
| fenn | it was the "prize" | 21:40 |
| kanzure | one of many | 21:40 |
| kanzure | this is also related to why i'm not allowed to use charles schwab anymore | 21:40 |
| fenn | that's hardly a loss | 21:40 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: ... You gained assets, but lost privileges? | 21:40 |
| kanzure | well, think of it from the perspective of a company involved in a messy series of lawsuits or legal entanglements | 21:41 |
| kanzure | would you really want to have future dealings with everyone involved? | 21:41 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: I'm curious, what did they allege you did? | 21:41 |
| kanzure | i can sort of see their side of it | 21:41 |
| justanotheruser | Or what did you claim they did? | 21:41 |
| kanzure | oh, i did nothing but hire lawyers to pursue the case | 21:41 |
| kanzure | i just claimed they goofed up. but there were other parties involved.. anyway, it's complicated. | 21:42 |
| justanotheruser | OK... And did you win money and buy a truck or win a truck? | 21:42 |
| fenn | also you are not allowed to use q-tips | 21:42 |
| kanzure | one of the assets i was given was a bunch of trucks | 21:43 |
| justanotheruser | Weird | 21:43 |
| kanzure | yes... that is an okay way to say it. | 21:44 |
| justanotheruser | Does Charles Schwab hold their assets in trucks? | 21:44 |
| kanzure | i said other parties were involved, right? | 21:44 |
| justanotheruser | Oh, I thought they were on your side | 21:44 |
| kanzure | hah i wish | 21:44 |
| kanzure | SUE EVERYONE | 21:45 |
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| kanzure | asset seizure, yo | 21:45 |
| fenn | seize dat ass | 21:46 |
| fenn | set | 21:46 |
| fenn | is it a "hate crime" to encourage the murder of an occupational group? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | not on irc | 21:47 |
| justanotheruser | Is it a crime to encourage but not solicit murder in general? | 21:48 |
| fenn | DEATH TO ALL LEAF BLOWER GUYS | 21:48 |
| kanzure | it's not murder, it's just selective encroachment | 21:48 |
| QuantumG | fenn: second | 21:48 |
| justanotheruser | "Murder all North Korean leaders" | 21:48 |
| kanzure | yeah, leaf blowers should be killed with fires | 21:48 |
| fenn | you thought i was going to say lawyers didnt you | 21:48 |
| kanzure | if they really didn't want leafs in their yards, they would just use giant nets on the edges of their property | 21:49 |
| kanzure | and under each tree canopy | 21:49 |
| QuantumG | I watched my wife tutor a leaf blowing neighbour in how to use a broom once. | 21:49 |
| kanzure | your wife must be a saint | 21:49 |
| QuantumG | indeed | 21:50 |
| kanzure | of leaf blower stopping | 21:50 |
| fenn | kanzure how about venice | 21:50 |
| kanzure | why | 21:50 |
| justanotheruser | Leaf blowers are useful contributors to society. They make my view of the suburbs more aesthetically pleasing. | 21:50 |
| fenn | all properties have easy mediterranean access | 21:50 |
| fenn | also i just watched a documentary about venice | 21:50 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: enjoy the view when it's burning | 21:51 |
| kanzure | i don't know about shipping from china to venice | 21:51 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: ? | 21:51 |
| QuantumG | leaf blowing (v) a process that takes ten times as long to complete and piss off everyone around you. | 21:51 |
| fenn | well shipping china to oakland is pretty routine | 21:52 |
| fenn | i dunno if it's easy to get something transferred to your own boat | 21:53 |
| fenn | or if you can get it delivered by a barge or something | 21:53 |
| kanzure | i'm just not keen on ending up in a situation where i'm wondering how to get something from the tracks to a shop | 21:53 |
| fenn | that seems like a service that would exist right? | 21:53 |
| fenn | oh i think a waterfront hackerspace is a grand idea | 21:54 |
| kanzure | i bet copenhagen suborbitals has at least one shop with water access | 21:54 |
| fenn | need to do something incredibly dangerous? no problem, just put it on a barge and tow it out into the bay | 21:54 |
| kanzure | i wonder how they stop rising tide from washing away your cnc equipment | 21:56 |
| QuantumG | ya guys keep talking like this and I might get the wrong impression that you're actually planning on doing something. | 21:56 |
| kanzure | don't worry, fenn will stop me | 21:56 |
| QuantumG | cool | 21:56 |
| fenn | hold on let me get out my book of existentialist excuses | 21:56 |
| kanzure | symbolic computing seems to be the reason this week | 21:56 |
| fenn | "Everything has been figured out, except how to live. | 21:57 |
| fenn | "Only the guy who isn't rowing has time to rock the boat. | 21:57 |
| fenn | what the hell is that supposed to mean | 21:57 |
| fenn | "hey guys we're going the wrong way!" | 21:57 |
| kanzure | it means that the rower can't learn guitar | 21:57 |
| fenn | "Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do. | 21:58 |
| fenn | srsly, ever try to use an angle grinder at 3 am? | 21:59 |
| kanzure | why would the angle grinder care what time it is? | 21:59 |
| kanzure | how do they keep their tools from washing away? | 22:00 |
| fenn | uh what | 22:00 |
| fenn | you mean from the inevitable climate deluge omgz sea levelz | 22:01 |
| kanzure | well, a tsunami? | 22:01 |
| fenn | you just build your shop on a fnord, and the tsunami pretends like it isn't there | 22:02 |
| justanotheruser | Whats new in hplus? Anything getting us closer to transhumanism? And cool open source hardware? | 22:03 |
| QuantumG | debates about yak shaving | 22:04 |
| fenn | well there's bunnicula the vampire rabbit | 22:04 |
| justanotheruser | What is your noot stack? I tried piracetam and it didn't work at all. But ltheanine and caffeine combined do work | 22:04 |
| kanzure | the yak shaving debates are just my way of attempting to convince fenn to bother to build things | 22:05 |
| kanzure | my noot stack is just adderall | 22:05 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: script? | 22:05 |
| fenn | piracetam is only noticeable when combined with something else | 22:05 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:05 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: reccomend? | 22:05 |
| justanotheruser | *recommend | 22:05 |
| fenn | i think piracetam reduces jitters and "noise" of caffeine | 22:05 |
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| fenn | justanotheruser: since we don't know what you do and don't know it's hard to decide what to tell you | 22:08 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: don't know what my medications are, or my occupation is? | 22:09 |
| kanzure | occupation: astronaut | 22:09 |
| fenn | more like, what you have read/seen or not | 22:09 |
| fenn | i don't believe in occupations | 22:09 |
| justanotheruser | My occupation is student. I'm a PhD student studying to become a member of the FDA. My hobbys include dreaming about the future and reading hplusroadmap magazine. | 22:10 |
| kanzure | i hope that's not true | 22:11 |
| kanzure | i originally started hplusroadmap to get more transhumanist hardware projects to happen | 22:11 |
| kanzure | well, not just more, but specific things at least | 22:11 |
| fenn | perhaps we can indoctrinate him to become a subversive agent | 22:11 |
| kanzure | he's joking | 22:12 |
| justanotheruser | No, I am everything you hate kanzure | 22:12 |
| fenn | or is it counter-subversive? it's hard to keep track of stated goals vs hidden agendas | 22:12 |
| kanzure | magazine readers are simply the worst; "i think a computer sounds cool, but let me just wait 40 years for it to become mass marketed, instead of making my own" | 22:12 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: so you're an FDA bitcoiner? that doesn't add up | 22:12 |
| fenn | so anyway what are you interested in besides nootropics and bitcoins? | 22:14 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: why not? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | because bitcoins aren't fda approved | 22:14 |
| fenn | secure systems in general aren't fda-approved | 22:15 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: everything in this channels topic, but I don't think nootropics are as useful as many advertise them to be | 22:15 |
| justanotheruser | I also am really interested in decentralized systems | 22:15 |
| justanotheruser | And nanotechnology | 22:15 |
| fenn | please explain what you mean by "decentralized systems" | 22:16 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: I'm trying to get FDA approval, that's my PhD thesis | 22:16 |
| kanzure | most nootropics aren't particularly impactful | 22:16 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: applications without central authorities, like money or marketplaces | 22:16 |
| kanzure | adderall does something really magical for me, but i'm pretty certain i'm a fluke | 22:16 |
| justanotheruser | Or filesharing | 22:17 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: does it cause motivation? | 22:17 |
| kanzure | yes and no | 22:17 |
| fenn | it makes you do whatever you were doing, but more | 22:17 |
| kanzure | it's possible that there's higher than normal motivation on my end | 22:17 |
| kanzure | but also, it doesn't hurt it | 22:18 |
| justanotheruser | I prefer vyvanse | 22:18 |
| fenn | (at least that's my observation from the outside) | 22:18 |
| kanzure | i could feel vyvanse but it had much more of a peripheral nervous system effect for me | 22:18 |
| fenn | i thought vyvanse was the "female viagra" :X | 22:18 |
| kanzure | no | 22:18 |
| justanotheruser | I think a vyvanse script would be terrible for me (it is amphetamine after all), but it makes me incredibly concentrated | 22:19 |
| kanzure | why is that terrible? | 22:19 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: bexause amphetamine damages your brain over time | 22:20 |
| kanzure | specifically? | 22:21 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/amphetamines/amphetamines_effects.shtml | 22:23 |
| justanotheruser | All my infos from erowid, so I may be wrong | 22:23 |
| fenn | there are rather significant differences between "speed" and "adderall XR" | 22:23 |
| fenn | not least of which is delivery method | 22:24 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=56bf9ac9 Bryan Bishop: yak shaving >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/heuristics/ | 22:24 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure the delivery method counts for a lot | 22:25 |
| justanotheruser | I may have remembered wrong though. It seems most of the negative effects are to your body | 22:25 |
| kanzure | the delivery method is the part that didn't get genericized | 22:25 |
| kanzure | updated http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/heuristics | 22:25 |
| fenn | but smoking meth is diametrically opposed to the purpose of "XR" | 22:25 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: most negative effects are due to not eating, not sleaping, not salivating | 22:26 |
| kanzure | hmm, well meth has long-lasting effects, like multiple hour highs or something | 22:26 |
| kanzure | so i'm not sure how that's supposed to not be "extended release"? | 22:26 |
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| justanotheruser | kanzure: if I got smartmarket working, would it be hplus enough to be on diyhpl.us? | 22:27 |
| fenn | that's the tail end of the logarithmic drop-off | 22:27 |
| kanzure | if you mean the wiki, you're free to add whatever you please | 22:27 |
| kanzure | if you mean the source code on diyhpl.us/cgit, i'd be happy to git clone.. | 22:27 |
| justanotheruser | OK thanks | 22:27 |
| kanzure | did i show you http://diyhpl.us/cgit/drugstackscrapers | 22:28 |
| kanzure | oh hm i deleted it? that doesn't seem like me | 22:28 |
| kanzure | i was writing a nootropic price indexing search engine thing | 22:28 |
| kanzure | with klafka | 22:28 |
| fenn | it's still there, just no read permissions | 22:30 |
| fenn | what's smartmarket? | 22:31 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/lapp0/Smart-Market | 22:31 |
| fenn | is this like silk road but decentralized? | 22:32 |
| kanzure | fenn, explain how things like these are possible without a matter compiler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldjJFW0pSUU | 22:35 |
| fenn | it seems the majority of things we need are neither illegal or restricted, but just not produced in large enough quantity for a market to exist at all | 22:36 |
| fenn | .title | 22:36 |
| yoleaux | Galil Engineering Group - Promotion clip | 22:36 |
| fenn | "the group employs hundreds of professionals, with some of the best minds in their field" ooo pipes, lots of pipes | 22:38 |
| fenn | win32pipes.exe | 22:38 |
| kanzure | nah that's standard bullshit | 22:38 |
| kanzure | just like we're the greatest minds in transhumanism | 22:38 |
| kanzure | (we're fucking screwed) | 22:39 |
| fenn | so i think they use a component of matter compiler, the "design rule checker" and "automated layout" to route their pipes | 22:40 |
| fenn | similar to how PCB layout works | 22:40 |
| fenn | i just don't know what the software is called, probably only exists inside companies like galil | 22:40 |
| kanzure | uh no, they aren't just using a layout algorithm | 22:41 |
| kanzure | they also actually do real work | 22:41 |
| kanzure | they don't just sit around for symbolic ai to do everything for them | 22:41 |
| kanzure | lots of schlpes | 22:42 |
| kanzure | schleps | 22:42 |
| fenn | megatherbligs | 22:42 |
| fenn | .d therblig | 22:42 |
| yoleaux | Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'therblig'. | 22:42 |
| fenn | oh come on | 22:42 |
| fenn | .wik therblig | 22:42 |
| yoleaux | "Therbligs are 18 kinds of elemental motions used in the study of motion economy in the workplace. A workplace task is analyzed by recording each of the therblig units for a process, with the results used for optimization of manual labor by eliminating unneeded movements." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therblig | 22:42 |
| kanzure | you're not going to just tap at the right location on the wall and cause the universe to do your bidding for you | 22:43 |
| fenn | so you're arguing that lots of pointing and clicking is a good thing now? | 22:44 |
| kanzure | "Ah, you see, right here is your problem. The universe is out of phase, and if I knock right here in just the right way, everything will get better. I'll send you my invoice." | 22:44 |
| kanzure | i'm not talking about pointing and clicking | 22:44 |
| cpopell`werk | fenn: I think matter compilers are silly, but thanks for linking that concept | 22:44 |
| kanzure | i'm talking about doing shit in a machine shop | 22:44 |
| kanzure | and other shoppy goodness | 22:45 |
| kanzure | you don't just sit around and the world orchestrates around you | 22:45 |
| kanzure | you have to actively engage and push matter and bits and atoms into the right places | 22:45 |
| kanzure | think of it as janitorial work | 22:45 |
| kanzure | there's often a bunch of scrubbing that machines are incapable of doing | 22:45 |
| kanzure | or things that aren't quite scrubbing | 22:45 |
| fenn | .wik scrobbling | 22:46 |
| yoleaux | "Last.fm is a music website, founded in the United Kingdom in 2002. Using a music recommender system called "Audioscrobbler", Last.fm builds a detailed profile of each user's musical taste by recording details of the tracks the user listens to, either from Internet radio stations, or the user's computer or many portable music devices." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrobbling | 22:46 |
| kanzure | also, you could be spending a million years before finding that one place in the wall to knock on | 22:46 |
| fenn | that's not what scrobbling means | 22:46 |
| kanzure | and i'm sort of annoyed that i have to make this argument to you | 22:46 |
| fenn | i don't really get what you're trying to say or why you think you need to tell me? | 22:46 |
| fenn | i built a machine shop by hand, and most recently was about to build a house from dirt by hand | 22:47 |
| kanzure | "finding that one place to knock" sounds exactly like the "well, i need a matter compiler before i'm willing to do any project ever" | 22:47 |
| fenn | you're attributing words to me that i never said | 22:47 |
| kanzure | it was from the other day | 22:47 |
| fenn | you asked, "is it misguided to work on things that don't lead to a matter compiler?" and i answered "possibly, yes" | 22:48 |
| kanzure | 20:24 < kanzure> repeating is compiling it yourself again | 22:48 |
| kanzure | 20:24 < fenn> yes this is why we need a matter compiler | 22:48 |
| kanzure | 20:25 < fenn> it's the whole point | 22:49 |
| fenn | "kanzure> do you think that all effort to build anything is completely misguided, since they are not build | 22:50 |
| fenn | ing a matter compiler" | 22:50 |
| kanzure | so what has changed since you built a house or a machine shop | 22:50 |
| fenn | i wanted to do more | 22:50 |
| fenn | there are lots of tools to make stuff from computer designs, but it takes for fucking ever to get from idea to product | 22:52 |
| kanzure | "doing more" looks a lot like doing nothing | 22:52 |
| fenn | especially when your tools ignore optimizing the manufacturing process | 22:52 |
| fenn | oh, i have been doing absolutely nothing at all for the past year | 22:52 |
| fenn | that's not some kind of argument | 22:52 |
| kanzure | i don't mean specifically the past year | 22:53 |
| kanzure | or any particular past year | 22:53 |
| kanzure | time wasn't what i was trying to point out | 22:53 |
| fenn | yeah there has been a lot of frustration with logistics and mess and not having enough money | 22:54 |
| fenn | which ultimately led to me fleeing to the middle of nowhere and digging in the dirt | 22:54 |
| fenn | i mean, nobody pays you to work on cool stuff | 22:54 |
| fenn | they just want web shopping carts and to show up on time | 22:55 |
| kanzure | my point also wasn't about web shopping carts | 22:56 |
| kanzure | it's about tractability | 22:56 |
| fenn | i think you're projecting something onto me that's not there | 22:59 |
| fenn | like i'm going to join SIAI or something | 22:59 |
| kanzure | as long as the next time you want a pill dispenser you don't say "okay, first let's invent ai", i'm happy | 22:59 |
| kanzure | some asshole named their product "papers" as a competing product to "mendeley" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7741925 | 23:01 |
| fenn | isnt that an old thing? pre-mendeley? | 23:01 |
| kanzure | and it's owned by springer | 23:01 |
| kanzure | nah i think mendeley is from 2006ish? | 23:02 |
| fenn | it was only for mac and then it was canceled or whatever the word is for when software is no longer available | 23:02 |
| cpopell`werk | I've used Qiqqa before | 23:03 |
| fenn | they seem to think you'll be using the multi-colored highlighter a lot in "papers" | 23:08 |
| fenn | anyway it's cool how it auto-downloads a pdf from any url you paste | 23:08 |
| sheena | http://ethology.eu/study-programs/syllabus/ free ethology courses | 23:11 |
| fenn | will it tell me why the cat is meowing | 23:11 |
| kanzure | it will tell you to buy purina-brand meow mix foods | 23:12 |
| sheena | naw, no purina sponsorship | 23:13 |
| jrayhawk | ingredients: purified gliadin | 23:13 |
| fenn | psh they only use high-quality zein, which has no known lethal side effects | 23:13 |
| kanzure | why is pet nutrition simpler than human nutrition | 23:14 |
| fenn | because it's based on science | 23:14 |
| jrayhawk | boards of ethics don't care about animals very much | 23:14 |
| fenn | "Papers was originally released as a public preview in February 2007" | 23:15 |
| kanzure | they deserve no attention because their product name is awful | 23:16 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_reference_management_software | 23:16 |
| sheena | im not sure pet nutrition IS simpler? | 23:16 |
| kanzure | it comes in bags and you feed it to them | 23:17 |
| fenn | sounds simple to me | 23:17 |
| fenn | "do you want the wet stuff or the dry stuff" | 23:17 |
| fenn | i should calculate the completeness of oat waffles using lentils + oats instead of pea protein | 23:18 |
| fenn | "because knowing is half the battle!" | 23:18 |
| kanzure | - wolfram alpha | 23:18 |
| fenn | you mean the least reliable software ever? | 23:19 |
| fenn | .wa amino acid profile of pink lentils | 23:19 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 23:19 |
| fenn | .wa lentils protein content | 23:19 |
| yoleaux | prepared lentil: amount: 130 grams: protein: Average result: 12 grams; Unit conversions: 0.012 kg (kilograms); 0.41 oz (ounces); Comparison to reference daily intake: | daily amount: % daily value; RDA: 50 g/day (grams per day): 23%; DRI (male): 56 g/day (grams per day): 21%; DRI (female): 46 g/day (grams per day): 25%; (RDA: recommended daily allowance; DRI: dietary reference intake) | 23:19 |
| fenn | hmm that's not very much | 23:20 |
| fenn | i didn't know there was actually a RDA for protein | 23:21 |
| fenn | .wa oats protein content | 23:23 |
| yoleaux | oats: amount: 1 cup: protein: Average result: 9.2 grams; Unit conversions: 0.0092 kg (kilograms); 0.32 oz (ounces); Comparison to reference daily intake: | daily amount: % daily value; RDA: 50 g/day (grams per day): 15%; DRI (male): 56 g/day (grams per day): 13%; DRI (female): 46 g/day (grams per day): 16%; (RDA: recommended daily allowance; DRI: dietary reference intake) | 23:23 |
| fenn | i wonder if oats really have that much manganese | 23:25 |
| sheena | i've started taking magnesium | 23:28 |
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| fenn | thoughts? observations? | 23:29 |
| sheena | nothing much yet. no side effects noted. they're big fucking capsules tho | 23:31 |
| sheena | taking 3 in the morning now, 150mg a piece i think | 23:31 |
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| Daeken | sheena: are you testing your magnesium levels? | 23:36 |
| sheena | not at this point, no | 23:36 |
| Daeken | blindly manipulating electrolyte levels is kinda like poking a bear very gently. it may not wake up at all ... but if it does, you probably don't want to be there. | 23:37 |
| fenn | Daeken: it's quite rare that a doctor will have access to a blood NMR machine. serum levels don't reflect tissue magnesium status | 23:37 |
| fenn | adding sodium to your french fries is "blindly manipulating electrolyte levels" | 23:38 |
| fenn | 3 capsules seems like a lot to start out with tho | 23:38 |
| Daeken | fenn: 1) well, "don't reflect" isn't quite right. standard blood serum levels are inaccurate, but not tremendously so. 2) you're talking about drops versus buckets. very different quantities. | 23:39 |
| fenn | 1) no and 2) no | 23:39 |
| Daeken | i mean, eating a banana increases your potasium levels, but i wouldn't hazard against it. i would hazard against a handful of potasium capsules. | 23:39 |
| fenn | bananas don't really have that much potassium | 23:39 |
| fenn | potassium is actually lethal in large quantities, but you have to take "dozens" of capsules | 23:40 |
| Daeken | ... i think you're missing the point :P | 23:40 |
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| fenn | dietary sodium intake in measured in grams; it's easy to add because sodium is readily absorbed as an ion. we have special purpose sodium transporters, (and salt tastes good) because sodium was historically/evolutionarily scarce | 23:45 |
| fenn | magnesium on the other hand is common in leafy plants and water, and tastes not so good. we don't transport it specifically as an ion, but it can catch a ride through a sugar transporter with citrate as the anion. adding citrate bulks it up a lot in mass and volume | 23:47 |
| fenn | the transporters are limited in capacity and if you take too much you will just get diarrhea | 23:47 |
| fenn | if you have too much in your blood you will pee it out in short order, unless you have kidney failure or someone is injecting it into you too fast | 23:48 |
| fenn | the reason people get high blood pressure is because the body expects to have plenty of magnesium and potassium, but not enough sodium, but the situation is the reverse in the modern american diet | 23:49 |
| fenn | kidney symporters are waiting around for a magnesium or potassium to show up, and it never does, so the sodium gets stuck along with the water it carries | 23:49 |
| fenn | meanwhile they pimp calcium supplements to anyone and everyone | 23:51 |
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