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| kanzure | stuff about ultra wide band rf written by spooks http://www.cringely.com/2014/05/15/nsa-help-kill-uwb/ | 06:15 |
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| andytoshi | kanzure: lol! i thought i remembered that thread! | 06:23 |
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| kanzure | what is a W_iso or a S_iso | 07:56 |
| kanzure | something about isoparametry | 07:56 |
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| andytoshi | kanzure: i'd guess related to the shape of those letters | 08:56 |
| * andytoshi hasn't even looked at any chemistry in over a year | 08:56 | |
| kanzure | not chemistry. is computational geometry. | 08:58 |
| kanzure | i have decided that it means west and south. but i don't know why. | 08:59 |
| kanzure | there is also N_iso and E_iso | 08:59 |
| ParahSailin | how do you make flask logger connected to uwsgi logging | 09:02 |
| ParahSailin | i need to do this slightly better than printf statements and 500 errors | 09:02 |
| kanzure | python logging is pretty standardized | 09:03 |
| kanzure | you just need to tell the logging module where you want to dump what sort of filtered logs | 09:03 |
| kanzure | or the channels | 09:04 |
| ParahSailin | ah, apparently there is something in the environment called wsgi.errors that is possibly a pipe? | 09:04 |
| kanzure | take a look at the config here https://docs.python.org/2/library/logging.config.html | 09:04 |
| kanzure | i mean the example config | 09:04 |
| ParahSailin | yeah ive used that module before | 09:05 |
| kanzure | and the "stream :" thing | 09:05 |
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| kanzure | http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/diy-diagnosis-extreme-athlete-uncovered-genetic-flaw-88763/ | 09:23 |
| kanzure | i am not sure if the "spine curves to the left so i try to lean right" thing works | 09:23 |
| ParahSailin | oh, had to make a middleware class to set the logging stream to wsgi.errors | 09:35 |
| ParahSailin | i think that would have been a sensible default for the flask writers to decide | 09:35 |
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| kanzure | "Caution: Do not use -server, -daemon or bitcoind with 0.3.2 or lower." | 10:07 |
| nmz787_i | re silicon-based surfactants 'Most of these surfacatnts can be crystalized in acetone to attain a high purity degree. Some of them are used in pharmacy as antiflatulent surfactants since they are biologically inert.' | 10:08 |
| nmz787_i | and re fluoriunated: 'Hydrogen atoms of the surfactant hydrocarbon tail can be substituted by halogens, particularly F to produce fluorinated hydrophobes, which exhibit properties similar to polymerized tetrafluoroethylene (PTFE), known under the commercial brand name TEFLON: high chemical inertia, mechanical and thermal resistance, low surface energy, thus very high hydrophobicity. As silicon compounds, the fluorinated tails sometime | 10:09 |
| nmz787_i | 'Perfluorinated acid in C5 (n = 2) gives a sodium salt with good surfactant properties. This is perfectly consistent with the fact that its molecular weight (increased by 8 F atoms) is close to sodium palmitate MW. Salts of perfluorinated carboxylic acids are surfactants when they possess from 5 to 9 carbon atoms. These salts are much more dissociated than their hydrocarbon counterparts and tolerate high salinity and divalent cations. | 10:11 |
| nmz787_i | 'Perfluorinated carboxylates and sulfonates produce monolayers with less lateral interactions than their hydrocardon counterparts. They are able to turn a surface non-wettable to both water and organic solvents. They produce a superficial (air-aqueous solution) tension down to 15 mN/m, i.e. twice as low as the value reachable with the best tension reducing hydrocarbon surfactants.' | 10:11 |
| nmz787_i | .wik marcek dekker | 10:18 |
| yoleaux | "Marcel Dekker was a journal and encyclopedia publishing company with editorial boards found in New York, New York. Dekker encyclopedias are now published by CRC Press, part of the Taylor and Francis publishing group." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Dekker | 10:18 |
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| kanzure | there is documentation here now https://www.transcriptic.com/platform/ | 10:58 |
| kanzure | "The DNA Assembly API abstracts over cloning and synthesis and guarantees a sequence-verified product. New DNA enters the aliquot lifecycle suspended in TE buffer." | 11:00 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 11:00 |
| kanzure | "Long-write DNA synthesis can be up to 3 kb per sequence and is priced according to a sliding scale of length and sequence complexity." | 11:00 |
| kanzure | "We run a dry gel format that has two major differences compared to standard gel electrophoresis: the voltage is fixed and the durations are generally much shorter. agarose gels cannot be run for more than 30 minutes." | 11:02 |
| kanzure | "Because of constraints in scheduling, DNA sequencing currently adds around 18 hours on average to a protocol run." | 11:03 |
| nmz787_i | have you heard of .wik richard thieme | 11:35 |
| nmz787_i | .wik richard thieme | 11:35 |
| yoleaux | "Richard Thieme (born 1944), is a former priest who became a commentator on technology and culture, founding the consulting firm ThiemeWorks." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Thieme | 11:35 |
| ezrios | I used to think Richard Thieme was interesting until I actually listened to his talks | 11:39 |
| ezrios | the ideas are there, and they are interesting, but a lot of it is very vague wishy washy woo stuff | 11:40 |
| nmz787_i | ah | 11:40 |
| nmz787_i | I will probably listen to his defcon talk from a few years ago later tonight | 11:40 |
| ezrios | I did enjoy his talk about "The Dark Side" | 11:40 |
| ezrios | or something | 11:40 |
| ezrios | that was actually quite good | 11:41 |
| ezrios | his biohacking one was not | 11:41 |
| nmz787_i | he was praised once or twice on the defcon biohacking village mailing list | 11:46 |
| nmz787_i | it seemed that he influenced the posted to explore biohacking | 11:47 |
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| kanzure | i've spent some time talking with him (at his request) | 11:51 |
| kanzure | yeah i wouldn't recommend listening or watching, it's pretty boring | 11:51 |
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| kanzure | "Bikanta is using nanodiamonds to redefine medical imaging. Those nanodiamonds act as miniature flashlights that can be used to “shine light” on a number of medical problems, including the detection of cancer. And that’s important because the faster you can detect cancer, the more likely you are to successfully treat it. The technology was developed as part of the founder’s post-doctoral study at the National Institute of Health, and ... | 12:44 |
| kanzure | ... they hold key patents in the field. The company is selling into the $12 billion imaging probe and instrumentation market, and already has letters of intent for $3 million worth of nanodiamonds." | 12:44 |
| kanzure | hmm so reflection? or the diamonds have some reaction group inside? | 12:44 |
| kanzure | oh geeze "Vizera has some cool technology that uses projection mapping for designer showrooms. Their software can change the color and patterns projected on furniture so that buyers can see what chairs or couches would look like with certain kinds of fabric. " | 12:45 |
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| kanzure | "One of the first patent pools was formed in 1856, by sewing machine manufacturers Grover, Baker, Singer, and Wheeler & Wilson, all accusing the others of patent infringement. They met in Albany, New York to pursue their suits. Orlando B. Potter, a lawyer and president of the Grover and Baker Company, proposed that, rather than sue their profits out of existence, they pool their patents (See also: Isaac Singer/I. M. Singer & Co)." | 12:55 |
| kanzure | "The MPEG-2 patent pool has also been criticized because by 2015 more than 90% of the MPEG-2 patents will have expired but as long as there are one or more active patents in the MPEG-2 patent pool in either the country of manufacture or the country of sale the MPEG-2 license agreement requires that licensees pay a license fee that does not change based on the number of patents that have expired.[8][9][10][11][12]" | 12:56 |
| kanzure | that is a neat trick | 12:56 |
| * bbrittain hears codec licenses being discussed | 12:59 | |
| bbrittain | MPEG LA is actively evil. | 12:59 |
| kanzure | i would be interested in reading their patent license terms | 13:00 |
| kanzure | but i know i'd have to sacrifice a goat to do that | 13:00 |
| kanzure | "Since January 1, 2010, the MPEG-2 patent pool has remained at $2 for a decoding license and $2 for an encoding license.[28][29][31]" | 13:01 |
| bbrittain | huh, I've gotta update it | 13:02 |
| bbrittain | it's 2.50 now | 13:02 |
| kanzure | codecflation | 13:02 |
| kanzure | approximately how evil are they? actively destroying the world, or good people doing wrong things because broken incentives? | 13:04 |
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| kanzure | hah "A most favorable royalty rates protection is included to assure Licensees that no Licensee will get more favorable royalty rates than another (Section 7.7)." | 13:07 |
| bbrittain | keep in mind I hang out with xiph people... so as in they want to destroy the universe | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | xiph? | 13:09 |
| bbrittain | but probably broken incentives | 13:09 |
| bbrittain | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiph.Org_Foundation | 13:09 |
| kanzure | well, it can also be both | 13:09 |
| ezrios | hm, that richard thieme biohacking talk is not as bad as I recall | 13:10 |
| ezrios | I would still take it with a (large) grain of salt though | 13:10 |
| ezrios | there is some stuff that borders on conspiracy/UFO nonsense | 13:11 |
| kanzure | didn't i recommend not watching :p | 13:11 |
| ezrios | kanzure: I had seen it before | 13:11 |
| ezrios | it just came up on "Watch it Again" on youtube after we talked about it here | 13:11 |
| ezrios | google knows | 13:12 |
| nmz787_i | hah | 13:12 |
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| bbrittain | google knows most everything about everyone | 13:13 |
| nmz787_i | bbrittain: I was just reading about VP8 or VP9 a day or two ago and i seem to remember it saying it required like 4X moer time to decode (or maybe it was encode) and didn't compress as well | 13:14 |
| bbrittain | thats why I don't work on VP8/9 | 13:14 |
| bbrittain | it sucks | 13:14 |
| bbrittain | and the worst part is that people use it as proof that open video codecs can't succeed. | 13:14 |
| bbrittain | or aren't as good as proprietary ones | 13:15 |
| bbrittain | admittedly, theora wasn't a good showing in that department either. | 13:15 |
| bbrittain | but... Daala | 13:15 |
| bbrittain | has serious potential | 13:15 |
| kanzure | so wait, people argue that open source codec implementations don't work, or that open source codec specifications don't specify correctly? | 13:17 |
| bbrittain | no, that something that is developed in the public lacks direction in addition to without having access to the MPEG patent pool is unable to succeed. also something about the economic incentives of the projects | 13:18 |
| kanzure | i could maybe buy the patent pool argument because it's possible that they patented compression entirely or something, but i dunno about the other points | 13:18 |
| kanzure | "lacks direction" is an unfortunate perception | 13:20 |
| bbrittain | It's amazing how much work we do to get around patents | 13:20 |
| bbrittain | but, we do | 13:20 |
| kanzure | does MPEG LA also sell implementations? | 13:21 |
| bbrittain | I don't think so | 13:22 |
| bbrittain | but not sure | 13:22 |
| bbrittain | but lets stop talking about this. not only does it make me angry, I'm reading molecular bio books right now. I'm switching careers this week. | 13:23 |
| kanzure | now you get to substitute software patents for terrible biotech patents and dna patents, congratulations | 13:23 |
| bbrittain | :( | 13:24 |
| bbrittain | question, how bad are they if you aren't trying to directly do pharmaceuticals. | 13:27 |
| bbrittain | are they still dreadful? | 13:27 |
| kanzure | patents on individual genes, including quantification/detection tests | 13:27 |
| kanzure | pre-existing genes, i might add | 13:27 |
| bbrittain | yea.... thats what I thought. T_T | 13:28 |
| bbrittain | HOW STUPID CAN PEOPLE BE | 13:28 |
| bbrittain | ARGH | 13:28 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: btw, they released some documentation https://www.transcriptic.com/platform/ | 13:28 |
| kanzure | their api design is a little bit weird, to be honest | 13:28 |
| kanzure | especially considering it's supposed to be their whole job | 13:28 |
| kanzure | but they have added things | 13:29 |
| bbrittain | so, can I just do this _right now_ | 13:29 |
| kanzure | hm? | 13:29 |
| kanzure | i believe the answer is technically no: there are inputs required that presumably you have to ship to their facility first | 13:29 |
| bbrittain | like. let's say I wanted to use their biobanking stuff | 13:29 |
| kanzure | i dunno if they have a bank of anything, other than reagents | 13:30 |
| bbrittain | can I send them a single sample and as long as I pay, trust it will be there? | 13:30 |
| bbrittain | https://www.transcriptic.com/pricing/#storage | 13:30 |
| kanzure | oh they have dna synthesis, so there's that | 13:30 |
| kanzure | yes i believe that's true | 13:30 |
| bbrittain | well, I'm about to get my wisdom teeth out... soo... I could store my pluripotent cells with them :P | 13:31 |
| kanzure | well you should store them somewhere | 13:31 |
| bbrittain | obv. | 13:31 |
| chris_99 | under a pillow? | 13:31 |
| kanzure | "There are three types of liquid handlers at Transcriptic: Tecan air displacement pipettors (Tecan ADP), Labcyte Echo 525 Acoustic Droplet Ejection (Echo ADE) instruments, and manual pipettors operated by lab technicians" | 13:31 |
| kanzure | "lab technicians" | 13:32 |
| bbrittain | chris_99: I'm not sure the $1 for my stem cells is a worth while trade. the tooth fairy is gonna have to up her prices | 13:32 |
| kanzure | "DNA synthesis is a known hard problem. Transcriptic does not possess magical synthesis technology that will make your high-GC-and-laden-with-hairpin sequences work." | 13:33 |
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| kanzure | hmm "Synthesis orders are automatically analyzed and specific sequences may be rejected by Transcriptic after review" | 13:33 |
| chris_99 | haha bbrittain | 13:33 |
| kanzure | "In general, if you need branching logic in the middle of a protocol (e.g., atomically transforming one resource into another or gathering data), it's a sign something was poorly designed. Ideally protocols should be linear workflows whose only logic may be assertions about whether a step fails, but shouldn't otherwise have multiple destinies." | 13:33 |
| bbrittain | :/ | 13:33 |
| kanzure | upload-the-entire protocol seems a little weird | 13:34 |
| bbrittain | is that accurate? seem silly to me | 13:34 |
| kanzure | i mean, it's just an api, i just need to touch their noodly appendages when i have time reserved | 13:34 |
| bbrittain | elaborate on "noodly appendages" | 13:34 |
| kanzure | lab equipment | 13:35 |
| bbrittain | as in physically touch it? | 13:35 |
| kanzure | i was talking about an api | 13:35 |
| kanzure | look at their api | 13:35 |
| kanzure | you submit a json document with instructions | 13:35 |
| kanzure | no callbacks after each step | 13:35 |
| kanzure | i'm sure it's easier to deal with on their end | 13:36 |
| bbrittain | I'm gonna go read the doc before I ask any stupid questions | 13:37 |
| bbrittain | nice. | 13:39 |
| bbrittain | Aliquots are owned by organizations | 13:39 |
| bbrittain | I like that | 13:39 |
| drazak | kanzure: this seems pretty much like what was envisioned years ago | 13:39 |
| kanzure | drazak: yep.. | 13:40 |
| kanzure | except they have funding | 13:40 |
| kanzure | and equipment | 13:40 |
| drazak | pretty cool | 13:41 |
| bbrittain | I despise this API | 13:41 |
| kanzure | hah | 13:41 |
| drazak | I wonder if we were a little more dedicated and if I w2as a lot less lazy we could have gotten funding | 13:41 |
| kanzure | yeah, it seems backwards in bunches of ways | 13:41 |
| drazak | who the fuck cares as long as it works, but that's just me I guess | 13:41 |
| bbrittain | like... what happens if you submit a bad command? or even like a 'a' instead of '30' | 13:41 |
| bbrittain | is there a linter? | 13:41 |
| kanzure | they probably evaluate the protocol upfront | 13:41 |
| kanzure | i mean, i agree, i don't like this protocol format | 13:42 |
| kanzure | i am not going to go convert all known protocols into this format.. | 13:42 |
| kanzure | jcline did some work parsing protocols into a standard format | 13:42 |
| bbrittain | also, fuck json. It's so overused in all the wrong situations | 13:42 |
| kanzure | http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/290 | 13:42 |
| kanzure | .title | 13:42 |
| yoleaux | Don’t Train the Biology Robot: Have the Machine Read the Protocol and Automate Itself – 88 Proof Synth Bio Blog | 13:42 |
| kanzure | i mean, i'm not very happy with a custom grammar either | 13:43 |
| bbrittain | a custom grammar is meh, but wouldn't stop me from using it | 13:44 |
| bbrittain | that seems great! | 13:44 |
| bbrittain | why doesn't everyone use it? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | what happens when your asshole grammar becomes turing complete, are your users going to voluntarily stop using it because they understand that feature creep is extremely burdensome? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | iirc people don't use it because he didn't release it | 13:45 |
| * bbrittain throws my arms in the air | 13:46 | |
| bbrittain | like... this probably isn't that hard | 13:46 |
| kanzure | oh sure | 13:46 |
| kanzure | it is doable | 13:46 |
| kanzure | i don't remember why i haven't | 13:47 |
| bbrittain | I'll try it in a few months if I have time. I'm not sure I'm familiar enough with reading protocols right now | 13:48 |
| bbrittain | or understand what I'm doing :P | 13:48 |
| kanzure | oh it is very simple actually | 13:48 |
| kanzure | my suggestion is to make it up, without knowing how it works | 13:48 |
| kanzure | and without looking | 13:48 |
| kanzure | because everyone else who has looked can't come up with good ideas anymore | 13:49 |
| * bbrittain can do | 13:49 | |
| kanzure | there are some general principles that i'm sure can be imagined about science things you might need to do with science artifacts | 13:49 |
| kanzure | also, ideally, codified instructions (if that's the right metaphor) should apply for automation scenarios and non-automation scenarios (humans doing things from a screen telling them things to do) | 13:50 |
| bbrittain | sorry, but I don't like this line "The computer scientists should force the machines to work for the biologists, rather than expect the biologists to learn the machines." | 13:51 |
| kanzure | he has some good arguments about that actually | 13:51 |
| bbrittain | such as? | 13:51 |
| kanzure | his background is electrical engineering, software, and then spent lots of time in a molecular biology lab | 13:51 |
| kanzure | well, because he saw first hand how biologists interact with computers | 13:52 |
| kanzure | it was based on evidence not based on wishful thinking | 13:52 |
| bbrittain | send biologists to computer bootcamps | 13:52 |
| bbrittain | dammit. now I'm thinking about bio/computer people problems and not protein signaling. :/ | 13:54 |
| kanzure | handwave about ligands and g coupled stuff | 13:55 |
| bbrittain | pshaw. people already think I know biology already. now I need to actually learn it | 13:56 |
| kanzure | this is more interesting: | 13:56 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_three_secretion_system | 13:56 |
| bbrittain | I have mad handwaving skils | 13:56 |
| bbrittain | wtf | 13:57 |
| bbrittain | also, Why is it relevant they are gram-negative? what does that actually mean beyond the fact they don't have that stain? | 13:57 |
| ParahSailin | fuck yeah | 13:57 |
| bbrittain | nvm. wikipedia to the rescue | 13:58 |
| drazak | bbrittain: different composition of cell membrane | 13:58 |
| drazak | its been years but iirc gram negative bacteria only have a phosopholipid bilayer | 13:58 |
| drazak | and gram positive have some more stuff | 13:59 |
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| bbrittain | also, this is ridiculous. I read a some then look up a word... which I spend 20 minutes on following links to figure out what it actually does | 14:06 |
| kanzure | what was the word? | 14:07 |
| bbrittain | this time? Janus kinase | 14:08 |
| kanzure | you might prefer to read about enzymes through ECC really | 14:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.brenda-enzymes.org/information/all_enzymes.php4 | 14:09 |
| kanzure | there was a tree somewhere | 14:09 |
| bbrittain | so. many. | 14:09 |
| kanzure | like on the left here http://www.ebi.ac.uk/pdbe-srv/PDBeXplore/enzyme/ | 14:10 |
| bbrittain | wat. applet | 14:10 |
| bbrittain | to view | 14:10 |
| bbrittain | no | 14:10 |
| kanzure | oh right, bioinformatics had an applet phase | 14:11 |
| kanzure | and a perl/cgi phase | 14:11 |
| kanzure | it is still somewhat of a perl/cgi phase | 14:11 |
| bbrittain | I've helped contribute to that phase :/ | 14:11 |
| kanzure | better formatted tree http://enzyme.expasy.org/enzyme-byclass.html | 14:12 |
| bbrittain | ohh. that is much better | 14:12 |
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| bbrittain | also, I'm realizing I might need to improve my ochem knowledge | 14:13 |
| bbrittain | :P | 14:13 |
| bbrittain | also, is the openpcr project any good? | 14:16 |
| kanzure | adobe air | 14:17 |
| bbrittain | whyyyyy | 14:17 |
| kanzure | they use a laser cutter which increases their cost a bunch | 14:17 |
| kanzure | openpcr is less awful than a bunch of other commercial options | 14:18 |
| bbrittain | ok, I've seen 2 projects in this space written in adobe air now. | 14:19 |
| kanzure | you know, i thought they picked adobe air because derp, but now that i think about it, i bet they picked it because of the autodesk people that were walking through biocurious | 14:19 |
| bbrittain | if this is common, I may just quit now. | 14:20 |
| kanzure | this applies more to "Genome Compiler Corp LLC Inc" than openpcr | 14:20 |
| kanzure | nope, these are the only two projects that use adobe air in this space | 14:20 |
| bbrittain | also, Genome Compiler is utter bullshit, right? | 14:20 |
| kanzure | of course | 14:20 |
| bbrittain | damn, my bullshit detector is on a roll | 14:20 |
| bbrittain | wait. but if I feel this way without any experience in this space... WHY DO THEY HAVE FUNDING?! | 14:21 |
| kanzure | they might have picked adobe air because they are morons, or because "hur dur autodesk will fund us because we're using their platform and stuff" | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | iirc transcriptic was using Scala | 14:21 |
| kanzure | because funding works differently | 14:21 |
| kanzure | am not talking about transcriptic.com | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | nope | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | i know that | 14:21 |
| kanzure | ok | 14:21 |
| bbrittain | nmz787_i: scala is fine | 14:21 |
| bbrittain | I don't like it | 14:21 |
| bbrittain | but it's not a stupid choice | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | i remember them talking about it for protocol safety | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | something about how strongly typed it was | 14:22 |
| nmz787_i | or something | 14:22 |
| kanzure | oh brother | 14:22 |
| kanzure | yes they did talk about that, it's true | 14:22 |
| * bbrittain sighs | 14:22 | |
| nmz787_i | so I presume they check the protocols on upload | 14:22 |
| kanzure | but their reasons were pathetic | 14:22 |
| nmz787_i | i hope so | 14:22 |
| kanzure | you can check protocols even without static typing | 14:22 |
| kanzure | or strong typing | 14:22 |
| * kanzure winces | 14:22 | |
| bbrittain | well, they should use idris :P | 14:22 |
| nmz787_i | supposedly maryadd is heading up the parsing revolution | 14:23 |
| bbrittain | I mean, how can they verify anything without dependent typing? | 14:23 |
| nmz787_i | security-through-parsing | 14:23 |
| bbrittain | maryadd? | 14:23 |
| nmz787_i | mlp? | 14:23 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, those terms do nothing for googl | 14:24 |
| bbrittain | still confused | 14:24 |
| kanzure | maradydd is a person | 14:24 |
| kanzure | she does stuff | 14:24 |
| nmz787_i | ah | 14:24 |
| nmz787_i | i was wrong | 14:25 |
| bbrittain | ahh | 14:25 |
| nmz787_i | .wik Meredith_L._Patterson | 14:26 |
| yoleaux | "Meredith L. Patterson (born April 30, 1977) is an American technologist, science fiction writer, and journalist. She has spoken at numerous industry conferences on a wide range of topics. She is also a blogger and software developer, and a leading figure in the biopunk movement." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_L._Patterson | 14:26 |
| nmz787_i | a lot of people referred to that biopunk manifesto at defcon, but I can't really see what the big deal with it is | 14:27 |
| kanzure | "she has spoken at conferences" is such a shitty way to start her bio | 14:27 |
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| bbrittain | am I alone in liking the term biopunk? | 14:28 |
| kanzure | is that important | 14:29 |
| nmz787_i | are normal punks that aren't robots also biopunks? | 14:29 |
| nmz787_i | hah 'calls self anarchist, pays for taxes on cigarettes' | 14:30 |
| bbrittain | not particularly, but I am of the opinion that labels can really define a movement, especially one that is as nascent as this | 14:30 |
| bbrittain | ... but that is all pure bullshit | 14:30 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://www.imdb.com/list/ls054304342/ | 14:30 |
| yoleaux | IMDb: Movies for the Biopunks | 14:30 |
| bbrittain | damn. I could make a better list than that | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | do it | 14:31 |
| bbrittain | first: GATTACA, second: bladerunner | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | as for now, I think I'll start checking off the few on that list I've not seen | 14:31 |
| kanzure | what a boring list who the hell hasn't seen those each a million times | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | meh bladerunner sucked | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | the book was better | 14:32 |
| bbrittain | the book was different | 14:32 |
| bbrittain | ftfy | 14:32 |
| kanzure | i mean the gattaca/bladerunner list | 14:32 |
| kanzure | there's only so many times.. | 14:32 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: LIES | 14:32 |
| bbrittain | but I do agree | 14:32 |
| nmz787_i | I haven't seen 'body melt' | 14:32 |
| chris_99 | this could be cool - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2884206/?ref_=nv_sr_1 i origins | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | oO | 14:34 |
| nmz787_i | 'The Tingler' with Vincent Price sounds good | 14:35 |
| nmz787_i | hah they have the pokemon movie on that biopunk list | 14:36 |
| chris_99 | i've got one based on some of John Lillys stuff ;) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080360/?ref_=nv_sr_1 Altered States | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | i think I watched that recently | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | psh, twelve monkeys isn't on that list | 14:37 |
| chris_99 | you seen A Scanner Darkly | 14:39 |
| bbrittain | nmz787_i: is that really biopunk? | 14:39 |
| bbrittain | cyberpunk more like | 14:39 |
| bbrittain | actually, I might take bladerunner off my list | 14:40 |
| chris_99 | why | 14:41 |
| chris_99 | that had biohacking in | 14:41 |
| chris_99 | or whatever you want to call it ;) they made weird creatures | 14:41 |
| bbrittain | kindaa | 14:42 |
| nmz787_i | bbrittain: are you talking about 12 monkeys? | 14:43 |
| nmz787_i | bbrittain: the whole story was based on bioterrorists... are you saying that aren't punks? | 14:44 |
| nmz787_i | which is certainly disputable | 14:44 |
| chris_99 | oh yeah thats true heh | 14:44 |
| chris_99 | i forgot about that | 14:44 |
| nmz787_i | osama bin punk'in | 14:44 |
| chris_99 | haha | 14:44 |
| bbrittain | nmz787_i: right, but I think it may miss the whole aesthetic, no? Is not specific bioware really the focus, or is it more about the time travely/has no idea what is going on. | 14:46 |
| chris_99 | remember there was also the germ warfare side too | 14:46 |
| chris_99 | or whatever that dude had | 14:47 |
| bbrittain | then something like I am Legend would also be biopunk | 14:47 |
| bbrittain | uhh | 14:47 |
| bbrittain | mabye I need to rewatch it | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | yeah i am legend deff bio-something | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | idk I always thought 12 monkeys was biotech centric | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | the time travel seemed more of a standard-issue theme to me | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | since it was after back to the future | 14:47 |
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| nmz787_i | in the venn-diagram of biotech-related movies, I like several of the graph-hops-away-from-the-centroid | 14:49 |
| chris_99 | does Fear and loathing, Requiem for a dream etc. count as biopunk | 14:49 |
| nmz787_i | oO yeah | 14:49 |
| nmz787_i | and the Super Mario Bros movie | 14:50 |
| chris_99 | haha | 14:50 |
| nmz787_i | idk 'punk' invokes thoughts of slackers and laziness to me | 14:51 |
| nmz787_i | anarchists that don't do much but complain and drain | 14:51 |
| chris_99 | Slackers is a good film, not related to biotech though | 14:51 |
| kanzure | you guys have really low standards | 14:52 |
| chris_99 | *Slacker | 14:52 |
| chris_99 | The Anarchist Cookbook is amusing just because it's so bad | 14:54 |
| chris_99 | (the film) | 14:54 |
| nmz787_i | if 'punk' evaluates to cry-about-it-some-more-slacker then I guess Idiocracy is prefixed by that | 14:55 |
| nmz787_i | sort of | 14:56 |
| bbrittain | I resent that definition of punk as an anarchist who just complains a lot | 14:57 |
| bbrittain | I tweet a lot about ferguson though | 14:57 |
| bbrittain | awww come'on. that was funny | 14:59 |
| nmz787_i | ? | 14:59 |
| nmz787_i | who/what is ferguson? | 14:59 |
| nmz787_i | cat ferguson? | 14:59 |
| bbrittain | -_- | 14:59 |
| bbrittain | http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/justice/what-we-know-about-ferguson/index.html | 15:00 |
| bbrittain | essentially this town is under military law and in open revolt | 15:00 |
| bbrittain | my twitter feed is pretty much just this and gaza stuff right now | 15:01 |
| bbrittain | it's awful | 15:01 |
| nmz787_i | if that dude would have been home on the internet programming, this wouldn't have happened | 15:01 |
| kanzure | uh.. | 15:02 |
| kanzure | hackers are persecuted too you moron | 15:02 |
| kanzure | but also there are many other reasons why that idea is bad | 15:02 |
| nmz787_i | it was sarcasm | 15:03 |
| kanzure | like, wasn't there an entire police force that has never carried fire arms for hundreds of years, why is that off the table | 15:03 |
| nmz787_i | is that in like, england? | 15:03 |
| * bbrittain mutters about no police force | 15:03 | |
| kanzure | i think england changed recently(?) | 15:03 |
| nmz787_i | where they don't have a second amendment | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | most police officers don't carry guns in the UK still | 15:04 |
| kanzure | just because they don't have a second amendment doesn't mean they are bulletproof officers | 15:05 |
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| bbrittain | not yet at least | 15:07 |
| bbrittain | give it 20 years. they'll be bullet proof and have skull canons | 15:07 |
| bbrittain | :P | 15:07 |
| kanzure | too bad tesla never was able to line all the roads with giant tesla coils | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i | no, I mean it means that weapons aren't protected as a keystone of the memes that are central to the nation | 15:07 |
| kanzure | you could mount weapons to or near each of the coils | 15:07 |
| kanzure | and then nearby citizens can just do time share or open allocation of weapons | 15:07 |
| kanzure | and have an eternal standoff and threat of violence the proper way to encourage business | 15:08 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: cannons | 15:08 |
| kanzure | unless you mean the camera | 15:08 |
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| kanzure | bbrittain: personally i think most of the protocols should be pruned | 15:30 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: so that the ones that work less than 100% of the time can be trashed | 15:31 |
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| kanzure | heh time knows no bounds to irony | 15:51 |
| kanzure | http://www.uilabs.org/announcement/AVM_PR_061214.pdf | 15:51 |
| kanzure | these guys got the contract for the last phase of darpa avm/ifab/vehicleforge | 15:51 |
| kanzure | and they hired someone who apparently wasn't aware of my vehicleforge proposals but is aware of my software background and cad background | 15:52 |
| nmz787_i | bbrittain: mark fraunfelder tweeted this http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html | 15:53 |
| nmz787_i | 'Video of Ferguson police gassing news crew and dismantling their equipment' | 15:53 |
| bbrittain | nmz787_i: yup | 15:59 |
| bbrittain | it's awful | 16:00 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: that make sense | 16:00 |
| bbrittain | do many fail? | 16:00 |
| nmz787_i | is it just white people gone crazy? | 16:08 |
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| ParahSailin | why are there news crews without gas masks? | 16:19 |
| ParahSailin | and of course its al jazeera that came prepared, as usual | 16:19 |
| kanzure | someone should do an advertisement for beautiful gas masks | 16:21 |
| kanzure | make it a fashion | 16:21 |
| kanzure | "Protest in style" | 16:21 |
| kanzure | cc nsh | 16:21 |
| ParahSailin | i bet russia wishes they had black kgb agents to send to ferguson now | 16:23 |
| * nsh nods | 16:23 | |
| kanzure | hmm | 16:27 |
| ParahSailin | nah, i bet russia has an exchange program with cuba | 16:27 |
| kanzure | funny how life works out re: darpa avm/ifab/vehicleforge | 16:28 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: yes many fail. ask ParahSailin. | 16:29 |
| ParahSailin | what fail? | 16:29 |
| kanzure | protocols | 16:29 |
| kanzure | petri dish swirling | 16:30 |
| kanzure | black magic | 16:30 |
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| kanzure | hmm so darpa doesn't really know what to do with all of the avm/ifab assets | 16:44 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_Vehicle_Make | 17:00 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: also ask yashgaroth about failure rates of standard lab protocols | 17:00 |
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| dingo_ | https://maze.io/i/i.has.floppy.png | 17:34 |
| dingo_ | ^ friend of mine made a parser for C64 text art | 17:34 |
| kanzure | bleeding edge | 17:35 |
| bbrittain | https://backpackbang.com/ | 17:45 |
| bbrittain | yes. a YC smuggling company | 17:45 |
| bbrittain | my life is complete | 17:45 |
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| bbrittain | after attempting to sign up, I change my mind | 17:52 |
| bbrittain | why would I sign up for a smuggling company? like... this seems like an intricate trap. | 17:53 |
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| kanzure | "it's like uber for smuggling" | 18:06 |
| kanzure | generic models of some hardware parts in lisp http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/darpa/avm/meta/meta/draw/models/ | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | lisp modelica stuff http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/darpa/avm/meta/meta/envisioner/ | 18:31 |
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| bbrittain | I'm trying to go to https://ubiome.com/ | 18:52 |
| bbrittain | does the site look broken for other people? | 18:53 |
| kanzure | you should check the dirt on ubiome that was emailed to diybio | 18:55 |
| bbrittain | oh? link? | 18:56 |
| bbrittain | I think all I do in this channel is either say "link?" or "elaborate?" | 18:57 |
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| kanzure | hmm | 19:08 |
| kanzure | "$89 for a full 16S rRNA profile at uBiome, or $99 at American Gut. Yes, you can probably DIY a cheaper test that gives you far, far less information. But for something as truly complex as the microbiome, I would have very little faith in a test that only looks at a couple specific lineages. I work with metagenomes for my day job, so on this one I actually know whereof I speak (usually, I just spout off on topics I know nothing about. ;-)" | 19:09 |
| kanzure | "(6) 16S deep sequencing - which is what uBiome and American Gut are doing. They're getting as significant volume discount, and are not making much if any profit at $89-99/sample, so I highly doubt you'd be able to do any better." | 19:09 |
| kanzure | no that wasn't it... | 19:09 |
| kanzure | oh hmm | 19:10 |
| kanzure | "My thoughts: uBiome is a Silicon Valley startup run by ex- and current academics and entrepreneurs. American Gut seems to be a largely academic and East coast influenced endeavor." | 19:10 |
| kanzure | huh well i can't find the dirt | 19:12 |
| kanzure | now that i think about it, it was possibly dirt on american gut instead | 19:12 |
| ParahSailin | i trust that those assays are at least ngs of some form right? | 19:13 |
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| kanzure | http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/16/ubiome-launch/ | 19:13 |
| kanzure | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/american-gut-what-s-in-your-gut--7 | 19:13 |
| kanzure | hmm sorry i dunno | 19:14 |
| bbrittain | what sorta data do they give? anyone on here actually used it? | 19:14 |
| bbrittain | I've greatly enjoyed my 23andMe results | 19:15 |
| ParahSailin | ok http://supportres.illumina.com/documents/documentation/chemistry_documentation/16s/16s-metagenomic-library-prep-guide-15044223-b.pdf | 19:15 |
| ParahSailin | so basically they both run this kit for you and presumably have different bioinfo guys interpreting it for you | 19:16 |
| kanzure | right | 19:16 |
| bbrittain | that seems... sketchy | 19:16 |
| ParahSailin | 23andme runs the beadchip for you and doesnt even interpet it for you anymore | 19:17 |
| kanzure | they are just doing grouped sequencing runs to loewr the average cost per participant | 19:17 |
| kanzure | *lower | 19:17 |
| kanzure | they should have called themselves upoop | 19:17 |
| kanzure | p2p fecal matter transplants and sequencing | 19:18 |
| bbrittain | like taskrabbit for your fecal matter | 19:18 |
| kanzure | i pay them enough that they damn well better should do my fecal matter or anything else i ask | 19:19 |
| bbrittain | since there are two of them we could make a yelp for picking your fecal matter examiners | 19:19 |
| kanzure | their new ui sucks | 19:19 |
| bbrittain | their CSS won't load. wat. | 19:20 |
| kanzure | and you can't reserve them for specific times, only four hour blocks now :( | 19:20 |
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| kanzure | .title http://wacco.mveas.com/ | 20:52 |
| yoleaux | Home of Project VGA, the Low Budget, Open Source, VGA Compatible video card | 20:52 |
| kanzure | http://zet.aluzina.org/index.php/Zet_processor | 20:52 |
| kanzure | .title http://gplgpu.com/?p=88 | 20:52 |
| yoleaux | GPLGPU now available | 20:52 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/asicguy/gplgpu | 20:53 |
| kanzure | i see okay separation of modules | 20:56 |
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| dingo_ | openbsd does a good job of allowing you to run X11 as non-root | 22:20 |
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| dingo_ | american gut is nice | 22:22 |
| kanzure | "21 years ago I was in a Korean shipyard where the largest container ships of the day were being built. Their capacity was 6000 TEUs, one-third of the Mary Maersk. The captain of one of the ships (a 27 year old (!) German woman) told me most ports cannot handle the 6000 TEU vessels, so their line will be building mainly 4500 TEU ships." | 22:27 |
| kanzure | "One interesting thing is that those older, smaller ships had more powerful engines than the much larger current vessels! The engine installed on the 6000 TEU vessel was ~90,000 hp, and the ship was designed for sailing at ~25 knots, the justification being that the value of cargo onboard was so high that the cost of shipping was dominated by the interest charges!" | 22:27 |
| kanzure | "Interesting to note - the change in interest rates therefore has an impact on the size of ship engines, with lower interest rates resulting in smaller engines (or perhaps engines being run at more efficient speeds in terms of fuel consumption)" | 22:27 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 20 00:00:40 2014 | ||
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