| --- Day changed Tue Dec 16 2014 | ||
| nmz787 | the charges are on different locations | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| kragen | anyway, I think subcritical liquid CO₂ should work fine | 00:00 |
| nmz787 | and of different strengths | 00:00 |
| kragen | no, polar bonds really do form very differently from hydrogen bonds :) | 00:02 |
| kragen | oh speaking of solvents | 00:02 |
| kragen | can you use dimethyl sulfoxide to take in lipids through your skin? enough to keep you alive for a while? | 00:03 |
| kragen | apparently it gets to be neurotoxic at over 0.3mℓ/kg, which is to say, I should be able to take 30mℓ of it before I start to suffer ill effects; but I don't know how much lipids that could transport through my skin, or how long the pharmacokinetic half-life of DMSO is | 00:06 |
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| nmz787 | they sell it for that, yea | 00:07 |
| kragen | but I should be able to survive on about 100-250mℓ of lipids a day until I start to get kwashiorkor | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | (they used to sell it at the food co-op i went to odd enough) | 00:08 |
| kragen | yeah, it's an alternative medicine | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | and i was talking about ionic vs polar bonds | 00:08 |
| kragen | oh | 00:09 |
| kragen | well, I don't think CO₂ is going to participate in ionic or polar bonds | 00:09 |
| kragen | and lipids aren't very good at doing that either | 00:09 |
| nmz787 | erhmm, eh, nevermind | 00:09 |
| nmz787 | i am confused :P | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | i meant non-polar | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | but was thinking you meant van-der-waals when you said hydrogen | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | anyway, it seems like it's all just the vector strength of the field | 00:10 |
| kragen | aren't nonpolar liquids kept from boiling by van der waals hydrogen bonding? | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | probably | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | sounds about right | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | maybe something with conductivity of phonons (heat) vs vapor pressure | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | idk | 00:12 |
| kragen | "15 percent DMSO will easily penetrate the bladder" | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | i need to go to sleep though! | 00:12 |
| kragen | "I have used as much as 30 ml IV over a couple of hours" | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | .wik hybridoma | 00:16 |
| yoleaux | "Hybridoma technology is a technology of forming hybrid cell lines (called hybridomas) by fusing an antibody-producing B cell with a myeloma (B cell cancer) cell that is selected for its ability to grow in tissue culture and for an absence of antibody chain synthesis." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybridoma | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | I think we used DMSO to meld cells together to make those ^ | 00:16 |
| kragen | "some of these patients had received as much as 3 g/kg per day" | 00:17 |
| nmz787 | huh, this has a dir listing, with issues dating to 1949 http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/ | 00:17 |
| kragen | 3g/kg would probably be enough to carry enough lipids through my skin to satisfy my normal energy needs | 00:17 |
| kragen | wget -r! | 00:17 |
| kragen | they're only a meg each | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | "Permission to copy without fee all or part of this publication is hereby granted provided that 1)the copies are not made, used, displayed, or distributed for commercial advantage; 2) the Hewlett-Packard Company copyright notice and the title of the publication and date appear on the copies; and 3) a notice appears stating that the copying is by permission of the Hewlett-Packard Company." | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | sounds good to me! | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | this even has some lookup tables http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/ | 00:19 |
| * nmz787 sleeps | 00:20 | |
| kragen | that's fantastic! | 00:20 |
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| archels | does anyone know a good writeup of the GJK algorithm, and solutions for finding the supporting vectors on common shapes (box, sphere, cone etc.)? | 06:11 |
| kanzure | too bad that these guys don't have a custom api https://www.flexport.com/ | 06:11 |
| kanzure | i don't know a good writeup for that, sorry | 06:13 |
| archels | 'sokay | 06:18 |
| archels | I think I should just not be lazy and do the vector maths myself | 06:18 |
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| kanzure | "to produce a synthesized light field that falls upon the retina in the same way as light reflected from real objects in your environment. Depth perception, in this system, isn’t just a trick played on the brain by showing it two slightly different images" | 10:08 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8758074 | 10:08 |
| yoleaux | Neal Stephenson Joins Magic Leap | Hacker News | 10:08 |
| kanzure | "But if they're trying for something much heavier-weight, like the ability to create convincing illusions not in the form-factor of "some goggles," but rather, "a specially prepared room and table," then that's maybe a little more realistic" | 10:09 |
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| nmz787_i1 | are there any magicleap pics? | 10:38 |
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| fenn | wuh downloading pdfs from hp @ 17MB/s | 11:41 |
| kanzure | colocated in your basement | 11:41 |
| fenn | 3.2GB in 4m34s | 11:41 |
| kanzure | blockchain description blog post thing relayed by some farmer in #swhack https://www.igvita.com/2014/05/05/minimum-viable-block-chain/ | 11:42 |
| fenn | there are farmers in #swhack? | 11:43 |
| fenn | first pirates, then miners, then farmers.. cyberia is shaping up to be a real civilized place | 11:44 |
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| kanzure | coordinating people to use the same irc channels is a difficult problem | 11:51 |
| kanzure | and in summary i hate people | 11:51 |
| fenn | you're welcome | 11:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | fenn: was it these? http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/hp_journal/ | 11:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: no, i don't mean you | 11:52 |
| nmz787_i1 | apparently wget -r added more than I thought it would | 11:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: in this case, kragen has been avoiding #bitcoin-wizards so he decided to use #swhack to discuss bittorrent dht incentive blockchain stuff instead | 11:52 |
| kanzure | even though i've asked him really nicely to use bitcoin-wizards and promised him lots of wonderful reasons to do so | 11:52 |
| fenn | wtf i totally checked your directory first nmz787_i1 | 11:52 |
| fenn | ls: cannot access /home/nmz787/*hp*: No such file or directory | 11:53 |
| kanzure | that's not how /home works | 11:53 |
| fenn | guess i should have used find | 11:53 |
| kanzure | you want /home/nmz787/public_html/ | 11:54 |
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| nmz787_i1 | http://www.roadtovr.com/what-we-know-about-magic-leap-rumored-500m-investment-funding/3/ | 11:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | "The projector apparatus of claim 88, wherein the support element comprises a piezoelectric collar that receives at least the first optical fiber proximate but spaced rear-wardly from the front end of the first optical fiber such that a portion of the first optical fiber proximate the front end thereof extends from the piezoelectric collar and is free to oscillate with a defined resonance frequency." | 11:56 |
| nmz787_i1 | " While Fig. 38 shows a single optical fiber 3812, some implementations may employ two or more optical fibers 3812, breaking the light up into multiple channels. In such implementations, the optical fibers 3812 may have staggered tips or beveled and polished tips to bend the light, reducing optical spacing between the channels. The optical fibers 3812 may be conveniently packaged as a ribbon cable. Suitable optics may produce a | 11:58 |
| nmz787_i1 | conjugate of the respective images produced by each of the channels." | 11:58 |
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| nmz787_i1 | "Applying control signals, e.g., via frame buffer 3828, to respective electrodes 3813 associated with the piezoelectric transducer 3814a can cause the front or proximate end 3812b of the optical fiber(s) 3812 to oscillate vibrate in a first resonance mode. A size of vibrations or amount of travel off center is controllable via the applied drive signals to obtain any of a variety of at least bi-axial patterns. Patterns may, for | 11:58 |
| nmz787_i1 | instance, include a raster scan pattern, spiral or volute scan pattern, or a Lissajous or figure 8 scan pattern." | 11:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: i could accept a reasonable argument from you about not being in swhack at all, i didn't mean to imply i needed you to join etc | 12:00 |
| fenn | i was curious about the farmer | 12:00 |
| kanzure | and also, it seems counterproductive to do important discussions in a privately logged channel anyway | 12:01 |
| nmz787_i1 | "Providers such as Asahi-Kasei and Mitsubishi of Japan offer multi-core optical fibers or fused-tapered multi-core fibers. Because these materials would facilitate the possibility of scanning multiple pixels at once (as opposed to the single pixel presently scanned) , the total resolution of at the image plane can be increased for a given scan frequency, and the effective frame rate may be increased while maintaining or even | 12:01 |
| nmz787_i1 | increasing the spatial resolution of the display. Figures 7A and 7B illustrate embodiments of available multi-core optical fiber configurations (Figure 7A illustrates a cross-sectional view 50 of a multi-core configuration; Figure 7B illustrates a side view 52 of a tapered multi-core configuration) ." | 12:01 |
| fenn | why do they still bother with [off] if it's privately logged | 12:02 |
| kanzure | their private logger strips [off] messages :p | 12:02 |
| * fenn looks underneath for the hidden prize | 12:03 | |
| fenn | there's nothing but moldbugs and mildews under here | 12:04 |
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| fenn | was it a dutch farmer | 12:12 |
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| nmz787_i | http://makrshakr.com/en/specs | 13:12 |
| archels | they got the unit wrong for man-hours | 13:18 |
| kanzure | what's the right unit for man-hours? | 13:20 |
| nmz787_i | persons/hour? | 13:20 |
| fenn | man*hours | 13:22 |
| fenn | .c 41000 hours in years | 13:23 |
| yoleaux | convert 41000 hours to years = 4.68 years | 13:23 |
| archels | worse, the robots seem to spill copiously when mixing a drink | 13:24 |
| fenn | i guess it throws the glass at the customer so they can't get in its workspace | 13:25 |
| archels | I wonder, are they programmed for cleanup duty also? | 13:25 |
| archels | heh yeah | 13:25 |
| archels | self-defense programme | 13:25 |
| fenn | safety protocol | 13:25 |
| fenn | i find it really hard to believe that this hasn't existed in japan for at least a decade | 13:26 |
| fenn | "but smartphones!"! | 13:26 |
| fenn | you should be able to just tell the robot what you want | 13:27 |
| fenn | also "add to cart" is such a bad metaphor for ordering a drink | 13:28 |
| fenn | i hate it | 13:29 |
| kanzure | man-hours is a poor unit anyway | 13:45 |
| kanzure | due to variability | 13:45 |
| kanzure | even if there was an effective emulation standard man-hours would still not work ("brain-hours" i guess) | 13:45 |
| kanzure | because it's something ike "whatever the dimensional effectiveness of brains solving problems happen to be, multiplied by the amount of hours they are computing this function" | 13:45 |
| pasky | bzz | 13:50 |
| nmz787_i | this is decent http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0108097 | 13:52 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 13:52 |
| yoleaux | PLOS ONE: The OpenPicoAmp: An Open-Source Planar Lipid Bilayer Amplifier for Hands-On Learning of Neuroscience | 13:52 |
| kanzure | pasky: hm? | 13:52 |
| kanzure | it can't be "some ineffable dimensional quantity multiplied by some totally effable quantity" | 13:53 |
| kanzure | that's not how units work | 13:53 |
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| pasky | chido stole my cellphone | 13:56 |
| archels | lots of goodies here http://www.geometrictools.com/ | 13:56 |
| kanzure | .title | 13:57 |
| yoleaux | Geometric Tools | 13:57 |
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| kanzure | one day i will solve the irc coordination problem | 14:21 |
| kanzure | and then i will retire | 14:21 |
| kanzure | "isolated game theorist" problem: two game theorists know about each other but refuse to interact. and uh... both sides have asymmetric partial information.. and uh.. neither side thinks about both parties as likely game theorists. | 14:24 |
| fenn | challenge both of them to a game of tit-tat-toe and do a mitm attack | 14:26 |
| fenn | i see your theory and raise you a hypothesis | 14:27 |
| kanzure | playing irc relay is not a productive use of my time (or maybe it is...) | 14:27 |
| fenn | each game theorist writes a letter petitioning the king, who is under seige in a fortress... | 14:28 |
| kanzure | and the letter contains an agreement about which irc channel they will use? | 14:28 |
| fenn | but no game theorist receives the letter of any other | 14:28 |
| nmz787_i | and this is why message boards. | 14:29 |
| kanzure | no, this is not why message boards -_- | 14:29 |
| fenn | BANNINATE! | 14:29 |
| kanzure | i may have accepted "and this is why email" | 14:29 |
| nmz787_i | well i meant the message boards that have email option | 14:29 |
| kanzure | none of them do | 14:29 |
| * nmz787_i gets red in the face | 14:29 | |
| kanzure | none of them do email right | 14:30 |
| nmz787_i | mailman? | 14:30 |
| kanzure | message boards just send you email and don't let you send back | 14:30 |
| kanzure | and most message boards don't actually reliably send you email for all threads and all posts in all conceivable subforums etc | 14:30 |
| nmz787_i | wait isn't mailman a message board software? | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | or is that termed differently? | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | is mailman not fixable because it's so old/crappy? | 14:31 |
| fenn | mailman is an extraterrestrial artificial intelligence designed to destroy our precious civilization | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | huh, it seems this board may have switched to Indian calendar? http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex/ | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://www.oregonlive.com/hg/index.ssf/2014/11/fruit_tree_disease_prevent_wit.html | 14:33 |
| yoleaux | OSU horticulturist lists least toxic sprays and treatments for fruit trees | OregonLive.com | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | "Latex paint: Coat the trunks of young trees with white exterior latex paint diluted in half with water. The paint reflects strong sunlight and prevents sunburn and winter burn that can cause tissue damage and lead to cracks, a favorite place for pests to overwinter and cause substantial winter damage." | 14:34 |
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| nmz787_i | arduino just larger than a U.S. quarter-dollar http://www.adafruit.com/gemma | 14:37 |
| kragen | is it washable? | 14:37 |
| nmz787_i | $8 not bad either, not from ebay/aliexpress | 14:37 |
| nmz787_i | doesn't seem like kragen | 14:37 |
| nmz787_i | maybe with some silicone it could be made so | 14:37 |
| nmz787_i | brb | 14:38 |
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| fenn | it's not the washing it's the drying that causes static | 14:40 |
| fenn | washing also breaks solder joints tho | 14:40 |
| fenn | can sew a dense felt strain relief backing pad around it | 14:41 |
| fenn | you can't wash it with the battery in unless you want corroded terminals | 14:41 |
| kanzure | mailman is a mailing list implementation | 14:42 |
| kragen | you can line-dry your clothes | 14:42 |
| kragen | mailing lists are a message board implementation | 14:42 |
| kanzure | most people do not consider mailman to be a forum or message board because there's no web interface to post messages | 14:42 |
| kanzure | most people who say "forum" mean junk like phpbb | 14:42 |
| fenn | mailman is a one-to-many email relay with web-based archive functionality | 14:46 |
| fenn | also it routes moderation to the moderator and handles subscription mostly automatically | 14:47 |
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| fenn | mailman could easily have a web interface to post messages, but it would still be an email relay | 14:48 |
| kanzure | and then you could call it sympa | 14:49 |
| fenn | sure whatever | 14:49 |
| kanzure | damn sympa's already taken | 14:50 |
| fenn | you could call it mailwwwman | 14:50 |
| kanzure | "notalking" | 14:50 |
| fenn | or femailwwwmyn if you're a bitch | 14:51 |
| fenn | i think the pie is rotting my brain | 14:51 |
| kanzure | you have to put "bbs" in the name or else china will never use it | 14:51 |
| fenn | my brain is a distributed hash table | 14:51 |
| fenn | i can't tell what's a collision and what's a coincidence | 14:52 |
| fenn | .wik sybil | 14:52 |
| yoleaux | "Sibyls were oracular women believed to possess prophetic powers in ancient Greece." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil | 14:52 |
| kanzure | .wik sybil attack | 14:52 |
| yoleaux | "The Sybil attack in computer security is an attack wherein a reputation system is subverted by forging identities in peer-to-peer networks. It is named after the subject of the book Sybil, a case study of a woman diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder. The name was suggested in or before 2002 by Brian Zill at Microsoft Research." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack | 14:52 |
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| fenn | i wish it weren't named "sybil" - dissociative identity disorder is similar to a lot of problems in DHT's under DoS attack | 14:54 |
| fenn | er, s/DHT/distributed consensus/ | 14:54 |
| kanzure | i wonder why sybil-style things aren't immediately obvious to everyone | 14:54 |
| fenn | because 20/20 hindsight | 14:55 |
| kanzure | you can know upfront that things are spoofable | 14:56 |
| fenn | i wonder why 10kHz positive bias sine wave DC power isn't obvious to everyone | 14:56 |
| kanzure | does that have a spoofing problem? | 14:57 |
| fenn | no | 14:57 |
| kanzure | you'll have to help me with the analogy | 14:57 |
| fenn | uh.. lots of things are obvious improvements over what we've got | 14:57 |
| fenn | but people are stupid and there are entrenched interests that fight against change | 14:57 |
| kragen | fenn: Lawrence Detweiler called it "pseudospoofing" but because he was a paranoid loon people didn't adopt that terminology | 14:57 |
| kanzure | sybil attacks do not have easy solutions at all | 14:57 |
| kanzure | or obvious solutions | 14:57 |
| kanzure | but their presence should be obvious | 14:58 |
| kanzure | *the presence of the sybil problems or sybil attacks | 14:58 |
| kragen | 10kHz sounds like a terrible idea, fenn. why would you want that? | 14:58 |
| fenn | smaller transformers, less power factor conversion for the substation to do, less chance of electric shock, easy to rectify (it's DC) | 15:00 |
| kragen | why not 40kHz? | 15:00 |
| fenn | no particular reason | 15:00 |
| kragen | 10kHz is a really annoying sound | 15:01 |
| fenn | ok 40KHz then | 15:01 |
| kragen | you lose AC motors though | 15:01 |
| kragen | well, big ones | 15:01 |
| fenn | at a certain point the skin effect starts making your wires less effective conductors because the center of the wire isn't conducting anything | 15:01 |
| kragen | yes, long-distance transmission lines already suffer significantly from this, which is the reason for investigating HVDC and also the reason for Litz wire and for multiple parallel conductors a few centimeters apart strung from the transmission towers | 15:02 |
| fenn | also transistor switching losses if you have to generate the sine wave from flat DC or some other format | 15:02 |
| kragen | yes; will that be a big deal in the kHz range? | 15:03 |
| fenn | switching losses are linearly proportional to switching speed in this range | 15:03 |
| fenn | not a big deal | 15:03 |
| fenn | most of the loss would happen in long distance transmission line anyway | 15:04 |
| fenn | most big AC motors are three phase anyway | 15:05 |
| fenn | they should be controlled by a VFD | 15:05 |
| fenn | if you really want to hardwire your three phase motor to the utility lines, maybe something based on beat frequencies could be cooked up | 15:06 |
| kragen | nowadays many of them are, to a surprising extent | 15:06 |
| kragen | .t https://twitter.com/kragen/status/544988545338052608 | 15:06 |
| yoleaux | kragen: Sorry, I don't know a timezone by that name. | 15:06 |
| kragen | .tw https://twitter.com/kragen/status/544988545338052608 | 15:06 |
| yoleaux | https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-to-do-with-a-washing-machine-motor.550058/#post-3850658 Interesting, new washing machine motors (¼–¾HP) use a three-phase motor controlled by a VFD? (Or a stepper?) AWESOME (@kragen) | 15:06 |
| fenn | fischer paykel washing machines have these giant stepper motors that are directly linked to the wash drum | 15:07 |
| kragen | I thought stepper motors were somehow grievously inefficient? | 15:08 |
| fenn | i've sort of lost track of the difference between a stepper and a ac servo | 15:08 |
| fenn | something about the shape of the EMF waveform being trapezoidal or sinusoidal due to magnetic reluctance from the shape of the rotor/stator | 15:08 |
| fenn | (steppers are trapezoidal, ac servos are sinusoidal) | 15:09 |
| kragen | I see | 15:09 |
| fenn | this makes steppers easier to drive by simply turning a transistor on, since the "impedance" matches | 15:09 |
| fenn | sorry for the tangent on electrical power formats | 15:12 |
| fenn | i was just complaining about how everything's obvious | 15:12 |
| fenn | also everything's totally broken | 15:13 |
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| kanzure | "In contrast to most recent work in peer-to-peer software, our design is based on mathematical proofs of security rather than hand-waving." | 15:25 |
| kanzure | http://szabo.best.vwh.net/securetitle.html | 15:25 |
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| fenn | insufficiently skeptical title but interesting nevertheless http://news.sky.com/story/1393058/mars-curiosity-rover-finds-signs-of-life | 16:06 |
| fenn | "Plumes of methane have been identified on the planet in the past, but none as sudden as the "venting" measured at Gale Crater." | 16:07 |
| kanzure | do these robots have microscopes? | 16:07 |
| fenn | curiosity has a bunch of stuff | 16:08 |
| kanzure | i remember lots of mass-spec-style equipment | 16:08 |
| nsh | fenn, i thought that, then i thought "sign of life" is still a sign of life even if there's no life | 16:08 |
| nsh | it just reads more positively at first glance for some reason | 16:08 |
| nsh | signs consistent with life would be more precise i guess | 16:09 |
| kanzure | "signs not totally incompatible with the presence or non-presence of lifelike things" | 16:10 |
| kanzure | a thing i still like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry | 16:11 |
| fenn | it has a GC/MS and "mars hand lens imager" with resolution of 15 microns in white and ultraviolet | 16:11 |
| kanzure | oh good | 16:11 |
| fenn | uh, white/UV illumination and "true color" imager | 16:11 |
| fenn | also it can poke at stuff | 16:12 |
| fenn | see if it squirms | 16:12 |
| fenn | nsh: it's tantamount to shouting "curiosity discovers life on mars!!!" that's all | 16:13 |
| fenn | run through the journalism game of telephone a few times and i bet you'll see that | 16:13 |
| nsh | yeah, but i'm suggesting that's a failure of the reader more than the headline editor | 16:13 |
| nsh | you are right though | 16:14 |
| fenn | if it turns out to be life this conversation will be moot :P | 16:14 |
| * nsh smiles | 16:14 | |
| kanzure | this conversation will be had millions of times over, until the end of time | 16:14 |
| kanzure | for each planet or astronomical object | 16:14 |
| fenn | party pooper | 16:15 |
| nsh | i hope it's something that's clearly not alive but clearly not not alive | 16:15 |
| kanzure | plus there will be crap like "nah dawg after uncle elon everything just was contaminated with earth shit" | 16:15 |
| nsh | and conceptually fucks up everything | 16:15 |
| fenn | this is the first time life will have been discovered on another planet, that only happens once in earth history | 16:15 |
| nsh | so does this | 16:15 |
| fenn | nsh what? | 16:15 |
| fenn | not p but clearly not not p | 16:16 |
| nsh | i mean, i'm unsettled by the assumption that we'll definitely be able to say mars has life or doesn't have life | 16:16 |
| nsh | i don't think we understand what we mean by life well enough to be certain of that discernability | 16:16 |
| fenn | meh it will probably strongly resemble earth life if there's anything there | 16:16 |
| fenn | as in, DNA, bacteria/archaea, genetic sequences in common | 16:17 |
| nsh | yeah, probably. would be fun if it kicked us in the balls though | 16:17 |
| kanzure | suppose that some terraforming process is initiated (perhaps by accident, e.g. carrying bacteria to the planet, or something), what's the minimum amount of time for there to be an average of 1 cell per 10e16 grains of sand if they have a doubling time of 24 hours? | 16:17 |
| kanzure | s/sand/surface particles | 16:17 |
| kanzure | .wa surface area of mars | 16:17 |
| yoleaux | Mars: surface area: 1.4×10⁸ km² (square kilometers); Unit conversions: 1.4×10¹⁴ m² (square meters); 56 million mi² (square miles); 1.6×10¹⁵ ft² (square feet); Comparisons as area: ~0.42 × ocean area on the earth (~132 million mi²); ~0.97 × land area on the earth (1.4894×10⁸ km²); ~4 × largest extent of the British Empire (~36 Mm²); Corresponding quantities: Radius r of a circle from A = pir²:: 6800 km ( … | 16:17 |
| yoleaux | kilometers): 4200 miles | 16:17 |
| kanzure | .wa surface area of united states | 16:18 |
| yoleaux | United States: total area: 9.631×10⁶ km² (square kilometers) (world rank: 3rd); Unit conversions: 9.631×10¹² m² (square meters); 3.719 million mi² (square miles); 1.037×10¹⁴ ft² (square feet); Comparisons as area: ~0.96 × total area of Canada (9.98467×10⁶ km²); ~1.004 × total area of China (9.59696×10⁶ km²); ~largest extent of the Roman Empire (~9 Mm²) | 16:18 |
| fenn | kanzure just go read red mars by kim stanley robinson | 16:18 |
| kanzure | anywho if some terraforming-compatible critter ends up on mars it may be really difficult to figure out whether we put that there | 16:18 |
| fenn | yes there will be endless denial from ... someone | 16:19 |
| fenn | "it doesn't say anything about mars in the bible!" | 16:19 |
| kanzure | well what if we really did terraform the planet | 16:19 |
| fenn | well what if mars really did areoform earth | 16:19 |
| fenn | it will be hard to do a good analysis without DNA sequencing, but before launching a big sample return mission they will want better evidence than just methane spikes | 16:22 |
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| fenn | it's kinda ridiculous when you look at the actual distances covered by the rovers, and imagine trying to find life on earth in a desert and only traveling 4 km | 16:24 |
| kanzure | but fly-overs? | 16:26 |
| kanzure | and http://www.google.com/mars/ | 16:26 |
| kanzure | fly-overs over earth could probably detect bacteria | 16:27 |
| kanzure | various dirts | 16:27 |
| fenn | yes there are probably not herds of wild tfoof galloping around | 16:28 |
| fenn | satellites can't detect bacteria under the soil | 16:31 |
| fenn | there have been obvious cases of water runoff in before/after images, but not any actual pictures of water on the surface (which might contain pigmented microbes that could be seen) | 16:32 |
| fenn | what a weird page http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~hooft101/technoz.html | 16:38 |
| kanzure | hehe hooft is still alive? | 16:38 |
| fenn | reminds me of "after man" by dougal dixon | 16:40 |
| fenn | "Eventually and inevitably, squids will land on the Moon." | 16:42 |
| fenn | scientists say squids will land on moon | 16:42 |
| fenn | SQUIDS ON MOON details at 7 | 16:43 |
| fenn | Do Moon Squids Threaten Humanity? | 16:43 |
| fenn | Threat of Attack by Squids at All-Time High | 16:44 |
| kanzure | i'd be more worried about moon octopus but that's just me | 16:44 |
| fenn | well it made more sense in context http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~hooft101/extratr.html | 16:45 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/1622/20120266 | 17:50 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:50 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1098%2Frstb.2012.0266 | 17:50 |
| yoleaux | Why did eukaryotes evolve only once? Genetic and energetic aspects of conflict and conflict mediation | Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences | 17:50 |
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| kanzure | http://www.theonion.com/articles/archaeological-dig-uncovers-ancient-race-of-skelet,1268/ | 19:41 |
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| jrayhawk | the whole alphaproteobacteria origins concept seems so low-probability that i am surprised it's even in question why only one species won the race to it | 21:13 |
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| kanzure | http://www.meme.com.au/papers/Islets/Islets.html | 21:35 |
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