| --- Log opened Thu Nov 13 00:00:49 2014 | ||
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| superkuh | paperbot: http://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X%2814%2900357-X/pdf | 00:34 |
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| NilsHitze | re | 02:17 |
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| NilsHitze | out of curiosity what is your take on the three laws of Transhumanism? | 02:48 |
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| archels | .gc "singulitarian" | 03:28 |
| yoleaux | 6,460 (site), 149 (end), 46 (api) | 03:28 |
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| kanzure | ergh https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/5265 | 05:34 |
| kanzure | NilsADK: hi | 05:37 |
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| kanzure | archels: i believe you may be interested in "singularitariati" | 06:28 |
| fenn | .gc "singularitariati" | 06:32 |
| yoleaux | 0 (site) | 06:32 |
| kanzure | can't have no proper conspiracy if it's out there in the open | 06:33 |
| fenn | i thought it was like "glitterati" | 06:35 |
| fenn | "A Convergence of Technology and Luxury" | 06:35 |
| fenn | "people who are famous, wealthy, and attractive" | 06:36 |
| fenn | hey that's attractivist! and luxurist! | 06:36 |
| fenn | washington post had the french president watching comet landing with goofy 3D glasses directly opposite from starving ebola africans | 06:38 |
| fenn | NilsADK: i've never heard of "the three laws" before, but it sounds like Zoltan Istvan is trolling someone | 06:39 |
| fenn | there's a big difference between "should" and "Must" | 06:41 |
| fenn | i agree that "taking scientifically constructive action to attain immortality is vital and should be a transhumanist's priority." | 06:41 |
| fenn | but the three laws formulation is douchey | 06:42 |
| kanzure | NilsADK: have a thing http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 06:42 |
| * eudoxia has never heard of this guy before | 06:44 | |
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| eudoxia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transhumanist_Wager | 06:46 |
| eudoxia | >Transhumania | 06:46 |
| eudoxia | jesus christ | 06:46 |
| eudoxia | oh dear god it gets worse In my view the novel is full of interesting and controversial contradictions. For example, on the one hand Zoltan Istvan is a philosophically sophisticated author using elements from Plato’s Republic, Nietzsche’s Overman (Übermensch), Thomas Moore’s Utopia, Zen Buddhism and other eastern and western philosophies. On the other hand Zoltan has chosen to give us a kind | 06:47 |
| eudoxia | of simplistic, Atlas Shrugged-style of a plot in its black-and-white depiction of an evil government and the lone hero who dares to stand up to it. Regardless of my personal views, however, I enjoyed reading the book and believe that it does a good job of mapping out the dangerous period that our civilization will have to navigate in the next several decades. | 06:48 |
| eudoxia | meant to paste http://transhumanistwagerguide.com/ | 06:48 |
| fenn | something about straw man arguments | 06:50 |
| fenn | .gc omnipotender | 06:52 |
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| yoleaux | 6,220 (site), 267 (end), 42 (api) | 06:52 |
| fenn | that's on par with "singularitarian" | 06:52 |
| eudoxia | ughhhh making up new words? | 06:53 |
| eudoxia | he sounds worse than charles stross | 06:53 |
| fenn | at least stross mimicked actual transhumanists | 06:53 |
| fenn | this guy is just making up inflammatory rhetoric | 06:54 |
| eudoxia | hey i liked the bit with the tiplerist church from accelerando | 06:54 |
| fenn | yeah that's my point, it's a real thing, tipler is a real person who said stuff like that | 06:54 |
| fenn | nobody goes around saying "we must become omnipotent with expedience!" | 06:55 |
| fenn | or if they do, they do it with some sense of self-awareness | 06:55 |
| eudoxia | well, except maybe the transtopia people | 06:55 |
| eudoxia | i wonder of mike anissimov has changed his opinion of Dalibor den Otter now that he's a neo-reo | 06:57 |
| fenn | "Plastination as a cryonics alternative"? | 06:57 |
| fenn | i'm not seeing the connection | 06:58 |
| eudoxia | he ran the transtopia site, a kind of precursor to neo-reactionary transhumanism | 07:00 |
| fenn | heh ok i see http://transtopia.net/pcfreezone.html | 07:02 |
| eudoxia | the one thing i remember from that site is "masturbation is better than the real thing, who needs women ;___;" | 07:03 |
| fenn | brain stimulation is better than "the real thing" (whatever that is) | 07:03 |
| fenn | i'd like to meet a real life Louis Wu | 07:04 |
| eudoxia | why | 07:04 |
| kanzure | charles stross just panders too much | 07:04 |
| fenn | to see if a person can actually function while in a constant state of ecstasy | 07:05 |
| fenn | hm internet is failing me. Louis Wu is a guy with a brain implant constantly stimulating his pleasure center | 07:06 |
| eudoxia | yes, a wirehead | 07:07 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: panders to whom? | 07:07 |
| fenn | there have been real-life wireheads but always in some fucked up puritannical context where you either get reward or not depending on some other person's preconceived notions abotu what you should do | 07:07 |
| PoorYorrick | fenn: link? | 07:08 |
| fenn | 1972: A 24-year-old man with temporal lobe epilepsy, identified as patient "B-19". "He was permitted to wear the device for 3 hours at a time: on one occasion he stimulated his septal region 1,200 times, on another occasion 1,500 times, and on a third occasion 900 times. He protested each time the unit was taken from him, pleading to self-stimulate just a few more times... " | 07:10 |
| fenn | http://www.quora.com/Bradley-Voytek/Posts/The-most-unethical-study-Ive-ever-seen | 07:10 |
| kanzure | "PLEASURE CENTER" | 07:11 |
| PoorYorrick | fenn: thanks | 07:11 |
| kanzure | "well general, you can see here that these regions light up on in the big clicking machine" | 07:11 |
| fenn | kanzure: i didn't invent the phrase | 07:12 |
| kanzure | oh, i'm sure you didn't | 07:13 |
| PoorYorrick | Reminds me of something similar done to a gay guy. They stuck an electrode in his brain and brought in a female prostitute; stimulating him to the point of orgasm apparently turned him into a bisexual (thus not "curing" his homosexuality). | 07:15 |
| kanzure | oh please, that's the stupidest thing i've heard. | 07:15 |
| kanzure | why are you bring that up. did you think that orgasms were magical? wtf | 07:15 |
| fenn | this is the same "experiment" if you'd actually read the link | 07:15 |
| PoorYorrick | No, I mean they used an electrode. Still reading the link. | 07:15 |
| PoorYorrick | Oh, so it is. Heh | 07:16 |
| kanzure | your other points are awful and show terrible reasoning | 07:16 |
| eudoxia | >"Excuse me, miss? My name is Dr. Heath. I've got a young, gay man hooked up to a brain stimulator back in the hospital. He's been stimulating himself stupid horny these last few days. If I give you $40 would you mind coming back with me and see if you can't screw him straight-wise? Be sure to mind the wires because they're hooked right into his brain." | 07:16 |
| PoorYorrick | ? | 07:16 |
| eudoxia | ayy | 07:16 |
| fenn | kanzure: who are you talking to? | 07:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: to PoorYorrick | 07:17 |
| PoorYorrick | Terrible reasoning? WTF? | 07:17 |
| PoorYorrick | fenn just confirmed that what I said happened and is detailed in the link... | 07:17 |
| fenn | well, not really, he was still gay | 07:17 |
| kanzure | i don't care if it actually happened or not. lots of stupid conclusions are drawn all the time. | 07:18 |
| PoorYorrick | It wasn't *my* conclusion. Just recollection of what I read long ago. | 07:18 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5007439 | 07:19 |
| fenn | (not that we can exactly trust this paper to be truthful) | 07:19 |
| kanzure | do you really think his sexual preferences were changed after the experiment? wtf can your evidence possibly be | 07:19 |
| eudoxia | having sex with a female prostitute while under the wire doesn't strictly make you bisexual | 07:19 |
| PoorYorrick | kanzure, what I "think" is irrelevant | 07:19 |
| kanzure | you're not showing much thought dude | 07:19 |
| PoorYorrick | kanzure, you're showing much aggression, dude. Is there a problem? | 07:20 |
| kanzure | YES there is a HUGE problem | 07:20 |
| PoorYorrick | And? | 07:20 |
| kanzure | and that's why i am being aggressive | 07:20 |
| PoorYorrick | I didn't say it was true. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | jeesh, you just fucking asked me | 07:20 |
| PoorYorrick | Whether he was gay then became bisexual is certainly open to verification. But that's what I remember reading. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | "open to verification"? | 07:21 |
| juri_ | these are not binary states. | 07:21 |
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| PoorYorrick | juri: indeed | 07:21 |
| eudoxia | well did the paper actually track his sexual behaviour after the experiement? | 07:21 |
| PoorYorrick | eudoxia: that's what I recall. | 07:21 |
| eudoxia | paperbot pls | 07:21 |
| kanzure | even if it did track his preferences afterwards, that is not evidence that electrode stimulation caused diddly shit about preference changes | 07:22 |
| kanzure | man why are people so awful at thinking | 07:22 |
| eudoxia | here we go probably http://www.violence.de/heath/jnmd/1972paper.pdf | 07:22 |
| * juri_ ^5 kanzure. | 07:22 | |
| PoorYorrick | kanzure, you're misdirecting your frustration. Get pissed with the author of the paper. | 07:22 |
| kanzure | no, i am angry at you | 07:23 |
| kanzure | this is nothing about the paper | 07:23 |
| kanzure | i don't care if they were idiots. i care if you're an idiot. | 07:23 |
| PoorYorrick | I never said I agreed with them. | 07:23 |
| kanzure | hmmm | 07:24 |
| kanzure | "Reminds me of something similar done to a gay guy" sure sounds like you thought they did that | 07:25 |
| PoorYorrick | "One aspect of the total treatment program for this patient was to exlore the possibility of altering his sexual orientation through electrical stimulation of pleasure sites of his brain." | 07:25 |
| eudoxia | reading the paper, apparently the guy "showed increasing interest in female ward personnel" and "expressed wish for heterosexual activity" | 07:26 |
| kanzure | even if he did express an increased interest, that doesn't tell you that conclusion PoorYorrick was remembering | 07:26 |
| PoorYorrick | eudoxia: are you sure? Are you sure you're not an idiot? | 07:26 |
| kanzure | PoorYorrick: eudoxia has not made the same claims you have | 07:26 |
| eudoxia | PoorYorrick: hey, fuck you buddy | 07:27 |
| fenn | gentlemen. | 07:27 |
| fenn | http://nano2009.omer.bar-or.org/images/misc/gentlemen.jpg | 07:28 |
| PoorYorrick | I have no problem. But the claims that I have shown evidence of poor thinking are severely lacking and overwrought, to say the least. | 07:29 |
| PoorYorrick | Well, have a nice day, anyway. | 07:30 |
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| Qfwfq | eudoxia: Was that pun intentional? | 07:31 |
| kanzure | "we did this thing to this person, and then this person did this other thing in the future, therefore it's a direct causal link because fuck reasoning" | 07:33 |
| kanzure | "and also, when i remember this study, i should totally fail to remember how science works, because hey it's published and therefore authoritative" | 07:34 |
| kanzure | am i missing anything? | 07:34 |
| kanzure | oh right, the context one. "also, i should use this poor pile of reasoning in a conversation about wire heading because.." okay i can't figure this one out | 07:35 |
| Qfwfq | "The patient's experimentation with drugs began when he was 21, with ingestion of vanilla extract." Nothing on Erowid, what context am I missing? | 07:38 |
| fenn | the follow-up paper is not available online: University Park Press, 1976. Moan, C. E., & Heath, R. G. Septal stimulation and the initiation of heterosexual behavior in a homosexual male. Journal of Behavior Therapy and Experimental Psychiatry, 1972, 3, 23-30. | 07:39 |
| Qfwfq | Ethics aside, I'm not sure individual case studies are useful besides for directing further research. | 07:40 |
| fenn | Qfwfq: vanilla contains alcohol | 07:40 |
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| kanzure | how can you remember "they caused him to change his preferences" if you don't actually agree they did. argh.. this is even more alarming. | 07:42 |
| kanzure | "Is anyone familiar with the robotics used in conjunction with sanger seq. machines (specifically, Applied bio 3730xl)? I am looking at university set-ups now. The main issue is adding reagents and the purification steps for sequencing samples. They would be practically inefficient without a robot to do it." | 07:44 |
| fenn | he probably read it in some context where someone paraphrased the paper, and remembered the paraphrasing because nobody ever actually links to the paper itself | 07:44 |
| kanzure | right but those claims are so overwhelmingly strong that anyone with an ounce of brain should be raising eyebrows | 07:45 |
| fenn | it's surprising the follow-up paper isn't on every christian gay therapy website, unless it shows that he reverted to pure homosexuality | 07:46 |
| fenn | what's it called, "gay conversion therapy"? | 07:46 |
| fenn | i guess the prevailing narrative is that "if you try hard enough, and love god and your family, you won't be gay" | 07:48 |
| fenn | not "if you're hooked up to this machine that stimulates you electrically whenever it detects a woman" | 07:48 |
| kanzure | hah that would be funny (if something like an anti-gay-technique that did not involve religion worked, and they would want to avoid it because they would prefer "cured by the power of faith" or something) | 07:49 |
| eudoxia | Qfwfq: what pun? | 07:50 |
| kanzure | http://hackertarget.com/28-days-after-drupal-exploit/ | 07:51 |
| kanzure | "Today a spacecraft landed on a comet, is patching really that hard?" | 07:51 |
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| Qfwfq | eudoxia: Not exactly a pun, nor entertaining upon elaboration. Context: modifying sexual preferences. Retort: 'hey, fuck you buddy'. | 08:16 |
| Qfwfq | (Sorry about the latency, the circuit to my bouncer dropped mysteriously.) | 08:17 |
| kanzure | "Mistiquemusic Showcase 148 (13 November 2014) - featuring D-phrag" | 08:19 |
| kanzure | so really, how do these people have an endless stream of content | 08:19 |
| kanzure | enough musicians that there's always a backlog? or quick to create? | 08:20 |
| fenn | music has become pretty formulaic on the whole | 08:20 |
| fenn | also there are a lot of aspiring musicians | 08:21 |
| archels | kanzure: algorithms | 08:21 |
| Qfwfq | I've heard about people building mixtapes based on their recent last.fm history, ordered and capped by frequency. | 08:21 |
| kanzure | it may be formulaic but i'm p. sure it's still not quite generated in a way that anyone in here would call generated | 08:21 |
| fenn | gets pretty close | 08:22 |
| archels | yeah was being sardonic | 08:22 |
| fenn | not many peope are actually trying to write musician "AI" software | 08:22 |
| fenn | but the rules are well known, the software is typical, and there's enough content out there that you'll never be able to cover it all already | 08:23 |
| archels | but I mean, it's not like there's a finite amount of music; that once we've written it all we're stuck to minor variations | 08:23 |
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| kanzure | i don't think much of the software is of the type that is friendly to automate with | 08:24 |
| kanzure | lots of proprietary mixing software that would be annoying to reverse engineer or get dll hooks for automation purposes | 08:24 |
| fenn | it's not, that's the main obstacle to auto-generated music | 08:24 |
| kanzure | geeze | 08:24 |
| fenn | midi software is what most music AI academics use, and it tends to suck | 08:25 |
| Qfwfq | Algorave is a thing; practitioners generate manually, but the interface is there. | 08:25 |
| fenn | but if the AI just writes notes on sheet music and a human plays them, it's indistinguishable from human-generated music | 08:25 |
| fenn | listen for example http://fennetic.net/irc/emily_howell_beethoven_impersonation.mp3 | 08:26 |
| fenn | emily howell is an AI | 08:26 |
| fenn | really just a collection of rules about music with a name | 08:26 |
| fenn | manfred clynes wrote about "sentics" which is a mathematical theory of time-varying functions and how they express emotions | 08:28 |
| Qfwfq | This is good, but AFAICT it's just a minor variation on an existing composition. | 08:28 |
| fenn | he claims to have bridged the gap between midi software and human performance of sheet music, but i haven't actually heard/seen any evidence | 08:28 |
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| fenn | "Having an intermediary - myself - form abstract sets of rules for composition seemed artificial and unnecessarily premeditative. ... I therefore revised the program to create new output from music stored in a database. ... Of course, simply breaking a musical work into smaller parts and randomly combining them into new orders almost certainly produces gibberish. Effective recombination requires | 08:34 |
| fenn | extensive musical analysis and very careful recombination to be effective at even an elemental level" | 08:34 |
| kanzure | oh hm, i guess generating sheet music and paying musicians to play it would be an alternative to hacking around in dlls or reimplementing music synthesis software to be more friendly | 08:36 |
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| fenn | yeah but you also lose all the progress in electronic music since 1968 | 08:37 |
| fenn | i have a bunch of emily howell mp3s but i have no idea what their generation parameters were, and not enough classical musical literacy to know if i'm hearing straight-up copying or not | 08:38 |
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| kanzure | fenn: sbp will know | 08:39 |
| fenn | some of it is definitely weird though, like http://fennetic.net/irc/emily_howell_concert1.mp3 | 08:40 |
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| fenn | but humans can make stupid weird music too | 08:41 |
| fenn | ugh i hate mahler | 08:43 |
| * archels puts on some Naked City | 08:44 | |
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| eudoxia | Qfwfq: ah. well no, it wasn't intentional. | 08:44 |
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| nmz787_i1 | anyone in here use kicad? | 09:03 |
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| heath | nmz787_i1: i haven't used it. it's on the list of things to try when needed | 09:42 |
| archels | kanzure: is there any quick way to scroll all the way down in irssi's buffer at once? | 09:52 |
| archels | like a way that does not involve holding down PgDn for half a minute | 09:52 |
| fenn | nmz787_i1: kicad is pretty good at doing schematics but somewhat lacking when doing multi-layer high density PCBs. it may have improved since i last used it | 09:53 |
| fenn | nmz787_i1: the usual complaint is that there aren't any part libraries, but you can import eagle part libraries with a script | 09:53 |
| kanzure | archels: nope not sure | 09:53 |
| fenn | archels: /scrollback end or /sb end | 09:57 |
| archels | /sb end works \o/ | 09:59 |
| kanzure | instead of solving the pdf access problem maybe first a simpler (and entirely less important) problem should be solved, namely that of just having a list of correct pdf hashes | 10:01 |
| heath | archels: or even /clear | 10:06 |
| heath | does the same thing | 10:06 |
| kanzure | that one sounds dangerous | 10:07 |
| heath | but it isn't | 10:07 |
| fenn | i swear /exec rm /* is perfectly safe | 10:08 |
| heath | hah, but we are talking irssi, archels: /clear is safe | 10:08 |
| Qfwfq | Unless maliciously aliased. | 10:15 |
| fenn | but how do you know you're actually talking to people in the internet and it's not just a convincing simulation | 10:16 |
| justanotheruser | philosohy pls | 10:17 |
| fenn | "In animals that emit semen the nature in the male uses the semen as an instrument possessing active movement, just as the tools are moved in things that come to be by craft; for the movement of the craft is somehow in these tools." --Aristotle | 10:19 |
| fenn | aristotle has the worst quotes | 10:20 |
| fenn | "As many things as come to be by nature or by art come to be by means of a being in actuality from that which is potentially such as that being." | 10:20 |
| kanzure | he was swhack long before swhack | 10:20 |
| dingo_ | ©vLg´ðd/‹Pz.ÄqÜãn/Uáró×J<16zöEý;zɺZÄáfý°>ú¸�£É[6—ÿ7#ã¿ZúâÚ'¿%ßÔBðøç–Õ¬€)z¨é–b¶Ú*¨7î©vèõ~lNð:?×$§ZsÛ�M‚X“Í-ÔAóé;_/ˆ§›¢×ˆMŽSï¼õ;¯V | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | h | 10:22 |
| kanzure | you said it | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | %5a›îyƒü<ÞŸ�} ¸}ZWžßS¸q7·ÙLÉÞZO4;½Öå¢ÄœcÜ+®ÒkônÉèê¿ù©|œq�ÿÇrReþù¾€Þ³%ËOí6ÐÔ© œ[Vx¶Z‚raî~™O·½‚¶„¯°Ðp†ÝÙ¼à‘ˆ®ƒL11j±tÏ•¢x;±gŸõÒZú|‰˜ËS¼¢5á50ŸkH95w0øpåÌÊð:ùö7h~¸ | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | 44œèV~)ƒ)X-rÔT0HßûŠf©´ü²×2‘£½´°þÏŒòîIÃ{BE\¤1F4#k%§úr©ªi¦H‡Ò‹è,;Ð4* Æu›N÷–OûûÅú1d™ÕF-7¬9®{¨:‰Ü^¯»ÔBçÌ6j¥k�¿áÍ£�XêÄ®[S\õÏ·[T¬þqObOµƒŠBÝ®%ßXPènåBÚ«pÕ{Óê§é�Ö:Ô®@SðˆN‰¥ös¶3á0Ãg—6³xüo<öCãt¸�«ÞØ‹ÚÅå#È;�¹Ÿ+¼»Göë¾ôˆƒQAp¤”m˜Ûª�™×:+†øÒEaVŒFÐ!Á „ | 10:22 |
| kanzure | completely agreed. | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | òýʘG’—ß�¯AÚ?)ë_•4[šxÍbŽãÇ®P¦hGˆøYËý’´UžË…ឪðdñ�såõh‘{UŽQU2æn³#õ>{µÇÆ=À}‘?bO,w.ô'ÊýØ÷éíé ÕJÐI'Æ | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | õ | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | ápÖ | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | DÕµ~Þ¸kŸ’ª65ðQß²¡3$î'âee"b’‡þ¥œ%ضAQMû>Z¯¯›LûòßÓuÉçV¿ÑâîQ|Ìétïhfhq[Fd“õ² | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | /ÌVF\:Œ² | 10:22 |
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| dingo_ | »8Ê | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | ‡¾ƒ®d¡çB„™ô|«.dŸÝ^é¤',÷H’ê£h°µÒäÐv¸=>U¨J6£ | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | ´lÝnˆ»Ø¡ | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | ¢Õ,ä7�*# | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | ’œÊXý¯ìÌy¨³…3çS¿ÝTܧ"`í:5òÐ+æµMe«ú´ÃÇÖ¤¶^Ž¾Ò¤ÔgH#,B˶Î*S‹'æO | 10:22 |
| dingo_ | %¸t±FlrœÂ>�÷‘¥)jŽ{ÀsVA§4±Ž^–^Åá˜| | 10:23 |
| kanzure | are we being hacked | 10:23 |
| dingo_ | ËI-;"E.K¸l¤wM|Í'ÏÄ®ed'F;óïX¸Ëº|Né\J¥\ü«¦Ñ%Õ.“ó�m!ÛŸ¼¹ëW³èq-(-úÔo†Ž#ëÖpP`Ï | 10:23 |
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| dingo_ | ǹHÎ�06»XnRË·#øÔ^ªÐÌÌ6!ð1VçW"OœîHSr‚úÝj“?;ÑS#tC=EµˆÁyIê�‰‚„?ÔHeｬOÓ-´Éxó#ÊHÀ‚Ý™ÛË5³Á—Ñ„¸’êÆŦSÀ½ª-�¹ˆc]H3{a¹Ä+Æ; ŽîÈ¼ | 10:23 |
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| dingo_ | ç‰�-�ÿÿ5àÝð1»¯Kð±Rx¬¯’Î&gµH‹á—år¤tŹ‡æê"¿ | 10:23 |
| dingo_ | fBŒëï| | 10:23 |
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| yorick | kanzure: I had this happen in name of allah some time ago | 10:23 |
| justanotheruser | dingo_ pls | 10:23 |
| yorick | kanzure: I'm officially a victim of muslim terrorism now | 10:23 |
| justanotheruser | is yorick a bot? | 10:23 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o fenn] by fenn | 10:23 | |
| kanzure | if he was, would you treat him any differently? | 10:23 |
| yorick | justanotheruser: jounce! | 10:24 |
| fenn | .wik jounce | 10:24 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: yes. I started treating you differently after I found out you were | 10:24 |
| yoleaux | "In physics, jounce or snap is the fourth derivative of the position vector with respect to time, with the first, second, and third derivatives being velocity, acceleration, and jerk, respectively; in other words, the jounce is the rate of change of the jerk with respect to time. Jounce is defined by any of the following equivalent expressions:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce | 10:24 |
| yorick | fenn: he asked me this last time | 10:24 |
| fenn | so "jounce" is slang for "oh snap" now? | 10:24 |
| yorick | fenn: I dunno | 10:25 |
| justanotheruser | yorick: yandere game | 10:25 |
| yorick | justanotheruser: nope. | 10:26 |
| justanotheruser | why? | 10:26 |
| yorick | because I'm trying to do homework | 10:26 |
| justanotheruser | ok | 10:26 |
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| nmz787_i1 | heath: fenn apparently the number of layers (I believe copper layers, not including silk screen, etc) is up to 32 now, which is almost the industry max (I've seen fabs making 48 layers)... libraries seem to be pretty easily available (kicad has a github archive now for some of these)... and there are a few decent symbol and footprint generator programs. | 10:32 |
| fenn | nmz787_i1: i had problems manipulating densely packed components when there were multiple layers, because you could accidentally select a component on an invisible layer | 10:32 |
| nmz787_i1 | heath: fenn: I want to make some kind of input format that would capture a part's datasheet PDF constraints and have these generated automagically though | 10:33 |
| kanzure | octopart might have a tool for that | 10:33 |
| fenn | yeah datasheets are much more easily obtained than part libraries | 10:33 |
| fenn | (correct part libraries) | 10:34 |
| nmz787_i1 | oh, hmm, I didn't think to offload that to octopart | 10:35 |
| nmz787_i1 | hrmm | 10:35 |
| nmz787_i1 | that's a pretty good idea | 10:35 |
| nmz787_i1 | I wonder if they have the mechanical data too | 10:35 |
| kanzure | and if octopart doesn't have a thing for this then they certainly should because it's their job or something | 10:39 |
| kanzure | or their job that they wanted | 10:40 |
| kanzure | or er... the point is, make them do it. | 10:40 |
| fenn | "on any given analog waveform, you can tell the scope to try rules for things like I2C, SPI, UART, USB, etc. and if there’s a match it will pull out the packets and give you a symbolic analysis of the waveform. Very handy for reverse engineering!" i want this for everything | 10:41 |
| fenn | "you can access the internals without having to remove a single screw – in fact, the laptop opens itself for you. With the slide of a latch, the screen automatically pops open thanks to an internal gas spring. As the internals are naked when the screen is up, this is not a computer for casual home use. Another side benefit of this design is there’s no fan noise – when the screen is up, the | 10:47 |
| fenn | motherboard is exposed to open air and a passive heatsink is all you need to keep the CPU cool." taking the concept of "open hardware" a bit too far | 10:47 |
| nmz787_i1 | bunnies thing? | 10:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | i read up on the scope and probes a while ago, pretty sweet | 10:51 |
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| nmz787_i1 | how are these people seemingly so high-performance... good enriching childhood where they learned how to learn stuff efficiently and not screw around? | 10:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | (apparently like I screwed around as a school kid) | 10:52 |
| nmz787_i1 | or do they just have $$$ | 10:52 |
| fenn | slightly above-average dopamine levels | 10:54 |
| fenn | rather dopamine recepter D1 | 10:56 |
| fenn | or maybe D4 | 10:57 |
| kanzure | in the context of building oscilloscopes i don't think it's a matter of learning | 10:57 |
| fenn | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC117557/ | 10:57 |
| yoleaux | From the Cover: Evidence of positive selection acting at the human dopamine receptor D4 gene locus | 10:57 |
| nmz787_i1 | but he whips projects out like crazy and has been for years (I guess he's significantly older than me, and has had a PhD for several years now) | 10:58 |
| kanzure | building stuff requires a good concept of scheduling | 10:58 |
| nmz787_i1 | yeah I suck at scheduling pretty much | 10:58 |
| fenn | the oscilloscope was a tool helping him build a laptop | 10:59 |
| kanzure | whatever | 10:59 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/heuristics | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i1 | fenn: isn't it part of the laptop though? | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i1 | or was that after he built it first, he then added it to the laptop later | 11:00 |
| kanzure | "So there's this well-known thing in quality engineering where getting bugs out earlier is easier, and this other well-known thing in programming where doing projects beginning-to-end gives you foresight about kinds of problems that might happen and makes the earlier designs bug-free and more efficient and such. The right way to think about how projects get completed is as a dependency graph. A useful heuristic here is "How would I prove this ... | 11:00 |
| kanzure | ... is impossible as quickly as possible?". You want to prove the total task will work even if the subtasks fail, and otherwise abandon it. Then you want to prove each subtask is impossible, and replace it appropriately and re-plan integration as quickly as possible (etc etc). It's not as big a deal to structure things perfectly if you have infinite resources and can parallelize everything, which is how the space shuttle and particle ... | 11:00 |
| kanzure | ... colliders are built. The big danger is doing the non-failfast steps first with one person. If one component has a major problem, that means one node is unexpectedly big. In practice, people replace that component with another component rather than delay, or engineer around it, or just accept the delay. But the overall delay is not due to delay along a specific path--it's due to multiple delays, some on every critical path." | 11:00 |
| kanzure | Guest78375: ^possibly relevant to your interests | 11:00 |
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| kanzure | oh actually i suppose the impossibility rating is all sorts of wrong; it should be something like a difficulty probability distribution thingy, where maximum difficulty is impossible, and very high difficulties represent large multi-billion dollar investments, and low difficulties represent "yes i did that in my sleep a few hours ago". | 11:01 |
| fenn | nmz787_i1: i dunno, i just started reading about the novena; it has a bunch of interface hardware so who knows | 11:02 |
| maaku | kanzure: thanks | 11:02 |
| kanzure | although then you need to make sure your ability to estimate difficulty is working correctly | 11:03 |
| kanzure | and what the hell is difficulty anyway | 11:03 |
| fenn | i didnt understand that quote | 11:04 |
| fenn | the space shuttle had a lot of bugs | 11:04 |
| kanzure | bugs are not always critical | 11:04 |
| fenn | is it just "thinking things through helps eliminate bugs quicker"? | 11:05 |
| fenn | rather than debugging | 11:05 |
| fenn | oh this is you quoting yourself :P | 11:06 |
| kanzure | kinda, plus things like "there's no point spinning your wheels in the ground on impossible things, so you should check upfront if they are possible/impossible, and also you should realize even 0.00001% qualifies as possible so you should be careful not to make systems that require multiplying probabilities that small together for everything to work" | 11:06 |
| kanzure | no it was someone else | 11:06 |
| fenn | is this just saying "do the critical path first" | 11:08 |
| kanzure | uh maybe | 11:08 |
| kanzure | another fair interpretation might be "be conservative about where you allow unknowns" but i'm not sure and i'm not checking very thoroughly at the moment | 11:09 |
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| kanzure | "i made that commit only 6 minutes ago?" | 11:32 |
| FourFire | justanotheruser: you seem to accuse a number of people of being bots | 11:38 |
| fenn | lol "USBCondom A protective barrier between your device and "juice-jacking" hackers." | 11:39 |
| heath | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhzF92MTDDs | 11:41 |
| yoleaux | Kangaroos Fighting! Kangaroo Battles! - YouTube | 11:41 |
| heath | music | 11:41 |
| justanotheruser | FourFire: well, I turned out to be right when I said paperbot and gradstudentbot were bots | 11:42 |
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| justanotheruser | ok, leave you dumb bot | 11:43 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: feel like pretending to do review work? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5149 | 11:51 |
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| fenn | justanotherbot | 11:55 |
| archels | so now I need to run pdflatex three times in a row before it spits out my document | 11:57 |
| archels | fantastic. | 11:57 |
| kanzure | .title https://apollo.open-resource.org/lab:ucsspm | 12:22 |
| yoleaux | Apollo-NG - Unified Clear-Sky Solar-Output Prediction Model | 12:22 |
| kanzure | "Wind is another free energy source, used by humans for a long time. Zephyr is going to be a modular Wind-Park Construction Kit based on simple to construct VAWT rotor types, efficient smart-grid conversion and intelligent Point-of-Load distribution technology." | 12:23 |
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| eudoxia | oh lmao apparently OSE is shutting down its facebook group and is going to join some pyramid-scheme social network nobody's ever heard of | 12:53 |
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| kanzure | way to keep it legitimate | 13:02 |
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| kanzure | .title ushkuiniks | 13:39 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 13:39 |
| kanzure | .wik ushkuiniks | 13:39 |
| yoleaux | "The ushkuiniks (Russian: ушкуйники) were medieval Novgorodian pirates who led the Viking-like life of fighting, killing, and robbery. Their name derives from "ushkui", a type of flat-bottom medieval Finnic ship uisk (literally a 'snake'), which could be easily transported over portages between the rivers." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ushkuiniks | 13:39 |
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| kanzure | hmm sosventures hired ryan bethencourt as a "venture partner" | 14:04 |
| kanzure | "An automated platform to design custom phages to combat bacterial infection" http://smartphage.com/ | 14:05 |
| kanzure | "[jacob shiach] ... role as founding director of the venture backed Indie Bio accelerator, where he accelerated 6 idea stage synthetic biology companies who went on to raise $1M+/each" | 14:06 |
| kanzure | they did? | 14:07 |
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| kanzure | i don't recall that happening. | 14:07 |
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| kanzure | "Start-up NeuraLink Co. out of the lab space we call "MI7" (Mission & 7th), which is shared with 3Scan (Todd Huffman's company). My start-up is about building tiny neural probes that are wireless and powered by infrared light. They will be so small that they do not break barriers (unlike regular electrodes) and may even fit within our circulatory system and in interstitial spaces between cells within the cerebrospinal fluid. This is in the ... | 14:10 |
| kanzure | ... early stages and takes up the other 50% of my time." (randal koene) | 14:10 |
| kanzure | (dead) http://www.neuralinkco.com/ | 14:11 |
| kanzure | "Money that is currently pegged to be put directly into "mind uploading" and uses a term like that or very close to it is probably very little. I think we could say it is the amount that Foundation 2045 is spending on it, plus a little bit by Martine Rothblatt and some by Peter Thiel who is supporting David Dalrymple's "Nemaload" project to the tune of $200K. All together, I would be surprised if it was more than $1million annually. | 14:12 |
| kanzure | "Taking a broader look and including the funding that goes into laboratory work aimed at building the tools that are directly applicable to whole brain emulation (e.g. the molecular ticker tape being developed by MIT, Harvard and Northwestern, Anthony Zador's biological tagging method for the connectome, Janelia Farm's investment in Ken Hayworth's FIBSEM developments, 3Scan's funding for their work on the KESM, etc.) then I think it might be ... | 14:12 |
| kanzure | ... a sum of around $15-20million annually." | 14:13 |
| kanzure | oh these look fun: | 14:13 |
| kanzure | Koene, R.A. (2012). Fundamentals of Whole Brain Emulation: State, Transition and Update Representations. Special Issue of the International Journal on Machine Consciousness. Vol.4(1), doi: 10.1142/S1793843012500023. | 14:13 |
| kanzure | Koene, R.A. (2012). Experimental Research in Whole Brain Emulation: The Need for Innovative In-Vivo Measurement Techniques. Special Issue of the International Journal on Machine Consciousness. Vol.4(1), doi: 10.1142/S1793843012500047. | 14:13 |
| kanzure | Koene, R.A. (2013). Toward Tractable AGI: Challenges for System Identification in Neural Circuitry. To be published in Lecture Notes in Computer Science. Vol. 7716, Springer. | 14:13 |
| kanzure | http://rak.minduploading.org/publications/publications/koene.IJMC.fundamentals-of-WBE-state-transition-and-update-representations.proofs-20120410.pdf | 14:14 |
| kanzure | http://rak.minduploading.org/publications/publications/koene.IJMC.experimental-research-in-WBE-the-need-for-innovative-in-vivo-measurement-techniques.proofs-20120410.pdf | 14:14 |
| kanzure | http://randalkoene.com/publications/publications/koene.AGI-12.tractable-AGI-challenges-for-SI-in-neural-circuitry.proofs.pdf | 14:14 |
| kanzure | http://randalkoene.com/publications/publications/koene.Intelligence-Unbound.Mind-Uploading.pdf | 14:14 |
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| archels | funny, that's titled "Feasible Mind Uploading" in the print version | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | kanzure: what's the ref for this merge request i am supposed to be reviewing | 14:22 |
| archels | they appear to be different versions | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | ah, git fetch git://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin.git verify-pgp | 14:24 |
| jrayhawk | github is amazingly bad at indicating where that ref is | 14:25 |
| jrayhawk | i was half-expecting a gerritt-like shitshow of one-ref-per-merge-request inside of the repository | 14:26 |
| jrayhawk | i like github's approach better, despite the lack of indication | 14:27 |
| jrayhawk | letting jerks pollute their own namespaces | 14:28 |
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| kanzure | "joey figures out github" | 14:39 |
| nmz787_i1 | jrayhawk: do you maintain this broken site? https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/PyGObject | 14:39 |
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| jrayhawk | nmz787_i1: nope, that appears to be run by redhat | 14:52 |
| jrayhawk | http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/10/31/beheco.aru186.full is neat | 14:53 |
| jrayhawk | .title | 14:53 |
| yoleaux | Cortisol in mother’s milk across lactation reflects maternal life history and predicts infant temperament | 14:53 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC370198/ | 14:54 |
| yoleaux | Primary cortisol resistance in man. A glucocorticoid receptor-mediated disease. | 14:54 |
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| jrayhawk | yeah, the corticosteroid resistance literature is also neat | 14:59 |
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| kanzure | any negative consequences? | 15:00 |
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| jrayhawk | what do you mean "any negative consequences" | 15:01 |
| kanzure | to cortisol resistance | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | losing your primary antiinflammatory seems pretty significant | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | the catabolic effects don't really go away; if they did, people would die pretty quick for lack of blood sugar regulation | 15:01 |
| kanzure | hrm i should have restricted my question to the cerebrum or something. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | or more specific than that | 15:03 |
| jrayhawk | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=corticosteroid+resistance the results aren't pretty | 15:04 |
| nmz787_i1 | jrayhawk: so for someone with addison's disease, would be theorized to have a more docile child? | 15:05 |
| nmz787_i1 | the opposite of "Glucocorticoids in mother’s milk, independent of available milk energy, predicted a more Nervous, less Confident temperament in both sons and daughters." | 15:06 |
| nmz787_i1 | I would believe | 15:06 |
| jrayhawk | Inflammation ruins too much other stuff. | 15:07 |
| jrayhawk | Why would you belive the opposite | 15:07 |
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| nmz787_i1 | hmm> | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | ? | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | addison's is lack of cortisol | 15:07 |
| jrayhawk | Addison's is usually autoimmune. | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | yes | 15:08 |
| jrayhawk | Much like Hashimotos. | 15:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | so though there is lack of cortisol, it's the result of an inflammatory process (self-cells killing cortisol producing cells)... and you're saying the tradeoff would be such that you're still having a messed up kid? | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | So, while you'd be looking at theoretically calming effects from an inability to produce most of a stress response, there's associated epithelial failure crashing serotonin, there's quinolinic acid hammering NMDA receptors, there's regular blood sugar crises | 15:09 |
| nmz787_i1 | maybe less nervous and more confident, but messed up because of the inflammatory environment it was raised in? | 15:10 |
| nmz787_i1 | hm | 15:10 |
| jrayhawk | This is "just consider the blood marker that defines the disease" approach is why our medical system is a farce; etiology is what we care about and need to treat. | 15:11 |
| jrayhawk | Addisons is not just some mystifying thing, it comes packaged with inflammation. | 15:11 |
| jrayhawk | or, at least, usually does | 15:13 |
| jrayhawk | re: limits to cerebral effects: I don't know the chemical pathways well enough to guess, but judging from the rest of the body, I doubt it's good. | 15:19 |
| jrayhawk | Trying to supraphysiologically undermine catabolic signaling is not as prudent as trying to physiologically maximize anabolic signaling. | 15:20 |
| jrayhawk | Eat plenty of DHA, micronutrients, and do resistance training to introduce as much BDNF and IGF-1 as possible. | 15:20 |
| jrayhawk | like, RCTs actually support that. You don't even need to speculate. | 15:22 |
| jrayhawk | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=bdnf+igf-1+resistance+training | 15:24 |
| kanzure | yes i saw some otherwise basic influence of cortisol on neuron function, like modulation of propagation rates along axons | 15:25 |
| kanzure | although there may be specific receptor-triggered pathways in neurons that would be worth looking at | 15:26 |
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| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: https://fiber.google.com/helloaustin/tshirt/ | 15:45 |
| kanzure | yes i got spammed by them about that, i'm not interested in wearing their corporate propaganda | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: does your mom only make cabinets, or has she also made chairs? | 16:03 |
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| kanzure | at the moment she is focusing on cabinets | 16:32 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674%2814%2901361-0 | 18:22 |
| kanzure | .title | 18:22 |
| kanzure | .TITLE | 18:22 |
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| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Merkle_Hall_Sandberg_Freitas_spike_at_Convergence08.jpg | 18:36 |
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| kanzure | hrm the nobel prize on dna synthesis was 1968? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Nucleic%20acid%20synthesis%20in%20the%20study%20of%20the%20genetic%20code%20-%20Khorana%20-%201968%20-%20Nobel%20Lecture.pdf | 18:47 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Pioneer%20Organisms%20Nominated%20for%20Terraforming.htm | 18:49 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Switching%20from%20automatic%20to%20controlled%20action%20by%20monkey%20medial%20frontal%20cortex.pdf | 18:54 |
| kanzure | fenn: you should redo this but with units and dimensions http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Taxonomy%20of%20Human%20Abilities%20-%20Fleishman.pdf | 18:56 |
| kanzure | also, these guys suggest attaching sensors to parts that are being assembled, and then complaining to assemblers when they are doing it wrong http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Proactive%20instructions%20for%20furniture%20assembly.pdf | 18:56 |
| justanotheruser | your moms furniture pdfs? | 18:58 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//Predicting%20change%20propagation%20in%20complex%20design.pdf | 18:58 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2//On%20automatic%20generation%20of%20assembly%20plans.pdf | 19:01 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/assembly-planning/GAPP%20-%20generative%20assembly%20process%20planner.pdf | 19:12 |
| kanzure | superkuh: more china spam http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=UkYjCsgB | 19:22 |
| ParahSailin_ | fucker4 | 19:22 |
| kanzure | gotta change your passwords now | 19:23 |
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| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/assembly-planning/Automatic%20decomposition%20of%20planned%20assembly%20sequences%20into%20skill%20primitives.pdf | 19:26 |
| catern | is that spam actually scammers? | 19:27 |
| kanzure | hmm so i am somewhat convinced that automatic motion planning works, but motion isn't the only manufacturing task you need, maaku | 19:27 |
| catern | or what? | 19:27 |
| catern | seems very narrowly focused if so | 19:27 |
| kanzure | i have no idea, i haven't investigated very thoroughly | 19:27 |
| kanzure | but i do have like 50 of these saved up now | 19:27 |
| kanzure | someone should look into this | 19:27 |
| catern | so many things that need doing | 19:27 |
| kanzure | i dunno if they are just randomly typing in email addresses or if they are paying for some spam services | 19:28 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001700200002 | 19:33 |
| kanzure | "A dynamic programming based process planning selection strategy considering utilisation of machines" | 19:34 |
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| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/assembly-planning/Evolving%20assembly%20plans%20for%20fully%20automated%20design%20and%20assembly.pdf | 19:50 |
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| kanzure | okay so that looks okay for motion planning. but motion planning doesn't give your planner access to molecular gastronomy knowledge even though it's stirring your food. | 19:53 |
| kanzure | "Evolutionary acquisition of behavior to build structural objects by virtual creatures" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10015-009-0685-y | 19:55 |
| kanzure | "One of our purposes is to develop virtual creatures which can acquire behaviors such as building structural objects in a 3D physical simulation. In this article, we show the influences of behavior on structural objects which are built by virtual creatures. Many creatures can change their environment for the better by building structural objects, for example, spiders’ nests. In the field of artificial life, there are many studies of virtual ... | 19:55 |
| kanzure | ... creatures which change their bodies and behavior to suit their environments. In contrast, there are few studies about virtual creatures which build structural objects. As for natural creatures, virtual creatures need a physical interaction between their body and their environment. Therefore, our purpose is to develop a framework for the autonomous acquisition of behaviors which build structural objects in a 3D physical simulation. In ... | 19:55 |
| kanzure | ... order to do this, we first studied the evolutionary acquisition of behavior for building structural objects, e.g., a nest for predation, by the simple behavior of throwing blocks. As a result, we show the possibility that virtual creatures can acquire building behavior evolutionarily." | 19:55 |
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| kanzure | hmm | 20:50 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/assembly-planning/Knowledge%20representation%20for%20automated%20process%20planning.pdf | 20:50 |
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| kanzure | bleep | 21:16 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674%2814%2901361-0 | 21:40 |
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| maaku | kanzure: there's a video talk I should find for you which shows opencog agents building stairs, bridges and other structures in a minecraft like world to acomplish goals | 22:09 |
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