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| NilsAFK | re | 01:23 |
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| ebowden | http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/141118/srep07089/pdf/srep07089.pdf | 01:41 |
| ebowden | I wonder if Valproic acid would help make the changes permanent. | 01:42 |
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| eudoxia | 1http://chronopause.com/chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/30/going-going-gone/index.html#comment-2379 | 04:48 |
| eudoxia | >Here’s my plan to rejuvenate my ageing brain–and body: Secure three or four aborted male caucasian first trimester fetuses. | 04:48 |
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| @kanzure | eudoxia: i'm sure that can be arranged | 06:43 |
| @kanzure | fenn: you sometimes do learn things about that secret, though | 06:44 |
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| archels | and they will magically migrate into the brain and magically find the right position and magically sprout the right connections | 07:01 |
| @kanzure | the fetuses will? | 07:02 |
| @kanzure | oh, stem cells probably? | 07:02 |
| archels | the transplanted cells | 07:02 |
| superkuh | Inject them into my eyes, please. | 07:03 |
| archels | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jnc.12969/pdf | 07:05 |
| archels | .title | 07:05 |
| yoleaux | Aging and Brain Rejuvenation as Systemic Events - Bouchard - Journal of Neurochemistry - Wiley Online Library | 07:05 |
| archels | paperbot: http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fcell.2014.00016/pdf | 07:07 |
| archels | .title | 07:07 |
| yoleaux | archels: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. | 07:07 |
| archels | "Aging-related diseases are related to a deficiency of the immune system, which results from an aged thymus and bone marrow cells. Intra bone marrow-bone marrow transplantation (IBM-BMT) is a useful method to treat intractable diseases." | 07:08 |
| archels | "[the thymus] atrophies at puberty. Unlike the liver, kidney and heart, for instance, the thymus is at its largest in children. The thymus reaches maximum weight (20 to 37 grams) by the time of puberty. The thymus of older people is scarcely distinguishable from surrounding fatty tissue. As one ages the thymus slowly shrinks, eventually degenerating into tiny islands of fatty tissue. By the age of 75 years, the thymus weighs only 6 grams." | 07:10 |
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| @kanzure | hmm i guess it's unlikely for an old person to get bone marrow transplants at the moment | 07:11 |
| @kanzure | because usually old people are more easily immune compromised or something | 07:11 |
| @kanzure | or, bone marrow transplants are only considered when there's already an immune-compromising problem i suppose | 07:12 |
| @kanzure | (just thinking through what sort of evidence we can pull up from the interwebs) | 07:12 |
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| archels | I'm not sure how compatible stem cells from a random fetus would be | 07:14 |
| archels | should we invest some money into extracting and cryogenically storing our own stem cells while we're young? | 07:15 |
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| kanzure | archels: you could probably answer that with some very simple math and i'm sure the answer would be "yes" | 07:19 |
| kanzure | it's too bad that storing eggs requires some up-front hormone regiments | 07:20 |
| kanzure | because that is apparently preventing lots of people from storing tissue when they're young | 07:20 |
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| archels | not much of a problem for us male nerds | 07:38 |
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| delinquentme | marketing via religion bashing and insecurities are pretty effective | 10:02 |
| fenn | wow "Currently about 1/3rd of every healthcare dollar in the West is spent on people in the last year of their lives." | 10:30 |
| fenn | why can't we experiment on old people again? they're just going to die anyway | 10:32 |
| fenn | my great grandma was just waiting to die for a whole decade, she thought she had nothing left to do | 10:36 |
| fenn | excuse me ma'am, can I borrow your body, for science | 10:36 |
| fenn | ebowden can you get me a couple dozen old nuns | 10:40 |
| fenn | the vatican is pretty pro-science; just need to frame the question correctly | 10:41 |
| kanzure | "donating your body to science after you die is nice and all, but before you die would be cool too, you know" | 10:48 |
| nmz787_i | srsly | 10:49 |
| nmz787_i | I wonder if that's easier in Oregon with their euthanasia laws | 10:49 |
| fenn | the idea is that they don't die | 10:50 |
| nmz787_i | well I mean that there is already legal precedent for allowing people to make choices that could result in death, like if the experimental treatment fails | 10:54 |
| fenn | what does that have to do with euthanasia | 10:57 |
| fenn | experimental treatment has been around for a long time, and always carries some risk. but pure research on humans has not been feasible because the benefit is perceived as zero since "there is no disease" | 10:58 |
| kanzure | it is unethical to punch slower than would cause euthanization | 10:59 |
| fenn | ouch | 10:59 |
| fenn | punch slowly, my friends | 11:00 |
| kanzure | "pull your punches" | 11:01 |
| kanzure | https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/140987273/download?client_id=b45b1aa10f1ac2941910a7f0d10f8e28 | 11:03 |
| fenn | if you lose "10,000 brain cells a day" that's only 0.3% over the course of 100 years | 11:12 |
| fenn | these numbers were a lot different than i expected: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of_neurons#Cerebral_cortex | 11:18 |
| archels | fenn: that 10k cells thing is an urban myth, anyway | 11:23 |
| fenn | yes i know | 11:23 |
| fenn | obviously the number is much higher | 11:23 |
| fenn | also we now know that brain cells can regenerate | 11:25 |
| kanzure | "They can't seize a shipment of schematics." well..... | 11:25 |
| fenn | the microfilm, mister bond | 11:25 |
| archels | much higher? | 11:25 |
| fenn | "If the human brain has a weight of 1.4 kg (1400 grams) and there were about 100 billion neurons, then it can be calculated that there are approximately 70 million neurons per gram. | 11:26 |
| fenn | Now, when people lose a gram of brain mass per year, meaning that the brain loses 70 million neurons per year, or about 190 thousand damaged, slowing down, or dying brain cells per day." | 11:26 |
| archels | last time I looked into it there wasn't even a downward trend | 11:26 |
| fenn | huh? | 11:26 |
| archels | losing a gram of neuropil does not necessarily imply that any neurons or glia are lost at all | 11:26 |
| fenn | RESULTS: Both %GM and %WM in the intracranial space were significantly less in older subjects (≥50 years) than in younger subjects (<50 years) | 11:27 |
| fenn | CONCLUSION: GM volume loss appears to be a constant, linear function of age throughout adult life, whereas WM volume loss seems to be delayed until middle adult life. | 11:28 |
| fenn | archels: so you're saying the cells themselves shrink? | 11:29 |
| archels | something like that, or changes in myelination/consolidation of connectivity | 11:31 |
| archels | paperbot: http://www.turingbirds.com/temp/410210603_ftp.pdf | 11:31 |
| kanzure | wah paperbot is still not doing things | 11:31 |
| fenn | "neocortical cell counts in normal human adult aging" | 11:33 |
| nmz787_i | why don't we have paperbot and paperbot2? | 11:34 |
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| fenn | in that paper they are saying neurons die and regenerate, and glia increase with age | 11:37 |
| fenn | but total number of neurons remains constant | 11:37 |
| fenn | but young people have larger neurons | 11:41 |
| fenn | i wish gf and gc were the standard measures of intelligence, this IQ stuff is confusing | 11:49 |
| fenn | who cares how old you are | 11:50 |
| fenn | if you eat a lot of turmeric (curcumin) does this make your brain turn yellow? | 11:56 |
| fenn | "the Indian brains were often stained faint yellow from years of curry eating (remember that curcumin crosses the blood-brain barrier, so this should be expected) but by his inspection these brains had youthful cell densities in the cortex. | 12:02 |
| fenn | The British brains, by contrast, having suffered through many decades of damaging high-fat diets, and without the protection of curcumin, were normal colored but appeared to have about half the cell densities of the Indian brains." | 12:02 |
| fenn | "Another interesting fact about curcumin is that it is also the only known therapy other than caloric restriction that reliably will reliably extend lifespan (about 10-12%) in laboratory mice." hrm | 12:03 |
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| fenn | "Significant positive correlations have been found between grey matter volume in elderly persons and measures of semantic and short-term memory. No significant correlations with white matter volume were found." | 12:23 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000169186790011X | 12:24 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Age%20differences%20in%20fluid%20and%20crystallized%20intelligence%0A%20.pdf | 12:24 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/irc/age_differences_in_fluid_and_crystallized_intelligence.pdf | 12:28 |
| kanzure | i had a good argument against paperbot2 and paperbot1 | 12:28 |
| kanzure | 11:12 < kanzure> right now neither of them work | 12:28 |
| kanzure | 11:12 < kanzure> so having two things that don't work wont be helpful | 12:28 |
| kanzure | thank you, kanzure, that is an excellent argument | 12:28 |
| kanzure | 11:13 < kanzure> do whatever you want, within the limits of 1) do the right thing, 2) don't be lazy, 3) pretend i'll kickban you if you make bad implementation choices | 12:29 |
| kanzure | 11:17 < fenn> oh my god i am so underwhelmed by this | 12:29 |
| fenn | underwhelmed by what | 12:29 |
| kanzure | well, crossref.org, but i took some editorial license there. | 12:30 |
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| kanzure | i wonder if anyone has done mouse brain window monitoring for cellular aging reasons | 12:32 |
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| faceface_ | worm brain lego? | 14:19 |
| faceface_ | http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/7985 | 14:19 |
| faceface_ | prolly old news | 14:19 |
| kanzure | hello faceface_ | 14:21 |
| faceface_ | hihi | 14:21 |
| faceface_ | so... publication models like wikipedia could only exist on the internet | 14:25 |
| faceface_ | they are 'web-native' | 14:25 |
| faceface_ | what types of financial 'product' can only exist on blockchain type technologies? | 14:25 |
| faceface_ | what are the native 'bottom up' type financial technologies going to be? | 14:26 |
| kanzure | any financial scheme can be emulated without a blockchain | 14:26 |
| faceface_ | sure | 14:26 |
| fenn | trustless smart contracts | 14:27 |
| faceface_ | but blockchain facilitates, like wp does | 14:27 |
| faceface_ | fenn: but how will that scale to thousands of people? | 14:27 |
| kanzure | i don't think "trustless smart contracts" need a blockchain or anti-replay attack prevention | 14:27 |
| faceface_ | ok, I was going to say 'bitcoin' but tried to step back by saying 'block chain' | 14:27 |
| faceface_ | actually I don't care | 14:27 |
| fenn | kanzure: something has to validate the contract | 14:28 |
| faceface_ | what I mean is, if we can each act somewhat like a bank, what can emerge? | 14:28 |
| kanzure | anyone should be capable of verifying a "trustless smart contract" | 14:28 |
| fenn | but you have to know what the inputs are | 14:28 |
| kanzure | so you get told the inputs | 14:29 |
| fenn | but how can you believe that what you're being told is true | 14:29 |
| kanzure | cryptography | 14:29 |
| fenn | no, that just keeps other people from listening in | 14:29 |
| kanzure | keeps people from forging your signature | 14:30 |
| kanzure | *makes it extremely difficult to forge your signature | 14:30 |
| fenn | now you've only verified that "bob sent this message" but you don't know if what bob is telling you is true or not | 14:30 |
| faceface_ | regardless... what could we do with 1G multi-sig? | 14:30 |
| faceface_ | 500k of 1G? | 14:30 |
| kanzure | unfortunately you will have trouble with people registering multiple times | 14:31 |
| faceface_ | ah | 14:31 |
| fenn | seems like nothing would ever get done if 1 billion signatures are required | 14:31 |
| faceface_ | is that a problem if registration costs 1k? | 14:31 |
| kanzure | now only the rich can register lots of times | 14:32 |
| faceface_ | fenn: unless it was to pay out 100 trillion | 14:32 |
| fenn | huh | 14:32 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: only the rich can use complex financial 'products' | 14:32 |
| kanzure | huh? | 14:32 |
| * faceface_ has no clue where this is going either | 14:32 | |
| faceface_ | I'm just curious about the idea of highly distributed finance | 14:33 |
| fenn | so we have a big lottery gambling on whether everyone on the entire planet can cooperate at the same time? | 14:33 |
| faceface_ | fenn: isn't that pretty much the system we have? | 14:33 |
| fenn | no | 14:33 |
| faceface_ | how did you chose your parents? | 14:33 |
| fenn | if i refuse to cooperate, guys with guns come and take me away | 14:33 |
| fenn | you aren't making any sense | 14:34 |
| faceface_ | Somehow 'crowd funding' seems to be cludging an old model into a new system | 14:34 |
| faceface_ | fenn: I never made any such promise... (sorry) | 14:34 |
| faceface_ | sorry if this is a totally absurd line of thinking | 14:35 |
| kanzure | faceface_: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/fanaticism/if-i-was-chairman-of-the-fed.yaml | 14:35 |
| faceface_ | but basically it comes down to something like 'traditional books are to wikipedia as traditional financial instruments are to ...' | 14:35 |
| kanzure | wikipedia did not invent digital content | 14:36 |
| kanzure | i know you're looking for big ideas but i don't think they happen this way | 14:38 |
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| faceface_ | kanzure: of course wp is just one example that happens to be big in it's own way | 14:39 |
| faceface_ | but it's sucess is dependent on it's medium | 14:39 |
| faceface_ | traditional publishing works in that medium too, it's just not taking full advantage of what can be done | 14:40 |
| fenn | traditional publishing does not allow everyone and their grandma to edit the article | 14:40 |
| faceface_ | indeed | 14:40 |
| kanzure | wikipedia doesn't either | 14:41 |
| faceface_ | I heard recently blogs being described as another 'internet native' form of publishing | 14:41 |
| fenn | traditional publishing only allows ~2 people to edit the article | 14:41 |
| faceface_ | something that just doesn't work outside of the web | 14:41 |
| kanzure | fenn, that sounds like a version control issue, not a publishing issue | 14:42 |
| faceface_ | wp and wikis generally are something new to the internet, and they seem to work ther | 14:42 |
| fenn | there were zines before blogs, but they took more effort to prepare and distribute | 14:42 |
| fenn | kanzure: no it's intentional, to preserve the author's voice and the editor's discretion, or something | 14:43 |
| kanzure | haha | 14:43 |
| faceface_ | right, the web has allowed blogs, wikis and distributed development via version contorl to flourish | 14:43 |
| fenn | kanzure: that's the point of CC-BY-ND | 14:43 |
| kanzure | git does not require the web to work | 14:43 |
| fenn | sorta | 14:44 |
| faceface_ | so, given these technologies can broady be described as 'web native', something uniquely successfull on the web, what's next for finance given bitcoin like technologies? | 14:44 |
| fenn | exporting patches is a laborious process | 14:44 |
| faceface_ | and beside the point ;-) | 14:44 |
| jrayhawk | linux development doesn't use the web at all | 14:45 |
| kanzure | faceface_: http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/speculative-attack/ | 14:45 |
| jrayhawk | it's all git, git+ssh, and smtp | 14:45 |
| jrayhawk | well, no, i guess that's not true. some people actually try to use bugzilla. | 14:46 |
| fenn | he means "networking technologies" | 14:46 |
| kanzure | well he's confused | 14:46 |
| fenn | not http or whatever you're implying | 14:46 |
| kanzure | people make a big deal out of wikipedia being digital native or something, but really it's just some different policies or something | 14:46 |
| kanzure | faceface_: there's a lot of room for bitcoin to grow into the existing financial ecosystem | 14:47 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: right | 14:48 |
| faceface_ | yeah, when I say web I'm confused. | 14:49 |
| kanzure | things like teleporting money around the world instantly | 14:49 |
| faceface_ | sure | 14:49 |
| faceface_ | but that doesn't interest me as much | 14:49 |
| kanzure | auditing is going to be turned around eventually | 14:49 |
| fenn | something about bankless people in africa | 14:49 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: you can reduce wp to policy, but the fact is that that policy is a good fit with the www | 14:49 |
| kanzure | from a "he-said-she-said" ordeal to a ledger-based proof system of some kind | 14:50 |
| fenn | or areas where the government is non-existent | 14:50 |
| kanzure | i think wikipedia could work just fine without www | 14:50 |
| fenn | how would you contribute | 14:50 |
| kanzure | local editing | 14:50 |
| faceface_ | I'm curious about new types of economic instrument supported by 'bitcoin-like' things | 14:50 |
| fenn | how do other people see your contributions | 14:50 |
| jrayhawk | various text files used to be mutated in free-form as they were passed around BBSes | 14:51 |
| kanzure | you send them to those people | 14:51 |
| fenn | who do you send them to? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | how is this a hard problem? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | are you guys crazy | 14:51 |
| fenn | it never happened, there must be a reason | 14:51 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: what's your point? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: nobody wanted to, version control sucked, etc. | 14:51 |
| faceface_ | wp is one of the top 10 sites in the world, and it's had tremendous growth | 14:51 |
| fenn | but the promise of vast knowledge must have been apparent to some | 14:52 |
| kanzure | faceface_: so you don't like the audit stuff? hmm | 14:52 |
| kanzure | faceface_: maybe you can be more specific about what you're trying to get out of me | 14:52 |
| faceface_ | hehe | 14:52 |
| faceface_ | :-) | 14:52 |
| kanzure | zero knowledge proofs? | 14:52 |
| faceface_ | just some interesting bedtime chatter | 14:52 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/ | 14:53 |
| kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/ | 14:53 |
| faceface_ | sorry for being a pain in the assets | 14:53 |
| fenn | also BBS is a networking technology | 14:53 |
| kanzure | how about cryptowall and other ransomware? | 14:53 |
| faceface_ | ty | 14:53 |
| faceface_ | night | 14:54 |
| kanzure | are you trying to make me say "dapps"? | 14:54 |
| faceface_ | lol | 14:54 |
| kanzure | seeya | 14:54 |
| fenn | .g dapps | 14:54 |
| yoleaux | http://college.cengage.com/masterstudent/toft/master_student_guide/1e/students/success_strategies/article_set_goal_pt_03.html | 14:54 |
| kanzure | .g bitcoin dapps jonston OR ltb | 14:54 |
| yoleaux | http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-139-the-validity-of-appcoins | 14:54 |
| faceface_ | .g etherium skynet | 14:54 |
| yoleaux | http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/events/luncheon/2014/04/difilippi | 14:54 |
| jrayhawk | fenn: speaking is a networking technology | 14:55 |
| faceface_ | meh | 14:56 |
| kanzure | don't be too discouraged | 14:56 |
| fenn | yes and if you got a million people in a room, they'd maybe create something like wikipedia | 14:56 |
| jrayhawk | someone should to an equivalent to "TCP/IP over carrier pidgin" for "FidoNET over word-oF-mouth" | 14:56 |
| jrayhawk | s/to an/do an/ | 14:57 |
| jrayhawk | s/pidgin/pidgeon/ | 14:57 |
| fenn | i'm not watching some bitcoin podcast | 14:57 |
| kanzure | you can read the comments at the bottom | 14:57 |
| kanzure | it doesn't matter | 14:57 |
| kanzure | it's just "everything needs its own blockchain because blockchainz yo" | 14:58 |
| kanzure | http://startupboy.com/2014/03/09/the-bitcoin-model-for-crowdfunding/ | 14:58 |
| kanzure | the problem is that these ideas are terrible and don't understand why the blockchain works at all | 14:58 |
| fenn | don't these people know about network effects | 14:58 |
| kanzure | no | 14:59 |
| fenn | where's my cluestick | 14:59 |
| kanzure | you left it in 2027 | 14:59 |
| * fenn sleeps for 13 years | 14:59 | |
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| nmz787_i | .title http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2007/12/dna-denaturation-and-renaturation-and.html | 15:57 |
| yoleaux | Sandwalk: DNA Denaturation and Renaturation and the Role of Hydrogen Bonds and Stacking Interactions | 15:57 |
| nmz787_i | "Secondly, note that stacking interactions involving G/C base pairs are stronger (more negative) than those involving A/T base pairs. This is why the melting temperature of DNA depends on the base composition. It's not because G/C base pairs have one more hydrogen bond than A/T base pairs, it's because G/C base pairs form stronger stacking interactions." | 15:57 |
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| kanzure | rails-based bitcoin exchange https://github.com/peatio/peatio | 16:38 |
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| kanzure | (don't do what they do) | 16:46 |
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| kanzure | 16:59 <@Gwern-away> kanzure: yes, the question here is for a consumer: if I run out right this second, how much money do I need to throw at someone to get my genome sequenced? as far as I know, illumina requires a physician to sign off | 17:00 |
| kanzure | what...... | 17:00 |
| fenn | in 2009 "the cost of a human genome is about $1k, and the price is $10k and falling" | 17:01 |
| fenn | so my guess is somewhere around $2500 | 17:01 |
| kanzure | yep https://www.scienceexchange.com/services/illumina-ngs | 17:02 |
| kanzure | but it's the physician sign off that worries me | 17:02 |
| kanzure | why would illumina know whether or not you are being sequenced at all? | 17:02 |
| fenn | huh | 17:03 |
| kanzure | gwern claims "illumina requires a physician to sign off" | 17:03 |
| fenn | ask gwern then | 17:03 |
| nmz787 | my med school friend says insurance will pay for it if your doc says you need it | 17:10 |
| nmz787 | since they don't know how to determine if it is or insn't required | 17:11 |
| fenn | who "needs" a genome sequence | 17:12 |
| fenn | the guy with the mutation that will kill him in 10 years but he doesn't know about? | 17:13 |
| Burninate | "I want to find out if my congenital disability would be passed on to children I have with my girlfriend" perhaps? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | your genome wont tell you whether or not you will forget to do genetic engineering | 17:14 |
| Burninate | I got a report to that effect unsolicited from Kaiser Permanente, after they recieved the records of very comprehensive blood tests done a few years ago to diagnose a coagulation disorder | 17:14 |
| Burninate | http://pastebin.com/kx4JdEZP | 17:17 |
| fenn | its like trial by ordeal. "yep, this person definitely should have had their genome sequenced, because they died" | 17:20 |
| nmz787 | it's more like the opposite.. they have no precedent to deny it | 17:26 |
| fenn | 'San Francisco-based GeneHub has plans to become the first company selling whole genome sequences to all comers' | 17:26 |
| fenn | srsly, why did it take this long | 17:27 |
| fenn | $3490/genome | 17:27 |
| fenn | oh, but it failed. | 17:27 |
| * fenn reads slow | 17:27 | |
| bbrittain | http://www.wired.com/2014/11/opentrons-bio-robots/?utm_content=bufferde4f8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer | 17:34 |
| bbrittain | It's like they want to disappoint people and cause the equivelant of the AI winter :/ | 17:35 |
| bbrittain | fuckers | 17:35 |
| bbrittain | don't bother clicking that. all you need to know is the title is "This Robot Could Make Creating New Life Forms As Easy As Coding An App" | 17:36 |
| kanzure | huh, the url is very deceptive | 17:36 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:36 |
| yoleaux | This Robot Could Make Creating New Life Forms As Easy As Coding An App | WIRED | 17:36 |
| kanzure | yep.. deception confirmed. | 17:36 |
| kanzure | i wonder if this is opentrons' fault | 17:36 |
| kanzure | like, did they feed this bullshit to them, or is this wired's own bullshit? | 17:36 |
| bbrittain | I blame the indie.bio thing/peoplez | 17:37 |
| bbrittain | they are tthe worst | 17:37 |
| kanzure | indie.bio was cathal garvey | 17:37 |
| kanzure | you're probably right, but can you provide your evidence anyway? | 17:38 |
| bbrittain | https://twitter.com/indbio/status/535528860758982656 | 17:38 |
| bbrittain | not evidence, but they support it | 17:38 |
| fenn | opentrons looks okay for what it is; it needed a hype boost apparently | 17:40 |
| fenn | i would be sad if their kickstarter failed | 17:40 |
| bbrittain | opentrons is... meh | 17:40 |
| kanzure | at least they are using actually open-source-related licenses on their hardware | 17:41 |
| bbrittain | It doesn't enable anything new | 17:41 |
| kanzure | compared to the other group that was trying to be "open source" by fucking over commercial users | 17:41 |
| fenn | it's meh enough that it fills the gaping void that has existed in the diy bio robotics space for decades | 17:41 |
| kanzure | yeah i wouldn't blame this marketing on opentrons really | 17:41 |
| kanzure | this is definitely wired's fault | 17:42 |
| fenn | By Marcus Wohlsen | 17:42 |
| bbrittain | yea, but these indy.bio people are *really loud* | 17:42 |
| kanzure | compare to http://www.opentrons.com/ | 17:42 |
| fenn | i don't see any "indy.bio" | 17:43 |
| fenn | http://indybiosystems.com/ | 17:43 |
| fenn | probably not that | 17:43 |
| kanzure | indybio is the sosventures arm that cathal garvey, jacob shiach and ryan bethencourt are involved with | 17:43 |
| bbrittain | those people can all be summed up as really loud people who don't talk the talk but don't walk it... and tell everyone that we are currently running. | 17:45 |
| bbrittain | remove that first don't | 17:45 |
| nmz787 | cathal is well-grounded IMO and not a loud-mouth AFAIK | 17:46 |
| kanzure | i see that you've been indoctrinated by ginkgo | 17:46 |
| kanzure | they are angry because a lot of those people are non-academics | 17:47 |
| kanzure | so you have to factor that into the equation | 17:47 |
| fenn | bbrittain: do you mean DIYbio? | 17:47 |
| nmz787 | jacob used to seem very techie/sciency but then seemed to dive into biz more and less of the former | 17:47 |
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| bbrittain | fenn: hah hah. yes and no | 17:47 |
| bbrittain | fenn: https://twitter.com/indbio | 17:48 |
| bbrittain | but still yes | 17:48 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: uhhh. I'm not an academic | 17:48 |
| bbrittain | in the slightest | 17:48 |
| kanzure | i did not claim you are an academic | 17:48 |
| kanzure | wtf | 17:48 |
| bbrittain | "indoctrinated by ginkgo" | 17:48 |
| kanzure | yeah? | 17:48 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: dude you went to my school | 17:48 |
| kanzure | that has nothing to do with whether or not you are an academic | 17:48 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: still haven't graduated :) | 17:48 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: me neither! | 17:49 |
| * bbrittain high-fives nmz787 | 17:49 | |
| * nmz787 says in a boastful manner | 17:49 | |
| kanzure | why do you guys keep discovering that you went to the same school | 17:49 |
| nmz787 | :P | 17:49 |
| bbrittain | :D | 17:49 |
| kanzure | you know this has happened before right? | 17:49 |
| kanzure | between you two | 17:49 |
| bbrittain | yes | 17:49 |
| kanzure | k | 17:49 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: well i think of myself as an academic as a result of it | 17:49 |
| kanzure | what | 17:49 |
| kanzure | you didn't spend 200 years as a postdoc | 17:49 |
| nmz787 | going to klown kollege | 17:49 |
| bbrittain | oh, I think of grad school as the start of academia | 17:49 |
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| kanzure | right, that's certainly closer | 17:50 |
| kanzure | maybe if you're in a lab during undergrad the whole time or something | 17:50 |
| nmz787 | no, but I know the system more than someone who never went | 17:50 |
| kanzure | knowing the system doesn't make you an academic :P | 17:50 |
| nmz787 | idk most of my RIT days were lab dayz | 17:50 |
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| bbrittain | true dat. I spend enought time drinking with MIT profs that I know it pretty well | 17:50 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 17:50 |
| bbrittain | s/enought/enough/ | 17:50 |
| nmz787 | guess that's the reality of ignorance | 17:51 |
| nmz787 | i don't even know i didn't know | 17:51 |
| bbrittain | seriously, academia sounds so depressing it's like: | 17:51 |
| kanzure | slavery | 17:51 |
| kanzure | destitute | 17:51 |
| fenn | indentured servitude | 17:51 |
| bbrittain | "hey! you are a rising star! you did everything super fast and right! now be a post-doc in my lab for 8 years doing grunt work and come out with no skills" | 17:51 |
| kanzure | blacker than the blackest black times infinity | 17:51 |
| fenn | no it's finite | 17:52 |
| bbrittain | fenn: tell some people that | 17:52 |
| fenn | that's what makes people think it's worthwhile | 17:52 |
| fenn | .wik indentured servitude | 17:53 |
| yoleaux | "Indentured servitude was a labor system where by young people paid for their passage to the New World by working for an employer for a certain number of years." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude | 17:53 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: so are you saying these self-proclaimed 'academics' are really just persuadable and have no self-motivation/determination? | 17:53 |
| bbrittain | umm, some of them certainly | 17:53 |
| kanzure | they have self-motivation but it is all invested in bad circumstances | 17:53 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgMf2Go-qCE | 17:54 |
| yoleaux | Blacker Than the Blackest Black | Metalocalypse | Adult Swim - YouTube | 17:54 |
| bbrittain | but really it's that they have no... passion? that's not right but it is that they can't see beyond the path layed out for them | 17:54 |
| bbrittain | they don't recognize that it doesn't mean shit | 17:54 |
| bbrittain | I hear things like "well, where else would I learn that except grad school?" | 17:54 |
| bbrittain | and I'm like "RIGHT NOW. YOU WORK IN A LAB FULL OF ROBOTS AND INTERSTING PEOPLE" | 17:55 |
| bbrittain | hint, I'm bitching about a fellow intern | 17:55 |
| kanzure | hehe | 17:55 |
| kanzure | send the intern here | 17:55 |
| kanzure | we will fix that | 17:55 |
| bbrittain | hahahahahahahahahah | 17:55 |
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| fenn | .title http://youtu.be/WX4ldIj1JNI | 17:55 |
| yoleaux | Frederik de Wilde: The blackest black in the world - YouTube | 17:55 |
| fenn | uh nevermind it's a ted talk | 17:56 |
| bbrittain | I think I'm the only intern out of four that really gets it | 17:56 |
| bbrittain | hence why tk and I bond so well :P | 17:56 |
| bbrittain | he's actually a super chill guy | 17:57 |
| kanzure | when he's not writing hate mail to me | 17:57 |
| nmz787 | he got scared away from the diybio list but /does/ still pop in, once or twice in the past 2 or 3 years | 17:57 |
| nmz787 | he sent me a good amount of feedback | 17:57 |
| kanzure | hehe | 17:57 |
| nmz787 | always good refs | 17:57 |
| bbrittain | I'm trying to help him with some of his meso stuff | 17:57 |
| nmz787 | http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/11/mattels-computer-engineer-barbie-leaves-the-computer-engineering-to-the-boys.html | 17:58 |
| nmz787 | what a lame book | 17:59 |
| bbrittain | zomg. yes thats a problem. but so is the first link | 18:00 |
| bbrittain | like. who cares about his shirt. | 18:00 |
| bbrittain | http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/petri-dish-pop | 18:01 |
| fenn | somehow shitty barbie books are our fault? | 18:01 |
| bbrittain | also, I apparently have the chance to help design a music video with OK GO about artisnal bioengineering. I need ideas. | 18:02 |
| bbrittain | current ideas involve a tecan robot being pulled by a tractor with a mumford and sons style | 18:02 |
| kanzure | rap about biology | 18:03 |
| bbrittain | I don't think OK GO really raps... | 18:03 |
| bbrittain | they mostly make pop with cool music videos | 18:03 |
| nmz787 | it needs to involve parachuting into the amazon and then starting a lab out of the forest | 18:04 |
| fenn | rap about biology in french | 18:04 |
| ebowden | +tel Duces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change | 18:04 |
| fenn | it needs to involve basically the entire plot from "Chaff" by Greg Egan | 18:05 |
| fenn | and barbie gets eaten by giant lizards | 18:05 |
| fenn | giant artisanal lizards* | 18:06 |
| bbrittain | I guess I should read Chaff then | 18:06 |
| fenn | i think it's in http://fennetic.net/irc/Greg_Egan_-_Luminous.pdf | 18:07 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID6KY1QBR5s | 18:08 |
| kanzure | .title | 18:08 |
| yoleaux | Bio Rad GTCA Song - YouTube | 18:08 |
| nmz787 | that's actually very very good | 18:08 |
| nmz787 | i've spent plenty of time watching in in the past | 18:08 |
| fenn | oops that's just the story "luminous" not the story collection | 18:09 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhswxo6xow | 18:11 |
| yoleaux | iGEM Style (Gangnam Style Parody) - YouTube | 18:11 |
| nmz787 | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl4L4M8m4d0 | 18:11 |
| yoleaux | Zheng Lab - Bad Project (Lady Gaga parody) - YouTube | 18:11 |
| bbrittain | wow. biologists are nerds | 18:12 |
| nmz787 | ok, who in here will become the old man at the beginning of the GTCA vid? | 18:13 |
| bbrittain | kanzure | 18:13 |
| nmz787 | we need facial difference comparison for this | 18:13 |
| kanzure | nah, i am going to be more like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYAYnCAQRMY | 18:14 |
| nmz787 | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vgJdySaNPXY | 18:14 |
| fenn | .title | 18:14 |
| yoleaux | It's called epMotion - music video - YouTube | 18:14 |
| yoleaux | It's called epMotion - music video - YouTube | 18:14 |
| nmz787 | ^pipetting robots | 18:15 |
| bbrittain | lol | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | oo and SF Gate bridge | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | nice context | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | it's actually not featurin many robots | 18:16 |
| nmz787 | ugh, only one robot at the beginning (barely noticeable) and end | 18:16 |
| nmz787 | oh man, PCR, Kary Mullis, a Bob Dylan impersonator https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x5yPkxCLads | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | .title | 18:18 |
| yoleaux | The PCR Song - YouTube | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | 'PCR, when you need to find out who's your daddy' | 18:18 |
| kanzure | your goal should be to top bio-rad's video | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | yes | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | agreed | 18:20 |
| bbrittain | I mean, I feel I'm cheating 'cause I have OK Go to call on | 18:20 |
| kanzure | oh is that the video they were watching at the beginning of bio-rad's | 18:20 |
| kanzure | i get it now | 18:20 |
| kanzure | i was always confused about that | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | oh | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | really? | 18:20 |
| bbrittain | and like... professional film people | 18:20 |
| kanzure | go look | 18:20 |
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| bbrittain | sam altman: "long-term prediction: total market cap of all YC companies crosses $1 trillion in 2014 dollars by 2035" | 18:24 |
| bbrittain | uhhh | 18:24 |
| bbrittain | I doubt it | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | alright, face_to_compare_to_url=http://imgur.com/Y7fFLFa | 18:24 |
| bbrittain | I doubt YC is gonna be around that long | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: what is a good OK GO song? | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | the video I just watched wasn't too good IMO sound wise | 18:24 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w | 18:26 |
| bbrittain | I never said they were _good_ | 18:26 |
| bbrittain | just that people listen to them & they make good single-shot music videos | 18:26 |
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| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmzMmkAekWo | 18:27 |
| yoleaux | Massague Lab - Don't Stop Pipetting (Don't Stop Believing Parody) - YouTube | 18:27 |
| kanzure | "can't read your protocol it's written in thai" | 18:34 |
| kanzure | that happened to me | 18:34 |
| nmz787 | at the end of the month i was in thailand i was able to read numbers at least | 18:35 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: why were you in thailand? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | had to be somewhere | 18:38 |
| bbrittain | for now... | 18:38 |
| bbrittain | I kinda want to get a sailboat and sail for a couple of years | 18:38 |
| bbrittain | my current crazy plan | 18:39 |
| bbrittain | can't really do bio on a boat though :/ | 18:39 |
| bbrittain | why did I ever leave computers? | 18:39 |
| fenn | bbrittain: found it eventually http://fennetic.net/irc/Egan,_Greg_-_Chapbook_04_-_Chaff.html | 18:40 |
| bbrittain | fenn: dude. awesome. | 18:40 |
| fenn | bbrittain: sounds like a good plan | 18:40 |
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| nmz787 | this is prety good too | 18:41 |
| nmz787 | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd_0OuIVdxU | 18:41 |
| yoleaux | Daft Punk - "Get Lucky" Parody (Get Published) - YouTube | 18:41 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: that jcvi dude was on a boat and doing bio | 18:41 |
| nmz787 | jcv he would be | 18:41 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: right. I don't have infinite money | 18:42 |
| nmz787 | well you gotta have goals | 18:42 |
| kanzure | yeah | 18:42 |
| kanzure | and standards | 18:42 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: was just being a tourist, learned to scuba dive, got suits tailored | 18:43 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: nice. getting suits tailored in asia is always a good plan | 18:43 |
| nmz787 | hmm, that last vid was from 'yale retreat 2013' so they're academics, and their lyrics are obviously prety decent | 18:43 |
| bbrittain | I wonder if there are academics that idle in this channel | 18:44 |
| fenn | i see a few | 18:55 |
| * heath nods | 18:57 | |
| -!- night is now known as finals | 19:02 | |
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| -!- finals is now known as night | 19:03 | |
| fenn | so many books | 19:05 |
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| nmz787 | .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLRSkRioRA | 21:29 |
| yoleaux | Operating a Vulcan Iron Works 0-4-0T Steam Locomotive - YouTube | 21:29 |
| nmz787 | I watched one before that on how to repair some old gear | 21:29 |
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| superkuh | Dang. Electrolysis of aluminum wire will not work for my purposes. Barrier films of the oxide only get so thick before they start forming regular grids of pores. | 22:17 |
| superkuh | Max thickness of about a micrometer and ~700v standoff. | 22:18 |
| superkuh | The pore stuff was neat to read about though. Accidental nano-structure. | 22:19 |
| fenn | the pore is sealed in the anodizing process with hot water (or some chemical solution?) | 22:26 |
| fenn | http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-sealing-process-is-so-important.html | 22:27 |
| superkuh | I don't care about chemical resistance though. Only dielectric strength. I've read that as long as the solution is neutral (not acidic), current is kept low, and voltage high (>100 V), pores should not form until after ~1 micrometer. But that is not enough. So back to the alumina epoxies, I guess. | 22:29 |
| fenn | the sealing process fills the pores with alumina; how is adding aggregated alumina flakes suspended in epoxy any better? | 22:31 |
| superkuh | Not better, really. But if that route has to be taken why do both processes? It's more work. | 22:31 |
| fenn | sorry, i guess it's actually aluminum hydroxide | 22:32 |
| fenn | because boiling in distilled water is not a lot of work? and it's more uniform and consistent | 22:33 |
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| gene_hacker | are you trying to grow sapphire electrolytically? | 23:20 |
| superkuh | No. Just a thick dielectric layer on aluminum wire. | 23:21 |
| superkuh | it is quickly becoming obvious that I am ignorant of most things regarding the process. But it is fun to learn. Lots of neat little diversions like the pore formation stuff. | 23:23 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Nov 21 00:00:57 2014 | ||
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