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| kanzure | Daeken: nope not at the moment | 05:29 |
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| kanzure | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11480376/Kant-is-a-moron-vandals-critique-the-philosophers-home.html | 06:05 |
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| kanzure | "His country house has not been so lucky, however. Despite years of promises to restore it, the building is run down, close to collapse, and favoured by the local youth as an underage drinking den, reported newkaliningrad.ru, a local news site." | 06:08 |
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| kanzure | "The dude invented BitTorrent." "No, he extended the ideas of MojoNation and called it BitTorrent." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MojoNation | 06:23 |
| kanzure | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnet_(peer-to-peer_network)#MojoNation | 06:23 |
| kanzure | "Mojo was a digital cash currency that aimed to provide attack resistance and load balancing in a fully distributed and incentive-compatible way (see Agoric computing). Every pair of MojoNation nodes maintained a relative credit balance, with every EGTP request transferring some Mojo credit from the sender to the receiver. In early versions of MojoNation, users were required to set prices for any services their node provided. Most users ... | 06:23 |
| kanzure | ... had no idea how to choose prices, so the Mojo layer was rewritten to use a second-price rolling auction." | 06:23 |
| kanzure | "This has been explored in sci-fi by Jack McDevitt in his Priscilla Hutchins series. He had large Omega Clouds of alien devices attacking anything with straight lines and right-angles, as those were indicative of intelligence." | 06:29 |
| eudoxia | inb4 "muh bismuth crystals" | 06:37 |
| kanzure | mojonation overview http://www.cs.kent.edu/~javed/class-FP2P10S/papers-2006/mojonation.pdf | 06:44 |
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| kanzure | this may seem hilariously trivial but it's a weakness of mine https://gist.github.com/kanzure/17dd25ddc6c6207c3817 | 06:56 |
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| JayDugger | How did you get from MojoNation to that HN quote, kanzure? | 07:32 |
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| kanzure | apparently this is called subitizing http://mathsavvyparents.com/wp-content/uploads/subs.pdf | 07:38 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: many tabs open | 07:39 |
| JayDugger | Ah. | 07:40 |
| kanzure | http://enablingthefuture.org/upper-limb-prosthetics/the-limbitless-arm/ | 08:18 |
| kanzure | limbitless... hah. | 08:18 |
| kanzure | hehe making it about kids is clever | 08:19 |
| kanzure | but why are there so many kids missing limbs? what's going on | 08:20 |
| juri_ | capitalism. | 08:25 |
| kanzure | ? | 08:26 |
| juri_ | unbridaled capitalism -> military industrial complex -> bombs for everyone! | 08:28 |
| ParahSailin | these are white kids in america though | 08:28 |
| juri_ | oh, then i dunno. | 08:29 |
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| archels | .title http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150310/srep08920/full/srep08920.html | 09:43 |
| yoleaux | Visualization of synaptic domains in the Drosophila brain by magnetic resonance microscopy at 10 micron isotropic resolution : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group | 09:43 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150310/srep08920/full/srep08920.html | 09:44 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fsrep08920 | 09:44 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150310/srep08920/pdf/srep08920.pdf | 09:44 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fe850940806299559413b71a57c7d4c5.pdf | 09:45 |
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| ParahSailin | kanzure: why do you need to practice counting zeros? | 09:56 |
| kanzure | highlighting zeros is dumb, and ctrl-n to bring up a terminal also takes too long | 10:00 |
| ParahSailin | you are dealing with numbers with 18 zeros? | 10:02 |
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| archels | consider that you're trying to solve the wrong problem here | 10:17 |
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| kanzure | space walrus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3fr6c9Ek64 | 11:11 |
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| kanzure | 12:04 < CaptHindsight> and the chemist (and i use the term loosely) at makerjuice doesn't believe in oxygen inhibition of free radical curing | 12:05 |
| kanzure | http://radtech.org/2014proceedings/papers/technical-conference/Oxygen%20Inhibition/Arceneaux%20-%20Mitigation%20of%20Oxygen%20Inhibition%20in%20UV%20LED,%20UVA,%20and%20Low%20Intensity%20UV%20Cure.pdf | 12:06 |
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| kanzure | .title http://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?topic=40.0 | 12:39 |
| yoleaux | Microscope Projection Photolithography for Rapid Prototyping | 12:39 |
| CaptHindsight | yes, we develop all sorts of lithography and deposition systems | 12:40 |
| kanzure | Daeken: you around? | 12:41 |
| Daeken | kanzure: yup | 12:42 |
| Daeken | what's up? | 12:42 |
| kanzure | found you a friend | 12:42 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: that inverse microscope is good to down ~1um lines | 12:43 |
| kanzure | our weakspot is optics at the moment | 12:43 |
| Daeken | optics for what? | 12:43 |
| kanzure | image reduction | 12:43 |
| kanzure | buying microscopes is nice but that's not how you do engineering :P | 12:44 |
| CaptHindsight | cheap lasers would make 2 photon lithography desktop and cheap | 12:44 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: what are you trying to print and at what geometry? | 12:44 |
| Daeken | i'm not sure why we need optics for it at all -- the feature size for direct mask lithography is well within what we need, i'd think | 12:45 |
| kanzure | need general platform of photolithography of micro-stuff... somewhere in the range of 1 to 50 micron resolution. really we don't care. | 12:45 |
| kanzure | for microelectronics and microfluidics | 12:45 |
| kanzure | mostly microfluidics at the moment | 12:45 |
| Daeken | kanzure: yeah, there's no need for optics for that | 12:45 |
| CaptHindsight | thats easy | 12:45 |
| Daeken | 1um can be done directly, with super cheap masks | 12:45 |
| kanzure | Daeken: but i'd rather not pay $500/mask etc... i mean... what if i make 1000 things. | 12:46 |
| kanzure | i'm gonna blow my budget eventually | 12:46 |
| CaptHindsight | yeah masks are for mass production | 12:46 |
| CaptHindsight | onesy twosy is easy to print | 12:46 |
| Daeken | print in what way? | 12:46 |
| kanzure | figuring out the exact optical parameters and catalog items to order has not been easy for me | 12:46 |
| kanzure | (for lenses/etc) | 12:47 |
| CaptHindsight | microfluids in monomers and oligomers? | 12:47 |
| Daeken | i'm researching laser printing of transparencies for this, to avoid expensive masks. in theory, should hit the same resolution for a tiny fraction of the cost | 12:47 |
| Daeken | seems like a way cheaper route to go than anything else, from the looks of it | 12:47 |
| kanzure | fenn: maybe you're around? | 12:48 |
| CaptHindsight | I'm printing electronics using just fluids including the PCB down to few microns | 12:48 |
| Daeken | CaptHindsight: using what process? | 12:48 |
| CaptHindsight | inkjet and SLA | 12:49 |
| Daeken | huh, interesting | 12:49 |
| CaptHindsight | most of the work is in the fluids | 12:49 |
| Daeken | how is that? | 12:50 |
| CaptHindsight | the work is in the materials science, the deposition and lithography are mostly academic exercises | 12:51 |
| CaptHindsight | lasers, micro-nozzles, inkjet etc are nothing new | 12:52 |
| CaptHindsight | you can build multi-axis stages with sub micron res with off the shelf parts | 12:52 |
| kanzure | stages, sure, that's no problem | 12:53 |
| chris_99 | you mean you're using some kind of conductive fluid to print the tracks? | 12:54 |
| CaptHindsight | yes, copper | 12:55 |
| CaptHindsight | http://imagebin.ca/v/1vOVGSfHFgPt this 5-axis stage holds an inverse microscope, it's good down to 1um | 12:56 |
| chris_99 | you mean you're etching or..? | 12:56 |
| CaptHindsight | no etching, depositing | 12:56 |
| CaptHindsight | all deposition including semiconductors | 12:57 |
| chris_99 | ah | 12:57 |
| CaptHindsight | organic polymer semiconductor materials | 12:58 |
| CaptHindsight | they started using synthetic DNA for anti-counterfeit | 13:00 |
| CaptHindsight | it's only going to be secure for a short time | 13:00 |
| CaptHindsight | since as you pointed out that DNA printing has gotten much faster and cheaper | 13:01 |
| CaptHindsight | combined with a scanner/sequencer it will be like going to kinkos | 13:02 |
| kanzure | dna sequencing is cheaper, but dna synthesis has not really moved in price point | 13:02 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130324-synthesizing-dna-times-cheaper-with-a-dna-laser-printer.html | 13:03 |
| kanzure | they are focusing on synthetic vagina yeast | 13:03 |
| kanzure | (we know them) | 13:04 |
| CaptHindsight | it depends on what you want to print | 13:04 |
| kanzure | ah i'm glad they are calling it "laser pulse catapulting" now... the physical motivation was originally quite vague from them. | 13:05 |
| CaptHindsight | nice to find this channel | 13:06 |
| kanzure | we do things | 13:06 |
| kanzure | whops s/motivation/motion | 13:06 |
| kanzure | *whoops | 13:06 |
| kanzure | typos everywhere :/ | 13:06 |
| CaptHindsight | #openlunchbox is where I started collecting everything open | 13:07 |
| CaptHindsight | http://openlunchbox.com/smf | 13:07 |
| kanzure | i want to eventually get to the point of designing a repeatalbe, rebuildable microfabrication setup | 13:07 |
| kanzure | e.g., in the sense that we can give someone a list of parts to order (or make), not just dumpster diving | 13:08 |
| kanzure | or rather, minimal or no dumpster diving | 13:08 |
| CaptHindsight | thats interesting | 13:08 |
| CaptHindsight | since i tend to lean the other way | 13:08 |
| kanzure | not everyone has the same distribution of garbage laying around | 13:08 |
| kanzure | you might have some ultra-rare expensive shit that you don't even realize is hard for others to get | 13:08 |
| CaptHindsight | teach people how to build machines vs set of plans | 13:09 |
| kanzure | having them build parts on their own is fine in my opinion, that does not count as dumpster diving | 13:09 |
| CaptHindsight | if you understand machine design you can do whatever you want | 13:09 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: also some of our projects are a little more speculative.... http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration/ | 13:09 |
| CaptHindsight | ebay, dumpster, diy etc | 13:10 |
| CaptHindsight | reminds me of scifi shorts I used to read | 13:10 |
| kanzure | well, yes, so that is why i try to emphasize the actually-building-stuff aspects | 13:11 |
| CaptHindsight | I can't imagine much actual info in #dlp printing | 13:12 |
| kanzure | i think they might be reading a little too much make magazine | 13:12 |
| kanzure | not sure | 13:13 |
| CaptHindsight | lots of fun stuff ahead in DNA synthesis | 13:14 |
| kanzure | here are some things that people have been doing with custom dna: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects/ | 13:15 |
| CaptHindsight | I'd like to start working on retrofitting viruses for cancer cures | 13:15 |
| kanzure | for tumors you can just use ultrasound to melt them http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/ | 13:16 |
| CaptHindsight | that's another treatment vs cure | 13:16 |
| kanzure | one possible cure would be to stop cells from replicating | 13:17 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.mayo.edu/research/departments-divisions/department-molecular-medicine/harnessing-viruses-treat-cancer | 13:17 |
| CaptHindsight | reprogram a virus to invade the cancer cells so the immune system takes care of it | 13:17 |
| kanzure | a bunch of people have been running around talking about retroviruses in "personal medicine" to target particular cancer lines sampled from a patient's body | 13:18 |
| kanzure | but that's not a cure either | 13:18 |
| CaptHindsight | been working | 13:18 |
| CaptHindsight | prevention would be the real cure | 13:18 |
| kanzure | oh wait yes it is, that counts as a cure, sorry, i was thinking of the other thing | 13:18 |
| kanzure | vaccines | 13:18 |
| CaptHindsight | that's why I like micro and nano machines | 13:19 |
| CaptHindsight | designer cells | 13:19 |
| kanzure | have you worked with cells before? | 13:21 |
| CaptHindsight | have to run but we can print lines down to ~45nm using photopolymers and cheap lasers | 13:21 |
| CaptHindsight | ~45nm line width and ~100nm space | 13:21 |
| CaptHindsight | yeah, tissue engineering | 13:22 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: if i send you money will you send me microfabricated things | 13:22 |
| CaptHindsight | and dna synthesis, mass production of synthetic currently | 13:22 |
| CaptHindsight | let me know what things you need | 13:22 |
| CaptHindsight | bbl | 13:23 |
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| chris_99 | I have an old Epson printer i'm planning on tearing appart for bits, has anyone ever used the pumps before? i'm wondering how hard it'll be to get 'em to work | 13:40 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: I'll let you know in a couple hours | 13:43 |
| chris_99 | heh cheers | 13:44 |
| CaptHindsight | haven't left yet, | 13:47 |
| CaptHindsight | the problem with the epson heads is they don't recirculate | 13:47 |
| CaptHindsight | so filter everything to 1um | 13:47 |
| CaptHindsight | if the particles tend to agglomerate >40um then use something else | 13:48 |
| CaptHindsight | the fluid viscosity should be around 4cP at 30C | 13:49 |
| CaptHindsight | the heads don't have heaters | 13:49 |
| CaptHindsight | the drive pulse for the epsons is up to ~180V | 13:49 |
| chris_99 | oh wow, i didn't know they needed that kind of voltage | 13:50 |
| chris_99 | this was to potentially play with a blue dye, which it probably is over kill for, but i'm sure i could find other uses for it, if i manage to get em working | 13:50 |
| CaptHindsight | since you are new to piezo inkjet either try to hack the driver board or look at the waveforms very closely | 13:50 |
| chris_99 | yeah, it sounds like i'd probably want to keep their driver | 13:51 |
| chris_99 | stuff | 13:51 |
| CaptHindsight | piezo drive waveforms are even patented | 13:51 |
| chris_99 | weird | 13:51 |
| CaptHindsight | since it all about creating the proper wave to push and agitate the fluids | 13:51 |
| CaptHindsight | but epson printers are cheap | 13:52 |
| CaptHindsight | so you can make mistakes | 13:52 |
| chris_99 | mmm, very cheap in comparison to some of the sites i've seen which sell piezo pumps | 13:52 |
| CaptHindsight | some of our heads cost us $7k ea | 13:52 |
| chris_99 | wow | 13:53 |
| CaptHindsight | the lowest cost industrial piezo heads are the Xaar | 13:53 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.xaar.com/en/products | 13:54 |
| chris_99 | how much do they cost roughly | 13:54 |
| CaptHindsight | the 128's from China are under $300 | 13:55 |
| CaptHindsight | or ebay | 13:55 |
| CaptHindsight | what size drops do you need? | 13:55 |
| chris_99 | interesting, although you can get an epson printer for £30 | 13:55 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.benjercorp.com/print-heads/xaar-print-head-128-200-purple-insulator/?gclid=COXA4eimtcQCFYY9aQod8yYAEA | 13:56 |
| CaptHindsight | the epsons support grey scale | 13:56 |
| chris_99 | no idea tbh, i was wondering if i could use it to get the blue dye into a microfluidic chip to dye yeast, although, that could be silly and maybe i should just use a peristaltic pump | 13:56 |
| CaptHindsight | you create several pulses in on pulse time and the drops converge into one during flight | 13:57 |
| CaptHindsight | what dia are the channels? | 13:57 |
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| CaptHindsight | the dia of the epson nozzles are ~75um | 14:01 |
| CaptHindsight | ~5khz and 4-40something pL drops | 14:01 |
| chris_99 | sorry, apparently it's two chips 160um deep & 50um deep | 14:03 |
| chris_99 | one thing i was wondering do inkjets only work when pointing downwards | 14:04 |
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| heath | https://benanne.github.io/2015/03/17/plankton.html :: Classifying plankton with deep neural networks | 14:27 |
| heath | .title http://videolectures.net/mlpmsummerschool2014_varoquaux_brain_imaging/ | 14:27 |
| yoleaux | Machine learning for brain imaging - VideoLectures.NET | 14:27 |
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| heath | fenn, delinquentme: i'm nearby but a bit busy | 14:32 |
| heath | Friday night or Saturday might be a nice day to hang out | 14:33 |
| heath | ugh, artx.com was registered a few days ago :| | 14:38 |
| heath | i hate it that registrars hold the domain for an unknown period of time | 14:39 |
| heath | ..after the domain has expired | 14:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/why-is-there-no-generic-insulin | 14:57 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, why dont we make insulin ? | 15:03 |
| kanzure | fda | 15:04 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/events/developing-industrial-control-systems-which-meet-security-and-regulatory-requirements | 15:15 |
| yoleaux | Developing Industrial Control Systems which meet Security and Regulatory Requirements - Mentor Graphics | 15:15 |
| archels | I like the bait-and-switch there | 15:16 |
| archels | "meet security requirements" instead of "being secure" | 15:16 |
| nmz787_i | ostensibly those requirements follow the besk-know-practices to 'be secure'... but it seems like it's also dealing with legal responsibility too... which I guess is a type of security if your business is at stake | 15:25 |
| chris_99 | nmz787_i, you played with the esp8266 | 15:26 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: not yet, but I've been wanting to for a few months now | 15:27 |
| Daeken | security in industrial control. hah. | 15:28 |
| chris_99 | i've gotta a bunch of them but i need to get round to using them, not sure exactly what for yet | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: saw the hackaday overview of it yesterday, was more impressed than I originally was after learning how few components it requires and that it runs at 80MHz | 15:28 |
| chris_99 | yeah i bought some 3.3V FTDI thing to program it | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | I was thinking a home HVAC control system might be fun to do | 15:28 |
| chris_99 | i've got 10 to play with, maybe i could track my dog with it heh | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | dog-wardriving | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | wardogging | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | haha | 15:31 |
| nmz787_i | dog-in-the-middle attacks | 15:31 |
| nmz787_i | or doge | 15:31 |
| chris_99 | you might find http://www.reddit.com/r/nicechips/ interesting | 15:34 |
| nmz787_i | yeah pretty cool, don't explore reddit enough I guess | 15:36 |
| chris_99 | hmm i've got a bunch of 1-wire temp probes, maybe i could stick them on the esp's, and set a thermostat of 'em | 15:37 |
| nmz787_i | the 1.6mm x 2.0mm 42 MHz ARM processor for under $2 is pretty cool | 15:40 |
| chris_99 | yeah that sounded cool | 15:40 |
| * nmz787_i wants processor earrings | 15:41 | |
| chris_99 | i was thinking could you put it in a pil capsule | 15:41 |
| chris_99 | dunno what for though | 15:41 |
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| chris_99 | i like the chip scale atomic clocks, but they're not exactly cheap | 15:42 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: it depends on the design of the printhead, most will print from down to +/- 90 deg of down | 15:45 |
| chris_99 | oh interesting | 15:45 |
| chris_99 | i just had a silly idea | 15:45 |
| chris_99 | to print with it on a wall | 15:45 |
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| CaptHindsight | chris_99: also l and _ at 90 deg from down | 15:49 |
| CaptHindsight | but then the lower nozzles have more pressure than the upper nozzles so you have to adjust the wavefrom to fire harder at the bottom than at the top | 15:50 |
| chris_99 | lower/upper nozzles? | 15:51 |
| CaptHindsight | say they are 90 deg from pointing down but arranged I | 15:53 |
| CaptHindsight | vs ------ | 15:53 |
| chris_99 | oh sorry gotcha | 15:53 |
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| nmz787_i | http://carbon3d.com/ | 16:07 |
| nmz787_i | supposedly faster SLA | 16:07 |
| CaptHindsight | compared to 3d systems and envisiontec yeah, they are about as slow as the diy printers | 16:09 |
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| kanzure | "Just 2,000 babies have been born from cryogenically frozen eggs in the world" | 16:19 |
| kanzure | that's all? what the hell | 16:19 |
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| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: you're saying DIY printers are faster than those from 3Dsystems? | 16:27 |
| nmz787_i | you seem to be saying 3Dsystems < carbon3D <= DIY | 16:28 |
| nmz787_i | or maybe 3Dsystems < DIY <= carbon3D | 16:28 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure -agi | 16:43 |
| delinquentme | gchat | 16:43 |
| delinquentme | KANZURAGI | 16:48 |
| kanzure | huh? | 16:54 |
| * maaku summons KANZURAGI | 16:55 | |
| kanzure | who has disturbed me | 16:58 |
| CaptHindsight | nmz787: the carbon3d is nothing new, oxygen inhibition is well understood and oxygen permeable high Tg membranes have been around for a while | 17:05 |
| CaptHindsight | what appears to be new in their patent is the use of a $1K/g ptfe polymer film for the bottom of their vat | 17:07 |
| CaptHindsight | envisiontec and 3d systems aren't concerned with speed or materials suitable for finished products | 17:10 |
| CaptHindsight | sadly the diyers only seem to be interested in making a $ or just getting a printed trinket | 17:10 |
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| Lemminkainen | paperbot http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141209/ncomms6747/full/ncomms6747.html | 19:57 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fncomms6747 | 19:57 |
| Lemminkainen | :( no prosthetic foreskins tonight, guys | 19:58 |
| kanzure | welcome back | 19:59 |
| Lemminkainen | how've you been kanzure ? | 20:04 |
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| kanzure | oh, you know, stuff | 20:23 |
| Lemminkainen | well, I hope it's been good stuff | 20:31 |
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| kanzure | you? | 20:34 |
| Lemminkainen | I think we're finally settled on first therapeutic targets, so that's progress | 20:38 |
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| Lemminkainen | I'll know more about the efficacy of our approach here in a few weeks | 20:39 |
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| andytoshi | kanzure: so, i'm not sure if maaku and greg will agree, but my verdict is you were right to avoid reading eliezer's harry potter fanfic | 21:08 |
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| andytoshi | he didn't reveal the mechanisms behind magic that he seemed like he was going to in the first 30 or so chapters | 21:08 |
| kanzure | once again my lazy conclusions about eliezer have paid off | 21:09 |
| andytoshi | and harry being an even more assinine version of eli was never punished ... AND when people complained about this eliezer said that they were just discriminating against harry because he was 11 | 21:09 |
| kanzure | nobody cares if the character is 11 | 21:09 |
| kanzure | i have been trying to formulate a rock-solid thesis against eliezer for many years now, but i haven't actually improved the document since 2008 | 21:11 |
| kanzure | see pm | 21:11 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Mar 20 00:00:27 2015 | ||
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